I understand why some people dislike Donald Trump. He certainly says intemperate things, appears to have no deeply intelligent governing philosophy and is at the extreme end of the narcissist spectrum. That said, the media/punditry meltdown over his alleged "ambiguous" "inadequate" statement in the immediate aftermath of a crazed rightwing extremist 20 year old running over a bunch of lefty radicals on Saturday in Charlottesville has taken this country beyond satire. We are on the brink of something very dangerous.
Here was Trump's initial statement:
“We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry, and violence on many sides — on many sides,”
When I heard this on Saturday I was still waiting for news about who was responsible for the so-called attack. I thought this was a very reasonable, responsible comment from Trump. Unlike Barack Obama, who frequently jumped to incorrect conclusions (condemning police in Cambridge, Massachusetts, for instance), Trump was very clear about condemning hatred, bigotry and violence.
Then ensuing firestorm of faux outraged, especially from despicable pols like Mitt Romney, John Kasich and Marco Rubio, forced me to go back and listen again to what Trump said. Trump was (and is) being accused of embracing the KKK and neo-Nazis. What the hell?
Various other Republican senators also criticized Trump, including Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), second ranking Senate Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah) and Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.).
I have one phrase fro these Republican hypocrites–Go Have Sexual Congress with yourself. I challenge anyone to provide me with a statement, written or verbal, where Donald Trump embraces racism, anti-semitism or radical right ideology. Just one damn quote. I dare you.
We can point to several failure on the part of Trump's communications team over the last eight months, but I can empathize with their confusion over the claims that Trump was going soft on extremism. On Monday Trump made and even stronger statement:
"Racism is evil," the president said, "and anyone who causes violence in its name are criminals and thugs, including the KKK, neo-Nazis, white supremacists and other hate groups that are repugnant to everything we hold dear as Americans."
Still not good enough for those bent on destroying Donald Trump. When I hear so-called political and business leaders describe this as "an ambiguous" statement I then realize that this is not a fair game. This is political propaganda at its worst. But it ain't the President who is doing the propaganda. The media and political and business elite have banded together to push a lie.
But that is not all. Creeping out of the sewers are the radical ideologues keen on eradicating any vestige of American history. These are rebels keen on reinventing the past. The calls to erase all statues associated with anyone who fought for the Confederacy or was a slave owner has gone beyond the absurd. We now are confronting a rabble possessed of a mindset akin to the blood lust of the Khmer Rouge of Cambodia and the fanaticism of ISIS jihadis, who destroyed ancient historical monuments because they claimed those pieces of stone were idols. These are radicals convinced in their truth and their vision who are willing to do whatever it takes to promote their twisted vision of perfection.
These crazies, I believe, are overplaying their hand. Enough Americans understand and grasp how bizarre and unfair their rantings are and will in turn start pushing back. There is a danger here, however. The Americans being labeled as racists are more likely to own guns than those lefty cretins who arrogantly insist that Trump supporters are in-bred morons. That is a recipe for real conflict and is the kind of tension that triggered the Civil War of 1860.
Important to remember, however, that the crazed kid mowing down lefties on Saturday was not an organized effort. Just compare the lethality achieved today in Barcelona, Spain by a committed jihadi. He left at least 13 dead and more than a 100 wounded. The right wing nut in Charlottesville only killed one and his effort was not part of an organized plan to wreak mayhem.
There may be a silver lining in all of this for Donald Trump. He now will have no illusion about who his enemies are. They have jumped out of the closet and revealed themselves. This information in the hands of a Machiavellian ruler would be potent. Remains to be seen if Donald Trump actually knows how to play such a game or is just a pretender.
No one is more effective at destroying Trump’s Presidency than Trump himself. Unforced errors abound.
On a guess I had a look at popular Teeshirts marketed by the Smithsonian:
http://www.cafepress.com/smithsonian/7586713
When the statuary in public spaces are cleansed from view, no doubt campaigners will arrange for the removal of Classical artefacts from museums and art galleries together with offensive teeshirts?
Laura, Your comment really adds nothing to the discussion. More like this and I will delete. Being banal and trite is not something you should continue to aspire to achieve.
In this instance Trump did nothing wrong and only spoke the truth. When telling the truth becomes a liability we are in serious trouble.
PT has nailed this exactly, the anti Trump faction is totally out of control.
PT –
Laura has a point. The president should avoid the press and keep his tweets focused on re-energizing the industrial base of this country.
Why does he keep feeding the media/punditry?
Trump on Tuesday: You had some very bad people in that group. But you also had people that were very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group, excuse me, excuse me, I saw the same pictures as you did. You had people in that group that were there to protest the taking down of, to them, a very, very important statue and the renaming of a park, from Robert E. Lee to another name. is the statement that got POTUS into trouble. You also have lots and lots of accretion of context going back to his campaign, some of his tweets, and to the stamp of Bannon
I know of no call by anybody to remove all statues of the slaveholders. Please edify.
Is Trump a racist? Most have an opinion. I will say that Trump’s birtherism would be very hard to interpret as being something other than racism–unless there ever was rationally supportable doubt about where Obama was born. I have been well aware of Trump’s biography since the late eighties, yet it was the birtherism that certified what to me has long been his obvious racism.
PT, we would, here, have to agree to disagree.
“at the extreme end of the narcissist spectrum” is charitable. He seems to me to have a Cluster B personality disorder with a focal malignant narcissism, with clinically significant antisocial, sociopathic, and paranoid elements.
I agree with you, Publius Tacitus. And I especially appreciate your tone.
The media, and political elite, pile on is precisely what I expect. The chattering political classes have converged on the belief that Trump is not only incompetent, but dangerous. And his few allies are increasingly uncertain of their future.
The thrust appears to be to undercut components of his base while ratcheting up indignation. WaPo and the Times dribble out salacious “news” stories that, often as not, are substance free but written in a hyperbolic style that assumes a kind of intrinsic Trump guilt and leaps from there. They know better. No doubt they rationalize this as meeting kind with kind. Trump is the epitome of the salesman that believes he can sell anything to anyone with the right pitch. Reporters that might normally be restrained by actual facts and a degree of fairness simply are no longer so constrained.
It reminds me of the coverage in the run up to Nixon’s resignation. Except this one’s on steroids.
I believe the DC folks fully expect Trump to be removed and now are focusing on the strategy that accrues the maximum benefit to their party. Unfortunately, things strongly favor the Democrats.
Democrats want to drag this out as long as possible and enjoy the chipping away at segments of the Republican base while the Republicans want to clear the path before the midterms. However, the Republican officials, much as many or most can’t stand Trump, have to weave a thin line because taking action against Trump would kill them in the primaries and possibly in the general.
So the Democrats are licking their chops and hoping this can continue until the midterms with the expectation they will then control Congress. After that they will happily dispatch Trump with some discovered impeachable crime. At that point it won’t be hard to get enough Republicans to go along.
The Republicans can only hope to convince Trump to resign well prior to the midterms. They hope they won’t have to go on record with a vote and get nailed in the elections.
In the meantime the country is going to go through hell.
Goodness what histrionics. Trump is undoing what leadership the presidency is capable of. He’s opening up a vacuum for other countries and private entities to fill. His lack of integrity in thought and speech doesn’t hide his basic values and motivations which are all about what’s good for Trump. He has no sense of community or the common good.
The “media” arent playing a game that leaves poor Donald at an unfair disadvantage. Poor Donald is in a job he is totally unfit for. It’s no game.
What upset a lot of people was Trump’s “both sides” argument. Many people, including me, do not think anything equates Nazis or Klansmen when it comes to what they seek to do to the nation. They came to Charlottesville to do harm. They came armed and were looking for a fight.
And, oh, how we clutched our cheeks when the Taliban and ISIS destroyed priceless and ancient public statuary and museum items, crying why oh why, how could they be so savage and uncivilized. How could they wipe out thousands of years of ancient artifacts detailing our history?
For all the talk at the time of the savagery and crassness (”He writes romance novels, oh gawd.”) of Saddam Hussein, he understood waves of mass hysteria (which is what we’re experiencing now). By the fall of 2002, Hussein had removed the most priceless items from his country’s museums to the basement of the British Museum and had wisely asked the British Museum to replace them with copies that no one knew about at the time. I read a detailed account of it in a British paper a couple of years later. It is my understanding, unsubstantiated, that these priceless artifacts still remain in London, protected.
From abroad it really looks as if things have gone off the rails in the US. It just keeps getting more and more surreal!
One wonders how much more delirium before the abyss
kerim
Yes, we are staring into the depths and the abyss has begun to take note of us. BTW the US was put back together after the CW/WBS on the basis of an understanding that the Confederates would accept the situation and the North would not interfere with their cultural rituals. There was a general amnesty for former Confederates in the 1870s and a number of them became US senators, Consuls General overseas and state governors. That period of attempted reconciliation has now ended. Who can imagine the “Gone With the Win” Pulitzer and Best Picture of the Year now? pl
Some of you still don’t get it.
Trump isnt our last chance. Its your last chance. Yet still so many of you oxygen thieves still insist RUSSIA is the reason Hillary lost.
You guys are going to agitate your way into a CW because you can’t accept you lost. Many of you agitating are fat, slow, and stupid, with no idea how to survive.
Because he needs the attention. His tweets have the same leverage on economic trends that moving flag banners have on network news. It’s something to keep your attention focused in one place.
US was put back together after the CW/WBS on the basis of an understanding that the Confederates would accept the situation and the North would not interfere with their cultural rituals.
Colonel, what “cultural rituals” are you referring to?
I totally disagree with you LeeG. From day one after the unexpected (for the punditry class and their media coherts) elections results everybody was piling on Trump. The stories abound about his Russia Collusion (after one year of investigation not even a smoke signal)or his narcistic attitudes (mind you LeeG Trump always addresses people as We where as Humble Obama always addresses in the first person). I get this feeling the Swamp doesn’t want a President who will at least try to do something for the American people rather than promiss (Remember Hope and Change ala Obama, he got the Change quite a bit of it for him and his Banker Pals from what is left of the treasury and we the people are left with Hope). I hope he will succeed but I learnt that we will always be left with Hope!
Hi Lars do you know that the Alt-Left was also armed and to top it all didn’t even bother to get a permit. By the way I am no supporter of Nazis and I really believe they don’t have a chance to power in a diverse country like ours.
According to Shep Smith, Fox News was unable to find the very fine people demonstrating with the white supremacists in Charlottesville.
What Charlottsville could of been…….as the Wackos marched down the streets heading to their rally in full armament the concerned citizens could have turned their backs to the Wackos as a mechanism of shunning the invader as they whimpered in to their rally and eventually would of have left. That did not occur. What did was a blot on our history that should not be allowed to continue but unfortunately it will thus I suggest to the next city that is visited Shun the invaders……the Wackos (KKK, Neo Nazi’s and their ilk) but also Shun the Antifa, BLM and others who deny others their public rights. To me the Wackos are understandable as they have been around awhile with their Hatred and Vileness but the others who manifest with different names like chameleons are our biggest concern for the future. Hopefully our law enforcement has taken notice and puts a stop to this quickly. Also hopefully our LEO’s find newer tactics than abandonment of the their citizens.
For the record the individual with the car belongs in jail for life.
Today I sadly see a bust of Abraham Lincoln has been desecrated in the great State of Illinois. Whatever happens I hope that State gets some funds to educate their people properly.
As to Donald you have a long road to hoe, keep at it with your chin up high, you were right but get some diplomatic skills quickly.
All the Best
This is part of the larger problem. When a population is looking for moral leadership from a politician–ANY politician–that polity is in trouble.
Dr. Puck,
The calls have begun:
https://www.rt.com/usa/399834-chicago-pastor-president-parks-renamed/
https://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/nb/kristine-marsh/2017/08/17/cnns-rye-calls-washington-jefferson-monuments-come-down
https://twitter.com/ajamubaraka/status/897890816366137344?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.rt.com%2Fusa%2F399834-chicago-pastor-president-parks-renamed%2F
That last tweet is from the Green Party candidate for VP. Those are just a few examples from a quick google search before I get back to work. Those of you with more disposable time will surely find more.
