Well, its time to piss some more people off. I listened to all the usual hot air today. This was dominated by intra-Black verbal wars over the extent of the unforgivable nature of White guilt, not Zimmerman's supposed guilt, but White guilt.
My favorite was a program hosted by a bautiful cafe au lait woman professor from Princeton. She is committed to the "Tawana" Al Sharpton view of history and likes to talk endlessy of "oppression" whether it be actual oppression or notional oppression. She looks to me to be about 1/8th Black but somehow never speaks of her White ancestors as opposed to Professor Skip Gates who glories in his mixed ancestry.
On FNS, a somewhat Black congresswoman who is usually a pillar of rationality flew into a rage aginst a Black neurosurgeon interviewed at his Sun Valley vacation home. He had the temerity to opine that "if you think people love you then all they do is seen as loving, but if you think they hate you, all they do is seen as hateful." "Why don't we stop yelling at each other?" he asked. This pissed the congresswoman off so much that she started yelling, interrupting him and telling him that he was a "child of privilege" even though he assured her that he was raised in an inner city environment. She forgot the phrase "Uncle Tom."
And then there was the president's speech on Friday. I am convinced that most Americans do not mind having a president who happens to be Black. I do not. I voted for this one twice faute de mieux. I would have prefered to vote Republican but… Unfortunately for race relations "progress," Obama spoke on Friday as a spokesman for African Americans even though he has not a drop of African American blood in him. I do not think most Americans want a spokesman for Black America as president. They want someone they can identify with and Obama on Friday was not that.
IMO the Democrats will suffer from a backlash against all this in 2014. pl
I disagree. Travon Martin will be forgotten by all American voters in 2014 except for a few “ethnic entrepreneurs”.(I really love that description. Whoever made it up needs to copyright it).
Saw the same interview on FNC and had
a similiar reaction. It does not fit the
narrative of the aggreived parties. Chris
Wallace tried to shift the conversation to
statistical realities of black on black
murders and neither party would acknowledge
their relavancy. Until the ethiic steppin-manures
admit this factual representation the dialogue
of race will continually hit the wall.
i don’t know how you do it. Most of these media shows are in the perpetual outrage business.
The percentage of blackness raises an interesting point. Barack Obama is culturally black, out of choice, even though he is not originally of the African-American community. Melissa Harris-Perry probably identifies better with black culture. The black community generally accepts people like them as authentically “black” in the American sense.
Lastly, I often regret having voted for Obama once, in 2008, but I don’t consider him a stupid person. He wants blacks motivated to vote in 2014 during a midterm election when their numbers are usually lower in turnout. An off-year election when both sides are equally motivated isn’t likely to be a repeat of 2010. If Pat is right I will, of course, give credit to his analysis.
IMO, only an incompetent Republican party would lose the mid-terms and the next presidency.
Obama/Clinton Democrats vs GWB/Reagan Republicans. What’s the real difference in policy and actions? For registered independents like me the lesser evil has not and does not work anymore. We are consigned to unrepresented minority status for the foreseeable future!
Hopefully, when my great-grandchildren are voting adults there will be a party where the founding values and the Constitution are not just rhetoric and platitudes but the basis for sovereignty and governance.
I only voted for him once. “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice . . . . .”
I listened to the President’s speech and then read the text. What I heard is that if you are white, you are racist. From the trial we learned if you are hispanic, you are white – and thus racist. If you are Black, you are a victim; white people made you the way you are and only the Federal Government can make it better.
The president gave the African American community a speech. Meanwhile for those 200,000 or so pensioners in Detroit, many being African American, Mr. Orr, a major Obama fundraisers, is about to gut your pension plan. Does anyone believe Obama has your best interest at heart, truly, by giving a speech and keeping Trayvon on the front page (while your being robbed will be on page 9 – a few months from now)?
For you Liberals, well you can shout your defiance at ‘those people’ and prove your worth one more time by rallying to the President. Meanwhile the lawyer and former Constitutional Law Professor in the Oval Office is still directing the NSA to violate the Fourth Amendment. Remember your outrage Liberals? Do you remember his line in this speech: “You know, when I was in Illinois I passed racial profiling legislation…” Didn’t that data do wonders in training police officers and eliminate all racial profiling in Illinois? Just think what all that NSA data will be able to do once the Executive Branch decides just what the ‘racist’ profile is.
Members of Congress, remember when Clapper and Alexander perjured themselves under oath? Well, they’ll keep on doing as the head of the Executive Branch directs. But think of the campaign contributions the Travon imbroglio will bring in, especially as you keep in mind all the dirty goods the NSA has on you, your relatives and campaign contributors, so discretion being the better part of valor and all we’ll expect you to do – well, just about nothing.
It appears to me that Trayvon Martin is more important to Obama dead than he ever was alive. Justice for Trayvon is the theme of the day; Justice for All? Apparently that went out of fashion along with upholding the Constitution of the Republic. But you are absolutely right, there will be an election year backlash in 2014.
Obama was the better of 2 bad choices both times?
If you could put Israel into a corner for a moment, you might see the huge difference between this inept (thankfully) community organizer playing at President and a successful – and, as it turned out, a good man
Romney is a stiff with the personality of a….very competent capitalist, but he seems to be a genuine person.
Obama is an extension of a teleprompter.
You bet he’s America’s first black President.
On Friday, he declared himself President of black America.
twv
IMO Romnay would have been worse. pl
So the Prez, sequesture and budget cuts be damned, heads for Martha’s Vineyard. I wasn’t aware it was such a hangout for “his people”.
Despite the ravings from the lunatic fringe in the Department of “Justice” the laws throughout the various states covering the idea of “Stand Your Ground” seem to be on a solid footing.
Except in Arizona?, where McCain has announced it maybe should be reconsidered. His dwindling support and relevance even more apparent there.
Romney was not the man for the job, but I could not bring myself to give Obama my vote.
Meanwhile Detroit collapses on itself and things get crazier and crazier.
Sir:
You’ve consistently said that.
Explain?
Get ready for it.
Calling the Republicans “incompetent” is mildly complimentary.
Stupid is more accurate.
