The recent murder of Darya Dugina, allegedly by operatives of Ukraine Intelligence and/or members of the Ukrainian Asov organization, raises an issue that has been at the back of my mind since the Ukraine crisis started in 2014; that is the continuing existence and potential growth of the Asov organisation. I am concerned that it may already be metastasizing into a long term international serial pest, despite its apparent usefulness right now. I would welcome Col. Langs opinion on this matter.
Australia has had to deal with at least two such pests since the second world war. The first was the Ustasa – a right wing Croatian WWII paramilitary organisation that established itself in Australia among wartime refugees and decided to pursue its objective – Croatian independence by terrorising the Australian Yugoslav community for at least ten years to the annoyance of the Australian police and intelligence community. An account of this is linked below:
The second, more recent, infestation involved members of the Armenian community deciding to renew their campaign of revenge against Turkey for genocide. This culminated in the assassination of the Turkish Consul in Melbourne before authorities could intervene.
I think it is safe to assume that members or sympathisers of the Asov organisation are already embedded in Ukrainian refugee streams and that supporting foundations will be laid in Western countries. “So what?” You say, ”We support Ukraine, who cares about Asov?” The problem comes when the policy of a Western Government diverges from Asov’s objectives.
Say, for example, that one or more European countries decide that they are no longer going to support the Ukraine Government and begin overtures to Russia for a negotiated political solution. We then can end up with political solutions that are unacceptable to Asov. The result of that is terrorism by Asov in Western Europe, think assassinations of diplomatic personnel, Ukrainian community leaders, Ukrainian community groups, infrastructure attacks and airlines. Bear in mind that there is considerable munitions that must be floating around.
I hope our intelligence services are way ahead of me. Col. Lang?
Going back to maybe before 2014, nothing about our intervention in Ukraine will have turned out to be a good idea.
Louis the 16th had the same conversation w/t Compte d’Vergennes. “It’ll all work out my Liege, so it will cost you some money Your subjects will pay. America will be free, Britain will be beaten, and you will be cool”.
Fast forward a few years and …
That’s essentially the argument for staying out of Ukraine’s fight for independence from Russia. Why should we give a slip about Ukrainians or any other Balt or Slav for that matter. Let the Russians crush the bunch of them. They really are just “little Slavs” right?
But I get this nagging thought in my mind about those French names who were killed at the redoubts at Yorktown. Some were named Roche. Do we turn our back on every one else? I guess that’s a question for each correspondent to answer.
The argument for staying out of Ukraine is different, but it did not work out well for Louis seize in America.
That you give a “slip” about Ukes, Balts and Slavs is nice, but the average American is who we should really be thinking about and his life will not be better thanks to our adventures.
Were you Pres. in 1916 would you have entered WW I?
I hope I would not have. Nothing good came out of it.
I cannot find the quote and may have it wrong, but had we not intervened, Hitler would have gone to his death raving in a Bavarian old soldiers’ home.
How could that not have been a better outcome?
Are you seriously saying that the American involvement in WWI was good?
With all the subsequent ignorant dismemberment of old empires, redrawing the borders to punish the Germans and the Hungarians sawing the seeds of future ethnic conflict?
There was nothing good about that.
The scientist in N Carolina who developed the gain of function’d Covid19 and requisite techniques is of Croation ethnicity.
From the chapter Weirder than your Grandma’s Elvis sightings and even Grandpa’s UFO hysteria is real so why not make a quick buck discussions with Mister Greenjeans at Captain Kangaroos house of 1-800-242-UFOZ pay numbers is
Croatia. Crow ate cha. Crow. Corvis. Corvidae. Covid.
Walrus. Clade Pinnipedia. Hmm. A Pleistone era pointer to Wikipedia?
nn. 1414 (simple alphanumeric substitution on Latin alphabet. 7777.
Hinting that the W in walrus became the W in Wikipedia. Invariant. But the nn or 7777 became k or 11. The 1s may simply be the digital era binary. Or a stutter. Something that repeats. The double n as “enen” could indicate a stutter, like when a stuttering child tries to get up to o (lmnop) but gets stuck at n. Could also indicate Joe Biden the US President who stuttered as a child.
