RUSSIA-LINKED dark fleet* tanker Eagle S (IMO: 9329760), seized by Finland on December 25 for damaging an undersea cable, had transmitting and receiving devices installed that effectively allowed it to become a “spy ship” for Russia, Lloyd’s List has learnt. The hi-tech equipment on board was abnormal for a merchant ship and consumed more power from the ship’s generator, leading to repeated blackouts, a source familiar with the vessel who provided commercial maritime services to it as recently as seven months ago.
As well as Eagle S, another related tanker from the same ownership cluster, UK-sanctioned Swiftsea Rider (IMO: 9318539), also had similar equipment installed, Lloyd’s List was told. Cook Islands-flagged Eagle S and Honduras-flagged Swiftsea Rider are two of 26 elderly Russia-linked tankers with opaque ownership structures connected to three related shipmanagers, including two sanctioned by the UK government 12 months ago for “propping up Putin’s war machine”. The sanctions-circumventing tankers were bought between 2022 and 2023 and placed under bareboat charter arrangements with Eiger Shipping, the shipping arm of Russia oil trader Litasco.
Eagle S was boarded by Finnish forces investigating sabotage of the Estlink 2 undersea cable that disrupted the supply of electricity to Estonia from Finland. The tanker slowed and dragged its anchor around the cable around midday, December 25, Finland’s police said. Another three cables were also damaged.
The source, who declined to be identified to protect their safety, supplied at least 60 confidential documents about Eagle S to Lloyd’s List in June, including the vetting report that outlined many safety deficiencies discovered during an inspection undertaken while at anchor in Danish waters that month. These documents, and others relating to dark fleet tankers providing confidential and private information about class, insurance, and flag, and other technical and regulatory requirements, were verified as genuine at the time.
In July, Lloyd’s List reported the serious deficiencies on Eagle S that compromised environmental and crew safety, and underscored the poor maintenance and absence of adherence to regulatory and technical standards for the wider dark fleet.
The source has since provided additional information, telling Lloyd’s List that an unauthorised person, who was not a seafarer, had been identified on board Eagle S. They said listening and recording equipment was brought on to the 20-year-old tanker via “huge portable suitcases” along with “many laptops” that had keyboards for Turkish and Russian languages when calling at Türkiye and Russia.
The equipment was kept on the bridge or in the “monkey island”, they said. The monkey island is the top-most place on the ship. The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis. “They were monitoring all Nato naval ships and aircraft,” Lloyd’s List was told. “They had all details on them. They were just matching their frequencies. Russians, Turkish, Indian radio officers were operating it.” Eagle S also dropped “sensors-type devices” in the English Channel during a transit, they said.
They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge, but other devices were placed on another related tanker, Swiftsea Rider.
Claims that Russian-linked merchant ships are being used for spying and sabotage activities in the Baltic Sea where Russia is surrounded by Nato allies underscores the rising geopolitical tension in the region amid calls by European political leaders for increased maritime infrastructure defence.
Comment: It’s about time someone did this. And we all know it would be one of the front line NATO countries rather than one of the old guard. At this point, Finland is treating the matter as aggravated vandalism. That’s probably because the Law of the Sea and the right of innocent passage is far too nebulous to support further action. I wouldn’t be surprised if the Finns start talking about espionage charges. When asked if Finnish authorities were going to inform Russia of this, they responded they have no intentions of talking with Russia about the matter. Seems the Finns want actions, not diplomatic words.
Both Estonia and Finland are now working hard to convince NATO to take further action against Russia’s ghost fleet and to push for stronger action under the Law of the Sea treaties. Russia’s ghost fleet is moving far beyond mere sanctions busting. They are being used as a modern day version of WWII Q ships to conduct sabotage and espionage operations. I think it’s past time to conduct more boarding and seizure operations.