Fred
Do you believe the ruling by the state judge saying that the Emergency Manager Orr bankruptcy plan is unconstitutional will have any impact on the Detroit situation ?
TWV
IMO AIPAC and assorted hasbara Cohorts makes it impossible to put Israel in a box – in the context of American Politics & Foreign Policy . Mitt & BiBi were personal friends & corporate raiders together on Wall Street . I am absolutely convinced if we had elected Romney we would now be engaged with our ‘best ally ‘ Israel in ongoing military operations against Iran . And that we would also have a no fly /boots on the ground in Syria . This would be in spite of what both the military /security /intelligence leadership would have advised in both Israel & USA . It would have been ‘Operation Clean Break ” on steriods ..
r whitman: I agree. The economy is slowing again. That is the real risk to the Democrats.
twv. Better that to candidate Romney who openly declared himself the potential President of Israel?
Few things absolutely disqualify someone from government service in my mind. But having a candidate openly declare that our foreign policy will be whatever Netanyahu advises, is clearly one.
twv
I answered your question long ago. http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2012/09/romney-business-and-the-presidency.html
pl
I don’t know what it feels to be black so the fact that a careful-to-timid guy like Obama (IMO anyway) chose to wade in suggests that the pain being felt in the black community over this entire episode is pretty real and pretty raw and needed to be addressed. Maybe it will hurt him politically — he probably has a better idea about that than anyone here does — but he thought it important enough to publicly acknowledge that he shares that pain anyway. I’m giving him points for the courage of his convictions.
r Whitman
Martin will be a footnote to history but the resentment felt by the White blue collar base of the Republicans will be a factor. pl
David Kirkpatrick, Cairo bureau chief for the NYT is on NPR (Fresh Air), arguing that the military ginned up the recent revolt to oust a duly-elected civilian government and democracy. Morsi did everything he could, despite a couple small mistakes, apparently. Egyptians had been whipped into an irrational hysteria against poor Morsi. Military bad, Morsi good, the Islamists never did any of the things they were accused of regarding imposing their religious views on the country.
Objective commercial journalism is a failed experiment.
Given the brutal and painful history of this nation it is perfectly understandable that the ‘black community’ was feeling the way you note. But none of that changes the fact that in many cases, the ‘black community’, and the nation, were fed a load of bullshit, pure bullshit, about this entire tragic episode.
From the decision by the initial DA not to bring charges–to the bringing in of a ‘special prosecutor’ who promptly decided NOT to seek a grand jury indictment (because she thought she could not get it?), to the altered transcript by NBC News, and shown to the nation, insinuating Zimmerman’s was a racist….and all the way up through the trial reporting….lies and false narratives, and more lies and and false narratives, the MSM got this wrong. Dead wrong. And keeps repeating it that way.
Obama had a choice….he could have kept repeating the false narrative, in a soothing and reassuring manner. Or he could have spoke to people like grown ups. All the people. Or he could have remained silent. Like most things he does…he took the easy way out.
‘I could have been Travyon Martin’ indeed. Yes, perhaps you could have Mr President. If you chose to charge at someone, in the dark, and sucker punch the person, and then bang his head in the concrete. If you had done that Mr President, you certainly could have been Travyon. That is what this case was–most likely, so the circumstantial evidence indicates, about.
I grant the President “the courage of HIS convictions), no doubt. I only wish he just had courage. Period. It could have been a ‘teaching moment’, instead of a ‘touching moment’. As understandable as the latter was…it was the former that the nation needed. my two cents, anyway.
I disagree that being African American is a matter of blood. It’s a matter of bearing the mark of an underclass, one that has existed so long it has developed distinct culture. Whether one is a member of that culture or not, when one is stripped of the benefit of the doubt simply because of that mark, one has earned their stripes.
I so agree with you. I’ve always liked the saying concerning not judging until you’ve walked a mile in someone else’s shoes. I also give Obama points for having the courage to say what he feels even though it will be unpopular with some people. If Democrats lose the coming elections because our president had the courage to speak his mind, than so be it, but I hope and yes pray, that Americans are wiser than that.
NancyK
That makes you sound foolish. You’ve never walked a mile in John Wilkes Booth’s shoes. Do you judge him. You need to think clearly about politics. It is not a matter of “good intentions.” pl
Mark Logan
Obama? He has never been oppressed a day in his life. He is the ultimate child of privilege. Fancy school in Hawaii, great school in California followed by Columbia and Harvard, what are you selling? He shares American Black culture? If so that is because he chose to do so. pl
AE,
The Michigan legislature passed a second emergency financial manager law immediately after the voters over turned, via ballot initiative, the first one. I think both the Governor and the EFM are going to try and have the Federal courts overturn, or take precedence over, the state constituion. (not sure of the legal terminology).
I think this is a very bad precident. Both in superceding state constitutions, but in doing so on behalf of corporate entities. The second reason is this will be the same manufactured ‘crisis’ that will be used in an effort to ‘fix’ social security and generate billions in fees and commissions etc for WallStreet.
“How Europe Underdeveloped Africa” by Walter Rodney, 1972, London: Bogle-L’Ouverture Publications
Nancy K:
Are you another one of those “guilty” white people?
Feeling guilt for someone else’s action – over which you have no control.
As far as Obama, his delivery is staged to be “thoughtful” to his sycophantic followers.
“Thoughtful” would not tell whites (in so many words): “Pay up and shut up….and, BTW, apologize to all those young black felons who are soooo.. misunderstood.”
“It’s a matter of bearing the mark of an underclass” You mean underclass like ‘poor white trash’? Or don’t they count? I did my time with that label, thank you very much. Apparently Obama can’t feel my pain of growing up poor, of having to save ½ my income for the better part of a decade to pay for college after I left active duty because I sure wasn’t getting any affirmative action help, because I was the wrong color – then and now. Spare me the guilt trip.
More racism in America, courtesy of the NYT. Apparently they couldn’t find a single person born in the South who went to college and stayed to teach in a small town – in the South. No surprise there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/22/us/down-in-the-delta-outsiders-who-arrived-to-teach-now-find-a-home.html?hp&_r=0
Perhaps the NYT could do a nice article on which colleges “Teach for America” does NOT recruit at and ask them why?
