I recommend RT.com and RT America if you get MHz Networks digital broadcast for coverage of the attack in Ankara. The Berlin attack at the Christkindlmarkt in the glow of the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Gedächtniskirche will be well covered in the Western press. That attack seems a repeat of the attack in Nice in July. I will comment on the Ankara attack mostly with RT live updates.
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“This is a tragic day in the history of Russian diplomacy. Today, Russian Ambassador to Turkey Andrey Karlov died after being shot at during a public event in Ankara,” Russian Foreign Ministry spokesperson Maria Zakharova said on Monday evening. The assault on the Russian ambassador is an “act of terrorism,” she added. “We are in touch with Turkish officials, who assured us that there will be a thorough and comprehensive investigation [into the case],” Zakharova said.” (RT)
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Putin has already addressed the nation in a televised statement. In addition to praising Ambassador Karlov and expressing his sorrow for his murder, he made the following comments.
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"This murder is clearly a provocation aimed at undermining the improvement and normalization of Russian-Turkish relations, as well as undermining the peace process in Syria promoted by Russia, Turkey, Iran and other countries interested in settling the conflict in Syria,"
“We need to know who organized the killing, who gave orders to the assassin.”
“Our only response is stepping up the fight against terrorism. The killers will feel it.”
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"An AP photographer Burhan Ozbilici was covering a photo exhibition when a gunman opened fire, assassinating Russia's ambassador to Turkey. He recounts the chaos that unfolded as he captured the scene. "Don't forget Aleppo. Don't forget Syria!" the gunman shouted in Turkish, referring to the Syrian city where Russian bombardments have helped drive rebels from areas they had occupied for years during the war. He also shouted "Allahu akbar" but I couldn't understand the rest of what he said in Arabic." (Richmond Times Dispatch)
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An RT update added this about what the assassin said. “Following the shooting of Karlov, the assailant shouted: “Don't forget Aleppo! Don't forget Syria!” “Only death can take me away from here. Whoever has a role in this cruelty, they will pay for it one by one. They will,” the man went on to say.” (RT live update)
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Turkish authorities said the assassin was a former Turkish police officer who was let go after the failed coup.
——————————————
“A senior Turkish security official said there are “very strong signs” that the gunman was linked to the network of exiled US-based Turkish cleric Fethullah Gulen, Reuters reported. He also added that the current investigation is trying to establish links.” (RT live update)
“US-based cleric Fethullah Gulen strongly condemned the attack and has absolutely no links to the gunman, Alp Aslandogan, Gulen’s advisor on media issues, told Reuters. "Mr. Gulen categorically condemns this heinous act,” he stressed.” (RT live update)
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So we have an assassin yelling in Turkish and Arabic with threats of retribution for Aleppo while giving the one finger jihadi salute. I think that senior Turkish security official is trying to throw the Russian wolfhound off the scent. I also think the trail will lead to the FSA/Nusra jihadis currently enjoying the benevolence of the West and the Turks. As Putin said, “The killers will feel it.” I can hear my old friend, master sergeant Al Rivers in that booming rebel voice of his, “The shit’s on, good buddy!”
TTG
The Gulenist movement has emphasized cooptation of police and military. The killer’s age of 22 makes him part of Gulen’s favorite demographic of impressionable young men.
As an old friend was fond of saying, we shouldn’t “jump to contusions”, but Gulenist connections are possible, among others.
Russia will stay cool about this, more than many might. But they haven’t run out of Polonium..
I’m not chasing conspiracies..but best hope that the trail doesn’t work its way back to O’s dark side/Langley..if so then the shit will really be on.
Was he part of the security detail?
Putin will send them to God to sort out with no remorse whatsoever!
The Western media is trying to figure out how to spin this which is why Trump winning the electoral college and some expose on a Fox News bimbo is “news” right now.
As of 430pm CST, Donald Trump secured the Electoral College becoming the President of the United States of America.
First off, Erdogan declared that investigation into the shooting in Ankara will be conducted along, and in cooperation with Russian Security Services. If he really means it, and the Russians will hold him to his word, he will have to give access to all kinds of data bases and security personnel within Turkey, a NATO country with a lot of intersecting veins into security matters. Good luck to those in charge to cherry pick what they can give to the Russians, or to deny resources on any grounds, lest Putin hectors it over Mr. Erdogan. To me lately, in his press photos, his nose is taking some mysterious tones of burnt umber.
Albayim, this quote from you may put my last comment in context.
“The shit’s on, good buddy!”
TTG, Why is the shooter just walking around ranting and raving after killing the ambassador? Why are there no security personnel turning him into Swiss cheese? Is it SOP for Russian ambassadors to about in terrorist ridden Turkey with no security? I doubt it.
Maybe a set up by Turkish security and maybe the madman Erdogan himself.
Constantinople in the Spring. It’s going to be wonderful to visit.
Latest, The manager of Russia’s foreign ministry was found murdered in his Moscow apartment with gun shot wounds….
The shit is really on!!!
The Guardian somewhat surprisingly has the full text
After firing at the ambassador, the man shouted in Turkish: “Don’t forget Aleppo. Don’t forget Syria. Unless our towns are secure, you won’t enjoy security. Only death can take me from here. Everyone who is involved in this suffering will pay a price.”
He also shouted in Arabic: “We are the one who pledged allegiance to Muhammad, to wage jihad.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/dec/19/russian-ambassador-to-turkey-wounded-in-ankara-shooting-attack
Just to add on my Gray Bearded friends, Turkish so called security forces are a joke, they are all playing a movie part in the infamous Turkish hit movie “The Valley of the Wolves”, Kurtlar Vadisi, all show and no substance, no real intelligence, both in metaphorical or literal sense, no real training, no leadership, an obsession with Gulenist plotters, distrust of anyone who doesn’t have a beard or a scarf, anyone who reads the world opinion through a critical filter, and anyone who is not a “kul”, servant of a master. The assassination of the Russian Ambassador was preventable, even the lowest mayor of the smallest town in Turkey has more security personnel around blocking the traffic in their self important armored cars, carrying Sigs they would more than likely shoot their own feet at home than would be assassins. You gotta see these guys, what total jokes.
Watching Russian RT: There are several way to receive their TV channel in the US, including in the Washington area: Go to the Official Site for RT, which also has up to the minute news and carries video of their shows as does their YouTube channel. Under “shows” at the top, there is a drop down menu to select where you live and it lists if and how it is carried. Around here it is on Dish, Comcast, Verizon Fios and others.
Someone set him up, start by excluding those who did not, or would not, if you can please, as I did to a question by a friend. Then why, and who benefits, and why now and in context to all that’s going around. As we speak.
Appears that they killed him eventually, but not before the Ambassador bled to death. They could have taken him alive, right there and then . That adds more to the mystery. Now its open to all kinds of spin and fabrication as to who and why.
Utterly fascinated by MSM coverage of the “assassination” on my TV. They immediately cite the gunman’s motivation, citing Aleppo:cut directly to scenes of devastated aleppo, the green buses.. Can you imagine coverage of Nice or today’s Berlin immediately being followed by “the attacker cited the devastation of Mosul as as the motive…”. Flabbergasting
At least in the early modern Ottoman period of the great sultans, the kuls were legally “slaves.”
Carpet bomb Idlib. With vacuum bombs. And any Turks and Turkish military assets inside of Syria are fair game. What’s the Western media going to do, say Russia is committing genocide and slaughtering innocents. That’s been the coverage the last 4 weeks 24/7. Russia should use this now 100% saturation propaganda point of all Western media propaganda as cover to do some real wicked sh!t on the jihadis and their supportive families.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the news yesterday that 14 people from the coalition were picked up in East Aleppo.
Kunuri,
I would think that the gunman should have been cut down before he even got off a shot, but most certainly by the third or fourth round fired.
This stinks to high heaven.
Eric Newhill,
I wondered about the lack of armed response from either Turkish or Russian Embassy security. Maybe the Russians do things differently and Karlov considered being surrounded by armed guards as a lack of courage. I’ve seen that attitude in action and, frankly, I admire it. As for Turkish security, I saw a video showing one chubby armed Turk in uniform stumbling around in front of the gallery not knowing what to do. Doesn’t inspire much confidence in their capabilities.
I wonder if the Guardian always publishes the slogans of murderers? They sure managed to all the words down, punctuation and all!
TTG, I guess I can see that too. Maybe. Will be interesting to follow Russian news releases on this.
FkDahl,
It was all caught on film. All it needed was transcription.