TTG
More info at: https://www.twz.com/sea/russian-linked-oil-tanker-suspected-of-sabotage-brimming-with-surveillance-equipment-report
So on Christmas Day, Putin: 1] severed a Finn-Estonian undersea power cable; 2] severed at least two Finn telecom cables; 3] used Turkish and Indian nationals to listen in on NATO comms; 4] attacked an Azeri aircraft killing 36 passengers (including seven Russian citizens) and three aircrew and severely injuring 28 others; 5] launched a massive missile and drone attack on Ukrainian cities; and 6] arrested Ukrainian civilians in the occupied territories of Donetz & Luhansk & Zaporizhzhia who celebrated Western Christmas.
The Swedish and Danish navies could easily stop all those suspected ships from entering the Baltic Sea and now they may have to. Some of the recent activities show that Russia is facing increasing pressure, both military and economic. It is turning into a classic FAFO, I am sure those who have been tulsified and flynned will disagree, but there are signs that things are getting serious on many fronts. Where the breaking point is, I do not know, but I am convinced it is out there and probably closer than expected.
OK, I get that deliberately dragging an anchor over some undersea cables is more than a little careless, and I got no problem with the idea that if this was deliberate then it is vandalism.
Agreed.
But I have a serious problem with describing the recording of radio broadcasts as “espionage”.
Pardon?
If you don’t want your communications to listened to then don’t broadcast them by radio.
After all, the West doesn’t own the radio waves. Anyone is free to listen on any radio frequency they care to: westerners, orientals, and everyone in between.
I guess the issue is that these ships are doing more than they are supposed to and that makes them a military target, since their actions are seen as military.
YR –
“Vandalism”?
No, a more correct term is sabotage. It’s an act of the hybrid war that Putin has been playing. Let’s hope that the ship and it’s cargo are sold and the proceeds used to repair the cables it destroyed. The SIGINT gear and its operators should be given to NSA, GCHQ et al for exploitation. Except for the renegade Turk onboard who should be extradited to Erdogan to face justice.
I mis-spoke. After reading the Lloyds List article all the way through I note that all of the spy equipment may or may not have been on the Eagle-S when seized by the Finns. Per the article:
“They said no further equipment returned to the ship after it was offloaded for analysis, to their knowledge, but other devices were placed on another related tanker, Swiftsea Rider.”
We’ll have to wait and see what the Finnish authorities turn up.
leith,
The source was a whistleblower or maybe a Lloyds of London recruited source reporting on activities of Russia’s ghost fleet six months or more before the seizure of the Eagle-S. The Finnish authorities also reported finding radio equipment on the Eagle-S when they seized it.
TTG: “The Finnish authorities also reported finding radio equipment on the Eagle-S when they seized it.”
And? So?
Yeah, Right,
The Finnish finding of radio gear corroborates the reporting of LLoyds of London.
TTG – Not if this bluesky post by
Tomi McCluskey is true.
https://bsky.app/profile/tomi-mcc.bsky.social/post/3lejolbsakc25
leith,
That sounds pretty definitive to me. Most articles ended up referring to the six month old Lloyds List reporting. I found an Estonian and Finnish report that referred to signal equipment captured on the Eagle-S, but I guess they were also referring to the Lloyds List reporting and it got lost in translation. I guess the Finns will stick with the cable cutting as the crime.
And? So?
Radio broadcasts are described as “broadcasts” for a reason.
The is no law – none whatsoever – that says that you or I or the Russians or the Chinese or the inhabitants of Timbuktu are prohibited from tuning any radio equipment we care to purchase to the same frequencies used by NATO warships.
N.o.n.e.
If NATO warships don’t want their radio broadcasts to be listened to and recorded then they have a simple remedy: don’t broadcast them.
This… nonsense… about radio receiving equipment on these ships is just a case of journalistic sensationalism of the worse kind: you and I and everyone else here has seen photos of ships designed to conduct SIGINIT and they very definitely don’t look like oil tankers with suitcase-sized radio receivers propped up in “monkey island”.
