"From 2011 on, the State Department had a secret arrangement with the CIA, giving it a degree of say over whether or not a drone killing would take place.
The U.S. drone program has killed hundreds of civilians in Pakistan and other countries.
Under Sec. Clinton, State Department officials approved almost every single proposed CIA drone assassination. They only objected to one or two attacks.
The emails that are at the heart of the FBI’s criminal investigation are 2011 and 2012 messages between U.S. diplomats in Pakistan and their State Department superiors in D.C., in which the officials approved drone strikes.
Clinton’s aides forwarded some of these emails to her personal email account, on a private server in her home in suburban New York.
These are the revelations of a report by The Wall Street Journal, based on information provided by anonymous congressional and law-enforcement officials who were briefed on the FBI’s probe." Salon.com
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Nice phone. I had one of those blue Blackberrys a while back and I particularly liked the way you could listen to broadcast radio on it. Hmmm …
Sooo, from 2011 State was given the power to express an opinion as to whether or not particular armed UAV (drone) attacks could be made against individuals in places like Pakistan. This occurred while the aircraft was in flight near the target waiting for an "execute" order from the model airplane pilot flying it from somewhere on earth. That could be anywhere, literally anywhere, Nevada maybe?
This all begins to sound like a thriller movie, something like "The Bourne Legacy" in which a UAV is sent to do away with a couple of government assets who were no longer wanted among the living. In that case, the nasty civilian spooks sit in a building outside Washington while the USAF model airplane pilots fly the UAV to the target in interior Alaska.
According to the Salon and WSJ stories her incredibly irresponsible staff forwarded some of these coordination actions to Hilly in real time on her gadget worldwide wherever she may have been at the moment, this while all the while the bird flew around in circles in the sky and the model airplane pilot thought about what he/she would do when his shift ended that day.
pl
Ah, that’s why she is such a good bud with the general who couldn’t zip it ( sorry Colonel for being unladylike), even during her campaign.
She also befriended former general and CIA Director David Petraeus, infamous for his links to torture and death squads. In 2014, Petraeus insisted Clinton would “make a tremendous President.” A year later, he proposed that the U.S. government use “moderate” members of al-Qaeda to fight ISIS.
https://www.salon.com/2016/04/27/democrats_this_is_why_you_need_to_fear_hillary_clinton_the_ny_times_is_absolutely_right_shes_a_bigger_hawk_than_the_republicanse/
Color me confused/naive but since when is a sitting
Secretary of State in the chain of command to approve
or disapprove the extra judicial killing of anyone?
Did POTUS Obama sign off on this or did Her
Excellency just assume the right as in Libya.
steveG
It says in the material that this was an arrangement created n the “interagency.” Obama would have been aware of that arrangement and accepted it. pl
I just finished reading The Panther, by ___ de Mille, a fictionalized account of US persons hunting down and killing, by Hellfire missiles shot from drones, the planner of the attack on the USS Cole. I don’t know if the US undertook specific actions to find and punish someone for the Cole, but since Osama bin Laden is said to have been the mastermind, and since USA killed him & tossed his corpse into the sea, the answer must be, Yes, the USA avenged the attack on the Cole.
Four days ago I joined a small group in Arlington Cemetery to mark the 49th anniversary of the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli air force. To the best of my knowledge, the USA has taken no action to avenge the killing of 34 US sailors/citizens in 1967.
I don’t think there’s been a novel or a Hollywood movie about the attack on the Liberty.
I talked to two women whose brothers were killed on the Liberty. It’s real, not fiction.
Let’s face it: when no one is running the show, and your organization is stocked with audacious people operating on their own account in an environment that places premiums and being pro-active all kinds of bizarre things are going to happen. There are proximate causes for each, but the key factor is misguided strategy and lack of oversight.
And after hubris nemesis.
Apparently today’s Orlando SOB jahadi gunman, was a US born citizen from Afghan parents. IMO for this brutal killings, the people of US should thank (blame) Zbig (and his Saudi madresseh financiers), for his “great ideas” of giving USSR their own VN. I am sure if someone ask this SOB, if it was worth it, he will reply with a yes. IMO this thing will not be over till it is all over.
The following link might fit better under the latest Syria post, but it comes from Salon and it’s about the Borg lies regarding Syria, so I’ll stick it here. Definitely worth reading. I haven’t yet tried to find the story that the Syrian Observatory out out that was discredited by journalists on the scene, but that was the most interesting part to me.
http://www.salon.com/2016/06/12/our_syria_policy_is_still_a_mess_these_are_the_dots_the_media_refuses_to_connect/
A Sunni Muslim Afghan, almost certainly hailing from outside of the Old Seljuk boundary (are you paying attention LeaNder?).
Kooshy,
We can also thank the Dems for wanting to import more violent foreigners as long as they vote the right way as well.
My apologies to those here who might find this very off-topic. IMHO it does explain a great deal about Balkan history with a comprehensive summary of the recent powers (the US, EU, and Russia) that have intervened over the past 25+ years and their various roles up to the present: http://www.newstatesman.com/world/2016/06/next-balkan-wars
sick wahhibis….
mac
All,
I’m curious as to why the FBI hasn’t yet requested to interview HRC.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/politics/clinton-server-drone-fbi/index.html
Here’s a key quote from the article.