Great piece, PT. Please keep ’em coming.
I think your tone is exactly appropriate.
The same can be said about the Antifa: “They came to Charottesville to do harm. They came armed and were looking for a fight.”
That is the important point that Trump made.
Someone on the last thread said in a very elegant way that what binds us Americans together is one thing, economic opportunity for all. I believe that was Trump’s election platform, with the “for all” emphasized frequently.
I believe Charlottsville was a staged catalyst to bring about Trump’s downfall, there seems now to be a “full-court press” against him. If he survives this latest attempt, I’ll be both surprised and in awe of his political skills. If he doesn’t survive I’ll (and many others, no matter the “legality of the process”) will consider it a coup d’etat and start to think of a different way to prepare for the future.
There is quite the precedent for the media treating trump as they do, Putin has been treated quite similiarly, as well as any other politician the media cars disagree with.
I think, during the election campaign, the negative media coverage may have well be a boon to him. Anyone who listened to the media, and then actually turned up at a Trump rally to see for himself, immidiatly got the idea that the media is full of shit. I think this won trump a fair number of converts.
But I think by now they are just over the top.
It almost reminds me of Soviet denounciations of old communists who have fallen out of favor.
As far as statue removal goes: There should be legal ways of deciding such things democratically. There should also be the possiblity of relocating the statues in question. I imagine that there should be plenty of private properties who are willing to host these statues on their land.
This should be quite soundly protected by the US constitution.
That these monuments got, iirc, erected long after the war is nothing unusual. Same is true for monuments to the white army, of which there are now a couple in Russia.
As far as the civil war goes, my sympathies lie with the Union, I would not be, more then a 100 years after the war, be aversed to monuments depicting the common Confederate Soldier.
I can understand the statue toppler somewhat. If someone would place a Bandera statue in my surroundings, I would try to wreck it. I may be willing to tolerate a Petljura statue, probably a also Wrangel or Denikin statue but not a Vlassov or Shuskevich statue.
Imho Lees “wickedness”, historically speaking, simply isnt anything extraordinary.
I read today Nancy Pelosi was suggesting the removal of confederate statues from the Capitol.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2017/08/17/house-minority-leader-nancy-pelosi-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-statues-capitol/576498001/
Dr. Puck,
Also, to the charge of Donald Trump’s racism, I can’t claim to know what the man thinks behind closed doors, but as PT argues, there are no public pronouncements that I know of that confirm this tendency in him.
While they may confirm a certain lack of propriety, tact or decorum, the Obama birther claims you mention do not explicitly confirm racism to me, as these claims could potentially be made against any candidate for President to whose policies and ideology one might be opposed. While it was possibly a component (though we don’t know for sure), Obama’s race was not a clear and necessary component of the birther claims made by Trump, as I see it. (For the record, I have never voted Republican in my life even down ticket, but I’ve twice voted for Obama, for Al Gore, and this time around for Gary Johnson.)
What I have seen are numerous pictures and articles from years back outlining the great deal of collaboration Trump has participated in with the likes of none other than Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton on various diversity campaigns. Seriously, do a Google Image search of “Donald Trump, Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton.” Your head might explode. You can dispute the authenticity of these images, but the watermarks bearing “Getty Images” seem like pretty hard evidence of their veracity. If Trump really is a racist, then his street cred among his racist hordes is in serious jeopardy if those pictures and articles ever get out. And if he only became a racist recently, that’s a pretty abrupt ideological turn for a septuagenarian to make.
I’m willing to believe claims backed by hard evidence, including that Donald Trump is a possible racist, but when you stack up the hard evidence on that one (there isn’t any), all you’re left with is conjecture. And if conjecture is what flies for evidence these days, I’d suggest anyone facing a baseless accusation of racism should simply rebut his accuser with charges of pederasty and child molestation. I’d take a baseless charge of racism any day over being called a child molester. But then again, I’m sure the social justice left have plans to “normalize” that abominable, cursed behavior in the near future anyway as just another “lifestyle choice”.
Sh*t! Why not ban Lynard Skynard albums too?
Col., thank you for this comment. I grew up in the “North” and recall the centenary of the Civil War as featured in _Life_ magazine. I was fascinated by the history, the uniforms and the composition of the various armies as well as their arms. I would add to that the devastating use of grapeshot. I knew the biographies of the various generals on both sides and their relative effectiveness. I would urge others to read Faulkner’s _Intruder in the Dust_ to gain some understanding of the Reconstruction and carpetbagging.
I believe the choice to remove the monument as opposed to some other measure, such as the bit of history you offer, was highly incendiary. I also find it interesting that the ACLU is taking up their case in regard to free-speech: http://tinyurl.com/ybdkrcaz
I was living in Chicago when the Skokie protest occurred.
What evidence do you have that they intended harm?
From what I can tell, they were looking for publicity. That explains the very provocative tiki torch walk on the UVA Grounds.
“Feeding the media”? Well, wasn’t the media demanding to know his thoughts on the subject? Do you really think they would just let him talk about re-industrialization and decline to comment on Charlottesville? I’m sorry, Gene, but that strikes me as kind of naïve. The MSM have been deliberately provoking and attacking Trump since he first announced for the presidency in 2015.
Lars,
“They came to Charlottesville to do harm. They came armed and were looking for a fight.”
I agree. This means Governor McAuliffe failed in his duty to the people of the Commonwealth and so did the Mayor of Charlottesville and the senior members of the police forces present in the city. Congradulations to the alt-left.
They – the left – previously came to DC to do harm – on flag day no less. Namely the Bernie Bro James Hodgkinson, domestic terrorist, who attempted to assasinate Steve Scalise and a number of other elected representatives. The left did not denounce him nor his cause. Sadly they did not even denounce the people who actually betrayed him – those who rigged the Democratic primary: Donna Brazile and Debbie Wasserman-Schultz.
“I know of no call by anybody to remove all statues of the slaveholders. Please edify.”
Well, it appears that Al Sharpton is now in favor of defunding the Jefferson Memorial. That’s close, isn’t it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gg4XKIX1bs4&feature=youtu.be&t=5
Col Lang, Bill, et al
Re ” will consider it a coup d’etat and start to think of a different way to prepare for the future.”
Somebody, I think it was on SST, had some suggestions for future preparations-
“stay in shape, tighten your shot groups, learn to put on a tourniquet
one handed”.
I have “eaten out on that” for some time. but then many of my dinner
companions are a bit like that anyway.
I oppose tearing down statues of Robert E. Lee and his officers
and men. I oppose it sufficiently that I support those who resist
it even if I have to support people who I wouldn’t think of associating
with socially.I told someone that and they said I risked ending up like
the “German generals”. I said “Hope it doesn’t turn out like that”.
Nightsticker
USMC 65-72
FBI 72-96
Please see my reply to ‘Dr. Puck’ above. The situation is escalating quickly.
Well said Tyler. I totally agree.
Last night I was trying to explain this concept to my drama queen/liberal sister and she doesn’t get it. I think people have lost their minds. MSM has brainwashed people for so long that they don’t know any better. Leftists and progressive people are being goaded into starting a civil that they cannot possibly win.
I told my sister that her side wouldn’t survive a civil war more than a month. You can’t fight a war with bunch of trannies, gay men, overweight feminist, low testosterone computer geeks and other random 3rd worlders who have very little loyalty to you.
These idiots don’t understand that they are playing with fire.
I have a question for Col. Lang: I once read that, back when the Klan was a big deal, several states — including at least a few southern states — passed so-called ‘anti-masking’ laws to inhibit their illegal activities. So:
Question #1: Was the Commonwealth of Virginia one of those states?
Question #2: If so, could the state have arrested the ‘anti-fa’ marauders last week?
Thank you!
Hold onto your hats. Nancy Pelosi has just demanded the removal of all Confederate statues from the Capitol.
Yes of course. Tolerance.
PT
The one clear thing is that there is a coup attempt to get rid of Donald Trump led by globalist media and supra-national corporate intelligence agents. Charlottesville may well be due to the total incompetence of the democratic governor and mayor. On the other hand, the razing of Confederate Memorials started in democrat controlled New Orleans and immediately spread to Baltimore. This is purposeful like blaming Russia for losing the 2016 election. The protestors on both divides were organized and spoiling for a fight. The unrest here at home is due to the forever wars, outsourcing jobs, tax cuts for the wealthy and austerity. Under stress societies revert to their old beliefs and myths. John Brennon, Lindsey Graham, John McCain, George Soros and Pierre Omidyar are scorpions; they can’t help themselves. After regime change was forced on Iraq, Libya, Syria and Ukraine; a color revolution has been ignited here in the USA; damn the consequences. We are the only ones that can stop it by pointing out what is really happening.
Seamus Padraig
Virginia may be such a state but the law does not matter. IMO McAuliffe would never have allowed their unmasking. IMO he has further use in mind for them. pl
Tyler, Tyler, Tyler, the election is long over. Two Scoops is king. Revel in his glory.
There will always be an outrage du jour for the NeverTrumpers. The Jake Tapper, Rachel Maddow, Morning Joe & Mika ain’t gonna quit. And it seems it’s ratings gold for them. Of course McCain and his office wife and the rest of the establishment crew also have to come out to ring the obligatory bell and say how awful Trump’s tweet was.
What I see in my Democrat dominated county is that the blue collar folks are noting this overt coup attempt and while they didn’t vote for Trump are beginning to become sympathetic towards him. I sense this is in part due to the massive mistrust of the MSM and the political establishment who are viewed as completely self-serving.
Indeed, the press plays Trump. It even plays dirty with Trump. I just think Trump needs to be much more cautious and circumspect with what he says. It is just reality that the press filters what pols say: emphasize some things, de-emphasize other things and create narratives.
Trump sounds upset and frustrated when playing this game. He might as well be throwing chum in the pool when he acts like that.
It is illegal in the Commonwealth of Virginia to wear a mask that covers one’s face in most public settings.
LEOs in Central Va encountered this exact requirement when a man in a motorcycle helmet entered a Walmart on Rt 29 in 2012. Several customers reported him to 911 because they believed him to being acting suspiciously. He was detained in Albemarle County and was eventually submitted for mental health evaluation.
This is not a law that Charlottesville police would be unfamiliar with.
Yes, I concur to that diagnostic (observing from the French media clamours)
Should we expect all Libraries in US to be expurged of William Faulkner books ?
an autodafe or just thrown in the ”poubelles ”?
Chomsky:
“As for Antifa, it’s a minuscule fringe of the Left, just as its predecessors were. “It’s a major gift to the Right, including the militant Right, who are exuberant.”…
“what they do is often wrong in principle – like blocking talks – and [the movement] is generally self-destructive.”
“When confrontation shifts to the arena of violence, it’s the toughest and most brutal who win – and we know who that is. That’s quite apart from the opportunity costs – the loss of the opportunity for education, organizing, and serious and constructive activism.”
With respect, PT, censoring Laura’s comment because she rightly points out, with a symmetry closely mirroring Pres. Trump’s inclusion of “many sides”, is bias on your part. As we have all seen, despite the many times Trump hit the head of the nail, the fact that he can do no good in the eyes of the empire speaks to a greater force than a bunch of crazies. Trump made a fatal lack of distinction between the death of that young woman and the otherwise protest/counter-protest melee that, at worst, might have ended in a few scrapes and bruises. More than an unforced error, he surrendered bow and quiver to his detractors. Look at what is happening with the corporate light from his administration, for starters. Then consider the major social media enterprises giving themselves license to shut down right-wing accounts. For those of us who voted against HRC, now how comfortable are we that we are lumped into the same sausage as the young man who killed and maimed in Charlottesville, Nazis, and White Supremacy fanatics? A weaponized insurgency of weak minds is the realm of ISIS and Al Qaeda. Delete if you like, but if you open your discussion and censor out any post that does not fit your personal theme, then consider closing comments altogether.
Frankly, your post makes an excellent point condemning reactive hysteria, as well as framing the anti-Trump movement in the correct light as a revolt of the elite corpogeoisie, but please be willing to balance your editorial power.
