Open Thread – 12 January, 2014

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71 Responses to Open Thread – 12 January, 2014

  1. Neil Richardson says:

    I’m curious as to what other regional specialists think about this piece by Anna Simons. IIRC she’s married to a former SF man whom she’d met while doing fieldwork for her research on Somalia.
    http://warontherocks.com/2013/12/rebooting-country-studies/
    Rebooting Country Studies by Anna Simons

  2. Tyler says:

    Any apiarists around?

  3. Bandolero says:

    Heavy fighting is currently going on in Syria, triggered by a push from some anti-government groups against ISIS.
    It’s a bit confusing not least because the coalition that is presented in many media outlets as a fight of “moderate rebels” against ISIS, a group of Al Qaeda in Iraq, seems to include Nusra Front, Al Qaeda’s official Syrian branch, on the moderate side.
    And the moderate rebels pushing against ISIS seem also not all to be very big fans of human rights. The British based Syrian Observatory reported that both sides summarily execute captured of their opponents, moderate rebels have presented bodies of people and claimed ISIS did it, but later the dead proved at least to be in part executed ISIS figthers, and the Observatory also published that some moderate rebels have taken hostage the sister and the mother of an ISIS commander and raped the mother to punish ISIS. ISIS for their part sent about a dozen SVBIEDs attacking their opponents in the last days.
    The hospital in Raqqa announced yesterday people should come to try to identify the dead because it has 70 unidentified bodies. But that’s not the end. Today the Ahrar Al Sham rebel group claimed ISIS just executed more than 100 of their members in Raqqa.
    Here are some headlines:
    Reuters: Group linked to al Qaeda regains ground in northeast Syria
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/01/12/us-syria-crisis-qaeda-idUSBREA0B0JD20140112
    CNN: Nearly 700 killed in Syria rebel infighting
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/01/12/world/meast/syria-violence/
    Al Jazeera: Syrian troops push towards Aleppo city
    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/01/syrian-troops-push-towards-aleppo-area-2014112105719722237.html
    A hard battle seems to be currently also going on in the city Saraqib in Idlib province, where western backed rebels just make a push to dislodge about maybe a 1000 ISIS guys. However some other rebels seem trying to send some heavy reinforcements to ISIS in Saraqib:
    http://www.youtube.com/embed/SBEM7V5Z21o
    To make it short: that all looks like a big bloody mess.

  4. Allen Thomson says:

    Oh, good, I was hoping that we’d get an open thread. Which allows me to ask y’all what to think about these recent solicitations on http://www.fbo.gov. They look kind of interesting in light of current events in, what else, the Near East, but OTOH could be pretty routine business as usual.
    http://tinyurl.com/puek96c
    Solicitation Number: W15QKN13T8515 July 18 2013, asks for
    1. 2,000,000 each 7.62x39mm Ball, delivered to Camp Stanley in Boerne, TX(*)
    2. 550,000 each 7.62x39mm Ball, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    3. 575,000 each 7.62x39mm Blank, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    4. 425,000 each 9x18mm Ball, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    http://tinyurl.com/ntuoaqm
    Solicitation Number W15QKN13T8513 29 July 2013, asks for
    592,825 (approx) AK Rifle Magazines, 7.62x39mm Caliber, New Production, 30 Round Capacity
    (*) I note that Camp Stanley may have facilitated past CIA weapons transfers to friendly parties. Dunno about the Blue Grass Army Depot.

  5. Allen Thomson says:

    Oh, good, I was hoping that we’d get an open thread. Which allows me to ask y’all what to think about these recent solicitations on http://www.fbo.gov. They look kind of interesting in light of current events in, what else, the Near East, but OTOH could be pretty routine business as usual.
    http://tinyurl.com/puek96c
    Solicitation Number: W15QKN13T8515 July 18 2013, asks for
    1. 2,000,000 each 7.62x39mm Ball, delivered to Camp Stanley in Boerne, TX(*)
    2. 550,000 each 7.62x39mm Ball, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    3. 575,000 each 7.62x39mm Blank, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    4. 425,000 each 9x18mm Ball, delivered to Blue Grass Army Depot
    http://tinyurl.com/ntuoaqm
    Solicitation Number W15QKN13T8513 29 July 2013, asks for
    592,825 (approx) AK Rifle Magazines, 7.62x39mm Caliber, New Production, 30 Round Capacity
    (*) I note that Camp Stanley may have facilitated past CIA weapons transfers to friendly parties. Dunno about the Blue Grass Army Depot.

