Poor Obama! It is so clear that this is Islamic terrorism.


Just listened to BHO speaking on the Orlando gay massacre.   He would so love to make this a gun law issue, but it is just so  difficult given the facts known so far:

  1. Sunni Muslim  who called 911 to renew his pledge of allegiance to IS and his Caliph Ibrahim DURING the attack.
  2. This second generation US citizen had no criminal record
  3. As a licensed security guard for a major security company this man was allowed to buy firearms with less than the background checks required of ordinary Americans (like me)
  4. He evidently bought guns legally.
  5. Media surrogates are a bit confused by all this.  Almost all of them know nothing of firearms and are unqualified to discuss them.  They sound ridiculous. 
  6. It is Ramadan and Islam universally condemns homosexuality.  IS kills them when they find them.
  7. In the EU possession of an AK-47 is illegal.  They still get them on the Black Market.  There are several million AR-15 variants legally in civilian hands in the US. 
  8. It is once again falsely stated that magazine size would make a difference.  Wrong!  I am old and can make a magazine change in an AR-15 in less than five seconds.
  9. The ignorant, like Malcolm Vance insist that Islam does not permit killings like this.  He is wrong.  As I have often stated Islam has NO CENTRAL AUTHORITY.  Because of that Islam is whatever some group of Muslims agree that it is.  Think IS.  pl

Poor Obama!  Surely this can be twisted into a gun control sermon!  Surely!  pl

Addendum #1.  Omar went to Saudi Arabia for pilgrimage and also to the UAE.  What was he doing in the UAE?

Addendum #2. The man's father is a long time supporter of the Taliban in his native Afghanistan.

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265 Responses to Poor Obama! It is so clear that this is Islamic terrorism.

  1. Tyler says:

    Dear The Gays:
    Trump does not care what happens in your bedroom. Meanwhile Hillary wants to import a gorillion violent foreigners who are hunky dory with tossing you off a building or stoning you to death.
    Choose wisely.

  2. Farmer Don says:

    In the news:
    Demonstrators have formed a human chain near a US air base in western Germany to protest against lethal drone strikes.
    The demonstration was organized by the alliance “Stop Ramstein – No Drone War”, which says the Ramstein base relays information between operators in the US and unmanned drone aircraft on missions over Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Yemen, Syria and other places.
    Organizers said that 5 to 7 thousand people took part in the chain near the Ramstein Air Base, the principal US Air Force facility in Europe, on a rainy Saturday.

  3. Tab says:

    Agreed 100%. I think Trump’s a realist in both domestic and foreign policy. From everything I read– including from comments from his fellow billionaire titans– I think Trump’s approach will Joe-six-pack (i.e., non-idiological) libertarianism. I firmly believe Hillary intends “bold” (radical) domestic and foreign policy and actions that will be disastrous to social and global order. And in the U.S. will further marginalize white males (IMHO, the most valuable asset to any country).

  4. kao_hsien_chih says:

    This is sure to throw a big monkey wrench into the intersectionalist, multiculturalist crowd. You cannot force the lamb and the lion to lie side by side because you insist on seeing that world, at least not without a major backlash. It’s not a matter with the lamb or the lion–they are perfectly justified in not wanting to lie next to each other for their reasons. It’s not the lion or the lamb that deserves the blame if things go wrong, but those who insist on remaining willfully blind to those reasons.
    Tyler is right: we should see a big surge in support for Trump from many unlikely quarters. A lot of people, including “minorities” of various kinds, don’t want to play the multiculturalist game at the risk of their life, limb, and property.

  5. mbrenner says:

    So far, we have no evidence that this guy had any affiliation with Islamist groups – much less ISIS – or that he was motivated by religious convictions of any kind. the second-hand FBI report is that they twice checked this out some time ago and came up with nothing. As to the declaration of allegiance to ISIS during the attack – shouldn’t we consider that this most likely is a last desperate claim to some sort of identity and value from a mentally ill man who has just committed an act of violence against anonymous victims? It is more emotionally gratifying to suddenly pronounce himself an Islamist agent than to proclaim the unpalatable truth: I am a mental mess, a non-entity hasn’t the slightest idea idea why I did such a crazy thing!! I know of no killer anywhere who ever has made that statement despite it’s being very close to the truth.
    As for Obama, and other “leaders,” I am more distressed by the rush to pronounce this an act of “terrorism.” I find that to be dishonest on two counts. First, what he really means by the phrase is that this was a mass killing by a Muslim against non- Muslims. Other than that, the decision to use the phrase has no purpose since any act of this sort is terrifying. Second, as noted, the ascription of an Islamist motivation has no evidential basis at this point.
    Personally, I am sick of these guys going out of their way to stir the emotional pot in order to exalt their own role as President, Governor, or whatever.

  6. Nana2007 says:

    Who knows anything about G4S- the security firm Mateen worked for?

  7. Kooshy says:

    “Man with weapons and explosives arrested, was going to L.A. gay pride parade, police say”
    “Colonel, FYI, this guy was cut just a few blocks away from my lotus eating neck of the woods office. Report doesn’t say (yet) if he was another jehadi.

  8. jerseycityjoan says:

    I will not wade into the gun control aspect of this. But I will share this simultaneously unbelievably laughable but of course entirely unfunny account of Seddique Mateen, the killer’s father, that I just saw at the Washington Post.
    Mateen junior’s first wife says he beat her up and that she saved by her parents from a terrible marriage. God knows what else we’ll be hearing about this crew in the days ahead.
    “Orlando suspect’s father hosted a TV show and now pretends to be Afghanistan’s president”
    “The father of Omar Mateen, identified by police as the man behind the carnage at an Orlando nightclub early Sunday morning, is an Afghan man who holds strong political views, including support for the Afghan Taliban. In a video he posted on Saturday, he appears to be portraying himself as the president of Afghanistan.

    Just hours before the Orlando shooting, Seddique Mateen posted a video on a Facebook page called Provisional Government of Afghanistan — Seddique Mateen. In it, he seems to be pretending to be Afghanistan’s president, and orders the arrest of an array of Afghan political figures.
    “I order national army, national police and intelligence department to immediately imprison Karzai, Ashraf Ghani, Zalmay Khalilzad, Atmar, and Sayyaf. They are against our countrymen, and against our homeland,” he says, while dressed in army fatigues.
    The most recent video on Mateen’s YouTube channel shows him declaring his candidacy for the Afghan presidency. The timing of the video is strange, as it came a year after presidential elections were held in Afghanistan. …”

  9. Prem says:

    “Islam is whatever some group of Muslims”
    Nail on the head. Theological arguments about what constitutes “true Islam” are completely moot in this context. The only thing that matters is what people believe.
    There are millions of good people who follow that religion, but the unfortunate reality is that Muslim minorities require extensive policing wherever they exist. If as a country you don’t have one, importing one is a bad mistake.

  10. Dubhaltach says:

    WRT to your fifth point. Yes they sound ridiculuous to _you_. And they sound ridiculuous to … well, pretty much anyone who knows a bit about the topic … but they don’t give a damn because they don’t sound ridiculuous to the overwhelming majority of people who read them and rely on them for information and commentary. God help us, they sound authoritative to their target audience and why spoil the (lucrative) habit of a lifetime?
    Upton Sinclair said it very pithily: “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it” and seems to me that that is what you’re faced with. How you go about fixing that I freely admit I haven’t a clue as it seems to me to be a profitable species of invincible ignorance.
    In the meantime may God have mercy on the souls of those killed, and bring succour to those wounded and to the bereaved.

  11. Jack says:

    Trump needs to make the point you make. Its not the government’s business what happens between consenting adults in their bedroom among many other things they get involved in. While ban the guns rhetoric will be in full swing with the Borg Queen the real issue of death in gun free zones will not get much airing.

  12. Will Reks says:

    I think you have a valid point there, minus the usual hyperbole. We could stop all immigration tomorrow and it wouldn’t change the fact that the terrorist was not a foreigner but a born US citizen.
    Trump cannot guarantee security to anyone, let alone The Gays, considering we have a few million Muslims in the United States who were either born here or immigrated here legally.

  13. ISL says:

    Dear Colonel,
    Either this former FBI got lucky on picking Florida, or it seems the call for a lone wolf attack was heard. Note, date is June 8.
    and more recently,

  14. walrus says:

    I predict it’s going to be twisted into an assault rifle issue unfortunately.

  15. James Loughton says:

    Uh oh. Another incidence of “danceplace violence”, like that little incident of “workplace violence” down at Fort Hood in which Maj. Nidal Hassan killed 13 and injured another 30 soldiers.
    Obama and his lackeys calling that workplace violence was despicable. One of those killed was a friend of mine, Michael Cahill, who was a reservist and physicians assistant. Mike was shot while trying to attack Hassan with a chair.

  16. Fred says:

    It looks like the Bataclan was a template for the attack. The cowardice in our political leadership which continues to refuse to recognize reality in its religous adherence to the PC narrative is a disgrace. Many of my friends still working for politicians started the anti-gun rant even before the blood dried. Shameful. Apparently he was interviewed by the FBI previously but ……

  17. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Farmer Don 12 June 2016 at 03:51 PM
    How is this even remotely relevant to the topic at hand?

  18. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Nana2007 12 June 2016 at 04:21 PM
    Well you could start with the fact that they’re the largest security firm in the world and start doing some research from there on sites like wikipedia and google

  19. Will Reks says:

    So I’ve noticed that European leaders are far more likely to use the phrase “Islamic terrorism” than either Obama or Bush before him. From reading the comments here people seem to think this is a matter of political correctness that would actually make a difference. I don’t think HRC will have the same reservations to using this phase.
    Ultimately, I think Americans would get behind a cessation of immigration quicker than a ban on guns or even the type of regulation that might have prevented Mateen from purchasing his weapons. This is because there is no constitutional question as to the former.
    What policy is going to prevent homegrown terror attacks?

  20. raven says:

    Trump: I’m Getting So Much ‘Congrats for Being Right’ on Terrorism After Orlando http://bit.ly/28uVL2N pic.twitter.com/2nIU4j1vQa
    1:18 PM – 12 Jun 2016

  21. BabelFish says:

    I went to a movie this afternoon, with my wife. As I have done for some time know, I sat and wondered WTF I would do if some animal came in and started shooting. I can go a lot of places in my mind regarding all the issues but it comes down to sanity. IMO, sanity says our governments and agencies have to be our shield and protection. When the highest elected official will not utter the words that accurately describe this and other incidents, we have arrived at his single biggest failure. He has failed to effectively lead the effort to keep us safe.

  22. Anonymous says:

    Fred is right. Bibi must be already throwing elbows for a place in the first row in the memorial parade. Tump, of course, will be banned from attending.
    James Loughton, thats Viodance. A new fashion combining muslim explosive rithm with gay moving vibrancy.
    Pardon me for being insensitive. I no longer think ultrage suffices as surrogate for political action.

  23. Nana2007 says:

    That wasn’t my question. Thanks nonetheless.