“The FBI has not yet interviewed Clinton as part of its investigation. As CNN first reported, investigators have not found evidence to support criminal charges against Clinton and none are expected, but no final determination will be made until that interview has taken place.”
The leaks over the next few months will probably tell us what, if anything, the FBI has found so far. This interview should have happened months ago.
My guess is that the FBI will face restrictions in what it can ask HRC but I’m sure others have a better grasp on any limitations they face in their investigation.
Tsk! Tsk! Don’t ask for the impossible.
IMO it’s legitimate for State to have input into the decision, in that some of these attacks could be expected to have diplomatic consequences that they would be most qualified to assess.
Also, I don’t think that the killings are extra-judicial when the targets are not US citizens. Possibly illegal, possibly war crimes, possibly horribly ill-advised – but not extra-judicial, in that both the Bush and the Obama Administrations have been very careful to create a framework of opinions supporting this program.
They are obvious extra-judicial. Maybe not American law but where they happen is not America so that is not important. Besides there can be a difference between a legal and a common definition. Under the common definition it is extra-judicial
In reply to Mac 12 June 2016 at 02:46 PM
Stop making excuses for them. Crazed, fanatical, vicious, barbaric, possibly psychotic, and determined to spread their death cult everywhere – yes.
Sick – no.
Tyler
Glad you have been released from the penalty box .
The largest part of Afghanistan was indeed part of Seldjuk empire. I honestly don’t know whether this “Seldjuk thesis” has been investigated and elaborated on by any scholars. This forum was the first place that I heard of it.
Babak,
Second generation American. Just like the men that set of bombs at the Boston marathon.
“Second generation American”(c)
This is precisely a moment at which downfall starts. What is “American”? How is Americanism (or being American) is defined? The guy who attends a militant Mosque and browses jihadi sites is not going to share fundamental American values (how they work is a separate issue), and those are fundamentally in dramatic contradiction with what Sunni Islam preaches. US and the world in general has an issue with Sunni Islam. Wahhabism is a curse and NO “American” can be born of it, second, fourth or tenth generation–doesn’t matter. It all doesn’t make US good or bad, albeit there is a legitimate case that US did indeed help jihadists, but it is beyond that.
Look at the lineage.
Occasionally, Babak, paying attention that is.
The less I am distracted by my own babbling the more maybe? Could be. Can you help me to elaborate this into the first LeaNder thesis?
If LeaNder does not babble, she is more likely to listen?
Besides, you may not not have noticed. At one point, considering dynamics I offered for debate (babbling, no doubt as always), confronted with something that felt like group-dynamics.
Why not simply recognize your theses for what they are, theses. But if one came to that point: Wouldn’t some type of truce agreement be possible?
The rest is bantering, notice not silence.
Lewis Carroll updated: There’s an app for that “Tap ‘Yes’ for off with their heads”.
How can those communications conducted over an unsecured system not be criminal?
I am very supportive of truce.
JCPA was a truce agreement and not a peace agreement.
What we need is also a cease-fire in Eastern Europe between NATO and the Russian Federation and another cease-fire in Palestine.
The JCPA is a cease-fire agreement that will expire in 15 years.
The NATO-Russia truce could also be a timed agreement; expiring, say in 20 years, when most of the protagonists and antagonists of the current confrontation are either dead, enfeebled and in nursing homes, or are long forgotten in their retirement.
And, finally, the cease fire in Palestine could be set to expire after 99 years.
Given the ease of hacking that server what is the probability that false messages from HRC’s email were sent without her knowing about it?
Russia Insider is reporting that the Clinton e-mails might soon be released through Wikileaks courtesy of the Russians. The article also suggests that if the Russians could hack her server, the Chinese, North Korean, and Iranians might have as well.
http://russia-insider.com/en/russia-about-release-clinton-emails/ri14941
Babak,
(mumbling mode, suggested by “Anonymous” on the Tyler tread):
to the extend I recall, can recall, as long as my head does not function like its envisioned new extension IT, or the envisioned mind of a mixed type of technologically enhanced human, you seem to have referred to the Conference of Yalta not too long ago.
Hmmm, “Crimea Conference and codenamed the Argonaut Conference” …
Could this be related? – (((‘Multiversially’?)))
*****
Since I do have an urgent task at hand, and strictly not one of the chores I enjoy…
… ‘on the surface’ I seem to agree with you often, without having ever checked it statistically concerning everything you write, but here you gotta help me: JCPA agreement.
The first link, see above hated chores, did not lead me to something that may fit, no doubt via the first best acronym finder.
*****
Let’s postpone this issue:
“And, finally, the cease fire in Palestine could be set to expire after 99 years.”
(Babbling mode, association, triggered by the 99 years truce, more precisely 99):
Admittedly I was a bit obsessed once with a true Israel believer on Mondoweiss, former Hippie, who had tried to colonize land in either Oregon or Montana, failed, met his wife in India, married her there according to tradition, then had a marriage according to customs in the US. He once wrote this: You cannot owe land in Israel, you can only lease it for 99 years. Suggesting owning land is something evil. And the “light unto the nations” indeed handled this differently. No purchase only lease.
OK, now that I am here: More generally, I could imagine it would be very, very hard to control the ideologues on both sides.