The US decision to give Israel the title deed to ALL of Jerusalem without diplomatic recompense will look worse and worse as time passes. The street demonstrations breaking out in places like Beirut and Amman are just the beginning of the process of condemnation. Almost every country in Europe has condemned the action. The Arab League has condemned the action. This will put the Arab states in the position of having to make basic decisions about their relations with Israel (Egypt and Jordan) and the US. In the case of Jordan and Egypt large amounts of free money from the US and Saudi Arabia will be at stake but … Russia, China and many European companies stand in the wings waiting to expand their influence and activity. At the same time Sultan Tayyip Erdogan has invited the OIC to convene in Turkey to consider the Islamic World's reaction to Trump's gift to Israel. Trump apparently decided to do this on the basis of the counsel of his Zionist son-in law acting on behalf of Likudniks who IMO want nothing more than an Israel from the sea to the Jordan River that is Arab free except for a suitable population of helots. It has been interesting this Sunday morning to watch Jake Tapper ask Nikki Haley how it is that this land deal will promote a settlement. She smiled a secretive smile redolent of private meetings and knowledge. We have spoken to both sides she said and you will see that we have restored motion to the process. Tapper pressed her on this and she could only say that Tapper will understand what a great policy change this is. He was unconvinced. IMO Trump, urged on by Kushner, believes that the Palestinians, have no recourse and that having been beaten like dogs will accept anything. pl
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/239095
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5164435/Turkish-President-Erdogan-calls-Israel-terrorist-state.html
So, OMB attack on Harper’s Ferry is now followed by a Dred Scott Decision; “…we woke up stark mad raving abolitionists.”
The Palestinians really have no recourse in the short term. Arab governments–perpetually apathetic about the Palestinian cause, if not hostile–reacted with the usual staid pablum. After six years of uprisings and civil wars of varying intensity, the “Arab Street’s” reaction was muted at best.
But in the long term, this decision will be catastrophic for Israel and will add another notch in an impressively long line of spectacularly dumb policy choices in the Middle East for the US. Unless Israel wants to commit genocide on a scale that would really make a difference (but impossible given its own historical identity), this will likely strengthen the BDS movement and begin a slow and painful march to an Arab majority one state solution. Good luck with all that.
babak
Dred Scott came first. what is your point? pl
My point is that a single, seemingly inconsequential action, could enflame emotions that, in time, could lead to a much wider war.
The Arabs and their paper states are a beaten people, the only hope for the Palestinians and the Arab people is total Iranian domination of the former seljuk borders or political collapse of GCC-maintained order in the greater Middle East extending to Pakistan and replacement with a grassroots ISIS/taliban type entity, proven to be very resilient in past 10-25 years in forging sovereign order where there was chaos and debasemen and guarding against acute and chronic foreign interference. not mutually exclusive things, the end result of each option could probably coexist, indeed they are probably not exclusive options but one is concomitant to the other.. Think “management of savagery”. The Iranian option on a wider scale, through some type of Turkish and French Maghreb cooperation/cultural synthesis would be less painful but probably less stable in the long term as the persian succumbs to his innate liberal ideal and the cycle starts again. I don’t think there is an alternative to either of these cases, they are inevitable as the current “judeo-Christian” bankrolled paradigm is untenable. and the result for Israel in either case is the same:bad
A great set of pictures of the protest:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5162139/Israeli-warplanes-batter-Gaza-missiles.html
About halfway down there are a series of images of “Mounted Officers” clad in black armor on beautiful black horses, also clad in black armor. The Palestinians cower in the back ground as the mighty Israeli’s intimidate them in scenes that could come straight out of the bible. This is predictive programming at its finest.
This will not end well for the Israelis.
Trump has lanced the boil, and IMO that is a good thing in the bigger picture.
The Israeli-Palestinian situation has been stuck in very slow boiling frog mode for some time. It becomes more and more obvious to more people every year that there is no 2-state solution and there is no real desire for peace as the Israelis continue to take Palestinian land. There has been no real consequences for them doing so, as it’s been done slowly in stealth.
Now the bandaid has been ripped off. All is more public now. How the various ME gov’ts act on this issue now will be seem by all. All sides have been using the Palestinians as a political football for their own geopolitical ends. Karma=consequences.
As this post points out, this move is already triggering a rearrangement of the ME the chess pieces. Given how awful it’s been, is that such a bad thing?
Serge
I don’t think “Iranian domination” is the only alternative. I think Iran is seeking to emulate the British/US strategy of forming mutually benefitial alliances. For example, the US does not “dominate” South Korea but it has formed a partnership with South Korea such that South Korea gains from that partnership. By the same token, contrary to neocon propaganda, Iran does not dominate Hezbollah but it works in partnership with Hezbollah. The reason why Iran is a threat to the US-UK partnership is that they are emulating our successful geopolitical strategies. I think that an Iranian-Russian partnership would be very formidable if they can work together in the long term.
Today’s lunatic fringe hypothesis.
Trump wants to MAGA
That entails cutting it loose from real and imagined foreign entanglements
The Borg is opposed to that big time and it would be difficult and dangerous to do from Washington
Therefore, do your best to piss off said entanglements/allies/whatever
They will do the cutting off themselves
In short, a certain amount of isolationism is a good thing (for everybody, actually)
Again, just a crazy idea I have filed away in the Maybe File.
(PS And now we find that the Pentagon isn’t even sure how many troops are overseas.)
Whaddaya think?
Patrick Armstrong
So you think the real plan is to cause NATO, etc. to reject us for our lunacy? BTW DoD never knows exactly how many military people are overseas. There are too many people coming and going all the time, people on TDY and the bureaucrats fiddle with the books to avoid limits placed by Congress. pl
What Iran has supplied the Arabs has been “brains”.