Sir,
I’m of the opinion he doesn’t have to share black culture to speak with the authority of personal experience on this. “Whether or not”.
I view the fundamental issue is the lack of trust the black community has in law enforcement, and the benefit of the doubt is the key ingredient of our laws, and when one doesn’t have it one is extremely vulnerable. So I actually considered his speech to be near pitch-perfect. He doesn’t call for outrage, he points to the fact this issue will be a matter of generations. IMO, a huge improvement from Jesse, Al, and so many others.
You had me until the third paragraph. I disagree strongly from that point on.
A presidential lecture that this tragedy would never have happened if Trayvon M hadn’t “chosen” to “sucker punch the person, and then bang his head in the concrete” is not a teachable moment. It would instead have rightly been cause for national outrage for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is that George Z got acquitted because there were no witnesses, and so nobody really knows who initiated what.
mark logan
What I object to about his talk was the total lack of any sort of balance in it all. IMO the chief executive of the US should not speak as the representative of any faction or group. He said something about “a more perfect union.” first of all this phrase from the preamble to the Constitution referred to the goal of formation of a better functioning government rather than a utopian state. Second, in employing this cant which is always a favorite of people like Al Sharpton and company he aligned himself with the idea that white people need to learn to behave themselves better. This, in spite of the obvious fact that Zimmerman was fairly tried and acquitted, but that’s not good enough. The trial verdict is used by the African-American “community” as a rallying cry for agitation against white people in general. Obama sided with that on Friday. His party will pay a price. pl
The African- American community experiences a lot of things through a different prism than you or I for a lot of reasons, even the ones who graduate from Harvard law. Not sure why your overall comment is so overly nasty or where the ‘white guilt” accusation comes from. I read Obama’s whole speech. I have no idea where you’re comment about white people paying up, or shutting up comes from either, unless you’re the person suffering from “white guilt.”
It has been said that the overarching crime of the Western world is to give people a rotten education and then blame them for their resulting poverty and crime. It would appear that this crime is still prevalent in America, notwithstanding the discovery and presentation of at least one Black Neurosurgeon on TV. Treyvon Martins crime was “walking while black” and how it is possible for a self appointed and armed Zimmerman to make it his business to the point of killing Martin and escape punishment is beyond me.
Yes, of course there are “ethnic entrepreneurs”, but that doesn’t change the picture; the deck is stacked against you from birth if you are black as study after study has found. Perhaps the most poignant example of this, at least to me, was the prosecution of a black woman for “stealing education” for her son by falsifying her address in an attempt to get him to a better school, which begs the question of why anyone, even a Republican, thinks it is a good idea to institutionalise poverty by tieing local school investment to local prosperity or the lack of it.
At this point, defenders of the status quo usually trot out the “choice” argument, trying to suggest that a black child “chooses” to be a drug dealer or layabout instead of doing the hard work necessary to become, say, a neurosurgeon. This of course neglects the fact that “informed” choice is required and that there are precious few successful black role models in inner city neighbourhoods after you discard the pimps and drug dealers.
I do not have a ready made solution to your problem apart from massive and protracted investment in good public education, but that is unlikely to occur given the general vilification of public school teachers and the attentions of “education entrepreneurs” with their quick fix solutions and fads.
I beg to differ–I think the speech was deliberately “less than presidential” and for a good reason: he was speaking more as a person than the Chief Executive. I think that was appropriate, because he is not the “black President” but rather the he is the President who is also uniquely a member of a group with a very special history. That’s a tough role.
What he offered was a series of common observations which few really dispute–these are: there is residual white racism (that’s news to some maybe); black people detect it; it is hard to distinguish residual racism from legitmate fear engendered by the fact that there is a disproportionate amount of criminality in the black community; white people need to be sensitive to the fact that black people don’t have any simple way to know what is motivating a particular reaction and black people need to recognize and deal with those things that are generic to the black community. That’s more or less what I heard.
Neither he nor Holder offered anything substantive to the ethnic entrepreneurs. All things considered, what more do you expect? These are abiding and largely intractable problems that aren’t particularly susceptible to “national leadership” of any type, so why measure the speech against a standard that doesn’t exist?
You might say of it that: “it could have been worse” and that’s “as good as it gets” –these days.
Col Lang-
A very thoughtful post/thread sir.
Mark Logan-
“It’s a matter of bearing the mark of an underclass, one that has existed so long it has developed distinct culture.”
That’s interesting. How would you rephrase this concept?
Walrus
Where I live we spend vast amounts of local (not state or federal) money on public education, public housing, and social services. We just finished building a new high school for 100 million dollars. Many of our schools are overwhelmingly inhabited by minority students and are often taught by Black teachers. Some of our schools are the worst in the state by test. the state is taking control of one of them. We have a Black mayor, a Black city manager, a Black city attorney and a Black Chief of police. This is a medium sized city (120,000) ten miles from Washington. The population is about 22% Black. Don’t you think that at some point people should take responsibility for their own failures as well as the achievements of presidents, professors, doctors, etc? pl
Just like you and Obama, I think the jury got it right. But I didn’t feel like he was exclusively singling out my ethnic group for a lecture, I felt like, in the wake of the verdict, he was once again more or less forced into trying to address the US racial divide.
I also have to disagree strongly that the acquittal is being used as an anti-white rallying cry. I live on First Ave in NYC and witnessed the massive post-acquittal march myself. That march was not exclusively black by any means. There were a lot of whites, young and old.
Amame
I didn’t hear an endorsement of the Zimmerman verdict in what Obama said. pl
Did you vote for Bush the Second twice?
COL,
If the population is only 22% black then why are the schools overwhelmingly inhabited with minority students? Do whites send their kids to different schools?
NancyK
If you are talking to me, I voted him the first time because he promised s non-interventionist foreign policy. In 2004 I could not vote for him or the traitor Kerry. pl
Richard Armstrong
Yes. White, Black and other people who can afford it send their children to a variety of private schools; Catholic, Episcopal and other. there is a significant population of minority scholarship students in all these places. The city government has decided to tear down and rebuild the worst school in the state, Jefferson-Houston. One can only ponder the motivation and hope for FBI attention. pl
Obama’s exact words on the verdict:
“The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there are going to be a lot of arguments about the legal — legal issues in the case. I’ll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues.
