""Unlike Donald Trump, I will not pander to the gun lobby," Clinton said during a keynote speech at the Trayvon Martin Foundation's Circle of Mothers dinner. "We will not be silenced and we will not be intimidated."
Clinton made the comments a day after Trump was endorsed by the National Rifle Association.
"Parents, teachers, and schools should have the right to keep guns out of classrooms, just like Donald Trump does at many of his hotels, by the way," she said. "This is someone running to be president of the United States of America, a country facing a gun violence epidemic, and he's talking about more guns in our schools."" nbcnews
——————-
Well… NRA has five million members and is in very sound shape financially. It is a member oriented, gun owner oriented group. It receives the great bulk of its funds through membership dues and some as well from gun manufacturer advertising in NRA publications such as "The American Rifleman." The gun manufacturers have their own trade association. There seems to be a generalized phenomenon in which the more anti-gun people like HC and Obama try to create impediments to gun ownership, the more NRA grows in numbers of members. There is a general belief in the US that when the anti-gun people say that their ultimate goal is "reasonable restrictions on gun ownership," they lie. IMO and that of most gun owners, the anti-gun people who say this really want a process that leads eventually to general confiscation or limitations that amount to the same thing. Hillary seems to be running on the basis that men, and particularly white men do not matter and that she will be elected by women, racial minorities, the far left, the media the LGBT "community," etc. This seems short sighted. The US is not the UK, Australia, Japan, or Canada when the issue of gun ownership is in play. There are about 100 million gun owners in the US. That is about a third of the population. Roughly 5 % of gun owners belong to NRA. That fairly low participation rate is not IMO reflective of a lack of sympathy for NRA. IMO the gun owning public generally supports NRA's political efforts but most people would rather not pay dues and are content to wait, watch and then vote. For HC to bait gun owners by associating them rhetorically with a loser like Zimmerman, the South Carolina lunatic and the mad boy at New Town is so provocative a thing to do that it will certainly cost her a lot of votes. In all those particular cases the guns involved were legally purchased and background checked. If that does not suffice what would suffice for HC?
OTOH, Trump's now passionate defense of the 2nd Amendment is so obviously opportunistic that it too can easily seen as pandering to his audience at the NRA convention.
But, pilgrims, gun owners can read HC's passion on this subject clearly, very clearly. pl
Well, so she will not pander to the NRA. That doesn’t mean that there are not many other groups, just as small and just as specific in a specialized interest, to which she will pander. Pandering, in fact, is her specialty. She goes to a convention of preschool teachers and talks at length about how, if elected president, she will create a program to provide free pre-kindergarden for all children.
The concern over what “reasonable” gun control measures would look like is justified. NY was always anti-gun, but after the Newton tragedy, Gov. Cuomo (D) showed us what phase 1 of the anti-gun strategy would be when he rammed the SAFE act through state legislature.
“Assault” weapons are banned. Anything that looks like a military weapon cannot be sold in the state. Pre-SAFE Act owners of these weapons had to register them within one year of enactment. Failure to do so is a crime ( a felony). They are grandfathered in for now. Anyone bringing such a weapon into NY post-enactment is committing a crime.
Magazine capacity for all guns (long and short) was originally limited to 7 rounds. Being in possession of a magazine with > 7 round capacity was a crime. Because the 7 round limit caused a lot of guns to be rendered useless (impossible or very difficult to find a 7 round mag for many guns and an associated court case was scheduled) the limit was upped to 10 rounds capacity.
A citizen of NY state has to beg for a permit to be allowed to own a handgun; not carry, but even own and keep on one’s property. The permit can – and usually will be denied – on the slightest of excuses (e.g. a misdemeanor conviction for anything, even many years in the past, a family member who could possibly gain access to the gun with any legal issues in the past). All handguns to be permitted are registered by serial number with the local sheriff’s dept as well as the state. If you have a permit, but a handgun not specifically listed on it, that is a crime. You will lose your permit, your guns and may well do jail time. It is a felony with a mandatory minimum 3 1/2 years in prison to be in possession of a handgun without the permit anywhere in the state.
It is virtually impossible for a normal citizen to obtain a permit within New York City limits. It is a felony for a permitted owner in one of the outlying counties to bring a handgun into NYC.
It is a serious crime (a felony? can’t recall) to be in possession of a magazine, for any gun, with a capacity > 10 anywhere in the state.
There are restrictions on the amount of ammunition that can be purchased at any time. You must show ID and get entered into a database if you are purchasing more than a hundred rounds at a time.