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/democrats-move-to-strip-military-bases-of-confederate-names/article/2631896
Basically Donald Trump will be President for as long as he decides.
From the outside it looks like the next person to be banished from american history will be George Washington. Followed by Gen. Custer, Gen Sheridan closely.
In these times one cannot wonder enough about actuality of the historical poster:
+Business as usual. America open your eyes!+
But this time it is not the german national socialists.
Laura has no significant point. She failed to point out a single thing he did “wrong” in this incident. I have zero patience with shallow sloganeering. Contribute to the discussion. She did not in my view. That’s why I pointed out my chagrin.
Stumpy, Don’t be a dummy. I have not “censored” Laura’s comment. She made it and I responded by saying I thought it was a useless bit of shallow emotion. No thought went into her comment. In fact, she did not point out a single statement that Trump made that could have buttressed her notion that this was a self-inflicted wound. Trump did not do a wrong thing in this entire episode. The attacks on him are wrong and unfair.
Oh yes and one more thing.
The “”pesky rooshians”” again. In Syria.
https://forum.htka.hu/threads/biztpol-sz%C3%ADriai-helyzet.396/page-2588#post-360518
Note the flag.
You want to start a civil war??
I read a transcript of the entirety of Trump’s news conference upon which CBS and others are basing their claims that Trump is “defending white supremacists,” and at no point did he come within hand grenade distance of doing anything of the sort. What he did do is accuse the left wing group of being at fault along with the right wing group in causing the violence, and he did not even claim that they were equally at fault.
There is no doubt whatever that his statement was entirely accurate, if in no other respect in that the left’s decision to engage in proximate confrontation was certain to cause violence and was, in fact, designed to do so regardless of who threw the first punch. CBS and other media of its caliber are completely avoiding mentioning that aspect of the confrontation.
CBS et. al. have been touting the left’s possession of not one but two permits for public assembly, but they carefully do not point out that the permits were for two areas well removed from the area where the conflict occurred, and that they did not have a permit to assemble in that area. A pundit on CBS claimed that “if they went” to the park in question, which of course they did, “they would not have been arrested because it was a public park.” He failed to mention that large groups still are required to have a permit to assemble in a public park.
The media is flailing with the horror of Trump’s advocacy of racial division, but it is the Democratic Party which has for more than a decade pursued the policy of “identity politics,” and the media which has prated endlessly about “who will get the black vote” or “how Hispanics will vote” in every election.
Lars,
You should also delve into the Marxist/Communist ideology underpinning the radical left, including and especially the SJWs:
https://www.rt.com/usa/399978-activists-charged-durham-confederate-statue/
“The first arrest made in the case was Takiyah Thompson, 22, who was taken into custody on Tuesday… Thompson, a member of the Workers World Party and a student at North Carolina Central University, had a court hearing on Wednesday. Thompson said she was the one who tied a rope around the neck of the statue so others could pull it down.”
If you think this is an isolated anomaly among their set, you’re sorely mistaken. I could write more in depth about the obvious links between SJW ideology and that of Marxism and its post-modern apologists, right down to their linguistic memes, but you can do that research yourself. And if you think you can somehow explain away Marxism as a benign worldview relative to National Socialism, 100 million dead bodies over the course of the 20th century is pretty solid proof to the contrary. If you stand behind a hammer and sickle, you might as well be standing behind a swastika. Your beliefs are that reprehensible.
In the case of the neo-Nazi knuckle-draggers, give the devil his due. At least they have the balls to stand behind what they really believe, rather than hiding behind and exploiting arbitrarily and ever more narrowly defined identity groups and using their plights, real or imagined, as a vehicle for the nihilistic dismantling of the only structures keeping this whole scene remotely intact and functioning. If you think today’s progressive, SJW Left doesn’t possess the seeds for and desire for social destruction, you are not paying attention.
I think it is time to bring back the draft…
To be fair there has been a similar big, long, tedious hissy fit in Britain by the same sorts of people over the fact Britain voted to leave the EU and, to a lesser extent, that Jeremy Corbyn was elected Labour leader. Last I checked we are still leaving the EU, Corbyn is still Labour leader and Trump is still President.
Lars, but they came with a legal permit to protest and knew what they would be facing. The anti-protestors including ANTIFA had a large number of people being paid to be there and funded by Soros and were there illegally. The same mechanisms were in place to ramp up protests like in Ferguson which were violent and this response was no different. However, the Virginia Governor a crony of the Clintons, ordered a police stand down and no effort was made to separate the groups. I remind you also that open carry is legal in Virginia. So, IMHO this was deliberately set up for a lethal confrontation by the people on the left. I will also remind you that the American Nazi Party and the American Communist Party among others, are perfectly legal in the US as is the KKK. Believing and saying what you want, no matter how offensive, is legal under the First Amendment. Actively discriminating against someone is not legal but speech is. Say what you want but that is the Constitution.
Richardstevenshack,
Your last paragraph is a suitably Leftist post-modern ideological oversimplification of an infinitely complex phenomenon. It also reveals a great deal of what motivates the SJW Left:
“As for the notion that this is a ‘cultural issue’, I quote: ‘Whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver.’ ‘Culture’ is the means by which some people oppress others. It’s much like ‘civilization’ or ‘ethics’ or ‘morality’ – a tool to beat people over the head who have something you want.”
First, it is a cultural issue. It’s an issue between people who accept this culture as a necessary but flawed, yet incrementally improvable structure for carrying out a relatively peaceful existence among one another, and those whose grudging, bitter misanthropy has led them to the conclusion that the whole thing isn’t fair (i.e. easy) so fuck it, burn it all down. In no uncertain terms, this is the ethos driving the radical Left.
Second, I don’t know exactly which culture created you, but I’m fairly sure it was a western liberal democracy, as I’m fairly certain is the case with almost all Leftists these days, regardless of how radical. And I’m also fairly certain the culture you decry is the western liberal democratic culture in its current iterations. But before you or anyone else lights the fuse on that, remember that the very culture you want to burn down because it’s so loathsome, that’s the thing that gave you that shiny device you use to connect with the world, it’s the thing that taught you how to articulate your thoughts into written and spoken word, so that you could then go out and bitch about it, and it even lets you bitch about it, freely and with no consequences. This “civilization” is the thing that gives rise to the “morals” and “ethics” that allow you to take your shiny gadgets to a coffee shop, where the barista makes your favorite beverage, instead of simply smashing you over the head and taking your shiny gadgets because he wants them. These principles didn’t arise out of thin air, and neither did you, me, or anyone else. This culture is an agreed-upon game that most of us play to ensure we stand a chance at getting though this with as little suffering as possible. It’s not perfect, but it works better than anything else I’ve seen in history.
Not as significant but along a similar trend to re-write history is this pastor asking Chicago mayor Emmanuel to rename parks named for Presidents because they were also slave owners.http://legalinsurrection.com/2017/08/inevitable-chicago-pastor-demands-washington-name-be-removed-from-park-because-of-slavery-ties/
In his inimitable fashion, I’ll grant Tyler (and the Colonel, as well) the creditable foresight to call this one. Those of you who find yourselves wishing, hoping, agitating, and activisting for an overturn of the election result, and/or of traditional American culture in general would do well to take their warnings seriously.
If traditional American culture is so deeply and irredeemably corrupt, I must ask, what’s your alternative? And how do you mean to install it? I would at least like to know that. Regardless of your answer to question one, if your answer to question two is “revolution”, well then you and anyone else on that wagon better be prepared to suffer, and to increase many fold the overall quotient of human suffering in the world. Because that’s what it will take.
You want your revolution, but you also want your Wi-Fi to keep working.
You want your revolution, but you also want your hybrid car.
You want your revolution, but you also want your safe spaces, such as your bed when you sleep at night.
If you think you can manage all that by way of shouting down, race baiting, character assassinating, and social shaming, without bearing the great burden of suffering that all revolutions entail, you have bitter days ahead. And there are literally millions of Americans who will oppose you along the way. And unlike the kulaks when the Bolsheviks rode into town, they see you coming and they’re ready for you. And if you insist on taking it as far as you can, it won’t be pretty, and it won’t be cinematic. Just a lot of tragedy for everyone involved. But one side will win, and my guess is it’ll be the guys like Tyler. It’s not my desire or aim to see any of that happen. It’s just how I see things falling out on their current trajectory.
The situation calls to mind a quote from a black radical, spoken-word group from Harlem who were around in the early to mid 60s, called the Last Poets. The line goes, “Speak not of revolution until you are willing to eat rats to survive.” Just something to think about when you advocate burning it all down.
Red Sox owner considers renaming street outside of Fenway……..
https://www.si.com/mlb/2017/08/17/yawkey-way-name-change-john-henry-boston-red-sox
This is where this stuff is going..and there will no good end to it.
The problem with Trump wasn’t his initial statement. It was his followup. No matter how you slice it, it was at the VERY least problematic. I believe it showed him in a light that should have him checking himself.
I wonder how you can excuse the constant mistakes, the common foot in mouth disease that he suffers from…his ability to locate and step on every booby trap laid for him because he will NOT stop tweeting, and basically will not SHUT UP and do work!
The left have achieved their goal and more. The Russia investigation was designed to stall his agenda for a year. Thanks to his infantile behavior his agenda will be stalled for the next 3 years and he has only himself to blame.
Let me repeat so I’m clear. The Sat statement was solid. The Monday insanity is what caused the trouble (I think it was Mon, maybe Tues).
Salve, Publius. Thanks for the article. Col. Lang made an excellent point in the comments’ section that the Confederate memorials represent the reconciliation between the North and the South. The same argument is presented in a lengthier fashion in this morning’s TAC http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/when-confederate-monuments-represent-reconciliation/ . That reconciliation could have been handled much better, i.e. without endorsing Jim Crow. I wish more monuments were erected to commemorate Longstreet and Cleburne, JB Hood and Hardee. I wish there was more Lee and less Forrest. Nonetheless, the important historical point is that a national reconciliation occurred. Removing the statues is a symbolic act which undoes the national reconciliation. The past which is being erased is not the Civil War but the civil peace which followed it. That is tragic.
Sad to hear that. I always recall Pumpsie Green as a great addition to the Boston sports scene. Tom Yawkey built the Red Sox into a dynasty that these rich liberals have not got a clue about. Frankly Charlottsville reminded me of the aftermath of a Southie vs Roxbury football game without the armament. Someone will speak some sense to that Red Sox owner im sure.
Dr. Puck,
Do you agree w/ this elected representative’s statement: ““I hope Trump is assassinated!” Missouri state Sen. Maria Chappelle-Nadal, D-University City, wrote during a morning Facebook exchange, referring to Republican President Donald Trump.”
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/chappelle-nadal-posts-deletes-facebook-post-hoping-for-trump-s/article_406059d6-1aa4-52fc-89ee-2a6a69baaf2e.html
Ishmael Zechariah
A group of conservative Black pastors are demanding the removal of a statue of Margaret Sanger displayed at the Smithstonian, now somebody like me could almost sorta kinda get behind that demand because I consider her a racist murder advocating piece of sh&t. But, I’ll refrain, it’s our history, good or bad.
Most US Army bases in the South are named after Confederate generals. I assume that all of those names must be purged as we rewrite our history
IMO, most of the problems majority of people (specially the ruling class) have with Donald Trump’ presidency is that, he acts and is an accidental president, Ironically, everybody including, him, possibly you, and me who voted for him knows this and is not willing to take his presidency serious and act as such. IMO, he happens to run for president, when the country, due to setbacks and defeat on multiple choice wars, as well as national economic misfortunes and misshapes, including mass negligence of working class, was in dismay and a big social divide, as of the result, majority decided to vote for some one outside of familiar cemented in DC ruling class knowing he is not qualified and is a BS artist. IMO that is what took place, which at the end of the day, ends of to be same.
Please point out what he did wrong in the “follow up.” You’re just repeating the propaganda meme without specifically identifying words or actions that were offensive. Trump is getting a raw deal.