The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a — in a case such as this, reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury’s spoken, that’s how our system works.”
“But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling…”
My own experience with these issues in the education was when my children, 1.5 year apart, were in a pretty good district for public grade school. It was mostly the children of college prof.s, young professionals and upper level blue collar. Great experience.
However, the middle school was a different story. There was some program implemented about the time my son, the elder of the two, was entering – it wasn’t called “busing”, yet it was busing in all but name. The middle school had become chock full of minorities (blacks and Hispanics) from the less privileged side of town.
This is when my son finally came to appreciate my efforts to teach him how to fight.
There was little to no teaching. It was, at best, baby sitting and at worst, trying to keep a lid on the burgeoning gang bangers like prison guards.
Most of the children that had started in the happy grade school were pulled out to attend private schools, or otherwise found ways to enroll at better public schools in districts without the busing (or whatever it was called). We eventually pulled our children out and I had purchased a house far from that neighborhood to make it happen.
I delved into the problem partly because I was pissed off and partly out of curiosity. I talked to teachers, social workers, the PTA, a friend on planning zoning who had connections and could ask around. It seems, at bottom, it was that the children who had been bussed in came from homes that just didn’t value education. On top of that, the home lives were a shambles. Lots of single mothers with Dad no where to be found. Parents in prison. Drugs/alcohol. Gang culture. The whole nine yards.
These people are horses that are led to the trough of education and opportunity, yet will not drink. They are fundamentally broken. Throwing more money at it won’t fixed it, IMO.
That’s a sorry conclusion and a lot of people don’t want to hear. However, it’s been two or three generations past the civil rights movement and from what I can see, things are getting worse, on whole, as opposed to better and despite some notable successes.
A brief anecdote, my friend Aleshia went back home a few weeks ago for a short visit. She’s black and she grew up in a black community. Apparently several of her childhood friends made fun of her for ‘acting white.’ Aleshia graduated with honors from the local university and teaches elementary school now. The comment drove her crazy, in her eyes people in the community condemn her for pursuing an education and for sounding polished.
I think it’s yet another example of why poverty is such a difficult issue, and why some communities struggle so much. In this case her friends were unwilling to sacrifice what he saw as their culture, even if it meant breaking out of the poverty cycle. To do so would be a betrayal of who they were.
The acquittal is certainly not being used as an anti-white rallying cry. No, of course not. In a Florida jury room the people of Florida had the quintessential “12 Angry Men”. On the streets of NYC you have thousands who ‘know better’.
I have no doubt that “teachable moment” would have caused national outrage. But that is what the evidence, such as it is, hints, repeat, hints, at what happened. And that should have been noted…it was not SIMPLY, repeat, SIMPLY, because Martin “was black” that this event happen. There is SOME evidence to show his (Martin’s) actions brought the events about. I’m sorry if that is painful. I’m sorry if that–saying it out loud- causes outrage. I’m truly sorry…but that seems to be what the evidence indicates. Circumstantial as it is. There WERE witnesses. There was evidence that Z suffered injuries to the nose and back of his head. There was evidence presented that the only injury Martin exhibited, other than the fatal wound, was his knuckle was scraped…consistent with landing a punch. There was eyewitness testimony that ‘Martin was on top in the struggle’…
Is this dispostive? No. Of course not. But saying that “that could have been me” as if there was nothing that Martin did, or may have done, other than ‘being black’ is simply false. It is false. That narrative, as the President well knew, as he was saying it, lecturing us about it, was at a minimum, contested. And as President he should have–indeed, he had a duty, to note it. Otherwise…he was speaking to one group of citizens only. I repeat…he certainly had the courage of HIS convictions…..I further repeat, I wish he simply had courage. To speak about complexity. Not to simply rehash, however moving, and valid, history. History only goes so far, and not an inch further, in speculating what happened that night.
Col.
His speech will cost him almost no votes in 2014. Why? He can’t lose votes of people who were not going to vote for him any way.
Sir,
Generally in agreement, I don’t perceive the cry for agitation in Obama’s words myself as yet, but will think that over some more. But to answer a previous question more precisely: I’m selling an expanded definition of African American.
The absurdity of the outrage is seen by Holder, Jealous of the NAACP, Sharpton, many black leaders and white pundits claiming Stand Your Ground is a racist law that gives whites the legal right to hunt blacks. Blacks are 40 times more likely to murder a white than the other way around. The Atlanta Constitution-Journal had an article earlier this week (can’t find the link) that shows the Florida law has been used successfully twice as much for a defense by blacks than whites, being found not guilty of murder respectively 56 and 53 % of the time.
Portland has a small black population but some of the schools which have the highest percentage of blacks and hispanics are the poorest performer, though they receive as much money per student than every other school. I know people who taught in the worst schools and they spent most of their time dealing with bad behavior and less on teaching. More the prison guard than a teacher. Good students are harassed and physically abused for acting “white.” The problem is poor parenting–if there is any–peer pressure and the glorification of thug culture. Some of these kids are unteachable and will always be a menace to society. I feel sorry for the good people–parents and children–who are stuck in these low income areas and their schools. They pay the highest price.
A letter to the editor was published in the San Diego paper, which is named either the “Union Tribune” or, more recently, the “U-T” which is displayed on its masthead. The letter referenced the OJ Simpson verdict and said, “I do not recall any rioting or protests after that decision.”
Those who do not remember history, and our citizenry famously does not, are doomed to repeat it.
tigershark
That is not the issue. what will hurt the Democrats will be the people who have not voted recently. pl
Colonel,
Tony Blair and Bill Clinton got elected by pushing ideas that staff work had identified as issues that swing voters were concerned about, worthwhile or not, practical or not, but they would vote for. Elections are won by pushing the voters’ buttons. Karl Rove re-elected Bush II by getting the conservative core out. 21st Century Politics has become a mishmash of advancing ethnic and cultural issues from gay marriage to stand by your gun to get a majority of the voting blocks out for their candidate. Anything to avoid debating the real issue that government has stopped working. From privatization of education to deregulation of finance and from fracking for gas to our endless wars, government policies chosen are what make the most money for the corporations not what is best for the American people.