I thought something similar. – It was Wow! Trump just handed the Middle East to Russia.
Given Turkey’s increasing islamization, Erdogan’s Ottoman revival dreams, Turkish/Iranian cultural ties such as Sufism and past Turkish/Iranian alliances I could see a Turkish/Iranian alliance. Turkey is pro Muslim Brotherhood and Iran once was pre-Syria and could easily reconcile, especially if promised help in regaining Egypt – lost due to the Saudis. Russia is on fairly good terms with both. So many factors point to the Saudis and their client states as being the odd man out. Saudi/Egypt ties to the US and Israel will also feed the fault lines. Trump’s move may be the catalyst that will create at least temporarily a powerful coalition that will start with it’s focus on Israel but Egypt and Saudi Arabia will be targets as well.
I wonder how much anticipation of the following
motivated Trump’s decision on Jerusalem:
“Trump says White House Hanukkah celebration ‘all about Jerusalem’ “
https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/07/trump-white-house-hanukkah-jerusalem-287131
It sure sounds to me like
earning favor with American Jews
was at least a factor in his decision.
MAGA?
I can usually sniff out most of the acronyms here but that one’s beyond me at the moment.
How about this. We are against Iran but all of our moves in Afghanistan, Lebanon, Iraq, and Syria. Since 9/11 have done nothing but benefit them. Even this last one. I mean the only two countries that were against a 2-State solution were Israel and Iran. Iran would have accepted it, but was against it. How about that for the maybe file. Ha
If you mean Iran prefers Ikhwan’ sunni Islam to that of Saudi wahabi/ISIS version, yes IMO you are correct.
I think in a larger picture, Iran prefers Sunni Islam which accepts coexistence with the Shia Islam on equal bases in practice and not just words, IMO one reason is, it becomes more difficult if not impossible, for outsiders and ill wishers to agitate and start inter faith clashes and wars, as well as being easier for minority sect which are the Shia.
Trump’s slogan: Make America Great Again
Something like that (but it’s just my crazy idea to wonder about)
Yes but the number being talked about is 44K: that’s a lot of in transit, sick leave et al. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-09/dude-wheres-my-troops-pentagon-loses-track-44000-soldiers
1. At Values Voters Summit in October 2017, Steve Bannon received a raucous response when he affirmed Trump’s pledge to move US embassy to Jerusalem https://www.c-span.org/video/?435688-1/steve-bannon-addresses-values-voter-summit
Bannon’s speech focused on HIS contributions to gaining a majority Electoral College vote for Trump. Given that Trump fired Bannon shortly after taking office, I conjectured that Bannon’s role was — and was limited to — getting votes, not necessarily geostrategic thinking/policy making. In that he’s a zero.
2. The other day, Washington Journal moderator Greta Brawner invited listeners to telephone their opinion of Trump’s action. In the course of the program, Brawner read from a Wall Street Journal article:
Brawner did not expand on the article to explain that the notion that “God will bless those bless Israel” is a concept inserted into Protestant bibles & seminaries through the so-called Scofield bible, with its pro-zionist interpretative footnotes, which was financed by Jewish zionists.
But the short version is that Christian zionists were activated to press for Trump to move US embassy to Jerusalem.
MAGA = Make America Great Again
There are a LOT of Israelis who think the ultimate solutions to the Palestinians is to put them on Reservations like we did to Native Americans. If it was good enough for the Americans it is good enough for Israel. However, it’s obvious in talking with them there is a lot they don’t understand about our Reservations, namely Native Americans are citizens and they are free to live off the reservation. When I explain this difference to them, they are very confused. Then they proffer their next solution, give the Palestinians to Jordan which is the last thing Jordan wants to do.
This decision validates the position and policies of Hezbollah, Syria, Iraq & Iran vis a vis the GCC, NATO, & EU.
Trump just gave them the high ground.
It also makes an ass out of Hamas and the palestinian groups who took the side
of the jihadists.
It will have ramifications within the Orthodox Community. … Think Egypt, Ethiopia, Sudan, Greece, Bulgaria.
It directly plays into the hand of OBOR
INDY
Google it. A single definition won’t suffice.
It’s apparently some sort of eye-of-the-beholder, tactical CogDis, maybe subversive and mesoaggressive, aspirational to some and Anti-american to others slogan sometimes commoditized into fashion statement that started its cacameme course as a hashtag….or something like that. .
ex-PFC Chuck,
MAGA = Make America Great Again.
The law mandating that the US recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel was passed in 1996 with overwhelming support from both parties. McCain voted for it. Boxer voted for it. Feinstein voted for it. Bill Clinton signed it into law.
That law allows the US president to issue 6-month delays to impliment the law based upon national security concerns. I am unaware of any such concerns.
Now, I’m not a fan of Trump. Nor am I a fan of Israel stealing Palestinian land. That said, all Trump is doing is following preexisting US law. Trump isn’t the only problem. Instead, Congress and both parties are also in Israel’s pocket, as the passage of this law shows. Let’s not pretend it’s all on Trump.
Yes, the repercussions of Trump’s Jerusalem give-away are only beginning to be felt. But, it appears to me that wealthy Arab Royals — at their own risk — prefer a devil’s bargain with Netanyahu than fealty to either Jerusalem or the Palestinian brothers. The Gulf oil barons have rarely lifted a finger to help Palestine, only occasionally throwing them bones of a few million with many strings attached. Ironically, this could build up Iran’s status in the Islamic world. How does that help the Saudis? Questions that come to mind: was the Salman line informed in advance and gave a green light to Trump’s announcement on Jerusalem? Do the Likudniks and Yesha-ists act on the belief that no one in Europe or the US dare to stop their aggression? The Israeli right does fear the BDS (Boycott, Divestiture, Sanctions — especially Divestiture), but stupid fools in the US have passed laws declaring BDS decisions to being tantamount to hate crimes.
