“Who won the presidential debate? Donald Trump…” Telegraph

Ethics

"Without the usual rhetorical violence, a real dividing line emerged between the two men, the issue that this election was always going to be about, dating back to February.

It's the coronavirus, stupid. Mr Biden essentially believes the economy should be shut down if scientists demand it. Mr Trump essentially believes America has to "learn to live with it". If restrictions run too tough for too long, he said, "the cure will be worse than the problem itself" – something Britain is starting to come to terms with. 

Millions of independent voters, particularly those with small businesses or employed in the hospitality industry, have got to hear that and think "you know what, he has a point".

From Mr Trump's rare victory of style emerges a narrative for his re-election – late, really late: 50 million Americans have already voted by mail. But better now than never.

The case for Mr Trump is this: you know who he is; you know his faults. But those faults partly come from being an outsider – unlike Mr Biden – and for all his many, many character flaws, Mr Trump does now have a record and he is the candidate who wants to get the economy rolling again.

It was doing amazingly well before coronavirus and you can blame its collapse on China, not him. Perhaps he's the guy to recreate that boom and put the country back on its feet? Many polls still rate the economy and his handling of it, even after months of layoffs."  Telegraph

————–

Joe Biden employed a clever rhetorical device in responding to Trump's accusations of foreign corruption.  He said, "I have never accepted a single penny from a foreign source."  Sure! Hunter is holding the bag.

Joe's role as clan leader in what he understands to be a tribal world relieves him of the need to "hold" his own money.

The question remains of his palatial housing.  My guess would be that if you look at the title deeds you might find some interesting ownership.

The back and forth last night about character, corruption and ethics reminds me of this …

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am9vJidoy8Q&t=46s

pl

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/23/us-presidential-debate-won-trump-biden/

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30 Responses to “Who won the presidential debate? Donald Trump…” Telegraph

  1. Avatar Fred says:

    “Millions of independent voters, particularly those with small businesses or employed in the hospitality industry, have got to hear that and think “you know what, he has a point”.”
    Trump has been saying this for months. Those business owners know it is state and local orders that declared them ‘non-essential’ and forced them onto socialist welfare. A Biden victory means they’ll be at the mercy of local aparatchaks and unaccountable civil servants; and forced to wear the slave collars masks. They might as well put a Biden brand on it to show who owns you.
    Did anyone else notice Biden says he’s going to close down the oil industry?

  2. Avatar j. casey says:

    Very detailed and interesting report at baldingsworld.com on Biden family complex “activities” with China. Report titled “Project Time”.

  3. Avatar ked says:

    When a really important thing goes wrong across the life of almost all avg Americans, fair or not, the buck stops at the top. The Hunter Biden Controversy does not meet the criteria of an important thing to them. Rudy (if he wants to avoid being #1 on the Next To Be Fired list) needs to get out of the hotel room in Sacha Cohen’s movie and generate something that matters.

  4. Avatar Deap says:

    Biden walked into big time trouble after he first injected Rudy Guilliani into the debate – this allowed Trump to run with the Hunter Biden issues when the debate format wanted to avoid them.
    Biden blinked, Trump seized the moment. I want Trump on my team. The split camera showing both Trump and Biden talking and reacting told its own tale.
    Biden’s eyes look lifeless and hollow. (Drugs?) Trump was animated and engaged. The body language was a far better way for Trump to “interrupt” Biden when he laid out his whoppers yet again. We got it.

  5. Avatar Fred says:

    ked,
    When the local government declares that my business ‘non essential’ or mandates how it is run the mayor’s office is where the buck stops. When the police ‘stand down’ during a riot, the mayor’s office is where the buck stops. When the Governor refuses to hold the mayor to account or order in the national guard to stop rioting the governor’s office is where the buck stops. When the employess of the government saboutage the elected president – you do recall all three years of Russia! don’t you? – they are where the buck stops, not the President.
    The Hunter Biden Corruption is precisely what is important to them as it highlights the systemic corruption of the professional political and governmental elites, just as the Wuhan virus and all opposition to Trump’s actions prove how incompetent and corrupt those elites are. Rudy, the most successful prosecutor of organized crime leaders in our history, is not hampered by a team of Mueller insiders who leak live a sieve and erase 31 phones worth of evidence by accident – simultaneously.
    Rudy is accountable to Trump and can’t be saboutaged by the corrput ‘deap state’ or bribed by the Chinese. The sh**’s real and all the collusive coverup of these revelations won’t make the story go away or get Joe elected. As icing on that cake remember that every celebrity listed on the Jeffrey Epstein flight logs has endorsed Joe and Kamala.

