“Captured Kremlin soldiers have alleged to Ukrainian forces that their commanders are slaughtering wounded Russian troops rather than seeking medical treatment, Mirror reported.
The soldiers claimed that a Russian lieutenant colonel has killed multiple injured troops. Recalling one account, the prisoners said the lieutenant colonel asked one soldier if he could walk, shooting him dead after he replied that he could not.
“It was a young man; he was wounded,” a soldier explained to Ukrainian journalist Volodymyr Zolkin. “He was on the ground. He was asked if he could walk, so he was shot dead with a gun.”
Another prisoner jumped in: “The most important thing — this wasn’t a single case.
“He shot four or five like this,” a third captured soldier explained, adding that the “young men” could have been taken care of.
The news follows multiple reports since the beginning of the conflict that Russia has used mobile crematoriums to hide evidence of war crimes in Ukraine, according to The Hill.
Pavlo Kyrylenko, the governor of Ukrainian-occupied territories in Donetsk, said that Russian troops were destroying the bodies in an attempt to hide “evidence of genocide.”
“They are using mobile crematoriums and mobile cremation machines and, also, taking people out, taking bodies of the dead in the street and the dead from collapsing buildings,” Kyrylenko said.
“They’re hiding since the emergence of the evidence of war crimes in Bucha and the evidence of genocide. They’re now hiding the evidence,” he added.”
Comment: Some of you, actually most of you, in your enthusiasm for the Russian cause seem to have missed the fact that the Russians are also using foreign fighters; Wagner, Syrians, etc. Is the state of man-officer relations this bad? It was that bad in Afghanistan where only the fear of the mujahideen’s reaction to a Soviet prisoner kept, IMO, many more Soviet soldiers from defecting from an “army” in which they were held in contempt by their own “leaders.” History seems to be repeating itself. pl
Captured Russians: Kremlin Commanders ‘Shooting Their Own Wounded’ | Newsmax.com
There are many reports of the neo nazi’s surrendering. Not a good morale booster for Ukraine but we will all find out together how this plays out. It does appear however it won’t play out the way anyone assumed because it’s beginning to impact other countries with nothing to do with it. Who’s tasked with putting those fires out? Looks like nobody.
HEnce teh kneecapping video during the Russian collapse at Kiev.
Since I’ve been critical of the Russian war effort recently in some of my posts, allow me please to go on record saying that I do not endorse these stories at all, I regard them as a low form of war propaganda, yellow journalism or what have you. There is to my mind a by now well established pattern of atrocity stories emerging consequent to Ukrainian setbacks and or the perceived need by their benefactors the US and UK to increase funding and weapon supplies. In this case my guess is that it’s in response to the Azovstal surrender and additional fears that if Russia has achieved it’s land corridor goal (eastern republics to Crimea/Kherson) then prevailing sentiments might turn to a negotiated settlement rather than ongoing battle. I thank you for the opportunity to clear my conscience by saying so.
f&l
Just another pacifist bot.
Lol.
A lifetime spent in agriculture.
Debt is more real in the private sector.
F&L –
I read the story of a Russian officer shooting his wounded before the Azovstal evacuation.
BS
I have no reason to lie about it Mark. The first I saw of some Ukrainian troops leaving Azovstal was back on the 15th I believe. There was a twitter account of a Russian wounded soldier being shot by the unit commander a day or two prior to that. Plus three weeks ago there was a story about that happening up near Bucha in late March before the retreat. Reportedly it was done not by a unit commander but by Chechen Kadyrovsty squads performing triage on those wounded too far gone to be medevacked.
I’m not saying the stories are true. But it’s not unheard of in wars in the past by many armies. No matter whether Russian or any other country.
But believe what you want.
One thought, nothing turns a population against war like seeing the actual brutality of war. And nothing shows the brutality of war quite like wounded returning from the battlefield missing limbs and faces, burned beyond hope, etc. A population can tolerate war as long as it’s at a distance, not too close to home.
On the other hand, if the office corp are professional soldiers and the “enlisted” are all conscripts, there may be a great deal of contempt for the average soldier. Medical treatment can be scare and very high value. I doubt they are shooting wounded professional soldiers. Conscripts may not be so lucky.
powderfinger1
The Russian Army is descended directly from the Tsar’s Army and the Soviet Army in which the officers were always the people who counted, there wera ans are no career NCOs and the troops were just cannon fodder. You people are amazingly ignoranat.
This is a ludicrous story. Even if you’re correct that only officers matter, career NCOs are nonexistent, and troops are “just cannon fodder” the fact remains that there is precisely zero benefit to shooting your own men. Ineffectives are turned into corpses and that benefits the unit — or the commander — how? What lesson would be taught? Are we to believe that Russian officers are so pig ignorant about the basic principles of leadership that they’ll resort to murdering subordinates?
It’s just more of the “Russian as repulsive, heartless Untermenschen” nonsense. On a par with German atrocities in Belgium in WWI. Yes, the Hun. The Bosch. Vicious brutes to a man.
My life would be measured in weeks if not hours were I to execute troops under my command in the US Army. Are we to believe that there’s some kind of slavic brain algorithm that makes inexplicable, pointless conduct SOP for the whole Russian army.
Give me a break.
Richard Ong,
You’d be quickly arrested, tried by court martial and spend the rest of your life in Leavenworth if you executed troops in the US Army. The Russian Army is not the US Army. It’s a very different beast. It now amazes me how superbly their MOD and Foreign Office did in Syria after seeing what they’ve both done in Ukraine.
Richard Ong
You are projecting your own mentality onto these non-leaders.
About conscripts and the Russian army: People don´t realize how much Russia has softened. Yes the Stalin army was indescribably brutal towards its´soldiers and condition in the Russian army in the Nineties were still very harsh for conscripts. Back then general conscription was in theory only as everybody tried to evade the draft by bribing, false certificates, simulating all kinds of diseases et al. Under Putin conditions for conscripts improved a lot. Some time in the oughts – I had trouble believing it but got inpeccable confirmation – the army even gave free sim cards to conscripts so that mothers could phone their sons and check that they were ok and not being hazed. Today the old problems are gone. Everybody serves as it not half as harsh as it used to be. On the other hand there are no Russian soldiers anymore who will be content with just a bag of sun flower seeds and then walk to Berlin. Nor will they storm some hill and then be cut down in their hundreds. The Russian army has softened immensely. Just like the whole country. I used to run an outdoors business in central Asia and would mention to my Siberian colleagues how we have to constantly physical standards as clients can´t take the most basic discomforts anymore. They have exactly the same problem especially with Muscovites and clients from other big cities in the European part of Russia.