  6. Ramojus says:

    Thoughts regarding the death of Ariel Sharon?
    Regarding Sabra and Shatila, I considered him an unrepentant war criminal; but later on, with the withdrawal of Jewish settlements from the Gaza Strip, I found him to be enigmatic.
    At least he’s been finally released from his “prison” of the last seven years. A deserving penance?

  7. It is clear to me that Governor Christie will NOT be the Republican nominee in 2016! Dead man walking?

  8. At The Virginia Capes says:

    As we are coming into the centenary of the “War to End All Wars,” the BCC has a continuing series on World War I at:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/ww1
    Interesting reading.

  9. Tyler says:

    That’s a whole lot of eastern bloc ammo, especially the Makarov stuff.

  10. Alba Etie says:

    Would refer you to the Central Texas Bee Rescue folks here in Central Texas – they are a pretty good resource . A non profit group very active here – they might be able to put you in contact with a local apiarist .

  11. Fred says:

    Any sailboat update? I remember that yacht listing from a year back. Last week’s 15 below weather definitely put me in the mood to get back to a warmer climate.

  12. r whitman says:

    Six months old. Contracts have probably been awarded, shipped and dispersed to the ultimate destination by now. Could be that contract changes have been issued by now to increase the amount.

  13. Charles says:

    Tyler,
    My apologies to the Bard but I cannot resist.
    To bee or not to bee?
    Regards,

  14. Basilisk says:

    Thanks for that, Neil. More remedial reading.

  15. dan bradburd says:

    Neil,
    I agree with her view. I have found that mixing both journalism and locally produced fiction with scholarly works helps my students understand the local terrain–as does good ethnography.

  16. different clue says:

    I remember reading somewhere that he de-occupied Gaza unilaterally with zero consultation with the PNA depsite its pleadings and warnings to leave mazimum political chaos and vacuum behind. He hoped Hamas would take over Gaza and the deep geographic and political split between Hamas and the PNA would render Palestine too divided and internally gridlocked to pursue independence successfully.

  17. different clue says:

    Here is an article from The American Conservative about how Boeing’s leadership has spent the last few decades transferring its plane-making technology knowledge and wisdom to Japanese aerospace companies. The author suspects Boeing’s executives will end up turning Boeing into a mere retailer and semi-assembler of Japanese (and other) aerospace products. If the author’s concerns are well placed, why would the Boeing leadership do such a thing?
    http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/boeing-goes-to-pieces/

  18. SAC Brat says:

    Good article but the comments section have a lot of folks arguing based on beliefs. They will be very unhappy when they find out Airbus doesn’t believe in magic beans like American companies do. My experience has been that outsourcing only saves money on the Powerpoint presentations, and leads to hideous quality feedback loops to deal with, like what has been experience with the 787 program.

  19. different clue says:

    I was hoping the article would be good. It “seemed” good but I lacked the background to know for sure. Maybe I will go back and read their comments to see what a pack of belief-based arguments looks like.

  20. different clue says:

    After thinking further, I think the article addressed Boeing’s 787 failure only slightly. I think the article’s main concern was that Japan itself could do a lot of these things right, and will do more and more right, and that Boeing is relentlessly giving all its best and most secret thingmaking technology to Japan. Boeing is systematically packing itself into crates and shipping itself to Japan. The article writer fears there will be nothing left of Boeing in America but the nameplate and some Mexican maquiladora-style final assembly plants. If I have understood the article correctly, this would seem to be a bigger danger than Boeing suffering bad outcomes from badly made parts and subassemblies from outsourced-to suppliers. Airbus, by contrast, seems to be placing its own survival and national duty to its European home countries first.
    Of course I stand correctible if I got the article wrong.

  21. Jane says:

    Christie’s administration rolled the dice with respect to the lives of others. The decision to cast the dice is what is beyond the pale, not how the dice fell.

