"Galicia and Lodomeria was not officially assigned to Hungary, and after the Ausgleich of 1867, it found itself in Cisleithania, or the Austrian-administered part of Austria-Hungary. The full official name of the new Austrian province was Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria with the Duchies of Auschwitz and Zator. After the incorporation of the Free City of Kraków in 1846, it was extended to Kingdom of Galicia and Lodomeria, and the Grand Duchy of Kraków with the Duchies of Auschwitz and Zator (German: Königreich Galizien und Lodomerien mit dem Großherzogtum Krakau und den Herzogtümern Auschwitz und Zator). Each of those entities was formally separate; they were listed as such in the Austrian emperor's titles, each had its distinct coat-of-arms and flag. For administrative purposes, however, they formed a single province." Wikis below
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Contrary to the American habit of thinking that borders, flags and passports a nation do make, modern Ukraine is a new state largely created by the USSR.
Western Ukrainians tend to be descendants of the people of the Austrian province of Galicia.
They are usually oriented toward the West, are either Roman Catholic or members of uniate Catholic churches and speak Ukrainian as their mother tongue. People in eastern Ukraine are often oriented toward Russia, are Orthodox in religion and native Russian speakers.
In WW2 the people in former Galicia were often enthusiastic collaborators with the Germans in the hope of regaing a sovereign identity. In the course of that collaboration many committed mass murder against the usual victims of the Nazis. A great many of the real fighters in the present revolution are members of nationalist groups who look to the WW2 example for inspiration.
It increasingly seems possible to me that Russia will intervene post Sochi on behalf of Yanucovich who they will say is the legitimate president of Ukraine. He is now in Kharkiv (Kharkov). This is in NE Ukraine. That is probably an indicator of Russian intention unless something dissuades them. pl
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_%28Eastern_Europe%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Galicia_%28Eastern_Europe%29
Russia has huge economic leverage over the Ukraine. Short to medium term nothing can change that.
Putin will try to keep it whole and to have someone he can work with in control.
The “west” is now enthusiastic that Tymoshenko has been released from jail. They forget that she was in jail for a gas-deal that favored Russia.
Putin could well go with her instead of the despised “doormat” Yanukovich.
Any signs of RA units massing/re-deploying? Maskirovka in play?
Countdown to when Russia seizes the Crimea again?
Colonel Lang,
In response to a question you raised on the previous thread on this subject. If it were possible to engineer a clean break, then undoing the creation of a unified Ukraine by Stalin would clearly be the least worst option.
A difficulty is that divisions in Ukraine overlap in complicated ways. I have a ‘worm’s eye view’ of this, through various odd family links.
A few years back, someone I have known for many years married a woman from Lviv in the Western Ukraine – a focal point of the current unrest. Her own background is complex. On her mother’s side, her grandfather was a kulak, who went out into the street in Smolensk shortly after the German invasion, and was never seen again. His daughter ended up living in a hole in the ground across the river from Stalingrad, making shells. It was a relative in the NKVD, if I recall right, who suggested to her after the end of the war that as Smolensk was rubble, she might go to Lviv, which was intact.
There she met and married a Ukrainian railwayman – railwaymen were a working class elite in the old Soviet Union – who had a close relative who had been in the SS Galicia Division.
Most of the time, my old friend’s wife is a fervent Ukrainian nationalist. When however she wants to put forward, vehemently, the exact opposite point of view to the one she argued with equal vehemence the previous day, she will tell you that it is a Russian woman’s prerogative to change her mind. And after a few drinks on New Year’s Eve, she will sing you the Red Army soldiers sang.
It was necessary for my friend and his new wife to go Kiev to get her immigration paperwork sorted out – and as I had been involved in this, my wife and I flew out.
Time and again, she would waiters and waitresses, and others, in Ukrainian. On every occasion, without exception, they responded in Russian.
There is, however, absolutely no reason whatsoever to infer from this that people in Kiev – at once the starting point of Russian civilisation and the most ‘European’ of cities in the old Russian Empire – have any desire to be back under the control of Moscow.
Likewise, the notion that Yanukovich is a pawn of Putin is BS. The Eastern Ukrainian oligarchs, of whom he is a representative, have their own interests and concerns – and in addition, the available evidence she suggests that Yanukovich and Putin can’t stand each other.