After all these preliminaries let me state that there is no way officers in todays Russian army will shoot wounded soldiers.
Tom67
BS. Good try though.
I have my own experience to inform me, of course, but that is irrelevant. There is simply the logic of the officer’s alleged action.
The wounded soldier was not being insubordinate or threatening good order and discipline. Nothing indicates that the soldier had not done his job or done anything to harm his unit. Thus, there was no reason whatsoever to execute him.
Your position that there is some kind of a cancerous part of every Russian officer’s thinking and that the ethos of the Russian army that makes casual, pointless execution of a soldier something of no importance is absurd. You generalize this picture and make no effort to determine if there were something aberrant about the man.
Russians are not insensate animals who would be indifferent to the murder of a comrade and only an officer with a depraved mind with perform the mental calculus “wounded, respectful soldier, volcanic fury of the rest of the unit sure to follow . . . ok to execute.”
I am somewhat sceptical of this report, it reminds me of Saddams mobile biological labs and his wood chippers.
How does one go about questioning our endless involvement in land wars in the Old World, without being accused of siding with the other side?
Given the record,Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, to name just the larger ones, what have we accomplished, other than enriching the military industrial complex Eisenhower warned us about, the year I was born.
Cheney, one of the family of Wormtongues we seem to empower, is on record as saying Reagan proved “debt doesn’t matter.”
As anyone with any actual sense would add, “until it does.”
Sociopathic idiots are still idiots. As Talleyrand put it, “It’s worse than criminal, it’s stupid.”
john merryman
Go hide under the bed.
Pat,
Why do you equate anyone who thinks war is more than just machismo with being afraid?
John+Merryman
You are either afraid or would not fight for your own country. Which do you prefer?
Pat,
That is a pretty limited selection.
I grew up on a farm, raising horses and cattle and my most fundamental distinction is whether something is healthy, or not and I do not view the management of this country as healthy.
In life we evolved a brain in order to decide what direction to go. Often we make mistakes. It’s called “trial and error.”
Though if we just double down on the bad decisions, it might pay off in the end, or it’s just good money after bad and we win a Darwin award.
Personally I’ve had a lot of people question my ambition in life, because I don’t follow the script, which is, I suppose, having my patriotism questioned. So fair enough.
The U.S. has has a couple centuries of growth and, not having cancelled the laws of nature, is setting itself up for a significant reset.
Somehow though, I’ve yet to be convinced going shooting up people in some third world country amounts to “defending my own,” as opposed to profiting our corporate overlords. Whose patriotism seems to amount to worshiping the pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents.
These people lack that luxury.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYpI05Rhcg4&t=10s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFumhoegdUE&t=1s
Translations available in closed captions
William S. Lind, American conservative author, described as being aligned with paleoconservatism (whatever that is) sees a way to end the Ukrainian bloodbath. Far fetched?? Comments appreciated.
https://www.traditionalright.com/playing-with-nuclear-war-and-some-advice-for-my-friends-in-sweden/
That contains so much garbage it is worthless and I am not going to even bother with the ridiculous details. I have noticed that too many people are posting mere fantasies. The reality is that the Russians seriously miscalculated, poorly executed and have committed serious war crimes and Russians not yet born will pay the price for it. Both Russia and China will learn and probably in a costly way that you can’t control information like you used to, but some will have credibility and many others will not. The first clue that the author of the above garbage does not know much about Sweden is that Swedes know Gamla Stan.
On a Russian talk show, a retired colonel stuns his colleagues by pointing out that the invasion isn’t going well.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/17/world/europe/russian-state-tv-ukraine-invasion.html
A military analyst on one of Russian state television’s most popular networks left his fellow panelists in stunned silence on Monday when he said that the conflict in Ukraine was deteriorating for Russia, giving the kind of honest assessment that is virtually banished from the official airwaves.
“The situation for us will clearly get worse,” Mikhail M. Khodaryonok, a retired colonel and a conservative columnist on military affairs, said during the “60 Minutes” talk-show program on the Rossiya network.
It was a rare moment of frank analysis in a country where criticizing the war effort can result in a prison sentence and broadcasters have generally adhered to the Kremlin’s talking points.
he problems that Mr. Khodaryonok referred to, sometimes obliquely, included low morale, the array of Western countries aligned against Russia and the amount of fighters and matériel that Ukraine was assembling.
“We are in total geopolitical isolation and the whole world is against us, even if we don’t want to admit it,” said Mr. Khodaryonok, noting that Russia’s “resources, military-political and military-technical, are limited.”
Give your grad all of The Times.
News, plus Cooking, Games and Wirecutter.
He urged Russians not to take “informational sedatives.” The clip was first highlighted by Francis Scarr of BBC Monitoring, which tracks Russian broadcasts. Mr. Khodaryonok did not immediately respond to a request for further comment.
Aside from questioning Russia’s position, it was a remarkable moment because Mr. Khodaryonok noted that Ukraine seemed to have momentum. Russians mistakenly tended to try to extrapolate the problems of a few soldiers in the Ukrainian Army to denigrate its whole military, he said. In reality, they were ready to field a million men if given sufficient weapons, were highly motivated and would be receiving an increasing quantity of military support from the United States and Europe, he added.
News talk shows in Russia are generally a shouting match, with the half dozen panelists each vying to drown out the others. On this episode, however, the other panelists stood in stunned silence. Only Olga Skabeyeva, the host, who religiously follows the Kremlin line, interrupted with official talking points in sometimes tense exchanges.
She attempted to point out that support from China and India was just as good as support from Europe, that perhaps professional soldiers were superior to conscripts and that Russia “had no choice,” the standard Kremlin justification for its invasion by presenting Ukraine as a threat.
Mr. Khodaryonok seemed to be careful not to say anything openly critical of the Russian side, repeatedly stressing that the entire situation was “not normal.” When it came to morale issues, for example, he reached back into history and noted that Marx and Lenin had said that high morale was an important factor for battlefield success. He did not refer directly to recent indications that the Russian Army is suffering from morale problems.
In March, Russia criminalized denouncing its war effort, including even referring to it as a war rather than a “special military operation.”
Mr. Khodaryonok has been critical of the Russian military operations in the past. In an unusual column published in early February, before the invasion, he cautioned against it, saying that it would not be the cake walk that many Russian analysts expected and that it was not in Russia’s “national interests.”
He predicted accurately that the Ukrainians would fight hard to defend their country and that the West would provide extensive arms. “There will be no blitzkrieg in Ukraine,” he wrote in Nezavisimoye Voyennoye Obozreniye, a Russian weekly newspaper supplement on military matters.