It just goes on and on, page after page. I happen to know that many good people are now de facto felons because of the SAFE Act. They just haven’t been caught yet with the contents of their attics, basements and other caches.
The Association of NY Sherriff’s has declared the SAFE Act unenforceable because they know they would have to arrest so many upstanding members of communities, some their own relatives and friends. But the down state left see this as a wet dream come true. Almost, the next move is total ban of all semi-automatic guns. It is only the large hunting constituency that keeps a total ban from occurring. The left recognizes that, politically, lever, bolt and pump action must be allowed or the hunters would totally turn on them.
I believe that Clinton and her ilk would like to see the SAFE Act implemented nationwide.
Sir,
AFAIK Trump has always been a 2A supporter. I’m pleased to see he’s making the argument so many others have IRT to elites who want to disarm YT, specifically “If guns are so bad, why do you surround yourself with bodyguards armed with guns?” and telling her “You first” when it comes to disarming.
Hillary has decided to lose on the “invite violent foreigners and disarm the native populace” platform. November is going to be a blowout, even with the monolithic herd voting of blacks.
Tyler
http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/05/03/ted-cruz-schools-trump-supporter-trumps-horrible-2nd-amendment-record/
“Trump fully supported the 1994 “assault weapons” ban of Bill Clinton, which would ban many of the most common firearms sold in the United States, such as the AR-15. Trump in fact cited his support of the ban in his book The America We Deserve.”
pl
Colonel, sorry if repetitive, but IMO and unfortunately at the end, in the democratic convention, eventually HRC will bunk with Bernie and win the election, if they win Florida and Ohio this thing is over.
kooshy
“if they win Florida and Ohio this thing is over” I missed it! When was the election? I doubt that you actually understand how many Americans feel about the 2nd Amendment. Perhaps you should talk to people not from Southern California or NY City. pl
Southern California might surprise you too, Orange and San Diego counties at least and the less populous inland empire. Might be urban myth but I’ve head that OC has among the highest ownership rates in the country. A lot of active Navy and Marine folks around here too.
Sir, That is a painful revelation (what Trump said about the assault weapons ban).
He has more recently said (2014), “You have the SAFE Act, which is a total catastrophe. It’s hard to believe it even got passed. Look, you’re sitting at home and a bad guy walks in with a gun. At least you want to have a shot at it, right? You don’t want to be defenseless… But this SAFE Act is a disaster. Whoever ultimately is going to be the nominee for the Republicans, they better bring it up very loud and clear because that act is a catastrophe. I call it the unSAFE Act.”
Is it “pandering” if one’s position evolves over time to better fit the reality on the ground? Moreover, is it not the job of those wishing to be elected officials to represent the views and wants of constituents? Where is the line between pandering and representing?
Would Trump attain office partly on a strong pro-2A platform and then back pedal?
I think that making gun control an issue of hers in this election is absolute folly on Hillary’s part. It cannot possibly win her a single vote which she would not have gotten anyway.
SoCal Rhino
Thanks for the correction. pl
Re – your point about eventual “far left” support for Hillary. If Hillary does in fact win the nomination, it is likely that Bernie will support her. How enthusiastically is another question. But Bernie is not his supporters and it is an open question as to whether even a majority of them would support Hillary.
Sir,
Did not know that. OTOH I don’t see him being in favor of that sort of thing any more.
Noone,
The good thing about Trump is that he’s pissed off so many of the Borgists that he has to go through with his plans or impeachmentat the first opportunity is lurking.
James,
Hillary is running as the identity politics candidate. This thing makes sense, I guess, if you live in a bubble.
Ditto your comment. I think progressive left in the Democratic Party is ready to sit out this election if Hillary becomes the candidate — they might be supporting him but they are not willing to follow him over that cliff. The “far left” which have abandoned the Dems already will vote third party and, I have seen signs of this in California, even vote for Trump. This is the case For those lefties that have foreign policy as a higher priority than social issues.
I have to agree with pl that Hillary is making a big mistake pushing this gun regulation so forcefully — I have not met that many people who hold the antigun issue as a high priority certainly not high enough to let it influence their vote. Hillary is the probable Dem nominee even if she loses the California primary against Sanders.However, if she does it will be a major political blow going into the general election. So for those of you registered as a dem or declined to state (call yourself independent, with a small i not capital I) you can vote your feelings on this gun issue by voting for Sanders.
HRC is against gun ownership, period. I believe she thinks the 2nd Amendment is wrong and would do everything she could to see it repealed.