Jeeeeeeeesus wept, they are “shadow fleet” tankers. They would be very much aware that Genocide Joe and his vassals could have a brain-explosion at any time and decide to start seizing those tankers on the high seas.
So, yeah, *I’d* be installing radio equipment on those tankers and telling them to keep an ear turned to NATO radio frequencies .
After all, that would be prudent, don’t ya’ think?
Yeah, Right,
Monitoring radio traffic would indeed be prudent for any smuggler. They’d be foolish not to do so. Even if they are/were conducting espionage in international waters, that’s no big deal. Surveillance ships and aircraft ply their trade in international waters and even in ports all the time. The only rub is that it marks the ships as engaging in espionage rather than being pure merchant ships.
In the case of the Eagle-S and it’s anchor dragging activities on Christmas day, that appears to be the only nefarious activity it was involved in that day. Leith found info that the Finns found no signals intelligence gear when they seized the Eagle-S. Six or more months ago? Quite possibly according to Lloyds List.
TTG: “I guess the Finns will stick with the cable cutting as the crime”
I’m sorry, but what “crime” does a ship-owner commit by putting radio-receivets on their oil tankers???
This hyperventilating over radio equipment is just beyond bizarre: there is NO law against putting a radio receiver on a ship, and there is NO prohibition on tuning such receivers to any radio frequency that takes their fancy.
Yo are perfectly free to do so
Leith is perfectly entitled to do so.
Why does it become a crime when the owner of an oil tanker does so?
Yeah, Right,
Pay attention. I said cable cutting is the crime, not signals intelligence. Dragging anchors in a circle and cutting cables is a crime, a crime of vandalism IAW Finnish law.
I’m sorry, I have to take offence
It was YOU that wrote “I guess the Finns will stick with the cable cutting as the crime.”
I defy anyone to read that and NOT come to the conclusion that you believe that there are *other* crimes that the Finns could have laid other charges but haven’t.
So, once more, yet again, what OTHER crimes do you believe can be levelled against this crew?
Yeah, Right,
When I thought the Finns found signal intelligence collection gear on the Eagle S, I figured they might tack on espionage on behalf of Russia as another charge. Since no gear was found, no espionage charges. I guess they could at least confiscate the sanctioned unleaded gas it was transporting. So the only crime the Finns can truly stick with is the cable cutting.
From the article: “The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis.”
I’m sorry, but how is that “espionage”, and in what way is it a “crime” to record anything that is being freely broadcast for the entire world to listen in on.
I get that this is “signal intelligence” but – again – in what way is that an illegal act?
Once more, yet again: if NATO doesn’t want anyone from listening in of their communications then it should stop using radio to do that communication.
Because – again – the radio spectrum is not A State Secret and absolutely everyone is legally entitled to tune their radio receivers to any frequency they care to choose.
Yeah, Right,
““The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis.”
That’s a textbook example of espionage. If it wasn’t given to Russia for analysis, it wouldn’t be espionage. It would be merely a hobby.
TTG: “Monitoring radio traffic would indeed be prudent for any smuggler.”
The “shadow fleet” is not engaging I “smuggling”, TTG.
They are evading unilaterally-imposed economic sanctions. That’s not at all the same thing, and these ships are doing nothing illegal when they transport oil between a willing seller and an eager buyer.
TTG,
Whose laws against espionage apply in international waters? Finland’s, Russia’s, or the “Rules Based Order’s”?
Fred,
Where espionage takes place doesn’t matter. What matters is whose information is taken, who directs the collection and who receives the information. In this case it appears NATO information was collected and Russia directed the collection and received the information.
TTG,
Almost chocked to death on my Szechuan chicken. They were radio broadcasts. It’s now illegal to monitor radio traffic unless given a permission slip by the broadcaster? That’s hilarious.