Even earlier, about a year after Russia dispatched its military to Syria in 2015 to prop up President Bashar al-Assad, he wrote a column for an internet news service, Gazeta.Ru, suggesting that the Syrian Army was an unworthy ally, pointing out its lack of military success and corruption.
Concerning the war in Ukraine, however, he has previously praised the Russian effort.
In comments on his Telegram channel posted only a week ago, he said that military theorists for years to come would study the special operation as something “unique.” He said Russian advances in the eastern Donbas region were due to the discipline, training, morale of its military, as well as the effectiveness of its artillery. He also repeated the unfounded Russian claim that the Ukrainian side fostered Nazis.
Al – you write:
“He also repeated the unfounded Russian claim that the Ukrainian side fostered Nazis.”
The first line of this article by ABC News (the Australian state broadcaster) is:
“The first thing you notice as you walk through the corridors of the Azov battalion’s base in Mariupol are the swastikas.”
Are the Russians exaggerating Ukraine’s Nazi problem for their own propaganda purposes? Certainly. Are the charges completely unfounded? I don’t think so.
People have managed to forget that in the run up to world war II a lot of the ruling elite (in the UK/US/Canada) thought the Nazis were not that bad because they expected the Nazis to fight the bolsheviks for them. In my opinion the British thought themselves quite clever to have arranged things such that such a clash was “inevitable”. The British aristocracy (with the exception of Churchill) were perfectly willing to sacrifice six million Jews to effect regime change in the USSR.
No one before or during WWII was able to predict the future or to know what was actually happening. Hence no one could be said to be willing to “sacrifice six million Jews,” etc., etc., because no knew about the camps, the numbers of people in them, the reason for their being there, and the reason for and numbers of their deaths. Arguably, no one knows the true story about that still. But that’s another story.
Fascism did indeed appeal to a lot of leaders and citizens in the West because of its seeming efficiency and effective economic policies. Rule by enlightened minorities of technocrats caused many a Westerner to swoon with delight, a feature of our elites that has come down to us today without alteration. Hitler was Time’s man of the year IIRC. Postwar demonization came later.
I agree w/you. It is inconceivable that any one would be willing to sacrifice 6MM human lives for elimination of communism. But why are we are still talking about Nazis in Ukraine? After WW I some Ukrainians hoped for independence. It was not to be. Russian Bolsheviks, many Jews, fought Ukrainians b/t 1918-22. They got four more years of war but no independence. Just 10 years later Bolsheviks, again many Jews, brought Holodomore to Ukraine and the murder of 6MM kulaks. Why would any one be surprised to think that some Ukrainians, by 1941, thought fighting along side Nazis would help them get rid of the Communists who had so ravaged Ukraine? I wasn’t there but its my guess that thus was born Stephan Bandera and the Ukrainian Nazis. The year is 2022. The Nazis lost 77 years ago. Something remains. The belief of supremacy of the “great Slav”, the Russian, over all others on their borders remains. There since the Romanovs, Communists, Putin, it predates NATO, neocons, 2014, and gas and oil pipelines. There will not be peace in eastern Europe until the Russian gives up his notion of supremacy over the “others”. Behind all the theories of “why this war” lies a simple truth. In the minds of some powerful Russians, the idea of restoring 1914 will not go away.
Bandera was a Western Ukrainian. His beef was first and foremost with the Poles and the Jews. He has not experienced much from the Russians firsthand
I’m no student of Ukraine but it does seem simplistic to demonize Bandera. The point of the movie “The Sorrow and the Pity” was that “democracy” was entirely discredited in the interwar years and that people of good will had a choice between fascism or communism. Ukrainians suffered terribly under the Russians though the role of Jews in the NKVD during the Holodomor made it not simply a purely “Russian” operation. Like many other Europeans, those who fought under Bandera were happy to enlist in a great anti-Soviet cause. The Germans actively aided the Finns in the Winter War and there were friendly relations between the two countries but that has never resulted in its being said that the Finns were “Nazis,” which seems to be the practice in Ukraine now v-a-v the Baneristas.
I’ve read an argument that the sense of racial superiority to the Slav is alive and well in Svoboda and the Azov types. I was not aware of any Russian/slavic superiority beliefs. I don’t see that at all in anything the Russians are saying or doing.
Richard Ong,
Yes the hard core Svoboda and Azov types do feel Ukrainian Slavs are superior to Russian Slavs. But they don’t think Russian culture and Russian identity should be eliminated. Many Russian pundits, and Putin himself, expressed the need to erase Ukraine as a culture and identity. Putin has said that Ukraine is not a national identity at all, the country 404 approach.
James,
Tha’s quite a dated article, 2015. Are you implying that those that were holding out in the “tunnels” were Nazis? All, or some?
Andrei Martyanov skewers Khodaryonok here:
http://smoothiex12.blogspot.com/2022/05/larry-johnson-and-hyperbole-mikhail.html
KH –
Regarding the “massive military reform of Russian Armed Forces” that Andrei claims Khodaryonok missed:
those reforms were met with strong opposition, which is why Shoigu overturned them.
Andrei may have tried to skewer Khodaryonok. But he failed miserably. Except of course for a few Putin groupies and Shoigu uberfans.
Hmmm, mobile crematoriums….
The Russian army processes their dead in Rostov on Don, a facility that has special units to fulfill that awful task. The unit also has a team of pathologists. There may be others further north but the idea of following them around in mobile crematoriums sounds highly suspect to me.
Steve,
The mobile crematoriums are real, but I’ve only heard of them being used around Mariupol. It doesn’t seem to be an efficient way to deal with the dead on a massive scale. Given that so many Russian dead were left behind, there’s a different calculus between how the Russians treat their fallen and how we treat ours. The Russians won’t even accept hundred of their dead gathered by the Ukrainians and stored in refrigerated boxcars.
TTG,
Where are you hearing this?
I’ve been inside the processing centre in the Rostov military hospital – which is not too long a journey from Mariupol – and I’ve seen the process with my own eyes: it’s meticulous and it’s respectful, including their dealings with families.
I can see only one reason for having the crematoriums, that being that mechanized armies tend to not have bodies intact when killed inside a transporter of some sort. The bodies could be incinerated and remains delivered to families either in a sealed coffin (that was done in the Chechen wars) or the ashes can be sent instead.
Many of the remains I’ve seen recovered from armored personnel carriers were simply not recognizable as human and were often a mix of who was inside the vehicle when it was attacked. In Rostov these were bagged, placed in a zinc coffin, and a uniform laid over them. The coffin was then sealed, placed in a wooden box, and delivered to the family.