  6. Avatar Diana L Croissant says:

    We know in our state which has not been as badly affected by the virus as others–especially back East–that it’s our leftist governor who is restricting our lives with mandatory mask orders and other restrictions. He’s a product of Colorado University and the Boulder mindset which has always been far left–especially since we were “Californicated” way back during the Dot-com recession that sent leftists from California here because our housing prices were much lower and since we also had a computer industry of sorts in Boulder. Some in our state call Boulder “forty square miles surrounded by reality.”
    But the Boulder/Denver triangle has the population which allows them often to dominate our politics.
    A popular mask worn around here has a printed message on the front: “I’m wearing this mask because my Governor is an Idiot.”

  7. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Ked,
    IMO you are wrong as can be. Maybe you hang out with a different set than I do, but I find that Biden’s corruption and hypocrisy are seen by many as an example of everything that’s wrong in DC, that bringing the country down and how the media is complicit – think about how they have persecuted the outsider Trump over much lesser matters and totally fabricated matters.
    I also find that most people I talk to are smart enough to know that there really isn’t anything more that Trump can do regarding covid. They know he’s not responsible for it (it’s all over the world, after all) and that keeping the economy shut down isn’t the answer. They further understand that Trump isn’t a dictator and under the Constitution the governors play a major role in how the virus situation is handled.
    The democrat/media complex can gaslight a susceptible and/or politically motivated proportion of the population for a while, but there is a huge swath of the citizenry that either never bought into it or have come to see it for what it is at this point.
    IMO, there is going to be a huge mental health crisis in this country when Trump is re-elected. People who live in the liberal bubble are so completely unaware that people thinking like me exist in large numbers, perhaps a majority. Their reality is going to be so totally shattered that they are going to go insane; literally.
    But keep hand waving away reality for another couple weeks if it makes you feel better.

  8. Avatar Dan says:

    “It’s gettin’ so a businessman can’t expect no return from a fixed fight. Now, if you can’t trust a fix, what can you trust?“

  9. Avatar ponderer says:

    @ked
    It’s interesting that when it comes to impeachment of Trump, not only is the actions of those in his family relevent, but even those on the periphery of his campaign. These are the people that the IC tried to implicate and entrap. The hypocrisy of some partisans is baffling. I think 40 years of political corruption is more important to most Americans than you think. Especially using your children as bagmen is appalling even to suburban Soccer moms. I only hope that the election results are seen by the Trump DOJ as a mandate to enforce the laws equally, even for the Bidens.

  10. Avatar Bob Suden says:

    Donald listened to – or at least let Dr. F and Birx talk for far too long. Atlas is a breath of fresh air and common sense – finally.
    IOW if Joe is 100% bs, Don is only 50%. You take what you can get and run with it.

  11. Avatar akaPatience says:

    “I have never accepted a single penny from a foreign source.”
    Not a SINGLE penny, but apparently many many many many more. Obama used the same figure of speech when he claimed health insurance costs wouldn’t increase due to the ACA/Obamacare, except the coinage was different (a “single dime” IIRC). In my case, my health insurance costs increased 40% the first year alone – many many many many dimes, as it were.
    This is the semantic sleight of hand of scoundrels with a JD.
    Trump won the debate, hands down, even though the moderator’s questions were almost entirely from a leftist’s perspective of what matters most. Plus, Biden may be only a couple of years older than Trump, but his appearance and demeanor are undeniably feeble, even though Trump recently suffered the Black Death. The POTUS has been doing several rallies nearly every day, plus working in Washington, DC right up to debate time. Joe’s been in seclusion for many days (and most of his so-called campaign) and yet he seemed much less vital. Besides everything else that’s objectionable about him, he’s just not fit enough for the job.
    PS – I guess Joe’s hoping that voters will be fooled because he didn’t declare graft on his income tax returns.

  12. Avatar optimax says:

    Joe obviously never gave Hunter the talk.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDXN7T3-Jrg

  13. Avatar james says:

    @ ked… i am always mystified at what is an important ‘thing’ to the american public… from my read, foreign policy isn’t one of them… no matter how insane usa foreign policy to the rest of the people on the planet that suffer the direct consequences of it, i am told it matters not to the average american.. the issue of biden and ukraine is like a non starter, in spite of the fact the dynamic of ukraine 2014, nulands free cookies and etc etc – upended a country that continues to struggle to find its place on the international stage… they got sucked into having a type of romance with the usa and west, only to be rejected at the alter and left in a funny limbo… but of course this matters not to your average american, as they don’t suffer the consequences of usa meddling…
    i guess i am saying i don’t agree with your viewpoint and would like to think more of the ordinary american, then how you have painted them out to be…

  14. Avatar james says:

    should have hit the refresh button.. i see some others have challenged ked in their viewpoint as well..