The reconciliation that occurred in the 1870’s and after was between white people. Northern whites agreed to stop protecting the rights of black men and Southern whites were allowed to put Jim Crow into effect. The statues were erected by white supremacists some decades after the war and began promulgating the myth that secession was not mainly about slavery, when the words of the secessionist leaders made it clear that slavery was their central issue.
If I were statue Czar, I would keep the statues up, but I would also erect plaques explaining all of this. If this is about history than make it about actual history, not the romanticized self serving version of it that white Southerners told themselves for generations.
And frankly, there are a hundred other issues that are more important. This is where I would fault some on the left. Facing all the very real problems we have, the last thing we needed was for people to open up a new front in the culture wars. The best thing of all to do with the statues would be to ignore them and let the pigeons use them in peace. I suspect that with some in our elites, the statues make for a good distraction.
As for Trump’s remarks, he said there were good people on both sides at Charlottesville. If he had meant that there are good people opposed to removing the statues, yes. ( I don’t agree with many of their arguments, but that’s life.). But someone point out the good people marching with the neo Nazis actually present at the scene in Charlottesville. I am being literal here. As far as I can tell, those particular people were white racists and Nazis and not simply people who admired General Lee and wanted to keep his statue up, but if there is evidence otherwise, it would be useful to point it out. I would think good people would slip away once they noticed the Nazi contingent. This is the part of Trump’s comment that I have seen people attack.
AK,
Yes. Speaking as a deplorable in deplorable land, The Revolution won’t be fun or easy and it won’t turn out they way a lot of people think it will. The great preponderance of the guns, the balls and the military/LEO training are on the deplorable side of the lines.
All these revolutionary wannabees fail to comprehend that the only reason they can live their lives the way they do is because they exist off the infrastructure built and maintained by the people they hate. Anyone can live without the smart phone aps peddled by thin jean, thin bearded, purple haired transsexual leftist computer geeks. No one can live without the food produced by deplorables in fly-over country. The sections of cities where slacker hipster lefties reside would become mad max worlds with roaming bands of homicidal savages (see South Chicago) without the law enforcement applied by police forces populated largely by deplorable sympathizers, if not full on deplorables.
The left’s leadership – people like billionaire socialists Bezos and Zuckerberg – know this. They themselves live in walled compounds with much security in place. These megalomaniacs are about to send their loyal useful idiots to their doom, as well as their own, eventually.
On a tangent, I think the billionaire socialists have sealed their own fate aside from the firing squad that is looking at them. As Amazon, facebook and Paypal, etc increase excluding various deplorables from using their services, an anti-trust suit appears more likely. People of all stripes use these companies to do business. They have no other option in many cases. Warren Buffet has called this already and has begun dropping shares. Trump is going to most definitely seize the opportunity to use his Justice Dept to hit his enemies where it hurts most.
The Left reminds me of Japan circa 1945 with its desperation and kamikazes.
Netanyahu is under pressure for failing to speak out forcefully against Trump
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/benjamin-netanyahu-resists-calls-to-denounce-trumps-response-to-charlottesville/
Bibi has keen political skills. He hasn’t lasted this long based on his mastery of judo.
James F @ #69, (Since posts are no longer nesting, I am including the comment # as well as the name of the poster to whom I am replying. Thanks.)
And here is an even more egregious example of this from Atlanta. The article is from Breitbart, the comments that follow it are mine from an email in which I shared the link with a friend.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/08/16/protesters-atlanta-tear-peace-monument-mistaking-confederate-symbol/
Ah, the power of mobilized mass stupidity, and there can be no clearer demonstration of the payoff for all of that carefully inculcated historical ignorance. Whoo hoo. The Energizer Morons…still going.
And just for fun, there is this. Again, the link is to a post from Steve Sailer’s blog at the Unz Review, and the comments that follow are mine from an email in which I share this link.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/lincoln-statue-burned-in-98-black-neighborhood-in-chicago-trump-to-blame/
And just to further extend the point on historical iconoclasm run riot, here is the story of the torching of a statue of Abraham Lincoln in a 98% black neighborhood. I seem to remember the lyrics to an old song – “Don’t know much about history…”. Well, this Lincoln fellow was, after all, a white guy, so what do you expect? What’s he doing here? Since Russian President Putin is no longer working as the catchall for whatever, President Trump is, of course, somehow to be held to blame for this.
I agree Lars.
That whole business about giving all sides the right to present their case has always been a bother. Stalin’s plan was far more efficient.
James F,
” Removing the statues is a symbolic act which undoes the national reconciliation.”
That is the intent. The coalition of urban and coastal ethnic populists and economic elites has been for increased concentration and expansion of federal power at the expense of the states, especially the Southern states, for generations. This wave of agitprop with NGO and MSM backing is intended to undo the constitutional election and return the left to power at the federal level.
I agree with most of Trump’s policy positions, but he is negating these positions with his out-of-control mouth and tweets.
As much as I have nothing but contempt and loathing for the “establishment” (Dems, Republicans, especially the media, the “intelligence” community and the rest of the permanent government), Trump doesn’t seem to comprehend that he can’t get anything done without taming some of these elements, all of whom are SERIOUSLY opposed to him as a threat to their sinecures and riches.
“Who is this OUTSIDER to come in and think that he in charge of OUR government?”
What seems like a balanced eyewitness account of Charlottesville that suggests that although the radicals on both sides brought the violence, it was the police who allowed it to happen.
https://newrepublic.com/article/144365/cops-dropped-ball-charlottesville
The need to keep protesters away from counter-protesters particular when both are tooled should be obvious to anyone, but not so with the protest in Charlottevlle.
-“Trump isnt our last chance. Its your last chance.”
Reminds me of the 60’s and the SDS and their ilk. A large part of the under 30 crowd idolized Mao’s Little Red Book and convinced themselves the “revolution” was imminent. So many times I heard the phrase “Up Against the Wall, MFs.” Stupid fools. Back then people found each other by “teach-ins” and the so called “underground press.” In those days it took a larger fraction to be able to blow in each other’s ear and convince themselves they were the future “vanguard.”
These days, with the internet, it is far easier for a smaller fraction to gravitate to an echo chamber, reinforce group think, and believe their numbers are much larger than what, in reality, exists. This happens across the board. It’s a rabbit hole Tyler. Don’t go down it.
Booby
Yes, Forts Bragg, Hood, Lee, AP Hill, Benning, etc., started as temporary camps during WW1 and were so named to encourage Southern participation in the war. The South had been reluctant about the Spanish War. Wade Hampton, governor of SC said of that war, “Let the North fight. the South knows the cost of war.” pl
I would like to share my viewpoint. As a firm believer in the media efforts to sabotage Trump and a former supporter (now agnostic, trending negative – Goldman Sachs swamp creatures in the Oval Office????), he greatly disappointed me. First, i will state, that I do not believe Trump is anti=semitic (no antisemite will surround himself with rich Jewish Bankers).
But violence on all sides is absolute BS.
Nazi violence gets its own sentence and language at least as strong as the language he has no trouble hitting ISIS with. Didn’t hear that. So I guess in his mind, the threat the US faced from Nazis during WW2 was less than a ragtag, 3rd world guerilla force whose only successes are because of 1. US, Saudi, and other weapons, and their war on unstable third world countries. Give me a break – did he never watch a John Wayne movie as a kid?
When I discuss nazi’s, F-bombs are dropped. I support the right of nazi’s to march and spew their vitriolic hatred, and even more strongly support the right of free speech to counter their filth with facts and arguments and history. I am sorry, but Antifa was not fighting against the US in WW2. If one wants to critique Antifa, or another group, that criticism belongs in a separate paragraph or better in another press conference. Taking 2 days to do so, and then walking it back, is the hallmark of a political idiot (or a billionaire who listens to no one and lives in his own mental echo chamber).
If Trump gets his info and opinions from TV news, despite having the $80+ billion US Intel system at his beck and call, he is the largest idiot on the planet.
Trump blew it when he didn’t completely and unequivocally condemn the Nazi wannabes. He waffled back and forth equally condemning both groups. If you don’t understand that here is an article that will help explain why:
http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/local/milwaukee/2017/08/17/protesters-carrying-nazi-flags-shock-wisconsin-world-war-ii-vets-and-holocaust-survivors/577112001/
Sure blame rests with both sides but……………if the Nazi wannabes hadn’t been there the Antifa wackos wouldn’t have shown up either.
Now the Nazi pukes are trying to brand themselves as defenders of confederate monuments and “Southern Culture” and they are finding sympathy from gullible people. I am astounded that anybody in the US can sympathize with these socially deviant assholes. Make no mistake, these Nazis would love to recreate Hitler’s Germany in the US.
I have no dog in the statue fight. They depict historical figures, Robert E. Lee was a great general and man as were some of the other individuals depicted in sculpture. Sherman and Grant were great generals and men of their time also. The way people are acting you would think these individuals were saints. The way people are acting you would think the Civil War ended yesterday, not 150 years ago. Get over it. Leave the damn statues alone, if you are going to remove statues of that period tear them all down, Confederate and Union.
Watch out, history is trying to repeat itself. The north and south were sucked into the civil war by a bunch of northern and southern radicals and wealthy slave owners. Slavery is evil and could have been eliminated peacefully if calmer heads had prevailed. Most southern and northern soldiers had no dog in that fight but 600,000 died. We have radicals inciting people to violence again. Commenters on this blog are talking CW. In this day and age you would think people would know better than to advocate for war. Calm down!
It doesn’t matter whether Trump is getting a raw deal or not. Politics has nothing to do with fairness.
But when you’ve lost Bob Corker, and even Newt Gingrich is getting wobbly, when Fox News is having a hard time finding Republicans willing to go on and defend Trump, you don’t need to be Nostradamus to see what’s going to happen.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/17/politics/bob-corker-criticizes-trump-charlottesville/index.html
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/18/newt-sounds-the-alarm-trump-wont-have-stable-presidency-without-serious-changes-video/
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/346867-foxs-shepard-smith-we-couldnt-find-a-republican-willing-to-come
I can remember in the not too distant past when Americans were all in an uproar about the looting and destruction of historical buildings and artifacts in Iraq and Afghanistan. This country is being destroyed from within and I blame the media. They have the power. Insanity rules. Where will it end?
Laura’s comment is typical of those seen in the WaPo comments section along with: “Comrade, What time do you get off work?” and “What is the weather today in St. Petersburg?” They are placed there to intimidate others and serve no useful purpose.
@Richardstevenhack
I quote: “Whenever I hear the word culture, I reach for my revolver.”
You are aware that you are quoting fat swine (in spite of being addicted to cocaine) Göring?
OM “Believing and saying what you want, no matter how offensive is legal.” maybe needs a sentence or two re the consequences of “non-conact free speech” eg treason and libel.
No doubt Stalin was very efficient, up to a point. It came to an end. But it is about having some limits to expression. It is like not being able to yell “fire” in a crowded theater, if there is not one present. When you espouse racism, you have crossed a line that is not constructive and can be very destructive. There are other examples of where there should be some lines even in an open society.
You can come to my house and talk about this anytime, but not if you are bringing an AR-15, any other gun, or even a knife. Since I live in one of those medieval constructs, the gated community, hopefully I can enforce those limitations.
Thank you for numbering the posts.
AEL @20
Then Fox did not look very hard.
Looking only for general info from witnesses who were there, I came across a video posted by a group calling themselves the “Patriots”. They chose to post a group video, with about 15 members, men and women,including one very dark skinned man, stating explicitly what they did and did not stand for:
1) We are not racists; and we have black members. 2) We do not agree with the alt-Right racists, but we believe absolutely in their right to speech and assembly. 3) We do not agree with the other side either, but we defend their right to speak too. 4) We are here to support free speech and the right to assemble. 5) And we do not want the statue removed.
Their statement was less succinct. They found many ways to repeat “right to free speech and assembly.” They did not appear to be a highly educated group, probably don’t make schooled arguments about the generation of these rights. But their very firm commitment to Constitutional rights was like a fresh breeze, in a period when those rights are being eroded in law, and seem little valued or discussed in popular fora.