That along with her more government is better plus involvement in the classified documents fiasco and other shady dealing should be enough to keep the great unwashed in the vast flyover country she seems unaware of to keep her out of office.
As an aside I just read the super PC school system of Oregon has decided to ban any textbooks that have any indication of non support of global warming.
Pj,
I don’t think Bernie supporters will come out for Hillary. They will vote Trump or stay home.
How many people who get all riled up over the 2nd Amendment voted for Obama? Probably zero (or very few) – the same amount who will vote for Hillary. While this may be an important issue to some people it will have zero effect on the election as most of the people who worry about this have no intention of voting for Hillary anyway. If anything, it will force those people who are undecided and upset about all the guns to go with Hillary.
Trump screwed this one up. He had the votes of the people in that room whether he made that speech or not.
Correct. I think the far left has had enough and will NOT support her. The right wing demagogues can call her a lefty all they want but all they do is expose how uninformed they are. She is pure status quo and that ain’t lefty. The left doesn’t have any power and hasn’t for A long time. That whole lefr/right thing is just another shiny object for short attention span folk to chase after.
The smartest people I read on the net prefer Trump totally on a foreign policy basis. Smart people realize there is nothing in Syria worth glowing in the dark for.
GCP
I voted for Obama twice (faute de mieux) and am a life member of NRA. I must remember to send them more money for their political work. pl
How many people do you think are like you in your state? Enough to swing it to Trump? Based solely on guns? You may be correct but I highly doubt it. Hillary may well lose but it won’t be because of her stance on guns and the 2nd Amendment. It will be because she is an overall poor candidate and many Democrats like myself are sick of the Clinton’s. I’m not one who thinks Bubba did all that great of a job.
Colonel: IMHO fools like this lady are a more important reason Hillary MAY lose than anything having to do with guns.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-debbie-wasserman-schultz_us_5740c0cee4b045cc9a713056
GCP
Have you no awareness of the composition of the General Assembly? Do you think it is an accident that the Republicans hold both houses and that McCauliffe has been powerless to enact anything? the Republicans do not hold the governor’s mansion here because they keep nominating idiots that no one likes. Debbie? Yes, well she is a burden that HC relishes. Will guns alone cost HC the election” No, but the process is cumulative. HC’s depiction on SNL last night is indicative of the way this thing is going. Better than the bar scene was the high school play in which the SNL people sobered up enough to recognize all that PC crap for what it is, juvenile. pl
Yes GCP, Trump has locked up the votes in PA, OH, WV and the rest of the Rust Belt while Hillary panders to elite bicoastals and blacks who vote for her in 95% blocs anyway.
She’s going to lose and lose YUGE. Big Grandma is going down.
Sanders would have been a threat, IMO, if he had adopted Trump’s immigration common sense and stood up to Black Lies Matter.
This campaign is about the economy and order. If Sanders had adopted an “America First” plan, he’d have put this thing to bed a while ago running on FDR style populism. Instead he bowed to identity politics and adopted the mantra of the “Coalition of the Fringes” as Steve Sailer puts it, held together by its hatred of white hetero men.
How’s he going to run against Trump’s enforce the law and anti globalist themes? “No we need to invite more 80 IQ peons over here and ship your jobs to China, but everyone gets free college just cuz?”
Trump blew apart the GOP. The Democrats are going to be a generation or two realizing they can’t square the circle of a prosperous nation with fringe identity politics.
“This seems short sighted.”
I think your lack of cynicism must be tongue-in-cheek.
A more cynical view risks charges of ‘conspiracy theory’. But really, aren’t neolib cronyism and neocon theories of governance fundamentally conspiracies against the rest of us?
<> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <> <>
Hey, anyone remember Fast and Furious?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Fast_and_Furious
“As a result of a dispute over the release of Justice Department documents related to the scandal, Attorney General Eric Holder became the first sitting member of the Cabinet of the United States to be held in contempt of Congress on June 28, 2012. Earlier that month, President Barack Obama had invoked executive privilege for the first time in his presidency over the same documents.”
That started earlier on in this primary season, when she thought it electorally useful to portray Sanders as not sufficiently in favor of gun control.
Pandering all around: during the 2008 primaries, she decided on the opposite strategy–she was now the 2nd amendment advocate, while Obama was the one going to take guns away.
The best thing to come out of that was Obama’s statement that “she’s acting like she’s out in the duck blind every Sunday.” He saw through it.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/oct/5/clinton-gun-control-view-drastic-departure-2008/
Bernie to Hillary: “You’re likeable enough”.