Fred,
“The transmitting and receiving devices were used to record all radio frequencies, and upon reaching Russia were offloaded for analysis,” the outlet added. “They were monitoring all NATO naval ships and aircraft. They had all details on them. They were just matching their frequencies.”
The collection equipment, reportedly quite high power, was conducting electronic surveillance much like any other sophisticated surveillance platform, much like US ships and aircraft conducting signals intelligence on Russia. Trying to appear as an innocent, though sanctions busting, merchant ship makes it a clandestine collection platform. If the Eagle S was captured with that signal equipment along with collected signals, the crew could have been charged with espionage. Since the Finns say no such equipment was aboard, no espionage charges.
TTG: “Trying to appear as an innocent, though sanctions busting, merchant ship makes it a clandestine collection platform. ”
Complete and utter nonsense.
Nobody – not the Russians, not you, nor I – are under any obligation to inform anyone of what radio receiving equipment we install anywhere, at any time, nor for any purpose.
These are radio BROADCASTS. Everyone and anyone is free to listen in on them and record them for any purpose whatsoever.
TTG: “If the Eagle S was captured with that signal equipment along with collected signals, the crew could have been charged with espionage. ”
Again, utter and complete nonsense. Nobody is ever going to be convicted of “espionage” for listening in and recording something that is BROADCAST into the airwaves.
Once more, yet again, if NATO doesn’t want its communications to be listened to then it shouldn’t BROADCAST those communications.
TTG: “Since the Finns say no such equipment was aboard, no espionage charges.”
It would have made no difference if such equipment was aboard or not, no espionage charges would have been laid because no crime would have been committed.
I’m sorry, but you are sounding very, very unconvincing with this nonsense.
Yeah, Right,
It’s called signals intelligence, SIGINT, we created a whole government agency to do it. When it’s done under a cover, it’s espionage. Of course the one collecting the SIGINT doesn’t tell the target they’re being listened to and recorded for later analysis. If the covered collector isn’t caught, there is no arrest for espionage. As a HUMINT collector I always operating under cover. I was never caught nor arrested for espionage. If I was ever caught by the target of my collection, the result would have been different. If the Eagle S was caught collecting their SIGINT, the result would have been different for them as well.
leith: “No, a more correct term is sabotage”
I disagree. Sabotage has a purpose, vandalism is destruction for the sake of destruction.
Remund me again what purpose is served by dragging a anchor across those cables?
It reeks far more of the Russians just venting their (honestly, understandable) annoyance at the yapping of the Battle-Poodles in the Baltic.
Destruction for the sake of it, which is “vandalism”, not “sabotage”.
Yeah, Right,
The purpose was to cut a power transmission cable between two NATO countries. This time the act of anchor dragging was observed which gave the Finns cause for seizure of the vessel. It was sabotage along with other recent cable cuttings. The Finns used the vandalism charge because that’s how the law was written.
TTG: “The purpose was to cut a power transmission cable between two NATO countries.”
You are simply describing the act itself, TTG, not describing its purpose.
I can equally claim that the “purpose” of setting fire to a sleeping woman on a subway train means that the man was “sabotaging” that woman’s life.
But in reality that crime was purposeless: the man did it because he felt compelled to do it, not because it served some purpose.
I would argue the same here: cutting that power cable served no “purpose”, it simply represented the Russians lashing out at a Baltic state that was annoying its much bigger neighbour.
Vandalism, in a word.
Yeah, Right,
So I guess blowing the Nord Stream 2 was also purposeless, a meaningless act of vandalism?
Back at ya’ : blowing up Nord Stream was the *act*, it was not the *purpose*.
The *purpose* was obvious: to remove a temptation for Scholz to break ranks with the rest of “the west” and resume gas deliveries from Russia.
Now, once more, what *purpose* is served by having a Russian ship drag its anchor across those cables?
Just because you CAN do something does not mean that doing so is a PURPOSEFUL act.
I mean, look at all the neocon acts of bastardry that has taken place around the world over the last four decades, whereso much was simply bloody-minded stupidity.