  24. MartinJ says:

    I wouldn’t be at all surprised to learn that this murderer was himself gay.
    So disgusted with his unnatural feelings that perverted the laws of his religion that he felt compelled to act against them. Killing the infidel and at once absolving himself in the eyes of God from his personal deviances.
    I have heard first hand a number of times where individuals have joined AQ as an escape route out from such “feelings” or, perhaps, as a cover for them.

  25. kao_hsien_chih says:

    Trump’s tweet was tasteless, but ultimately right. The truth is that there really is a terrorist threat that is grounded in the variant of Islam accepted by many. Instead of accepting that there is an Islamic terrorism threat (notice that I said “an” Islamic terrorism, not “the”), the media and political class go into denial mode, with the “Islam is religion of peace” canard. Personally, I think that is far worse than just accepting that there are a very large number of Muslims who are indeed out to do us infidels harm, even if they might be only a minority of the whole. People are not dumb: they see that many Muslims are not peaceful and indeed justify their violence in the name of faith and religion. Surely, it would make for a more honest debate to recognize the reality that, yes, there is a sizable minority, numbering millions or even tens of millions (out of billions) of Muslims who do want to do us harm, explicitly for “religious” reasons? I think the American public is clear-headed enough to see this.

  26. Tyler says:

    Well let’s not do anything because we can’t stop 100% of everything.
    Do you ever apply this logic to welfare or other liberal shibboleth?
    He was a child of refugees.how about we stop importing violent 3rd World savages for a start en masse? How about we start kicking back LAPRs?
    Trump has better plans than double down on failure, which is all Hillary is offering us more of.

  27. Farmer Don says:

    The topic at hand is one of 50 ordinary people with no reason to be killed violently loosing their lives.
    The protest in Germany is about many more ordinary BROWN NON-AMERICANS with no reason to be killed violently loosing their lives.
    Does this not at least make you think?

  28. Tyler says:

    Dude swore alliance to IS when he called 911. Was on the FBI surveillance list.
    Not sure what else you’re going to need.

  29. S Ct says:

    50 dead and 53 wounded sounds like a lot for one gunman. 14 LEOs exchanged gunfire. I pray no one died in friendly fire of the Orlando PD.

  30. VietnamVet says:

    Omar Mateen worked for the leading global security firm G4S. What won’t be discussed is the privatization of the military and security. Nor, contractors returning home from combat zones with no benefits or medical care. The blowback from the endless drone wars will be ignored. A first generation Afghan Florida security guard “ran amok”. This is the new multicultural norm.

  31. robt willmann says:

    Michael Brenner,
    I agree that the “rush to judgment” problem is a real one. It is astonishing how in the last several years a complex homicide with an extensive and complicated crime scene is hyped to the public through the media as being “solved” within not very many minutes after its occurrence, or within only a few hours. The conclusion is announced faster than it takes to sort out the average car wreck. At the speed of light: gunshot residue tests, ballistics tests, bullet trajectories, analysis of bullet types and ammunition shell casings, DNA tests and results, analysis of evidence on the clothing of victims and suspects, blood spatter evaluation, analysis of surveillance camera footage from the surrounding area, witness interviews, etc. etc. are all completed. Autopsy reports? No need to wait. They used to be — and should be — public records.
    This is not to say that an early opinion cannot turn out to be correct. But it also might not be, in whole or in part.
    And the politicians pontificating to the cameras are indeed annoying.

  32. mbrenner says:

    Severe mental illness characteristically has some genetic root

  33. Freudenschade says:

    These periodic (once every two weeks on average by some accounts) mass shootings are not avoidable short of repealing the second amendment and/or a much stronger hand by the state in regulating firearms. Otherwise, it’s something we must simply accept as a risk. In truth, you are more likely to die in a traffic accident driving to a movie theatre than being killed in a mass shooting at that movie theatre.

  34. mbrenner says:

    Whoever they are, it is obvious they do not screen the employees they arm for mental problems. That may also be true of the outfits with whom we contract to send mercenaries to Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Their conduct there suggests an element of emotional instability among many of them. By the way, our 10,000 troop contingent in Afghanistan today is matched by an equal number of mercenaries; same in Iraq. I have yet to see this mentioned in any MSM account of U.S. force levels.

  35. StoneHouse says:

    You mean semiautomatic rifle, or modern sporting rifle, of course. Language control is thought control so let’s be on our toes. ;~p
    Preserving one’s rights as a citizen of a Republic means paying attention to that kind of detail now and again (every day in every little way).
    Not meant in any way to cast aspersions at you, Walrus. Just what your post made me think about.
    And, yes, it was very weird listening to BHO on National Propaganda Radio this afternoon.. and my, how they spun and gushed and worshiped. I almost couldn’t do it, but I was curious. It was mercifully short anyway, and at least he didn’t weep.

  36. Les says:

    It sounds like his father is delusional, attacking Patkistan’s ISI while espousing support for the Afghan Taliban. It does get confusing at times since Pakistan’s ISI provides support for the Afghanistan Taliban while the government views the Pakistan Taliban as a terrorist threat.

  37. ked says:

    But are those congrats enough to make him less insecure?

  38. Out of all the reactions by political figures to this attack, I like that of Bernie Sanders the best. Earlier in the day, he expressed horror, disgust and sadness. He said it could be a terrorist attack, a hate crime against gays, or the act of a sick person. He didn’t jump to a conclusion. By 10:00 pm, he said, “From what is now known, this was a terrorist act by an ISIS sympathizer. That despicable and barbaric organization must be destroyed.” I couldn’t agree with him more. It not the fault of all of Islam, nor of firearms in general. Sure this SOB was a whack job inspired by a warped ideology. So was that SOB in Charleston. The difference was those who inspired the events in Charleston did not embrace that heinous act. The Islamic State proudly embraced the Orlando massacre. So be it. As Bernie said, let’s destroy the IS and all those allied with that despicable organization.

  39. Castellio says:

    How can you not see the relevance?

  40. elaine says:

    The photos of the terrorist, Omar Mateen, appear to be selfies, most even
    show him holding the camera phone. Are these photos shot with a mirror or is
    another party taking the photo? I think one was of him in a car, is he using a
    second camera? Please forgive me if my question sounds stupid.

  41. kooshy says:

    I can’t agree more, IMO, if the west is serious, to destroy this SOBs, they most seriously go after the money source, if they want to destroy the ideology that they themselves awakened, they need to dry up all the sources that is founding this ideology. USSR is gone, but the ideology that was suppose to confront it is still indiscriminately killing Communist, westerners and muslims alike.

  42. Tyler says:

    That’s funny, because I’m pretty sure it was the same Bernie Sanders who was saying that you can buy automatic weapons over the counter, and that we should ban them all. Its a safe assumption he thinks the AR used was fully auto.

  43. Tyler says:

    This might have had some zing if:
    – your team wasn’t trying to import millions more like Omar
    – Omar wasn’t a registered Democrat
    – we get to see the magic of identity politics where when a Muslim kills gays, it’s still YT’s fault according to President Gay Urkel.

  44. Tyler says:

    Only in America can a Christian baker refusing to bake a cake or stating a man in a dress isn’t allowed to use the woman’s restroom become a cause for national concern about what beliefs are right.
    However when a Muslim mows down 50 people in a gay bar, well we shouldn’t mention the religion.
    THIS is what our ancestors fought and bled for right there, I imagine.

  45. johnf says:

    They are one of those huge conglomerates who have edged their way into the privatised public services and are given amazingly generous contracts by politicians who later take up extremely lucrative posts on their boards.
    Having been given the security contract for the London Olympics, they were so incompetent that they were sacked a couple of weeks before the Games and the British Army was brought in (at great public expense).

  46. Balint Somkuti says:

    “let’s destroy the IS and all those allied with that despicable organization.”
    With all due respect sir, knowing the long list of their supporters do you think it will be carried out?

  47. Henshaw says:

    Juan Cole provides some interesting insights- http://www.juancole.com/2016/06/rightwing-homophobia-terrorism.html
    It’s early days, but there appear to be some parallels with the man involved in the Lindt Cafe siege in Sydney in December 2014, in the areas of mental instability, lack of priority by monitoring authorities in the years prior to the incident, and last minute claiming of a Da’esh connection.

  48. TonyL says:

    “white males (IMHO, the most valuable asset to any country).”
    Pardon me while I stop laughing and clean my computer screen 😉

  49. JLCG says:

    The American ruling class is in a bind. By ruling class here I mean the set of minds that conceived a state above the religious fray. The various Christian sects might perennially argue about theological subtleties but the American State took care of presenting them , as in reality were, polemics that did not threaten the State. However, with Islam, a power has developed that is a real threat to American hegemony. I may seem to be exaggerating but the aim of Islam is to unify the religious and the sacred. Caesar as God and vice versa. The American elite has not yet found a satisfactory solution to this perplexity. To acknowledge that there is a religious movement that threatens the stability of the State is to break away from the principle of separation of Church and State. For the first time a church has to be acknowledged as the Other, the enemy, and once that is done every aspect of American governance is threatened. At this time the problems are said to be psychological or singularities. The Other must not be acknowledged to exist. That is a difficult way to approach a problem.

  50. jonst says:

    and that murderer is still alive!!?

  51. turcopolier says:

    What do you mean by “mercenaries?” Logistical contractors? What is the source of your data? pl

  52. turcopolier says:

    Yes, Joan of Arc, Savonarola and the Buddha were probably mentally ill. The IS and Nusra head choppers all probably have some form of mental illness. pl

  53. raven says:

    Isn’t mentioned WHERE? What the hell are you talking about?

  54. turcopolier says:

    S Ct
    Some friendly fire casualties seem likely to me. pl

  55. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Farmer Don 12 June 2016 at 07:55 PM
    The topic at hand is the murder of fifty people and the wounding of tens more because they were either gay or were socialising with their gay friends in a gay club.
    Explain to me without engaging in virtue signalling the connection between a peaceful and legitimate political protest against American actions in Germany which the last time I looked was a foreign country from the American POV and a domestic American crime specifically the mass murder of gays by somebody who was either committing a hate crime or engaging in some form of Wahabbi inspired terrorism.

  56. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to johnf 13 June 2016 at 02:33 AM
    I’m well aware of who they are, and what they are, and of the LO debacle, and the Oakwood one, and the Mubenga killing, to say nothing of the Mangaung prison debacle. And no they weren’t sacked from the Olympics contract – more’s the pity, instead the British government decided to call in the British army to cover all those aspects of LO security which G4S had failed to cover. What the British government did NOT do was cancel the contract.
    My point was that the poster could have found all of that out for herself simply by making a simple search using the search engine of her choice.
    Had she chosen to do such a search a little bit of clicking would turn up quite a lot of further information.
    But then a lot of people like to be told things rather than find them out for themselves.

  57. turcopolier says:

    “we have no evidence that this guy had any affiliation with Islamist groups – much less ISIS – or that he was motivated by religious convictions of any kind” You must be talking about some other criminal. The Orlando police chief and FBI said in the TeeVee this AM that their hostage negotiators talked to this guy while he was in the night club. He repeatedly told them that he was a follower of Baghdadi and a soldier of the Islamic State. What more do you need to know about him. He was a crazy man. Yes. He was a religious crazy man. pl

  58. Ulenspiegel says:

    “How can you not see the relevance? ”
    Dou you believe that this kind of terror would stop if the USA ceases to use drones for killing suspects and inflicting too high collateral damage? Or is the drone issue only used as excuse?