If you watch the footage, the attacker stands behind the ambassador when he gives his speech, seemingly acting like security detail. Twitter circulates documents alleging he was not in fact let go, but a serving officer. No idea about credibility of all this, may be ruse, but something here seems odd to say the least. As is the immediate government reaction to tie him to the Gulen movement (well that’s not odd, just fishy). Whatever is going on there, the Turkish stance on supporting Jihadists may finally come around to bite them in the ass big time…
Kunuri,
The “security services” of tayyip-the-lesser have more holes than Swiss cheese, and have been thoroughly infiltrated by various IS. The inability of the islamists klepts to govern a modern country is becoming more obvious every day. It is my hope that, one day soon, the common man in Turkey will also understand this simple fact.
Be safe.
Ishmael Zechariah
All
Regarding the murder of the Russian envoy, the murderer was openly praised by western backed “white helmets.” One leading white helmet commented on Facebook: “All good for you, oh hero of the martyrs.” See a screenshot:
https://urs17982.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/helden-feuerwehrmann.png
Via:
https://urs17982.wordpress.com/2016/12/20/wenn-westfinanzierte-white_helmets-die-ermordung-des-russischen-botschafters-feierwhitehelmet-org/
Regarding the attack in Berlin the pants of the German government are on fire. Private media and than 1st German TV reported, what was in english also on daily star uk: Berlin Christmas market truck crash suspect ‘refugee from Pakistan or Afghanistan’
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/571740/Berlin-Christmas-market-truck-crash-terror-attack-suspect-identity-pakistan-name-isis
And that is while Interior minister Thomas de Maiziere said this on German national TV – via AP, quote begin:
“I don’t want to use the word ‘attack’ yet at the moment, although a lot speaks for it,” Interior Minister Thomas de Maiziere told ARD television. “There is a psychological effect in the whole country of the choice of words here, and we want to be very, very cautious and operate close to the actual investigation results, not with speculation.”
Quote end, source: http://www.kvoa.com/story/34090374/truck-rams-into-german-christmas-market-killing-12-people
And then came Trump and sabotaged the whole spinning of the story line by the German government – via New York Post, quote begin:
Trump blames ‘Islamist terrorists’ for Berlin attack
… “Our hearts and prayers are with the loved ones of the victims of today’s horrifying terror attack in Berlin,” Trump said. “Innocent civilians were murdered in the streets as they prepared to celebrate the Christmas holiday. ISIS and other Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad. These terrorists and their regional and worldwide networks must be eradicated from the face of the earth, a mission we will carry out with all freedom-loving partners.” …
Quote end. Source: http://nypost.com/2016/12/19/trump-blames-islamist-terrorists-for-berlin-attack/
Boom! Terror attack, likely committed by a Muslim refugee seeker. All live on German TV and the government caught with pants down trying to spin the facts away. That will likely hit the refugee champions and Syrian rebel champions in Germany’s government and the general political landscape in Germany hard. The police has caught the attacker alive, but the police is very very silent on details.
The only way I can imagine Germany’s government to come out with only one blue eye, as we say in Germany, is if they can convince the public that this was not jihadi terrorism, but a spontanous act of advanced suicide by a desperate refugee seeker facing deportation. However, even that would be quite bad for the government, and it’s far from clear that many German people would believe that anyway.
Bandolero: Agree re Germany. The response doesn’t look great although its hard to conjure up any scenario given the indications so far how the best spin doctor could turn this around. This is more than ominous for next years elections. Media will also take another hit likely, the mainstream is tight-lipped. I’ve said it before, we live in interesting times. That’s not a good thing.
You wrote:
“The inability of the islamists klepts to govern a modern country…”
I do not think you are going far enough. More accurately,
“The inability of Traditional Islam to govern a changing country…”
How does this act break Russia’s resolve? What was the end game, to send a signal to Russia to back off? Frankly, the only question that remains is who really is ISIS since this seems like an odd follow-on to getting their asses handed to them in Aleppo.
According to most sources Al Nusrah kicked ISIS out of Aleppo a while back so it’s claimed that there are no ISIS fighters in Aleppo. After the rapid “victory” at Jarabulus, it wouldn’t surprise me if ISIS fighters shaved off their beards and joined another “moderate” group.
I’ve since worked out that the Guardian left out a couple of Allahu Akbars.
So the Arabic he shouted was “God is great. We are the one who pledged allegiance to Muhammad, to wage jihad. God is great.”
A. Pols,
The Russian security services give every appearance of being quite competent. When they assassinate people, they tend to choose means that work.
So with Ibn al-Khattab, in March 2002, they used a poisoned letter. According to Chechen sources – which may or may not be reliable – it was coated with a ‘fast-acting nerve agent, possibly sarin or a derivative.’
(See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Khattab .)
The notion that the FSB assassinated Alexander Litvinenko with polonium is as patent BS as the notion that Bashar al-Assad chose to launch a major sarin attack at Ghouta three days after the UN/OPCW inspectors had arrived in Syria.
I dealt with the farce of Sir Robert Owen’s inquiry into the death of Litvinenko in a post on SST back in January.
(See http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/01/david-hakkuk-on-sir-robert-owens-inquiry.html .)
All,
Back in July 2014, the former head of MI6, Sir Richard Dearlove, assured an audience at the Royal United Service Institute that we really didn’t need to worry too much about jihadists, because the ‘Islamic State’ and their Saudi backers really only wanted to butcher Shia.
An extract from Patrick Cockburn’s report of his speech:
‘Dearlove’s explosive revelation about the prediction of a day of reckoning for the Shia by Prince Bandar, and the former head of MI6’s view that Saudi Arabia is involved in the Isis-led Sunni rebellion, has attracted surprisingly little attention. Coverage of Dearlove’s speech focused instead on his main theme that the threat from Isis to the West is being exaggerated because, unlike Bin Laden’s al-Qa’ida, it is absorbed in a new conflict that “is essentially Muslim on Muslim”. Unfortunately, Christians in areas captured by Isis are finding this is not true, as their churches are desecrated and they are forced to flee. A difference between al-Qa’ida and Isis is that the latter is much better organised; if it does attack Western targets the results are likely to be devastating.
(See http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/comment/iraq-crisis-how-saudi-arabia-helped-isis-take-over-the-north-of-the-country-9602312.html .)
A piece by the former MI6 operative Alistair Crooke, to which ‘pmr9’ linked on a previous thread, relates the current attempts to delegitimise the President-elect to the history of bungling in which his old employers have colluded with the CIA. His explanation of the current ‘information operations’ against Trump seems worth quoting at length:
‘How can this have happened? The war in Syria has had, it seems, a hugely corrosive effect on services such as CIA and MI6. Firstly, there was the tension of contradiction: the deceit to be maintained of ostensibly fighting terrorism, while secretly supporting such bloody forces (in order to weaken President Bashar al-Assad and subsequently Russia).
‘Secondly, that of pretending to be pursuing a “principled” policy of off-shored “identity politics” (Sunnis as victims), while quietly accepting – and becoming dependent on – the “off-balance sheet” subventions flowing from the very patrons of such forces (shades of Clinton Foundation pay-to-play ethos).
‘And thirdly, by becoming the echo chamber of claims, however improbable, however false, thrown up by sundry armed movements and their paymasters – with the intent to force the hand of Western military intervention. In short, these services cease to be observers; they became investors. They become lost in a maze of contorted realities, false propaganda, and of acquired hubris. Like Prometheus, they think to secretly steal from Zeus, the god of war: they aspire to dictate war and peace.
‘Into this heady world of “strategic communication” warfare, has intruded Mr. Trump, spoiling their Syria gambit – and promising détente with Russia. It must indeed seem intolerable.
(See https://consortiumnews.com/2016/12/16/politicized-intelligence-kneecapping-trump/ .)
Here is the comment by Frantz Klintsevic, an Afghan vet, head of the Union of Veterans of Afghanistan and deputy chairman of the Russian Parliament’s defence and security committee:
“It was a planned action. Everyone knew that he was going to attend this photo exhibition. It can be Isis, or the Kurdish army which tries to hurt Erdogan. But may be – and it is highly likely – that representatives of foreign Nato secrets services are behind it.”
My remark about Polonium was intended as tongue in cheek and I too don’t buy the popular narrative about Litvinenko.
> Unless our towns are secure
As I’m lamentably ignorant of much of what’s going on there, could someone explain who the “our” refers to? Presumably it’s someone/ something with which the assassin identified.
TTG, assassinating the Russian ambassador was sad cold blood murder, in war it can be understood since he was a political figure of a waring party. but what is really sad is Berlin and Zurich that happened in same day. One wonders
why this terrorist attacks doesn’t happen in Tokyo, Seoul, Rio, etc. To stop this attacks, the question is when would Western citizens will feel they had enough and stop their government’ use of militant islamic terrorist for the old western hegemonic colonization of MENA.
AT, I would say depends on background and motive. I suppose not even the best informed here could tell you.