Yeah, Right,
Cutting that particular power cable is an effort to make it more difficult for Estonia to fully disconnect from the Russian power grid. It makes perfect sense from a Russian point of view.
Sure many neocon acts seem like pure stupidity to much of the world, but they made perfect sense to the neocons. It’s much like Russia’s continued bombing of Ukrainian apartment buildings appear to be senseless acts of stupidity and barbarity to much of the world, but it clearly makes perfect strategic sense to the Kremlin.
YR –
This was not venting nor was it destruction for the sake of it. This was a scheme by Putin and his FSB AKA the NewKGB to stop Estonia from disconnecting with the Russian electricity grid, scheduled for February. It had the added benefit of cutting two data cables thereby handicapping communications between two NATO countries.
Utter nonsense, leith
https://news.err.ee/1609535875/elering-estonia-ready-to-disconnect-from-russian-electricity-grid-by-february
“The Baltic countries will be able to operate as “island states” from next year even if electricity cables connecting them to the rest of Europe are cut.”
“In the long term, more power plants will be needed for the system in any case, new ones especially. At the moment, there are enough old power stations, the Baltic countries can actually manage without external connections. Obviously, it will be tight and may create constraints, but we could manage,”
I can well believe that the Russians have done this out of some sense of spite. Out of a sense of annoyance at the Baltic states for being annoying little pratts.
Sure, but that is vandalism.
But there is no way on Planet Earth that Russia can stop that disconnection taking place in February. That’s happening no matter how many anchor chains the Russians drag along the sea bed.
I condemn the Independent nation of Cook Islands, all 15,000 people therein, for flagging this “Russian LINKED” vessel. How dare such a proud nation, (how long have they been independent?) whose citizens oh look ‘just happen’ to be citizens of New Zealand also. (Don’t ask if this effectively gives New Zealand two votes at the UN.) let “Russians” use their flag. I won’t ask what Cook Islands got in exchange.
“The source, who declined to be identified …” Anonymous! (Not like the impeachment ‘whistle blower’ at all) “supplied at least 60 confidential documents … in June”
Oh, Anonymous supplied documents! Huray! “These documents, and others…”
WOW other documents too!
” were verified as genuine at the time.”
Which ones, the Anonymous supplied documents or the OTHER documents?
“At the time” So verified in June, but NOT verified now? Let’s not ask Michelle Wiese Bockmann. Why?
” around midday, December 25, Finland’s police said.”
But but but June is 6 months prior to December. What happened in between?
“The source has since provided additional information, telling Lloyd’s List that an unauthorised person, who was not a seafarer, had been identified on board Eagle S.”
Annonymous said so! Unknown person reported by an ‘anonymous’ person. How convenient. It really does get better. Laptops and keyboards and even Indians. (But no feathers I assume) Oh my, what to do, what to do?
Close the Balic! Sieze the Ships! (not the ones transporting people illegally to the UK no no not those) NATO and I mean NATO not the USN, no, no NATO! Take action. Just remember ” the Law of the Sea and the right of innocent passage” might bite you in the ass; and someone else might take 10 minutes to read that article in the Main Stream shipping press and see the glaringly obvious and ask “who” “when” “why” and come to a to the conclusion that this is a great tale.
A tale told by anonymous, full of rumor and innuendo, signifying “Russia Did It”. Just like the UK has been saying all along. Russia Russia Russia
“Lloyd’s is the registered trademark of the Society Incorporated by the Lloyd’s Act 1871 by the name of Lloyd’s.”
No UK connections there. Or in New Zealand. Or the Cook Islands. Or MIwhatever#.
Fred –
You’re off by ~140 years. Lloyd’s List has been providing shipping news since 1734. You don’t have that kind of longevity by publishing rumor and innuendo. And if they want to protect their anonymous source so be it. You or Putin or the Cook Islands can always take them to court to divulge his name.