11 and 7777 are both divisible by 11. Very uncommonish. Eleven El Eve n (El – a spirit and early semitic name of the deity. Eve. Our mother. n – won’t go away or negation?). Elf (German 11). Elf (magical being). Elfin. El fin. The deity again with a fin (not quite a flipper. Or El fin the deity end (finito). My pick: El Finn (the spirit is pointing to doubles especially double n. Clearly the oracle is saying The Divine Finn.
It’s the return of Huckleberry Finn. This is getting interesting.
And things that repeat. Who reaps peat and where? Reaps Pete. Uh oh. You sports fans know what that may indicate unless you are mere drones.
Probably Spare tape rather than reaps peat. Phew.
El Eve n. E leven
Definition of Loch Leven trout
: a trout native to Loch Leven and other lakes of southern Scotland and northern England that is a variety (Salmo trutta levenensis) of the European brown trout
broadly : any brown trout introduced into and established in North American waters
History and Etymology for Loch Leven trout
from Loch Leven, Scotland
Wasn’t Colonel Lang going on about Nessie of Loch Ness recently. I thought he was indicating Eliot Ness and a famous gangster with a mansion in Florida who got busted finally for tax evasion. Is that the administration’s secret reason for 80,000 new IRS agents? Is it code for an 800 number?
80,000 IRS. 800 00 IRS. There’s SIR, SOIR if zero is O. Is it a devious trick to signal ZORRO? If the game is ZERO ZERO ZERO ZERO How many Zorro’s there? The 8 in 800 could be two Zeros one atop the other. Making Six Zeros. That probably means something – which letter was hitting Zero twice on the old alphanumeric cellphones? Same question for earlier double letters above. Back to the drawing board.
What does all this numerology adjacent stuff have to do with anything other than an amusing mind game?
I think that flying saucers might be sending us signals in very hard to recognize and decipher ways. They may have used Colonel Lang’s word processor to send the Loch Ness post, for example, for a number of reasons. Their minds may work like the minds of creatures who use entirely different ideation than we can imagine. Like a dolphin (dolphin A) who broadcast a sound wave train that IS the reflected sound wave of what a well educated dolphin (dolphin B) would sense if he bounced his own beacon pulse at say, an underwater statue of a famous dolphin. The dolphin B actually “sees” (hears or however they do it) the statue of the famous dolphin – how else, he’s received an exact duplicate of what he would have detected if it were the real statue. Additional clicks of some sort might mean “twenty leagues past the Jose’s Sunken Titanic Grill.” (Not every sound wave pulse need be image simulating, some could be more like Morse code). So it’s like me somehow getting a signal to you which lights up your visual cortex with something I want you to see. Our dreams might be such – communication without direct knowledge thereof (dolphins are set up to know though).
Now for their nonhuman thinking process and workarounds they must devise if they haven’t decoded our language thoroughly. Thus they may know that many humans are skeptical about the exist of them – the aliens in Ufos. Similarly they may understand that the Loch Ness Monster is another creature who existence has long been in dispute. So causing a post on Nessie, if they reason in an associative metaphorical way (and play charades) is a clue by them that it is Us, the spacemen who are taking an interest in you (maybe because they monitor all discussions of their existence or not quite rigorously and it’s been a topic here). Or it could be a Cosmic Typo. They may have meant to post something about a unicorn, and the Cosmic word processor they access was a refit upgrade which was patched together from earlier virtual space Jeopardy games and it can only work via picking categories. So due to a bug or faulty upgrade when the said “weird things not everyone believes in for 500” (they had to, stranded with this machine like Gullivers) when they punched the buttons for Unicorns the contraption slipped and output the nearby Nessie post which at least was in that same category). Or their moles may have already memorized that Nessie on Tuesday means Unicorn, and Nessie on a weekend means UFO and Nessie any other day of the week is enemy action.
Obviously it could be far more complex and unintuitive but it illustrates my idea, hopefully. If used much more sophisticated codes yourself in your professional life it wouldn’t surprise me.