Is it a rhetorical question?
Considering what he shouted, one would assume he is referring to ME/Muslim as “our” towns more generally. The earlier Al Qaeda narrative was somewhat get you feet/hands/bodies our of “our” land. The land of Islam versus whatever type of modern crusaders e.g. the US having bases there. Israel too …
It’s a bit more difficult now. The Russian ambassador in Turkey no doubt is somewhat symbolic.
@ Eliot
Just watch this :
Another angle of the assassin, saw it on the a/c of Elijah Magnier:
https://twitter.com/Altmimy_1/status/811173402811781120
@ Allen Thomson
From Elijah Magnier:
he gives an explanation
https://twitter.com/EjmAlrai/status/811180542515433472
here’s the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKVF8UxBJ-k
the names start around 9:30. The QA around 14-15 is pretty good to, particularly the answer to the last question.
It is the Cult of Shoah that has had a hugely corrosive effect on the United States and, evidently, the rest of Fortress West; violating the Laws of the United States with impunity, issuing blank passports to Israeli assassins, choosing silence when their own citizens (Rachel Corey) were murdered by Israelis….
The Far Eastern states are not perceived to be at War with Islam yet.
“..when would Western citizens will feel they had enough and stop their government’ use of militant islamic terrorist for the old western hegemonic colonization of MENA.”
Slowly! Difficult when they are fed a steady propaganda diet by their corporate media and political leadership. While Merkel and her Interior Minister were namby pambying, Trump was pretty clear. To quote him:’Innocent civilians were murdered in the streets as they prepared to celebrate the Christmas holiday. ISIS and other Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad.
‘These terrorists and their regional and worldwide networks must be eradicated from the face of the earth, a mission we will carry out with all freedom-loving partners.’
It will be rather interesting to watch if the media will continue to call black white and how the PC talking heads and EU political leadership will deal with his language.
Bandolero
Exactly. You have the point clear. The difference in statements between the German Interior Minister and Trump. One being PC and the other straightforward and clear.
Now, this statement by the German prosecutor.
Prosecutor Holger Münch has warned of a ‘serious threat’ of another ‘significant’ terror attack as it emerged an asylum seeker from Pakistan arrested last night was the wrong man.
Berlin’s police chief Klaus Kandt said the ‘dangerous criminal’ behind a deadly truck rampage at a Christmas market may still be on the run, urging ‘heightened vigilance’. Interior minister Klaus Bouillon said that Germany is ‘in a state of war’ after the massacre on Breitscheidplatz Square last night.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4049442/Terror-attack-fears-lorry-ploughs-Christmas-market-Berlin-leaving-two-people-dead.html
Trump has stated that he would establish “Safe Zones”, ostensibly to help refugees, in Syria Moreover, he has not mentioned working with the Syrian Arab Republic at all.
In my opinion, he is indicating a continuation of US, EU, Turkish, and Gulfies policy in the Levant.
Trump cannot have it both ways; continuing the policies of Obama and destroying Sunni Muslim Takfiris.
The German site “Welt.de” reports (at 16:12 Uhr MET), that the refugee of Pakistan origin, who was believed to have made the deadly terror attack at the Christkindlmarkt in Berlin yesterday, actually did not drive the truck. “We have got the wrong man” said the Police in Berlin according to Welt.de.
I apologize, forgot to post the link to “Welt.de”:
https://www.welt.de/politik/deutschland/article160462226/Berliner-Polizei-Wir-haben-den-falschen-Mann.html
So the assassin was standing there certainly looking like part of the Ambassador’s security, no?
Babak
We don’t yet know what Trump will actually do. He’s also stated that Assad-must-go which was Obama’s & Hillary’s policy was not his priority.
The question is how influential the Saudi and Gulfie viewpoint will be and where the Israelis influence will lead. And of course how much influence Putin will have on his thinking. At this point we’ll have to wait and see what actually happens after January 20th.
All
An addendum: it now looks like that police didn’t catch the truck driver. They just grabbed a petty criminal asylum seeker from Pakistan from the street who has nothing to do with the truck or the attack. That is while the real terrorist, who got in possession of the truck by robbery and killing the rightful driver, is unknown and on the run.
http://www.tagesschau.de/multimedia/video/video-242339.html
Police seems to know exactly nothing about the real perpetrator. This all looks as an even larger desaster for the German government.
And how much credence is there to the theory that Trump Russia reset is made more difficult by this attack? If this is the last FU by the Obama admin to Trump by muddying up the waters?
Thanks, beaver, haven’t checked his blog for quite some time.
I do not think so; there won’t be any change in the Fortress West policies in the Levant and the Persian Gulf; no matter how many of their own citizens fall victim to terrorism.
They have sunk too many equities there to change now.
Furthermore, Trump has surrounded himself with un-repentant Neo-cons; General Flynn has publicly denigrated Islam as not even being a religion (like he would know).
Trump’s position seems to be this:
Let us see if we can transaction-ally deal with Russia all the while pursuing the same policies as we have had for the last 40 years in the Islamdom.
He would be trying to isolate his Middle East policy and his Russian policy – failing at both – without a doubt.
But, as you state, we will have to wait and see.
interesting. My old fascination with words and their context. 😉
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ansar_(Islam)
Bandolero: reminds me of the bungled arrest not too long ago. Remember the man that committed suicide inside his prison cell? Before he had been delivered ‘parceled up’ (?) to police by countrymen? Was he Afghani?
What’s the curious story about the 12 year old that was arrested, supposedly since he or his controllers planned to attack a Christmas Market further down? Ludwigshafen?
Babak Makkinejad,
It is very difficult to know what is happening.
You write: ‘They have sunk too many equities to change now.’
But – who are ‘they’?
As was also the case with Obama, Trump has to operate inside the ‘fields of force’ of the American political system. But there are significant differences – among them that the new President has very much deeper roots in American culture, and an enormously better understanding of it, than than the old.
(And, it can help to be a successful ‘reality TV’ presenter.)
So, he has to ‘face different ways’ – and the ways he will finally decide to ‘jump’ are unpredictable.
This brings me on to what you have said about the ‘cult of the Shoah’.
I cannot judge what the situation is in the United States, or indeed elsewhere in Europe – because I do not know what people say, as it were, behind closed doors, as I to some extent do here.
Speaking at a meeting of ‘Conservative Friends of Israel’ a few days back, Theresa May announced that Britain is formally adopting a definition of anti-Semitism agreed earlier this year by a body entitled ‘the International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance.’
This definition is, frankly a mess.
Two matters which brand one as an ‘anti-Semite’ – supposedly:
‘– Accusing Jewish citizens of being more loyal to Israel, or to the alleged priorities of Jews worldwide, than to the interests of their own nations.
‘– Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor.’
(See http://mondoweiss.net/2016/12/definition-semitism-demonizes/ ; https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/sites/default/files/press_release_document_antisemitism.pdf .)
If one defines Jews as a ‘people’ with a ‘right to self-determination’, it follows, as a simple point of logic, that any Jew so defined must necessarily have a focus of national loyalty, which is distinct from that of people whose only such loyalty is to Britain.
The question of whether, in a given instance, the loyalty to the ‘national home of the Jewish people’ is stronger, or weaker, than the loyalty to Britain is obviously a matter which cannot be prejudged.
But to suggest that to suggest that a given individual is an ‘Israel-firster’ is necessarily unjustified is, quite obviously, irrational. To try to ram stupidity down people’s throats courts a backlash – which is already developing.
A very good insight into many of these issues comes from the blogging of Robert Cohen – an Orthodox Jew, who used to work for the BBC (started out in local reporting), and now works for the Co-operative Society in the North of England, and is married to an Anglican Minister.
As he noted in a recent post, we come back to issues which were raised at the time of the Balfour Declaration.
(See http://www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/2016/11/reclaiming-the-lost-jewish-voices-of-the-balfour-declaration/ .)
These are too complex matters to treat adequately here.
But, to give a taste of how people are feeling, I came not long ago upon a list of ‘The Jerusalem Post’s 50 Most Influential Jews of 2016.’
(See http://www.jpost.com/50-Influencers-2016 .)
At the top were Haim Saban, Benjamin Netanyahu, and Sheldon Adelson. As to the rest …
If these are the figures who are supposed to define a ‘Jewish people’, then any rational ‘Goy’ should be, in some sense, an ‘anti-Semite’ – and the only proper strategy for Jews of intelligence and feeling would have to be ‘self-hatred’.
Actually we have some of trump’s actions to judge. Nominating an extremist as ambassador to Israel does not bode well for any sort of stable diplomacy in the ME IMO.
You are not giving Trump any credit.