Colonel, IMO this election like the last two is not and will not be about the second amendment, otherwise Obama wouldn’t get elected. IMO, specially this election, is about younger generation, not the baby boomers. If the young who mostly support Bernie, come out , it would be hard for Trump to win, with only the republican’ base support, specially when his own party bosses are not only fully supporting him, but trying to run him off. I think the democrats will wine the CA. unless we have a republican like Reagan running, the point is that Latinos don’t like Trump. Orange, San Diego, Inland counties combined doesn’t equate LA county which is the most populated county in the nation.
kooshy
IMO you are blinded by living in the land of the lotus eaters. what do you really know of the US? pl
jackrabbit
Understatement is a personal defect. pl
Kooshy,
What lah tee nos do you know? Cause the ones I work with, live next to, and encounter everyday are pretty ardent Trump supporters. I’m pretty sure they are more representative of hispanics than the Professional Hispanics with blue eyes on TV.
Colonel Lang, I hope you don’t think I just got off the boat here, my Staten Island moment came back in 72. Ever since Reagan, I have voted for the winer of US presidential election except for Gore, I refused to vote for Barack, since I smelled phony from the get go. This time I plan to go out and vote for Trump to stop Hillary, even if she pulls Bernie in for closet VP. There are not many in Ca who think that way.
Sanders may be pro-immigration, but he is against free trade. Not only does he oppose TTIP and TPP, but back in the day he even voted against NAFTA.
Seamus Padraig
To paraphrase Adam Smith – Free trade is good when it benefits you. Free trade in the Borgist sense benefits the investor class – like me. pl
Okay so filling blue collar jobs with Somali refugees and Central American aliens is a winning argument how?
I have a few working for me, some for over 24 years. They know I wouldn’t vote for HRC, still they say no to Trump because of the wall, they are woried coyotes will raise the price, even with just talking about the wall.
“Far Left”?
I was unaware that US had a “Far Left” of any significant size.
Are not the “Bicoastals” creatures of USG taxation policies that bled the American Midwest and turned it into the Rust Belt?
Would they then not want more government rather than less?
That’s what you said about Romney. How did that work out for you?
Tyler wrote: ‘How’s he going to run against Trump’s enforce the law and anti globalist themes?’
Isn’t Trump the guy who’s selling Trump steaks and ties made in China?
If I recall correctly we had a similar conversation before the last election. The makeup of assemblies have little relevance to the actual election when Democrats fail to show up in off year elections. The gerrymandering (both locally and nationally) hides the fact that Democrats get more votes nationally for congressional (assembly) elections than Republicans even though they hold less seats. That’s why the Republicans keep losing national elections.
I didn’t get to see SNL although I agree there could be a cumulative effect on Hillary. Of course, the D’s haven’t even begun going after Trump so let’s wait a couple months when this thing gets going to make definitive predictions.
Politicians who oppose freedom of gun ownership and use (which use would be within societal limits) run a real risk. I have mentioned here before what happened when the very popular Texas Governor Ann Richards, who was elected in 1990 after having been State Treasurer and having been around Texas politics, decided for an unknown reason to veto a concealed carry handgun bill passed buy the legislature. I could not believe it, but there she stood at a vetoing ceremony, predictably with a group of police chiefs behind her, and vetoed the bill. She had done politically useful things previously, such as going bird hunting, and had extensive support until that time. Then, a person named George W. Bush said he was going to run for governor, and that if elected he would sign the concealed carry bill into law.
A friend who ran the office for Gov. Richards’ appointments secretary where all the political appointees for the governor’s appointments were decided on and approved, left that office in 1994 to help full-time with Gov. Richards’ re-election campaign. When Richards lost the race for re-election to Bush jr., my friend called me and said, “We lost the white men over 40”. That, of course, came from vetoing the handgun bill.
Before that destructive error, Ann Richards was on the way. She had become known nationally in a very favorable way, plus she had the silver hair, the strong Southern matriarch’s voice, and so on. Although she probably would not have entered the Democratic primary for president in 1996, had she done so in 2000, she would have gone on to be the first female president of the U.S. She would have won overwhelmingly in the South. The California people loved her, and for those in flyover country, she was everyone’s favorite aunt or grandmother. But history became history.
However, Hillary is not off track in thinking that she will get a lot of women to vote for her because she is female. Nevertheless, gun owners and people who believe in gun rights are motivated and will get out and work and vote.