Leith,
you can go the website TTG linked to what I quoted there as it appeared a couple hours ago. As to the rest of your comment, how long has the NYT been around? The term “Russia Russia Russia” that is now in common usage refers to what, exactly? Glad to know I’m over target with pointing out obvious questions, which the reporter wasn’t asking.
Fred –
The ship does not belong to the Cook Islands. Neither the Captain nor the crew are Cook Islanders. The Captain is from Georgia the country, parts of which are occupied by Russia. Surely an old salt like you knows what a ‘Flag of Convenience’ is. American bootleggers started that whole shebang during prohibition and now over half the worlds commercial tonnage fly them. Ownership is listed as an Indian company based supposedly in the UAE. But there’s undoubtedly several physical & digital layers hiding the real head honcho.
Lloyd’s List publishes for the shipping industry and their insurers. Big difference between them and the NYT prints OpEds as well as news and BTW great crosswords.
You’re nowhere near the target, maybe someone used a jammer or spoofer on your GPS.
Leith,
Flags of Convenience started long before the early feminists forced prohibition down U.S. throats. It is a way to avoid corporate taxes, regulations of multiple kinds, lower wages, and other such responsibilities and yet get the usual nations involved in ensuring ‘freedom of navigation’. Which is highlighted nicely in the first sentences of your response.
It’s also great way for a small group of nations to enforce “sanctions” against one party in a war while financing the other side directly and arming the other side directly too. A least somebody involved has Moral Superiority! (A salient point given the passing of President Malaise Carter)
Can you tell me which nations are forbidden to have citizens serve as ship captains in ships owned by other nations and flagged in yet others? Which law might that be?
Don’t think the former UK possession Cook Islands, whose citizens are also citizens of former UK colony New Zealand, could possibly be influenced by the UK. Do not think “bias” exists at UK based news agency located at the same place the UK based shipping insurance company sharing the name “Lloyds” would exist. It’s not like she’s David Ignatius or they are the WAPO.
Don’t think this “has all the classic earmarks of a” MI6 false flag operation. Think only Russia Russia Russia, and enjoy your crossword.
And don’t for a moment think anyone in Yemen reads Lloyds List and tracks shipping in the Red Sea. What time does the La Paloma arrive? Come on Man! That’s the stuff dreams are made of…… Don’t think that, this is Yemen, Houthis! Think the Russia Russia Russia gaslighting you’ve been getting out of State and DOD and your own 5 eyes all these years.
Fred –
So you’re manufacturing a social media false flag event right now as we speak. Poor little Vladimir, so misunderstood by all except you and a few other magats and tulsifians. Its mo better than any script that Hollywood could manage.
LOL disagreement with an article in the ancient press is social media false flagging.
Clown world is getting desperate.
Source of news and news itself being evaluated separately? Can’t do that anymore. Slava Slava Ukraine and all. Disagreement with US policy makes you Putin’s puppet, or gives u cooties or something.
Fred –
Source of news and news itself being evaluated separately? Can’t do that anymore. Slava Slava Ukraine and all. Disagreement with US policy makes you Putin’s puppet, or gives u cooties or something.
The correct term for a puppet of Putin is “Vatnik”. Wear it proudly.
And there’s nothing wrong with cooties. I’m a full fledged member of the VFW’s Military Order of the Cootie. As was my father and grandfather before me; plus Truman and GHWB.
Leith,
“the FBI is opening [] based on an articulable factual basis that reasonably indicates that President Donald J. Trump may be or has been, wittingly or unwittingly, involved in activities for or on behalf of the Government of the Russian Federation”
That’s our FBI at work. Amazing what a FOIA and a few years manages to dredge up.
Hey leith,
Who declared independence from the USSR first – Georgia or South Ossetia?
I’d have to look it up James, but I assume it was a rhetorical question and you already know the answer. Don’t bother telling me though.
