Why is the idiot Biden threatening the un-vaccinated? According to Biden the vaccines work. If you get the vaccine then you will not get Covid. Right? So if you are protected from Covid what difference does it make to you if someone else wants to take the risk of not getting vaccinated? If it will only affect the un-vaccinated then it should be none of your business if another free American chooses to not get vaccinated.
But it appears that Dementia Joe and his team of inept advisors know that the vaccine is not really a vaccine. A true vaccine–made out of Covid–would produce immunity to Covid. But we now know that it does not.
How do we know? Just ask the Israelis.
And yet Israel now has the world’s highest rolling weekly average of new Covid cases. That’s been something of a shock and raises the question of whether the country’s pandemic plan has worked. While the news may look grim, and the government has been scrambling to respond, the reality is more prosaic: Israel hasn’t defeated the virus, but it has probably redefined what success against the virus looks like. It’s a messy reality, but not an intolerable one.
The author of the piece I quoted, Zev Chafets, is a spinner. He’s trying to put lip stick on a pig. If he was writing about Ron DeSantis and Florida, he would call it a three alarm fire and accuse DeSantis of being a 21st Century Dr. Mengele.
The so-called Covid “vaccines” appear to stimulate an immune response in most people. But it does not protect them against Covid variants. And some recipients of the untested jabs suffer brain hemorrhages, cardiac inflamation or miscarriages. Some even die. Those are documented facts.
Biden’s insane declaration to try to force all Americans (but not illegal immigrants) to get the jab ignores those with acquired immunity, i.e., they had Covid, they recovered and they have anti-bodies. He also is ignoring those with medical conditions that preclude taking an untested, unverified “vaccine” like Covid.
It is time to resist.
You’re making a logical argument about the facts of the coff. Those are merely an inconvenience to those driving the narrative. This has been a power play from the beginning. I’ve designed electronics for medical devices. The amount of obfuscation and data tampering from the outset tipped me that this all just a means to an end. Totalitarianisms back doored in through administrative over-reach on the grounds of emergency. Not as blatant as Kristallnacht, but then again more effective in it’s subtlety. The slow blade penetrates the shield…
Larry,you asked the question; “what difference does it make to you if someone else wants to take the risk of not getting vaccinated? If it will only affect the un-vaccinated then it should be none of your business ”
True, if it only affects the un-vaccinated it IS none of my business.
However it can and does affect me:
– Covid has the potential to break the public hospital system that I paid for and that is there to help protect me and my family. If the hospital system is clogged up with un-vaccinated covid sufferers then the hospital staff can’t do their job.
I heard this morning from nurse acquaintance: most hospitals, at least here, require staff to wear full PPE when dealing with anyone in emergency whose covid status is unknown. This includes accident cases and heart attacks, etc. She says people are already dieing because it takes to long for staff to treat them.
– the same thing applies to critical infrastructure workers. They and their families need to be protected in order to protect the rest of us.
If covid sufferers who were unvaccinated agreed to die in place instead of cluttering up hospitals that would be fine with me.
However if they want the same standard of care, they should be prepared to engage in a little self help.
BTW, the Israeli reports I’ve read still say that being vaccinated is still much safer than being un-vaccinated. That is also our local experience here.
Walrus,
Then you should demand that obese people have their diets controlled by the government, drug addicts be shot along with alcoholics, people be limited in how much time they spend in the sun to eliminate skin cancer…….any need to continue the long list of preventable diseases (or those than could be ameliorated to a meaningful degree if the govt imposed laws)?
Well said. Where was the outrage all these years when drunk drivers, gang-bangers, bad diets, and a host of other issues were killing Americans at an alarming rate??
If the hospitals are clogged up that’s because doctors are telling patients to stay home, quarantine, take Tylenol, and come back if you can’t breathe, just like my neighbor. That is patient abandonment. Finally he saw a Dr that followed the FLCCC protocol and turned the corner in 2 hours. Covid is treatable.
> Covid has the potential to break the public hospital system– Covid has the potential to break the public hospital system <
Why then are hospitals in the Anglosphere threatening to fire the *very many of their staff* who are unwilling to take the Covid clot-shot? "The hospitals are near to being overrun!" has been an MSM refrain since the "pandemic" was rolled out nineteen-plus months ago in Our Corporate Media, and it hasn't happened yet.
Can I get unvaxxed if the results of the "vaccine" are unbeneficial ?
It’s my understanding that hospitals are refusing to treat the unvaxed, so how could the unvaxed be crowding and costing hospitals extra
Yes, this exactly. They are firing nurses and screaming at the same time hospitals are overflowed with unvaccinated patients. Which clearly indicates a malevolent agenda to me. I believe the vaccine may do some good for the elderly and at-risk obese patients but Biden can take his mandate and shove it up his geriatric ass. What prevents them from putting a kill shot every 10 -100 shots in the future for rural residents who they clearly hate.
I went to get my eye prescription this past Friday. Need glasses in order to see at a distance. You can’t shoot if you can’t see the target.
Hospitals getting overwhelmed is a red herring. They stood up hundreds of beds at the Jarvits Center in weeks. Yet no one showed up. It is not difficult to add emergency capacity in hotels, parking lots and elsewhere. They’ve demonstrated they have that capability in 2020.
Since the preponderance of hospitalizations are the old & sick if there should be a vaccination program it should be targeted towards them. Instead of the hundreds of billions going to feed the market cap of Big Pharma maybe they could spend a tad on treatments and less on jabs for those unlikely to land up in the hospitals like those below 50 in reasonable shape.
Anecdotally I know over a dozen people who got infected. None landed up in the hospital including my dear aunt in Tennessee who is 83. Remember 40 million Americans have been infected.
As it appears the virus is endemic and high vax rates is not necessarily reducing the number of infections. In some places it is higher than ever despite high vax rates. The strategy ought to move towards treatment of those who experience severe symptoms and let people get on with their lives like Sweden and Florida and Texas.
They put up one of those Covid faux-hospitals in my region, too, at
Cal Poly SLO. Its occupancy, ever: Zero.
Our county offered a million dollar a year option on a vacant Sears building, for “covid hospitalization overflow”. It never got used.
If it could be done all over again, offering major financial incentives to the medical industry for “covid” cases opened the door to both fraud and faulty data, from day one.
But no do-overs now, so the passions of a critical election year politics worked abusing everyone, for what was nominally meant to be a caring early response to this “novel” health crisis.
Keep digging on those early images from Italy in Bergamo and find it was not what it was cracked up to be for any relevance to our own US health care system, but did qualify as early covid porn hysteria.
Bodies allegedly stacked up in NY nursing homes again were the elderly dying, but now up against the lack of any mortuary facilities to take care of the due to the “covid scare” – not because they were dying suddenly in extraordinary numbers.
The level of fraudulent imagery from the very first bogus “covid” report from the Imperial College of Medicine in London, to the duplicity of the director shaking up with his AVAAZ paramour in defiance of his own lockdown mandates, but this entire “covid” thing on a very shaky start.
Still think the role of AVAAZ with its dark money funders, who benefited magnificently from global “covid” needs more digging.
Thanks for this comment.
Walrus:
If the public hospital system that you fund along with the many doctors, medical professionals and scientists who encourage people to just ride out COVID at home until they get sick enough to come into the hospital to die, would simply stand up to the inept CDC protocols and instead scream from the hospital rooftops the benefit of EARLY TREATMENT (and they know what those are), then none of us would even be having this discussion. EARLY TREATMENT, EARLY TREATMENT, EARLY TREATMENT = NO HOSPITAL in most cases. Stop listening to the MSM propaganda and educate yourself with facts!
Fauci made health care professionals assume everyone had HIV decades ago, so this full protection requirement when dealing with an unknown patient health status is nothing new. Presenting this as a unique “unvaccinated” covid burden is disingenuous.
Much of the over-reaction to HIV in the general population in the 1980’s was based clearly on many a lie too – I have a bad case of deja vu, especially when I see Fauci again as the center ring master of the covid circus, just like he was so intentionally wrong about HIV – claiming it would spread like wildfire within the heterosexual population.
Please identify that hospital! Provide facts!!! Fear mongering has no place here.
That might be a legitimate argument but (1) Government should not be blocking early treatments that have the potential to at least reduce the burden on hospitals. (2) if so, why should I accept that hospitals are full of people who are there because of obesity, smoking, alcoholism, skin cancer (from insufficiently protecting ones’ skin in the sun) and other consequence of lifestyle choices.
If Israel has at least 80% of the people vaccinated, then how come they are witnessing a “surge” in “cases”? What I have noticed, with people that possess your mentality, is that it is always about “me,me,me.”
“Well if the unvaccinated get sick, and I need a hospital bed, then that’s not fair to me.” Is what the vaccinated frequently say. I thought the vaccinated are safe from going into a hospital? Isn’t that the nonsense people are spewing? What reason would a vaccinated person need to be in a hospital for ? This past year, we were told that Covid was the only reason people were dying. If you died in a car crash, list it covid. Covid eliminated cancer, heart attacks, strokes, everything.
And by the way, people vaccinated can still infect someone, as well as become sick. If YOU can infect someone, how is an unvaccinated person at fault ?
Maybe we should tell people who are obese and unhealthy, that if they stopped eating like a hog, they wouldn’t have health issues. But instead, someone like myself who is unvaccinated, doesn’t smoke/drink, I eat clean, I take supplements, I workout…I’m the one posing a risk to the vaccinated. What kind of crazy world are we living in? Where people, who have routinely taken care of their body for years, are being told that WE are the ones posing a risk to the unhealthy, obese, processed food eating, people.
If you are so concerned over hospital workers being “overwhelmed” after performing their tik tok dances, maybe hospitals shouldn’t be laying them off, for refusing the jab? Wouldn’t that make more sense? Instead, hospital workers are being fired, and you’re making a weak point about the workers being overwhelmed.
People are being told by the staff in hospitals, to go home and come back when you can’t breathe. Instead of treating a person’s symptoms early on, to avoid them taking up a hospital bed.
Your points are extremely weak.
1. I’m not a lawyer, but I suspect Biden’s mandate-to-business-owners gives business owners an exemption from legal culpability for any harms that an employee might experience from being forced to take vaccine.
2. Regarding those medical harms caused by vaccination: Am I to understand that hospitals and medical personnel are treating them with no charge?
Those 106 Canadian kids with myocarditis subsequent to vaccination — free treatment? For the rest of their lives? https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/over-100-ontario-youth-have-been-sent-to-hospital-for-vaccine-related-heart-problems
CDC VAERS reports “18,098 permanently disabled” persons subsequent to vaccination; “169 prolonged hospitalizations;” “405 birth defects.”
Are they all entitled to free care until they’re Built Back Better, underwritten by Compassionate Joe Biden?
Do all of these events have no impact on the hospitals, on ICU units, on medical personnel’s time?
My rights don’t end at your fears.
The hospitals that are overwhelmed are so because they are designed to run ICU beds at max capacity. Just like a restaurant that isn’t the size of a football stadium because it wouldn’t be fiscally prudent to pay for unused areas and pay to staff those areas that will never be used. It has ALWAYS been common for ICUs to be “overrun “ at times. Having had parents who were old and sickly for years, PRE COVID I stood in many a hallway with a parent on a stretcher waiting for a bed to open in the ICU.