The next election cycle will be a circus. The Republicans will charge that Obama Administration with increasing the middle age suicide rate by 28% while at the same time they vote to end the Food Stamp Program, to gut Detroit and to furlough government workers.
Ed, you would have been totally happy with Zimmerman getting his head bashed in because then you and other liberals wouldn’t have to watch the racial fantasy you’ve constructed in your head vanish like spun sugar in hot coffee.
Sir, agreed that there will be an impact from voters dusting off their registration cards to go against the Dem.s in the next election, but I also think there will be a significant number of voters switching sides from Dem. to Rep. I will most definitely be one of them.
Like you, I cast a ballot for O on non-interventionalist promises. I got lied to. Since nonsensical costly interventions seem to be de rigueur regardless of party or promises, I might as well vote for someone who better represents me and my interests domestically. I think there are a lot of folks thinking like me – at least enough to make a big enough difference on the margins to swing an election in favor of the Rep.s
Dem.s know this. They will attempt to counter by offering a new kind of minority – a variation on the successful O theme – this time a woman. Probably Hillary. Red meat for the “progressive”/activist base.
IMO, the strategy will fail by increasing the blow back effect above whatever is gained. In other words a net loss of votes.
There are 435 members of congress up for reelection. Some of them should be worried. Then there are all those state legislatures and governors, too.
I am white, and I’m probably guilty of many things, but having white guilt because of Martin’s death or the lives of African American’s in the UA is not one of them. I didn’t realize that Martin was a felon, do you know something the rest of us didn’t.
What is politics a matter of? Through out history every side has thought they were right and the other wrong or discriminated against or unfaired against. Black vs white, Hindu vs Muslin, Jew vs Muslim, North vs South and on and on. As for being foolish, I plead guilty on so many levels. That is one reason that I read your site because I know I don’t know the things you do. God, I almost sound like Rumsfeld “We know what we don’t know.” I want my eyes and my mind to be opened to new ways of thinking and looking at the world and history in a new light.
As for John Wilkes Booth, I haven’t ever judged him but not because I’m a good person, I just never thought of it. My family history is neither North or South, most came from California, Oklahoma and Kansas.
Apparently you missed my point. It wasn’t about the march or whether the marchers ‘know better’ or not, it was exclusively about the ethnic makeup of the march. And a new Pew poll also suggests that African Americans are not the only ethnic group upset/angry about the acquittal. Only half of whites said they were satisfied with the verdict.
I’ve gotta say, that is about the weirdest response to what I wrote that I could have imagined.
And racial fantasies? Ha ha, that’s a good one too. I lived on the Lower East Side on Ludlow Street between Rivington and Delancy in 1979 and 1980.
Col., even if the white blue collar vote is re-energized for the republicans in 2014, I doubt it would be enough to get them enough seats to override a presidential veto. therefore, the republican-controlled congress will have to pass laws that are amenable enough to democrats or the president; I could see some immigration reform passed that would create a guest worker program for low-skilled workers and/or an increase in the number of h1b visas (I think that it was they are called) for the hi-techs. either way, palin will be able to use this against the republicans in 2016 as taking jobs away from americans and washington obeying their corporate masters. could even inspire her to create the 3rd party she’s always threatening.
or the congress can do nothing and the democrats could use that to claim republicans don’t know how to govern.
interesting to note what Boehner said on the sunday newsies about judging congress on how many laws they repeal not pass. his comment was widely reported yet I cannot find a news story to find out how many laws they have repealed. wonkette (I know) had a post that there have only been two laws repealed.
I voted for bush jr. for the same reason; last time I voted for either major party.
I think, years and years from now, historians will judge bush sr. as one of the 20th centuries best president. unfortunate he was not given another 4 years; I believe he would have done a better job of transitioning our military after the cold war.
You say: “there was nothing that Martin did, or may have done, other than ‘being black’ is simply false. It is false.”
I’m not certain that you are wrong. Or that you’re right either. I don’t know George Z. But part of the Obama speech tries to explain to you and me why the African American Experience might lead African Americans to think the exact opposite of what you claim. I saw a surprising number of kids wearing hooded shirts and sweatshirts in the post-acquittal march, despite the heat. I think that for a number of them, it was ALL about that, not the verdict.
When I was in my 20s, I got drunk with a black actor friend who started to unload about the racial crap he was forced to go thru daily, and instead of listening, I called bullshit saying that it wasn’t the 1960s any more. He shut up about it and we went on to something else. I saw it myself though, at least once. Around the same time I witnessed a cab stop for a black kid with dreads. As the kid went to get in, the cab jolted ahead, then took off and the driver flipped him the finger out the window and shouted something. How does that feel? I don’t know and I’m not sure I can even imagine, but I’m older now and hopefully smarter, so I’m gonna try to listen and pay better attention.
Apparently you missed my point that the people of NYC are not residents of the State of Florida. White New Yorkers didn’t like the jury verdict in another state? They are welcome to move to Sanford or even Miami Gardens. They might learn something if they do.
No one: The “red meat” issue is not going to work for the Democrats. Five years ago, American expatriate David Seaton tried to dampen progessive enthusiasm for Obama by forecasting that “the One” would be a severe disappointment. Obama, Seaton reasoned, was a Lightning Rod to deflect people from asking structural questions about American goverance. Wall Street panicked and they needed a “new” product to sell. Obama seemed like that product, vague enough, airy enough to float whatever meaning each voter affixed to him.
I voted for the man twice. Once, with enthusiam. Then, with no feeling at all. His opponent the first time was not emotionally fit to be President. The second time because Romney lacked seriousness. After the Iraq War, any candidate who associates with Neo-Cons is, frankly, lacking in seriousness, in judgment.
But the Democratic base, to which I belong, is now utterly dispirited. We will not go to the polls to fulfill the ambitions of the Clinton family. We will only go to the polls to block another Romney. To my mind, this is the Republican party’s opportunity.