What characterises the prim and sanctimonious academic elites which increasingly dominate both in the U.S. and the West in general is an absolute disinterest in the human experience of others. And if one suggests to them that they might attempt to come to grips with a catastrophic chain of events which turned Ukrainian, or Russian, or indeed German teenagers into mass murderers – they would probable faint and reach for the sal volatile.
In the first volume of her memoirs, Nadezhda Mandelstam, widow of the poet Osip Mandelstam, who paid for his life for his extraordinary poem denouncing Stalin, remarked on ‘the way we have scurried to and fro in the twentieth century, trapped between Hitler and Stalin!’ There is also a quote from her, which I cannot at the moment trace, which is something like: if you give a teenager a gun and tell him he is right to kill people, he is capable of anything.
People in the United States who want to turn the history of Eastern Europe into simple morality plays of good versus evil are, in my view, deeply dangerous, and dangerous in particular because of their patent lack of any genuine moral sense. Increasingly it seems to me, moreover, that of the ‘tribe’ of the prim and sanctimonious who have our destinies in their hands, Barack Obama is a natural leader.
“Any signs of RA units massing/re-deploying?”
Why should they?? Ukr armed forces have just demonstrated that they are useless against citizen militias, which are forming in the East. If the East wants to go, neither the Ukr armed forces nor the western neo-nazis can stop ’em and the RA has no need to lift a finger.
Is there any chance that the Russians and Russian aligned Ukrainians might simply try to split the Ukraine into it’s western aligned Ukrainian speaking and eastern aligned Russian speaking parts? From the Russian perspective, they’d keep the Crimean Peninsula and access to the Black Sea that’s strategically vital. They can then leave the Western portion for Europe to deal with as it will.
B
BHO and Leader Putin were on the phone one hour yesterday – regarding Ukraine . Wonder what was said .
All
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/14th_Waffen_Grenadier_Division_of_the_SS_(1st_Ukrainian)
pl
You wrote:
“People in the United States who want to turn the history of Eastern Europe into simple morality plays of good versus evil are, in my view, deeply dangerous, and dangerous in particular because of their patent lack of any genuine moral sense.”
Is this not equally true – or perhaps even more so – about EU.
How much responsibility does EU and specially the EU troika of UK, Germany, and France bear for what is happening in Ukraine?
The almost certain outcome of the events in Kiev; that is the de facto or de jur partition of Ukraine; in what way does it server US or EU?
Will not EU and US have to essentially support Western Ukraine as a dependency – like Kosovo or Bosnia-Hercegovina – indefinitely?
Or until Russia kicks them out in a few more years?
Wrecking other countries with nothing positive to offer – like in Syria and in Libya – seems to be the most that US and EU can achieve; in my opinion.
I agree with you.
I think that already has happened; Ukraine has fractured – de facto – and very likely Crimea will revert to Russia – again de facto.
All
I think it shows that the nation-state system which was created after the Thirty-Years War to solve problems in Central Europe and then imposed on the rest of the world, is losing relevancy and the loss of legitimacy gives rise to tribalism and other political relationships.
My guess is that Putin is about to give the E.U. a very bloody nose shortly and offer America the same.
How long would it take for Russian armoured units to get to Kiev?
Could Russia enforce a No Fly zone over Ukraine?
Is the EU prepared for a massive influx of refugees from the Eastern Ukraine as they flee from Eastern Ukraine Russian supported militias?
This whole situation reminds me of the Wests total impotence when Hitler dealt with Czeckoslovakia and Poland. How many EU armoured divisions are sitting on the Polish border? What is to stop Russia splitting the country on the line of the Dnieper?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/02/22/us-ukraine-crisis-regions-idUSBREA1L0KH20140222
This showed up in my feed after reading your comment. The question on partition seems to have moved from “If” to “How”. It also seems to increase the odds of conflict.
@Babak Presumably, in that case, post-separation Ukraine gets Odessa Oblast with, of course, the Port of Odessa while Russia gets Crimea with Sevastopol, no? Both keep access to the Black Sea for their respective purposes.
All,
Remember that the Crimea was part of Russia proper until Krushchev gifted it to the Ukraine in 1954. Then the Supreme Council of Russia ruled in 1992 that the Crimean region had been delivered to Ukraine illegitimately. The borders in that part of the world have been in flux for centuries, including quite recently.
Colonel,
What is striking about Kiev is that medieval arts of war have been transformed into modern urban protest. The demonstrators wanted to be killed but maintain control of the Freedom Square. They succeeded. This takes money, training and a cause worth dying for.