Secondly, understand that a hospital can only claim an open bed if that hospital has enough staff to use it. An ICU may have 30 beds and 18 patients, but cannot claim to have 12 open beds if the staff is not there to service those 12 beds. So that 19th patient is declined, and sent somewhere else. That 30 bed ICU is “full” at 18.
In my major medical city, we have seen the opening of 4 large, new hospitals in the last 5 years. And another huge one opening any day now. What do you think that does to staffing in the older hospitals? This country has had a nursing shortage since my mom was a nurse in the 1970s. We always need more. Every nurse knows that if he or she isn’t happy, there are 5 facilities begging for her services. I get postcards daily for offers in local hospitals, facilities, often offering thousands of dollars to sign on. It’s become a very transient career.
In the facility I work, the ONLY staff and residents that have tested positive for covid in the last 8 to 10 weeks are “fully vaccinated”. And the “unvaccinated” are tested 2 times a week. The “pandemic of the unvaccinated “ is a bold faced lie.
People need to be careful when they listen to “statistics” and realize that they are not always being told the whole picture. There is often a reason for that, a bigger agenda is at play.
> People need to be careful when they listen to “statistics” <
Hear, hear! Especially with regard to Covid™, it's long been
obvious that the Books are Cooked to provide more fear-porn.
Who benefits? Well, the World's fifty richest have approxmately
doubled their (nominal) wealth since the pandemic was rolled
out; not to mention their real goal: vast, unaccountable power over the people.
Read this piece from Michael Tracey, then try to tell me with a straight face that the “vaccines” and other Covid measures are about anything
other than Control:
https://mtracey.substack.com/p/theres-an-insane-australia-style
walrus
I’ll tell you another thing that would break the public hospital system; civil war. It appears Biden’s administration considers that risk worthwhile into order to force the Vaxx on everyone. All this to save the potential risk posed from a very low mortality disease to which tens of millions probably have some level of natural immunity. Can’t say I agree with that judgement.
I read today that Coumo’s large nursing home death rate was only partially due to his placing sick Covid patients back into the homes, he also had a do not resuscitate order in place for all the other residents. Since no one was allowed to visit and review what was happening, when any of the people became ill- they just let them, or helped them die. Anything to get the death rate up to increase the fear of Covid. As for “clogging” hospitals with patients- this is just silly nonsense for a disease with a 99% rate of survivability with early treatment. Look at what happened in India when they started using Ivermectin for treatment and prophylaxis. Look at all the African countries where people take hydroxycholoroquine every week for malaria prophylaxis- they hardly had any covid deaths at all. We have NO need for any vaccines, we just need to take cheap ivermectin or HCQ prophylaxis for awhile and snuff the thing out. Oh, but no one has the patent on either of those medications anymore, so there is no money to be made… so that plan will NEVER come to fruition in the United States. I am sorry, but there is something VERY VERY wrong going on here.
Walrus, you are approaching this as a common sense taxpayer and citizen…thank you.
Coworker of mine tested + was told to isolate at home… NO medical instructions whatsoever. Got sicker, 911 & ambulance ride to the hospital… “it’s COVID – nothing we can do- go home & isolate”. Days later, sicker still, called 911, ambulance ride to a different hospital- stuck him on a ventilator— dead in 3 days. It’s medical malpractice to not treat the symptoms of a respiratory illness.
Walrus,
you paid for all those hospitals? Thank goodness nobody needs to pay any taxes into that system to keep it going. Or to build new hospitals, which your country has had 18 months to do. (so far you have reported zero being built).
Your nurse acquantance just made the case for a medical malpractice suit, but then your laws are diffent from ours. As a matter of clarity have those unknown hospitals being doing that from day 1, all while not building additional capacity or creating a different triage management plan for ER admissions or did they just start doing that now?
“covid status is unknown”
To ease your health care problem, and because you are all so compliant, I suggest a mandatory barcode tattoo on the innoculated so you can instantly tell who is vaxxed. You can even put in the date, manufacturer and all the rest. Get a new line with every shot. Vaccination macht frei. Wear it with pride.
His fraudulency is delusional as usual. Biden’s pronouncements about mandating vaccination are pointless. Forcing people to take a vaccine against a strain of the virus that no longer exists is idiotic & dangerous. Currently we are on to the Delta variant.
The Delta variant is itself being replaced by what is now called the Mu variant.
There is no way in which the development and production of new vaccines can ever occur quickly enough to match the pace with which the virus mutates. And, as each new strain of the virus appears, all vaccines against previous, now extinct strains will become useless as the Usurper Biden.
The bottom line is that variants of the COVID-19 virus will continue to spread throughout the population regardless of vaccine status; and the virus will continue to evolve into more infectious but less deadly or pathogenic strains.
There simply is no way to vaccinate the population and stop the spread of COVID variants, because the vaccinated will contract and spread the virus just like the non-vaccinated.
The failure of the vaccine-centric approach to our pandemic response can clearly be seen by the increase in the number of new COVID-19 cases in this country and others like Israel.
You are not a moron. You get it. Thanks for being a student of logic and reason.
Being a student of logic & reasoning myself, it took less than 5 minutes to find from reputable sources that the overwhelming preponderance of hospitalizations and deaths in the US today are among the unvaccinated. It’s well documented.
I encourage you to take as many vaccine boosters as you are able to. I believe in Darwin. You’re missing the point. The data from Sarasota Memorial shows that 20% of the patients are vaccinated. If that vaccine worked you should not have that number of vaccinated people getting COVID. And that is what I stated in my article. You’re logic and reasoning are lacking.
I don’t think so. > https://www.heraldtribune.com/story/news/coronavirus/2021/08/31/sarasota-memorial-hospital-reports-spike-vaccinated-covid-19-patients/5662287001/
Dr. Manuel Gordillo, the hospital’s infectious disease expert, addressed some of those questions in a Facebook post Tuesday, offering assurances about the effectiveness of the vaccine while also touching on the booster shot question.
As of Monday, Sarasota Memorial had 47 vaccinated COVID-19 patients, including seven in the ICU and five on ventilators. At the start of last week the hospital had 28 vaccinated COVID-19 patients, with just one in the ICU on a ventilator.
Currently, 17% of Sarasota Memorial’s COVID-19 patients are vaccinated, up from 10% a week ago.
“Many people ask about the significance of an increasing number of vaccinated people being admitted to the ICU or going on ventilators … and how this relates to vaccine efficacy (protection),” Gordillo wrote Tuesday.
Gordillo looked at all seven vaccinated COVID-19 patients in the ICU Monday and found that six were older than 65 and have more than three other health conditions, or comorbidities, that “raise their risk for more severe disease.” He also noted that three are “severely immunocompromised, issues known to lower vaccine efficacy to a significant degree.”
Gordillo added that, of the seven cases, there were two where COVID “played a role as a contributor in their hospitalization but they both had other major problems that led to ICU admission.”
Gordillo is spinning. They are reporting these vaccinated people as COVID patients. Now you’re saying their essentially lying. The don’t really have bad “COVID”. Sorry, but the numbers are what the numbers are.
“Sorry, but the numbers are what the numbers are.”
Yes that’s right. They are also statistically insignificant.
You consider “20%” or “17%” statistically insignificant? That’s not only crazy, it is wrong. I didn’t even raise the data from VAERS. The deaths from COVID vaccines exceed deaths from all prior vaccines. Like my title states, Nothing to See Here, Move Along. What flavor of kool aid are you swilling?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/09/us-averaging-70-deaths-per-day-due-covid-vaccine-since-july-24th-3296-covid-total-vaccine-deaths-recorded-vaers-website/
Larry,
The good doctor is not spinning, he’s just flinging fear with numbers.
“The average age was 68 among all vaccinated COVID-19 patients at Sarasota Memorial Tuesday,…” Lots of comorbidities, i.e. they were sick from something else and Covid is what he’s reporting.
1) 17% of 47 ICU patients are 8 patients.
47 Covid patients in a retirement community sure as heck is not representative of the Tampa area or Florida in general and most certainly not the USA.
2) VAERS data is unverified data, anyone who uses this as ‘proof’ is either ignorant or deceptive.
3) Gateway Pundit?
Gimme a break.
Fear, or to cloak oneself in her mantle, is the new virtue of the left. You must make others – the unvaccinated – comply, for their own safety of course. Some exemptions apply: USPS employees, Afghans flown out out of Kabul in Biden’s glorious Build the Taliban Back Better victory, illegal immigrants crossing the Southern border, attendees at Barack’s birthday party, or Pelosi’s fundraiser, they don’t need vacation, passports, or tracking.
Afghans coming into Dulles International were getting vaccinated. That was on our local news.
https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/ap-source-covid-vaccination-site-opens-arriving-afghans-79679188
Proof of vaccination is not the same as voter ID.
I like people that keep me on my toes. Pace me with agreeing that Biden is a crazy old fart and then slide in “hey we’re all the same because you guys want voter IDs and we want vax IDs”. Love it. Thx
Actually they were given Ivermectin before the plane took off from Afghanistan. I guess they were afraid of all the parasitic diseases they’d pick up in the US. Right? Right?????
TTG,
Afghanistan hospitals were never overwhelmed with Covid. QED.
Afghans going to Ft. Drum in NY state aren’t reported as getting innoculatged, but the base did remove a number of Americans from the BOQ so the Afghans could be installed there. Not on your local tv or mine. I’ll see if I can get another update on the “not on the news” news.
Members of Congress and their staff are also exempt from the covid injection mandate. How does Biden think he can pull off this stunt and maintain even a shred of credibility with the rest of us? (Rhetorical question)
Deap
The Congress is not under the authority of the president. Neither are federal judges.
Okay, then this stands for proof this is not a universal, national health emergency, since these other extra-jurisdictional agencies do not share Biden’s same hair on fire “covid” alarm.
Biden therefore is pushing only a selective mandate that impacts only a certain sub-group population with no rational basis to establish why only this unique sub-group should have mandated vaccinations and others do not.
A pox on both Biden houses, DC and Delaware.
Exactly, if the shot protects you, why get hysterical about someone who chooses to not to be injected with an experimental drug?
Larry, not only what you said, but based on my experience (admittedly anecdotal), the tales of medical system overload are likely exaggerated.
Of the 30 or so people that I personally know of who have gotten covid, not one one has died. That total includes me and three the other three members of my immediate family. I’m in my sixties and it was a very unpleasant ordeal that came with pneumonia and lasted weeks (including recovery), but for others, the experience was no worse than the flu. As has been reported by others, the younger seem to fare the best. My daughter who is in her twenties was back to normal in less than a week.
As for hospitals, I have relative who is an ICU nurse who says that covid is not overloading the hospital she works at. She says that there have been no more viral related deaths on average than before covid came along.
Also, and again this anecdotal, but I personally know of two people who are having blood related problems (one heart, one head) after getting the shot. Of course, people will rush to say it is all a coincidence. Maybe so, but in my lifetime, I’ve never experienced healthy people I know spontaneously developing symptoms like these out of the blue.
Another anecdote: I know of no one who has been seriously ill from, hospitalized for, or died from the Covid since the pandemic was rolled out in the media early 2020. I live in California on the central coast, for reference. No one.
To be honest, based on the accuracy of covid tests, I’m not convinced that the cases of covid that I know of, were all actually covid.