  59. turcopolier says:

    “a peaceful and legitimate political protest against American actions in Germany” What “American actions?” pl

  60. SmoothieX12 says:

    Profiling is a foundation of any operative work. So, it is going to be, inevitably, either profile or… don’t, at one’s own peril.

  61. Nana2007 says:

    Thanks again Captain Obvious.

  62. Fred says:

    “Isn’t mentioned WHERE?”
    It was not mentioned in President Obama’s speech.

  63. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to turcopolier 13 June 2016 at 08:55 AM
    Colonel that was me in reply to Farmer Don. I worded it badly – sorry.
    The point I was making was that the protest in Germany to which he was alluding was a lawful and peaceful protest. Carried out in Germany by Germans against American actions – the use of drones, and the consequences of those actions.
    Germany’s a democracy and their citizens have the right to peacefully protest about all sorts of things (so long as they don’t do it by satirising Turkish politicians).
    I was puzzled by Farmer Don’s seeming conflation of peaceful and lawful political protests carried out by Germans in Germany against the American use of drones and the murder and wounding of civilians in America by an American domestic criminal.
    I think it’s important to emphasise that Mateen’s murders and assaults were civilian crimes carried out by a civilian and that he does not deserve being considered as any different or any better than any other mass murderer.
    In a way I don’t care what excuse this Omar Mateen character came up with for doing what did what he did. I don’t care whether it was a hate crime, a terrorist crime, or some combination of the two. The important point is that a civilian who commits mass murder is a civilian criminal. A ‘common criminal’ who has offended against the ordinary law of the land such a criminal is legally rather different from An American soldier who offends against the UCMJ. And such a criminal does not deserve to be glorified by being granted “political cover” – there’s no difference in my eyes between Mateen and Dylan Roof or a “black panther” or a “weatherman” they were all civilians committing civilian crimes against civilians.
    Calling them what they are and Subjecting them to the mockery, insult, and contempt they’ve earned might just be a deterrent to some other wannabe “lions”.
    Ulenspiegel’s question raises a separate point to mine but I for one would be very interested to see it answered.

  64. jld says:

    Even without mental illness proper epilepsy is enough to trigger religious delusions.
    Seems to have been the case with St Paul, I also read the same somewhere for Muhammad but don’t have the source at hand.

  65. rakesh wahi says:

    in five seconds a normal male can easily rush 5 yards.

  66. turcopolier says:

    rakesh wali
    “In five seconds…” reference what? I was talking about a magazine change. pl

  67. Nana2007 says:

    This is interesting:
    Multiple Suspects On The Loose In Orlando – Why The Media Blackout Of Eyewitness Accounts
    “One eyewitness to the attack, who was inside the nightclub when it happened, was giving his testimony to the attack, after being trapped inside the club, live on-air, to a mainstream news source when he was abruptly cut off after providing a crucial detail. The eyewitness said that during the attack “there was a guy there that was trying to […] hold the door closed so that we couldn’t exit,” as pointed out by an investigative reporter on YouTube”.
    I can’t vouch for the source. If Dubhaltach is around perhaps she can do some more digging.

  68. turcopolier says:

    If Germany wants to place conditions on the use of Ramstein air base this would be a good occasion for withdrawing US forces from all of Germany. pl

  69. Fred says:

    On a similar note the NYPD terror report was ordered removed from their website by court order.

  70. Fred says:

    The response to Charleston was the Governor of the State removing confederate symbols from the state house. There is not going to be a call to remove Islamic symbols from anything in Orlando. The political narrative conflates all usage of confederate symbols with the Charleston shooter; the narrative insists on no connection with Islam, radical or not, with this or other such killings.
    “As Bernie said, let’s destroy the IS and all those allied with that despicable organization.”
    That would mean stopping the funding for Al-Nursa and assorted Syrian unicorns. I’ll be happy to hear Hilary join in on that one.

  71. Fred says:

    why do you use the word “delusions”?

  72. Babak Makkinejad says:

    When I was an adolescent, my father advised me that it is best not to go out of my way and provoke others.

  73. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I do not think that anyone knows the answer for sure. But it is clear that a hornet’s nest has been agitated and will take a while to settle down.

  74. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Nana2007 13 June 2016 at 09:10 AM
    Yes, perhaps my last sentence was a bit obvious.

  75. kao_hsien_chih says:

    The trouble with profiling is that it is fundamentally a statistical problem, or it is (always) more accurate than random guessing but (invariably) wrong up to a point. It provides useful clues (the foundation to further analysis, if you will), but rarely enough to be the end all solution by itself to almost any problem. At least, in the American context, the public does not seem to handle this tradeoff very well–either they don’t buy into it at all or fall for it too completely. That’s a serious problem.

  76. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I think this will work to erode the secular character of the United States as she meddles more and more into the affairs of Muslim states. I recall a few speeches of Bush II and wondered to myself: “Why doesn’t this guy stich a cross to his lapel too?” As the war prolongs, the antagonists will be shorn of their more sophisticated veneers and become more and more elemental in their identities – in my opinion. Best is not to start.

  77. charly says:

    Uhm, catholic church until the ’60’s(+/-10 years) according to part of the American elite

  78. kao_hsien_chih says:

    The apparent willingness of Obama and his minions to assign blame on guns reminds me, in a way, of GWB and his gang with regards to weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
    The truth of what “really” drove Mateen over the edge is probably a mixture of several reasons, including religion, personal bigotry, mental instability, and possibly easy access to guns–although gun access is probably among the less important. However, among the Obama allies, it is also the easiest reason to hang their hats on (since so few of them care for gun rights)–the “bureaucratic” reasons, as Wolfowitz put it in a rare moment of honesty.
    Anyone can pick the “easy” answer that does little or no good. We should want “experts” in gov’t so that they can make “hard” decisions that actually do something useful. If we are not getting this, it’s all the more reason we need a “political revolution,” under whoever (as long as it’s not part of the old gang.)

  79. Babak Makkinejad says:

    The West cannot do anything against the scourge of Neo-Salafi/Wahabi/Jihadist terrorism. The best they can do and would likely find themselves in would be in a situation like Israel’s – a high-security fortress surrounded by hostile people.
    Consider that the Gulfies and Pakistan are the bosom buddies of the West; the West is committed to security of the Gulfies – even New Zealand has a boat in Persian Gulf defeinding Gulfies against Iran. Also that US, UK, France are all busy selling weapons to the Gulfies. And India is also a Friend of Gulfies.
    This is just on the political side of things.
    On the religious side, the West does not have the capability of defeating the ideas of Jihadists – intellectually and religiously they are incapable of doing so.
    In my opinion, only a concerted cooperative political and religious effort by the best that Muslim world can offer, i.e. the Islamic Republic of Iran and the Turkish Republic (the heart of the Seljuk Civilization) is capable – over a few generations – to dampen the flames of this jihadist scourge; both in the politico-military plane and in the arena of ideas.
    The West can play a supportive role, via her cheque-book, but the heavy lifting has to be performed by Muslims themselves; in my opinion.

  80. Larry Kart says:

    Omas was “a registered Democrat.” Good to see someone home in on the gist of the matter. Without doubt Mateen was motivated by Democratic Party positions and ideology.

  81. Will Reks says:

    Nice leap into ad hominems. You still make the same mistake of thinking everyone has the same positions on everything and people fit into these neat little boxes.
    I have no problem doing any of those things you mentioned if the American people want that. Just admit that you could get everything you want from Trump and there’s no way to prevent something like this from happening short of something out of Minority Report.

  82. rakesh wahi says:


  83. Babak Makkinejad says:

    It erodes civil liberties…

  84. Tyler says:

    Your Sunni brethern have issues with this lesson.

  85. Tyler says:

    This guy typed this on a device made by white males over a medium made by white males, likely in a country settled and created by white males.
    Of course he responds with womanly snark so I’m assuming another low t self hating white.

  86. raven says:

    Yea, that’s what Tyler said, right?

  87. Tyler says:

    Please, please, please, try to at least pretend you understand the context of the point before responding with your snark, and then crying to the good Colonel “Teacher teacher! He’s being mean again!” when I respond to your infantile reasoning.
    The context being that the media is running around trying somehow, someway, to blame this on Christian white male NRA members.
    This shooting seems designed to blow a hole through The Narrative, yet I still see the usual Big Brains removing all agency from Islam and assigning it to “guns!”

  88. SmoothieX12 says:

    It is not just statistical–it is cultural. Unless we have an empirical evidence of Russian Orthodox monks or those ever so violent Catholic nuns randomly mass killing people, cutting head off, taking hostages, blowing civilian shit up both on the ground and in the air, it seems inevitable and fully logical to concentrate on a specific group where probability for such violent acts grows exponentially. I am forced to repeat what today became almost a cliche but a very correct one: you may not be at the war with Sunni Islam, but it is sure as hell is at the war with you. Once that fundamental stratagem is internalized, then–it is the time for statistics, sample spaces, standard deviations etc. Everything starts with identifying a cause by symptoms–without it, no treatment is possible.

  89. Tyler says:

    As Fred said, no where in Obama’s speech.
    Same president who can lecture us that tranny restrooms are in Scripture.
    This dumb country I swear.

  90. Tyler says:

    Muslims are 1% of the nation’s population, but overwhelmingly represented in these types of attacks.
    Seems profiling would do some good vs. Strip searching Granny at the airport because “that’s not who we are”.

  91. Tyler says:

    How did French and Belgium gun laws stop Paris and Brussels from going down?

  92. SmoothieX12 says:

    Babak, while I agree with you that metaphysical counter for jihadism should come from within Islam itself, I really doubt that Turkey and Iran do have resources for dealing with it. What check book? Huge part of Wahabi ideology comes from Islam’s de facto defeat in civilizational struggle. We may talk whatever we want about West being decadent (which is true only partially) or it being wrong (and it is wrong and even criminal on many occasions), but in the end it is all about power and that is the only commodity which matters in history. Islam simply has none, other than getting violent and carrying despicable acts against civilians, both infidels and their own. Sunni Islam got Al-Ghazali, Christians got Tomas Aquinas. Compare the results.

  93. Peter says:

    No, there is not a mass shooting every two weeks, or even anywhere close to that number. Check your statistics again.

  94. Farmer Don says:

    “without engaging in virtue”?

  95. turcopolier says:

    Farmer Don
    I believe the correct quote was “without engaging in virtue SIGNALLING.” pl

  96. Babak,
    You make good points here. Western support of the Gulfies is at the heart of the problem. For us to wage a successful war against IS, we have to address its supporters and enablers… the Gulfies, Turkey and Israel. An embargo on all military aid and political support would be a good start. I would also like to see our much vaunted cyber warfare capabilities be used to drain the coffers of all those Gulf sheiks. I think we talked about that a while ago. On the religious side, yes, that is something the Muslim world will have to deal with.