He won a surprising and huge electoral victory against all odds by defeating the sure thing Hillary backed by the entire political establishment and the big media with unlimited campaign funds. Don’t underestimate the fact that he took out both the GOP and Democrat leading political dynasties in this campaign.
You may very well be surprised at what he accomplishes in the ME. It’s not necessarily what you want to see happen but it will likely not be the status quo. In my layman’s opinion his first act will be to work in concert with Russia to clear Syria of the jihadis. Then he’ll put the squeeze on Iran and the Saudis with the Russians playing good cop.
Kooshy,
“One wonders why this terrorist attacks doesn’t happen in Tokyo, Seoul, Rio,”
Do you really wonder why a radical Islamic terrorist does not commit terrorist acts in Japan, Korea or Brazil?
Note what Trump said today:
“ISIS and other Islamist terrorists continually slaughter Christians in their communities and places of worship as part of their global jihad.”
Who else has made such an observation before? Putin. There will be more common cause against the jihadists than you expect between the two, IMO. Obama, Hillary, Merkel, Hollande, Blair, Cameron never made that point.
shanks
I think the opposite idea has more credence: the acts of terror make Trumps idea that more cooperation with Russia to defeat the common terrorist enemy look even more plausible.
First, he’s just an Ambassador. Second, if you think Trump’s going to deliver the Palestinians their pre-1964 border state then you are sadly mistaken. When he gets to the broader issue of the ME the offer that he’ll make the Arabs and Iranians will not be what they desire but something they would be foolish not to accept.
David
This fits all neatly into what Mike Flynn said, that there was a willful decision taken in Washington to let the jihadi cancer fester in Syria in order to weaken Assad.
https://levantreport.com/2015/08/06/former-dia-chief-michael-flynn-says-rise-of-islamic-state-was-a-willful-decision-and-defends-accuracy-of-2012-memo/
And it also fits neatly into what John McCain, a true friend of Israel honored with a JINSA award, said in 2014, quote begin:
“Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar,” John McCain told CNN’s Candy Crowley in January 2014. “Thank God for the Saudis and Prince Bandar, and for our Qatari friends,” the senator said once again a month later, at the Munich Security Conference.
Qutie end. Source: http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/06/isis-saudi-arabia-iraq-syria-bandar/373181/
What seems somewhat strange to me is that people in Arizona just reelected this guy as a senator, though he’s openly in bed with jihadi terrorism.
It is the Cult of Shoah that has had a hugely corrosive effect on the United States and, evidently, the rest of Fortress West
It’s odd you respond like that.
But more associatively: vague memories of the early post 9/11 universe surfaced during the last days. At that point I wondered if “Fortress West”–obviously without the special few both in the US and I suppose over here can afford their share on security–was meant to look like Fortress Israel long term.
OK, admittedly Tyler might object: Before they built a wall
Thank you for your comments which indeed confirmed the pernicious effect of Shaoh Cultists on admirable structures of Liberal Democracy in England.
I would like to further observe here another one of its effects on the international scene:
On December 6-th of this year, 15 Shia were sentenced to death in Saudi Arabia for spying for Iran.
US and EU have been silent.
In early 1999, when Iranian government arrested 13 Jews on the suspicion of spying for Israel, US and EU came down as a ton of brick on Iran; threats followed threats…
The moral of this, it seems to me, is that US and EU value the lives of foreign Jews above and beyond every one else’s; an untenable proposition for them and for everyone else – in my opinion.
By the way, their Iranian handler had fled earlier back to Israel.
I must state that, in my opinion, you live in a fantasy.
Putting squeeze on Saudi Arabia?
You mean that he is willing to un-make US Dollar as the World Reserve Currency? And go against all the entrenched and mutually beneficial commercial and financial relationships between Fortress West and the Gulfies?
Well, I would like to sell you a piece of the “True Cross” that has been passed to me from my ancestors since the time of the Bahram II. My price is very reasonable.
Putin would want NATO to go back to where she was in 1991 – one thousand miles away from Moscow and not what obtains today – 300 miles.
Would Trump, or May, or Hollande, or Merkel countenance that?
Never.
There are serious structural constrains now on the depth and extent of profitable cooperation between NATO and the Russian Federation; a legacy of Cold War as well as the Unilateral Moment that followed it.
Putin, in my opinion, is pursuing a far-sighted policy predicated on the decay of Soviet structures in Central Asia as well the disintegration of Afghanistan and spread of Jihadism. He is recruiting Iran and Syria and Iraq as the buffer states between the Russian Federation and the rest of Islam.
He is likely not as concerned about Turkey, calculating that she is effectively limited by NATO in what she can do against the Russian Federation.
This: ” the offer that he’ll make the Arabs and Iranians..” is an interesting point.
I would like to know, in your opinion, what that offer could be.
I am personally very curious because several years ago I concluded that there is nothing that US could offer to Iran.
I do not mind to be corrected on that score.
I noted that they did not try to take him alive. They wanted very much to keep him silent about what he might say regarding who he knew, how he got in with the detail, etc.
Allen Thomson,
Off the top of my head, I will just guess that the shooter meant “East” Aleppo, the jihadi-ruled towns in Idlib, Raqha, and other jihadistani towns and cities.
Bandolero ,
Yes , and if you look at President elect Trump’s tweets regarding these attacks in Ankara & Berlin we are all under dire existential threat from the “radical Islamist terrorist ” – meanwhile the PRC is making noises about its great upset regarding the upending of the One China architecture. The very same diplomatic architecture that has kept the peace in East Asia since President Nixon went to China . I really pray that President Trump starts attending all of his Daily Briefings .,
Interesting you think that…CNBC is on in the other room & they just did a story about a Russian bot that is stealing millions of dollars a day in
false advertising money; supposedly it sends out sales pitches for ads that
can reach millions of listeners/readers & only has them read by bots &
somehow steals business’ ipo addresses. I don’t really understand it but
if the uber rich somehow are convinced it’s costing them money then the
shit is really on.
Sam Peralta said in reply to Babak Makkinejad…
“You are not giving Trump any credit.
he’ll put the squeeze on Iran and the Saudis with the Russians playing good cop.”
Trump resembles Loki
Your other statement is partially correct, it is playing the Russia and China against one another. US can not afford the other two giants forming any alliances.
http://thesaker.is/making-sense-of-trump/
Sam Peralta
“Then he’ll put the squeeze on Iran & Sauds with the Russians playing good cop. ” Intriguing pronouncement regarding working with Putin care to elaborate ? And while we are discussing the Trump foreign policy – do you think its a good idea to put in play the continuation of the One China Policy that Trump appears to have done ? And if we are going to be scrapping the One China Policy what will we be replacing it with – perhaps that the USG formally endorse the independence of the Taiwan government from Beijing ?
Israel Shamir begs to differ in the following intriguing article on the importance of the nomination as ambassador as indicative of an end to sham negotiations on a two-state solution:
http://www.unz.com/ishamir/trump-sets-the-cat-among-the-jewish-pigeons/
Look at the evidence to show intent. Do you expect Pruitt nominated to run the EPA to bolster EPA laws when he’s spent the better part of his recent office fighting EPA laws in favor of burning more coal? Safe to say he is nominated to do the opposite. Do you expect Friedman is nominated to bolster peace prospects with the Arabs when he is in favor of Israel annexing the West Bank?
The other day this odd item appeared on Vox:
“Rent-a-Jew: It’s an Actual Thing in Germany. And amazingly, it’s a good thing.”
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/12/15/13958618/rent-a-jew-germany
Without exhaustively analyzing the piece, a number of things jump out:
1. Word usage:
Jews as “victims”: 3 times;
“holocaust” 7 times;
“reparations” 2 times
German sins, German guilt ~3 times
2. The only speakers and only point of view were those of Jews, no non-Jewish Germans.
3. The article, reinforced by a photo of a rabbi in a high pulpit, read to me like Jewish ‘masters’ inviting their subjects to the big house to “get to know” who is calling the shots.
Add in this, on C Span Washington Journal this morning:
Asked to comment on the attacks, one caller identified as “dual US-Israeli citizen;” “Mossad is the best intelligence service in the world; Mossad knows everything before it happens.”
That’s not true, but it is a fact that Israel has been known to pull the kind of stunts that occurred in Berlin yesterday, and when was the last time the perpetrator of such an event got away; didn’t get killed on the scene, before interrogation, usually with a passport in his pocket or having shouted something about Allah?
It doesn’t make sense that a Muslim/Arab would attack a German Christmas (i.e. Christian-ish) celebration. otoh, zionists would see a benefit in making Christians and ‘cultural Germans’ in Germany fearful and thereby back away, bit by bit, from their German Christmas celebrations, similar to the way Jews in USA have cast a pall over celebration of (Christian) Christmas celebrations.