  15. Avatar turcopolier says:

    james
    I have come to like you, sort of. I now think of you as playing Viola in an obscure Victoria based string quintet. Unfortunately, you still have an unclear understanding of the world. Canada can afford to have a “nohingburger” foreign policy because it has no enemies and is protected from musk oxen, etc. by the US by virtue of our propinquity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viola

  16. Avatar james says:

    thanks pat… and i have come to like you more as well! lets hope this trend continues! i did play cello for a time.. it was the first instrument i played! while i enjoy string quartet music, i am far removed from that at the moment!
    i would agree with you on my unclear understanding of the world… it is a work in progress and probably permanently skewed because of my personality which according to my wife is like a throw back to some scottish highland type personality that is constantly at war with authority figures… but speaking on learning more of the world i am just finishing up a good read of putins speech yesterday which others might also enjoy – http://en.special.kremlin.ru/catalog/keywords/47/events/64261
    as for canada’s foreign policy – that is mostly true, but i find myself very annoyed with the direction canada is going.. take the issue of bolivia and how canada went along wtih the OAS agenda… i find canada does that same stupid moves that the usa does regularly.. one could say we have to side with the usa on much, but i personally don’t see it that way…
    https://www.thenation.com/article/world/bolivia-elections-trump-democracy/
    thanks for saying all that pat… you made me feel more welcome.. i will try not to say stupid things as often!

  17. Avatar ked says:

    James, I didn’t paint them that way… the “American Public” has always been isolationist (geography!) & exceptionalist (praise Jesus!) & even pragmatic within their range of action – especially when it comes to foreign policy. Our elites liked it that way too & made hay maintaining the status quo (with a benevolent thumb on the scale). Post WWII the US rise to imperial power has changed that… slowly but surely. While it’s getting harder to hide truth from the common man, we’re still pretty good at keeping ‘em happy down on the farm… farming… where the seem to like the lifestyle & image, if not the return. cheers,

  18. Avatar ked says:

    Fred, Great response… take it to the great unwashed who are going to boot Trump back to a golf course somewhere… one he “owns”, so he can cheat unhindered.
    Eric, I definitely hang out w/ a different bunch of people. Their mental health condition is not dependent upon the political winds, so worry not.
    Ponderer, I’m all for equal application of the laws. Should be no problem for the hard right to take down Biden once he’s elected.

  19. Avatar Deap says:

    Ked, what do you hear when you hear the phrase the United States of America is “exceptional”?
    Do you think is a description of its remarkable and original form of governance, untried anywhere else in modern states and modern times? Or do you hear the term a unearned boastfulness and jingoistic arrogance?
    Then tell us why you associated the term with “Praise Jesus”. Shades of Barry Soetoro’s religion and guns bitter clingers slur. Thnx.

  20. Avatar ked says:

    Deal, don’t present me either or choices – those are yours, not mine.
    Depends on who is speaking (context) because it’s meaning ranges in our history from the City Upon A Hill through Manifest Destiny to the Ugly American… & more.
    I think the significant “exceptions” in our history to be geography & timing. All else is an excuse to ignore human nature & science. Oh, & to be sanctimonious about our self-ascribed special status.
    The biggest threat to America is internal – it is the fundamentalist drive – leveraging the imperfect architecture of our founding as a means to introduce theocracy. This movement and its God-ordained exceptionalism is far more dedicated to the disassembly of the American Experiment than any other threat our nation has faced. Trump was mere tool, Biden a joke.

  21. Avatar turcopolier says:

    ked
    How did you get to be so bigoted against religious people? Are you a preacher’s kid?