Oddly, that all makes sense to me. Another aspect that may come into play is what is commonly referred to as remote viewing or to anthropologists as shamanic ecstasy. I dabbled in it out of curiosity, both professional and personal. It’s something us humans can do to truly travel through space and time without limit. Who knows what other creatures, both terrestrial and extraterrestrial, can do.
a controlled OOBE and travelling/viewing in a physical plane, now that is every intelligence agency’s wet dream
Both the Soviet and US militaries sought to harness remote viewing for a while. There was some success, but certainly not enough to replace reconnaissance satellites and case officers. Maybe at some point in our evolution, we’ll master this stuff. Or perhaps someone else has beaten us to it. “So long and thanks for all the fish.”
It is tantalizingly similar to remote viewing. I used to think I did that too successfully but doctors told me it was more likely a form of eidetic or enhanced vision that I had been experiencing that was carrying over into my dream life; in addition to extremely taxing physical labor that I performed at the time which caused me to nearly become another species for awhile. I don’t know if you recall the record setting North East blizzard of the mid 1970s (National Guard had to bring food to snowed in older civilizatians in New England). I got stuck in the middle of a very rural area without car bc I had hitched somewhere. Then the blizzard hit. Several feet of snow in less than an hour with severe winds. Somehow I managed to walk ten miles to my house and survive (my childhood was in American Siberia in Upstate NY, maybe I acclimated?) through drifts up to my sternum in most places. Abominable snowman hallucination territory. Much farther than ten miles and I was a goner – no cars, no cellphones no pay phones (to what avail anyway?). Anyway to the point- when I got home I fell quickly asleep into the deepest and nearly most unusual dream experience I ever had. I experienced what was indistinguishable to me from some sort of astral projection or out of body experience. Traveling at hypersonic speed through the underbrush and forests of the Eastern seaboard from Ny state to Florida. Indistinguishable from reality in ways it sounds like you know of. It was mind boggling to be sure and so real I seriously wondered if there wasn’t truth to astral projection etc. Eventually I learned that certain head injuries can and do cause the sufferer to experience the sensation of motion though in fact stationary. The extreme cold and physical exertion with anxieties of possibly freezing under a snow drift not to be found till spring or being devoured by a bear (plentiful there) – it may have created similar conditions as the putative head injury symptoms. Since you were a professional military man involved in the most severe physical exertion under the sun (special forces US Army) your situations may have been analogous, I don’t know. Causing you to experience similar things. It could also be that the Carlos Castenada stuff has a lot of truth to it and only a life lived at the physical limits can put a human being in touch with the full range of his or her real faculties. Don Juan told Carlos there were various paths on the road to becoming a man of knowledge and that he chose first to put Carlos on the path of the hunter and then the warrior first, though it wasn’t necessary for some people but was for Carlos since he was so weak, soft and undisciplined. “If you become a man of knowledge you will be able to “see” in the sense us Yaqui sorcerers mean by the term. But if you are ever able to “see” and have not become thoroughly disciplined, your life would soon be at an end. Because if you actually see you will experience a world so profoundly beautiful and at odds with your entire experience and habitual practices and goals that you will understand instantly that there is no point anymore in doing anything ever again. Therefore you were put on the path of the warrior so your relentless discipline would rescue you and you could continue your life despite suddenly understanding how pointless it is. You would rise, shine and cook breakfast despite it all. Unfortunately you were too weak and too soft and didn’t get you to where you could see at all though you constantly told me and Don Silvio that you had due to the power plants we gave you. That’s why we laughed at you.” Rough paraphrase from books read thirty years ago.
I could tell you other truly more unusual experiences but suspect you have your own too. I’m simply saying maybe it isn’t astral projection or Out of body experience. Realligning the fibers passing through Don Juan’s “accumulation point” may be a better take. A neurologist would laugh me out of his office.
Hallucinating under conditions of exhaustion and stress is fairly common. Ranger school puts its students under conditions of exhaustion, hunger and mental stress to simulate combat conditions in its mission to train small unit combat leaders. Having ranger students standing in front of a big cypress tree in a swamp trying to insert coins in order to get a candy bar or soda is a common occurrence. One night I told my ranger buddy that we ought to go into this house we were passing as the owners were sure to feed us. There was no house and we were the only souls stumbling around on the top of that dark, cold north Georgia mountain. The odd thing was my ranger buddy agreed with me.
The same phenomenon is what happens, I believe, in many of the world’s vision quest rituals.