There’s no way to do this that doesn’t cause pain to the families but the young men tasked carried out their duties with impeccable respect and dignity. Having the families view the interior of that coffin would be nothing short of barbaric.
The British defence minister should know this and not attempt to use it to satiate his hatred of the Russian people, including the fallen. His propaganda points are, to say the least, distasteful but only what I expect from a Guards officer who really do treat their men like shit.
Steve,
That makes sense about the crematoriums. Back in 1976, I was told by an old infantry NCO that I should thank my lucky stars for being light infantry instead of mech infantry. He said all that’s left of those poor bastards when a TOW or Dragon round hit was burnt oatmeal and ketchup. A box of ashes is preferable to a crispy critter. That story about the hundreds of dead Russians in refrigerated boxcars was even featured on 60 Minutes with plenty of film footage.
Here is the Journalist’s YouTube page. I guess he specializes in ‘interviewing’ Russian prisoners of war. Obviously the Geneva Convention at is not a factor is not a factor at this point.
https://youtube.com/c/VolodymyrZolkin
cofer,
According to the disclaimer, all POWs gave voluntary permission to be interviewed, filmed and published on the internet. The Geneva Convention doesn’t prohibit that, as long as it really is voluntary.
TTG,
The question is whether, under the control of opposing forces, can their testimony be trusted? Under normal legal circumstances and due to cautions about duress, it would be inadmissible in a court. It’s one thing to film them but entirely another to have them to speak to what we see here. And the same goes for both sides.
Steve,
This isn’t court testimony. It’s soldiers’ stories.
TTG,
This is being treated as testimony. That’s also called propaganda. Should there be a war crimes trial (for which so many are calling) we’ll discover the conditions and admissibility of these allegations.
No thanks. I’d rather hear from these prisoners as to what made them talk, once they make it home, preferably not in a body bag.
I don’t believe the source for this story is credible or that there is independent confirmation. The Mirror seems to specialize in the sensational.
Question for Col. Lang; Given your observation that the Russian Army is descended from the army of the Tsars and USSR, and that anyone not an officer is treated with contempt, how do the Officers maintain discipline?
I would have thought Stalinist brutality doesn’t go very far in these days of high technology and the conscripts are no longer uneducated Asiatic serfs.
walrus,
Discipline is maintained through brutality and absolute control of the necessities of life, even life itself. Haven’t you read any of the accounts of the brutality those young soldiers are subjected to by officers and older enlisted? It’s a criminal racket.
Bullshit TTG.
1) That crap doesn’t apply when said conscript is carrying live ammunition as I was warned at least once.
2) Even if the hazing gets rid of what Chuck Yeager called “weak Sisters” the ones that are left are now “made men”;and will fight accordingly when their blood is up.
walrus,
I’ll see your bullshit and raise you another bullshit.
The Russian Army is nothing like your Army or my Army. The Russian kleptocracy extends far beyond the oligarchs. It’s been characterized since at least the Soviet times by the practice of dedovschina and the rule of the thieves in law (legalized thieves is a better translation). Shoigu’s reform of cutting enlistment from two to one year may have been an effort to lessening the prevalence of dedovschina.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedovshchina
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thief_in_law
The culture of the Russian Army is a mess. Kamil Galeev did another of his rambling threads on this back in March. A former Russian soldier wrote an amplifying article.
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/23/2087585/-More-about-Why-the-Russian-Army-Sucks-Kleptocracy-Abuse-Murder
https://m.dailykos.com/stories/2022/3/25/2087808/-A-response-to-More-about-why-the-Russian-army-sucks
TTG, Thank you for your illuminating reply. I apologise for my frustration and intemperate comment. I need to get out on the water more.
walrus,
No sweat. An occasional bullshit won’t faze me. It keeps me on my toes.
With respect TTG, your bullshit avoids answering the question posed by Walrus’. Kleptocracy & hazing/brutalization is not the issue, the issue is how officers who behave this way stay alive in a combat zone. Maybe they don’t – that may help explain the high casualty rate among Russian officers in Ukraine.
Barbara Ann,
I don’t have a definitive answer for you. I do think the pervasive culture of brutality tends to destroy the young soldiers’ spirits, leaving only passive husks behind. They don’t have the initiative to frag their commanders, nor do they have the initiative to do anything to protect them. They just don’t give a shit. I did hear of one instance where troops in a Russian unit put their commander under the treads of an APC or tank after he ordered them into Ukraine. That’s probably not the only incident.
They went from 2 to 1 to do two things : cut down on draft evasion since 1 yr is less onerous and gets the recruit back in the work force to support family (remember they are serious about improving demographics/birth rates; and – they thought they would transition to professional corps, and the 1 yr draftees would be doing things other than fighting. Draft evasion is fairly widespread. See Anna Politkovskaya’s book “Putin’s Russia” – she has a chapter on dedovschina. My guitar teacher was a Russian who came over in the late 70s, he said the hazing was awful. General Odom mentions it in his book on the destruction of the Soviet military, and at the time commented that it seemed that human life seemed as though it had little or no value to many of the officer class he interacted with. Polifkovskaya’s treatment is damning. The stuff still goes on, there was a torture case last year and the perpetrator was busted due to activist reporting. We’ve had recruits die due to abuse in basic but it’s not nearly on the same scale. In dedovschina it’s the older noncoms who brutalize the freshman, not the officers who are abusive in other ways. Her book is great. It’s in Kindle format IIRC and paperback. Btw, she wasn’t done in by Putin or on his orders, rather by some of the devils she investigated concerning the Chechen wars.
It’s one really powerful book. So much so it’s no wonder people think it got her killed. It was probably a big mistake to title it as she did – the problems she described (covers 90s to ’06) were not his doing.
You project all the way what your military is and has been since ever.
Even Hollywood has shown this, in an edulcorated way.
Anyway, you can not offer any evidence apart from tabloids news, hence you do not have an answer to Barbara Ann´s question, it is easier to catch a liar than a lame man…
The really alternative media still avaialble to the Western population is full of cideos of Russian military sanitary people changing really dirty bandages and taking care of Azovstal surrendered militants and military men, with no distinction in medical attention with reagrd nazis and normla ukrainians.
there is no fact cheking record of any Rusian atorcity, while the Ukrainian nazi battallions´atrocities are recorded by the 2nd report of 2016 by the OSCE.
I must say that you both are making a slim favour to your country, although not ideologically linked, sometimes opponents, I have got to respect and appreciate you thorugh these past years on your possition with regard ISIS and its uses by the US Armed Forces in Syria, Iraq, Lybia and so on.