PS the caller who spoke of Mossad’s omnipotence summed up by complaining of US weakness in allowing Iran to buy Boeing planes: “They load them with weapons . . . it’s been documented.”
The Berlin attack was a Mossad job.
PS Trump’s response to Berlin was disgusting.
I believe the attack was orchestrated by Mossad, maybe w/ the help of others.
Trump played into their hands.
From information available online (mostly thru SST), it appears to me the German police genuinely DO NOT KNOW who did this attack and are unwilling to issue emotion-driven statements, devoid of evidence, as Trump did.
@ Babak
The latest :
Beset by low oil prices, at war in Yemen, and ties with Egypt strained, Riyadh and Gulf allies are questioning how much armed help they should now give the rebels, diplomats say.
The monarchies are frustrated with President Barack Obama’s light touch approach to the war – relying on local fighters instead of large U.S. military deployments or missile strikes.
President-elect Donald Trump poses an intriguing contrast.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-backers-idUSKBN1491ZR
We will see if Trump goes against the MIC and putthe squeeze on KSA 🙂
continuing the policies of Obama …
that’s the part that puzzles me, admittedly, and I never expected him to walk over water. … Although I was highly pleased about the Iran deal, never mind the resulting increased “raised security aid” for US taxpayers it may have resulted in:
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/09/13/politics/us-israel-military-aid-package-mou/
But strictly, I agree – at least to the extend I am able to grasp matters. Ultimately Trump beyond being a man of business, real estate and beyond, is as much a foreign policy nitwit as Obama was. One of the main Anti-Obama talking point during his campaign.
Or maybe you explain, maybe along the lines: why Obama was worse then Bush jun..
You expect him to pursue liberal policies?? That was for Dear Leader who had 8 years. And what kind of peace did he negotiate in the Middle East?
Expect the pendelum to swing the other way for the next 4 years. Elections have consequences.
Notice how all of that “THE RUSSIANS DID IT” noise has ceased?
Colonel, you speak Arabic so is this true?
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2016/12/assad-abu-khalil-just-as-they-cover-up.html
“Assad Abu Khalil — Just as they cover up for Syrian rebels, Western media are covering up the statement by Turkish gunman
The propaganda war to control the narrative in the Western media continues.
All Western media that I looked are for some obvious reasons conveniently deleting the rest of the statement by the gunman in which he says: “We have pledged Jihad for Muhammad”.
Why is that not mentioned here: ““Allah Akbar! Do not forget Aleppo!” said the gunman, according to the widely circulated video. “Do not forget Syria! Do not forget Aleppo! Do not forget Syria! As long as our lands are not safe, you will not be safe!”
In fact, the Jihad vow is the headline for all the stories about the assassinations in the accounts of Syrian rebels and their supporters (in Arabic only of course) and even in the Huffington Post–the Jihadi Qatari Arabic version.
Chance omission in the Wester media that can be spun as anti-Assad instead of jihadist? Not likely.
Angry Arab News Service
Just as they cover up for Syrian rebels, Western media are covering up the statement by Turkish gunman
Assad Abu Khalil | Professor of Political Science, California State University, Stanislaus
Also
“‘Don’t forget Aleppo’ – Russian ambassador’s killer”. They almost are implying that he was noble in his deed. Can you imagine such headlines for the killers of US ambassador in Libya?
CNN had the exact same headline, as did other Western sites and papers.
Look how ALL Western media are romanticizing the Turkish gunman and ignoring his Jihad message”
AE
Have you been paying attention to what’s happening in the Chinese bond market and their shadow banking system recently?
You think we should continue with the sham One China policy? You know the Taiwan Relations Act is the law.
Statements like that make one wonder what the Mossad might have on McCain.
Don’t forget: John McCain took bribes. He took bribes from a crooked banker named Charles Keating. (Look it up.)
After the bribery scandal, McCain reinvented himself as “The Maverick.” This (allegedly) straight-talking persona was the vehicle he hoped to ride into the White House.
When that didn’t work, he went full neocon. But did he become a raving neocon because he’s a true believer, or did he do so due to some compromising material in possession of certain unsavory parties?
The same might be wondered about another nutty neocon, the “Old Lady From South Carolina,” although in his case, the compromising material involves underage boys. Or so it’s rumored.
What has Saudi Arabia got to do with US dollar as a reserve currency. Oh! The Saudis will price their oil in Yuan and sell their US Treasury holdings. If you believe that the Saudi’s pricing their oil in another currency will collapse the US economy I have great treasures to sell you.
The Chinese have sold hundreds of billions of USTs recently and did you even notice? Take a look at the USD/CNY chart over the past few months.
Buddhistharmony
He only said a few words in Arabic. they were in the nature of a statement of faith and then he started w rant in Turkish. pl
Babak Makkinejad
When do you think this perception will change ?
Thanks
David
David
Theresa May is cut from the same cloth as Cameron and Blair. It will be very interesting to watch her navigate Trump when Farage who she loathes is best buddy with him.
The western intelligence agencies and their political masters have been pursuing policies of duplicity with no real end game. Now they have to deal with Trump who is as far removed from their afternoon tea club as can be.
And what happens to their world if Wilders, Fillon, Le Pen or Beppe Grillo gain more political power in their respective countries. They want to normalize relations with Russia. Maybe they’ll work with Trump to reduce the NATO footprint.
China will invade and occupy Taiwan in the event of Taiwan declaring independence from China.
Making sense of Soraya Sepahpour-Ulrich, the author of the link…. I tried googling her since I had never heard of her before. Have not yet come across any reason to believe she knows what she is talking about in that article at the Saker’s site. Not impressed by her analysis. Archetypally, Trump as a Loki figure does not make sense to me either. Loki is not a leader of men, or gods.
Cro,
Yes I’m sure it’ll turn out to be a militant Presbyterian as this is not at all like the Nice attack.
The cognitive dissonance of the Left never fails to amaze.
Babak you should probably put down your paper bag before you hyperventilate yourself into a syncopal episode about what the God Emperor might do.
Croesus to you, Tyler. Mind your manners.
Maybe some distraught Lutherans, financed by Episcopalians, but surely not Presbyterians. No self-respecting Presbyterian would have hijacked a truck w/ Polish registration.
Waiting until you have the facts is normal. To call that PC is a bit weird.
It was probably meant as an insult because Loki traditionally was a shape-shifter, a trickster god, a mischievous god, a screamer of insults, a provocateur, a creator of quarrels and animosity.
That is distinct from US relations with Taiwan which is long and deep. President Eisenhower was mobbed during his visit to Taipei. One China is a sham in the context of the longstanding ties with Taiwan. All pretense. Who is being deceived? Not the governments.
Palantir has tracked Iranian weapons shipments, training, camps, etc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ooAUeTlzdU
In fact, Palantir seems to have an intense interest in Iran; tracking Iran has been the subject of several of the company’s presentations over a period of nearly 5 years. I wonder if the CIA contractee devotes as much attention to Israel? Whaddya think, Tyler?
Surely they can fire up their mighty Wurlitzer and figure out where the truck was hijacked; who dropped off the hijacker; who left the dead man in the truck; who scooped up the live man and shepherded him to safety.
Presbyterians are busy setting up poinsettia trees and robing children’s choirs just now; probably not Presbyterians.
Croesus,
This is a Shrill Language Police Free Zone.
Applying Occam’s Razor tells me that its likely one of Mutti Merkel’s Migrants up to their old hijinks.
I don’t know about the other three but Wilders is a Zionist Neocon.
Wilders is deeply in love with Israel. They would ask him to tone it down if they had something on him (outside blabbing about the Commisie stiekem which keeps an eye on dutch intelligent or the fact that he spends way to much time in the Israeli embassy) His campaign money comes without a doubt from American Neocons. I don’t know his opinion about Russia but i doubt it is love except in the if you don’t want Ukraine you must be a Putin-lover folly. When he was part of the VVD he was a cut social-security, anti-muslim, libertarian but the voter of the PVV is much more of the “Deplorable” kind so his general anti-religious is toned down and now he is “for” social security
China has the Turkmen so definite at war
Yes, there is a superficial resemblance. Which is ironically symbolic of the superficial analysis of Trump which she and many other supposed intellectuals repeatedly make the mistake of doing.
“From their experience or from the recorded experience of others (history), men learn only what their passions and their metaphysical prejudices allow them to learn.” — Aldous Huxley
“He is recruiting Iran and Syria and Iraq as the buffer states between the Russian Federation and the rest of Islam.” yes I agree, securing the vulnerable muslim underbelly, refusing NATO access to central Asia, this also the desire of China, one needs to secure and not to worry about her back and the other her belly. Russia was (fooled) slow to see this if Russia not needs to worry about her asian borders then she can concentrate on defending her European borders which she has more experience anyway. I think Georgia and Ukraine to sober up from the vodka party.