Interesting discussion. I know the military has studied such things. I recall an interview with the general who was in charge of the program that got derided as men looking at goats. Here is one way I might imagine the use:
Take an ancient power, say Egypt. And construct a model of the known world, including major cities, waterways, ports and ships. Your spies bring back actual pieces of the major buildings, works and ships to create a model of the world with real connections built into it. They also capture personal items from key individuals.
Back at the temple a dedicated priesthood contemplates this model of the world and individual priests are assigned specific target areas. It would be best for these priests to have visited or even lived for a while in their respected regions of responsibility.
The priests would develop their intuitive abilities and regularly use some type of oracle each day. They would work on developing insights into their target regions and develop these through constant feedback with your spies. Beyond getting into your competitors decision cycles, they will try to get into their minds, developing hypnotic visions to influence their targets, reinforced by other intel layers.
This world model would allow you to know your rivals and develop influence campaigns. It could also be used magically, in event of war, to model the destruction of your enemies at the astral level, by working your forces against their models and supporting your forces in the field. Now, that would be fun.
Only someone who has experienced the rigors of a northern NYS winter would understand your vision. The snow moves east across Lake Ontario, picks up water, and passes unhindered through the Mohawk Valley. It smacks dead into the Hi Daks and threatens all in its path. Wife and I were caught on rt. 9 traveling north of Bolton’s Landing on Lake George shore. W/I minutes we were in a white out, snow pouring down in great accumulation. I knew that road. Hitched it as a teen and thought, is this where my wife and I will rtn to nature. I walked in front of the car, holding the head light, acting a guide on, while she slowly drove until we reached a lonely motel. I broke a window to get in and settled w/t owner the next morn. Those haling from gentler climes like Virginia or the Carolinas don’t understand an Adirondack snow. Some day I’ll list all the extaordinary Americans who chose to spend their last years in the NY wilderness. NYS, its more than just a city.
Absolutely. And thanks. For what? After all these decades your post finally explained to me the real meaning /cause of my “astral projection” travel of my “astral body” at mach 12 to Florida after hiking miles in a record setting blizzard. I just wanted to be in a warm place! The crazy rapid speed? Probably recollection or ideation of the same thing the only way it could actually be realized – jet travel.
“it may already be metastasizing into a long term international serial pest”
Stirring up shit usually does not smell too good.
What a surprise!
And what about the assault of the global communist in western countries? There will, by nature, be a corresponding counter force. Could Azov be it?
If Germany et al were to capitulate and unsanction Russia, the German gov’t (and/or others) may see the Asov group as useful idiot proxy. A deniable, unofficially sanctioned terrorist group, a la MEK. And perhaps a continuing unofficial conduit into Ukraine, a la Iran Contra.
That is, until Asov blows up Nordstreams 1 and 2, plunging Europe into immediate energy crisis.
A short video was released by the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) about a suspect in the murder of Darya Dugina (scroll down a little). It shows the suspect entering Russia, appearing at the apartment building where Darya lived, and leaving Russia. It also shows the suspect’s car displaying different license plates while in Russia.
The same video on an Italian website.
I don’t want to go back too far in the past because the history of Ukraine-Poland is very complicated with changing borders by war, conquest and expulsions.
The last period between the two wars will be enough for us.
This little corner of the world was home to anti-Polish, anti-Ukrainian and anti-Soviet madmen. All of them agreed to seek to exterminate each other and all of them agreed to eliminate the Jews .(Yes, the anti-Jewish mood in the USSR was well shared although hidden). The issue was not so much the ethnic groups, which were generally industrious and peaceful, as the pseudo-intellectuals who sought to rally their crowds to their follies.
Then came 1944-1945 and the heavy hand of the Soviets.
All of a sudden, the underground and clandestine struggle was taken in hand by Western organizations and acquired a legitimate veneer. Since they were lousy underground fighters, all those who did not flee to the West were caught or pardoned (mainly by Khrushchev). It has to be said that their ideologies were nothing but very simplistic and drastic, nothing that could win battles.
Now monuments are erected in honor of the multiple eradicators, as long as they are anti-Russian.
Azov and many others are their direct offspring. The old tradition of bad fighters is maintained, as Donesk and Lugansk since 2014, and Mariupol give good examples. They have once again shown that killing civilians is a very bad form of military training.
have read (don’t know these guys personally) that the Azov Battalion is the most fearsome military org. around. They just can’t be meaner or better in military fights. What I read about Mariup0l was they went down to the last. Is this untrue?