That’s why so many so fear HSN.
jdledell
i have explained to a number of Israelis that American Indians live on reservations of their own volition. They don’t want to hear that. pl
What would happen, with certainity, in that hare-brained Jordan-is-palestine, that the liberation of Occupied Palestine would be written into the constitution of the Islamic Republic of Palestine (with temporary capital of Amman). Hashemie Kingdom will be extingished.
You would be wrong. Trump just slapped them all in the face, they have lost honor in a very public manner. They are no longer Sharif.
Ah, the Black Knights, obviously working the agents of Lord of Flies – could not have wished for anything more…
Babak
You are correct with regard to those who were actually sharif. pl
You are mistaken.
He has slapped Muslims in the face and has publicly humiliated Muslims friendly to USA.
Re: Two State Solution?
Is there any continuous area in the West Bank to make a Palestinian State?
I am surprised why PL has allowed this racial abuse to go on.
Spot on! Let’s face it the US is and has been for several decades, a zionist controlled entity.
IMO, what Trump has done to quote Valissa is “lance the boil”. The fiction of “honest broker” has been removed and so has the fiction that the monarchies in Saudi Arabia, GCC, & Jordan care about the Palestinians. Even Erdogan and Sisi have to prevaricate even more.
What does that mean?
Do they really care they have publicly lost face? They are monarchs and dictators and not ruling on the basis of consent of the governed. In any case they’ve only been pretending they care.
blue pecock
Like a lot of modern people you sadly have no sense of honor, not honor as shame but as an inherent condition of personal dignity and responsibility for the quality of your actions. “sharif” in Arabic means honorable or alternatively someone descended from the Prophet. pl
Muhannad
I think I have to strike a balance here between opposing views. Incidentally, you should address me directly and not in the third person. The abuse here so far has not been racial. It is cultural. You have not seen the worst of it. I do not post that. pl
dilbert dogbert
Not any longer. pl
This undergraduate thesis on Max Nordau’s “racist zionism” and “regenerative muscle Judaism” sheds some light on the present-era compulsion of many Israelis for militaristic means of settling conflicts. https://scholar.colorado.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1700&context=honr_theses
As a child, Nordau was heavily influenced by the bible stories of Jewish heroes who were tall and strong and bold and brawny. The Jews he confronted in his own day were “degenerated physically and mentally.” Nordau, trained as a physician w/ special interest in psychiatry, advocated that the “new Jew” develop himself through sports and gymnastics.
I speculate that this “degenerated” Judaism began to emerge in the late 19th century, in the Jewish population bubble in Eastern Europe; that is, about 150 years ago. Nordau introduced his regenerating methods about 110 years ago, so perhaps in 40 years or so Jews will achieve an equilibrium of moderation.
The thesis included discussion of some of the art work of Lilien, a committed zionist and apostle of Nordau’s “muscle Judaism.” Lilien depicted Herzl as the model “Assyrian ancient Semite;” Lilien’s image of Moses breaking the tablets bore the features of Herzl, as did the angel in his “The Creation of Man.” It is ironic that the person of Herzl the philosopher of zionism, rather than Jabotinsky, the Revisionist zionist who advocated violence, was employed to exemplify the ideal image of the new Jew; Jabotinsky despised his appearance and expended great effort to alter it.
Col. Lang
While I understand why you believe the Saudi monarch or the monarch of Abu Dhabi should have such honor as the word “sharif” implies, they’ve essentially paid only lip service in the past. Now that facade has been removed. Did they ever have such honor before?
I get the emotional component of Jerusalem in the hearts of both Jews & Muslims. What I am failing to get however is how what the US says is so material? What if the Chinese said this? Isn’t the US really just an outsider to this religious conflict poking our nose in it?
As for me, I feel I am an honorable person, in the sense that I am true to my word and that in my day to day dealings I don’t attempt to take advantage of others and place priority on truth over expedience. I have faced ethical situations in my career where I could have profited handsomely if I looked the other way or bent the truth, but I did not and had to face the consequence of character assassination. Now admittedly, I may not rise to the level of honor that you describe.
blue peacock
Probably not. pl
Croesus,
the link to colorado.edu does not work for me; interesting is your comment because there is a very real connection to the german “ffff” Movement (frisch fromm fröhlich frei) – which had its origins with the person Jahn, the “father” of the german Turn-Vereine (Exercise clubs) – their history is seriously linked with politics of early 19. century in Germany, with nationalisms, and antisemitism. The jewish nationalism owes probably a good deal to those national movements and Nordau is probably just rehashing the old stories (I say probably because I have no idea what he wrote). For more about these issues see
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Ludwig_Jahn
and Shlomo Sands “The Invention of The Jewish People”.
IMO, the Jewish people and German people share a lot in common, both want to be the “Herren-Rasse” and that is why they have a love-hate relationship. — and this bodes not well for the current “Herrenrasse”.
And this surprises you? When haven’t our Middle East policies not validated the position of our “enemies”–particularly post the original sin of 2003?
Let’s see if T-money actually goes through with it, though.
Confirming “hey, good enough for the Native Americans, we need to do the same to Arabs” meme. But not only Palestinians: Israel recently did ethnic cleansing on the Bedouin shepherds, declaring their desert to now be a military region, and forcing them to retire to bad-motel barracks and give up their way of life in a cultural genocide. The Bedouin are Israeli citizens but this did not stand in the way.