It will be a contest.
no one, better do your research. There is almost no opinion that Trump voices that he has not said exactly the opposite either in print or recorded. He reverses himself almost daily. HC indeed changes her mind but her trajectory of opinions is quite similar over time. To me, Trump is a very scary proposition because he does not seem to have a set of core beliefs over the course of his public career–except $$$$ and babes. voting for the President of the US should not be a crap shoot.
What is the line between pandering and representing? Leadership. And, BTW, Trump has never represented anyone else…EVER. So you have no idea…
GCP
She will be discredited in the eyes of women as a human before this is over. That process has not yet really begun. I cannot imagine why she thinks she can run. pl
Laura
Trump’s defects mean nothing. The election will be about her. pl
GCP
I see. Legislatures are gerrymandered and corrupt when the Republicans win. pl
Tyler, perhaps you need to consider what it looks like to women voters when a loud-mouthed misogynist is also loudly pro-gun. I’m not sure we have had this combination for this office before…
Misogynist (n) : someone who disagrees with a liberal woman
Looking at Trump’s romances, seems he likes women quite a bit.
Laura,
Please put up or shut up with examples. Tia
Kooshy,
So you hire illegals?
What’s the name of your business? Asking for a friend.
GCP,
I never said that about Romney, you lying little sh-t. I wrote in Ron Paul.
GCP,
You make steaks in China how?
All
We are early in this cycle so there will be plenty time to see how Trump and Hillary get the knives out and fight.
Now, I may be biased in my analysis since I’m definitely in the “Not voting for Hillary under any circumstance” camp.
IMO, this will not be a standard issue general election. The campaign will be different. Trump is not going to go toe to toe on wonky policy details. He is going to focus on emotion and the fact that the bottom 90% have been falling behind for decades. The takeover by the elites really picked up steam under Reagan and got fully cemented under Bubba when Glass-Steagall got repealed and blue collar jobs got shipped overseas with a vengeance as NAFTA and MFN for China were passed on Bubba’s insistence. Dubya finalized the ziocon takeover of foreign policy begun under Reagan and strengthened by Bubba. Barack Hussein continued the Bubba/Dubya tenure by running out the clock on the bankster criminality and insuring the Bubba/Dubya permanent war continued for all 8 years of his presidency.
Trump for all his flaws will be considered an outsider. That is going to be a huge asset against the Borg Queen who is the ultimate insider. The Borg Queen will get the overwhelming percentage of blacks despite they being screwed big time by Bubba and possibly a large percentage of Latinos too. The question is how many white women and Asians she gets?
I think the combination of a strong showing among Republican partisans plus independents and pulling many blue collar white Democrats will allow Trump to be competitive in what is considered traditional Democrat states. The electoral college math will be different due to the voting blocks that he will attract. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that Trump got more votes than Romney in such a crowded primary race with the majority of the attack funds arrayed against him. He destroyed Borg favorites Jeb and Marco. Labels like Crooked Hillary and the visuals that Hillary may need adult diapers elicit a visceral and subliminaly emotive response. The average American voter is not a super rational thinker. They will be highly susceptible to Trump’s message and demeanor of “we’ll make America great again”.
This will no doubt be a fascinating campaign and election. Since I’m sufficiently cynical I don’t hold out much prospect for change whatever the election outcome as the Borg is so entrenched and can only be defeated through a revolution.
You could reasonably equate Bernie’s vote with the far left. And don’t be misled by the raw vote totals, many of his wins have been in caucus states, which have far lower voter participation, but are still a reasonable approximation of voter intent.
Laura, It doesn’t matter if Trump has reversed himself here or there. He’s willing to make deals on issues that are of low priority to him; like guns. He doesn’t care one way or the other. Maybe he’s even thought more deeply about it and adjusted his opinion over time. Colonel Lang calls it pandering. I think that is too harsh.
Anyhow, it doesn’t matter because what counts is that Trump is not Hillary and he’s not a cuckolded fool or a lefty. On that alone he wins.The gun support, pandering or otherwise, is another of Trump’s means of showing that.
That is what you don’t understand because your men are all cuckolded (or it’s your fantasy that they would be). You’re blinded by that.
To complete the point:
If Hillary is going run on Obama’s record and with his support, she should have to explain his failings too – like ‘Fast and Furious’. (As well as many others: no prosecutions for the Global Financial Crisis; failures of HAMP – ostensibly meant to help homeowners; IRS scandal, and many more.)
>> ATF was warned about the program but went ahead anyway.
>> Holder said that the Justice Department had no involvement but it was later discovered that they did(!) – leading to Obama’s shuting down any investigation by invoking executive privilege.