Maybe the video had dropped off youtube, when Fox went looking. Some witness videos seem to appear and disappear. That was one small group.
Another video, from The Hill maybe, interviewed a single man on the street, who said he was there just to demonstrate for saving the statue, and was not a supporter of either of the large groups shouting at each other about other issues.
If that’s a random sampling, there must have been others.
How do you know?
Bob Corker? What the hell does losing Bob Corker mean? He is a spineless nobody. Not know for great intellect nor wisdom nor courage. You’re just swilling kool aid.
Vietnam Vet @42
I do not trust that scheming governor, McAuliffe, as far as I could toss him. I believe he knew exactly what trouble was headed to Cville well before it arrived.
He is unable to stop himself. When he says something coherent he is reading it when he goes off script watch out. He is his own worst enemy.
If my memory is correct Goebbels is credited with this citation ” when I hear the world culture I grab my revolver”
Richardstevenshack seems to have strange bed fellows.
You are so dramatic, do you really believe the military and the powers that be are going to back militia groups that seem to have forgotten that they left the military years ago or were kicked out, Alt Right frat boys with their nicely creased khakis and white polo shirts and morons dressed up in bed sheets with pointed hoods. Can you really see Matis or Kelly backing these people
AK you state it so well. It amazes and horrifies me how some posters on SST so long for a revolution which will destroy all who do not think like them or submit to their rules. How is that any different than Pol Pot, Stalin, Hitler or IS?
Old Microbiologist:
Chomsky says “Antifa is a major gift to the right”:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/noam-chomsky-antifa-is-a-major-gift-to-the-right/article/2631786
So the grandmaster of leftists essentially agrees with you that they are no good either. They have prevented exercise of first amendment rights for years. It’s their MO.
I hope he remains president for his full four years. I would rather have a president with foot in mouth disease than Pence.
You are quite right. The reconciliation was botched. The Appalachian/Ozark whites who largely supported the Union were written out of the story, as were the Confederate draftees whose families starved while large scale slave owners had the opportunity to avoid front line service. The demands of Confederate clergymen to reform the slave owning regime were forgotten. African Americans paid the bill for our national reconciliation. That was unjust, but the reconciliation itself was both necessary and good.
Reconciliation depends on symbolism and not all former Confederate leaders were adequate symbols of reconciliation. For example, Forrest was a brilliant field commander, but he was a war criminal at Fort Pillow and a terrorist afterwards. He could never be an adequate symbol of national reconciliation. On the other hand, Longstreet commanded black troops during Reconstruction. He was held hostage by racist terrorists and barely escaped being murdered. Cleburne proposed emancipation in 1863. Hardee supported him and co-authored a 1868 book which included a biography of Cleburne and some hard denunciations of slavery by Southern RC bishops. Two of Gen. Polk’s nephews, one a general officer, strongly supported Cleburne’s emancipation plan. Breckenridge was on board and Johnson was at least sympathetic. JB Hill was adamantly opposed, but he repented of his racism in his biography. He admitted that he had been blindly prejudiced and that Cleburne had been right. Lee surrendered with dignity. He lost his family property, but he didn’t make himself a center of resistance. That was wise, and his wisdom deserves respect. The vast majority of Southern clergymen saw the Confederacy’s fall as God’s judgement on slavery. If you’re interested, Cleburne’s emancipation plan is online at https://www.civilwar.org/learn/primary-sources/patrick-cleburnes-proposal-arm-slaves . The best secondary source on the subject is still Thomas Hay’s 1919 study in the Mississippi Historical Review. Hay was born at West Point, and his father commanded African American troops during WWI. Eugene Genovese’s “Consuming Fire” is a good source on Confederate clerical objections to slavery.
My grandfather was torpedoed three times on the Murmansk run. One of my uncles served in France and Germany after D-Day. Another uncle was a Royal Dutch Marine Commando who was on the raid to free Queen Wilhelmina. I have no time for Nazis. My only ancestor who served in the Civil War was a NCO with the US Colored troops, so it’s no surprise that I’m not partial to Neo-Confederates either. Nonetheless, taking down Confederate monuments will have unforeseen and tragic consequences. I hope we all won’t be sitting down to a nice dinner of rat in a couple of years.
Publius Tacitus,
While I agree with your point, you must realize that you are describing most of the congress critters.
Which is why congress’s approval rating is single digit. Which doesn’t matter as they vote 99 out of 100 for their large donors (per a number of studies).
For some reason Trump doesn’t seem to realize this anymore (surprising given his history of legalized bribery of congress – I mean donations). When he loses support of the donor class, he loses, and that is the significance of spineless Corker.
Not happy about the way the US is, but I dont see it changing, not with Goldman Sachs in the cabinet.
Thanks for the research and update. I stand corrected. A few have called for the removal of the statues of slaveholders. Got it.
And the alt-right has already had its Gettysburg:
Joel B. Pollak @joelpollak 41m41 minutes ago
#WAR
Followed by this tweet:
With Steve Bannon Gone, Donald Trump Risks Becoming Arnold Schwarzenegger 2.0 – Breitbart
Joel is the editor of Brietbart and Donald Maximus just fired his old boss. Get to your local market before all the popcorn is gone.
We agree to disagree.
Obama’s race was not a clear and necessary component of the birther claims made by Trump.
The birther claims were about, implicitly, an alternative assertion about former President Obama’s birthplace. It wasn’t, ummm, France.
I am always delighted at people’s defense of Trump based in their not having any thorough knowledge of his long life, about his biography. But, Trump during the campaign retweeted racist tweets. fwiw
jld,
I think the kind of thinking that Randy engages in (i.e. if X wasn’t there, Y wouldn’t be there either) is exactly how situations like this spiral out of control.
It seems disturbingly common for all manner of extreme accusations to be thrown about. Mildly bigoted but otherwise well-meaning (i.e. absolute vast majority of people everywhere–no one is truly free of some bias towards someone or something some time, but most people mean well and are willing to change) are accused of horrendous things by extremists for flimsiest excuses. They are forced to put up false fronts and turn blind eye towards real crazies, one way or the other. Harsh words have no more meaning because epithets are thrown indiscriminately at everyone everywhere for any reason, and extremists of all sides become “normalized.” In order to put a stop to this, all extremists need to be called out for what they are, not give excuse to one side or the other because they are somehow “better” than the other (better according to whom?) so that the center can hold.
Eric Newhill,
Reminds me of France (and much of Europe), in 18th century. Both their obsession with allegedly all powerful “reason” (created of their own self-deluding nature) and desire for enlightened and supposedly “rational” despots to put all things in their rightful places by force. When the revolution(s) came, both sides, superficially, subscribed to the same nonsense–the monarchists were just as creatures of Enlightenment as the Revolutionaries, while, it seems the peasants were the only one who didn’t care for the whole reason bunk. After a few decades of fighting, though, everyone just got sick of the Enlightenment nonsense and the 19th century took on a different tone (although, unfortunately, no less bloody). The peasants, in a sense, won after all and the cult of reason was beaten back for the time being.
We need a new Bismarck, but I fear that we won’t get one until we have had our version of the wars of French Revolution.
Donald,
I think your idea, of putting up plaques to explain all the statues (and, while we are at it, teach actual history in schools, not propaganda for one side or the other) is a great idea!
Lars,
“When you espouse racism, you have crossed a line that is not constructive and can be very destructive. ”
When BLM espoused their racism, multiple times, it lead to 5 cops in Dallas being killed. That’s one reason Trump got elected.
This a reference to the often-mistranslated quotation commonly attributed to Hermann Göring [not Goebbels] — “When I hear the word ‘culture’, that’s when I reach for my revolver” — the actual quote is “Wenn ich Kultur höre … entsichere ich meinen Browning!” This translates as: “Whenever I hear [the word] ‘culture’… I remove the safety from my Browning!” In fact, it is a line uttered by the character Thiemann in Act 1, Scene 1 of the play ‘Schlageter,’ written by Hanns Johst. The association with Nazism is appropriate, as the play was first performed in April 1933, in honor of Hitler’s birthday.
No, I do not agree. I understand our Constitution proposes remedies of a political nature for the problem of unfitness, or, any problem that might be rectified by impeachment. This would in concrete effect overturn the results POTUS’s victory in the electoral college.
My bet would be on Trump resigning the office. On the other hand, he may well be re-elected in 2020.
It is ironic that with substantial more discipline and greater strategic alignment in his staff, the POTUS might have brought together more gerrymandering, more ruthless management of voter rolls, possibly a Constitutional Convention, maybe even a more integrated funding arrangement with crucial anti-swamp plutocrats, and, above all, an actual middle class economic agenda–as opposed to another round of supply-side reaganomics–and sent the left and the Dems packing once and for all.
The promise was not trickle-down but a robust reinvigoration of the work ethos and the good-paying manufacturing or mining or building sectors of main street and middle America and rust belt and other places, (albeit some places perilously cheek-to-jowl with cosmopolitan centers of gravity.)
Ivanka would be well positioned in 2024 under a regime that could use its normative political powers under the limitations posed by the US Constitution to create an actual majority. And, position itself to unravel New Deal collectivism once and for all. (Oh wait, that would bring grandma back home!)
Except, Trump didn;t fill his cabinet with anti-wall streeters, did he? He didn’t put any job creators and credible middle class advocates anywhere near the cabinet. Goldman-Sachs? Really?
Meanwhile, we’re lacking for any explanation other than impulse control and thin skin about why the WH game today is entirely a short game.
As for the end of Trumpism. Meanwhile, what I read from some here is that very well-armed and very hard men and very practiced managers of small group kinetics are going to possibly drive up to Cleveland, kill me and the other low-hanging fruit, numbering about, roughly, 100,000,000, and re-institute, what exactly? Trump? The old Republic? A better Republic; new and improved?!
Alas, I thought all along Trump’s mental challenges could be problematic. By the spring of 2016 I wondered were Trump to be elected, would his WH be chaotic and “day-to-day” as was his campaign.
We now have the answer. Two answers, the other one involving a second CW. Soros and HRC and Obama must be laughing their asses off.
Lars, you are truly clueless if you think your chintzy faux iron gate is going to stop death squads from getting in. Talking? My goodness. You have no idea.
This must have been how the US felt after Lincoln’s election. Next is the Fort Sumter event that changes everything and we only recognize it in hindsight.
It does appear that the people who will benefit from the disintegration of civility in the U.S. have won. I keep wondering what the government is doing while we are busy hatng each other
Colonel, with the amount of 24/7 pounding this president is getting from all directions, including his side and his own, IMO this president is done, maybe too well done by now, as An Richerd said, you can now put a fork in him.
I didn’t say I was a fan, but Corker 1) is a Senator and 2) until recently was a staunch Trump supporter.
Whether he is a “spineless nobody” or not is irrelevant. Last I checked, his vote counts the same as any other Senator.
You can hide your head in the sand if you want, but the vultures are circling.
http://nypost.com/2017/08/18/steve-bannon-is-out-at-white-house/
Meanwhile, for those who are interested.
To answer Publius Tacitus’s question at #97, losing Bob Corker means that Corker is not afraid of Trump and has his ear to his modern, southern constituency that no longer responds to racist dog whistles and will penalize those who do.
Corker accurately realizes that most people in Tennessee are just tired of overt and covert racism and simply want to do everything they can just to get along with their neighbors of all colors and national origins. It was the nighttime candle vigil at Charlottesville that most accurately reflects where the South is moving, not the fighting between the crazies.
The monuments have become symbolic sore spots that are roadblocks to a better functioning, more diverse, and vibrant community.
It not just the “radicals” who want the monuments gone, it is a rapidly growing host of moderates and descendants of slave-holding families like me who understand they must go.
To the extent that the monuments had a purpose, it has passed and they just rehearse and inflame painful memories better left to study in museums and history lessons. If the monuments serve as a remembrance of a historical past, that past is not simple to parse and it is a part of us that is not particularly pretty. That slaveholding past is worthy of remembrance as a part of our origin story, but not as something to be emulated. We rightly venerate our ancestor’s bravery and honor, but we should not venerate their actions as slave holders and white supremists. The time when those belief structures worked is long past. Instead, the slave and Jim Crow past is a reminder of what should not be repeated so we can do better this Century.