In my area, it seems like every one who gets a respiratory virus emerges with a covid diagnosis.
No hospitals were ever overrun, if anything less people went due to fear of contracting covid.
Larry,
I don’t see how the fascist lunatics think they can implement their illegal executive order (or whatever f*ck it’s supposed to be).
Companies with one 100 employees are going to how exactly verify every employees vax status or test status? How about booster status?
It’s just bat shit insane. I think the damn fools are bluffing. They can’t do it if even it was somehow legal; which it isn’t. If the courts could slap TROs on Trump’s immigration policies, then for damn sure there’s going to be a court with conservative judges that are going drop an atomic TRO on Biden’s fascist over reach.
But if that’s the hill they’ve chosen to die on, there’s a lot of us who will be there to make that happen too. They are taking a quantum leap in the direction of civil war. If they can force you to put experimental spike proteins into your body, then what will they do next. It must end right here and now. There are several states, like the one I live in (AZ), that have laws against this very federal imposition. This is 1860 all over again. The Biden admin and covidians have, like fools, rushed in……
I’m now developing a plan B for retirement – creating good forgeries of vax status. I’ve got 100 million potential customers. $50 bucks each.
“They are taking a quantum leap in the direction of civil war.”
The question is, is that the response they want.
IMO, Maybe – or maybe they’re too short sighted and delusional to understand. But pretty sure it’s what their Chinese masters want.
Larry, just my hillbilly mind speaking but your “invoking” the ol’ saying ‘lipstick on a pig’ might better be expressed in this case as, a ruby in a boar’s ass.
The signal difference between applying lipstick on some arbitrarily designated pig rather than having “some design” on the ruby in the boar’s ass is a whole ‘nother story.
Much as I’ve admired your work (and continue to) Mr. Johnson I’d commend you to heed the good Colonel Lang’s Virginia country upbringing.
I’m very nearly certain given Colonel Lang’s got some years on me, I’m even still old enough to remember a hog nearabouts here – fairly near Norfork Lake – respectfully known as “Bushrod” Colonel Lang’s ‘heard tell’ of the hard difference between trying to coax lipstick onto a pig as opposed to trying to command such as Bushrod’s ruby.
I never encountered Bushrod myself as “the old folks” told me about him but once when I was a fairly little kid, 14 maybe 15, I was very happy my Dad entrusted me with an M-1 carbine. “The old folks” general opinion was gloriful to myself even though I never wore that pair of Levi’s ever again.
When the leader of the “free” world aka POTUS mandates vaccination, the rest of the world can’t be too far behind.
Well, I guess it is a good way to get the disastrous Afghanistan pull out off the front pages.
Good piece Mr. Johnson. I have noticed much the same. Many of the arguments used are simply not sound. I think this has contributed to the politicization of public heath, which itself is a terrible thing to do. Poor government.
My suspicion is pharma lobbying is a significant factor but I really don’t like the NYTs and NPRs efforts at “epidemiology”. Its just junk.
Larry – I can’t reconcile the belief that we are over-reacting to Covid with what I’ve heard of how some hospitals in England were overstretched. We came close at times to breakdown of what are admittedly in any case overstretched health services in England. This I picked up at first hand rather than from newspaper or TV reports.
In the States I believe there have been similar occasions and this report indicates Idaho might be under pressure –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMI44lvML4c
So there’s definitely a disease there to be dealt with and the question is, as you mention, whether vaccination is the best way of going about that. I’d like to see more emphasis on treatment outside the generally approved guidelines as well but the pioneers on that in your country are rare and in mine I hear of them scarcely at all.
There’s also the consideration raised by Eric Newhill – that the minorities in the various Western countries are more likely to suffer severely from the disease than the rest. This is shown clearly by experience with the Somalis in Sweden though the stats on that aren’t, at least as far as I have seen in England, broken down in a way that shows the variation. You’ll recollect, however, that in California there was a drive to vaccinate Hispanic communities for just that reason. There’s a vulnerability there that is sometimes not recognised.
Given those considerations, and given that the disease in its various mutations is becoming endemic, there seems to be only the choice between mass vaccination and possible breakdown of health services. There are dangers, mostly as yet unknown, with vaccination but those dangers seem to be less than the dangers consequent on catching the disease itself. “Endemic” means we’re all likely to catch it sometime or other so it seems the best gamble is on the vaccine.
“there seems to be only the choice between mass vaccination and possible breakdown of health services.”
Come on! Haven’t you read this thread as well as the two previous ones on the same topic?
The vaccination DOES NOT WORK to prevent infections, contaminations and even severe cases, so how is it supposed to prevent breakdowns?
TREATMENT would prevent any problems, as it does in India but ONLY for the states that didn’t ban Ivermectin. 🙂
” – less than the dangers consequent on catching the disease itself when unvaccinated”, I should have said. But there also the balance of risk changes with age and condition.
That is the argument for vaccination. Some agree. Some don’t. The further argument, that I believe is more on your mind in your article, is whether we should force our fellow citizens who don’t agree to get vaccinated. On that surely the answer can only be n0, and let the chips fall where they may.
We have an epidemic of obesity in the US- this could very well over-burden hospitals since that has been shown to be primary co-morbidity.
Is Biden afraid of fat-shaming, since he refuses to demand only obese people should be forced to get this injection? Did Oprah put a kibosh on that suggestion, or was it Stacy Abrams.
Well Deap, the arguments for vaccination, and lockdown when needed, are in my opinion conclusive. In your view they’re not. Doesn’t look to me as if either one of us is going to persuade the other. We both of us think the other is dumb.
Although strictly speaking it’s none of my business, being so far away, doesn’t look to me like the political street fighter in the White House is going to persuade you either. He and his administration are more in the combative than the persuasive line. His medical back-ups, Fauci & Co, are looking more and more like cornered rats than the authoritative epidemiologists you could do with in such a position and it’s looks that count here when it comes to persuasion.
So the argument, figuratively speaking, shifts from whether one of us can persuade the other to whether one of us can force the other. And no comfortable grey areas we can take refuge in and fudge the issue, which is what’s usually done when politics gets heavy and there’s a risk of the place falling apart.
It then becomes a question of personal freedom. The mere fact of belonging to a country means that that is limited. To take the obvious case usually taken, I can’t decide, for instance, that I’m not going to pay taxes when my neighbour does. I get forced to do that whether I like it or not, and that irrespective of the uses the tax is put to.
Can I use the same argument to justify forcing you to get jabbed when you don’t want to? Hell no. That’s taking the argument too far. Way too far. Not going into why here for reasons of space but essentially it’s a question of degree and a question of the time factor, the time it takes for a political consensus to be formed and then translated into political action.
So no compulsion. That means, again figuratively speaking because we’re in different countries, that in my view you’re going to be putting me and my family at risk by refusing to go along with what I consider to be sensible public health measures. Putting you and your own family at risk too.
Tough. You see it another way. Democracy doesn’t mean I get to tell you what to do to that extent. Nor dodgy politicians on my behalf. You go your way as seems best to you and, as said, let the chips fall where they fall.
I took 2 Moderna shots. There won’t be a booster in my future. As far as I am concerned, I gave them the rope twice already, the third time I might actually get hung.
Larry
Just a quick point on this one: The full might of the politico-media propaganda machine has been brought to bear on the citizenry in order to whip up fear of the phantom plague to stratospheric levels. Fearful people are irrational and easy to manipulate. Biden himself has now encouraged the demonization of millions of Americans by stating that this is “a pandemic of the unvaccinated”. I would argue that a failure to resist an IO at this level of sophistication and intensity does not necessarily make one a moron. The victims of this brainwashing need help to come to their senses, only that way can they come to appreciate the nature of the real enemy; the above mentioned machine itself. Some will be ideologues beyond hope, but many others are ordinary people who still want to trust what they are told by their government. We may not have long to convert the latter before it is too late.
Based on data we have by know, there is an ever more powerful argument against vaccines —
1) vaccines DO NOT protect you from getting the virus (that is, become infected and shedding the virus (becoming infectious))
2) vaccines DO PROCTECT (temporarily) you from getting severe symptoms (but at a cost)
if you put the 1 and 2 together, basically what vaccines do, is turn vaccinated people into asymptomatic carriers, that is another word for superspreaders (or angels of death if you will) — because you have no symptoms, you don’t know that you are sick, therefore you do your normal thing (go out, go to places, etc.) while at the same time unknowingly infecting everybody around you. If you were not vaccinated, you would most likely have mild symptoms, meaning you would know that you are sick, and as a normal person you would stay at home, avoiding contact, saving bunch of people from the virus.
walrus,
> True, if it only affects the un-vaccinated it IS none of my business.
> However it can and does affect me:
> ….
Eric Newhill raised this topic, but let me take it one step further. Obese people affect me – they affect my wallet, since as a taxpayer I pay for (Medical, Medicaid, indirectly through ins premiums) expenses, and obese people have higher medical expenses. Obese people are also more prone to getting ill – their immune systems are not as strong as non-obese people (e.g. vitamin D deficiency is very common in obese people – obesity and lack of exercise and sunshine are very much correlated; vitamin D is essential for immune system, etc.) so obese people are more likely to be sick with a contagious disease, putting me at risk.
With that said, should the government mandate exercise (it is good for public health, directly and financially, after all)? Lots of bed-wetting hypochondriac “experts” are in favor of vaccine passports. So, should we also set up exercise passports? e.g. no public places for you, unless you got 5x1hr of exercise per week!
KK,
What I see on line is that obesity accounts for 13% to 15% of healthcare costs in the US. That’s a lot of money. However, I have been involved in internal studies for insurance that show obesity being behind more like 30% of healthcare costs. Obesity and sedentary lifestyle are highly correlated with excessive smoking, alcoholism and other conditions/behaviors that, in themselves, drive significant healthcare costs.
But Obesity itself leads to almost all of the major conditions that lead costs. There’s high blood pressure which leads to cardiovascular diseases, renal failure. There’s diabetes. Joint replacements (knees and hips mostly) are necessary to deal with joints destroyed by carrying all that weight around for years. There are even dermatological conditions. The list is long. I feel confident that obesity is responsible for 30% (or more) of healthcare expenditures in the US.
When obese people are insured and they cost all of that money, we (Insurance) have to raise premiums to cover the costs. So, that way, the costs are spread out across the entire risk pool (that’s everyone else with the same insurance). So healthy people/low cost covered lives are paying for the obese people’s expensive chronic medical issues; paying a lot. In a socialized system or govt funded insurance in the US, like Medicare, Medicaid, the tax payers are covering the expenses for them. They also take up a lot of hospital beds. Even in 2020/2021 the direct costs of obesity far exceeds those of covid. Actually, in commercial insurance (employer group and ACA/Obamacare) Covid costs have been very low. We just weren’t seeing the impact until we were made to pay for the vaccines and, to a lesser degree, the tests (most major insurance companies are eating the costs of these two procedures). So now we are going to have to raise premiums to cover those costs. That’s another cost of the vaccines (= higher premiums). ****The people ultimately are paying for vaccines that most of them do not need because they are not at risk.****
Why don’t we speak up against the vaccinations? Because we are heavily regulated by the govt. If we cross them, they can wreck us in many ways. Also, if the govt says that vaccines are the appropriate medical protocol, and we don’t pay for them – or recommend against them – we are open to lawsuits. So we are strong armed. I post under a pseudonym so I can say these things.