  97. Larry Kart says:

    I understand and wholly agree with your account of the context — “that the media is running around trying somehow, someway, to blame this on Christian white male NRA members.” What I did not understand, and found bizarre, was your reference to Omar being a “registered Democrat,” as though you were suggesting that was causal in some way. Maybe we just have different senses of humor?

  98. SmoothieX12 says:

    No it doesn’t. Terrorism erodes civil liberties, identifying the main cause of terrorism and developing a comprehensive system of measures to counter it–actually defends civil liberties. The fact that US currently mishandles the whole situation, including creation of national security state, does not mean that situation can not be handled properly. It is political correctness and doublespeak which are clear and present danger (together with terrorism) to civil liberties. But here we have to come to the issue of American “elites” and their utter incompetence in just about any military or national security issue.

  99. kao_hsien_chih says:

    Umm, I guess I was unclear, but that is what I meant in essence.
    Profiling conditional on, say, Sunni Islam, is a very useful first step. Catholic nuns or Orthodox monks don’t do terrorism. It is a step that should definitely be taken, if we are being rational.
    Statistically, the problem is that, because there are so many Sunni Muslims and relatively few terrorists, the probability of false positives from profiling is (still) enormous. Profiling is useful ONLY as a complement to additional steps and procedures being implemented. Unfortunately, given the way American politics works, this is where things will start to go wrong. People will point out to the likely enormous number of innocent people being profiled and scream aloud that the process is failing. Budget shortfalls, inadequate training, and bureaucratic incompetence (all of which WILL happen with certainty) will ensure, in fact, that the additional, more nuanced procedures that need to accompany the profiling are not sufficiently implemented, which will generate some hairy cases of mistaken identities. These make for bad politics, even if there are very few of them. Even a very small variance is enough to mangle the implementation.
    It takes real leadership (and trust of the people) to get this through–if people trust the competence and goodwill of their leaders, they can accept a few inevitable screwups. I don’t think most American politicians have that kind of leadership in their bones. Rather than face a few screwups that they’ll have to deal with, they would rather do nothing and pontificate “inconsequentially” (for them, at any rate). This is the problem with statistics that I was talking about.

  100. Babak Makkinejad says:

    That is all fine but you have to work with what you have and not with what you wish to have.
    In a few decades, there will be 3 billion Muslims on this planet – 90% of them hailing from outside of the Old Seljuk boundary. For the West and for the Russian Federation, their best bet, in my opinion, still remains Iran & Turkey.
    Did you know that the German police – from Cologne – was in Afghanistan for years trying to teach them how to do police work in Germany?

  101. Tyler,
    Yeah, you’re right. Sanders does want to ban assault rifles. And he did confuse automatic with semiautomatic in that interview – not something he usually does. Trying to ban scary looking rifles is a silly idea. If the anti-gun crowd wanted to do something that would make a difference, they would try to severely restrict semiautomatic weapons like the government did with automatic weapons. It would make my M-1 carbine and M1911A1 into NFA type II weapons as well as all those scary AR-15 types. In my opinion, this will never fly.

  102. Babak Makkinejad says:

    And your Christian bretheren are all out in force selling stuff to the Gulfies, cuddling the Al Nusra, etc.
    Sowing whirlwind…
    Please see here:

  103. Fred,
    I doubt there are any Islamic symbols on Florida state property to remove. We’ll see if community efforts to stymie the construction of mosques picks up in response to this.
    In addition to Al-Nusra and the unicorns, we need to stop supporting the IS enablers of the Gulf countries, Turkey and Israel. I’d be happy to hear any politician support that.

  104. Tyler says:

    An ad hominem is not “words that are scary”. Let me explain the difference.
    “You are wrong because you are stupid.” Ad hominem.
    “You are wrong because you are stupid and here is why you are wrong. (Reasons follow)” Fine blend of rhetorical and dialectic with heritage to the Greeks.
    In this case it was neither. I asked you a question and instead you decided to be offended. So be it. Id suggest you follow your own advice.

  105. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Thank you for your comments.
    The European Union can rescind, even now, their economic embargo against SAR. It will not cost them anything, financially or politically. But they won’t do it because, in my opinion, just like the Imperial General Staff in 1939, they are committed to a different war than what is actually being fought.
    I read today that UK is building or expanding a naval base in Bahrain. Go figure.

  106. Will Reks says:

    You’d have to do a breakdown of which white males are marginalized. The nature of our economy along with policies adopted by the neoliberal elite has eliminated many blue collar jobs in the US over the last few decades. Is this what you’re referring to? Or are you referring to some social policies that hurt the feelings of certain white males?
    The wealthy whites have figured out how to become even more wealthy at the expense of the working man.
    Whites aren’t going anywhere just like the Hispanics or the Blacks aren’t going anywhere so I’m thinking we’re going to have to get over our racial pathologies.

  107. steveg says:

    Off topic somewhat. Razib Kahn
    has an article at unz.com,no link,
    entitled”There is no Exception in
    Islam”. Regular contributor posted
    right hand page. Interested in
    your thoughts if you have time to
    read it.

  108. Will Reks says:

    The guns were smuggled into France and Belgium from Eastern Europe.

  109. SmoothieX12,
    ‘Huge part of Wahabi ideology comes from Islam’s de facto defeat in civilizational struggle.’
    Partly true. But then, another part of it comes from the ‘devil’s pact’ we British made with what became the Saudi ‘Royals’, back in the First World War, which the Americans then took over.
    (On this, see two important pieces by the former MI6 operative Alastair Crooke – the link is at http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-aim-saudi-arabia_b_5748744.html .)

  110. Will Reks says:

    Your question was terrible. Yes, let’s do something that has very little to do with what actually happened. You are using this event as a pretext to address the issue that matters the most to you, immigration. Lets not pretend you give a crap about The Gays.
    So, let’s build a wall and stop immigration, legal and illegal.
    What policy is going to stop homegrown terror attacks? There are millions of Muslims here. More profiling? We’re already doing this.

  111. Farmer Don says:

    Col Lang,
    Sorry, since Dubhaltach’s only use of punctuation is a capital at the start of his paragraphs, and a lonely period at the end, I didn’t realize “virtue Signalling” was a phrase.
    From the urban dictionary:
    virtue signalling,
    Saying you love or hate something to show off what a virtuous person you are, instead of actually trying to fix the problem.
    It seems there is also something called: Shit Posting
    A sincere Thank you! for hosting, and moderating this blog.

  112. jonst says:

    Whether ‘we’ deserve it or not, is for the moment, beside the point. Repeat, for the moment….I would hope we are do our best to resist others who have violent intent for us. Period.
    In any event, correctly or not we are going to get blamed for everything that goes on in the ME. Its the national pastime of the ME.

  113. Babak Makkinejad,
    You are quite wrong about the ‘Imperial General Staff’.
    British war planners shifted to making contingency plans for a war with the Soviet Union after the Nazi-Soviet Pact. For God’s sake, of course British military planners then made contingency plans for operations against the Soviet Union: Stalin was in a pact with Hitler.
    That we almost blundered our way into a military confrontation with the Soviet Union after the pact, and pushed Stalin into concluding it, are quite separate issues.
    Ironically, moreover, it was precisely the service chiefs who, in the summer of 1939, belatedly came round to the realisation that it was imperative to seek agreement with the Soviet Union.
    Whether, had their advice been taken, it might have been possible either to have effective ‘deterrence’ against Hitler, or – probably more realistically – to begin the conflict under more favourable circumstances – is one of the great unanswerable questions of twentieth-century history.
    But the responsibility for the decisions taken is, ultimately, Chamberlain’s.
    It is also relevant 1. that he made the mistake of listening to the Polish Foreign Minister, Colonel Beck, and 2. that he had precisely the same approach to Russia as today’s American and British élites: that is, you simply assume hostile intentions and strategies of deception, without attempting to engage in ‘hard empathy’.
    The true intellectual heirs of Chamberlain are, of course, the ‘neoconservatives’ – and perhaps in particular, Victoria Nuland and Hillary Clinton. The true intellectual successor of Colonel Beck is of course Zbigniew Brzezkinski.
    While Beck helped produce a Russian-German alliance, Brzezinski has been instrumental in producing a Russian-Chinese one.

  114. SmoothieX12 says:

    Iran, undeniably. Turkey? We’ll see where it all goes.

  115. TTG,
    I agree absolutely. The question is: how do we get there from here?

  116. jonst says:

    “… but the heavy lifting has to be performed by Muslims themselves; in my opinion”. I fear waiting for that to happen will be akin to waiting ‘for the Lebanese Army to get themselves together to stop the Civil War’. IOW…waiting for Godot.

  117. SmoothieX12 says:

    >”It takes real leadership (and trust of the people) to get this through–if people trust the competence and goodwill of their leaders”
    Agree, but it is my almost academic position for the last 10-15 years that US “elites” are not capable to produce anyone who fits even most lax criteria for true leadership, competence and integrity. I know it is sad but it is a reality. Why it is so–it is for separate discussion. So, we all, me included, are dealt a national security state and a President who can not say word Islam. His national security team is a sad parody on mall security guards. Is Trump a solution, even if partial? I dunno, at least not yet.
    >”Profiling is useful ONLY as a complement to additional steps and procedures being implemented.”
    No disagreement here. But I will narrow the criteria: word Sharia can not be uttered (other than in academic and security discussions) nor be practiced in the US, period. You preach Sharia or practice it–you are outta here. The problem is–Sharia is a fundamental tenet of Islam. Conundrum? Yep. There is an outstanding movie called Crossing Over–it is a collection of immigrant’s stories (and some nude scenes with Alice Eve;-)), including one of Iranian immigrants from L.A. It is a must see picture. Apart from stunning cast it is one of those Hollywood’s lucid moments, when they produced a truly compelling non-PC small masterpiece. This movie is absolutely relevant to our discussion here.

  118. Balint Somkuti,
    I’m certainly not holding breath waiting for it to happen.

  119. LG says:

    Wahabist ideology predates Muslim loss in the civilizational struggle. It arises from hanbali (9th century) school and ibn taymiyyah (14th century).

  120. elaine says:

    I wish someone would respond to my question. I’m trying to figure out if any
    of the attacker’s selfies indicate a second burner phone, which if it did
    exist could possibly hold valuable info.

  121. Fred says:

    Front page editorial of the Detroit Free Press.
    Even my Muslim coworkers know this line is PC run wild.

  122. jld says:

    If there were any EVIDENCE for any religious stance wouldn’t there be some way to sort out among the 5000+ religious creeds which are the basis of various tribalisms.
    With such “good effect”…
    (did you read the link?)