We, here in the South, should just move the monuments to museums that tell the whole story so we can move along getting along. The current fighting is not productive.
At Appomattox where my great-great grandfather was paroled, Lee ordered the flag furled and cased, and by my families stories, never, ever to be uncased as it would be treason against the nation Lee had sworn allegiance to for the second time. From reading his writings, Lee would probably be appalled that his statues have become so toxically symbolic of our divisions.
We are no longer a nation of slave and free or entirely white and black. Now we are different, wonderfully talented and diverse, with each group having rich value. We need to revise our mindset from markers of race to markers of character and individual worth and achievement. We do not need to jump with Trump headlong into the dustbin of history by reverting to the old habits.
“Losing Corker” is evidence that it is time to move on past the old, tired, dividing hatreds to strengthen our common weal by working together, white, black, and brown. We are a better country now than ever before! The idea of MAGA is a backward looking slogan. We are great. We do not need to be made great again. Fighting the old, dead issues will not help us make America even greater.
I kinda suspected that myself. Thanks for your reply, Colonel.
I’m not sure which comment you’re responding to here, so I can’t answer your question definitively. However, in general, the answer would be ‘no’.
All
I opted recently to put numbers on the posts by I don’t see them. Where do you? pl
Brother Joe
Where do you see the post numbers? pl
How to see the numbers on the posts. Log out of Typepad and when logged out, open them in a browser. You should see them on the left of each post.
origin
Too much trouble – enjoy the numbers. As for PT, He is occulted. i have concealed his true name and identity deliberately. Why should you complain? You do not use your real name. As for Augustinl, This is not a public space and I have enough SJWs here. I am not interested in providing you a platform. pl
PT,
this is your best “get off my lawn” post to date. Keep up the good work.
James F
The planter class had the opportunity to avoid service but few did. Their casualty numbers reflect that. The only Applachians who supported the Union were in east Tennessee and in the W. Virginia counties in the really high country. Along the Ohio they supported the CSA as did W. Virginia people in the panhandle. Which hobby horse are you riding? pl
nancy K
“that seem to have forgotten that they left the military years ago or were kicked out,’ Any basis for that claim? pl
“Thompson, a member of the Workers World Party”
Trots, yes. When your opponents accuse the Right-wing of being a hive-mind, do you find it offensive and simplistic?
“100 million dead bodies over the course of the 20th century is pretty solid proof to the contrary. “
Buying wholesale into this magic(k)al number of “100 millions” number from the “Black book of communism”, do you?
ALL
Some people here continue to be unable to tell the difference between analysis and advocacy. Work on it. pl
Reading the comments over the past few days here, I sense a tremendous amount of anger. Some of you have talked about a second Civil War or alluded to an armed insurrection putting people who disagree on notice that one side has the preponderance of guns.
Folks, we have a political problem to solve. This should be solved in a Democratic fashion as our founders set forth. I happen to think Trump is a buffoon but he is our President until he is not. If Congress impeaches him that would be the result of widespread, non-partisan, agreement. If no impeachment it means Trump is president until 2020, then we get another shot at electing a President or reelecting Trump.
It’s obvious the media can’t stand Trump. So What? If Trump gets his Republican CongressCritters to agree with his agenda, it doesn’t matter what the media says. In this day and age, there are plenty of outlets Trump supporters can use to get their message out. If they can sway the public to support Trump, then that is the American way. This blog is just one such example of getting the Trump message out.
If 60% of the country wants Trump out, then that is what will happen next election. If the remaining 40% disagree they will get another chance in 4 years. Can the grievance of the 40% justify an armed insurrection?
Not complaining and understand why people are occulted. Just curious as to generalities to better understand his perspective and point of view.
It is proper that posters have the right to choose how much of their personal they wish to reveal.
Nancy,
I think your reading of my comment is clouded by your political views. Just so we’re clear, I’m speaking very explicitly about the SJW Left. The mentality you describe, that “which will destroy all who do not think like them or submit to their rules”, that is the SJW Left in a nutshell. Their calls for revolution and the dismantling of traditional American culture and its values (that is absolutely what they want) will inevitably necessitate violence to bring their vision to fulfillment. THAT is who you saw smashing store windows and burning cars at the inauguration, THAT is who you saw across from the Nazi knuckleheads in VA last week, THAT is who you see prowling college campuses looking to harm and intimidate professors and students who refuse to ascribe to their bent, fucked up ideology. Look up the case of Prof. Bret Weinstein at Evergreen State College in Washington. It should horrify you and every freedom loving American.
The people like Tyler are the ones who will resist that revolution, with countering and IMO superior violence. Do you really think that military, ex-military, and LEOs will side with anarchic nihilists and closet communists as they seek to overturn everything this society is founded upon? Do you think that the military and LEOs will side with authoritarian cretins who seek to impose limits on public speech and eventually individual thought? Do you really think that these men and women will stand idly by while the Constitution to which they swore an oath is torn to shreds? Make no mistake, THAT is the goal of the Left. You are so missing the boat on this one. It’s not your fault necessarily. You, like many well meaning people, fall for the faux “justice” veil of their movement, and are probably secretly afraid of being subjected to their character assassinations and social shaming. When they figure out that rhetoric alone won’t accomplish their goals, what’s the next logical step? These people are every bit as pyscho-pathological as the far right. They’re just cowards about it.
My statement is a warning to SJW Left, and those who support, apologize for, and merely entertain them. I’m saying unequivocally that the Leftist factions in the universities, political class, media, and government are agitating against very potent and dangerous elements in our society, which they don’t fully understand and which they’re nowhere near prepared to deal with once those people are sufficiently aroused. Colonel Lang is correct about there being an abyss which we’re all flirting with, and the moment it looks back at us, it’s game on. Be brave, do the research, and figure out who the real actors are and what their real intentions are, because sooner or later, they’ll come for you, too.
Dr. Puck @115,
re: unfitness
Here is Chapelle-Nadal’s defense:
“There is no way in hell that I’m resigning. There are legislators who have cheated on their wives, they have smoked in the legislature, in the state capitol. If they have not been asked to resign for those acts, which I do believe that cheating on your wife or your spouse is immoral, I am not resigning for a mistake that I made and that I’m owning up to.”
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2017/08/17/maria-chappelle-nadal-no-way-in-hell-resigning-facebook/
A very erudite female person. Her diatribe could be used to argue that BLM agitators, so-called anti-fascist SJWs as well as their intellectual cheer-leaders are unfit to be a “democratic” opposition.
Ishmael Zechariah
eakens — I agree. The draft focussed us all on what being American citizens means and entails.
BillWade,
“Someone on the last thread said in a very elegant way that what binds us Americans together is one thing, economic opportunity for all.”
I did not comment on that at the time but I must veheminately disagree. That is a highly simplistic comment. There is far more to being an American than having an opportunity to make a buck.
Lyttenburgh,
I don’t have opponents and I don’t get offended. I have discussions and dialogues, because I don’t subscribe to an ideology. I find all ideologies repugnant – right, left, up, or down.
As for my figure, ok so what? 100 million dead is an exaggeration? A bit too unfair? Is it more like a measly 80 million? Hell, I’ll be charitable and only lay 50 million dead at their doorstep. You know what? F&*$ it, just a handful, something like 30 million. I think that’s extremely charitable, when you actually look into the events surrounding the USSR between 1919 and 1959, not to mention Mao’s Cultural Revolution and the Great Leap Forward. Hmmm, throw in the Khmer Rouge and Viet Cong for flavor, and garnish it with Castro and the like. What’s your threshold death toll to call something manifestly evil?
Your comment suggests that you’re actually coming to the defense of Marxism. If such is the case, why not just admit that, in your opinion, “it really wasn’t all that bad…”? I’m not making a declaration on your motives or your stance, but your comment makes me wonder, and clarification would be welcome.
Lastly, take a look at Colonel Lang’s comment below. It very much applies to almost everything I write or say.
The leader of the militia had been in the marines for 3 years and was definitely not young. The 20 year old driving the car hitting the protesters had been discharged after 2 months. The militia in Oregon, the Bundys, were quite disorganized.
You’ve figured it out Nancy: The cops and the military will certainly side with mystery meat gender studies grads, skinny jeans wearing, low test “males”, trannies, and Muslims insisting that FGM is halal (all of whom hate them) against the Deploreables who are their family.
You should totally go with that logic, uh huh uh huh. Also, just out of curiosity, do you have right of return like your husband or are you a shiksa? Totally just asking for no reason at all.
khc #111
Agree. Some things never change.
Reason without sufficient intelligence and wisdom is just an excuse.
Before you can attempt at a political solution, you would need to Rectify Names. At moment, language is confused and per theSage, Disorder cannot be stopped.
A monument has been removed from a cemetery in Madison, WI, where Confederate POWs were burried. They are also planning to remove a stone on which the names of the dead are carved.
These people are truly shameless.
Tldr: Alt Left mayor deaecrates the graves of veterans
http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/madison-mayor-paul-soglin-orders-removal-of-confederate-monuments-at/article_0cd509e6-3b6b-56ab-b05c-c693d84de05d.html
PT is right. The notion that Trump is a latent racist is total misinformation. The president was clear and forthright. He correctly addressed the threat that the alt-left movement embodied by Antifa and the alt-right movement embodied by Richard Spencer both pose.
I do get the sense that this will snowball because of how the broad spectrum of mainstream opinion has excused and lionized the actions of Antifa. That to me is the real danger.
Nancy K,
“discharged after 2 months.” It sounds like he got canned before he completed basic. He probably spent a month of that in some holding company awaiting a discharge. As to your comments on the Bundy’s, yes they were disorganized. They were also arrested, tried and aquited.
http://www.npr.org/2016/11/04/500506710/bundy-militia-not-backing-down-following-oregon-trial-acquittal
“As for my figure, ok so what? 100 million dead is an exaggeration? A bit too unfair? Is it more like a measly 80 million?”
Any number would be meaningless, because of the double standards. Because for the likes of you everyone it goes this way:
– All who died in the socialist states were, OBVIOUSLY, innocent victims,
– From the actions of “democracies” with the capitalism – “natural causes, nothing to do here”.
Oh, and don’t forget to include in the number of those dead at the hands of the Reds all those Nazis.
Don’t lie, AK, I heard enough of you on unz. You DO have ideology and very Right-wing one.
“Your comment suggests that you’re actually coming to the defense of Marxism. If such is the case, why not just admit that, in your opinion, “it really wasn’t all that bad…”?”
Of course it wasn’t bad. Yes, I’m defending it. I also defending historical truth. Meme of “100 millions” is patently untrue. Those who propagate it have certain agenda and zero scruples.
So what you gonna do about it?
a. It’s a frequently parroted meme that “Hitler said . repeat a big lie . . . people will believe . . .Goebbels . . .” etc. Just one of the many sets of misinformation — comic book history– many American people rely upon.
Parenthetically –They may have said those things, but the facts are that the British were masters of propaganda, not the Germans — Germans were simultaneously quite clumsy, and Goebbels was overly-concerned with aesthetic values — to produce the biting propaganda that US and British did
see here: http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-alexander-cockburn-and-the-british-spies/
and here: http://www.thornwalker.com/ditch/mahl.htm
b. GIVEN that popularly believed meme, that repetition of a lie results in acquiescence to it as a ‘truth,’ On C Span Washington Journal on Aug 14 and Aug 15, Moderator John McArdle invited the audience to express their opinion on “Trump’s statements about Charlottesville.”
The Aug. 15 segment dedicated to that question lasted for 61 minutes. In that 61 minutes, McArdle repeated “hate” 41 times. “White” was spoken about 20 times; in 12 of those instances, “white” was paired with “supremacist.”
If a caller expressed an opinion other than that “white supremacists” bore full culpability, McArdle challenged that caller by questioning why the caller did not view “white supremacists” as a “hate group.”
That is, indeed, how memes —> historical factoids.