I agree that at best Ukraine will be split apart like Serbia and Russia will be mollified by taking control of Crimea. Still, true believer NGOs are pushing assertive and dangerous anti-Russian and anti-Iranian policies from Syria to the Balkans.
I was raised with the justifications for not intervening within the Warsaw Pact nations during the Hungarian Uprising and Prague Spring. The reasons for avoiding a nuclear war with the USSR are just as valid today as then.
I must repeat David Habakkuk’s post: “The policies adopted by the Americans and Europeans towards Iran, Syria, and Ukraine seem to involve the worst of all possible worlds: a patent lack of concern with the physical suffering they inflict, combined with a complete absence of cold Machiavellian calculation about likely consequences.”
Maybe they’d rather not physically seize it if they can retain unrestricted naval basing and full access without physical posession? If so, perhaps countdown would only begin if Ukraine tried making any changes to current basing rights and access. Russia would then have all kinds of economic leverage to reverse Ukraine’s decision, such as suddenly stopping all flow of gas without any prior warning in late Fall. “You want gas? We want access”.
All,
I’ve seen reports that regional leaders in both the East and West Ukraine are already making noises about a partition of some sort, even if it’s a federation in which the East can make a separate agreement with Moscow. If I were in Putin’s place, I’d be thinking about that as a first move. Assure the East Ukraine that economic assistance will be provided and that military assistance to maintain order and security is standing by if needed (think Abkazia and South Ossetia). Don’t cross the border unless it becomes necessary. Tell Western Ukraine that Russian economic assistance will not be forthcoming as long as bandits are in control. Then see how the R2P harpies, the EU and the “bandits” in Kiev react. The goal is to avoid a complete descent into complete chaos in the region and to maintain a firm control of the Crimea.
David Habakkuk–
“Hope Against Hope”. I first read it over 30 years ago, and it’s always stuck with me as one of the greatest and most moving things written about the individual and totalitarianism.
In that book, she also made the statement, to paraphrase, that under Stalin and his crimes, she and the Russian people had lost their sense of awe.
I won’t insult anyone by pretending that life in the US bears much resemblance to life under Stalin, but only to say that given the descent of the US since 2000 in terms of the deterioration of civil liberties and the now institutionalized lawlessness of the financial elites, among other things, that nothing whatsoever that our government presently does surprises me. I no longer am awed by the evil at work.
Crimean history is quite complicated. It is important to Russia due to the Black Sea Fleet being based there [Sevastopol]. It may well revert to Russia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimea
Crimea is now an autonomous parliamentary republic, within Ukraine,[6] which is governed by the Constitution of Crimea in accordance with the laws of Ukraine. The capital and administrative seat of the republic’s government is the city of Simferopol, located in the center of the peninsula. Crimea’s area is 26,200 square kilometres (10,100 sq mi) and its population was 1,973,185 as of 2007. Crimean Tatars, an ethnic minority who in 2001 made up 12.1% of the population,[9] formed in Crimea in the late Middle Ages, after the Crimean Khanate had come into existence. The Crimean Tatars were forcibly expelled to Central Asia by Joseph Stalin’s government. After the fall of the Soviet Union, Crimean Tatars began to return to the region.[10] According to the 2001 Ukrainian population census 58.5% of the population of Crimea were ethnic Russians and 24.4% were ethnic Ukrainians.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crimean_Khanate
Crimean Khanate, or Khanate of Crimea (Crimean Tatar: Qırım Hanlığı, قريم خانلغى or Qırım Yurtu, قريم يورتى; Russian: Крымское ханство – Krymskoye khanstvo; Ukrainian: Кримське ханство – Kryms’ke khanstvo; Polish: Chanat Krymski; Turkish: Kırım Yurdu or Kırım Hanlığı), was a state ruled by Crimean Tatars from 1441 to 1783. Its khans were the patrilineal descendants of Toqa Temür, the thirteenth son of Jochi and grandson of Genghis Khan. This khanate was by far the longest-lived of the Turkic khanates that succeeded the empire of the Golden Horde.[1]
Golden Horde = Altin Ordu in Turkish. Ordu means army in Turkish and the word Urdu [language of Pakistan] also derives from this word, in my understanding.
Also, In my high school history classes, I remember reading about WWI in Galicia and Ottoman army participation in battles there, as part of the alliance with Kaiser’s Germany. What made this confusing is that there is also a Spanish province, called Galicia!