Apart from other considerations, I got to consider you fair people with a sense of honor.
I must say that transitional consideration has dissapeared in a blow.
I only can describe what you are doing through the whole Russian military operation as low, dirty and dishonest.
A shame, now ban me, and then, go to the church to demonstrate you are the best of Christians, you two.
Dolores,
If you’re waiting for me to cheer on naked aggression by an autocratic Russia, you’ll have a long wait. Even their military performance, apart from the policy of invasion, has been woefully inept. Perhaps their success in Syria is due to a total lack of emotional investment in Syria or the entire region while in Ukraine, they are acting out of wild emotion.
Colonel Khodaryonok is not just a military analyst and columnist. He is a former member of the Russian General Staff. He knows what he is talking about.
Leith,
I for one am interested in what he has to say – just so long as it is not laundered through the NYTimes. Any links to complete writings/interviews of his I would love to know about.
https://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2022-02-03/3_1175_donbass.html
That’s one article by him from march 3 this year. It’s in Russian. My chrome and edge browsers on iphone translate it automatically. Similar Android or Computer browser.
F&L –
I believe that article predates the invasion. It was published on 3 February. The guy was clairvoyant.
Quite right. I glitched on the date format. He wasn’t the only clairvoyant amongst high ranking Russian military officers, not by a long shot. See this appeal. Since you navigated the earlier link above I assume you can translate the Russian. I haven’t the time to find an English version, which in fact appeared soon after this:
http://ooc.su/news/obrashhenie_obshherossijskogo_oficerskogo_sobranija_k_prezidentu_i_grazhdanam_rossijskoj_federacii/2022-01-31-79-0-1
For who he is try first few paragraphs of this:
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2022/02/ukraine-crisis-putin-military-opposition.html
His Russian patriotism is unquestionable and his rank higher than Col Khodaryonok’s.
I found an Eng translation of the letter by Ivashov mentioned in my immediate response to you. See:
https://www.eastviewpress.com/on-the-eve-of-war-appeal-of-the-all-russian-officers-assembly-to-the-president-and-citizens-of-the-russian-federation/
Perhaps better background is provided by this than the Slate piece:
https://thehill.com/opinion/international/593880-a-retired-russian-generals-criticism-may-signal-a-larger-problem-for/
F&L –
Thanks for the Ivashov links. Putin is not going after him for some reason. Perhaps he is not worried about a 78-year old deduzhka? Maybe does not want to stir up the officer corps by defenestrating Ivashov? Or perhaps he has already notified the media to ignore anything further from Ivashov?
Leith,
In response to your 10:35 am May 19 response to me:
Very good question. One possible answer is simply that Ivashov has too much prestige and support within the Russian military for him to do so. Another is that he will or has already set in motions actions to quash Ivashov in ways that are indiscernible to us given the opportunity presented by the man’s advanced age. Another possibility is suggested by material advanced in these links below – the first a lengthy interview in the publication Novayagazeta which is indicated as appearing online on February 12 (Feb 14 for print version). You’ll see he has a thesis by which he compares recent demarches with an ultimatum presentated by the German government to the Danish government in 1940 immediately before an invasion for which they needed a pretext. I don’t think the parallel drawn is entirely apt but that it is made in this way means that the issue can possibly be argued in the future in ways acceptable in international opinions. Sorry again you’ll need to translate the first:
https://novayagazeta.ru/articles/2022/02/12/zabyt-o-voine-kak-o-sposobe-resheniia-voprosa-s-ukrainoi
http://thehistorymanatlarge.blogspot.com/2020/03/the-german-ultimatum-to-denmark-9-april.html?m=1
F&L, Leith
That appeal from the All-Russian Officers Assembly (by Ivashov) is astonishing, I can’t believe I missed it – was is discussed on turopolier.com before? If not IMO it warrants a post all of its own. This excerpt is just extraordinary:
“We believe that Russia’s leadership understands that it is not capable of leading the country out of a systemic crisis, and that this could lead to a popular uprising and a change in power in the country supported by the oligarchy, corrupt officials, a tamed media and the siloviki [law-enforcement and security officials]. Therefore, it decided to promote a policy regarding the final destruction of Russian statehood and the eradication of the country’s native population. And war is the very means that will solve this task so that Russia can retain for a short time its antinational leadership and hold on to the wealth stolen from the people. We cannot think of any other explanation”
The letter is now part of Leonid Ivashov’s wiki btw. I tried to access the link at https://echo.msk.ru/blog/echomsk/2976084-echo/ – footnote #7 on the wiki page – to verify it is real, but got no response from the server. Mark Galeotti in the Moscow Times covered it in English too: https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/07/anti-war-broadside-highlights-nationalist-critique-of-putin-a76280
F&L –
More good links, thanks again.
I agree that the 1940 German ultimatum to Denmark is not entirely apt. IMHO Putin wanted Ukraine because he was envious of the new oil & gas fields in Dnieper-Donetz Basin and in the Black Sea. Sure, he has plenty, but not so easy to extract, and harder to get it to market. Plus he coveted Ukrainian industry as he knew his own was falling apart.
But yes he may have wanted to present his invasion of Ukraine as a way to prevent an imaginary NATO invasion. Both Ivashov and Khodaryonok are a lot more clued in on Putin’s motives than I am. For sure.
I think it’s February 3rd
Wouldn’t be the least bit surprising if Russian officers are having to resort to their side arms to discourage insubordination, but shooting a wounded guy would be bad for morale and likely to prompt an instant retaliation from the wounded guy’s buds.
Might be a muddled truth.
This is very sad and hard to believe especially in the year 2022 where even the smallest bits of information can circle around world for everyone to absorb, but honestly I’m not shocked to be to bear witness to the seemingly endless brutality and dark nature of the criminals bunkering in Kremlin at the moment. Sounds like there is no ‘red-line’ for Putin and co. What’s next? launching a low-yield nuke on Mariupol or Kherson just to let the world know how damn evil Putin and co. could be? I think the midget at Kremlin is so desperate to spread pure terror around that almost makes me to believe he actually ‘is’ capable of nuking Ukraine, personality-wise. Before the war, the midget’s agenda was to earn the respect of fellow tin-pot dictators and to inspire them to follow his example, but now it has devolved into creating terror and fear especially among Ukraine-adjacent countries. Recent history assures us that brutal dictators when they fall, they fall so hard and so fast that it is spectacular to watch.
The world is full of tin-pot dictators and wanna be tin-pot dictators. I look forward to their future.