There’s a good chance the Bedouin were the shepherds described in the Bible who came to visit Jesus. Israel has built a wall through Bethlehem and is breaking the town apart. Evangelical Christians are being snookered by the Pharisees.
Okay ladies and gents lets look at what it is?
UNO:600 trillion dollars over fiat money circulating around fed by the printing presses since 2001. IE: 120 trillion fiat dollars over leveraging. Printing presses working over time from Japan ,Europe and the goodly land of the free.
Lets be frank gals and guys. By 1968 US industrial growth and exchange was the Military Industrial complex.
Today well please lets not start. When the Pentagon last year reported 10Trillion fiat dollars could not be accounted for. Sound familiar ?Pre 9/11 2Trillion fiat dollars. Well counting for inflation that sounds about right.
Jugoslavia,Syria ,Libya, Sudan,Pakistan ,Afghanistan, Iraq,Yemen,Nigeria,Malawi, Arab winter(spring). Lest face it AFRICOM 1991. POKOHAREM anybody. It was first mentioned in a paper done by u know Lobby groups, Kegan, Wolfowitz.Yeah u remember NEO-CONS (Con Job).These guys want to have the rest of the developing world bleeding themselves with war and division while they hedge their bets both ways and economically rtape and plunder them.
DUE:GEN Butler”War is a racket”> He use to have more respect for AL-Capone then all the shills that were trying to stage a coup against FDR> But then again FDR was what we could consider the one who instilled US economic hegemony(Fiat dollars redeemable at 32 dollars a troy ounce of GOLD> (After he tried to confiscate all peoples populace GOLD)
TRE: Trump the Frump is to coin a a famous song.”LOOK AT THE NEW BOSS SAME AS THE OLD BOSS”> Lets admit it when did this Ponzi scheme charade begin and look at all the Presidents foreign policy since the death of JFK>
WAR IS GOOD. Famous quote back in 2001. Wolfowitz to then Argentinian Presedent.
Conclusion: By deception you may wage war and make a hell of a lot of money guns ,drugs and divide and conquer. The British empire tried it and worked for them. Remember they invented the modern term free trade. 1700’s.
So sit back have some popcorn and pray that this shit doesn’t go thermonuclear.Remember Israel has 200-400 nuclear bombs undeclared.
Would the “Nikki Haley’s secretive smile” suggest Trump Administration’s acquiescence to planned ethnic cleansing ethnic cleansing, after a provocation in order to blame the Palestinians for their own suffering and the peplanned population transfer?
And on top of that, I hardly believe that one statement from Trump has the awesome power to establish “the title deed to ALL of Jerusalem”.
If it were that easy, I’m sure Trump would be establishing title deeds all over the world. Trump may have some influence, but only limited influence. It will be years before any real embassy is constructed, and even then it’s undoubtedly going to be placed close to other government buildings. Trump’s public statement is a very small part of a long process… be that for better or worse.
More likely this is designed for Trump to keep his base onside at home. The massive Muslim overreaction was predictable and suits Trump’s purposes just fine. Quite a lot of Trump’s base are already supportive of Israel, and even those who are not supportive, will at least frown upon the violent protests and chest beating because they tend to be “Law & Order” types.
Meanwhile the US economy has been getting a little bit better, but not so good as Trump promised (early days yet, could turn around, but could also crash). Trump has done something with his tax plan, but hardly spectacular and most tax shuffles have unexpected side effects. Trump’s “wall” is turning into a bit of a fizzer… he promised to end DACA but just delayed the decision. I personally expect Trump will eventually fold on DACA.
Trump really needs a good distraction right now, give the obedient media something to talk about… hey look over there! Don’t watch Yellen raise interest rates. You can expect a bit more “rally the base” fodder to come along as we move closer to the mid-term elections.
I look at the contradictions of the Trump admin, and often think along those lines.
A recent contradiction, late November an F-22 reportedly harassing a couple of SU-25’s west of the Euphrates, leaving when and SU-35 appeared on the scene, to now where as reported by AMN that Ru air force is working with Kurd forces on the east bank of the Euphrates to clear the remaining territory down to the Iraq border.
What has been noticeable is Trump seems to be blowing up balloons to bursting point, then popping them.
Is Trump pro zionist or pro Jewish? If Trump wants to “make America great again”, he will have to break the zionist hold on the US.
I must admit I never was a believer in the so-called various Peace process, and always considered Israel as un-willing to conced any state-hood to the Palestians.
On top of being unwilling to relinquish its 67 conquest, except Sinaï.
So in some way this charade, very confortable for US allies in Europe, US moral citizenry, being over has the merit of clarification. And is not changing reality on the ground.
But the necessity of his charade, and keeping it alive for so long,will need some kind of you design; and that’s a tall order, that IMHO only the UN could and should be charged to propose. Going back to a modicum of respect for International Laws would be a real change.
Meanwhile the most unconfortable positions will be for the KSA and Emirates leaders, specifically in their relations with African and Asian muslims.
This in the fresh background of the Syrian war.
Yes, Colonel Lang I think I know what you mean by Honor and lost of self-respect.
Note: there were lot of reference to the Israel wars of 48 and 67. One, the most totally inspired by colonial thinking seems to be erased from memories: the 56 Suez Canal. How’s that ?
I don’t think it is Trump’s intent to give the Israelis all of Jerusalem, I took his statement to imply the opposite. Through lack of knowledge, as well as poor, perhaps deliberately so, advise it has been portrayed as being so. Not for the first time Trump has misunderstood the subtly required for diplomacy, but I do not think Trump’s statement is what people think it is.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2017/12/06/statement-president-trump-jerusalem
Disturbing pictures. Thank you for the link.