I do this for a living (understanding risk = cost drivers, the diagnoses, the procedures, the demographics, the trends in medical utilization/practice patterns) to assist in setting premiums, contracting w/ medical providers, etc. for a major insurance company. I’ve also worked closely with company Medical Directors to provide the data for case management program development to address issues like obesity and for developing authorization approval/covered benefits. I’ve been doing this since my late 30s, so 20 years. I know what I’m talking about.
To underscore what Eric just posted and deserves highlighting – this is a very powerful assessment from the inside of the health care industry:
………….”Actually, in commercial insurance (employer group and ACA/Obamacare) Covid costs have been very low.
We just weren’t seeing the impact until we were made to pay for the vaccines and, to a lesser degree, the tests (most major insurance companies are eating the costs of these two procedures). So now we are going to have to raise premiums to cover those costs. …………..
NB: This supports the Johns Hopkins CDC Morbidity data analysis that did not find “excess average all cause death numbers” in the covid year of 2020, but did find significant relabeling of cause of death as “covid” in lieu of the more typical heart disease, cancer, diabetes, CPOD, etc.
They gave a pandemic and no one showed up. Until we found the way to monetize it – VaccinesRUs. Everyone in the pool.
……Everyone with a BMI over 30 must lose weight or Biden suspends all direct or indirect government payments to them, plus forcing their employers to deny them health insurance …….
That might make more rational sense than this “covid” thing. But only if Biden was truly interested in science and the public’s health; not just partisan politics.
How well did do when banning smoking for public health reasons? Why did it lead to an explosion of recreational pot which gets a pass in many states today. I shall be combat ready if they dare come for my BBQ potato chips.
Check out this outrageous leaked video from a hospital in North Carolina inflating the unvaccinated C-19 numbers. This has become a joke.
“SHOCK VIDEO: SENIOR DOCTORS AND A MARKETING DIRECTOR AT a NORTH CAROLINA hospital DISCUSSED INFLATING COVID”
https://www.bitchute.com/video/ZcduHdRQ6SXi/
Harlan, I understand they get 13K for a covid designation and 39K if put on a ventilator. Nice money if you can get it.
Harlan Easly,
They were heavily incentivized to do that, especially last year.
Reimbursements to the hospital for an inpatient stay were increased by 13% (+/-) if a covid diagnosis was included on the claim (this is the facility. Not the doctor.An inpatient stay has two claims. Facility = hospital. That’s one claim for a stay. The doctor(s) that treat the patient bill separately with few exceptions).
On top of that, in 2020, hospitals were really hurting because their bread and butter (=elective surgeries) were cancelled. So the temptation to make up for that by identifying more patients as having covid was there. This is one reason I do not trust the covid mortality figures that covidians keep tossing at us. Patient has pneumonia? Let’s assume it’s covid and put that on the claim we send to insurance. If the patient dies, then the death certificate has to follow what is on the claim. That’s a more innocent scenario. Less innocent is heart attack, but patient is given a sketchy test that says covid. Put it on the claim and on the death certificate.
Yes yes yes the CDC says there are excess deaths so what I’m saying can’t be true. IMO, the excess death figures are doctored and misunderstood. There were excess death in 2020 and that is because people that truly needed care deferred it. I’m talking about serious acute conditions like appendicitis and chronic serious conditions like congestive heart failure. That killed a lot of people. Then there were suicides and drug and alcohol deaths. But mostly people who needed care not getting it. Then factors like an aging population hitting their expected life span in larger numbers (boomers).
Thanks Eric for the reply. No doubt this happened as you would know from your work. The video is even worse in my opinion. It is current and they are talking about falsely inflating unvaccinated C-19 hospitalizations and deaths to the local news in order to deceive the public about the Pandemic of the Unvaccinated. Where in reality the virus is still killing the elderly at 61% of total deaths compared to 81% before the vaccinations. And the pre-vaccination numbers are junk like you said. I hate these bastards for lying.
Harlan,
Just watched the video. Got it. Yes, that’s different than what I was talking about. Those witches are brewing up scary hospitalization volumes. Thanks.
No rational basis to exempt Congress members and their staff while forcing others to lose their jobs if they refuse an injection that still for the most part is experimental use only. (Moderna, J&J, and non-branded Pfizer)
Equal Protection Under the Laws – we are as equal as members of Congress, particularly since we the people create members of Congress. We the people are exempt.
Deap I guess you didn’t hear me when I said that Congress is not subject to presidential power.
Point taken.
What happens if everyone ignores this edict?
Civil disobedience is more powerful than threats of civil war. Plus too many employers are now looking for employees – they will gain a huge advantage if they reject this mandate on 30% who choose to remain uninjected. Daily Wire and MyPillow have announced they will not honor this edict.
Love it that Sucki was surprised at the mandate resistance, since this was ‘Trump’s Vaccine”. In fact, it was not. Trump brought this thing into production, but as an experimental drug product only. Can you imagine how sick their view of the rest of us must be in their private discussions, if this is what comes out of their strategy sessions?
Biden is the one who turned this Warp Speed experimental drug it into a one size fits all Loyalty Oath-Holy Grail. This franken-shot is now fully owned as Fauci’s Ouchie and Biden’s Debacle.
An observation: You can’t catch obesity.
A question that no one here seems to want to answer: Why are the leaders of the rest of the world, advised by the majority of the best and brightest doctors on this planet, working as hard as they can to vaccinate their populations as fast as possible?
In my opinion, the implications of that question are profound.
Another observation: The first countries that succeed in beating the virus (probably not the right word but you know what I mean) are going to have an economic and military advantage over those who lag behind.
Walrus,
First off, for the 10,000th time, the vaccine does not prevent you from contracting the virus, nor from spreading it. You have admitted this yourself, as does the CDC, et al. It’s almost like your suffering from aphasia. The different sections are your brain aren’t communicating with each other.
Second, in a way, yes, you can catch obesity. All the advertisements for fattening foods are designed by experts in the psychology of persuasion. One is bombarded by this material from all directions in modern society. It’s very presence on the shelves of stores represents an extreme risk to society. Why it is permitted is beyond me.
I am very proud and pleased with your enlightened government at least starting down the right path to controlling your population’s apparent gluttony and drunkenness by implementing alcohol controls during lockdowns. I hope they soon move to dietary restrictions as well. You deserve the very best wisdom government has to offer.
walrus
The WHO, which Trump tried to leave, has 194 members, more than the UN. Which country is the biggest source of WHO funding after the US? Well it’s not a country, it’s Bill Gates. Those noted conspiracy theorists at Politico (sarc) did a good piece on his enormous influence on the WHO in 2017.
“Some health advocates fear that because the Gates Foundation’s money comes from investments in big business, it could serve as a Trojan horse for corporate interests to undermine WHO’s role in setting standards and shaping health policies.”
https://www.politico.eu/article/bill-gates-who-most-powerful-doctor/
Gates is a major player at the WEF and one of the voices parroting their “Build Back Better [from Covid]” slogan. Take a look at who else is doing the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkcaeaD45MY
But don’t take my word for it, let’s hear from Dr Kerry Chant (Chief Health Officer of New South Wales): “We will be looking at what contact tracing looks like in the new world order..”
https://www.rt.com/news/534341-australia-nsw-new-world-order/
Profound implications indeed.
Walrus,
On obesity, you cannot catch it. Self-evident but a poor argument if the goal is Public Health.
The obese are at a much higher risk of dying from C-19. And even the younger obese are falling to the disease. So if the Public Health authorities were doing their job correctly then they would have developed an effective public relations messaging geared toward this susceptible group via vaccinations. But instead we get crickets. To play Devil’s advocate, maybe they feel everybody else would use it as an excuse not to get vaccinated. Still doesn’t save the obese who have decided not to get the vaccine.
But in fairness, these guys couldn’t sell ice water in Hell.
I am adamantly against the vaccine mandate. And will shoot anybody in the face who tries to physically attack me with the goal of giving me a shot.
I may or may not have antibodies to C-19. I was 49 years old and in excellent shape due to being a runner. And became very sick from a respiratory virus from March 2020 – April 2020. It NEVER went away. I had a fever for 60 DAYS. It was insane. It would get worse at night. My smell finally went 3 weeks into it. How did I know? My 14 year old girl dog was having accidents due to her age and I couldn’t smell the accidents anymore. Saw it. Missed 3 weeks of work and worked part-time to just survive after that.
Had to lay on my stomach to breath better and took hot baths at night. Bought an oximeter at 3 weeks. It came back 90. I started to laugh. I had just read go to the hospital if below 94.
So what did I do? I became desperate and starting searching the Internet. And guess what? Australia came to my rescue. Some scientists down under did an in vitro study. I like you understand in vitro studies are not in vivo. But when when you are desperate…
“A collaborative study led by Monash University’s Biomedicine Discovery Institute (BDI) in Melbourne, Australia, with the Peter Doherty Institute of Infection and Immunity (Doherty Institute), has shown that an anti-parasitic drug already available around the world kills the virus within 48 hours.”
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/678291
Ironic isn’t it? “Peter Doherty Institute of Infection and Immunity (Doherty Institute)”
Had it at the house. Farm supply. I had 3 dogs and it is expensive from the dog vet. So I had bought it online due to it being so cheap. Saved hundreds of dollars over the years. Must be my Semitic roots that I am unaware of. Calculated the math easily. All my girls lived a long life heartworm free. Long story short my oxygen went from 90 to 97 in 48 hrs. Placebo effect, maybe. Or maybe it worked. Or maybe it would have improved 7 points in 2 days anyway. Anecdotal, like the discovery of penicillin.
Now ask the question. Would I have took the vaccine if it was available in January 2020 and I could travel back in time? Well, I survived so natural immunity I prefer. But to be fair, I don’t know the answer to my question.
The vaccine doesn’t prevent infection because it doesn’t stimulate an IgA response in mucosal immunity(nose and lungs). It stimulates an IgG response in the blood that should migrate partially to the lungs via the lymphatic system. Therefore, theoretically preventing severity of disease.
The former is more important as a barrier to infection. Natural infection, because it is in the nose rather than a shot in the arm, stimulates these antibodies. The most effective vaccine would be a nasal vaccine. For some reason, they haven’t been effective in preventing respiratory diseases(flu).
Ask your Nobel Winning friend Peter C. Doherty. If he is honest with you, he will tell you this is correct. I personally believe he is an appeaser. This is not directed at you. I’m sure he is a lovely gentleman who prefers peace at all costs.
https://twitter.com/Bill_Wilson_1/status/1432679787961651200
Eric, yes of course the vaccine isn’t perfect but that is no excuse for not using it. Being vaccinated gives you a much better chance of avoiding serious illness.
Yes, in a way, you can catch obesity. I am appalled at what is marketed to Americans as food.
A friend recently observed that Covid19 is currently a disease of low income, badly educated people over here, judging by the epicentres of infection. These are the same people who are likely to be obese through an inability to discriminate between food types and the prevalence of cheap, ready to eat, tasty crap like McDonalds and harder to prepare and more expensive healthy foods.
Since most of those folk vote the equivalent of democrat, I suppose if I was really cynical I should encourage them to remove themselves by not getting vaccinated.