  123. robt willmann says:

    Of the five videos shown on the intellihub website you linked to, the first one, with the person being cut off when he says someone was holding a door shut so they could not get out, seems to be from an ABC television report with George Stephanopoulos, probably yesterday, 12 June. A longer version is here, in which the person comes back on the line–
    Stephanopoulos says the person’s first remark that a door was being held closed was “quite surprising”. When the guy gets back on the phone, it sounds as if they were in a narrow space between the building and a fence, and the door possibly was in the fence, and it was being held shut from the outside by someone. Stephanopoulos then claims that it “helps when you say it was from the outside”, because he says he talked to another person who was holding a door closed from the outside because that person wasn’t sure who was on the other side, but if the door was being held closed from the inside, that would have suggested an accomplice. Say what, Sherlock? An accomplice could be holding a door closed from the inside or outside.
    The fifth video (or a compilation of videos) in that set, if authentic, is taken outside and records quite a few gunshots, and it is hard to tell if the shots are inside or outside the building, or both, with a voice saying that “they are shooting back and forth”–

  124. kao_hsien_chih says:

    Not always sure if you are being sarcastic or not with respect to civil liberties…
    SmoothieX12 is right about civil liberties: whether it is the official policy or not, people will get “profiled,” no matter what by all manner of people. The real question is whether it gets done skillfully, in conjunction with effective policy that goes beyond crude profiling so that the false positives and the attendant problems are minimized, or you get a bunch of undertrained and incompetent people going off on crude associations that are only half true. The trouble that I keep foreseeing is that US politicians are so lacking in public trust (or are too fearful of offending “serious people”) that they do not want to even get associated with running the risk of ANY false positives. This will ensure even greater suspicion and uncertainty as too many people go off making dangerous assumptions without knowing what they are doing, for lack of proper training, policy, and guidelines.

  125. Prem says:

    I’m watching Trump now. He’s dialled down the crazy and it’s a quite an impressive performance.
    He is making sense and comes across as a gut American. This issue will really hurt Hillary between now and November.

  126. kao_hsien_chih says:

    What did I say about gun laws?

  127. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Farmer Don 13 June 2016 at 12:03 PM
    Read it again.
    “Without engaging in virtue signalling”
    was what I wrote. I wrote that because that is what you are doing.

  128. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to turcopolier 13 June 2016 at 12:07 PM
    Yes, thank you.

  129. different clue says:

    The Twisted Genius,
    If we could delete oil-use from the energy source portfolios of the world, we could slow the rate of re-filling of the Saudi-Gulfie money tanks as fast or faster than they drain. (Though cyber-evaporation of all their money at once would be a neat thing, if achievable).

  130. different clue says:

    rakesh wahi,
    Yes, if the normal male is on a running field or race course with no interference and no distractions and no close-in-pressed bunches of other people in the way.

  131. raven says:

    If only we were all as smart as you.

  132. rjj says:

    FYI Tyler, this reads like some pain in the ass, menopausal Mom:
    “Please, please, please, try to at least pretend you understand the context of the point before responding with your snark, and then crying to the good Colonel “Teacher teacher! He’s being mean again!” when I respond to your infantile reasoning.”
    bitchy + bratty ≠ butch.

  133. Tyler says:

    lmbo the US is not “Christian” by any stretch of the term.
    up your game.

  134. Tyler says:

    I was pointing out the ridiculousness of trying to bang on Trump for what was a well reasoned response.

  135. Tyler says:

    I assume that by posting here people aren’t so autistic they need everything spelled out for them, until proven otherwise.
    I’ll make sure to amend going forward in your case.

  136. Tyler says:

    Expect to see more of this:
    Trump asked the million dollar question about Omar and his parents: “Why are they here?”

  137. Castellio says:

    I respect Babak’s answer “No one knows for sure.”
    But I would add this: is it of no relevance that a post on Hillary using a cell phone to authorize drones is then followed by a post on the shooting in Orlando? Are they not, at the very least, part of an associated (if not causal) “net of events”, and hence joined in the conversation of everyone?
    I accept the metaphor of a hornets nest, although this is much more lethal.

  138. VietnamVet says:

    I agree the West is whacking at hornet nests. The overloads intentionally do not acknowledge that Wahhabi Islam has declared war on the West because the Gulf Monarchies are an integral part of Wall Street and the City of London. The ruling neo-liberal ideology is the free movement of people and capital. Therefore, blame is placed on AR-15s. Corporate media shames Americans for not being kind hearted. This is a diversion to prevent the building of secure borders. Western rulers have no intention of forming an alliance with Russia and China to eliminate the Islamic State. Instead the Cold War 2.0 has reignited.
    Endless wars and continued terrorism suits their purposes rather than securing the peace.

  139. Tyler says:

    “Your question is terrible” and “You don’t really care” are actual ad hominems. Again, remove the beam from thy own eye.
    Forcible repatriation of all refugees, cancellation of all LAPR cards, deportation of anyone preaching Salafism.
    Remove the sea in which the fish swim.

  140. Dr. K says:

    Looking in the mirror?

  141. Tyler says:

    There would likely be 50 living gay people today if that was so.

  142. Tyler says:

    My point exactly.

  143. Tyler says:

    Not disagreeing with your conclusions.

  144. Tyler says:

    The idea that Trump has different ways of talking to different audiences seems to be a foreign one to many.

  145. raven says:

    Yea, when you started there would be.

  146. Dr. K says:

    You must be in law enforcement. How about real evidence.

  147. raven says:

    A “gut American” huh?

  148. Dr. K says:

    Cowardice? You must be a patriot.

  149. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Hey, you started it.

  150. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Thank you for your informative comments.
    I wonder though, why is Jack Straw not the PM in UK and Dalton (or Jenkins) not the Foreign Secretaries?
    Why isn’t anyone “fired” or kicked upstairs after all these major screw-ups?

  151. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I think my suggestion for hitching both Turkey and Iran to same wagon is a practical step, however difficult it may seem at the moment.

  152. SmoothieX12 says:

    Well, yes–it predates it. But the defeat which had many manifestations, from Lepanto to the gates of Vienna and, eventually to the age of Internet and space flight, and the spread of Wahhabism (albeit, not just that–I read Quttb’s Milestones, among many) are related. Fact is, Reilly, in my opinion absolutely correctly, makes an excellent case of Islam encountering Christendom during the times of first 4 Caliphs and being taken aback by its grandeur and ability. In some sense the victory of Asharites over Mutazelites can partially be attributed to the fact of not willing to settle on one of the most important tenets of Islam that Quran is uncreated. So, the point is, that there are many manifestations of Islam’s inferiority starting from the earliest days, but with the development of modern means of communications, media etc. the spread of Wahhabism became almost inevitable, especially when one considers who propagates it. Those media not only exposed an unrivaled combined West’s technological and cultural superiority, they also exposed Islam’s real military weakness which didn’t seat well with, now at least informed, new generations of Arab Muslims. So, what are the options? Modernize through “Westernization”, which also involves acceptance of West’s intellectual rational approach to the outside world, and this is an absolute No-No in Sunny Islam in general, or, well, trying to double down on doctrines which brought Islam to this state in the first place. We know the outcome. Just to give you an example, Russia is very proud of Prince Alexader Nevsky defeating Teutonic knights at Chudskoe Lake in 1242. Very proud, but for some reason, while being proud, Russian went on developing modern fighting doctrines, operational art, technological military prowess–all that based on observing and learning on every occasion from ancient times to present day. It was all done in classic Western rational manner. Now, if you want to understand where this whole Islamic rage comes from–my suggestion is to read General Malik’s The Quranic Concept Of War. Believe me,you will be treated to a demonstration of number of bizarre reasons for that and, what Colonel Norwell Atkine defined as “Why Arabs Lose Wars”. I wish I could answer more in detail but it will require a colossal post on my part.

  153. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Joined later by Deobandis, of the British Raj provenance.

  154. Will Reks says:

    Let me tell you why your question was terrible. There are millions of Muslims here as US citizens that could potentially be radicalized. None of your solutions would do anything to prevent someone from carrying out an attack exactly like the one that just happened. You would literally have to deport all American Muslims, even the legal ones. Just go there, already.

  155. Babak Makkinejad says:

    There is no other candidate – Turkey has to be included; regardless of the current antics of the AKP Government. You are dealing with the issue of Legitimate Religious and Temporal Authority. Shia cannot do it alone and no other Sunni Muslim State could do it.

  156. SmoothieX12 says:

    I see where are you coming from. You probably right, it was a combination of both external and internal factors. Another matter is, if we to be particular, what are the shares (percentages) of those factors. I think, all prerequisites were already in place and the mayhem would have occurred with or without external factors. As late Anwar Sheikh defined Islam–“it is an instrument of Arab Imperialism”(c) There is a lot of truth in this definition.

  157. Joe100 says:

    Tyler –
    Has any useful work been done (by individuals/organizations, etc.) outlining practical steps – prioritized by risk – towards “removing the sea”?
    If available, such work could be quite useful in expanding awareness and engagement on this problem and potential (if politicly challenging) solutions.
    As noted below this would include addressing removing financial support by the Gulfies and Turkey for salafists and for growing more of them around the world.

  158. raven says:

    You are a fucking moron.

  159. Will Reks says:

    I looked this up just to verify the information. Seems this endorsement came from a twitter account created just yesterday. Oddly convenient. The real Phoenix LGBT org denied endorsing Trump. I love that you are now defending the gays after referring to transgender folks as pedos just last week.
    Even Hoft admits the account was created after the attack via your link.

  160. BabelFish says:

    I keep on thinking that some gun control advocacy group is going to wake up and go after ammunition. Buy all the guns you want but each round will have a (name amount, say $5.00) tax on it. I think that will work as well as cigarette taxes. (Snark)

  161. turcopolier says:

    You are gone. pl

  162. kao_hsien_chih says:

    I don’t know what to think about Trump. He is cleverer than most politicians: he has a better sense of where and how the American public is unhappy with the way conventional politics is failing, whether with regards economy or security and how they are growing disenchanted with the smug but phoney symbolic politics. At the same time, he offers no real alternative other than appeals to trust him for no other reason than he is, essentially, a rich a***ole. So, a repeat of the whole hope-and-change con, except in a whole another costume, as far as I’m concerned. Not someone that I can find trustworthy.

  163. Babak Makkinejad says:

    What troubles me is not any temporary or timed emergency measure; rather the persistence of it for decades as the current situation continues unabated or worsens.
    One can look at Israel and see how bad things can go…

  164. turcopolier says:

    $5 per round in federal tax? So, basically you, too, are in favor of disarming the American people. pl

  165. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Nope; it was Ivan the Terrible that altered the orientation of Russia towards states West of the Diocletian Line. And it has been 500 years of “Revolution from Above” since then.
    That was the programme of Mustapha Kamal, Meiji, the Pahlavis etc. too.
    They all failed in that they discounted the importance of Liberty.

  166. turcopolier says:

    babak et al
    IMO a serious attempt by the federal government to force the disarmament of Americans would cause an outbreak of civil war. pl

  167. jonst says:

    My concern with “hitching” our wagon to these two entities is they are both in a state of internal turmoil. Significant turmoil. (so is the the US, to a certain extent so please don’t take this as an aspiration on Turkey or Iran). So…who the heck are we hitching up to?

  168. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I go on record here that I support the Second Amendment to US Constitution.