Not all Latinos are illegal, my employees are all legal, illegals mostly work for farm and construction industry cash business, the housing, and food that are still affordable. Majority of Latinos in general, at least in calif. vote for democrats.
While I understand the uproar in the US, the above described method is standard procedure in most European countries. Even serving military / police officers are having trouble having their own gun at home.
One saying comes to mind. Unarmed citizens are subjects.
Balint Somkuti
Could we start a branch of NRA in Hungary to lobby for a Hungarian 2nd Amendment equivalent? Would that be legal? pl
Hillary is so out of touch she seems to think she is running for the Berkeley City Council,not the White House and that the road to victory is paved with gun control and LGBT rights. Gun control has always been a losing issue for Democrats just as abortion control has been for Republicans. She may be the only Democratic politician inept enough to actually lose to Trump.
Kooshy,
No kidding. Why would legal Latinos worry about the price of a coyote’s fee.
Mark Pryor was one of the Senate Democrats who voted against the Manchin-Toomey bill. In thanks, the NRA spent $ millions the next year to elect his Republican opponent Tom Cotton. Pryor’s not alone. The NRA no longer makes any attempt to avoid party allegiances. All their political spending now goes towards targeting and defeating Democrats. The same will be done to HRC, so she HAS to make a case against the NRA — internal polling may even suggest that running against the NRA could be to her advantage. After all, 2/3 of the country are NOT gun owners and while general gun owner support for La Pierre’s NRA may be as wide as Col Lang thinks it is, it’s not certain that it’s as deep as support from the 5%.
Col Lang
HRC’s been through the meat grinder before and survived. What is untested is how well Mr Trump will do when Clinton and her allies deploy their massive oppo-research files on him. The media and his opponents dropped the ball on that during the primaries.
I found this interesting story. It refers to a superpac set up by Mexican business interests to air ads in the US denouncing Trump’s xenophobia, etc.
I suspect it has little to do with xenophobia, and everything to do with those Mexican business interests that have benefitted from Nafta. And it would not surprise me at all if the money behind it is from US companies that have similarly benefitted.
I could be wrong, but imho the “mexican” and “xenophobia” angle to this is just to give the outfit some street cred and hide its backers and/or real purpose, much like Aipac uses anti-semitism.
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/opinion/article77407322.html
Forgive me, but wasn’t the “pant-suit panderer” pro guns when she stood in the 2008 elections vs Obama? Changed her mind again did she? I imagine she considers it expedient.
It’s even worse if you thought that goofus was going to win anything.
That’s your boy Trump. Not me.
That’s not even close to what I said and you know it.
Hillary’s preaching to the choir on “Common sense gun laws”. What’s curious is why she thinks that will net her any votes among independents and Repubs. Perhaps she believes the background check polls can be turned into votes. Doesn’t seem likely.
OTOH, Obama has been the best thing that’s ever happened to the US gun industry. Record sales over the last 8 years. Makes me wonder where their money will be in this election.
Northern Virginia ‘burbs will swing VA in this election. Rural and down state will go solidly Trump. NVA seems up for grabs, and that’s where the votes are concentrated.
It will be interesting to see how many of us on the left will follow through on “never vote for Hillary”. A lot of Sanders followers are in it for the ideas, and do not have strong party affiliation. He can’t order them to fall in line behind Hillary even if he wanted to.
Hillary and Trump are both horrible, but in such different ways it’s hard to decide which is worse.
It’s possible. We shall see.
Look, I don’t particularly care for her or her husband but it’s not like she’s running against George Washington.
To me, Far Left would be anarcho-syndicalists; Bernie is more in the mold of Swedish social democrats.
Edward Amame
With regard to “opposition research” you seem unaware of the depth of material available to use against HC, material that has never been used in public before. IMO the most damaging thing available on Trump is probably that he does not pay federal income taxes on a net basis and that he does not give money to many charities. I don’t understand your point about the “5%.” What I am saying is that her clear intentions with regard to gun ownership will cost her a lot of votes among gun owners whether or not they belong to NRA. pl
Babak
For the US, Sanders is on the Far Left. This is not Spain in the30s. pl
Yes I understand that, all Latinos have a stick on this, the legal as well as the illegals, more importantly many industries in US depend on illegal cheap labor from the south. The problem is like all politicians, they higher illegals to do their dirty laundry( literary) and they denounce it, when and if they get cut. There are Farmers in centerl valley that if it wasn’t cor illegal labor they wouldn’t survive. In mean time as you say there are large business on both side of the boarder that love free trade, on the cost of US jobs and small businesses. IMO if they raise the cost of good and services sold by 30% , they can stop importing all the chines goods and cheap south of the boarder labor.