Yes- giving control of the third most holy city in Islam to the Zionists is a slap in the face for every Muslim on the planet. Neither does it reflect very well on the Saudi Royal Family, being the official custodians of the other two holy cities.
Makes you wonder what the Saudis have been promised in return for acquiescing to the loss of Jerusalem, and whether USA or Israel have any intention of delivering on this promise.
londonBob
No. Recognition cuts the ground out from under future bargaining over the city’s status in return for a pious wish that the two sides can work something out between them. The problem is that the Palestinians have nothing to bargain with. pl
tel
IMO you are an apologist for an extreme Zionist viewpoint. Palestinians will now be gradually pushed out of the city altogether. The US now supports annexation of all of Jerusalem. pl
Dear Col Lang,
The word honor is little used in the modern world and to make sure I understood your meaning and intent I searched and found a website named “The Art Of Manliness” which discusses honor in depth from the ancient world and the North and South concepts of honor in the Civil War era, to the ‘sad’ lack of honor in our age of narcissism.
Here are a couple of quotes to recommend the site to your readers:
“As we’ve mentioned many times, for honor to exist there must be an honor group that enjoys intimate, face-to-face relationships (only those who truly know you can judge your reputation for honor), and a shared honor code – one that everyone in the group understands and has agreed to uphold.”
“The apex of traditional honor is experienced by those platoons that engage in combat firsthand. As Junger puts it, “For some reason there is a profound and mysterious gratification to the reciprocal agreement to protect another person with your life, and combat is virtually the only situation in which that happens regularly.”
https://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/10/01/manly-honor-part-i-what-is-honor/
Would love to hear your suggestion on how to break this hold? You must know this country’ Governance, Industrial, judicial, information and to some extend the military services has been deeply penetrated by Pro Israel neocons, and zionist israeli firsters. IMO will take generation to reverse what took place in last 70 years, unless the greed wakes the angry redneck patriot American up which IMO unfortunately will end up in blood of many innocent or not so innocent Americans. In a way history repeats itself.
Apparently blowback has begun. It appears a Bangladeshi has killed himself trying to set off a suicide vest this morning in the A Train in New York.
My point is more if Trump has been sold a lousy deal what happens when he realises this?
jpb
If you do not instinctively know what real honor is as a human personality characteristic I could not possibly explain it to you. pl
He will also have to break the hold on the USA political system of the FIRE sector (finance, insurance, real estate), which he’ll never do because that’s where he came from and to which he hopes to return.
London Bob
Apparently the dumbbell thinks that the Israelis will feel some sense of obligation to follow his lead because he gave them something valuable. In fact they will just pocket the gain and ask for more. pl
try this: https://scholar.colorado.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?referer=https://www.google.com/&httpsredir=1&article=1700&context=honr_theses
Apologies for the extraneous link above; I don’t know where that came from.
Yes, indeed, the body-building movement functioned all over Europe, and England; it was the Edwrdian “age of men.” Teddy Roosevelt reflected the same impetus.
The ubiquity of the muscle-movement, that is, it was not just Germany that Nordau mimicked, is one reason I disagree with your suggestion that “both Germans and Jews wanted to be the master race.” The reality is more nuanced and complex, and in desperate need of having decades of propaganda pared away, as you also may conclude if the above link works!
You may also be interested in Etan Bloom’s research on Arthur Ruppin, the “creator of Hebrew culture in Palestine.” Ruppin was born and educated as a lawyer in Germany, and was a prize-winning eugenicist; he set down the criteria for “human material” necessary for the “new Jew” who would be permitted to make aliyeh to the Palestine colony https://tinyurl.com/yca5vbmc One group of E. European Jews had to be sent back home.
Speaking of eugenicists — Benzion Netanyahu taught at Cornell University, where a club for the study of eugenics included about a dozen young Jewish men.
Col: They only thing the Palestinians have is time and non-cooperation. That is the their leverage. Israel needs to find a Palestinian to give away Palestine. The US and the Europeans needs such an “accommodationist” figure.
Charles Michael,
Oh for the love of god, “On top of being unwilling to relinquish its 67 conquest, except Sinai” – The Arabs refused to accept Israel’s right to exist and attacked (see ’67 war) in attempt to wipe it out. The Arabs lost the war. In fighting in self-defense, Israel pushed the Arab lines back into and then past what, in Orwellian terms, is called “the occupied territories”.
So the Arabs executed a war of aggression with aim of destroying Israel, lost and, in the process, lost territory. Just like an Arab to start a war , lose, and then ask for his land back.
Such people can be negotiated with? Good luck.
I am banning myself from this blog now. In addition to becoming a playground for anti-American leftists, an ugly anti-Semitic trend is also emerging.
Trump did this AFTER MbS called Mahmoud Abbas to the Riyadh woodshed and told him what the deal is that the Palestinians will be offered. HE must take it or MbS et al will find a replacement for him as leader. They are, of course, thinking of Mohamed Dahlan, who has been living in the UAE. Dahlan is also chummy with El Sisi. The Arab autocrats agreed to this idea secure in the belief that they can crush any serious public rebellion over it. For that reason they signed on, agreeing that they will utter a few words of dissent and then move on. Of all of them, though, Jordan is the most vulnerable.
The deal is pretty crummy: NO/NO right of return for anyone, no Jerusalem [though MAYBE Abu Dis], continued but slower settlements, NO contiguous territory, just the bantustans that exist now, with the Israeli military remaining at the borders of each bantustan. That is it for the “little open prisons” as they are called. As for the BIG open prison, Gaza, just silence so far.