Not sure what you are driving at? Was it my pointing out to Fred that the captain of the latest cable-cutting ship is Georgian?
Leith,
Yes – it was the “… Georgia the country, parts of which are occupied by Russia” bit that I was being smart-alecky about. South Ossetia actually declared independence well before Georgia did so I was going belabor the question of whether countries can declare other countries as being part of them and ask why Georgia gets to declare its independence and but other parts of the USSR cannot legitimately do so.
What can I say – I like arguing with smart people who I disagree with. People who agree with me or who are not smart are boring to me.
If the Left were more like Jimmy Carter, the world would be a better place. But if Jimmy Carter had been more conservative… I dunno if things would have been better. Carter’s flaws in governance were flaws of the man, not ideology. He won the Presidency because he was a compelling outsider. But once he became an insider (i.e., POTUS), his ideas didn’t work out politically, practically, militarily. He didn’t adapt. Most intelligent and worst President ever.
SALT II, Camp David Accords, DOE, what’s not to like? Best of all was his appointment of Paul Volcker as Chairman of the Federal Reserve who ended high inflation rates, but unfortunately for Jimmy it took a bit too long and Ronnie Raygun got the credit. He’d have been a two term prez if Ronnie (and Teddy) hadn’t stabbed him in the back.
I’m ashamed now to say that in my misguided youth I voted against him. But he since proved me wrong.
I’ve got Old Glory at half staff for the next 30 days. And I’ll put a little extra in the kitty next month to go to Habitat for Humanity. Guy was a hell of a good carpenter in his old age.
Jimmy Carter is as underestimated as Reagan is overestimated. He was also the last president to be fiscally sane. His story is also a very American story. My wife met him a few times, since he graduated from the Naval Academy in the same class as her late husband. As far as the worst president ever, we already know who that is and now he will pile it on.
Lars,
He’s only got 3 weeks left to do so. Or have his staff do so.
I am not entirely sure what you are referring to, but one major difference between Jimmy and Donny is that the former didn’t lie and the latter can’t ever tell the truth. Even when he claims that he is.
Lars,
Carter gave legitimacy to the election of Chavez, and his successor in Venezuela. Resulting in the destruction of the society. But he didn’t “lie”. He just had atrocious judgement, just like when he was president. Biden though, he’s as sharp as ever. Inflation is transitory, and all the rest. Trump, still a bore that gets under other millionaire’s skins.
Fred,
“Carter gave legitimacy to the election of Chavez, and his successor in Venezuela. Resulting in the destruction of the society”
Now you sound like a neocon. Since the election of Chavez, Venezuela has been a socialist country. So we (the West) have been sanctioning them, took their gold, plotting countless regime changes. That’s what’s destroying their society.
Lucky for them that we cannot take their oil.
TonyL,
LOL tell that to the Venezuelans jailed by Chavez long before we sanctioned that country. Fortunate for the dictators they have useful democrats here.
Fred, thanks mainly to several Repub administrations, US actions aiding Central American dictators (especially in Guatemala) in suppressing labor movements has brought about significant blowback
Fred,
I was in Venezuela when Chavez was in power, and everyone I talked to said “Chavez isn’t perfect but he is DEFINITELY better than the alternative.”
Unlike Colombia, there were no 12 year old girls selling their bodies in the streets. Unlike Guatemala, “The government murders the people” was not spray painted all over the place.
I will defend Chavez but Maduro has been a disaster for Venezuela and the sooner he goes the better for the Venezuelan people.
Lars –
Trump sells bibles. Jimmy followed the bible.
Trump misappropriated (i.e. stole) charity funds. Jimmy helped build homes for those without shelter.
Trump cheated on all three of his wives. Jimmy was faithful to his wife of 77 years: https://bsky.app/profile/malloy.rocks/post/3leidbrwtkk2g
I saw a funny cartoon the other day. Jimmy and Rosalynn were repainting the Pearly Gates.