  22. Walrus says:

    With respect, the article is twaddle. I’ve been involved in some oF these deals myself. The fact is that the development costs of new aircraft and engines are simply,notorious huge even for Boeing. The current practice is that up to Ten partners engage in a project and each pays a chunk of the development costs in exchange for the right to be sole provider to Boeing(or say GE) of that section of engine or aircraft for the life of the design. The development is still done by a Boeing or GE who have (and do not transfer) the critical know how. The production know how on the other hand will generally reside with the component manufacturer which is as it should be and in any case all such contracts give access to that IP to a Boeing if they ask for it.
    For example, double cut plunge grinding of turbine blade roots was developed here in Melbourne which doubled production rates and accuracy for critical turbine blades. GE made us give it all to them for nothing under an offset contract.

  23. Maureen Lang says:

    An excellent series chock full of photos & contemporary accounts of the times.
    From my personal point of view, worth it for the internal music links alone. Thanks for posting your link to it.

  24. Tyler says:

    No sweat, I’m just looking for someone to shoot the breeze with about my newest hobby and to compare notes with.

  25. Tyler says:

    I’m honestly surprised I didn’t think of it first.
    I don’t think I’ll have any pictures of cute baby bees for you sad to say.

  26. Alba Etie says:

    Yes – like the batteries that keep melting – those 787 batteries IIRC are made by Japanese OEM..

  27. Allen Thomson says:

    It does seem to be a fair amount of stuff. Can anybody more familiar with such matters than I estimate how many AK-47-weilding fighters the two solicitations correspond to?
    Also, what, if any, other weapons than Makarov pistols use 9x18mm ammunition?
    BTW & FWIW, the Army was setting up a Basic Ordering Agreement for such acquisitions back in March of 2012:
    10–Foreign/Non-Standard Weapons, Accessories, and Parts
    Solicitation Number: W15QKN-12-X-C003

  28. Tyler says:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9%C3%9718mm_Makarov
    There’s a list of pistols and sub-guns, mostly of the Eastern Bloc variety down at the bottom.
    As far as your first questions, add the two numbers together and divide by 30, and you get 80000. 30 is the number of rounds in an AK magazine, and let’s say each fighter gets 7. That’s going to equate to about 12,142 fighters with 7 magazines, assuming all the ball is used for warfare. If your reduce the number of fighters, they get more magazines, etc.

  29. Tyler says:

    Looks like Fast and Furious was simply a front so that the cartels could be armed by the FedGov.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/the-us-government-and-the-sinaloa-cartel-2014-1
    We don’t have enough M4s for the station but the government can send them to the Sinaloas to use against us. Lovely.

  30. Fred says:

    Yes, quite the scandle on that one.

  31. SAC Brat says:

    I think you are underestimating American business stupidity. The Boeing management is fully capable of selling the family cow for pennies and labeling it a success. Look how they fumbled the tanker contracts.
    For the 787 faults, the batteries are small stuff compared with having to buy one of your main suppliers (Vought) because they couldn’t deliver sub-assemblies.
    http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ABPub/2011/02/04/2014130646.pdf
    http://bus545-boeing.wikispaces.com/file/view/Boeing+787+Case.pdf
    An aside to the topic, I always scratched my head over Boeing’s decision to use CAD software from a French company to design the 787 program with.

  32. The Twisted Genius says:

    Tyler,
    It would be better to think of this as 12,142 ammunition basic loads (ABL) rather than 12,142 fighters. I’m sure there are tables somewhere to calculate a required supply rate for both training and sustained operations we could use to get a better idea of how many fighters this would sustain and for how long. Just as a SWAG, I would think this amount of ammo would sustain a six month MTT to train a battalion/regiment of light infantry.
    That is a lot of Makarov ammo. There are a few machine pistols that use it. I remember using the Polish RAK. Kind of an oddity similar to the Skorpion. I think the Russians have a fairly modern submachine gun used heavily by the FSB using this round.

  33. Tyler says:

    Yes, you’re correct on the way to view the information. The benefits of going through Robin Sage, I imagine. 😉
    A lot of the older model subguns use Tokarev 7.62, which is pretty much impossible to find, (at least last time I checked) so taking the 9X18 tack wouldn’t be surprising. I imagine you’re going to get a lot more utility out of it if you use it for subguns versus equipping everyone with a six shot Makarov. Also, a lot of those Eastern Bloc subguns are incredibly useful and rugged for their price versus looking at H&Ks pricey offerings.