  22. Avatar james says:

    @ ked… okay, thanks for your response.. i am going to say the written medium is sometimes hard to convey what a person thinks.. i would need more info to really appreciate where you are coming from and i can’t get it just off these words on the page.. i will however repeat what i first said to you – it is never wise to underestimate the intelligence of others! cheers james

  23. Avatar ked says:

    Col, I am in no way bigoted against religious people – you misread me. I am highly aware of the organized political strategy of many fundamentalist / evangelical institutions in America. There is a big difference between people as spiritual beings & religious institutions. And you are probably aware of how Bibi has influenced US foreign policy through politicized fundamentalist / evangelical domestic orgs. There is no separation between church & state… it’s just an convention.
    There has long been a recognition of the goals & impact of theocracy-seeking religious organizations on our political system. I am surprised you are not aware of Dominionism, the Seven Mountains Mandate, The Fellowship, Focus on the Family … the list is extensive, the trend is strong.
    One could start with Kevin Phillips (famous for crafting Nixon’s Southern Strategy) “Theocracy in America” as intro. Here’s an older overview with links:
    http://www.brucegourley.com/christiannation/theocracy.htm
    & also;
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family:_The_Secret_Fundamentalism_at_the_Heart_of_American_Power
    For an up-to-date discussion (best I’ve read in some time);
    https://billmoyers.com/story/new-podcast-the-shadow-network/
    I’m a product of Roman Catholic & Primitive / Southern Baptist traditions. I’ve lived & worshiped across America. I take the role of faith, spirit & emotion in the life of America as a very powerful agent. Rather than name me biased, point out evidence (just a link or two would do) of how I’m so completely mistaken about my conclusion. Thanks.

  24. Avatar Fred says:

    Ked,
    “take it to the great unwashed who are going to boot Trump back to a golf course somewhere”
    I, like Joe, know that it matters more who counts the votes than who actually votes:
    https://twitter.com/MikeKellyforPA/status/1320119765571162113
    And from the streets of Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, and even San Bernadino, a people worthy of Biden and Kamala arise in righoutousness, fists raised, hands out.
    https://twitter.com/livesmattershow/status/1319827958115098624?
    https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/black-lives-matter-occupies-seattle-trader-joes-demands-15-percent-be-given-to-black-communities/
    Will you be working with the Kamala administration, or just ordering more popucorn to watch what she does to those who didn’t kneel in submission?

  25. Avatar ked says:

    James, & not to overestimate the IQ of others, either. Thus, good manners. I have found over almost 8 decades that IQ, education, income, wisdom & manners are not necessarily positively correlated.
    Fred, All Votes Matter. You’d think the most powerful nation in human civilization could figure out how to count them fairly too.
    I think the most vengence-seeking pres since Nixon has gotta be Trump. That style doesn’t come off well in the long run. For him, that doesn’t matter… for a younger pro like Kamala, it does. Image Matters Too.
    I do my civic thing locally now (my DC office, just around the corner from the Army Navy Club, shut down in ‘04). I focus on making simple things better for my grandchildren. Sometimes I offer free advice to those in gov about the virtue of pragmatism, tolerance, consensus-building & the poison of extremist ideologies.
    Best,

  26. Avatar Fred says:

    Ked,
    The fraudulent votes matter most to Biden/Harris, they can’t win without them.

  27. Avatar ked says:

    Fred, that’s an assertion unsupported by independent analysis. in fact, independent analysis is that the “fraudulent election!” trope is a red herring. My own assertion is that the idea is promulgated by those for whom demographic trends in US electorate represent a transcendent threat to their political power.
    https://www.brennancenter.org/issues/ensure-every-american-can-vote/vote-suppression/myth-voter-fraud

  28. Avatar turcopolier says:

    ked
    What is “independent analysis?” I hope you are right because in that case Trump wins and NP is sent home to her ice cream.

  29. Avatar Fred says:

    Ked,
    You mean like this long list of problems that doesn’t meet your personal definition of fraud:
    a) Election results in the 2016 primary were posted on the elections office’s website before polls closed, another violation of election law.
    b) In 2012, almost 1,000 uncounted ballots were discovered a week after the election
    There’s more here:
    https://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/politics/fl-ne-who-is-brenda-snipes-20181109-story.html
    Lots of documented stuff here:
    https://www.heritage.org/voterfraud-print/search

  30. Avatar ked says:

    Col, It’s all relative. My own working standard is;
    – absent ideological or a priori bias,
    – disclosure of bias,
    – transparency about relationships to source-providers, motives, sources of funds, background of analysts,
    – rejection of reward linked to the effort or results of the work product.
    One could argue that is impossible to achieve true independence … that all in the game are connected & subject to bias. In that case one can seek the “most independent appearing of all available sources” (comparative test). Kinda a version of the Animal Farm test; “all analysis is dependent upon external influence, some are just less dependent than others.”

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