EN,
You have always sounded like a member of the Pamela Geller/Ann Coulter grafted wing of the “alt right”, so your hysterical nature when it comes to Jews is no surprise. No country has a right to exist
According to the NYT, he apparently lived through it.
In my recent experiences, more than ever before, when one talks to better informed non jewish everyday, and every walk of life Americans, one hears and comes with the feeling that they blame the recent decades of American policy shortcomings, on US’ policy of protecting Israel ( before was blamed on communism). They think their country’ might has been stolen or captured to serve a minority’ interest and not the nation as whole. This self thought blame game, naturally in their mind looks for the responsible person/party for forcing of this damaging path to their country. The country that they grew up to believe and be proud of her righteousness and moral standing. IMO, this is where the real danger to Jewish and non natives Americans is, blaming the US policy mistakes on a group of minority citizens. What if the majority of the country elect an extremist nationalist like Hitler. Do the US Jewish community ever think about that? Do they really think they have enough control not to betterlet something like that to happen? They think twice, Is not that similar racial or ethnic blames never happened here or elsewhere before. They should know better, not to wake the angry majority up by extracting and owning everything this country ever got and made. Unfortunately greed has it’s own mentality.
Eric Newhill said: “The Arabs refused to accept Israel’s right to exist and attacked (see ’67 war) in attempt to wipe it out.”
No, that’s nonsense. The arab armies were mobilized in 1967, sure, but they were dug into their foxholes when the IDF ran over the top of them all the way to the Nile river.
It is pretty hard to launch an invasion when you are dug in, and pretty much impossible to wipe out your opponent when the only time you get out of that fixhole is to run in the opposite direction.
Eric also said: “The Arabs lost the war.”
That’s very true. They were nowhere near as good as the IDF, which both they and the IDF knew full well. Which is why the Arab forces were dug into their foxholes, and why that really didn’t help them much in the end.
Eric also said: “In fighting in self-defense, Israel pushed the Arab lines back into and then past what, in Orwellian terms, is called “the occupied territories”.”
That classic “self-defense blitzkrieg”, hey? Nice trick.
Eric, in 1967 the Arabs were rattling their sabres at Israel. Furiously.
But that’s what they were doing: sabre-rattling. They were not going to attack, precisely because they were dug-in and, furthermore, knew perfectly well that they had no chance if they did attack.
Israel started the Six-Day War, Eric. I can even tell you the precise time they started it, because their Pearl-Harbor style surprise attack on the Egyptian airforce was times to the minute.
Kooshy,
In a nutshell, always, always taking it too far, grasping power and using it for Tribal Purposes. This has the net effect of clearly establishing them in the majority’s mind as parasites – takers and never givers or even fellow citizens. Thus, they enter the danger zone. Without fellow-feeling and reciprocity, the society’s welcome is withdrawn, and every – and I do mean every – action or attitude goes under extreme, and largely unsympathetic scrutiny. The ultimate “own goal”. When things reach such a pass, the ever-recurrent squawk of “anti-semitism” not only loses its power, but it can instead become a badge of honor to be thus characterized.
sorry, have to correct this.
Israel secretly was building an atomic bomb to use in a fight against Egypt. Egypt suspected that Israel was going to invade Egypt and massed troops on its borders to stop this, but they got the timing wrong by a year and were inadequate. One week after Israel finished its bomb, it invaded Egypt early and successfully. This was also the time that Israel bombed the USS Liberty spy ship, and Pres. Johnson ordered the rescuers to hold back [perhaps through concerns Israel would set off its atomic bomb? It’s still not making sense otherwise.] The United Nations has never recognized territory gained through a war-of-aggression land grab. But Israel has successfully pushed the canard that “we invaded and grabbed land in righteous self-defense”, and if this is repeated often and loudly enough, then that’s all you get to hear.
Note that Israel is now primed to invade both Lebanon and Iran in righteous self-defense; and the Senate has already passed SR65 as a blank check to back them up. “What is hateful to yourself, do not do to your fellow-man”.
http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/cpc-pubs/farr.htm
whitewashed version: bomb magically appears fully developed in middle of war “for a demonstration”:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/03/world/middleeast/1967-arab-israeli-war-nuclear-warning.html
Croesus,
Thank you for your reply. I said about the ‘love hate between Jews and Germans’ with my tongue in cheek. There may be some anecdotal evidence that the Jews have more respect towards Germans than for example towards Poles. This may have deep historical roots, I do not want speculate too much, and not take too much place in this blog; other than mine comments bring much more information. Your comments are valuable and I look for those, as well Vietnam Veteran’s, Babak’s, Kooshie, and and and… On another topic – I disagree with Eric Newhill’s statement that this blog is becoming anti-Semitic – absolutely not, he is not able to be objective, that is all.
You need to address the Protestant Churches in North America and in Northern Europe, they bear major responsibility in this, together with incompetent Arab leaders that could not find a war that they could not lose.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=N8Ye9hVAJzY
Don’t worry, be happy, you can Rapture your way out of it.
Honor does not require a group or reciprocity.
Honor can stand alone.
‘Who is the happy Warrior? Who is he
That every man in arms should wish to be?
Who, if he rise to station of command,
Rises by open means; and there will stand
On honourable terms, or else retire,
And in himself possess his own desire;
Who comprehends his trust, and to the same
Keeps faithful with a singleness of aim;
And therefore does not stoop, nor lie in wait
For wealth, or honours, or for worldly state;
Who, whether praise of him must walk the earth
For ever, and to noble deeds give birth,
Or he must fall, to sleep without his fame,
And leave a dead unprofitable name—
Finds comfort in himself and in his cause;
And, while the mortal mist is gathering, draws
His breath in confidence of Heaven’s applause:
This is the happy Warrior; this is he
That every man in arms should wish to be.”