Col: We all accept verdicts. Respecting them, is another mater. I accepted both verdicts in the OJ Simpson saga. I respected only the second.
Like I said to another poster, I’m not sure the response to the verdict was entirely about the verdict in that a lot of the marchers were wearing hooded sweatshirts. Which says to me that a lot of them think nothing would have happened if Trayvon M had been a white kid in a hooded sweatshirt walking in the rain. Nobody can claim to be able to crawl into George Z’s head to know for sure if that’s the case, but I’m not sure I can blame them for thinking that.
Agreed, Matthew. That’s pretty much what I was saying. Dem.s will try red meat, but it won’t work – **provided the Rep.s float someone that is neither batsh!t insane (i.e. a McCain) nor a stiff anti-American worker super capitalist with ambitions to wage war for Zionists (i.e. a Romney) nor a ridiculous ignoramus clown (i.e. a Sarah Pallin)**.
The Dem.s might back Cuomo. This would be wonderful because he would turn off everyone outside of the coastal fantasy islands.
Of course the Rep.s usually don’t fail to live down to my lowest expectations. So who knows.
Any Ronald Reagans out there?
There will be plenty enough time and issues and policy debate between the Republican takeover of the US Senate in January 2015 and the November elections in 2016 for ALL WHO HAVE ANY INTEREST TO FIND REASONS TO VOTE FOR OR AGAINST REPUBLICANS AND DEMS. The outcome will depend in part on the candidates not the past.
The Martin speech by Obama was merely an effort to secure for him the only real possibility of being in the history books as a success and that is his two elections to the Presidency. Those elections will be dissected for various reasons the rest of the century. My only question will be why did he fail so miserably?
Cuomo would not escape the primaries as he’s just another neo-liberal creature of Wall Street. The last thing the Democrats need is a white Obama who is overtly hostile to labor and even more willing to cut SS and Medicare.
I think you guys are underestimating the power of red meat. Identity politics is practiced, by both sides, because it works. The goal is to motivate your base voters, win the center, and demoralize enough of the disinterested and the opposition in order to convince them to sit the election out.
So you’re willfully ignorant instead of blissfully ignorant? I’m not sure if that’s something I’d be so proud of announcing.
The cognitive dissonance between what happened with the Zimmer Man and what liberals and their black allies believe is like something out of a Tom Wolfe novel. If the repercussions weren’t so serious, it’d be amusing.
All the more reason for the President not to side with those who are making a point of inflaming passions.
To the residents of NYC its alright to profile as long as your billionaire crime fighting mayor Mike Bloomberg, who said that whites get profiled waaaay too much as it is.
This tidbit immediately vanished down the memory hole, of course. Diversity is for the proles, dontchaknow.
Obamas legacy is already assured. From an historians point of view 20 years from now, he took over a dispirited country that was failing financially and resurrected it, closed down two losing foreign wars, passed Obamacare which will be with us for the next 50 years, passed the Dodd-Frank financial regulation bill, revitalized GM and Chrysler, did not commit US troops to anymore stupid foreign wars and won a resounding reelection against a pretty good Republican with a mediocre economy in the background. Historians will mention him in the same vein as FDR if he does not screw up in the next 3 years.
Take the Martin speech for what it really was: A black man expressing black man thoughts personally, not any great political motivation.
Tyler: Read “The Plutocrats” by Chrystia Freeland and then you will really feel the Manhattans’ pain. It’s tough only making $5 to $10 million per year.
I believe folks in NYC just need to accept that other people have other life experiences. NYC has 8 million or so people in 8 square miles, more or less. That creates its own problems. Lower Manhattan in the late ’70s may have been bad, but one hasn’t lived until he’s been chased down the street by a couple hundred angry black teenagers. (Key West, 1976, I doubt it made the NYT). Good thing we had a 12 gauge at home.
There’s plenty of cognitive dissonance to go around on all sides. That, IMO, is what the Obama speech attempted to address. That said, I don’t know why you insist on being such a nasty pr*ck.
You’re referring to stop and frisk. A lot of NYers have a lot of problems with it, myself included. But it is a complicated issue because our city is really just an amalgam of a lot of different neighborhoods. It is a huge issue in the upcoming mayoral Dem primary. Interestingly, Bill Thompson, the black Dem candidate for mayor is taking the most nuanced position on stop and frisk because (1) he wants the support of the police union and (2) because it may not necessarily be that unpopular in enough-to-make-a-difference neighborhoods of color that have higher than average crime rates.
But then I’m not sure you’re interested in actual discussion. I get the feeling that you, and Fred, just want to lob insults and/or score cheap points.
Seriously, are you kidding? You’ve obviously never set foot in Manhattan. But never mind that, feel free to keep making ignorant comments about it.
Ed, I think listening and paying attention is always a good thing. Whether we happen to hear different things or not.
I think those kids, wearing the hoodies, however well meaning, might have been hearing more along the following lines.
It’s late…and I hope you forgive me for letting someone else argue my case….but I think this is worthy of some attention.
The black community you speak of….I think I has been fed a line of bullshit. I don’t know how else to say it. It is time to move on…for all of America. Anyway….give this a read, if you will.
http://dailyhowler.blogspot.com/2013/07/what-are-children-being-told.html
No Edward. I just wish to point out that I like lots of other people in other cities in the US have experienced just what a race riot can do. A jury of Floridians reviewed all the evidence presented in court and found the defendant Not Guilty. All those people of all races marching in all those cities weren’t in the jury box, they do not know nor, I suspect, care to know that Florida law is not NY, CA, WI or another state’s law; and there are plenty of people riling them up. I don’t think the President’s words on Friday did much to quell any of the inflammatory language being used. Hopefully I’m mistaken. I’ve only seen one news report of the Governor of Florida meeting with protesters – in Florida. Nor have I heard of the President and the Governor talking about the issue.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/19/gov-scott-meets-with-protesters-at-florida-capitol-building-announces-day/
Don’t get shitty when you spread lies and then get called out on it and you won’t have to worry about how and where I place the knife.