Based on readings in Thomas Mahl’s book (noted above) and of Lynne Olsen’s “Those Angry Days,” which relies in good measure on Mahl’s research, it was precisely by manipulating ‘memes’ in the manner that McArdle did on C Span — “educating the public,” Olsen calls it — that the American people were induced to give acquiescence to US involvement in European wars which the American people had hitherto resisted, on the belief that no substantial American interest was involved.
Freeing up Corker to concentrate his hate on Iran.
Swell.
“Why does he keep feeding the media/punditry?”
Because they keep eating it up??
Because Trump is a showman who understands media, and a money man who understands revenue generation, and understands that “feeding the media” tweets is money in their bank, which puts them on HIS side.
As I remember, not even during Watergate the pounding and drum beats were this intense, at least we don’t have 24/7 so called news TV punditry. This is new and amazing, and very dangerous for whatever has been left of this constitution and the democracy it was to represent. IMO, potus did not say or did anything wrong with regard with regard recent racial events in Virginia, an someone tell me what did he say or done that was in support of the white racists? Like Truman said in DC he should have got himself a dog instead of friends and advisers.
Fred
“what binds us Americans together is one thing, economic opportunity for all.”
Or war.
Colonel, IMO this new comment format you have adopted is much easier to read, fallow and reply to comments . Before I use to miss a lot or good replies to comments made on this fine blog. Now, when I get a chance for re-pilgrimage to this blog, I know where I have left.
Here is a different approach to think about the “monument” issue.
We should stop asking, “why did the South fight the Civil War” but ask “why did the North fight the Civil War?”
The North fought the Civil War to preserve the union. That was Lincoln’s stated goal. No more no less. He was clear at the outset that feeing slaves was not the primary purpose of the war.
After “winning” the war, the North wanted to preserve the Union. Much like the present day United States brings combatants into governments around the world, the North did the same thing. As part of its strategy, it allowed the South the set up an apartheid regime. Much of which was embraced in the states that made up the Union.
Apartheid continued with much vigor through the early 20th century. At a certain point, with a changing population, in order to preserve the Union, business and military leaders started down a path to deconstruct apartheid. This is why the business community and military condemned the KKK, Nazis and Trump this week. Its implicit message was that the United States will continue down the path of deconstructing the remnants of apartheid, including those in public spaces. You can consider it almost a reflex reaction.
The monuments, while interpreted by predominately Southern whites as memorials to the military sacrifices of Southern men, can also be interpreted as a symbol of the might of a slave holding/apartheid regime. This interpretation by not just the African American community, but also many other Americans takes away from the goal of preserving the union. In addition, tensions have been exacerbated by neither side accepting the other side’s interpretation as legitimate.
As the United State continues along the continuum of deconstructing apartheid to preserve the union, the monuments will be moved out of the public space. It is not a question of if, but when. Changing southern demographics and a push from business leadership, not the elites from Berkeley, will make this happen.
It is not hard to imagine these statutes ending up in a museum where they will be one of many artifacts explaining the evolving interpretation of the history of the United States
Well… that was easy.
Fred at 138. I would be happy if I could agree with you, we’d all be living in a better USA it that were true. The “American Dream” is the POSSIBILITY to improve one’s standard of living through hard work and determination to succeed. Of course, lots of people don’t succeed very well but they will blame themselves for not studying/working/planning well enough. When the POSSIBILITY starts to go away, specific groups will start blaming other specific groups and the result may lead to frustration and then onto violence. Young White men have been hit particularly hard in recent years. They have done what they were led to believe would result in success, the American Dream. Now they are being told to train foreigners coming here on H!-B visas to do their jobs and then to quietly go away; they are also seeing less qualified groups getting the jobs they trained for in the name of diversity instead of qualification.
Great post. Great comments. Learning a lot.
As an English deplorable who wants to see my country run for the people rather than for the cronies I take an interest in how my sort is described. In the States there’s no choice in the matter. The progressives lump my sort in with the neo-nazis and the white supremacists and that’s that.
In England I still don’t get to be called a deplorable who wants to see the country run for the people etc. Instead the progressives tell me I’m suffering from “a certain kind of cultural nostalgia.” Same box they want to put me in, different label.
(From a BBC article on Steve Bannon) “Border security, aggressive trade protectionism, immigration reform and a certain kind of cultural nostalgia – all were themes that Mr Trump ran on from the start – ”
Ugh. Thanks very much Mr Progressive, American or English. I had hoped that the progressives would turn over a new leaf and take an interest in boring stuff like getting the economy right or reining in the cronies. No chance. Instead they’ve ramped up the war on the Little House on the Prairie. Tyler, you were right.
jdledell #133
Come on man, you are so full of it. You fail to understand that the country is a constitutional republic, not a straight democracy where your fellow travelers can whip up mobs to cause craven politicians to cave to the appearance of a majority.
Given your fancy elitist background one would think you would have come across this idea somewhere along the way. So you’re probably just deliberately making what you think is a persuasive argument to the weak minded and ignorant. I suppose what with dual citizenship and a globalized family, you don’t care about the constitution too much. Well, some of can’t and/or don’t want to just abandon the country if things get too out of hand in a social experiment gone awry. Furthermore, some of us value the ideals set forth in the country’s fundamental law.
If you want to be a SJW, I think there is plenty to keep you busy in your promised land.
With respect, Colonel, the argument that the great plantation owners were obstacles to winning the war is a central argument of Cleburne’s petition which was signed by 14 field grade (or junior officers in command of regiments) and general officers of the Army of Tennessee. The petition also had the support of Cleburne’s seniors, Generals Hardee, Breckinridge, and Hindman. Cleburne considered Johnson sympathetic to the plan, although he didn’t support it. There is considerable, but by no means conclusive, evidence that Longstreet was party to the petition’s planning while his corps was detached from the Army of Northern Virginia.
In the Trans-Mississippi Department (Texas excepted), the great plantation owners’ behavior was especially egregious, actively resisting the draft, refusing to shift to food production, selling cotton to the US Navy, and blocking provisioning of troops in the field.
As regards Unionist support, you are unquestionably right about that support being centered in the mountain districts of Virginia, Eastern Tennessee, and North Carolina. Still, over 100,000 white Southerners served in the Union army, without counting those from the border states of Appalachian Kentucky and Ozark Missouri which were represented in the Confederate congress. That is a not inconsiderable number, especially when it is concentrated in low population areas.
With respect, sir, I consider Cleburne a great American hero. He had vision. His plan to free and arm the Confederacy’s slaves demonstrates that senior Confederate officers were able to change their ideas about race and citizenship. If I have too great an admiration for the man, I plead guilty. I don’t want his monument removed or his memory forgotten.
james f
Why “with respect?” I share your appreciation of Cleburne, his views and those of his friends. As mike and I somehow agreed a few days ago the manpower problem was central to difficulties in Confederate grand strategy. A measured early emancipation in 1863 based on voluntary military service as Cleburne recommended would probably have solved that problem. pl
In reply to Tyler (message #15), I just don’t see it. I’ll admit I’ve no idea of what the real situation is, but all I see these days wherever I look is people virtue signalling their way to oblivion.
I find it odd that the only “winner” of the current crisis in the internal US politics is the ADL, which has now received many millions of dollars, a funding drive started by the son of Rupert Murdoch with the ´seed´ money of 1 million. Old Rupert is now -through his son – hedging his bets, thinking that DT may not last ?
Kooshy, I second your opinion very much
irf520,
You don’t see it? 6 LEOs shot last night alone (2 fatally). The revolution and the SJWs say LEOs are the enemy. This is more than just virtue signaling. This is a surging total breakdown of the structures of our society. It may have started with mere virtue signaling, but that has now translated into “righteous” action.
This is only the beginning. A lot of people are going to keep on hand waving it all away until it appears on their doorstep; at which point it will be too late. That and they think if they virtue signal hard enough, the mob will spare them. Dismissal of the situation is faulty thinking, IMO.
EO,
“Tyler was right.”
Future battle cry, warning, or statement of grief?
Perhaps it depends on the speaker.
I am not a native English speaker but your last sentence doesn’t appear to me to be Good English.
“Improvements” of the spelling have been devised long ago:
For example, in Year 1 that useless letter “c” would be dropped to be replased either by “k” or “s”, and likewise “x” would no longer be part of the alphabet. The only kase in which “c” would be retained would be the “ch” formation, which will be dealt with later. Year 2 might reform “w” spelling, so that “which” and “one” would take the same konsonant, wile Year 3 might well abolish “y” replasing it with “i” and Iear 4 might fiks the “g/j” anomali wonse and for all.
Jenerally, then, the improvement would kontinue iear bai iear with Iear 5 doing awai with useless double konsonants, and Iears 6-12 or so modifaiing vowlz and the rimeining voist and unvoist konsonants. Bai Iear 15 or sou, it wud fainali bi posibl tu meik ius ov thi ridandant letez “c”, “y” and “x” — bai now jast a memori in the maindz ov ould doderez — tu riplais “ch”, “sh”, and “th” rispektivli.
Fainali, xen, aafte sam 20 iers ov orxogrefkl riform, wi wud hev a lojikl, kohirnt speling in ius xrewawt xe Ingliy-spiking werld.
Eric Newhill,
“I think there is plenty to keep you busy in your promised land.”..
for all these bleeding hearts in the USA and elsewhere, one should think of people like Rachel Corrie, who peacefully demonstrated and was run over by a bulldozer… do we hear about her from her mother, like we do with the victim in Charlottesville ? I am asking rethorically.
The pattern I have been seeing for some time now, is some group is creating a color revolution in the United States. You can see the same tactics being used again and again. The coordination of action and message. The ability to stay on message. The organization and resources being made available to create situations and the organization to control the message that is presented after the event. The events being managed/staged to create a strong visual image for broadcast, that in turn creates a strong emotional response.
I believe the only ones talking about a CW and death squads are guys like Tyler. Few on the left want a revolution. Who is advocating burning it all down? Possibly Bannon.
Tyler – let’s reckon up our assets:-
Cronies on a roll. Progressives on a roll. Constitutional democracy on hold. Identity politics hotting up. Economy dubious.
Not forgetting that our respective sets of progressives constitute a substantial proportion of our fellow citizens, many wealthy and influential. The more I study progressive doctrine the more I am reminded of those strange enthusiasms of the Middle Ages. The flagellants were supposed to be affected by ergot of rye but I think they just flipped.
Might still come right. We both hope it does. But I now think you were more realistic than I was.
I hope & pray when cooler weather arrives things will calm down. In the meantime
I’ll share a quote from a thread I stumbled upon on MSNBC following an interview
of the current editor of BreitBart: “I voted for Trump but it’s looking like I’m
going to be getting Jeb Bush.”
I’ve cast some bronze, the heat from the open hearth, sometimes the liquid metal
flying back @ you, all the spurling in need of hours & hours of chiseling/grinding;
it’s not easy. I’m in awe of so much of the delicate detail especially in the flowing equestrian bridles of many of the statutes. Much of the craftsmanship is superb.
What will stand upon the empty pedestals after the purge? Abstract forms? MLK?
Obama? I wonder if the foundries are already accepting orders.
Eric Newhill @159,
You’re loosing the argument and your temper and thus your post becomes ad hominem. I’d say that I’ve read enough of jdledell’s posts so I disagree with your point entirely about jdledell.
Madison Mayor Paul Soglin orders removal of Confederate monuments at Forest Hill Cemetery
http://www.wiscnews.com/news/state-and-regional/article_b07c8fbd-90fe-5997-a85d-544e241d9d9c.html
A memorial plaque at the Confederate Rest section of the Near West Side cemetery was removed Wednesday afternoon.
“It described the 140 people buried there as “valiant Confederate soldiers” and “unsung heroes.” The privately funded plaque, which rested on a granite structure, said the soldiers were buried in the Union state after surrendering in a battle and dying at Camp Randall as prisoners of war.”
The jihadi’s also destroyed the monuments of British soldiers who died in North Afirca in World War II. I do not see any difference in or justification for either of these acts.
walker
The belief that the ancestors of Southerners were honorable men and that they should be revered. pl
ToniL,
You are clueless, and not only because you are disputing Eric’s spot on accessment of (((jdledell))).