  34. The beaver says:

    Trouble in paradise in the US-Israel union:
    “The US has condemned as “offensive” reported comments by Israel’s defence minister about Secretary of State John Kerry’s Middle East peace proposals.
    State Department spokeswoman Jen Psaki said the alleged comments by Moshe Yaalon were “inappropriate” given America’s support to Israel’s security.
    It was a rare rebuke to America’s ally.”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-25735532

  35. Babak Makkinejad says:

    That has been going on for almost 25 years and it was the condition of doing business with Japan, and later, with China.
    Japan and China forced “local content” down Boeing’s throat.
    It was a concern at that time among Boeing executives but I doubt that it is now – after all the Japanese have had 25 years….

  36. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I hope that there is a God and a Hell and he would spend a fair amount of time there – Ameen.

  37. Babak Makkinejad says:

    It is fine but I think she and others like her need to study US as well.

  38. walrus says:

    I think Boeing management took a turn for the worse after the bought McDonnell Douglas and moved head office to St Louis. What appears to have happened is a “reverse takeover” of Boeing management by senior McDonnell people – the same idiots who ran that company into the ground.
    These people then bet the farm on an all carbon airliner with predictable results. My own experience of Boeing management in Seattle was that they were very good and polite listeners to their customers and very tactful and smart while their McDonnell Douglas colleagues were smart asses who kept telling everyone how good they were because they built the DC-3. However that’s just me.
    I wouldn’t call American businessmen stupid, however a lot of them only have one business strategy: lobby government to change the laws to make them more money.

  39. Charles says:

    Fred,
    Thanks. I liked the music but we have not seen the movie. We will put it on our list.
    Regards,

  40. Charles says:

    Tyler,
    Do you live in an area where colony collapse disorder has been a problem? Bees are vital to our food chain. If whatever is attacking them is not controlled we are all in for some serious trouble.
    Good luck with your colony and enjoy the honey.
    Regards,

  41. Did Governor Christie’s speech this PM save him?

  42. Allen Thomson says:

    > Can anybody more familiar with such matters than I estimate how many AK-47-weilding fighters the two solicitations correspond to?
    I should say that, while I think the idea that the solicitations are meant to arm people involved in current conflicts is the most interesting one, there’s at least one other hypothesis that seems plausible. That being that the purchases are simply for replenishment of inventory that got depleted post-911:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/13/world/13foggo.html
    “Within weeks, he [Kyle D. Foggo, a CIA logistics wizard] emptied the C.I.A.’s stockpile of AK-47s and ammunition at a Midwest depot.”
    I’m somewhat persuaded that “a Midwest depot” is an euphemism for the Camp Stanley mentioned in the ammunition solicitation.

  43. turcopolier says:

    WRC
    No, and it won’t take long for this to unravel. Whoever “sings” first will get the best plea bargain. pl

  44. Edward Amame says:

    There’s an article by Ezra Klein on the WaPo Wonkblog called, “What liberals get wrong about single payer”. Klein basically argues that “it’s health-care providers — not insurers — who have too much power in the U.S. system…the dirty truth about American health care is that it costs more not because insurers are so powerful, but because they’re so weak.”
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/13/what-liberals-get-wrong-about-single-payer/
    I thought it was interesting.

  45. R says:

    About the time of NAFTA and their merger with the bankrupt St Louis corporation .Boeing came up with a vision that they thought fit the New World Order. They would be a design company that outsourced all their production.
    SAC Brat…. I spent several years talking to engineers that had to deal with sub-par production problems. They seemed sure that the costs out weighed any value from foriegn production. They couldn’t figure out how the books were being cooked to hide the costs.

  46. R says:

    My understanding was that until the merger, Boeing had a general policy of promoting from within. So management was made up of engineers and individuals with experience producing airplanes.
    After the merger, promotion within stopped,because they were Management heavy with people from St Louis.
    There were a lot people walking around wondering how a group of people that had bankrupted their own company were now telling them how to operate .
    The vision thing was the thinking behind the all carbon airliner.

  47. Fred says:

    It is actually a very good movie. I think you’ll like it. There is some very good music on the sound track, too.

  48. Fred says:

    A very good idea to view the info. So ammo doesn’t just show up unannounced when you issue a requisition; plus a battalion of infantry in normal training is going to go through what on the surface looks like one heck of allot of ammo?