Have you thought about my question: why are other countries so keen to vaccinate their populations? Are they all part of a gk obal plot?
Are they all part of global plot?
Don’t know, but, it is safe to say that the people in charge all around the world can be bought with a fraction of the profits the big pharma is benefiting from this mandate.
Those politicians are cheaper than the call girls they hire.
From a continuing ed course on nutrition that I took a few years ago, the MD prof claimed fat cells are inflammatory cells. This would mean the obese body is already in a high state of inflammation, and may be why the obese hyper-react to a covid viral assault?
Covid was not in existence at the time of this course, nor was there any discussion of a link between prior corona virus impacts and obesity – just the discussion between other chronic disease that have been associated with obesity status as an additional co-factor like heart disease and diabetes, and even some cancers.
That is as much as I got from the course, as it was devoted to other topics ( status of by-prescription medicalized food products used today for various chronic health problems) and there was no follow up to this statement about fat cells being inflammatory cells.
But it is something to investigate more. Does the existing obesity-induced chronic inflammatory state fatigue the immune response, so it becomes less responsive when facing additional outside attacks that may not be significant for the non-obese?
P.S. The only alcohol control is regarding drinking in public instead of staying masked. Alcohol sales have skyrocketed during lockdowns.
Walrus,
There are stories all over the news in the states about alcohol restrictions in kangaroo land. Google it. Maybe the news is lying. If so what else are they lying about? Maybe the covid statistics you like to quote.
You believe what you want to and let me believe what I want to. All I know is that I have not died from covid, nor have my people. If you’re a frightened, sick old man, then I’m not going to argue anymore with your concerns, but stop telling me what is reality because you don’t know beyond what you see with your own eyes and hear with your ears, same as me. I couldn’t give a flying F of a fat rat’s ass what you think the “science” says because no one knows beyond the government/social media allies’ filters. Go ahead and cry and tear out whatever hair you might have left on your head. I could care less. Ain’t my problem. I’m living life as I have been since this whole idiotic thing began and before that.
Bojo must have finally gotten around to reading his UK Government’s own data — that for weeks shows:
1] Those getting covid shot are 2.3 times more likely to die after inoculation — for delta and delta plus variants than those refusing shot.
2] That the rate of increase is 3.2 times more for those getting shot versus those that refuse it viz. delta & +.
3] And shows 55% of delta and delta plus infections are those with the shots; versus 45% who chose against, as of most recent data from Sept. 3.
4] Aug. 6 UK Government data had indicated at that time: slightly more got infected that had not gotten the shot v. those that did.
Breaking news. . . .
The Sunday Times
Covid vaccine passports scrapped for winter by Boris Johnson
Tim Shipman and Caroline Wheeler
Sunday September 12 2021, 12.01am BST
—-Boris Johnson will announce this week that he is scrapping plans that would have required vaccine passports for entry to nightclubs, cinemas and sports grounds.
On Tuesday, the prime minister will announce plans to try to keep Covid under control over the winter. He will say that he has abandoned the proposed compulsory certification scheme, which would have forced venues to check people’s vaccine status.
Johnson tore up the proposals after scientists said vaccinations would be an effective first line of defence against a winter wave of the pandemic. But the move also represents a significant concession to Tory backbench rebels who had complained that enforcing vaccine passports would create a group of second-class citizens. [etc.]
++++++++++++
Fauci and Walensky and Garland and Biden and those adjusting his tele-prompter are too busy lying, hiding data, banning early covid treatment, pushing Big Pharma products, censoring scientists, lying, suing Texas, suing Florida, lying, prosecuting Jan. 6 political prisoners, lying, and so on and so forth . . . .
-30-
Presented without comment except to say “sounds legit” to my ear:
https://rumble.com/vm936v-whistleblower-nurse-destroys-delta-narrative-vaccinated-patients-fill-hospt.html
walrus
> Have you thought about my question: why are other countries so keen to vaccinate their populations? Are they all part of a global plot?
Why do lots of people think that covid-19 is a death sentence? As in, “if I get covid-19, then then I will probably die”. Last week, I read a report that something like 28% of people thought that if you get covid-19, there is 10% chance that you die. The real number is 0.2% (this is for an avg person; if you are old or obese, the risk is higher, if you are not old/obese, the risk is comparable to that of regular flu).
Seems to me that people are seriously delusional. I think lots of people are genuinely scared out of their wits. What do you think, how did they come to believe these crazy things? The are a lot of interested parties very much interested in pimping scare stories. Scared people are a lot easier to control.
But back to your question. There are a lot of honest, highly qualified people that have been silenced by media recently. E.g. Alex Berenson was recently banned by twitter for saying that covid-19 vaccines are not real vaccines, because they don’t prevent you from getting and spreading the virus. This was literally days before the CDC redefined the meaning of vaccine – now vaccine (according to CDC) does not provide immunity, it just invokes “immune response”. This was exactly was Alex Berenson was saying. So he was ahead of the curve, saying the truth a few days before CDC admitted it.
And his reward was getting banned by twitter.
I guess you could say that I am not a big fan of the official covid-19 related policy. Seems to me you are. So, what exactly is your problem with me? Is it that I am a danger to you? If this was true, you would stay away from me, and we would be fine. But that is not the real problem, is it? Isn’t it that the real problem you have with me
is that I am disobedient? I don’t bend a knee to the government, I don’t kiss ass, I don’t fall in line! And this cannot be tolerated.
Existential angst? Every generation faces existential this, one way or another. The Beat Generation. The Vietnam War Protestors. The you are all gonna die from covid generation.
Am I really alone in the universe, how will I die, and what more must I do or demand from others to protect me from existential fears? How do I face them alone before I die.
Asked rhetorically of course of the Branch Covidians, who have not yet done sufficient navel gazing, or read enough Kirkegaard to make up for their lack of traditional religiosity.
When nothing adds up about “covid”, and it does not, then one does need to dig down into something much deeper going on. Why were there Rebels Without a Cause in the 1950’s? Why are so many casting about for external blame, when in the past this sort of societal unease led to deeper personal introspection?
Now that’s an interesting comment, Deap. What struck me was your mention of traditional religiosity. Are you referring to Christianity, Judaism, Islam and other such religions as traditional? I consider these more newfangled than traditional. The old ways of animism and paganism is what I call traditional. I think you have to be brought up with some elements of those old ways to fully appreciate them. And I’m not talking about any of this new age or neo-whatever stuff.
TGG -I am talking about “traditional religiosity”. No need to define it. It is just the deep spiritual component of our human condition that has always yearned for expression in various forms throughout time and across various cultures. It is a component that transcends any institution or dogma, but often shares universal elements. Does this reside in our amygdala? Is it deep knowing, is it gut feeling, it is intuition? All I can observe is that is reveals itself as a deep yearning across all time and varied expression. “Religion” means the gathering together of scattered sticks. We live in very scattered times right now.
Ah. I would recommend “The Sacred and the Profane” by Mircea Eliade, but by your comment I get the feeling you are well familiar with that work. It definitely tracks with what you’re writing. That ancient deep spiritual component of our human condition where the sacred encompasses all is expressed today in the Jesuit call to see God in all things.
Kk, I have no problem with you or anyone else. I am not a fan of big government, big pharma or big business in general. I agree with everyone who believes that all Governments will try and use the pandemic to accumulate more power and control at your and my expense. Do I make myself clear?
Now these are all POLITICAL issues. They need to be settled by an informed populace holding their elected officials to account. What I cannot and will not abide is the dragging of science through the mud in a failing attempt use it to resolve political issues. That is what a lot of you appear to be doing, aided and abetted by ill informed or deliberately misleading, lying, axe grinding cranks on the internet.
There IS a pandemic, it’s not dreamed up by George Soros and Bill Gates.
Vaccination is not a plot to kill you or enslave you.
The public health bureaucrats, who have exactly the same faults as the rest of us, are trying to do their jobs as best they can, as are hundreds of thousands of doctors and nurses around the world.
…….and your response? “Ivermectin and zinc do a better job, vaccines don’t work, yadda yadda”. Do you have any idea of the number of people who have dedicated their lives to developing things like PCR testing and our knowledge of things like immunity?
Worse, because some of you are so focused on the scientists, you ignore the real POLITICAL issues; for example, we have found that the police have gained access to covid “check in, track and trace” apps here. That is a major issue, and what is the response? Astra Zeneca causes blood clots yadda, yadda”.
Then we have the disgusting spectacle of Rand Paul trying to demonise Anthony Fauci. Rand Paul wouldn’t know a chimera virus construct if it bit him on the leg.
Attacking the science is pointless and counterproductive. You should instead be thinking about the politics of how we are going to have to live with this virus. Trying to make the science go away just plays into tyrants hands.
This gentleman won the Nobel Prize for inventing the PCR test.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXm9kAhNj-4
It’s been misused under an EUA that expires Dec.31.
It was never meant to be a diagnostic test for illness.
walrus,
“we have found that the police have gained access to covid “check in, track and trace” apps here.”
That’s funny, it’s almost like “you ignore the real POLITICAL issues;” The police are part of the government, of course they have access to the apps. How else are they going to enforce the other ‘requirements’ of your despotic government that is weilding power using “pandemic” as tool of fear to restrict the movement and employment of your own citizens? But, by all means please chastise a US Senator for trying to get a US bureaucrat to answer a question without perjuring himself.
“You should instead be thinking about the politics of how we are going to have to live with this virus. ”
Rather than have financial cash cows of liability exempt manufactureres of vaccinations – mandatory for US citizens – I say that natural immunity is best. I will also point out the survival rates for the non-boomers and non-obese. That last is a scientific question we better not ask.
walrus
Yes, attacking science itself – other than through scientific counter arguments – is a fruitless exercise. But what many here are actually doing is attacking the highly skewed filter through which we are permitted to view the science.
Social media suppression of “health misinformation” has not helped. Censorship is profoundly corrosive to public trust, as regardless of the truth of the matter, plenty of people will assume a political agenda. In the era of the Politicization of Everything where we have Democrat government agencies working with social media companies on fighting “misinformation” of various kinds, it is hardly a surprise that science itself is a casualty. Mistrust All the Things. IMO this is a dire indicator of the direction Western civilization is taking, as beyond trust & rational discussion lies only madness. This is where the people who brought us Russiagate are rapidly taking us.
Re attacks on Fauci: Fauci does not have a “firm answer” about whether naturally acquired immunity is more effective than vaccines. This issue is of fundamental importance and I have yet to see his explanation of why persons who have acquired natural immunity should get the Vaxx on a voluntary basis, let alone via a mandate. The cautious approach would surely be not to Vaxx such persons. This non position on such a critical subject is utterly unacceptable and brings into question his integrity.
Here is probably not the place for a semantic discussion on the nature of enslavement, but I would pose the following questions:
On mandates:
– Do you believe Vaxx mandates should be employed and if so should natural immunity be ignored, as it is now?
On the Great Reset:
– Do you agree with its aims (to end personal property rights and personal liberties as we know them today)?
– Do you consider it a theoretical exercise or a reality that is currently underway?
– Do you understand concerns that the global* digital ID system used by “vaccine passports” is a Trojan horse to implement other aspects of the WEF’s agenda – in particular a digital currency scheme run by WEF partners which will replace national currencies, such that as per Revelation 13:16-17, one will not be able to buy or sell anything without the ‘mark’.