  169. walter says:

    America and Europe bring on these kinds of attacks through immoral foreign policy that creates anger/vengence toward them. It is simple. These guys aren’t blowing themselves up in Costa Rica. The answer is simple to me…same solution would apply to husband/wife; parent/child; nation/nation 1) don’t hurt others 2) if u do, admit your wrong 3) apologize profusely 4) make ammends
    wrongs: one sided support of Israel ; support of dictators in ME ; CIA overthrow of democtraticaly elected PM of Iran Mossadec 1953; etc
    We are a very violent Nation utilizing force/killing wantonly … we create an atmosphere of violence thru our use of violence.

  170. David,
    If I knew that, I’d run for president… except I have way too many skeletons in the closet that I wouldn’t want revealed. Actually, correctly identifying the problem would be a good start.

  171. Kooshy says:

    Bahak IMO you are correct, this thing will not be resolved with drones and in ME alone. I wrote before, Zbig was happy to gave the Soviets thier own VN, he was stupid not knowing he is giving the Americans and the west thier own Baghdad and Fallujah. IMO this will not be over just by sending more drones, troops, and kicking out and puting Muslims in camps. This folks have no idea what has started. Colonel PL knows, he speaks studied and lived there, he knows, but what the use, they don’t want to hear him. The west’ terrorism problem is with Sunnies that they pulled of the Jeanie box for other purposes, now that Jennie, isn’t, don’t want to, to go back in the box. Besides nobody is willing to admit mistakes, policy mistakes, the folks who made bad judjment, recomended and adopted wrong policies are the folks still advising and recommending policies. In the western politics, there is no consequences for making bad judjment, or making bad policy. You can even get nominated and get elected and double down, throwing more stuff at fan. It’s upside down world.

  172. Amir says:

    Would the House of Al Saud be a common denominator, though not the (yet proven) perpetrators, of a few coincidental events: 911, Boston Bombing, San Bernardino attach and Orlando Massacre?

  173. Tyler says:

    There are not “millions of Muslim citizens”. There are “millions of Muslims present here legally”. Your reading comprehension is terrible, ergo your answer is terrible.
    I already said deport the legal residents. I have no problem going there. Furthermore cut off any social aid the citizens get as well. Make it as inhospitable as possible.
    We’ve gotta make up for 50 years of the Kennedy-Cellar immigration bill. Thanks to you and yours for that, Will.

  174. Tyler says:

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Sen. Sessions has a giant file somewhere labeled “OPEN IN CASE OF RAMADAN-BOMBADAN” outlining steps that could be taken.
    NumbersUSA and FAIR likely have some ideas as well, but as Ann Coulter laid out in “Adios America”, finding negative information on immigrants of any sort via the federal government is a Herculean tasking.

  175. Tyler says:

    Are you an infant? Their votes count as much as anyone elses’ – that’s the way the game is played. Besides, I never said I wanted them slaughtered like sheep by the refugees your ilk keeps wanting to import here.
    Remember what I said by reading comprehension? You’re sounding pretty shrill over there. Must be hard watching your candidate go down in flames as she chants “gun control!” like she’s clutching a totem.

  176. Tyler says:

    Also egg on my face. When I see links up for hours with other linkage I tend to assume they’re true. Oh well.

  177. Tyler says:

    Dr. K,
    Are you trying to call me gay?

  178. Amir says:

    Referring to Moon of Alabama blog: http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/06/todays-orlando-killer-was-nypd-fan-this-tells-us-what.html He was also wearing NYPD T-shirts. He said that he belongs to ISIS, he could have just as well said that he was sent from the heavens, directly by God, on a mission to cleanse the earth. It does not make him any more believable. He probably was trying to give a positive (in his own mind) meaning to his hate crime.

  179. Amir says:

    Are you telling me that massacre of 50 people by a wife-beating hate-monger, whose colleague rather changed jobs that work work with him, is proof of the downfall of the US?

  180. Amir says:

    One might want to learn from Putin, maybe help him or at the very least get out of his way.

  181. robt willmann says:

    This photograph is claimed to be Omar Mateen, the suspect. Behind him on the wall is the logo of the SITE Intelligence Group–
    The SITE Intelligence Group says it creates reports for individual consumers about jihadist threats, far-right / far-left threats, and western jihadists, and does reports for government and businesses called jihadist threat enterprise and dark web and cybersecurity–
    The executive director of the SITE Intelligence Group is Rita Katz, and senior advisors are Bruce Hoffman and Rohan Gunaratna. The blurb page for Ms. Katz says, among other things, that: “Ms. Katz has infiltrated terrorist fronts undercover, testified before Congress and in terrorism trials, and had personally briefed government officials at the White House, as well as investigators in the Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Homeland Security.” And, she was “born in Iraq and [is] a graduate of Middle Eastern Studies at Tel Aviv University ….”
    When and where was this photograph taken?

  182. jerseycityjoan says:

    I had a similar reaction to Trump’s talk today. I disagree with him a lot — frankly I do not think he’s fit to be president – but there are many times when I feel he is speaking for me and for all Americans.
    Who else is speaking for all Americans these days?
    Neither of our two parties put the interests of Americans first. I at least can remember a time when they did; nobody American under 30 has experienced that, and probably nobody under 40 either.
    I like the phrase “gut American” and all that would entail.
    If Trump actually became president I do not think he’d serve out his term, as politicians on both sides would line up against him because he’d be dangerously right and dangerously wrong on the issues and his conduct would not be presidential. The Republicans who point out that he’s not a real conservative are quite right, I think.
    As part of the elite and a man who loves money, voters need to remember Trump cannot be trusted not to put them first at times. Still, I am glad (as of today) that he got into the 2016 race.
    If only a steady person would co-opt the best of Trump and the best of Sanders, Americans might be #1 in their own country again. I guess that is my hope and dream

  183. Amir says:

    I think you look at it from a wrong perspective. It is not about defeat nor victory. It is about sudden increase in population.
    The Mongols had a huge growth of population in 14th Century due to sudden advantageous climatic conditions and stop in internecine fighting.
    Similarly, the Hejazis (in Saudi Arabia) suddenly grew exponentially due to forbidding of their particular form of birth control (female infanticide was banned by Islam).
    Loosing a few children becomes acceptable, when you have 10 of them.

  184. Amir says:

    The West can stop feeding (litterally in a financial sense) the beast. Embargo all oil purchases from the House of Al Saud.

  185. rakesh wahi says:

    Turkey is a big challenge- how do we deal with today while remembering previous twenty years and looking forward to the future. Clearly AKP is getting the support of masses from Anatolia. Once the religon genie comes out hard to get it back in the bottle

  186. Amir says:

    He is channeling a political movement away from a truly novel path to Queen Hillary Clinton, the Wolverine in Sheep’s Clothing. A real alternative would be Jill Stein http://www.jill2016.com

  187. ex-PFC Chuck says:

    Tangential to the topic of this post but pertinent, the Middle East Eye has a story about a Petra News Service article that appeared briefly before it was taken down. Here is how it opens:
    “audi Arabia is a major funder of Hillary Clinton’s campaign to become the next president of the United States, according to a report published by Jordan’s official news agency.
    “The Petra News Agency published on Sunday what it described as exclusive comments from Saudi Deputy Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman which included a claim that Riyadh has provided 20 percent of the total funding to the prospective Democratic candidate’s campaign.
    “The report was later deleted and the news agency has not responded to requests for comment from Middle East Eye.”

  188. different clue says:

    I remember once commenting that there did not have to be highly organized planning with and from a distant power center to set off these kinds of attacks. This person could be viewed as one among several lone or small cell iron filings
    (with hopefully very few more to come) who were individually magnetized and moved into action by the powerful cerebro-magnetic field being powered up and applied by the PetroGulfie Wahhabists in general and also now by ISIS in particular.

  189. James Loughton says:

    Hasan was sentenced to death by a military court in August of 2013. Death sentences here in the states require an extremely lengthy appeals process which can take 10 to 20 years. He is paralyzed from the waist down from a wound he received from the responding police officer. He will continue to be a waste of taxpayers money and oxygen for a good long while, unfortunately.

  190. kooshy says:

    Babak, IMO Iran has already made an idealogical road map for the future of Shia. you are right her road map will not be accepted for and by the Sunnis, it’s the job of a prominent Sunni state to make the same for sunnies , but the problem is that Arab world don’t trust the intentions of ottoman Turks. IMO it needs a non military smart religious sunni from Egypt with a strong backing of Al-Azhar to do this job, if i were the west I would welcome and promote that, instead of being scared of it to overthrow puppet Sunni fake monarchies.

  191. Larry Kart says:

    Listening to former FBI agent Ali Soufan:
    on NPR tonight, I discovered that Omar Mateen’s connection to Islamic terrorist groups not only was (probably) all in his own head (this was not a big surprise) but also all over the map (this was a surprise) — he proclaimed fondness for (at various times) Hezbollah, Al Qaeda, the Al-Nusra Front, and at the very end in his 911 call, IS. Soufan called him “confused,” an understatement.
    The only answer, or “answer,” then to the sort of threat that Omar Mateen was and that others more or less like him will prove to be would seem to be the total removal from the U.S., by whatever means, of all Muslim men below the age of … take your pick, and whether or not they are U.S. citizens. OK, we can’t do that, for any number of reasons. Any thoughts, then, on how to deal with what one might call the Mateen impasse? Barring Muslim immigrants/refugees/visitors, etc. — how does that stop the Mateens of our world?

  192. Will Reks says:

    There are ~3 million Muslims in the US. http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/01/06/a-new-estimate-of-the-u-s-muslim-population/
    I’m guessing probably more than half are citizens. I wonder how one would even identify who is Muslim or not. There’s no registry. Would you just go by Arabic or common Muslim names? You’d probably catch quite a few Christians in that net. The feasibility of your proposals is not very high.
    You can blame other white people for Kennedy-Cellar. I wasn’t born yet. Also.. I don’t care very much about immigration.

  193. Babak Makkinejad says:

    US or EU would not be hitching into anything; the Turkish Republic and the Islamic Republic of Iran must construct a political and religious program and set of actions to be taken against the Jihadi scourge.

  194. Babak Makkinejad says:

    AKP is not going to become or remain a permanent feature of Turkey. They will pass too. Kemalist or AKP, they both agreed on one single item – Liberty is License.

  195. Nana2007 says:

    It looks like Hezbollah can now claim this turd…not that they would. The FBI had him under surveillance for 10 months prior. He’d met several times with informants. And his 911 pledge to Isis occurred in the middle of the massacre.
    “Mateen also told coworkers he had a family member who belonged to Hezbollah, a Shia network that is a bitter enemy of ISIS — the network he pledged allegiance to the night of the carnage, Comey noted.”

  196. Tyler says:

    plz stop you sound worst trying to lecture me.

  197. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Not going to happen, they just exercised their financial power at the UN – that dead vestige of Peace of Yalta.

  198. Will Reks says:

    You mean HRC? Feel free to do a search on any comment I’ve written here in the last few years. You’ll not find a shred of support for that neocon warmonger. I think she would be a disaster in the WH. Trump will just be a different sort of disaster. The Vanilla Messiah bringing hope and change for disillusioned whites.
    I hope Trump doesn’t blow this for your sake. HRC is the weakest candidate he could have faced.

  199. Tyler says:

    Can we add “Paid $25 Mil to the Clinton’s foundation” to that list of things SA has done?