The former director of the CIA Michael Morell has decided to open up about his treasonous activities against POTUS: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-12-11/ex-spy-chief-admits-role-deep-state-intelligence-war-trump
It is not difficult to picture a treasonous plot against Trump, which has been run by the higher-ups in the CIA/DNC/FBI in violation of the US Constitution. It is quite possible that the ongoing investigation into the illegal leaks, as well as the malicious and dangerous slander (Russiangate), has been leading to Morell directly. What if this mega-crook has become scared?
Also, cannot wait to hear about the results of Seth Rich’ murder investigation and, even more important, about the discoveries re Awan affair. The latter should be spectacular, no doubts.
It pains me to see noble horses carrying such ignoble cowards.
Since I prefer to be a spectator of the committee rather than a regular contributor, I should start by reminding those who don’t remember me that I, myself, am Greek Orthodox. I confess, I know little about the Evangelicals, beyond the ill reputation afforded to them by the secular media, so I hope that some other correspondents can enlighten me. Before I continue, I’d like to quote a passage from “The Living Body of Christ”, a collection of works by Metropolitan Anthony of Sourozh:
“The very notions of heresy and schism imply a relationship to the Faith of the Church and a lasting relationship – however painful this may be – between the Church and those who have separated themselves from her. We do not accuse the Muslims or the Buddhists either of heresy or schism; they are simply strangers for us. To be heretical or schismatic, one has to be a Christian!”
Without elaborating, this has been one of the most formative statements I’ve ever read during the course of my life and has affected all of my interactions with other Christians since.
Notwithstanding the words I’ve quoted, we consider a Christian who forsakes his faith for, say, Islam, to be an apostate. Then there are those who call themselves Christian who we consider to be strangers: The Mormons, for example.
My question is, do the Evangelicals truly consider the Jews to be God’s chosen people? Because, if so, then they are surely strangers? The entire basis of the Christian faith is that God made a new covenant, with ALL of His children. The old covenant with Israel (exclusively) came to an end; The Jews are no longer God’s chosen (unless they wish to fulfil the new covenant). If the Evangelicals truly do believe that the Jews are God’s chosen people, then they cannot be a part of the Church (which includes Roman Catholics, Orthodox Catholics,and so on, irrespective of whether they are in direct communion with one another).
Can anyone elucidate their beliefs more accurately? Why do they think Christ came to us, if not to revoke the old covenant?
As I noted above, I’m Greek Orthodox. That said, I am ‘of the west’ and, after many years abroad (most spent in the middle east), my place of worship is once again in the west. Most of the members of the congregation of the church I attend are westerners (or are 2nd-3rd generation children of migrants who are thoroughly westernized).
I’ve noticed over the years, since the first NATO incursions into the Balkans, a growing perception among my fellow worshipers that the United States is at war with Orthodoxy. At first, that sentiment would be postulated by one or two of our more ‘passionate’ (read: Greek) members; Most of the congregation could be described as apolitical and paid little heed. But I hear those sentiments more often now, and they’re more generalized towards the United States being at war with Christianity in general. We’re very much aware of the plight of Christians in Iraq and now Syria (and Egypt), and had no doubt what the United States’ preferred outcome for the latter would have meant for them.
Of course, we knew about their plight because our own Church has close contacts with churches in those places. I don’t mean only the Eastern Orthodox Church but also those denominations that, while being apart from us, nonetheless are closer to us than they are with almost all western churches. We’ve prayed for them at every liturgy for years now, and received Syrian guests from time-to-time, so we could hardly forget them.
But if I look to the western media, I would know little of it: Which brings me to my point…
I’ve watched UK and US media coverage of the aftermath of the President’s announcement over the course of the past few days. Much of the focus was on the protests/riots (choose your poison) in Bethlehem.
At no point did any media outlet mention that almost 40% of Bethlehem’s population is Christian (down from 85% in 1947); or that its current and former Mayor’s are Christian. I saw a couple of interviews with Hanan Ashrawi during which her faith (Christian) wasn’t mentioned; Now, I’m not suggesting that every Palestinian should have their faith announced prior to an interview-proper but what struck me was that, as soon as the interviews were over, the anchors continued to push the narrative that this disagreement is one between Jews and Muslims, with Christians as mere spectators. It’s very clear to me that the media (in the US in particular) wants the western public to think that the Christian population of these places is negligible, if it exists at all. So who do westerners think are the descendants of those who listened to Christ as he gave His sermons? Us?
Let’s remind ourselves that the Holy See recognized the State of Palestine in 2015. Let’s recall that it supports the UN position that the Holy City be treated as a separate entity (corpus separatum). And the Orthodox (and pretty much every non-US based denomination, apart from the Ulster Scots presbyterians who believe they’re a ‘lost tribe’) agrees with the Church of Rome on this.
We Christians also have a stake in Jerusalem, and it would appear Trump wants to give our stake away, for nothing.
I believe in the separation of Church and State. I don’t expect, nor would I ever wish, for the United States to proclaim itself the defender of Christianity. But many of its citizens (and politicians) would present it as just that. Well, the overwhelming majority of the world’s Christians are watching what the US is doing and it’s actions don’t appear to be secular in nature at all – they appear to be in direct hostility towards Christians, on behalf of a sect (Evangelicals) which doesn’t appear to be Christian at all (see last post).
And anyone who buys Bibi’s nonsense about Christians being safer under his watch needs to go and watch how Israeli security has treated Christians celebrating events such as the Holy Fire… Christians didn’t move back to Palestine after Israel was born. In fact, they’ve left in their droves.