*The passport apps are designed to a global standard
Intended simply Barbara Ann to, add to your comment:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-ju6NPTZAMnw/YTur7Ox71UI/AAAAAAAC48s/mckig5mOd_w6t8pRZbEIO30YgQPgjTPowCLcBGAsYHQ/s16000/1%2B1%2Bsdsadfsdasdddddd.jpg
Dear Barbara,
To answer your questions, as to health misinformation, it seems that no matter how many times it is patiently explained that, for example, Israel’s experience of vaccines is just fine considering the current state of development or how PCR or rapid antigen testing works, there is always somebody that adds another layer of conspiracy and refuses to believe.
My advice to you is that there is no deeply planned world domination plot to enslave you through science.
Cheap politicians and lawyers looking for an angle to increase their power? Yes.
Does Fauci have a direct simple answer? No, because there is no direct simple answer at present. We are in a highly dynamic situation. The answers being demanded by Rand Paul and his ilk are not simple “yes” or “no” and in any case the answers change week by week. We are in a war situation and by definition that means we are in a learning situation. The faster we learn and adapt, the better off we will be. Demonising scientists and asking for absolute guarantees not only is pointless, it slows down are response times.
Natural immunity? In ten years time yes. Please consider that natural immunity without vaccines means a proportion of the population will be dead.
To put that another way, until Edward Jenner popularised vaccination, the world population had natural herd immunity – the infant mortality rate was maybe about 50%. If you survived childhood that meant you were immune to smallpox, diphtheria, whooping cough, cholera, typhoid and goodness knows what else. These days we vaccinate our kids rather than bury them.
Great reset – its political. It’s your problem.
Worldwide digital ID? I have a passport with biometric implant. I’ve had that for ten years, so what. Health card – I had an international health card in 1955. You had to be vaccinated to travel internationally for probably the last hundred years. So what?
Do you think that your government cannot track you and monitor your communications already?
walrus
Thanks for your response. I look forward to continuing our discussions elsewhere. In the meantime we’ll have to agree to disagree over the deeply planned world domination plot. The various threads are all in the public domain and I am far from alone in having connected the dots. I guess you think the Davos crowd simply have our best interests at heart, maybe some do, but in any case I have no intention of living in their hellish dystopian future. I agree the GR is a political problem, though I do not think it will stay that way for much longer.
walrus,
“Natural immunity? In ten years time yes.”
What science did you use to conclude it will take a decade?
“without vaccines means a proportion of the population will be dead.”
What proportion is that, the 65+% over 60 years of age who are obese and succumbing to secondary infections now? What was that population’s non-Covid life expectancy?
“You had to be vaccinated to travel internationally for probably the last hundred years. So what?”
I’ve never been asked my vaccination status in any of the nations in Europe or the Americas that I have traveled to in the past 4 decades. I have never been asked to prove vaccination status to travel internally in the US.
“Do you think that your government cannot track you and monitor your communications already?”
They did a masterful job on Trump, his campaign staff, and apparently Tucker Carlson. It was all illegal.
Walrus, What is your criterion for deciding which are “the best and brightest doctors on this planet, working as hard as they can,” and which are the cranks?
Is Anthony Fauci, who has never kept a doctor’s office hours or treated a roster of patients, among the “best and brightest” or the cranks?
Jeremy Levin is a medical doctor who also does not practice medicine but is a biotechnology entrepreneur. In an appearance on C Span last November
https://www.c-span.org/video/?478080-3/washington-journal-dr-jeremy-levin-discusses-biotech-research-coronavirus&event=478080&playEvent&auto
he explained how, in Jan. 2020, his industry turned on a dime to leverage massive federal financing to switch from cancer research, where the industry was having difficulty attracting more investors, to virus research, in which investors were more enthusiastic.
Levin explained how MrNA operates in cells. Among the important information Levin conveyed was this statement:
Jeremy Levin, “best and brightest” or crank?
If Levin is among the “best and brightest,” and Levin says that “some people can defend against virus, some cannot,” should we believe him and form policy on the basis that not every person requires (or, I would expand, benefits from and may be harmed by) MrNA vaccine? Or should a blanket decree be issued by the politicians you mention, that all persons must be vaccinated, regardless of their capacity to defend against virus without vaccine, and regardless of the situation that vaccine “strips away those [natural] weapons.”
Is Peter McCullough, who teaches and also maintains a clinical practice, among the “best and brightest” or a crank?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fsg6ev4OFJg&t=894s
How about Vladimir Zelenko, who has successfully treated some thousands of Covid patients using common therapeutics that are proscribed by “the best and the brightest?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Uz1XxqxZts
There’s the rub, Walrus: which science/scientist to trust?
As I understand authentic science, it has a built in trust-o-meter: even the High School home-school site Khan Academy mentions it: a scientific hypothesis must be able to be repeated — and criticized and rejected if the hypothesis fails to support claims made about it.
https://www.khanacademy.org/science/high-school-biology/hs-biology-foundations/hs-biology-and-the-scientific-method/v/the-scientific-method
A few years ago I needed to select a physician to treat cancer. I selected the doctor who had in his examining room a magnificent book of anatomical drawings. The oncologist showed me where diagnostic procedures had indicated that the cancer was in my body; what organs, nerves and lymph nodes might be involved; and why this procedure rather than that procedure seemed most likely to eradicate the cancer without harming other healthy tissue.
Anthony Fauci does not know what is going on in my body; neither does Joe Biden. For that matter, neither do McCullough or Zelenko, but at least they seem respectful of the dictum, First Do No Harm, as was my oncologist.
—
This is the closest I have come to the anatomy book in the doctor’s office: this video illustrates how MrNA forms very small blood clots and their impact, over time, on the human system:
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/08/20/how-mrna-vaccine-affects-cells.aspx
CDC Morbidity Reports is being coy about any excess numbers who died from suicide, drug abuse and any other “covid lockdown” malaise factors during these past 18 months. I suspect those too will be listed a “covid deaths”?
If you agree with Walrus and Fauci, you are the best and brightest. If you disagree with them, you are a crank.
If you are one of the inventors of mRNA tech and you say that only a F’ing idiot would take the vaccine. Then you are a know nothing. If you are a virologist and effectively treat patients with ivermectin and can show how/why it is effective, you are a crank. For these are not Walrus/Fauci approved techniques or ideas.
That’s how science is supposed to work, isn’t it?
Artemesia
This is the problem that the authoritarians have – there remains a few highly credentialed and highly reputable academics, physicians and scientists who still have integrity & moral courage.
The authoritarians naturally have molecular biologists, epidemiologists, physicians and others in the media including medical & science publications effectively on their payroll with funding distributed through research grants, Big Pharma, Big Hospitals, etc. There is a large contingent among this group who have been feeding at the trough for decades. This is how the groupthink is generated as all follow Upton Sinclair’s maxim that you can’t get a man to understand something when his salary depends on not understanding it. In the covid origins the most obvious conflicts of interest are among the those that Fauci, Daszak & Farrar assembled and had The Lancet publish that any questioning of natural origin of the virus is a conspiracy theory and the subsequent massive efforts at obfuscation. Note that the political elites, the intelligence community are all compromised as they’re all part of the revolving door that no one even brothers hiding anymore. Like Scott Gottlieb revolving out as head of the FDA to the board of Pfizer and now a constant TV pitchman for boosters to keep driving the market cap of Big Pharma to make sure the value of his stock options keep rising.
However, there are equally credentialed people from the same “top” institutions who have both independence and integrity. They are few and far between. One they come under immediate assault and are ostracized from the money-making club. Second, they are canceled and even worse made to look like that they have lost their marbles as they have done with Nobel laureate virologist Luc Montagnier.
For those with critical thinking abilities and are seeking the truth and not the groupthink propaganda, I would highlight a few folks worth listening to:
Martin Kulldorff – Harvard epidemiologist and professor of medicine.
Jay Battacharya – Stanford professor of medicine.
Sunetra Gupta – University of Oxford infectious disease epidemiologist and professor of epidemiology.
Anders Tegnell – chief epidemiologist for the government of Sweden.
These individuals who are equally credentialed as anyone walrus mentions have been vilified & canceled on Big Tech media because they a) argued that lockdowns cause more harms than benefit based on scientific reasoning & backed up with data; b) mask wearing is largely theater; c) the harm from shutting down in-person learning was substantially higher than the risks & costs from covid for school-going children; d) vaccination should be targeted at the most vulnerable (note they are not anti-vax) population segment and not mandated on those segments that are at low risk of hospitalization & death, and forcible vaccination of everyone against their will with a leaky vaccine is both immoral & unethical.
Of course those pushing the vax mandates at least in the US are the wokesters railing at “white supremacy” and the liberal limousine authoritarians. Note that BLM is silent even when those most hesitant to vaccines and are only less than 15% vaccinated is the poorer black and other minorities. This is the stark hypocrisy. Of course the Republicans and the MAGA types are equally authoritarian and happy to use the power of the state to drive their “moralizing” agenda.
walrus, IMO, feels obligated to support the authoritarianism of the Australian government who have even gone as far as to create internment camps.
Barbara Ann, I agree that naturally acquired immunity should be addressed. It appears that might be what was behind the recent drop in infections/deaths in India. This is from an Indian publication:
“The age disaggregation of the findings is important as it suggests that more than half the children of age 6-18 years, have antibodies by now. As many as 57.2 per cent children of age 6-9 years and 61.6 per cent children of age 10-17 years have already been infected once.”
“The highest seroprevalence — 77.6 per cent — has been found in people aged 45-60 years. They are followed by people above 60 years (76.7 per cent) and people of age 18-44 years (66.7 per cent). These three groups are being vaccinated currently.”
“Healthcare workers (HCWs) showed a good 85.2 per cent seropositivity. However, 13.4 per cent of them have reported as not receiving one dose of the vaccine while 10.5 per have reported of not having taken a single dose. In other words, one-tenth of the HCWs are not vaccinated.”
https://www.downtoearth.org.in/news/health/two-thirds-of-india-s-population-have-antibodies-against-novel-coronavirus-icmr-4th-serosurvey-78045
The more easily transmitted delta variant swept through households once one family member came down with it. The huge spike in infections and deaths was the result. But it also produced a high level of natural immunity. Vaccinations and ivermectin use may have helped, but their use wasn’t widespread or quick enough to be the primary cause of the drop in infections. If that happens here, especially with children spreading infection to their homes, we may soon see a similar drop off in infections as both natural immunity and vaccine immunity spreads.
I still think getting Covid is a shitty way to get immunity, but however it’s gotten, it ought to be recognized. Neither method produces long lasting immunity so some kind of simple test for antibody level would seem appropriate.
TTG,
“I still think getting Covid is a shitty way to get immunity, ”
why?
“… some kind of simple test for antibody level would seem appropriate.”
Why? We aren’t testing flu, which kills a 100K+ per year decades on end, or a number of other infectious diseases.
You must be kidding, Fred. Are you a proponent of measles parties and pox parties? The Covid vaccine has far less incidence of side effects than Covid itself. Of course I choose the vaccine route to achieve immunity. Now if you’re talking avoiding Covid AND the vaccine, that’s fine.