An ad hom fallacy is “You are stupid, so you are wrong.” It is not “You are stupid, here is HOW you are wrong”. That is simply blending rhetoric with diadetic and is totally fine.
(((Jdledell))) is indeed another globalist dual nationalist with no loyalties to the US, who wants to virtue signal and engage in Talmudic arguing of black into white. And you’re a cry baby dork trying to language police.
Nancy,
Because that is what is likely to happen if the side that riots because it doesn’t get its way (your side) doesn’t knock it off and stop trying to create Year Zero of human history.
You think when this thing kicks off and the Alt Left reckons “OH CRAP THEY ARE USING GUNS AND INFANTRY TACTICS AND WE CANT MOB PEOPLE ANYMORE” that the other side, the Deploreables, are going to say “Just funnin yah! Let’s go back to the status quo of you guys getting to obey the law when you wanna!”
Cause honestly, that’s what I think you really think. I don’t think you have a clue how things build and build until they blow, and once this thing gathers momentum you’ve got 70 years of cultural Marxism to purge through. It will be ugly, and the tragedy is it will be unnecessary but the Left couldn’t stop dreaming of utopia. Instead they find Hell.
I’m reminded of of Pilate’s parting words to Christ in The Last Temptation: “You people should go count the skulls for yourselves. But no, you won’t, will you?”
EO,
I want things to settle down, but they won’t barring a miracle. The two ideologies can’t coexist.
This explains it aptly enough why. Start at 1:15 until about 2:15.
https://youtu.be/NyeTaXv6o4Y
I don’t even have a clue what you are talking about. Who exactly is coming for me? The only ones who seems to want a revolution ate those who think like you. I don’t even know who the SJW are, however they don’t scare me as much as those like you who so want another war to fight do.
Of course you have no reason to ask. Actually my husband was born in New Zealand like your wife. X
#172 NancyK
IMO, Bannon works for the Israelis.
optimax,
I was quoting another commentor. War didn’t bind us too well in the 60’s (either centrury).
Nancy,
What Tyler says is a warning. What the alt-left is doing is instigation. One Missouri State Senator openly called for the assasination of the president. What is that if not a call for revolution?
https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/news/missouri-state-senator-calls-for-assassination-of-trump/vi-AAqgkQX
http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/govt-and-politics/missouri-governor-joins-call-for-expulsion-of-senator-who-hoped/article_0064e426-b5c1-5a61-960b-00875cbc5c58.html
Vincent,
That’s a rather common arguement. The CEO of Google is going to tell us what the citizens of the various States should do, or just the Southern ones? Well, actually that’s what he’s doing right now and he’s got lots of company. When they get done with the bronze and marble they’ll move on to the paper thing called the Constitution.
I have no military experience/knowledge/appreciation of military culture.
What do those in this Committee who do have those qualities have to say about Sherman’s March to the Sea/Scorched Earth policy?
In a coffee shop conversation last week my interlocutors assured me that, “The goal of war is to win, by any means necessary.”
What I have come to appreciate from this forum is that there is nobility in battles that are well-fought, even if lost; and like my high school principal impressed upon us — there is more dignity in playing well and losing than in winning at any cost.
Should Sherman’s March to the Sea be condemned (far moreso than Robert E Lee)?
184 Fred
I know you were quoting someone else. People are easily persuaded to go to war and coalesce around leader but turn against it when it goes too long, ex. VN and Iraq II.
Several articles and editorials have been written asking for moral leadership from Trump in response to the C’ville protest. He is not the Pope, and given the moral failings of past Presidents, I don’t know why the media continues this framing. But The President could not stay silent. I agree with PT and others that Trumps’ tweets are undisciplined and his press conferences need to stay as scripted as possible. But the left is in full support of violent repression of free speech at this point, where now we have Johns Hopkins professors writing opinion pieces in Bezos’ Blog calling for violence in the streets. This follows the repression of conservative voices on social media. This will not end with CW statues; the SPLC, the Dem party, and the media will milk this distraction as long as they can because they do not have coherent policy to put forward to help their base.
I can’t tell if the Left participants here (and often elsewhere) are being purposefully disingenuous (Why I declare! I don’t know any SJWs. Nope. No sir. Don’t even know what means….We don’t want Trump removed by hook or crook…We don’t want violence, the tension in the country is your fault because you won’t sit down and compromise…No one on the left is enacting racist policy calling for a total revolution including the removal of whites from societal and cultural leadership. It’s all in your paranoid head….etc, etc).
Or if they are so thoroughly indoctrinated that they actually believe what they say; internal and external contradictions and all.
I’d rather it be the former as that means there could be hope to salvage them and society. They could be made to learn to mind their own business and leave the rest of us alone. But I fear it is the latter. In which case they are crusaders and they must impose on the rest of us and, sadly, Tyler is right. There are two main ideologies now prominent in the country – two kinds of people – that simply cannot co-exist.
Dr, Puck #109.
That is some poor logic -According to you; Obama is black. Obama’s brother says he (Obama) was born in Africa. Trump said Obama was born in Africa and therefore can’t be POTUS. Therefore Trump = racist.
It works this way too – Obama is white, puts vinegar on French fries and ends sentences with “eh?”. Obama’s brother says he (Obama) was born in Canada. Trump said Obama was born in Canada and therefore can’t be POTUS. Therefore Trump = racist? Nope…doesn’t work.
But this does. Africa is a continent not a race. A physical geography that contains no US states or territories. Therefore, anyone born there cannot be POTUS per the law of the land. Just as Canada is a country physical geography and not a race anyone born there cannot be POTUS per the law of the land.
That people from Africa tend to be dark skinned is incidental to the equation. You want to make it central, but there is no logical reason for doing so.
This is an example of why we cannot compromise with the Left. When we cede our rationality to people that have none and who are simultaneously plagued with persistent delusions, the whole country gets stupider and crazier.
Nancy (#181),
“They don’t scare me as much as those like you who so want another war to fight do.”
See Colonel Lang’s comment #132, Analysis vs. Advocacy. In my comment #65, you thought my analysis and position were so well stated, but apparently only insofar as you thought that it advocated for your views. Now that I’ve corrected that misconception, I’m the warmonger. Think of it like so:
Me: “Nancy, you smoke too much. It’s a bad idea. If you keep doing that, very bad things are going to happen to you.”
You: “AK, you must want very bad things to happen to me.”
Get it? I have a 10-month old son and I’m building what seems like a very beautiful family. I’d like that family to be able to grow and prosper in a stable society founded on a sound free market economy and robust individual freedoms. Civil war wouldn’t provide very well for that, now would it? And neither would a hard left turn to Marxist socialism.
SJW=Social Justice Warrior. You know who they are, but you may not really know what they’re about. If you don’t think their ultimate aim is to deconstruct the very political and social structures that guarantee your civil liberties, starting with free speech, you should read a little more closely into their rhetoric. The “tyrannical patriarchy” and the “oppressive regime” that they would wish to see dismantled is traditional American society itself and its attendant political foundations, including that remarkable piece of human endeavor called the Constitution of the United States of America.
You’d do well to delve into the saga of Bill #C-16 in Canadian politics. At the behest of far Left SJWs, Canadian parliament has just enacted a law that provides for the compelled usage of up to 78 completely artificial gender pronouns, non-compliance with which falls under the punishments of existing hate crime laws. This is compelled speech! It’s hard to argue that there is a more insidious threat to a free and functioning democracy, including mere proscribed speech.
And just in case you think that’s a uniquely Canadian phenomenon, similar laws are very close, if not already on the books, at the municipal level in NYC.
My point all along is that the Left is pushing an agenda that runs completely contrary to western liberal democratic principles, and which most Americans will not accept without being forced into it. Once they try force it, that’s when the Tylers of the world step up.
There are more than two ideologies, you are a concrete thinker and cannot see that. I’m not being disingenuous, I haven’t a clue what SJW stands for. I’m not saying I don’t know any, I just don’t know who or what you are referring to. According to my DNA I’m 97% of European descent and I don’t feel unfaired against in our society.
Eric (#190),
The most vocal among them are thoroughly indoctrinated. We have the modern university humanities disciplines to thank for that. The rest, I believe, simply can’t contend with the cognitive dissonance that comes with a totalitarian ideology that veils itself in “justice for the oppressed”, so they just cling to the three-word catch phrase, consequences be damned. Or they’re just terrified of the social shaming and character assassinations that are de rigeur among their cohort these days.
AK at #192: SB219 in California. Here’s some info from Jonathan Turley’s blog:
“The California State Senate is considering a bill that would make it a crime to “willfully and repeatedly” refuse “to use a transgender resident’s preferred name or pronouns” in a public health, retirement or housing institution. State Sen. Scott Wiener (D-San Francisco) has introduced SB 219 with a variety of transgender protections but the pronoun controversy is likely to get the most attention. Violators face a year in jail and a potential $1000 fine.” Although currently limited in scope, critics in CA believe if passed, a more expansive bill will include other venues (e.g., public schools, etc.).
I’ve been watching Jordan Peterson’s struggle since last fall……the abuse he has taken from students is similar to what the Evergreen professors dealt with, only Dr. Peterson has got a spine and can debate a special snowflake into a wet puddle.
Nancy,
IMO, there are only two fundamental ideologies.
1. People who respect freedom and the ability to pursue that in whatever way each sees fit, under the civil liberties and other frameworks enumerated in the Constitution. Such people recognize that while not perfect and often resulting in unequal outcomes, it is the best system we have for maintaining a *free* society. Such people place a high emphasis on personal agency and responsibility. They respect the freedom of others to live their lives they way they want to.
2. People that are moralizing prudish busy-bodies that see unequal *outcomes* as evidence of an “unfair” system and who, therefore, wish to impose their ideas of some other way of being on the rest of us so as to achieve not equality of freedom under the law, but equality of outcomes. To repeat for emphasis, it is not equality of freedom that they care about, but equality of outcome. Wherever they see unequal outcome they blame systematic conspiracies, intentional or accidental, and they seek to correct these, by force of governmental and cultural impositions, so as to achieve “social justice” (hence SJW/social justice warrior). Social justice = equality of outcome. These people also may be referred to as “progressives”. Progressives, by definition, want to move (progress) beyond where we currently are to something believed to be better. This better society is often described with utopian flourish. It’s all about change. They seek change because they see social injustice everywhere and because they want to be savior heroes of the down trodden and believe that, once seen that way, they can become the enlightened philosopher kings and queens running the world according to their superior knowledge. Such people do not value personal agency and responsibility very much. Rather, they see agency-less “victims” and willful persecutors in need of SJW intervention via the governmental and cultural apparatus. These people have little respect for the rights of others to live their lives they want to.
Then….ok…you got me….there are three types…..The SJW people are followed about by a bunch of free-loaders who have got the victimhood act down and seek to benefit from the SJWs zeal for equality of outcomes. The freeloaders in turn empower the SJWs.
Now, all three types can have a wide variety of flavors, but those are the basic main types.
In reply to @190 Newhill:
The NSC memo that caused the stir a few weeks ago has finally leaked:
POTUS & Political Warfare
May 2017
http://foreignpolicy.com/2017/08/10/heres-the-memo-that-blew-up-the-nsc/
Not as over the top as the author implies, well maybe a little. Think it is a fairly accurate portrayal of the state of things regarding Trump.
BTW: The Breitbart/Israeli campaign to dump McMaster goes on.
AK, I don’t smoke anything, and I have 5 children and 5 grandchildren that I want to see grow up also. Thanks for telling me what SJW meant.
There is one more group the religious that try and force their views on everyone else in the mistaken belief God or Allah loves only them and everyone else must die or go to help.
Please, next time when you try to post something as a fact, do spend at least a minute to check it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanns_Johst
Cvillereader
Is it true as Louis Gohmert said on TeeVee todsay that some BLM and Klansmen were transported to the Charlottesville “massacre” in the same buses? pl
Do you have a ICD code for “Cluster B personality disorder with a focal malignant narcissism, with clinically significant antisocial, sociopathic, and paranoid elements.”