Martin’s criminal record was buried purposefully by Sanford PD in order to make their crime stats look better.
http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2013/06/27/newly-released-foia-reveals-agenda-sanford-police-department-randy-smith-the-sanford-cover-up/
So its complicated because its not proles but the self proclaimed “Masters of the Universe” and the Chosen who might get mugged/raped/killed by vibrancy.
That’s pretty ‘for thee, not for me’ isn’t it?
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.
Come on Tyler, you can post a better rebuttal than this!!
Just a note: I’m not talking about listening to the dbags on cable tv!
Thanks for the link, jonst, I haven’t read Bob S in a while and enjoyed the post. I think you make good points, and I think Somerby, as usual, is pretty much on the money. I think all Americans worry way too much about a lot of stuff that is statistically unlikely to ever happen.
With regards to the verdict. I can absolutely see where passions were inflamed and watchers/readers misinformed by the American news media. That’s unfortunately par for the course.
But I’m talking about the shooting itself. A lot of African Americans, probably largely based on personal experience, believe the incident would never have happened in the first place if Trayvon M had been white. And that has colored their feelings about the whole affair. The verdict is fair, everybody should move on, but emotions are still raw, all around.
I don’t know that I’ve been pushing any facts, just opinions. So what lies are you talking about?
I know you like to play tough guy on the internet, but please see if you can respond without referencing stabbing or shooting me. Thanks.
I saw the march from my window and I didn’t really get it. I thought the verdict was fair. Yes, the media has simultaneously muddied and sensationalized the entire thing from start to finish, but again, I’m now not entirely certain the march up the ave was exclusively about the verdict. I also don’t know how many of those marchers were there because of misinfo from cable news or there for more personal reasons.
Revitalized Chrysler? I’m sure Fiat is happy to hear that since they bought Chrysler. Financial resurrection? How many bankers are in jail, zero? Banks “too big to fail” Yes. What’s the new structural unemployment rate, 7-11%? What’s the national debt? Yeah, talked about in the same vein as FDR, now that is funny. He’ll be in the history books because he is African American and was re-elected. He is no FDR.
I thought I made myself clear. It’s complicated because there may be some mixed feelings about it in higher crime neighborhoods. While there’s resentment towards NYPD profiling/stopping/frisking their teen kids, there’s also fear of teens with guns.
BHO is a street corner barker, with his Seville suited retainers waiting in the background.
Compare him to FDR? Sheese!
I’m not sure President Hillary Clinton would have had a better shot of getting anything through the GOP in congress either although I voted for her in the primaries because she wasn’t pushing the post partisan crap that Obama was selling to so many suckers in the Dem Party. The reason we’re stuck in the shit is partisan politics, plain and simple.
Yes Obama will go down in history for being our first African American president, but so will the insanity that he unleashed, like the same insanity Bill Clinton unleashed, and that Hillary will unleash if she’s elected.
“A presidential lecture that this tragedy would never have happened if Trayvon M hadn’t “chosen” to “sucker punch the person, and then bang his head in the concrete” is not a teachable moment. It would instead have rightly been cause for national outrage for a whole lot of reasons, not the least of which is that George Z got acquitted because there were no witnesses, and so nobody really knows who initiated what.”
Uh there were witnesses and Zims injuries are totally consistent with the explanation he gave. You just can’t accept that you guys on the Left went all in on Zimmerman being this evil white racist and the reality is that he’s your typical leftie and Martin was a burgeoning thug who got what he deserved.
The knife comment was metaphorical – and you’re a grown man to get upset? As far as ‘internet tough guy’ goes let me know the next time you’re in Phoenix and we’ll ‘talk’ there.
You made that clear, but then you dissembled on why it was ‘different’ for NYC.
You think those of us who get to live cheek to jowl with ‘diversity’ don’t have the same fear of guns as well from vibrant youth?
Would Phoenix get a pass on ‘stop and frisk’ because we have a fear of teens with guns? How about Houston? Birmingham? Atlanta? Miami?
How about any number of small to medium sized departments dealing with gun crime? Would they get a pass without the NAACP marching, engaging in typical mau-mauing and bringing up attempted rapist Emmett Till?
Serious questions here.
Speaker Boner seems pretty determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory with his soft shoeing the amnesty treason. I think that would split the Party in twain.
I usually get yelled at for posting a rebuttal, now I’m getting yelled at for being off the cuff. I was running off four hours of sleep when I posted that, so I can’t say I was exactly at the top of my game.
The commenters below said it as well as I could. Obama has been a poor president who’s entire modus operandi has been “give a speech, do nothing effective”, “illegal executive orders”, and “never get over shit that happened to me back when I was a teenager”.
“there were no witnesses, and so nobody really knows who initiated what.”
The sentence should have read “there were no witnesses to who initiated what.” Hard to find the lie. I don’t know if George Z is a racist and you have no idea what I can or can’t accept. You just have a lot of pre-conceived notions and anger.
BTW, I wasn’t “upset” by your metaphor, just trying to get a rise. Does “talk” mean a fistfight, or do I need to be armed? I fenced in college, foil and epee. We could do that if you’re interested, although it’s probably seems kind of effete. All the tough guys fenced saber.
Talking to you is difficult, Tyler. I’m trying re-read my post and don’t see anywhere in it about “why it was ‘different’ for NYC.
I personally am opposed to stop and frisk in NYC. If our streets are so filled with gun-toting teens, there are probably a lot more sensible, effective ways of dealing with that, but I’m not about to go down that road here again and it’s not germane to the post and thread. I hope that makes it perfectly clear.
Yes everyone here is angry but you. This is old ground we’ve covered before, as well as your opinions on what happened with Saint Trayvon, which are well documented on this site. My ‘pre-conceived notions’ as it were come from dealing with you repeatedly on this issue, and on others.
Boxing, grappling, or epee – whichever you’d like. ‘Swords at dawn’ is charming in this fallen age.
I know the feeling – I thought walrus held the corner on sophistry around here but you’re quickly narrowing his lead.
Your ‘personal opposition’ is charming, but it seems that the Left and its adherents are good at saying they don’t like certain policies but have little problem reaping the benefits of them.