The flu’s worst year for well over a decade was 61,000 dead in the 2017-2018 season. That includes direct deaths from the flu and deaths from pneumonia brought on by the flu. The average annual death count is 36,000. When Covid reaches those numbers, the vaccine will be treated just like the flu vaccine, no big deal.
TTG,
Thank goodness you brought up blanket parties. I thought perhaps you had forgotten that smallpox has a fatality rate upwards of 30%, unlike the thing you are in a panic over. Thanks for the clarifying the actual death rate from the flu. I feel much better not having gotten all those shots the past half dozen years.
That’s chicken pox, Fred, chicken pox. I don’t know of any instances of trying to get smallpox. Although that is a way of getting natural immunity to smallpox.
TTG,
Excuse me for not catching on you were just blowing me off with a comment about a childhood disease. Unlike you I’m not in the at risk age group for Covid.
I will revoke my thanks about that flu data, turns out you are wrong. Unlike the CDC CNN has completely obscured what they wrote in 2018.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/09/26/health/flu-deaths-2017–2018-cdc-bn/index.html
The CDC site still says 61,000 as the estimate for that season. Those figures are updated as new data comes in, sometimes taking two years. I remember it also had that figure a year ago when we first started wondering if the Covid tally was going to surpass the flu tally. The CDC site also explains in detail how it arrives at the flu estimate which shouldn’t instill confidence in the flu figures. It’s a true SWAG.
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/index.html
TTG,
” Those figures are updated as new data comes in, sometimes taking two years.”
Like Cuomo’s murder total, now standing at 37,000. Of course it wasn’t murder, just medical malpractice.
“It’s a SWAG”.
You mean there is little science but much politics. We would be better off to institute fat shaming and banning high-fructose corn syrup and seed oils from our food supply.
It may be wrong to think of acquired and natural immunity as a binary issue. Particularly if one were to view those two things as mutually exclusive.
A vaccinated person may feel no symptoms when exposed to live COVID virus but their immune system does, and an immune system which has successfully fought off a live infection is what is being termed as having natural immunity.
Given how wide-spread and contagious the Delta variant is, it’s tough to tell whether a vaccinated individual’s immune system is working with an acquired or with a natural response…or even, perhaps, with some combination of both.
https://twitter.com/vtchakarova/status/1437161325684301825?s=21
The Asch Effect and groupthink orthodoxy.
‘walrus’ said: “There IS a pandemic, it’s not dreamed up by George Soros and Bill Gates.”
That would be self-evident, if it were true. Show me the “pandemic”.
I believe in enlighten self-interest in vaccination. And they do work.
Sky News’ Ed Conway has a graph that shows the benefits for different age groups in surviving COVID-19 if you’re vaccinated using the vaccines used in the UK.
https://twitter.com/EdConwaySky/status/1436264867120439296
Also a couple of points.
Vaccines are not a guarantee of surviving COVID-19 but it improves your odds significantly. Are there age groups which don’t need vaccines (besides those with medical conditions)? Yes, Conway’s graph shows them clearly.
Furthermore the vaccines developed have different durability. The ons used by Israel are ca 33% less effective after only five-six months which is why they have a surge in new cases.
The whole forcing people to be vaccinated is based on the idea that you can somehow eradicate the virus. The problem is that only works if the entire planet is vaccinated. Not a believable solution IMO.
Haiti is the poorest country in the Western Hemisphere and it has one of the lowest COVID death rates in the world.
https://www.coronatracker.com/country/haiti/
https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/countries-and-territories/haiti/
Could the reasons be any of the following?
1. People are skinny, really skinny and they have to walk everywhere
2. Malaria is constant threat so people take HCQ
3. They are so poor big Pharma ignores them
4. So poor they have yet to take the vaccines
From the Free and Sane State of Florida, our Governor response to Bidenista mandates:
https://mobile.twitter.com/bennyjohnson/status/1436409969071493125
Long twitter rant in response to Biden declaring he is tired of public resistance to his covid mandates: (full of flying F words)
https://twitchy.com/samj-3930/2021/09/12/you-think-your-patience-is-running-out-lol-fk-you-epic-thread-from-the-unvaccinated-kicks-so-much-as-and-takes-all-the-names/
The Search For Vaccine Immortality
Evidence says it’s fantasy implying (((1] Politics))) and ((( 2] “The Science”))) are anything but:
(((2]))) follows (((1]))).
Those were political decisions to:
1] Deem vaccination as The Final Solution, back on Jan. 15, 2020 as “worth the risk” — over and above: equal, or more resource allocation to prevention and cure.
1a] Political decision to deem “it is out of the question” to provide any Emergency Use Authorization for treatments; while before-the-fact promising those to Moderna and Pfizer vax manufacturers.
2] political decision to throw billions of dollars — not at prevention and cure, rather: billions and billions creating experimental vaccines.
3] political decisions to block and malign prevention and cure, to boot.
4] political decision to “warp speed” vax.
5] political decision to block, using all means, treatments.
5a] political decision to censor and block the many warnings from spring 2020 forward, ongoing and continuing: potential dangerous consequences of mass vax during pandemic, such as mutations run amok, deaths, injuries, permanent disabilities.
6] political decision to block treatment, to tell the sick, already in hospital: go home until you are so ill you need hospitalization; and provide the sick ZERO treatment.
And don’t say these things didn’t happen.
7] political decision to absolve vax manufacturers of all liability
8] political decision to deny superior herd immunity, and deem vax immunity superior
9] political decision to bully health care providers to shut your mouths and keep them shut about adverse vax effects, once they were rolled out in USA circa mid December, 2020. To shut up or else.
And don’t say this is not happening, and continues.
10] Political decisions to use narrative: covid infections bad in 2020; covid infections OK in 2021 — provided you got vaxxed.
Don’t say this isn’t happening.
11] Political decision for Biden to call Xi and Putin tyrants while extra-constitutionally attempt to mandate businesses to make their workers be vaxxed, or else.
12] political decision to have so-called covid tests run at 35+ cycles knowing full well results from this are garbage. . .
13] political decision to lower this cycling when the inevitable breakthrough cases began to proliferate
13a] political decision to hide data on breakthrough cases
14] political decision to count a death a ‘covid death’ on a death certificate without evidence that it be a death DUE TO covid
15] thus a political decision to inflate death counts, irrespective of “the science” and absent evidence [just as 35+ threshold political decision to inflate case counts, irrespective of science].
16] political decision to hide data on vax injuries, deaths, to American public
17] political decision to threaten doctors that use and prescribe IVM and chloroquines to their patients; and now to ban doctors from treating their patients.
Don’t say these things did not happen.
18] political decision to claim Vaccine Effectiveness = 95% for mRNA shots.
19] political decision to hide the actual VE [approaching VE=ZERO].
20] political decision to deploy military grade propaganda pushing the political decisions and wrap them in veneer of “The Science.”
21] political decision to ban children from schools, and now mask them, and now vax them despite fact: risks from these shots far far far outweigh benefits
It is one thing for us old folk to be worried for our own health and security and the like.
Another entirely to throw our kids to the wolves, knowing full well we are throwing them to the wolves.
And it was a political decision NOT TO mandate any vax trials on the short term and long term effects of covid vax on pregnant women! This is a political and a criminal decision, perhaps.
We have no idea the risks on this essential dimension; no trials on pregnant women [the CDC terminology is “pregnant persons”].
And no one put a gun to Fauci’s head when he stated: an attack on me is an attack on science.
This very sick man in charge of COVID USA.
No one put a gun to Walensky’s head when she stated: we have hope, we don’t have data.
She, in charge of CDC.
“John Tukey once said that the collective noun for a group of statisticians is a quarrel. This applies to other scientists, too.”
Among the most eminent and knowledgeable MD and scientist in USA [and among the earliest in 2020 who was censored] recently discussed his take on the perfidy: the political decisions . . . and these, from and because which: men like him were attacked without reason. He dared critique the narratives created, the political narratives dressed up as science:
“But ‘we are at war’ led to a step beyond: This is a dirty war, one without dignity. Opponents were threatened, abused, and bullied by cancel culture campaigns in social media, hit stories in mainstream media, and bestsellers written by zealots. . . .Wikipedia pages were vandalized. Reputations were systematically devastated and destroyed. Many brilliant scientists were abused and received threats during the pandemic, intended to make them and their families miserable. . . .Politics dressed up as public health not only injured science. It also shot down participatory public health where people are empowered, rather than obligated and humiliated.”
This man also said the below, published Sept. 8 2021.
Written by John P.A. Ioannidis MD, Professor of Medicine, of Epidemiology and Population Health, and Professor of Biomedical Science and Statistics at Stanford University.
[Other potentially conflicted entities became the new societal regulators, rather than the ones being regulated. Big Tech companies, which gained trillions of dollars in cumulative market value from the virtual transformation of human life during lockdown, developed powerful censorship machineries that skewed the information available to users on their platforms. Consultants who made millions of dollars from corporate and government consultation were given prestigious positions, power, and public praise, while unconflicted scientists who worked pro bono but dared to question dominant narratives were smeared as being conflicted. Organized skepticism was seen as a threat to public health. There was a clash between two schools of thought, authoritarian public health versus science—and science lost.
Honest, continuous questioning and exploration of alternative paths are indispensable for good science. In the authoritarian (as opposed to participatory) version of public health, these activities were seen as treason and desertion. The dominant narrative became that “we are at war.” When at war, everyone has to follow orders. If a platoon is ordered to go right and some soldiers explore maneuvering to the left, they are shot as deserters. Scientific skepticism had to be shot, no questions asked. The orders were clear.]
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/science/articles/pandemic-science
++++++++++++++++++++++
PS
Scientific method, designed to create knowledge.
Knowledge, used to predict.
Prediction used to inform.
Information, to survive, in life.
Knowledge gleaned via scientific method, most agree, is superior to other methods.
Why is that?
Assumptions built into scientific method.
Scientific method, over course of history, replaced philosophy.
Philosophy in time replace organized religion.
Organized religion replaced various and sundry sect, cults, denominations, etc.
And those replaced the family as the institution with legitimacy to inform tribes how best to survive, given what was known as knowledge at that time.
Prior to sedentary and semi sedentary, agricultural societies, hunter and gathering.
Legitimacy of scientific method rests on it usefulness, or efficacy, in providing superior knowledge, compared to other methods.
And at least a promise of prediction: what is track record of those in power and with government power, viz. their predictions, all along this sorry and winding road?
Fauci recently claimed that attacks on him were attacks on science.
Walensky recently claimed we have hope we don’t have data.
Biden recently claimed no mandates; now flip flopped.
Legitimacy of scientific method does not automatically wither away with slapdash and tomfoolery exemplified by above trio.
The method stands, maintains its legitimacy irrespective of nonsense and heinousness.
Its usefulness and more importantly its acceptance, its legitimacy, indissolubly linked to being able to:
1] predict phenomena
2] inform other scientists and leaders and the public
3] and create paths for perfecting knowledge known at that time
This is to prevent hysteria and panic [read Conrad’s Lord Jim, a fascinating treatise on man confronting . . . .]
When thousands of scientists and medical doctors the world over exclaimed: tried and true prophylactics are always the first option to deal with disease, what happened?