Babak,
Yeah cause allowing male perverts to use female bathrooms is a centrist position.
EA,
“Been through the wringer”. The entire media organ defends her constantly. November is going to wreck your world if you believe this.
Col Lang,
Sorry, I was referring to the 5% of gun owners who are dues paying NRA members. We apear to differ. I’m thinking that HRC’s campaign may be seeing numbers that suggest the other 95% of gun owners may have the same depth of feeling as the 5%.
In general though, I expect most Democrats will now be forced into making stronger cases against the NRA now that the NRA has gone full bore GOP.
Col Lang
At least now the Democrats have a counterbalance to the GOP’s far right.
How the primaries surprised me was to discover how popular an actual left wing Democrat would be in the primaries and how non-ideological the majority of GOP primary voters are, the ones who nominated Trump.
Perhaps in Europe. In the good old USA, anarcho-syndicalists would be the extreme or lunatic left. Far left here in the early 21 century is yes, Scandinavian social democrats/ All IMHO
Edward Amame
Yes. This election is about disappearing economic wellness for the working classes. IMO some portion of Sanders’ youth vote will follow whatever promises Trump will offer. pl
“With regard to “opposition research” you seem unaware of the depth of material available to use against HC, material that has never been used in public before.”
So true.
“They know everything.”
From The Usual Suspects when the characters learned they are about to be effed by Keyser Soze.
Soon to be learned by a former haughty high ranking Government Official, who couldn’t be troubled with pesky rules, regulations, and laws, when foreign intelligence services start dropping the dime with the goodies so graciously given to them by said Government Official.
Thomas. Yes, Keyser Soze runs Trump’s opposition resource office. there will be a wide variety of attacks mostly planted in news groups on subjects like; CGI donations and disbursements, Bill’s history and her support of it, her conduct of office as Secstate, her and (staff’s) general and habitual handling of classified information, the details of her personal life. It will be embarrassing but entertaining. pl
Kooshy,
My version of the Constitution talks about providing for citizens and their posterity. Let me know where the part about making sure Central Valley farmers can afford cut rate labor is, cause mine is missing it.
The prices on produce would go up by about dime, btw, without farmers paying pennies for wages. The poor dears might have to invest in mechanization. Abloo bloo.
If you don’t intend to be realistic and realize what is real, then you don’t need to go that far to US constitution, even the local laws don’t suport hiring illegals. Why the need to pull the constitution, if even local lower lows support your point. I can’t comprehend what you want, you can deny and refuse what is happening on the ground and deal with it, or you can say illegals are unconstitutional and do nothing, because you are beniffiting economicly by having them around that’s what most politions do as far as I remember.
Colonel my hope is also that, hope some of the Bernie youth turn to Trump regardless of how and what he continues on. I also hope Trump keeps his mouth shut not to antogonize the youth voters. He should throw in a some free education / job thing that covers all youth on all ethnicities.
Col Lang
Agreed on both points. But how big a portion depends on how the primary plays out. There were bad post-primary feelings between Obama and Clinton supporters in ’08 too. Based on ’08, I’m guessing that if Sanders bows out gracefully and throws his support behind Clinton, the portion of his supporters going to Trump will probably not be very big.
Tyler
I’ll be happy to talk, but won’t be trading insults with you.
Results from a quick Google search suggests you’re mistaken. A social media software analytics company called Crimson Hexagon (with a pretty good client list) reports that of all the primary candidates, Democrat or Republican, Clinton has generated the most negative coverage and the smallest proportion of positive stories about her from January 2015 to April 2016.
http://www.vox.com/2016/4/15/11410160/hillary-clinton-media-bernie-sanders
EA
A lot of Sanders people are in favor of revolutionary change not the Democratic Party. Many are the clueless millennials of whom we her so much. pl
Kooshy,
” Bunk with Bernie” ? What does that mean, specifically?
Babak Makkinejad,
I am not sure that tax policies had much to do with the de-industrialization of the American Midwest. It was beginning here and there before the Forced Trade Agreements, but the adoption of the Forced Trade Agreements sped it up much faster and wider and deeper.
Kooshy,
Why? So he can drive up the price of college even more?
You really are clueless on basic economics.
EA,
Only a progressive thinks Trump is “far right”.