  49. Fred says:

    Just wonderful. This will make you feel even better about the FBI under its current leadership.
    http://politicalblindspot.com/he-exposed-steubenville-now-what/

  50. Tyler says:

    My understanding is that varroa mites are behind CCD and the Italian breed that Americans have come to prefer over the years gets chewed up by them. Looking around it seems that beekeepers are getting a handle on things through mite treatments, preventative defenses, and cross breeding Italian queens that have proven resistant to make varroa resistant breeds, as well as crossing Carniolans with Italians or outright switching breeds.
    In the southwest the biggest thing is Africanized honey bees, aka killer bees. I had to sign a disclaimer saying that I understood that there’s always a possibility that my bees may be Africanized OR they may become such in the future.

  51. Tyler says:

    From the school of thought that brought you “Education is a human right!” and “Immigration is a human right!” as well as “A job is a human right!” we now have “Health care is a human right!”
    You guys are your own best argument against leftist dogma the more you twist yourselves into pretzels to try and pretend Obama isn’t an effete, ineffective out of his depth executive.

  52. no one says:

    Yes Edward, it is the providers who drive the cost of health care and healthcare insurance. The insurance companies reign in the cost. They develop networks, negotiate contracts within the networks, process claims, case manage, etc. All cost savers and all things the government would have to do as well if we had single payer. For this, the insurance companies take a little profit and pay some admin. costs. If you could get the government to do all that the HCI companies do (highly dubious proposition) less the profit, your premiums would be only a few bucks less each month. A $1,000/month premium might drop to $920 – $950/month. Is that making insurance/health care affordable?
    It is the unwashed bolshie rabble that targets the HCI companies, executive salaries and all of that. Repeat this until it sinks in: Health care insurance costs a lot because health care services cost a lot – and that is on the doctors and hospitals and pharmas. And it is on the great unwashed who grow obese and sedentary and then want no expense spared when their systems inevitably start failing.

  53. Alba Etie says:

    They have a community board I think ..

  54. Alba Etie says:

    Its unfortunate that the Seattle Boeing union workers had to give in on pension disbursements to keep their jobs . That is a skilled workforce and some day we may need to make a bunch of air frames in a hurry ..

  55. Alba Etie says:

    So is it a meme that the HCI CEO’s make better then a million dollars per year in salary ?

  56. Alba Etie says:

    My money would be on Bridget Anne Kelly

  57. Babak Makkinejad says:

    You are not looking at it the right way; is the United States – or any other country for that matter – one Team or not?
    If your answer is that US (population) does not constitute a team, then on what basis does this country or any other exists?
    And if the United States is a Team, then why deny some people health care and not others?
    Perhaps you prefer the situation in China whereby people borrow money from another and lend money to one another to pay for health care (in the absence of health insurance coverage)?
    Or do you prefer vast tracks of Africa in which people simply & obligingly just die – from preventable causes – and thus conform to the fantasy social dispensation that you seem to be advocating?

  58. Edward Amame says:

    Klein’s argument is that US Health care insurance costs a lot because health care services (doctors and hospitals and pharmas) charge a lot — and that’s because private insurance companies have weak negotiating positions. That’s why some of us who prefer single payer because Medicare can set rates. Klein suggest that one way of keeping costs down under Obamacare without a public option is to allow insurance companies to negotiate collectively.

  59. different clue says:

    What percent of the premium money paid into insurance companies is paid onward to health care providers and costs? What percent is retained by the insurance companies for insurance company purposes?
    As against . . what percent of the medicare tax money paid into medicare is paid onward to health care providers and costs? What percent is retained by medicare for medicare’s own internal uses and purposes?
    And how do those percentages measure for private American insurance companies as against Canada’s tax-funded single payer? Or the coverage system in Australia? etc?

  60. Edward Amame says:

    Not to be rude, but why don’t you research the answers to your questions? You might want to start by checking out Klein’s article if you haven’t already. The link’s in my first comment.

  61. Tyler says:

    Its hard to call the United States a “team” when the same big statists pushing for more health care are also pushing for more immigration into the country.
    You can have a lot of immigration, or you can have a decent national health system, but not both as the UK and the Nordic countries are quickly finding out.
    Your yanking on heartstrings aside, there’s always the question of who pays for the damn thing that always seems to cost much much more than originally quoted. We’re 17 trillion plus in debt – you tell me how we pay for health care to give to every Ofelia and Juan who cross the border, and every Patel and Chin who overstay their visa. Go on. I’m all ears.