“Obama spoke on Friday as a spokesman for African Americans even though he has not a drop of African American blood in him.”
Hunh?
AE: the monetary figure refers to an anecdote on the book. Why are you taking offense?
MRW
His mother was White and his father was African, not African American. pl
Not “everyone.” You.
I guess living in the ivory tower its very easy to be blase about everything.
Ha ha. I’m a mix of Irish and Italian, there’s plenty of stuff that gets me worked up. This subject just isn’t one of them. If you’ll excuse me, that’s about all for me. Gotta go trim the ivy.
e Whitman! DEMS need massive turnout in 2014 from minorities of all kinds to come close to taking the House and keeping the Senate. Right now Washington is preparing for the Seppekku [sic]Ceremony of the 2014 FY budget.
20 years down the road Obama will be a minor footnote in American history even though you do a nice job of arguing for his significance. The Bush Administration committed suicide. And now the Obama Administration prepares to do so also. Odd how Clinton’s self immolation overlooked purely because Hillary stood by her man and wanted higher office herself. Now looking like she should have stayed in the Senate.
Might be worth watching the Sunday newsies this week as Huma Abedin gets discussed. Former Deputy Chief of Staff to Hillary Clinton at the State Department, wife of Anthony Weiner and former radical Islamist! Not sure of my facts as always but does appear while salaried at State Department violated the Dual Compensation Act of 1947 which prohibits salaried federal employees from having significant outside earned income.
Allegations against Huma Abedin:
Ms. Abedin worked for many years at a journal that promotes Islamic-supremacist ideology that was founded by a top al-Qaeda financier, Abdullah Omar Naseef. Naseef ran the Rabita Trust, a formally designated foreign terrorist organization under American law. Ms. Abedin and Naseef overlapped at the Journal of Muslim Minority Affairs (JMMA) for at least seven years. Throughout that time (1996–2003), Ms. Abdein worked for Hillary Clinton in various capacities.
Ms. Abedin’s late father, Dr. Zyed Abedin, was recruited by Naseef to run the JMMA in Saudi Arabia. The journal was operated under the management of the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, a virulently anti-Semitic and sharia-supremacist organization. When Dr. Abedin died, editorial control of the journal passed to his wife, Dr. Saleha Mahmood Abedin — Huma’s mother.
Saleha Abedin is closely tied to the Muslim Brotherhood and to supporters of violent jihad. Among other things, she directs an organization – the International Islamic Committee for Woman and Child. The IICWC, through its parent entity (the International Islamic Council for Dawa and Relief), is a component of the Union for Good (also known as the Union of Good), another formally designated terrorist organization. The Union for Good is led by Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the notorious Muslim Brotherhood jurist who has issued fatwas calling for the killing of American military and support personnel in Iraq as well as suicide bombings in Israel. (As detailed here, the Obama White House recently hosted Qaradawi’s principal deputy, Sheikh Abdulla bin Bayyah, who also endorsed the fatwa calling for the killing of U.S. troops and personnel in Iraq.)
Like Sheikh Qaradawi, who helped write the charter for the IICWC, Saleha Abedin is an influential sharia activist who has, for example, published a book called Women in Islam that claims man-made laws enslave women. It reportedly provides sharia justifications for such practices as female-genital mutilation, the death penalty for apostates from Islam, the legal subordination of women, and the participation of women in violent jihad. Dr. Abedin has nevertheless been hailed in the progressive press as a “leading voice on women’s rights in the Muslim world” (to quote Foreign Policy). What they never quite get around to telling you is that this means “women’s rights” in the repressive sharia context.
Back to daughter Huma. In the late mid to late Nineties, while she was an intern at the Clinton White House and an assistant editor at JMMA, Ms. Abedin was a member of the executive board of the Muslim Students Association (MSA) at George Washington University, heading its “Social Committee.” The MSA, which has a vast network of chapters at universities across North America, is the foundation of the Muslim Brotherhood’s infrastructure in the United States. Obviously, not every Muslim student who joins the MSA graduates to the Brotherhood — many join for the same social and networking reasons that cause college students in general to join campus organizations. But the MSA does have an indoctrination program, which Sam Tadros describes as a lengthy process of study and service that leads to Brotherhood membership — a process “designed to ensure with absolute certainty that there is conformity to the movement’s ideology and a clear adherence to its leadership’s authority.” The MSA gave birth to the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), the largest Islamist organization in the U.S. Indeed the MSA and ISNA consider themselves the same organization. Because of its support for Hamas (a designated terrorist organization that is the Muslim Brotherhood’s Palestinian branch), ISNA was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Holy Land Foundation case, in which several Hamas operatives were convicted of providing the terrorist organization with lavish financing.
The MSA chapter to which Ms. Abedin belonged at George Washington University has an intriguing history. In 2001 [to be clear, that is after Ms. Abedin had graduated from GWU], its spiritual guide was . . . Anwar al-Awlaki, the al-Qaeda operative who was then ministering to some of the eventual 9/11 suicide-hijackers. Awlaki himself had led the MSA chapter at Colorado State University in the early nineties. As Patrick Poole has demonstrated, Awlaki is far from the only jihadist to hone his supremacist ideology in the MSA’s friendly confines. In the eighties, Wael Jalaidan ran the MSA at the University of Arizona. He would soon go on to help Osama bin Laden found al-Qaeda; he also partnered with the Abedin family’s patron, Abdullah Omar Naseef, to establish the [aforementioned] Rabita Trust — formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law due to its funding of al-Qaeda.
Ms. Abedin served as one of Secretary of State Clinton’s top staffers and advisers at the State Department. During that time, the State Department strongly supported abandoning the federal government’s prior policy against official dealings with the Muslim Brotherhood. State, furthermore, embraced a number of Muslim Brotherhood positions that undermine both American constitutional rights and our alliance with Israel.
Yes Taras
Moreover Bush Sr and his DOJ sent very many banksters to jail for the Savings & Loans fraud too.
Though what happened at Silverado or BCCA back then looks very tame compared to the ponzi schemes that Blankfein and others cooked up last the last several years .
That was…