  200. James Loughton says:

    Elaine – The pictures I have seen show his phone and therefore have been shot using a mirror. It is also possible to hold the phone at arms length with the lens pointed back at the holder. In that use, the phone does not show. Neither of these tell us anything about whether he owned a second phone.

  201. James Loughton says:

    Yes, it’s Hope and Change all over again. Details to be filled in later.
    OTOH, I fear Hillary Clinton, perhaps more than I fear Trump.

  202. James Loughton says:

    Yes, we would then be looking in the right haystack where the needles are known to come from. But PC prevents that, and it would also be argued that this would alienate Muslims whose assistance we need in order to track down radicals. I’m a bit skeptical of this last argument since it appears to be that we have been offered very little assistance from Muslims close to the attackers in recent attacks.

  203. Fred says:

    Dr. K,
    You’re back. Welcome. Thanks for the response. When I voted for Obama this wasn’t the change I was hoping for. Maybe I can get something better in the 3rd term with Hilary.

  204. Fred says:

    and not having just been shot at.

  205. robt willmann says:

    The matter of the photo I referenced and the SITE Intelligence Group is still ambiguous. Did SITE put its logo on a photo it got from somewhere else? Are they claiming the photo as their own, by superimposing their logo on the image, as if they took the photo or purchased it, and are claiming a copyright to it? Or is the logo actually on the wall behind where Omar Mateen is sitting?

  206. Tyler says:

    We can deport 20 million illegal aliens. I’m sure we can deal with half a million foreign born Muslims.
    I’m blaming you and your ilk doubling down on destructive policies over and over again with the hubris that only comes from being insane.
    Also lawl. “Don’t care about immigration but watch me pathologically argue with you about it”. Sure thing.

  207. Tyler says:

    Dr. K,
    You must be a prog or a GCP sockpuppet. In what world is calling 911 and swearing alliance to IS not evidence?

  208. Tyler says:

    A joke that has the ring of truth about it:
    “Muslim communities fear backlash after tomorrow’s car bombing.”

  209. Tyler says:

    Vanilla Messiah has decades of success behind him vs. the Half Blood Prince being a cipher liberal whites could project their fantasies on.
    I’m also not going to get into autistic parsing arguments with you about “Show me where I said EXACTLY THAT”. If you’re arguing her positions, you support her.

  210. Henshaw says:

    Juan Cole suggests (persuasively) that the father is an old-style Pushtun nationalist, still railing at the Durand Line that the Brits drew in 1893, that divided the Pushtun tribal territories between Afghanistan and British India.

  211. optimax says:

    robt wikkman
    The Site logo is super imposed. Right click on the image, click image info and you will see the logo and image have different addresses. In fact, after doing that, now when I follow the link I go straight to a Site page.

  212. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Nana2007 13 June 2016 at 10:19 AM
    Amazingly enough I have better things to do than feed information to those too indolent to do it for themselves.

  213. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Farmer Don 13 June 2016 at 01:03 PM
    Thank you for admitting that your posting was both virtue signalling and shit posting. It’s a start.

  214. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Larry Kart 13 June 2016 at 07:42 PM
    That’s not all that surprising – it’s actually rather typical. You’ll also find that many young jihadi admirers have a very limited grasp of Arabic (if any). They may have memorised some or all of the Qur’an but parse it? Nope. Same goes for the hadiths.

  215. Mac says:

    No, given the totality of circumstances, definitely not….
    It doesnt matter that he could have been off his rocker – his own words eatablish alleigance to the wahhabist cause was at least one central reason for his actions, qualifying as wahhabi inspired terrorism….on US soil, again….
    How I’d wish for tomorrow’s State Department briefing to announce the termination of US military support for the animals in Riyadh….its the only real way

  216. Mac says:

    In the best of all possible worlds, I agree that tis better relief be organic….but, there is also the Japanese model….

  217. kooshy says:

    Saudi Arabia key funder of Clinton campaign: Report
    The Saudi defense minister says Riyadh has funded as much as 20 percent of the money that US presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton has spent to court voters, according to a report.
    Mohammed bin Salman’s remarks were published and later deleted by Jordan’s official Petra News Agency. The website claimed on Tuesday that it had been hacked and that the item had been fabricated.
    The report, however, has been republished by the Washington-based Institute for Persian Gulf Affairs.
    “Saudi Arabia always has sponsored both Republican and Democratic Party of America,” said Mohammed, also the Saudi deputy crown prince, who is widely known as the power behind the throne.

  218. SmoothieX12 says:

    >I think you look at it from a wrong perspective. It is not about defeat nor victory. It is about sudden increase in population.
    Well, I don’t know. War in Chechnya turned into de facto religious war in an instant (as was expected). Chechnya’s population is less than 2 million people. Dagestan is not particularly overpopulated, to put it mildly, either, yet–voila’. What is so populous in Saudi Arabia? Nothing. As a former military professional the first thing I do always I look look for guiding idea, a doctrine. A doctrine is Islam–in its pure form it is violent.

  219. SmoothieX12 says:

    >They all failed in that they discounted the importance of Liberty.
    Babak, Russia, through her Slavic Russian Orthodox root is a variation of Western civilization. It is West’s bastard child, or cousin, whatever one wants to use, but child or cousin nonetheless. It is both blessing and a tragedy. But that is beyond the point. Now, what liberty are you talking about? Islam means literally submission. Ataturk actually ordered all Al Ghazali’s books to be withdrawn from libraries, some were burned.

  220. Babak Makkinejad says:

    No Shia Muslim will ever name their son “Omar”, or “Othman”, or “Abu Bakr”. Hell has to freeze over first.

  221. John Minnerath says:

    Instead of looking at how to get a handle on ISIS followers wreaking havoc in this country, the Dems are crawling all over this thing as a gun control issue.
    Even the director of Homeland Security calling gun control a matter of National Security.

  222. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Western Civilization consists of 3 main ingredients; the Legacy of Rome, the Ideas and Practices of Liberty among Germanic Tribes, and (Western) Christianity with its medieval scientific program.
    I agree that the Western Civilization is the most dominant civilization on Earth and quite successful and I know that many outsiders, such as Israelis or Russians, wish to associate with it.
    But even if one is hailing from Hell, the better approach is to accept one’s origins and then set about seeing what can be done to alter and change things.
    In regards to Liberty, I am not saying anything profound; only that the ideas of Liberty and Freedom have not been explored in Judaism or in Islam or in Orthodoxy or in Hinduisms or in Buddhism.
    Such ideas as Personal Freedom, Freedom of Though and Conscious and the practices that go with them have been rooted within the context of the Roman Republic which later were strengthened when Christianity met it and the Germanic tribes and over centuries the Western Thinkers developed those ideas.
    Kemalist in Turkey and various Russian governments since the time of Ivan the Terrible never ever encouraged Freedom. The Kemalist in Turkey put the garb of a Western man on but assiduously refused to countenance Freedom of Thought, Expression, Assembly etc.
    And you are quite familiar with the History of Absence of Freedom in Russia.

  223. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I agree, Chechens were stupid.
    Iran, at a political cost among Muslims, never supported the Chechens against the Russian Federation.

  224. Henshaw says:

    A key consideration with these entities is that they are very attractive to governments because by using them, governments can put certain of its activities at arm’s length, avoid direct responsibility, and hide behind commercial in confidence arrangements. They also allow a certain amount of plausible deniability.
    Australia uses such entities to run its offshore refugee detention centres. The conditions in these places are rather grim and lawless. Government says that, based on reports from company, all is well, and company says it can’t comment as matters are commercial in confidence.

  225. DC says:

    As it turns out (as revealed by news from the killer’s classmates and social relations), you’re correct. This fellow was a self-hating, violent, homosexual. At this point, I think convesations about “the problem with Islam” must step away from the text and the hadiths (which of course say terrible things about gays and women) but also that Islamic countries have cultures which are virulently anti-gay (many of those countries have the death penalty on the books for such activity). So, what is a young, gay, male, Muslim supposed to do if his sex drive is for men? It is troublesome, especially if you add into the mix mental illness, an abusive father, and in that connection an attraction to jihadist ideology.

  226. jld says:

    Yes, the “wrong turn” has been Al Ghazali, it allows literally ANYTHING if promoted by a leader charismatic enough.

  227. Will Reks says:

    Immigration is a policy issue. It would take an act of Congress to revoke citizenship from Muslim-Americans, whether foreign born or not. Not an easy task. You’re ignoring that there is not a low number of US born Muslims.
    Immigration is not an existential threat to me or mine. However, your cause does require convincing more people like me of the validity of your fears. You realize I do not care if you get your way.
    The crazy, disaffected white guy or the local gangs are as much of a threat to me and my family as any other.

  228. Babak Makkinejad says:

    An Italian professor once told me that when one speaks of one country, one, in fact, is speaking of multiple “countries” residing in one.
    Sort of like the original idea of the Nine Nations of North America.
    There are many different variants of Islamic practices and a least 2 major Muslim Civilizations – the Seljuk and non-Seljuk one.
    I think it is very difficult to discuss all these various strands of Thought and Practice in any thing near the thoroughness that they deserve.
    One inevitably has to fall on generalizations that are indubitably crude but retain enough of Truth to help orient oneself in both comprehension and in action (if needed).
    I think Riza Khan is doing a decent job of critiquing and responding to the arguments of others – many of which I am not familiar with. It is a brave intellectual effort and we certainly could use more of it.
    [I suspect, from both the author’s intellectual vigor and his first name that he be a Shia Muslim – a Twelver….But I am likely reading too much into it.]
    I agree with him that it is the Western Civilization (not Christianity as a religion) that is unique and not Islam. Furthermore, I agree with Shadi Hamid that Islam (as well as Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc.) are incompatible with Western Modernity in as much as Western Modernity dominates the Western Civilization at this historical junction.
    As I tried to explain to LeaNder, we are dealing with multiple incompatible ideas (or responses) to the perennial question of Plato: “What is Justice?”
    The way forward, in my opinion, towards peace and tranquility, requires the acceptance of the indisputable empirical fact, that these various incommensurate senses of Justice (The Cosmic Order, if one does not like the word “Justice”) that informs various societies on this planet cannot be destroyed but only marginalized through war (like the Apache) or managed through Cease-Fire deals.
    In other words, transformative wishes & hopes, however attractive such visions are to their holders, are impractical and unachievable. Islam, for example, failed to annihilate Hinduism, Hinduism annihilated Buddhism in India but not outside of India, and the Western Civilization’s attempts at destroying the Orthodoxy failed twice over the last 200 years.
    Rather than seeking a Uni-Culture (uni-justice) Utopia, it is best to follow the Quran, and accept that we are set up as different religions and tribes and nations and manage our mutual antipathies.

  229. Mac says:

    I find myself agreeing with u again, but it does appear it is being diverted towards that domestic narrative of guns control etc…
    I also have a question: I am trying to explain to a friend the significance of the absence of a central authority in Islam – is this true more so on the Sunni side or is it equally the case for both Sunni and Shia?