Tyler
You misread me. I didn’t say Trump is far right. The Tea Party wing of the GOP is. That’s why I’ve been surprised by Trump’s nomination. It suggests to me that the GOP majority who nominated him are much less ideological than I thought.
Kooshy,
Deporting 20 million illegals is real. Youre offering, as it your wont, more handwaving and excuses about why you HAVE to break the law in order to survive. Its pathetic.
GCP,
Womanly snark when caught in a lie. What a shocker.
EA,
LMAO Vox Media. Are you for real? Looking at their metrics it’s AMAHZING what they consider “negative”.
Basically anything that isn’t kissing the ring of Hillary is negative, as well as aggregating stories from PATRIOT NEWS POST REVOLUTION DAILY.
Get out of your bubble, EA. I treat you with contempt because you’ve earned nothing else with your shenanigans.
Col Lang
Agreed, but at least here in the Northeast, it may be more likely that older Sanders, #NeverClinton types will break for Trump. I work with a lot of millennials. Yes their concerns are economic, but these kids are EXTREMELY Democratic New Left: very strong on LGBT and minority rights, the environment, reproductive rights, etc. They view Trump with utter contempt.
But then, if what is wishy-washy Left in Europe corresponds to Far Left in US, does it not then follow that what is considered Right in US would correspond to Far Right in Europe?
I think about 70% will vote for HRC. 15% will vote Trump and the others will sit it out.
EA,
The Tea Party wing isn’t even “far right”.
When you have to worry about someone like me kicking in your door to give you a Pinochet helicopter ride, that is what the far right looks like.
“For HC to bait gun owners by associating them rhetorically with a loser like Zimmerman”
Colonel, strictly I don’t like the use of losers versus winners, but I appreciate your usage here. Considering the extend to which Zimmerman tried to sell himself as “American hero” in the public mind. Not least it felt at the time based on his supposed Edmund Burke quote:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Edmund_Burke#Disputed
Only a loser from my own limited perspective would misuse a dead man’s fame without even caring to check the supposed source.
LeaNder
“Loser” in this case does not refer to “winners and losers.” It refers to Zimmerman’s character and his unbroken record of personal failure in life. A lot of people reacted favorably to Zimmerman’s acquittal because a politically self serving prosecutor had overcharged him in the case. You don’t like Zimmerman because you have no sympathy for Americans who do not wish to be disarmed by the federal government and because you have a 60s attitude of developed affection for all Black causes and a wish to believe that in any incident they must be the aggrieved party. pl
All:
Trump is a fraud although I’m not surprised some around here are supporting him. By the time of the election this is going to be a landslide for grandma.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/big-fibbin–5
‘We now know that Donald Trump tried for four months not to contribute any of his own money for that vets group fundraiser he put on in January as an excuse to ditch that Fox debate. Only when the Post finally cornered him and basically proved that all his and his aides shifting explanations were false, did he finally agree to put in some of his own money. He was in essence trying to skim a million off the top of the fundraiser for the vets he used as a prop to skip out on the debate. ‘
Then we had the story come out yesterday of his links to the mafia in New York along with the fact that he stands up and denies climate change yet a couple of days ago applied for a permit to put up a retaining wall on one of his golf courses in Ireland and cited climate change as the reason it was necessary.
When are some of you people going to wake up.
Nope, Colonel.
I do not like or dislike any group of people collectively. We all need basic rules but this one obviously makes no “statistical” sense. No doubt some here would disagree. Incidentally a young black boy offered to carry my suitcase on a recent train travel, I didn’t need his help, but it was a nice gesture, among us elders. On the other hand it was hardly the only time I was offered help and in other cases it was helpful.
Concerning GZ’s acquittal, I don’t have a problem with that. Neither do I have problems with American laws more generally really. The constitution seems to make a different approach in this context necessary. Resulting as every law in new chances taken occasionally (?), I suppose, especially if the central witness doesn’t survive. Resulting in the narrative possibly made to conform with one’s own criminal justice and police expertise? 😉
As I already wrote somewhere else, the only thing I was pretty shocked about, really, was the highly populist approach to evidence the prosecution choose versus an unemotional approach. But then it seems to point into the same direction you suggested.
Maybe a class in conflict management in any school would help the young and easily provoked? Especially the ones that read every challenge or suspicion they encounter too superficially? No doubt TM may have. “Why is this guy following me”? Sometimes curiosity can be dangerous.
LeaNder
You are soft. I have sought all my life to protect soft people and other vulnerable animals. You belong here among us if for no other reason than you represent my unfulfilled dreams. pl