Polish Janitor,
I thought the Poles hated all Russians and not just their leadership. When did this change?
Well, ‘the Pols’ will always have ‘deep reservations’ about the nation-state of Russia because of its actions, particularly the Russian polity whose masks is off now, I mean like REALLY OFF. Just ugly, rabid and demon-possessed. Sometimes I wonder to myself, if Putin the midget and the perpetual no.2 Dmitry Medvydev and their toadies (i.e. oligarchs) orbiting the midget were the best the Russians could ever do in terms of political representation since the end of the Cold War and selection as leadership…I mean, of course the midget et.al would never have allowed any kind of half-robust civil society to emerge that would question the nature of Putin-led political worldview that would eventually give more options for the average Russian citizens to choose from as the protectors of their rights, not massive violators. The WWII and Cold War are back-to-back examples and reality-checks not just for Poland, but the Baltic states and former Soviet satellites to always be ‘mindful’ of the Russian political elites’ malignant ambitions. This is like the law of nature that governs Russian polity, there’s nothing one could do about it, like gravity, it’s just there and someday kicks in no matter what, until real change of heart and political culture of the Russian elites take place this natural law will always be in place, period. In terms of people-to-people perception, Pols and Russians, Russians and Lithuanians, Russians and Latvians, Russians and Ukraianians, Russians and Germans, etc. it’s all fins and there’s no problem, we have been living next to each other since forever and will remain attached to each other’s destinies and concerns and all that stuff. Russian people are some of the best people to have booze with, although they are tough on the outside, on the inside they are real alive and fun. But let me tell you this, the very first people who are being brutalized and pillaged by the midget in his paper-castle are the very people of Russia. I can’t stress this enough. They are the first in line terms of being violated on many fronts. By whose permission the midget and his moving-wallets (i.e. the oligarchs) steal people’s wealth and build mansions for their mistresses in Switzerland and Florida and Manhattan and Tel-Aviv? There are more than $200 billion of people’s wealth and pensions and capital now frozen all because of the midget’s actions and delusional fetishes for a neo-Tsarist Russian empire that restores serfdom for the people but directs all the goodies for the demon-looking former-street thugs-turned-politicians. I mean in this day and age would ever want to endure life under the midget’s delusions now that we know who he is? I guarantee you that the midget and his underlings will eventually suffer a very spectacular downfall that pales the likes of Nicolae Ceaușescu’s or Saddam’s or Colonel Ghaddafi’s famous ‘bayonet stabbings’ in you know where by a 14-year old Libyan child soldier.
May I ask TTG, do you support the views of Polish Janitor in his comment? Would you sign/post this comment if instead ,,the Pols” it stood ,,the Balts”?
Jovan P,
Polish Janitor expressed his views clearly, elegantly and forcefully. I agree with him and thank him for his valued contribution to this discussion.
It’s starting to impact other countries to the level of starvation. The longer this goes on the human suffering will spread way off the battlefield and across oceans. Millions will die. All because the CIA trashed another country with a coup instead of tending to their own borders being overrun. Sickening.
https://youtu.be/v7wvHiX1D4o
Babeltuap,
No. It’s because Russia decided to invade Ukraine. Without the invasion, both Ukrainian and Russian grain harvests and shipments would have continued without interference. Without the invasion, Russia would have been enjoying the profits from Nord Stream 2.
It’s also because nothing has been done, and is not being done, to prepare for that. In fact, perhaps just the opposite. Days of reckoning, beacon.
Babeltuap,
Indonesia’s 100% organic folly was 100% self induced. The lack of fertilizers here is much more about the regualtory climate in the US than what is going on overseas.
Sri Lanka, Fred, Sri Lanka…:)
And that is a major part of the US image problem abroad
glupi,
Yes, the US image is bad. The Sri Lankan government, however, has managed to destroy its peoples’ system of agriculture and they are on the verge of starvation and rebellion. Glad I could distract from such disgraceful and criminal conduct by the local government.
I apologise, Fred, for getting personal.
At times I get frustrated that first-world nationals seem not to bother to distinguish between third-world countries
Any hope Indonesia (and its palm oil industry) pay me for defending them against slander?
Glupi,
It is unfortunate that after reading online about the disastrous policies of the Sri Lankan government, located on the opposite end of the world from me, I would incorrectly mention Indonesia, also located on the opposite side of the planet, in its place on a comment on a blog. Good luck getting some money out of Indonesia. I see they are having protests over the dramit increase in palm oil prices locally because the market price has dramatically risen after the government’s reversal of policy.
What does Sri Lanka’s kleptocratic rule by the Rajapaksa family got to do with the US?
They borrowed money from the Chinese as part of BRI, then defaulted, and had to hand over their container port to them. It became for all intents and purposes Chinese sovereign territory.
Are you Bernhard @MoA? For him everything is a nefarious US plot. Of course that’s how he stays in business.
Sam,
Who are you addressing and who is “Bernhard @MoA”? Everything MOA writes about seems to be a US plot, which is why I stopped reading that stuff years ago.
So this is how the Russians have decided to deal with those shooting themselves to get out of the war.
Do not mistake enthusiasm for the “Russian cause” for enthusiasm for reality. The Western high horse of ostensible morality and presumed liberal democracy have brought us to where we are today due, not in small part, to repeated, egregious but deliberate obfuscation, if not down right concealment, of reality. We have paid and are paying a high price not only materially but also in human lives lost.
guidoamm,
Enthusiasm for this particular Russian cause is enthusiasm for a naked war of aggression. The widespread looting, deliberate killing of civilians, raping of women and children and deportation of populations are not just the work of a few bad apples. These are Russian policies in this war. That is reality. Criticism of the sins of liberal democracies is fine, even righteous. Enthusiasm for Russia’s war and the way it’s being waged is a denial of reality.
The reality is that Russia is not “losing” this fight. No amount of Western propaganda can change that. Even the NYT has come around to acknowledging this to be the case.
As far as “policies” go during a war, all I can say is: rocks, glass houses. From the Mau Mau uprising in Africa and the starvation of Indians, from the Algeria fight for independence to Mai Lai, Abu Ghraib and Douma, it is never only a few bad apples. Never.
The outrage of the West is cynical, self serving and hypocritical. The masses can be forgiven for their ignorance. Not so those that pretend to rule over us.
We omit here to discuss arbitrary policies that occasion devastation, displacement, hardship and premature death during times of not-war. The recent prevarications of Western governments of presumed developed, liberal democracies have occasioned the devastation of many a life. How many have been driven into a precarious existence or down right poverty? How many more daughters than would have otherwise been the case have been sold into slavery to slow the descent of families into abject destitution?