All
Pat Buchanan’s recent note strikes a chord with me. I am fully on-board to destroy the War Party in the US. The only fight we need to engage in overseas is to crush the Islamic terrorists.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-12-20/real-saboteurs-trump-foreign-policy
IMO, unless he offer a referendum that all Palestinians as well as Israelis can vote and decide what shape will be the future of Israel /Palestine nothing will be accepted by Iran. You don’t understand, for Iran, Israel is a wedge issue, Iranians believe US/EU are trapped in their own making of Israel, they use this valuable wedge to soften the Arab Sunni street against the Shia/Persians. Why would they want to give it up. They use Israel to have Hamas, Hezbollah and others as their friends and create a buffer zone for hostile west.
Charly
They may all be pro-Israel. I don’t know. From what I have read all of them want to normalize relations with Russia including removal of sanctions. That’s a big change relative to the current EU consensus.
Will an independent Taiwan not be an ally to China? That is the whole problem with the Two China policy. It can be managed in such a way by Beijing that China can recognize the independence of Taiwan without loosing to much face and after that the local situation is such that it is highly logical for Taiwan to form an alliance with China. It also allows China to attack political the occupation of Ryukyu by the US and Tokyo
Taiwan was still occupied by China when Eisenhower was president. That is the problem with the long and deep relationship
Are there Presbyterians in Germany? I don’t mean lost Americans but real Germans.
The Black Messiah is followed by the White Messiah; I am hoping for the Beige Messiah next.
That is what has happened in Northeast Asia as well; US is trapped there now; in my opinion.
In case you didn’t know, In-Q-Tel, which is the CIA’s venture capital division, is one of the investors in Palantir.
It is inconceivable for me at any time.
Uighurs, I think you mean? That has not penetrated the consciousness of Muslims – inside or outside of the Seljuk Boundary.
If Jihadists pay attention to anywhere, it would be India.
In that case, state cohesion of India cannot be assumed to endure.
Wilders is a Neocon but Dutch politicians are at the moment super anti-Russia so it may look from that perspective to be pro-Russia. There is also Ukraine. His kind of party have a department to stop neo-nazi infiltration out of need. It probably red-flagged Ukraine.
There is pro-Israel and pro-Israel. He REALLY cares about Israel.
Trump needs to un-make US Dollar as the world reserve currency in order to prevent the bankruptcy of the United States.
Ask MRW.
We shall see.
But to think that Trump can use Taiwan to extract any sort of concessions out of PRC is a dangerous delusion; in my opinion.
I am not against Trump, I wish him well. I just do not vest too much hope in the possibility of changes in the external relations of the United States.
Applying the art of the deal from the business world to international relations is not possible; the deals have already been made before he will have assumed office – all he could be doing is to either abrogate the earlier deals or try to work on their margins.
NATO is 300 miles from Moscow; is he unilaterally going to change that by withdrawing US from NATO? I think not because he would be going against the alliance structure through which US exercises power.
Will he remove all US military assets from Korea & Japan and tell South Korean, Chinese, Russians, and Japanese to deal with that situation?
I think not.
Will he strategically settle with Iran and thus revolutionize the position of the United States in the Muslim World? I think not, for that would mean that he will have become a infidel to the Cult of Shoah – his own daughter will have to renounce him.
As I stated before – he will have no choice but to play on the margins internationally.
That is in itself not a bad policy approach, you try to make some gains here and there, all the while concentrating on domestic issues that afflict and ail the United States.
alba etie
I don’t see that China has big problems with Trump, just the opposite. I think China is very happy with Trump scrapping TPP, and I’m quite sure Trump and the KPCh will sort out other stuff like Taiwan, too.
Whether the “Daily Briefings” are really useful or more like an excercise of spreading Borgist group think I don’t know since I don’t receive them. But Trump to me looks doing things a lot more clever than recent Presidents who were paying more attention to their “Daily Briefings.” And I also think Trump is speaking with Mike Pence who is receiving “Daily Briefings” and with Mike Flynn who I think also knows a thing or two about security and politics.
Russia / China
Off topic but Russia/China was mentioned here and I regularly read on Foreign Policy Establishment websites (the Borg), about this chasm between Russia and China. There is an assumption that Russia and China are in conflict and we in the U.S. can count on that while we do whatever we want.
Why is this so?
Russia / China:
Reasons for conflict:
1. They share a long border and they had a border war in the 1960’s. Apparently, China wanted more land but aren’t they over that by now considering the other issues they are dealing with?
Reasons they should cooperate:
1. I can go through a tedious list but everything pretty much comes down to them having common economic and security concerns because of the United States. We have been whacking Russia on the nose with a rolled up newspaper for decades but in China’s case we even announced that we were going to ‘pivot to Asia’. Why not just say, ‘China, we are out to get you, see what happened to Russia? Your next’. It is kind of like walking around in a ski mask and wearing a black turtleneck shirt that says, ‘burglar’ on it. Are we stupid or do we think that everyone else is?
Sorry for mini-rant, I am serious about my question. Is there some other big issue between Russia and China today that I am missing? I guess India is kind of a third wheel but even that does not seem insurmountable.
Thanks in advance.
Orange is the new Black,
elaine
That’s an interesting story. Is CNBCs sales pitch for russophobia now that Russia is bad because Russia is alledged to cause the Wall Street banksters and other uber rich western fraudsters – which we all hold so dear – the loss of some money? If it is so I doubt it will work. I think many poor people believing the story would praise Putin as being a modern Robin Hood instead.
But anyway I still think the terror attacks will work in the end as an argument for Trump that US-Russian cooperation to defeat the common terrorist enemy is the right thing to do even as the MSM trying to undercut that message with russophobic stories like these.
I’m not a fan of Huxley, but am now trying to read his work on the Thirty Years War, ‘Grey Eminence’, in order to fathom the eight million Europeans killed over religious differences.
The quote from Huxley in this book that sticks with me is:
“…the habit of committing atrocities had developed a general taste for atrocities…. cruelty as with gluttony the more you eat the more you want.”.
The ending phrase is my garbled google translation of the old French proverb that Huxley used.
Not much has changed in the world
Chris Chuba
You say: “Why not just say, ‘China, we are out to get you, see what happened to Russia? Your next’.”
Well, Secretary Clinton did something like what I think was in Russia and China received as the equivalent of a call for global jihad on Russia and China. CSM reported on July 6, 2012:
“Clinton says Russia, China should ‘pay price’ over Syria”
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0706/Clinton-says-Russia-China-should-pay-price-over-Syria-video
I remember that this call of Clinton, and the trouble Russia and China in the subsequent times suddenly got on a lot of unexpected areas were well noticed in Russia and China.
When you say that China and Russia have “common economic and security concerns because of the United States” I think it mischaracterizes the situation and Russian and Chinese thinking a bit. I think the leaderships of China and Russia see the problem more with the borg holding sway in the US, while with the non borg US they both would like to have friedly relations.
See for example the Chinese Global Times from 2014-2-16 on who China finds acceptable to blame for subverting major power relations. Quote begin:
“Using the Ukraine crisis to subvert major power relations between the US and Russia and their constructive joint action in the Middle East serves Israeli interests. It helps Israel and its neoconservative allies in the US and in Europe push for unilateral US military action against Syria and Iran.”
Quote end. Source: http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/842736.shtml
So, I’ld say the leaderships of China and Russia are likely quite aware of what os going on the USA, likely more then many only Borg media consuming Americans are themselves.
“Ask MRW.”
Yeah! The guy that believes government spending to infinity is the path to economic nirvana. History proves the opposite. He also claims causation between increase/decrease in government debt (spending) and GDP growth/reduction when no correlation even exists between the two data series. He has also noted he does not have the mathematical relationship between the two series. I can understand that since none exists.
However, I agree with him that the US government can never go bamkrupt since it’s debt is in a currency that only the Fed prints. The debt holders purchasing power is not guaranteed.
I also agree that being the reserve currency is not an unalloyed benefit that many conspiracy theorists claim. But they are different issues. In any case what has this to do with your claim that Trump can’t squeeze Saudi Arabia?
Was the mainland Chinese miltary occupying Taiwan at that time? Maybe my history is incorrect. I recall CKS was in power in Taiwan and Mao had the mainland.
Marcus get over it. The Left lost the election. Trump does not believe in Globull Warming. His EPA will reflect that.
And as far as a middle east peace plan is concerned, I personally don’t think Trump should get involved at all. That is for the belligerents to figure out. He should remain focused on destroying the Islamist terrorists in partnership with the Russians as they have the same agenda.