The Azov battalions, there are two, both fought well. However, there are many Ukrainian units that continue to fight just as well and just as bravely. Here’s an account of some of these units during the battle for Kyiv in a recent WaPo story. This is an archived version, so no paywall.
Yes, it’s untrue. The Azov in Mariupol did not go “down to the last.” About 2k surrendered at Azovstal steel plant. Or so they say.
They did as ordered by Ukrainian command in Kyiv.And ther were a lot of Ukrainian Marines and other forces among that 2,000
Been ill, sorry for the delay. As you must know, terrorism, that is politically motivated violence against true civilians, is a weapon of the weak, poor and defeated. Strong countries or movements do not employ it. They have air forces. The weaker Ukraine gets vis a vis Russia the more you can expect to see this. Is it an internal problem for Australia. I am sure it is. The best you can hope for is a decision on the part of terrorist groups not to attack Australia rather than just use it as a base.
PL my initial thought was to say yes, the weak, poor, and defeated have little else but terrorism to influence the public. But Pat said strong countries. What about strong nations or cultural groups which transcend a country. I “think” one of the premises of Hutchinson(?), several years ago, was that the era of the nation state is declining and the world is reverting to conflict b/t cultural groups. Of course I am talking about Islam. Islamic domination is a movement. You said strong countries AND movements do not use terrorism. Is Muslim terrorism the product of a strong int’l movement?
Various definitions and descriptions of terrorism exist.
A state, whether strong or weak, may opt to use political violence against civilians within most definitions. Individual groups within a country may also use terror against civil authorities in order to destabilise a country, and create an atmosphere of fear and mistrust through a sensation within the general population of being unprotected. ‘Gladio’ used terror back in the seventies to feed a call for repression within NATO countries, using false flag terror attacks.
Azov is widely seen as an organisation which became embedded within the military, but which actively used violence against political opponents, as well as government officials before, and after 2014, in order to ‘strong arm’ state representatives to do their bidding. National heroes they admire are no advocates of democratic rule, to say it politely. Multiple stories emerged about Azov killing regular soldiers who had their doubts about this war, or the way it was fought, although that could be Russian propaganda, since the western media won’t touch stories like that, and no independent body is showing any interest.
I suspect this has been developing from the beginning. Yes, “Ukrainians hate Russians,” because it is currently politically popular, but I’m sure many of those weapons were stashed away for all the other age old conflicts. Apparently even the Pope isn’t immune to error against the wronged. Given the war will be stalemated over the winter, as Europe freezes, one can only imagine the conflicts this will spawn, as the political establishment implodes.
JM can you think of any reason, other than popularity, for Ukrainians to hate Russians?
I’m sure there are lots of reasons, but the reality is we all have many passions, positive and negative.
To culture, good and bad are some cosmic conflict between righteousness and evil, while in nature it’s the basic biological binary of beneficial and detrimental. The 1/0 of sentience.
That’s because it’s the function of culture to get everyone acting as a larger social organism. The herd.
Meanwhile a spiritual absolute would be the essence of sentience, from which we rise, not an ideal of wisdom and judgement, from which we fell. While the top down father figure has been a useful social and political device to get everyone under control, ideals are not absolutes. When you have an entire culture founded on the principle that my one and only is the only one and only, it is naturally conflicted.
Remember democracy and republicanism originated in pantheistic cultures. The many as one. To the Ancients, monotheism equated with monoculture. One people, one rule, one god. The Romans adopted a monotheistic sect as their state religion at a time when the Empire was solidifying and remnants of the Republic were faded. It was the original global, one world order.
So now we’ve reached the edge of the petri dish and our linear, goal oriented culture has to come to terms with a reality that is cyclical, circular, reciprocal and feedback generated.
Society is not just one big node. It’s node and networks and whatever survives and adapts to the bottom up reality is the way it is, not some top down imposed on everyone global fiat. As the non West is saying, nations working together, not some global order, imposed by those controlling the medium of exchange.
The Ustashas murdered in Stockholm during 1971. the Yugoslavian ambassador Vladimir Rolovic. Today the murderer of the ambassador the Croat terrorist Miro Baresic has a grand monument in Croatia.