Russia may or may not be deporting populations and may or may not be shooting their own wounded. Is that worse than destroying the water and energy infrastructure of an entire country thereby fostering increased mortality due to disease and the inevitable fights that will break out amongst the population for control of scraps of fuel and clean water? Is it worse than defoliating millions of square kilometres of land thereby contaminating farmland for generations?
Russia is doing what we have all done in the very recent past and for thousands of years prior.
Our faux outrage is politically useful for the average person in the street. Some of us however, know better.
And what’s the big idea with harassing all Russians merely by dint of being Russian?
guidoamm
You have no documentation for that charge?
Banning Russian athletes, opera singers and personalities from participating to events because of their nationality, revoking leases and reneging on contracts because of the counterparties are Russians, is rather well documented.
guidoamm
Did I say I am in favor of that?
I never claimed you were in favour or otherwise. You did however state I have “no documentation for that charge.
Oh please… You sound just like a British propagandist circa WWI.
No, this is not the reality. The reality is that Russia is in an existential struggle against the aggressive West. Russia is winning the ground war, and the West (with your help) is winning the media war.
whoknows,
So you think my efforts are helping Ukraine win the media war. Good. If my words contribute in any way to help Ukraine defend herself against the invading Russians, a true existential struggle, it would leave a warm feeling in my heart.
Be comforted, guidoamm. The double-edged sword of unintended consequences comes into play with blatant propaganda in an information era
For example, the Western high horse morality has already managed to turn the ‘Rich man’ from Batman into an oligarch whose property must be confiscated for the common good.
When you encourage BLM / protests by the homes of Supreme Court justices / Extinction Rebelion and recommend struggling poor people move to better paying jobs or take on more hours at work (UK ‘safeguarding’ minister just did that), don’t be surprised if your countrymen follow Sri Lanka and the mansions of politicians start to burn
The problem with MSM news is it drains people’s energy. Refuting such claims, or even thinking about them is useless. Although I got to admit that the British deep state is the best at spreading such nonsense.
I can’t imagine a Russian officer shooting his soldiers. The same goes for the US army, Germans, and more or less every army in the world. What would be the goal of such action? Would the soldiers want to fight for that kind of army?
JovanP
Contempt for the troops, an old tradition in the Russian Army. We have no such tradition in the West.
of course u.s. grunts fragged bad officers, lots of….i think russian grunts would shoot such officers, no?
read this blogs for manyears. salute you, col…….
dv
I always felt I was running for office and had to be firm but fair and take the same chances as they, and guess what? I am still here.
Yea!
I have learned a lot from you.
“Thus Always…
Posted on July 26, 2005 by Michael Chevalier
This weblog will tell the truth as it is given to me to know the truth.”
Pat Lang
!
Pat; that is all any realistic subordinate expects of leadership. As to Russian officers shooting enlisted men; I don’t believe it. I believe you, but I cant believe shooting any incapacitated soldier. I could/would not do that to a dog.
Bill Roche,
You or I wouldn’t do that to a dog, but there are many people who get perverted pleasure from torturing animals. There’s a number of stories about FSB torturers plying their trade in Ukraine. I don’t find the idea of Russian officers shooting their own wounded troops at all unbelievable.
I spent some time with Russian troops in the Chechen wars. Their officers were not shooting them. Their officers were not abusing them. Of course the officers were somewhat aloof but that’s how it should be. But the enlisted ranks were allowed to do their own thing during “off-duty” hours even building banyas in which they could chill out. I saw no alcohol being drunk and no sign of oppression.
I contrast that with the “let’s all be buddies” attitude among many western officers who then have trouble maintaining discipline. A case in point is the response of the unit commander concerning the Haditha murders (double tapping a 3 year old in the chest: really?), when asked why he had taken no action. Paraphrasing: “It happened all the time. It was a common occurrence.” The primary offender was convicted in the murders of 24 civilians in the houses and the executions of the kids in the taxi. He was sentenced to time served: about 3 months. That form of leadership – from top to bottom – is nothing short of cowardice.
Surely, if by “the West” you also include England circa 1916 or Germany circa 1943, maybe a little Western contempt for the troops could be ferreted out?
The above not withstanding however, what is the difference or is there a difference, between contempt for the troops and contempt for civilians in a conflict zone? Is one more heinous than the other?
The fact that the West should be egging on the Ukrainians to poke Russia with declarations of fighting till victory is won; is that not contempt for the Ukranian army or, indeed, its population?
The West has watched over approvingly whilst the Ukrainian government distributed light arms to the civilian population to go fight against Russian troops. Quite apart from the fact that some very unsavoury characters were suddenly given the green light to go settle some personal scores and perpetrate other crimes with their new toys, in my book, that shows some vicious contempt for the civilian population that would get slaughtered in a confrontation with the Russian army.
I put it to you that there is no difference in ethics between one army and another. You may argue that there is a difference in the overall number of victims that suffered at the hands of one army vs another although, of course, we would be wading into the realm of sophistry.
I am always reminded here that the United States are the only country to date that has deliberately detonated not 1 but 2 nuclear devices over entire populations. As contempt goes, in my book, that is hard to beat.
On a Syrian note, related only by criminality, a French court indicts Lafarge Cement Corp for ‘complicity in crimes against humanity’ in #Syria
https://twitter.com/joshua_landis/status/1526947020665135105
I wonder how many more are to come.
Probably not many, that is French money politics. The French were/are involved in Syria. The whole Syrian war was about a gas pipeline to Europe that didn´t need to go through either Turkey or Israel for obvious reasons. That is the real reason Russia got involved (ok they are terrorist but that was num. 2) and all the BS reasons for Idlib still not being taken back by the SAA (they need Russian Iranian help and they are not getting it). Shame really, that will be bloody if (when) it finishes. Its all politics, f* the people who have to die.
joe90,
There’s a whole lot more to what is going on in Syria than an oil pipleline.
SEbastapol was more important. Without a base on the Mediterranean for resupply there is no point in a fleet headquarters in the Black Sea. Turkey can block it any time. Beyond the Med, Russia has been gently negotiationg with Morrocco for years about an Atlantic base.
Philip Owen,
Tartus.
Meanwhile:
Georgia’s prime minister and top military officer are visiting NATO HQs today in Brussels. And those visits were scheduled for shortly after the new Nordic membership applications were formally received by Stoltenberg. Georgia’s top military officer discussed Black Sea security and Russia’s ongoing invasion in Ukraine, according to Georgian news.