  230. Kooshy says:

    I don’t know if Chechens were stupid or like Talaban were paid by the Saudies, we do know as late as A few years back, Mr Putin was threten by Bandar Bush to unleash the Chechens on him again. So once again we should look at the finanIng trail.

  231. Tyler says:

    Will Reks,
    Which is why Obama can unilaterally decide who and how they’re going to deport. We are talking about people here on refugee visas and LAPRs. Not a whole lot needed to strip them of their right to be here. Stay on tangent and stop playing the prog game of conflating two different scenarios.
    The United States turning into a 3rd world sewer is indeed an existential threat to you and yours. The fact that you’re too busy burying your head in the sand doesn’t change things.
    lawl at your last line. You forgot to add: *typed in a majority white zip code surrounded by white people*

  232. Tyler says:

    Not all gays are willing to be sacrificial lambs to push the Left’s insane policies.

  233. Tyler says:

    Gotta elect the Borg Queen, no matter what.

  234. Tyler says:

    These people are evil.

  235. kao_hsien_chih says:

    Your comment reminds me of something that one of my former colleagues would talk about very casually. My former colleague is a Lebanese and she’d talk casually about how her family has to plan for extra delays whenever they have to travel by plane–because her husband will ALWAYS be subject to extra layer of search, but every one of these searches was accompanied by rote proclamations by the officials that they are NOT being profiled for being Muslim Arabs (I don’t remember if she was talking just about air travel in the US or other countries also). She thought that was very funny: it was very obvious that, by official policy or not, they WERE being profiled. But since the official policy was that they are not, the officials were being required to say that they are not. She thought it was “funny”–not really that funny, but just absurd, I suppose. I thought this looked very Orwellian. It seems that the multiculturalist protestations by American elites are designed only to convince themselves that they are not singling out any ethnic and/or religious group, unlike us hoi polloi (that is, people like me and Tyler, I guess). The way my colleague talked about it, this is completely false in practice and no one is buying these protetations–except the elites themselves. My thought on that back then was, and still is, I suppose, if no one (else) believes this, we might as well recognize the reality, even if it doesn’t flatter our peculiar pride, be honest about what we are doing, and try to do a better job at it.

  236. SmoothieX12 says:

    I seem to never get full number of post in the thread–the problem repeated itself. I see 85-95 posts max out of 235. It seems when I post something the full thread reappears. Please, consider this post as a technical one.
    P.S. I did clear cache and cookies yesterday, the problem, persists.

  237. SmoothieX12 says:

    >Western Civilization consists of 3 main ingredients; the Legacy of Rome, the Ideas and Practices of Liberty among Germanic Tribes, and (Western) Christianity with its medieval scientific program.
    Babak, Roger Scruton, arguably the best contemporary West’s historian, gives a definition of the Western Civilization:”the roots of Western Civilization lie in the religion of Israel, culture of Greece, and the law of Rome, and the resulting synthesis has flourished and decayed in a thousand ways during the two millennia following the death of Christ”(c). Actually, even psychopath Brzezinski is not in agreement with you–he defines Russia as Western Civilization, albeit with his caveats. As per that:
    >And you are quite familiar with the History of Absence of Freedom in Russia.
    Yes, I am quite familiar with Russian history and it is clear that you never read Tolstoy or Dostoevsky (among many). I would suggest you acquaint yourself with Isiah Berlin’s “The Russian Thinkers”–a seminal work by one of the mightiest classic liberal thinkers of our times. I am also quite well aware of Europe’s history.

  238. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Yes, I know, like this fellow who was caught in Iran trying to blow himself up in a Shia mosque; he had been paid $ 5000.
    But there are other considerations here in regards to the Chechens; a former refusnik colleague, years ago, told me that the Chechens that he heard on TV were speaking flawless Russian – not even very many Russians speak that language without making grammatical mistakes.
    And then you have to look at those 2 million souls; how were they were going to make a living after their independence? Independent Armenia, independent Georgia, independent Tadjikistan all source of immigrant labor to the Russia Federation. I suppose that what Chechen were going to do, after their supposed independence.
    Next, after the First Chechen War, they were de facto independent, Russian state had receded and they could try to make good on all their ideals and ideas of post-independence from Russia.
    But they failed and they failed very badly – and they added to it by initiating attacks on the Russian Federation. They never had had a history of statehood.
    I suppose that they entertained the same delusions that Westerners have – that any body can create a viable functioning state like those in Western Europe. That some people are incapable of doing so, in East Timor, in South Sudan, in Congo, in Somalia, in Kosovo is too bitter a fact to acknowledge.

  239. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I stated my opinion, Scruton has his.
    Israel had nothing to do with Western Civilization; Christianity did. I wonder why he is trying to minimize that.
    The God of Christianity, per Nicene Creed, is not the same God as that of Judaism and Islam.

  240. jld says:

    That some people are incapable of doing so, in East Timor, in South Sudan, in Congo, in Somalia, in Kosovo is too bitter a fact to acknowledge.

    Oh! But… but… Isn’t this the racism you so despise?

  241. SmoothieX12 says:

    >I stated my opinion, Scruton has his.
    Babak, nothing personal, but Scruton is a very serious academic with international reputation. But, of course, you a free to think any way you want.
    >Israel had nothing to do with Western Civilization; Christianity did.
    Well, last time I checked Jesus Christ was a Jewish rabbi.

  242. Cee says:

    Trump is certainly right about it!! She takes money from them too!

  243. Cee says:

    Vietnam Vet,
    And he was CLEARED TWICE for employment with G4S. I smell a rat!!

  244. Cee says:

    This is just silly.
    He also claimed he supported the Israel al-Nusra proxy warriors.
    I think this closeted gay man was used. By whom is yet to be determined.

  245. bth says:

    There was a gun battle between the shooter and the off duty policeman and then 3 LEO that quickly responded. This was done in a club with 350 people somewhere on the premises not counting the final exchange. Hard to imagine that there wasn’t friendly fire in that chaos.

  246. BabelFish says:

    It sounds like your system is translating the ‘click to see more entries’ button as the end of entries. Not an IT expert but just offering it up.

  247. Stephanie says:

    Trump’s poll numbers, which were already declining, have collapsed in the immediate wake of Orlando. GOPers who were reluctantly falling in line behind him are now hedging or attacking Trump openly. And Trump’s statements become wilder by the day. It is possible that things will calm down before the convention in Cleveland, and conventional wisdom says that his numbers will go up again then, but given that it is Trump himself who is stoking the fire, it’s hard to see that happening any time soon.

  248. Babak Makkinejad says:

    No worries, if we all agreed on our basic understandings we would not be here exchanging them to refine them.

  249. Daniel Burke says:

    I see a connection to the attempted full release of the 28 Pages which, according to former Senator Bob Graham, are a “smoking gun” on 9/11, pointing to Saudi government sponsorship of the hi-jackers.
    Yesterday Walter Jones, very reliable Republican from NC, introduced a resolution, HR 779, calling for the Chairman and ranking minority member of the House Intel Committee to publish the classified 28 pages into the Congressional Record. He cites similar actions in 1975 by the Church Committee, to release a classified CIA report on assassinations, and Senator Mike Gravel’s reading of the Pentagon Papers into the Senate Record in 1971.
    I would hope members of this committee would encourage their representatives to back him up by signing on and generating a public debate which might create the environment for some brave congressman to read it out.

  250. Fred says:

    Poll numbers as reported in the “It’s not radical Islamic terrorism” sources.
    “given that it is Trump himself who is stoking the fire,”
    Trump is stoking the fire of what, besides liberal outrage?

  251. different clue says:

    Well . . . that too.

  252. Mike says:

    My guess would be the rat is minimizing cost, maximizing profit.

  253. no one says:

    Not to mention his buddy, from the same mosque, going over to Syria and blowing himself up in the name of jihad. Weird coincidence I guess.

  254. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to John Minnerath 14 June 2016 at 10:05 AM
    Well it is a matter of National Security just not in the way he means it. Did you ever read the C. S. Lewis “Narnia” stories? – He expressed it wonderfully well in the last of them :
    “And then she understood the devilish cunning of the enemies’ plan. By mixing a little truth with it they had made their lie far stronger.”

  255. Dubhaltach says:

    If you’re using Firefox – go into:
    History find this site → once you find turcopolier.typepad.com → right click → pick “Forget about this site”
    NOT delete because the entries could still be hanging around in a corrupted version of the JSON database that firefox uses. Forcing a “forget” forces firefox to refresh the database.

  256. Stephanie says:

    The slide in Trump’s numbers has been noted everywhere.
    With regard to “stoking the fire,” I was referring to the observable fact that almost every day Trump says or tweets something more outrageous than the day before. It does not matter to his hardcore supporters, because they agree with him on most things, don’t care about the disagreements, and dismiss his (many) reversals. However, you now have a situation where GOP senators are refusing to take any questions about their party’s nominee until after the election. 28% of Republicans are unhappy with their own party:
    If that doesn’t move you, consider that Trump’s blather is now helping, not hurting, Clinton. I presume you would like to see people talking about her e-mail server; they’re not, because Trump is attacking Federal judges on ethnic grounds and accusing American troops of stealing.
    It’s what happens when you take the dog whistle out of dog whistle politics and the GOP is now reaping the whirlwind. Should be an interesting convention.

  257. kao_hsien_chih says:

    There hadn’t been enough time to collect meaningful numbers in the aftermath of the Orlando shootings, so I wouldn’t trust these numbers just yet. If they were carefully collected, they reflect the reaction to the week or two when Trump was fumbling about the Ohio judge and when prominent Republicans were publicly attacking him. If they were not carefully collected, they mean nothing informative.
    What I’d pay attention to is within which demographics the numbers are changing, not the overall poll numbers. There have been a lot of problems in recent polls in getting the right mix of sample in polls. Much better success has been found in patching together proximate hypotheticals of what the electorate might look like and weighing their probabilities. While the latter is more difficult to pull off properly and rather harder to easily interpret, one can get a gist of what is going on by looking at crosstabs more carefully: i.e. is Trump losing support from the Republicans or what? If Trump is losing numbers b/c Republicans seem to be turning against him, that’s not much of a news–party voters usually dislike the other side enough that they would hold their nose and vote for their party come the election day, for example.

  258. LeaNder says:

    Interesting, Babak. A piece of the larger puzzle, maybe?
    I stumbled across reference but by now almost forgot about it.

  259. LeaNder says:

    and the Western Civilization’s attempts at destroying the Orthodoxy failed twice over the last 200
    Are you alluding to Islam’s orthodoxy here, kind of closing the circle from where the sentence starts? An elaborate Ellipsis?
    If so, what were the two attempts?
    In any case this part of the sentence I would like to understand better.

  260. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Hitler and Napoleon.

  261. steveg says:

    Thank you for your reply. The multiplicity
    of religions and their various offshoots
    are almost too complicated to comprehend
    not to mention their historical ramifications
    toward each other.

  262. Timbre Sick o' More says:

    Somebody tell me…what does the “AR” in AR-15 stand for?

  263. turcopolier says:

    timbre sick’o more
    Armalite. this company was the original designer of this variety of rifle. There are now many manufacturers of a large number of variants. pl

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