Thousands of scientists and medical doctors on public-funded payrolls not only disputed their science-based concerns, they conspired with big media and big government and big tech to shut them up. Instead of talking things through.
When thousands of scientists and medical doctors the world over warned vociferously about perils of ignoring and banning tried and true scientific methods viz. covid shot development —- thousands of scientists and medical doctors on public-funded payrolls not only disputed their science-based concerns, they conspired with big media and big government and big tech to shut them up. Instead of talking things through.
When thousands of scientists and medical doctors the world over pointed out extremely abnormal volume of side effects and injuries and permanent injuries and deaths after covid shots, thousands of scientists and medical doctors on public-funded payrolls not only disputed their science-based concerns, they conspired with big media and big government and big tech to shut them up. Instead of talking things through. And worse, hiding this information from us.
The conflict between thousands of scientists and medical doctors and those on public/government payrolls is not going to disappear.
And it is obvious, or should be, which side, in this instance, has no interest in talking things through. And this is a political decision on their part. The very definition of a political decision.
The side that refuses to talk things through and conspires with big media and big tech to silence medical doctors and scientists: are not, by definition, scientists at all.
Though they possess the title, and via big media and big tech, are ascribed prestige and false legitimacy: they do not possess in their actions and deeds concrete legitimacy. This social fact, a manifold and fundamental truth. An American Tragedy.
We are seeing play out consequences of “scientists” using “the science” to achieve, more than anything else: an economic and political agenda.
Using “public health.”
The below, at the time, 2004, attributed to a President George Bush White House official/aid, while Iraq and Afghanistan wars were in earlier stages.
“We’re an empire now. . . ”
[[[The aide said that guys like me were ‘in what we call the reality-based community,’ which he defined as people who ‘believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.’ […] ‘That’s not the way the world really works anymore,’ he continued. ‘We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors…and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do’]]]
As the Stanford MD wrote: the absence of routine and heretofore normal and expected and essential conversation, prior to covid hysteria among scientists, was expected and was essential, but now, “the pandemic fueled scandals and conspiracy theories, which were then treated as fact in the name of science by much of the popular press and on social media. The retraction of a highly visible hydroxychloroquine paper from the The Lancet was a startling example: A lack of sharing and openness allowed a top medical journal to publish an article in which 671 hospitals allegedly contributed data that did not exist, and no one noticed this outright fabrication before publication. The New England Journal of Medicine, another top medical journal, managed to publish a similar paper; many scientists continue to heavily cite it long after its retraction.”
Heaven help us.
-30-
Jim
“Heaven help us” – indeed, or as Heidegger put it; “Only a God Can Save Us”. Your comment on science supplanting philosophy and religion brought Heidegger’s 1966 interview with Der Spiegel entitled thus, to mind (link below).
I’ve been trying to get to grips with Heidegger recently. Heidegger was perhaps the first to grasp the implications of our modern scientific, technological age’s unstoppable progress and where it will inevitably lead. He argues that we are no longer masters of our science & technology and that it has a momentum all of its own. He warns its relentless advance will endanger our epistemology, our psyche and our very humanity (with the advent of transhumanism). I believe this is exactly what we are starting to see now. Science & technology are seemingly no longer just in the service of mankind, we are seeing the beginnings of ourselves in service to them. This is exemplified by scientism inspired mandated “vaccines” which mess with our very DNA. OK, mRNA for the pedants.
If anyone is interested in reading the Der Spiegel interview I’d recommend starting about half way through (search for the first occurrence of “modern technicity”). The reason being, the first half of the interview is a prologue to rehabilitate & absolve Heidegger of his past associations with National Socialism. Inevitable, I guess. Here it is anyway:
http://www.ditext.com/heidegger/interview.html
Barbara Ann,
The advanced technology is now a weapon of the plutacratic insurgency.
Heidegger understood that only a thin, invisible gloss separate enlightenment concepts of modern science from whence it came — and that tendency is always reversion back to its roots. It hangs by a thread always; and for now, science has been interrupted, and what is filling this vacuum?
Modern man in western world made mistake separating science, the progeny of religion and philosophy, from its heirs. In terms of the epistemology: this is a gross error. [Consequence of this mistake is inability to immediately perceive when it reverts back to its roots–its pre science state. . . since its assumed science stands on its own. Except it did not appear out of thin air.]
The error of epistemology, rather, this gross epistemological error: playing out in the absurd and the irrational performance by social actors imagining they are men and women of science:
1] the outright denial of this observable phenomena by so many that should know better
2] their employing myths. . . . ‘playing out’ as science: in fact not acting as science workers and/or scientists; and they can’t conceptualize they are dealing in myths and fantasies or as we used to say: happy horse sh*t.
These erstwhile science workers instead acting with political bludgeon and/or zealotry: pushing dogma — because they have the power and cannot be stopped, at least not yet.
Fauci and Walensky’s most unfortunate recent comments epitomize this failure of science, a reversion to pre-philosophy ‘faith’-based conceptions and/or reification of science. They are dealing in faith-based pre-enlightenment “thought” — during this interruption.
They are actually painful to listen to. Their performances so pathetic and outside what used to be norms of science.
This current class of so-called scientists are analogous to George Kennan, so-called scientist [political scientist] of Cold War Doctrine immediately post WWII.
He provided political leaders an ideological road map, a frame of reference, the “intellectual gloss” — and they took it from there, and Kennan, largely irrelevant. However, he remained a “symbol” of the “political science” underpinning US post WWII cold war dogma.
Fauci and Walensky [and many others of their ilk] are modern day George Kennans — social actors posing as experts.
Their leadership boxed into a predefined, a priori goal.
This was never how science ever functioned. It is how politics and political economy operate.
I often wonder if Col. Lang’s prediction from earlier this year: that a Napoleon will come along. . . will come to pass.
A strongman who would re-impose reason and rationality of necessity, as our country now continues sinking under weight of incompetence and myriad contradictions.
The worse this keeps getting, the more this seem like it could come to pass.
I was just listening to a recent news conference with DeSantis in Florida.
He kept harping on early treatment and freely acknowledged this is needed even more now with break through cases sky rocketing.
It’s surreal that something this obvious is not common and worse, that he is targeted for doing what is rational. And until 18 months ago, boilerplate.
Maybe we’ll have a DeSantis instead of a Napoleon.
DeSantis was sincere and focused.
Americans like everyone have a way of getting into pickles; and here, we also seem to be able to turn on a dime, and fix things, and move on as if nothing happened.
Perhaps we are in a phase of a last-ditch desperate attempt to vax everyone; and that of course will fail, and when they’ve given up trying, all of a sudden out of no where treatments will be all the rage — as if nothing happened.
Israel is already going down that road. . . .
-30-
Jim
Many thanks for sharing your thoughts on Heidegger. He is relatively new to me so any reading recommendations would be greatly appreciated. I plan on working though his set of lectures on Holderlin’s “Der Ister” next.
Your articulate thoughts mirror my own on the dawning age of scientism. Not sure DeSantis is a Napoleon, but we’ll see. Much will depend on how desperate those behind it are to push this insane agenda. I’ve seen speculation that the Great Reset is to include a controlled demolition of the economy, perhaps using the excuse of a cyber attack (look up Cyber Polygon). If it gets that far the next leader to emerge will more likely be one closer to Heidegger’s personal experience, I think.
Going back to the beginning: April 2020 – CATO Institute – Modeling “covid” death projections and distribution, picked up immediately by the NYT and turned into the first real covid porn attack that instantly changed public policy.
Take this trip down memory lane, back to the very early days of this 2020 election year “pandemic”:
https://www.cato.org/blog/how-one-model-simulated-22-million-us-deaths-covid-19
Politico has a quite interesting article about the 1905 Supreme Court precendent for vaccine mandate.
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2021/09/08/vaccine-mandate-strong-supreme-court-precedent-510280
“Real liberty for all could not exist under the operation of a principle which recognizes the right of each individual person to use his own, whether in respect of his person or his property, regardless of the injury that may be done to others”.
TonyL,
Yeah, the same supreme court which also said “3 generations of imbeciles is enough” and authorized forced sterilization of the people in the US.
No thanks. Stay home, stay safe; mask, vax, second vax, booster and rebooster yourself.
“The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates”
Again with the Smallpox. Sure, reductio ad smallpox can doubtless be used to argue the government can inject you with anything they like, lock you up indefinitely for the good of others and if necessary euthanize you for having the temerity to consider your body is not their property. F__k Politico and their chicken s__t legal arguments. Liberty is dependence, freedom is slavery, yada yada. If the Vaxx cured all known disease and caused the recipient to lay golden eggs I would still utterly oppose mandating it.
Barbara Ann,
Right on Sister.
I’m with you.
Politico throws out garbage “legal arguments”.
They, along with other pro-vax propagandists throw out their incorrect interpretation of Jaccobson v MA (1905) where they falsely claim that the govt can use force to jab you. Well folks, Jacobson doesn’t say that.
In a more recent SCOTUS ruling:
CRUZAN V. DIRECTOR, MDH, 497 U. S. 261 (1990)
Chief Justice Rehnquist declared in his majority opinion regarding the right to refuse life saving treatment:
“every human being of adult years and sound mind has a right to determine what shall be done with his own body”
From the same same ruling it get’s even better:
Page 497 U. S. 262
(b) A competent person has a liberty interest under the Due Process Clause in refusing unwanted medical treatment. Cf., e.g., Jacobson v. Massachusetts, 197 U. S. 11, 197 U. S. 24-30.
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/497/261/
Why has Biden prevented the use of cheap rapid “covid” tests in the US? First world, socialized medicine Netherlands has them in supermarket sale bins.
https://reason.com/2021/09/09/why-the-hell-has-the-fda-not-approved-cheap-rapid-covid-19-self-tests-yet/?utm_content=buffer8f5a7&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer%5D
One more US cognitive dissonance about “covid”. The only thing the US pushes is the injection and arbitrary banishment of the un-injected.
Where does Typhoid Mary fit into this discussion? Was she deliberately infecting people? Or was she wrongly quarantined for only wanting to make a living in the only trade she knew? It was for 30 years until her death. Why just her and not any other asymptomatic carriers?
https://pushingrubberdownhill.com/2021/09/07/the-unvaccinated-will-be-the-new-smokers/
I think the fellow is onto something. And, he’s got a follow-up post due to commentors as I understand it:
https://pushingrubberdownhill.com/2021/09/08/everything-they-have-told-you-is-a-lie/
(Thanks MP for calling my attention the that.)
We knew who the smokers were, so they could be shunned outright. Stinky. How will the unvaxxed be so readily identified, allowing the mob to send them into instant purgatory. That we don’t carry the mark of the beast?
From The Atlantic: New studies digging deeper find covid hospitalization rates may be only one half of what has been previously reported, since “covid” was only incidental to the hospital admission; not the cause of the hospital admission. (It is a stretch even rely on any covid test still.)
Since this is still a rudimentary time for data-gathering data and analysis, NO ONE can mandate universal experimental injections for a condition that no one has even been able to define or document.
https://therightscoop.com/new-study-suggests-covid-hospitalizations-are-only-half-of-what-is-claimed/
Maybe the bottomline is the government cannot solve covid. Just like it cannot solve the flu or the common cold. Changing presidents in the US will not solve covid. Maybe the ultimate covid solution is changing the narrative.