Eric
I have been reading SST for over a decade. I don’t recall many truly anti-Semitic comments. I have read however many hasbara comments. Col. Lang has created the space for many differing views. While I don’t agree with them all I have learned from them. IMO, questioning why the US needs to meddle in a millenia old religious conflict in the Middle East is not anti-Semitism. Asking what have we as,Americans gained in our ardor for the zionists does not imply that we support Muslim extremism? Our experience over the past decades where we have spent trillions at the behest of the zionists in intervening in the Middle East have brought us no discernable benefits. We can’t run national policy on the basis of emotions solely we have to make cold, hard calculations of our national interest not just the interests of the zionists.
You bring an important perspective to the discussion at SST. On this topic however I believe you have allowed your emotions to carry you. I can understand. This is highly emotional for all sides to the debate. And this is precisely why we are in this kind of trouble. As you may know I tend towards isolationism in foreign policy. I agree with Ron Paul and Pat Buchanan that we should focus our energy and capital on re-building here at home. And not destabilizing the rest of the world. That will come to bite us in the ass as the rest of the world slowly but surely will oppose us and begin to curtail our freedom of action.
Well said
I can’t understand why Jews prefer to use the world “Semitic” or precisely use “anti-Semitic” when labeling folks who don’t agree with Israel/Jews political view. To me Semitic has a racial tone, not referring only to Jews but also Arabs and other related people who share same family of languages and race. So why not label tham anti Jews? Maybe because to the westerners anti Jew will sound like a religious war instead of a racial war? Should we label Arabs and Palestinians who are fighting the Israelites anti- Semitic ?
There are DNA studies that indicate that the populations scattered across the world that consider themselves Jewish have distinctive and common features and thus could be considered a relatively distinct group.
But that genetic level distinction cannot be identified with what one considers to be racial characteristics – they are Jews with a very dark complexions – darker than mine and with kinkier hair than mine – as well as those with very North-European characteristics in terms of colors of skin, eye, hair and other such outwardly visible characteristics.
Significantly, the population with the least amount of genetic exchange with other population has been the Jewish Iranians.
When the economic war against Iran, led by such stalwarts of humanism as Germany and UK, Georgia, Greece, Armenia, Cyprus suffered.
No one in Diocletia cared one whit about them.
I take what you wrote as a given of history and human nature…a truism. Applicable, or not, to any time or place. A given between Nations, Peoples, or individuals. It says everything….it says nothing. People and situations are unpredictable.
There is a facscinating discussion of the origins of “cultures of honor” in sapolsky’s latest book Behave at around page 283. The gist is that pastoralist cultures (herders) (or those that originated as pastoralists) the world over share this honor/revenge mentality much more so than farming or other cultures. The American South is one such culture according to the work he cites.
Chris
So what did they herd in the Old South? Hogs? pl
Colonel,
FYI:
House Passes ‘Combating Anti-Semitism Act Of 2017’ To Expand Hate Crime Laws, Penalties
http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=57715
To the post war western european secular inspired mind, Anti-Jewish Anti -Muslim may not sound as moving as a racist label like anti-semitic could be, especially when “semitic ” on common non scholarly level is not being related or referenced to common heritage with Arabs and North Africans. Anti- semitic is used on daily bases only to subject the Jewish People, and not the rest of the same race. IMO this labeling has been carefully studied and chosen.
So you say, and that those were Orthodox, that Russia is Orthodox and that Western and Eastern Christianity had slugged it out for centuries is irrelevant and purely accidental?
Russian VESTI broadcast say Putin agrees with Turkish Erdogan that Trump made a hasty decision appointing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.
“descended from the Prophet.”
small caveat they are the descendants of hassan and sayids are descendants of husayn
Hamilcar,
I enjoyed reading your long posts, they hit a theme I have been pondering for a while, even though I am agnostic. My Great Grandfather said “I didn’t leave the Mormon church, the Mormon church left me”.
Rick Wiles and his “ministry” at trunews.com have been hammering away at Christian evangelicals and their delight in this latest Trump move to make Jerusalem a new world capital. He says they think they will be raptured up to heaven before TSHTF, and that they are ecstatic. He says this is Trumps voter base. He has a daily podcast and now a nightly TV news broadcast, perhaps you would find it of interest.
Recently James Perloff, a renounced jew, and respected author, announced he was joining the Orthodox church. Perloff, has done some great work on Historical Revisionism:
https://jamesperloff.com/2017/11/20/i-have-joined-the-eastern-orthodox-faith
Jay Dyer, an author I highly respect, also recently converted.
Of course, there’s Brother Nathaniel too.
I am telling you this because many “western” Christians are well aware that the Vatican is a corrupt cesspool that serves as a shining star to Washington, and the protestant churches across the US have been subsumed by the deep state to a degree approaching that of the KKK.
Recently, while recovering from Surgery, I was attended to by a Syrian Aramean whose family had been forced to flee the wrath of Israel. He had quite an interesting tale to tell, and it turns out that there is an Aramaic Orthodox Church set up in what was once a Roman Catholic Monestary not far from my home. Once I have recovered, I plan to go by and visit.
Remember the Liberty because Israel wants it buried.
They herded blue bellies. At least until Sherman and Sheridan turned it into a war of genocide.
poul
What do you call people descended from his daughters? pl
iirc only Fatima had children who also had children, all the other daughters children did not survive to reproduce
paul
I think that is not correct. Ruqqaya had a daughter by the Caliph Uthman. The daughter’s name was Aysha bint Uthman. she married the Caliph Marwan the first. pl
Islamic countries declare East Jerusalem capital of occupied Palestine | Middle East Eye
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/muslim-leaders-recognise-east-jerusalem-palestinian-capital-1608473002