Wagner seem to be scum to be honest, but hired killers are just legal killers for hire. You are not demanding the Russian to be held to a higher standard than NATO, are you, I don´t think you are. Some Wagner seem (are) to be neo-Nazis. Guess the Russians think that is one way to kill 2 birds with one ruble.
Ukrainian partizans are getting bolder in and near Melitopol.
– Grenade at Russian commandant’s house.
– Curfew patrols taken under fire.
– RR tracks sabotaged – unclear whether or not it caused an armored train to wreck.
Quote from the occupiers: “Every f*cking night we fight with these sabotage and reconnaissance groups that start f*cking coming into the village every f*cking night… Basically I’m f*cking sick of it, I want to go home, for f*ck’s sake. Some people are really on edge: we’re f*cked, we’re f*cked off, we’re f*cking fed up.”
Excellent article in NYT titled “We Should Say It. Russia Is Fascist” by Yale Prof. Timothy Snyder. Provides an excellent history of fascism and how Putin uses the term. Anyone opposed by Russia is a “fascist” while his regime fits the bill. How long can he convince the Russian people of this before they wake up?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/19/opinion/russia-fascism-ukraine-putin.html
So much human good has come from the Russian people. Science, art, literature, dance, music, medicine, space exploration … But their gov’t has ever been fascist since the Mongols. Imagine what contributions they could make in a free society, unburdened of having to be the “prince of all the Slavs”. Just to be Russian and see where freedom can take them. A defeat in Ukraine could be the release for the Russian people. After 600 years, free at last, free at last! Meh…
@Bill Roche
Don’t the Russians have the right to choose the kind of society they want to live in?
I don’t know. If you are saying that Russians chose to live in an authoritarian society, yes, even serfdom until 186?, then enjoy. Did Russians enjoy the Romanovs, the communists, and do they enjoy a politically closed society today – you got me. I have never lived in nor even visited Russia. But that brings up a larger question doesn’t it? Do average Russians get to choose anything about their life. So I’ll throw the question back at you. What do every day Russians get to choose?
Russian Soldier on Trial Asks Victim’s Widow to Forgive Him
“I realize that you can’t forgive me, but I’m pleading you for forgiveness,” pleaded Sgt Shishimarin.
Another captured Russian soldier, Ivan Maltisov, testified that an armored vehicle carrying several troops broke down in the village of Chupakhivka in northeastern Ukraine on Feb. 28, just four days into the Russian invasion. The Russian troops then stole a Volkswagen Passat and were driving through the village. They encountered 62-year-old Oleksandr Shelipov, who was walking with his bike and talking on his phone, could pinpoint their location.
The Russian soldier facing the first war crimes trial since the start of the war in Ukraine testified Thursday that he shot a civilian on repeated orders from two officers and pleaded for his victim’s widow to forgive him.
The 21-year-old sergeant could get life in prison if convicted of shooting the Ukrainian man in the head through an open car window in a village in the northeastern Sumy region on Feb. 28, four days into the Russian invasion.
Looking subdued, Shishimarin said he at first disobeyed his immediate commanding officer’s order to shoot the unarmed civilian but had no other choice but to follow the order when it was repeated forcefully by another officer.
The widow told the court that Shishimarin deserves a life sentence for killing her husband but added that she wouldn’t mind if he’s exchanged as part of a possible prisoner swap with Russia for the surrendered Ukrainian defenders of the Azovstal steel plant in Mariupol.
A chain of thought from my debate with Pat;
His position is that if I’m not properly committed to the current two minute hate, I’m either unpatriotic, or chicken.
My position is that I’m just a kid pointing out the emperor looks naked to me. Which would put Pat in the position of being the guard telling the little boy to be more respectful of the emperor.
My response would be that if he’s really concerned about the welfare of the emperor, why isn’t he going after those cheating him, not those pointing out he’s looking foolish.
Yet as we all know, should he try such a thing, he would quickly be on the outside, looking in, if not underfoot.
As the real problems are not external threats, but internal. More of an autoimmune disease or cancer, than an injury or infection.
The problem is not so much that Eisenhower was right, but that Jackson was. It’s the banks at the root of all evil. The military industrial complex is just their heavy. “War is a racket.”
Jesus might have been peace, love and turning the other cheek, except when it came to the moneychangers.
Which brought to mind another discussion elsewhere, observing the Woke movement really happened to spring up in the wake of the Tea Party and Occupy Wall St. movements, ten years ago.
Then my mind goes back to Jackson, who was a Southern slaveholder and the fact the anti-slave movement really came to life in the decades after Jackson took down the Second Bank of the United States, which was largely controlled by northern businessmen and not really under political control.
Now slavery is certainly reprehensible, but given the nature of life at the time, it was not that much less brutal than the common life. Considering the waves of European immigration into the north, many of them involved in social upheavals in the Old World, would it have been a twofer to make an issue of southern slavery, as a way to both show the immigrants there is evil in the south and distract from their own economic servitude?
Looking at how the Woke movement appears to be a tool of divide and conquer, could it have been a similar dynamic, in similar situations? History does tend to repeat…..
Sorry, back to Ukraine….
Fascinating parallel between the woke movement and Civil war or more properly perhaps the abolition movement as distraction from class distresses of immigrants up north and in the wide world generally. Our uneducated serfs here, by design, don’t learn about the European revolutions of 1848 or the huge rebellions in China of mid 19th century. It’s plausible to see the US civil war as a typical war of conquest for resources of the south engineered by bankers using their posession (ownership) of the press of their day to inflame and divide. In my opinion John Brown was every single bit as lunatic as the more egregious wokesters of our recent past and ongoing present day. He was a damn mass murderer with a manifesto, to put a blunt current spin on it.
For the ongoing destructions of woke imbecility and modern day … (maoism, stalinism, khmer rouge, sans coulottes .. your pick), see what is reported as being perpetrated against an eminent scientist below:
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/he-was-a-world-renowned-cancer-researcher
For the latest (un)lovely distraction see monkey pox:
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/05/20/monk-m20.html
If it was totally organic, why wasn’t there a similar movement to cut the Indians some slack?
Which is ludicrous, given how much the cowboys and Indians, frontiersman mythos dominated our culture up until fairly recently.
For those that are skeptical of these reports portraying Russians as a primitive, bloodthirsty people. Remember the Syrian Free Press? Remember the Friends of Syria? Or who here remembers the White Helmets? We even gave an Oscar to their little movie. Remember that idiot “journalist” Roy Gutman relating stories Mr. Hakawati his ostensible source inside Syria?
Remember this one?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/us-government-pentagon-fake-al-qaeda-propganda-videos-a7348371.html
guidoamm
Completely agree.