“PS Trump’s response to Berlin was disgusting.
I believe the attack was orchestrated by Mossad,..”
When you’re in tinfoil territory you should quit. Dude, one doesn’t need to be a KGB analyst to know that shooter screaming AllahuAkbar while murdering the Russian ambassador in cold blood is an Islamist terrorist. Similarly, as Tyler has pointed out it is rather easy to deduce that a similarly styled attack would have been likely perpetrated by people aligned to the same group. Especially since ISIS has been urging their followers to use trucks to mow people at public Christmas gatherings.
At least Trump’s deduction was logical. If that is disgusting in your eyes then how disgusting your assertion with no credible evidence that Mossad did it?
Interesting photograph from the Russian-Iranian-Turkish meeting in Moscow. The bodyguard of Iranian Foreign Minister Zarif is focused like a hawk on the bodyguard of Turkish Foreign Minister Cavusoglu. Is he expecting him to be another diplomatic assassin maybe.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0IM5YaXcAAlYnZ.jpg
I think Kunuri above asked the million dollar question – who benefits from the killing of Ambassador Karlov? Who supported Altintas, the killer? There are many accusations floating around in the world press – Daesh or al Nusra, Gulenists, CIA or MI6, Gulfies, Syrian proxies of the Americans or the Turks, the Grey Wolves, or Erdogan himself?
One of the regulars for coffee and donuts at our local bakery even suggested Putin had it done so that he could put Erdogan on a leash. I discount that, and most of those above except for the proxy groups and maybe the Grey Wolves. He did not kill or take hostage anybody else so that may (or may not?) rule out the hard core Nusra and Daesh. And Gulen, doesn’t he get blamed for everything? CIA is not that smart, and what is the benefit? I thought the Gulfies were on Erdogan’s side, why would they put him between a rock and a hard place? And Erdogan, is he that reckless?
What about the Grey Wolves, could they pull off something like this? They certainly have the motive. They have no love for Russia, some fought with the International Brigade against the Russians in Dagestan and in the Chechen Wars. Plus they are Pan-Turkist with ties to anti-Russian groups in prior Soviet states in Central Asia. Karlov was not well liked by Turkish nationalists, especially last year after he publicly told Ankara that Russia did not consider the PKK to be a terrorist organization.
http://rudaw.net/english/middleeast/turkey/19102015
Are their known Grey Wolves embedded in the Turkish Police?
Did you predict the US election result? I don’t think so. And here you are pontificating with absolute certainty what President Trump will do and what he can’t do.
Jack has said it better than me regarding the US dollar and reserve currency. Saudi Arabia can do didly squat financially if Trump decides to squeeze them. OK, a bunch of DC think tanks and the Clinton Foundation and even some Trump acolytes may not get paid. Who are they gonna run to protect their sorry asses?
Look, Russia’s economy is the size of Italy! Get it. They spend disproportionately on their military. This is a golden opportunity for Putin to come to an understanding with the US. They may never get it again. Putin will not blow a limited rapprochement for the whole enchilada. He’ll want to get the sanctions undone. Trump and Putin have a common cause to destroy the jihadists. You think May, Merkel and Hollande are going to have any veto on Trump’s actions. Hollande is on his way out. Both Fillon and Marine Le Pen in France want to have better relations with Russia. So does Beppe Grillo in Italy. IMO, you are going to be surprised what happens between Russia & US and consequently with the EU.
Once he and Putin get going destroying the jihadis, he doesn’t need to do anything else as far as the middle east is concerned. He can let the Arabs, Iranians and Israelis duke it out or come to a settlement. Contrary to your opinion, I believe the Iranian ayatollah will jump at any chance of being accepted by Trump as they too will know that he may be their best opportunity of coming in from the cold. Watch this space. 2017 could be very exciting for foreign policy geeks.
Well…
If Islam weren’t at war with everybody else (Dar Al-Harb) may be “perceptions” could change?
Thanks, David. Robert Cohen looks very interesting. We seem to share some basic concerns, in my case sometimes ‘new inquiry frontiers’ triggered by one or the other seriously deep puzzlements while encountering my ‘favorite’ Hasbara on Mondoweiss in the comment section. …
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/writingfromtheedge/author/rcohen/
the new President has very much deeper roots in American culture, and an enormously better understanding of it, than than the old.
I noticed that rootedness or roots surfaced quite frequently lately.
… To not go to deeply into the complex field of globalization/”glocialization” (Roland Robertson) versus the complexity of identity politics, or for that matter why the constant expansion of identity politics sometimes seems to irritate me …
I found this article quite interesting.
I would very much appreciate other’s opinions.
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2016/12/implications-andrey-karlov-assassination-161219225337066.html
And, completely without irony: Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah to all. I immensely enjoy the folks here.
Degringolade,
The article doesn’t go into how Erdogan is trying to ride two different horses at the time; something that is next to impossible to do and, even if you manage to, the ride will be brief for sure.
How can he take Turkey in an Islamist direction while, simultaneously, maintain the country as a reliable ally of westernized powers? And all the while develop his fantasy of being the new Caliph?
I would think that his dilemma makes him seen as a long term risk. Couple that with the insults to Russia + a Trumpist USA seeking Russian partnership (shoot down of the jet, assassination of the ambassador, meddling on the side of IS) and the only answer I can think of is that Erdogan has to go. Probably not today, but at some point in the next couple of years. He must be replaced with someone who values secularism above all else and who will be a solid partner in the war against IS, AQ, et al.
The assassin of the Russian Ambassador has been part of the Sultan’s security details (8 times) since the coup manqué of last July
http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/russian-envoys-killer-had-protected-erdogan-says-report-1273757114
And today the Sultan and his wife are playing Santa Claus to 7 y.o Bana Alabed and her brother:E Aleppo -supposedly Idlib – Ankara.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C0NTX8jW8AEwUKp.jpg
Rumours are that the family is not Syrian per se but Turkman
According to Erdo, Nusra is not a terrorist group since they are fighting ISIS 🙁
CKS is mainland China. Obvious not Red but also not a Taiwan-born Chinese. The Chinese Nationalists occupied Taiwan. Only a quarter of the population were refugees from China but almost* the complete government where mainland Chinese.
almost* because i expect some excuse-Taiwanese to have been in the government. I don’t know if that was true.
“Look, Russia’s economy is the size of Italy! Get it. They spend disproportionately on their military. This is a golden opportunity for Putin to come to an understanding with the US.”
As I said, you live in a dangerous fantasy world.
By the way, I never commented on the potential results of US Elections.
It is true that Iranians are always interested in settling with US but that is not in the cards.
Fortress West is not interested. In fact, in EU, they blame Iran for all Islamic militancy – from Chechnya to the Berlin attack. They are waging the Enlightenment Jihad – countries such as Iran should not exist – in their minds.
All right, have it your way, but US would then be following UK’s path to economic ruin.
@all
1. With regard to the probative value of shouting jihadi-type slogans when assassinating someone, Mehmet Ali Agca, the Turk who on 13 May 1981 tried to assassinate Pope John-Paul II, shouted pro-Palestinian slogans on the scene but those turned out to have nothing to do with anything. “Ağca himself has given multiple conflicting statements on the assassination at different times. … Attorney Antonio Marini stated: “Ağca has manipulated all of us, telling hundreds of lies, continually changing versions, forcing us to open tens of different investigations”. Originally Ağca claimed to be a member of the Marxist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), but they denied any ties to him.” He does seem to have had some connection to the Grey Wolves.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II_assassination_attempt
It seems clear that the present assassin of Karlov expected to die on the spot but that might have more to do with his medical or psychiatric condition–in the sense that he might have had some reason to accept a suicide mission.
2. It does seem very odd that all these jihadi’s leave their ID in the suicide truck.
During the Cold War, shadowy groups such as Arkane Kan (sic.) , Jitim (sic.?), Giladiv (sic. ?), and Counter Guerrilla were operating in Turkey, eliminating opponents of the government – Leftist intellectuals, Alveis, and Kurds – withe full knowledge and assistance of the government.
One definition of Freedom is Absence of Fear – the secularists failed in that.
It is not the US that leaves the NATO but Europe because they use him as excuse to leave the NATO and he allows it. The same with Korea. South and North Korea can have a peace deal tomorrow. The sticking point is not Northern Nukes but American troops in the South. He can be used by the South to get a peace deal in which the Americans are kicked out..
Sad, but true. ‘Grey Eminence’ is one of those books I feel I should read, and it’s on one of my Amazon lists, but I’d have to be in the right mood.