  62. Edward Amame says:

    Another interesting article from Ezra Klein today about healthcare and it’s directly related to the other article of his that I linked to above. He presents an interesting argument against single payer by single payer supporter, Uwe Reinhardt (professor of political economy at Princeton). It’s about Congressional corruption. The key to a single-payer system is gov’t setting prices and will only work if that means *independent experts* setting those prices low. Reinhardt thinks that the health industry’s influence over Congress means prices would probably get set by industry lobbyists.
    BTW, I’m a single payer supporter.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2014/01/16/is-the-u-s-too-corrupt-for-single-payer-health-care/

  63. Neil Richardson says:

    Babak:
    I think Simons understands our political culture perfectly well as evidenced by her writings on foreign policy as well as civil-military relations. She’s simply discussing the pedagogy of regional studies for field grade officers who are in graduate schools.

  64. Neil Richardson says:

    To all:
    Frontline’s “Secret State of North Korea”
    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/secret-state-of-north-korea/

  65. Tyler says:

    EA,
    Or they charge a lot because medical school is expensive, as are certain treatments.

  66. no one says:

    AE,”So is it a meme that the HCI CEO’s make better then a million dollars per year in salary ? ”
    No. They do. A mere drop in the ocean. The salary isn’t significantly impacting your premium.
    EA, ”
    Klein’s argument is that US Health care insurance costs a lot because health care services (doctors and hospitals and pharmas) charge a lot ”
    Yes. He got that right.
    ” and that’s because private insurance companies have weak negotiating positions. ”
    Not so correct on that one. There are many physicians out there that will not accept Medicare and Medicaid patients b/c the reimbursements are too low for their tastes. Also, some commenters here seem unaware that a fairly large portion of Medicare is sold and administrated through private for profit companies. This is b/c the gov’t recognized that the private companies do it better.
    A little bit correct in that HCI companies do have to create networks and market to purchasers based partly on the nature of these networks. That is where providers have some power to push back. Of course, the single payer argument assumes that if the govt were in control, it would set a low price and providers would play ball as opposed to dropping out of the practice or moving to only accept out of pocket payers and supplemental insurance holders. Not a safe assumption, IMO.
    Just an anecdote. I have good insurance through my employer (who happens to be one of the big four insurance HC companies). I rarely see a doctor – maybe once every two years or so – and the doctor I saw last retired. So, last week I wanted to see a doctor about insomnia (it’s been pretty bad lately). All I wanted was a short course of a sleep aid to reboot my cycle. I cannot find a doctor in my area that will take my insurance and I ended up paying out of pocket. Being a curious insurance guy I asked the physician’s biller about the situation. I was told that the office considered working with my insurance, but the reimbursement was too low. My insurance would reimburse at $78 a visit, whereas the office charged me, out of pocket, $124. I didn’t even see a doctor. Rather a nurse practioner, and the whole visit lasted maybe 30 minutes. There were another two or three patients in at the same time and the NP was jumping from room to room. So doctors can’t afford to run a not too fancy little rural office at $156/hr X 3 = $468/hr? Now there is some serious greed.

  67. no one says:

    different clue – I did the math for you in a comment above. It depends on the company. A typical non for profit Blues plan will spend 90% to 92% of what comes in as premiums on paying medical claims. 8% or 9% goes to administrative costs and there is maybe around 1% residuals.
    the 90% is what is known in the biz as the medical loss ration (MLR).
    A for profit company will have a lower MLR ratio with the difference going to profit. However, the for profit company is likely to have premiums that are equal or lower than a given Blue’s comparable product. So the for profits do some work, create some value and make some profit. That is the way free markets works.

  68. Babak Makkinejad says:

    The $ 17 trillion of debt was not caused by health care in US.
    And the Juan & Ofelia are doing useful work in US that no one wants to do – sort of like Afghan illegal immigrants in Iran without whom construction work in Iran would come to a stand-still.

  69. Fred says:

    “…doing useful work in US that no one wants to do …”
    This is not completely correct. US citizens are demanding a higher wage for this work, therefore employers seek out immigrants who are willing to work for less. That includes the risk of deportation if caught. This gives employers significant leverage over thier workforce.

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