Right now after all the election hysteria all I want to do is enjoy quiet holiday time and play with my 2 new ocicat kittens… which I just brought home 2 days ago 🙂
Babak Makkinejad –
Those modern equivalents of the groups you mention are still at it massacring Kurds. Meanwhile the Turkish Army is turning Kurdish majority cities in the southeast to rubble that make east Aleppo look like a paradise. Erdogan is arbitrarily appointing Turkmen from Syria and Iraq as regional governors, city mayors, judges and gendarmes in that area and moving Turkmen families into the homes of displaced Kurds. Ethnic cleansing at its worst. In the west they are attacking legitimate Kurdish political parties that are in no way associated with the PKK.
Interesting article on Turkey Pulse about the Grey Wolves, many turning Takfiri in addition to being Turkish nationalists.
http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/02/turkey-syria-grey-wolves-emerge-as-jihadists.html
@all
Just to add a further point to 2 above, how easy is it for a 22 year-old Tunisian refugee to step inside the cab of a Scania tractor-trailer loaded with steel and drive it at all? I thought it took a while to learn the controls of these monsters. Was he a truck driver back in Tunisia? (Incidentally, the previous comment should have been a general comment; by accident it was attached the Degringolade’s remark.)
Ah yes, those bad old days. I am amazed at how times have improved under the islamist brotherhood. Per aspera ad astra.
IMO Ali Baba was lucky! He had only 40 thieves to deal with.
Ishmael Zechariah
All
Unlike a SST correspondent who claimed Mossad was responsible for the Berlin attack, the German authorities now identify the perpetrator as an Islamic terrorist. As Tyler noted Occams Razor led directly in that direction. And Trump’s comments were spot on and not “disgusting” as noted by this correspondent.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4054140/How-German-police-bungled-hunt-Europe-s-wanted-man-Asylum-seeker-23-wrongly-blamed-Christmas-market-massacre-jumping-red-light.html
Babak,
“Would Trump,…. countenance that? Never.”
Actually I think Trump would as he sees no damned reason the USA needs to risk nuclear war over Estonia or the Ukraine or any of the other ex-Warsaw Pact states. Remember also that it is Joe Biden’s son – the one who got cashiered from the USN – who sits on the board of a Ukrainian oil company not Trump’s.
Croesus,
some info on Palantir:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/andygreenberg/2013/08/14/agent-of-intelligence-how-a-deviant-philosopher-built-palantir-a-cia-funded-data-mining-juggernaut/#38965aff3da8
Bemused,
There’s a good chance those new Scania trucks are automatic and have power steering. I drove one the Army’s massive eight wheeled HEMTTs with no instruction whatsoever.
I think that the secularists’ and Kemalists’ failures in nurturing Liberty had a detrimental effect on the World of Islam – they did not discharge their duty to Muslim Civilization in as much as they used the same tactics as Hassan Sabbah to silence dissenting voices.
In that manner, they perpetuated the same evils that had afflicted Muslim polities since the time of the Seljuks, if not earlier. Kemalist Turkey could have been a model for other Muslim states to emulate. That was not to be.
And if you think she could not have served as a model, you would be wrong. During the heydays of AKP rule, Iranians would point Turkish practices to their own government and asking: “Turks are doing this and that – which you oppose illegally – are they not Muslims too?”
That was an argument that could have altered minds in Iran.
And likewise, all those Muslim dictators and autocrats and doctrinaire religious people, had there been a dispensation in Kemalist Turkey that was nurturing and developing Liberty, could have been challenged in their assertions that Liberty is License and must be suppressed.
BM,
Two questions:
1-What kind of “Liberty” do you aspire to, and where does it exist in the known universe?
2-Has it ever existed in any nation?
The followers of Kemal Ataturk were/are secular Turkish nationalists. We did not aspire to set a religious example to any.
IMO, the accomplishments of the tayyip, or of gulen, as well as the intellectual level of their “followers” need no discussion.
Ishmael Zechariah
To answer your question #1: Liberty is the Absence of Fear.
On your #2: The comparison, like many things empirical – such as Reynold’s Number – are relative. Turkey is not as Free as Spain, for example.
So you feel that you do not need discussion with the lesser people; for myself, I know that many of my own ideas and insights have been generated through this discussion forum. And Gulen and his followers, however sheep like they may be, have to be defeated on the plane of ideas.
This fear of discussion is another bane of not just Turkey but many other countries in the world.
I don’t think he was trying to pass truck driver test, he aimed to kill innocents in cold blood to do that all you need is to start and drive forward.
One should also add that the views of Arab Jews or Jewish Arabs (however they see themselves) is nowhere in sight in this discussion. A very substantial percentage of Israel’s population.
BM,
1-Those w/out fear are not necessarily free. Those who are “free” can be in mortal fear.
2-Spain, Torquemada, Franco, Guernica, Lluís Companys i Jover, Katalunya…fear, freedom, Reynold’s #?
3-gulen, tayyip, cultists, planes of ideas? You are fond of quoting “rectification of names”. Re-read Mencius. The question of whether a king or a robber was executed when Zhou was eliminated is still extant.
We can always debate whether islamists engage in discussion or verbal masturbation. The day these vermin will drown in their “accomplishments” is not far off.
Ishmael Zechariah
The truck reported to the driver’s company that it was driven in such a way it was about to choke and stall: the company called the driver who did not respond (because he was stabbed already).
You are quibbling.
I do not think we are engaging in verbal masturbation.
Kemalist forbid women in hejab to enter government offices.
They put that genius poet, Nazim Hikmat – in jail because he was communist.
How many times did Aziz Naseen was sent to jail for expressing his opinion?
I have started wondering if Franco’s Spain was not a freer country than Muslim state today.
I am not against Mustafa Kemal – only pointing out its failure in truly charting a new path – towards Freedom and Devolution of Power.
BM the “non-quibbler”;
Some thoughts in random order:
i-With all its faults, the secular nationalist state founded by Mustafa Kemal Ataturk had better governance than any of the islamist states you can point to today. It jailed dissidents, and executed secessionists. So what? We are not claiming it was ideal; just that it was a significantly better starting point from which an ideal might be sought if one were so inclined.
ii-The Turkey of tayyip and gulen is a good example of what the islamist females in hijab and their males can create. Do you think it is better than the Republic of Turkey between 1923-1948?
iii-Given the past (global) performance of islamists over the last 1/2 millennia or so, what makes you anticipate better performance from these in the future?
iv-A long time ago Turks used to be more progressive: in pre-islamic times Turkish women did not wear “hicab”. They rode horses, took part in councils and were considered worthwhile citizens. Sticking a woman into a sack to prevent males from being led astray seems like a quaint idea.
v-What would happen to someone who rejects islam and converts to Shamanism in Iran, KSA, or the Turkey of the hijabis?
Pax Vobiscum.
Ishmael Zechariah
Hood,
I will in this case.
Of course this is just a coincidence. Just like it’s a coincidence that all this occurred shortly after President Obama vowed to retaliate against alleged Russian “interference” in the recent presidential election. And just like it’s a coincidence that former acting CIA chief Mike Morell has publicly advocated “killing Russians
http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2016/12/20/death-in-istanbul/
.. and to add, the 7 year old speaking English very well!!! didn’t know they had english classes in E Aleppo!!!!
and if you get to see the full video, his dad looks like had a very recent clean shaven face! good for western viewers. perhaps his beard was in the pile of beards BM had posted a picture of.
TTG,
From what I understand Russia had not been allowed by the Turkish government to have their special protective services in Turkey to guard their Ambassador. If they had been in place, this wouldn’t have happened.
And something else, you can call it coincidence or what, but a week before the death of Putin’s driver in Moscow, and a week before the assassination of the Russian Ambassador to Turkey, former Asst DCI putz Morrell called on national TV for the Russians to suffer some pain or another. I’m sure that that particular has not gone unnoticed by the Russians. IMO Morrell is playing a very dangerous game with his clap trap.
The “reavers” released barbaric footage of the execution of two Turkish captives today, in the style of the Jordanian pilot.One of them sent as a spy,part of the gendarmerie intelligence, and the other a TSK private. Both were apparently captured in 2015, so they are not the two(SF iirc) captured a couple weeks ago. Hard to believe but this one dwarfs anything they’ve done so far in sheer savagery, releasing this a day after the Al Bab debacle of yesterday was obviously a calculated move to cause as much turmoil in Turkish society as possible. Erdogan shut down all social media access as it came out, facebook youtube twitter etc.
Serge –
One of the victims was reportedly a fan of the “reavers”, with tributes to al-Baghdadi on his Facebook page. Poetic justice.
The other was a poor Kurdish conscript. But that will never be admitted in Turkey.
mike allen-
He was a spy sent to IS territory, and caught(gendarmerie intelligence).This is why his facebook was styled that way(in a transparently amateurish fashion, I might add)