TTG! Where was NK born?
Mr. Kodlu, very interesting information about the forgotten Galicia front during WW I. My late father was a Staff Officer in above mentioned 15th Corps of the Turkish Army during early 70’s, based in Izmit. As I looked it up, I found out that one of the Corp’s regiments was 72nd Infantry Regiment, which my father commanded for 3 years as I remember, some of the best times I ever had as a child playing around the base all day.
Because of my father’s position I and my brother were often taken to the US-NATO base in Karamursel, which was my first contact with American culture, as we made friends easily with our American counterparts. That world had awed and amazed me, as it still does.
walrus wrote: ‘How long would it take for Russian armoured units to get to Kiev?”
I would be asking, if I were Russian, just how long will it take before they can LEAVE Kiev? And how many soldiers?
Babak Makkinejad,
If I gave the impression that I was suggesting that I thought that this shambles was the work of Americans rather than Europeans, this was sloppy – I most certainly don’t. What I was trying to make was a point about the mentality of the ‘R2P’ crowd, not about responsibility for what is happening in Ukraine.
It may be that one should be cautious about prejudging the question of whether the outcome in the Ukraine is certain. It is worth at least reflecting on the possibility that there could be considerations that make the position of the nationalists stronger than it might look, at least in the short term. It seems likely that the Eastern Ukrainian oligarchs do not want a rush to partition, which would be extremely damaging to their business interests. There also appears to be a good deal of sympathy for ideas of European integration among younger people in the East. And, a critical factor at present, Yanukovich inspires confidence and loyalty among hardly anyone.
As to your point that the US and EU seem rather good at ‘wrecking other countries with nothing positive to offer’, I largely agree with you. The only very small silver lining I can offer is that there is an increasing grassroots awareness of the foolish of our foreign policy elite in this country. This was the driving force behind the Commons vote against intervention in Syria.
Reverting to the Ukraine, if a split is averted and the pro-Europeans come to power in Kiev, they are then going to have to face the same problems with the terms proposed by the EU which were critical in persuading Yanukovich to refuse them and make a deal with Putin. What is still inadequately appreciated in the West is that Yanukovich quite clearly was looking for an agreement with the EU rather than one with Russia – the terms offered were simply too onerous.
It may be that better terms would be offered to leaders whom the EU and the US find more congenial. If they are not substantially better, such leaders may in turn find themselves the object of the bitterness and resentment felt by so many Ukrainians at the condition of their country and what is liable to be an accelerating economic collapse, whoever is in power.
For the background to Yanukovich’s rejection of the EU offer, see http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/19/uk-ukraine-russia-deal-idUKBRE9BI0E320131219 and also http://darussophile.com/2013/11/ukraines-turn-to-the-east/
Scott S.!
IMO the nation-state system was designed to control in part violence between religions and religious sects.
Perhaps emigration to the Western Hemisphere also a factor of decline in Europe’s inter-state and intra-state violence in last 400 years.
From the suppression of the Hugenots to the Holocaust religion minimised at least to some degree as Causus Belli but perhaps I am wrong.
Off topic but very interesting, Gustav was on of two incredible 80 cm railroad guns :
“Gustav was later employed in the Soviet Union at the siege of Sevastopol during Operation Barbarossa, where among other things, it destroyed a munitions depot buried in the bedrock under a bay.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwerer_Gustav
After all the Russian blood spilt in conquering and keeping Crimea- the Neocons and R2P’rs expect them to give it up? huh
Interesting and provocative thought about the goose and the gander. So what if the next occupy/tea party/ etc. has support from outside powers and attempts to replace our president democratically elected with 24% of the population against 23% or 25%.
Answer: Cant happen, the US is too powerful.
Today.
I have imagined a fractured US in the future either from total collapse of central authority and ability to project control over long distances (nuclear blasts destroy all electronic networks, etc.) or of the normal empire style – second power center arises and tries to seize control, with the second power arising internally. But now we have a new mode (e.g., Ukraine, Venezuela) to replace democracy. So have we created a new type of blowback?
ALL: I also imagine a future where Earth is an interstellar space empire with an english (rather american) projected culture, e.g., Star Trek.
WRC, He was a Ukrainian.
steve,
Both ‘Hope against Hope’, and its successor volume, ‘Hope Abandoned’, profoundly influenced me. In the latter volume, she discusses the fate of the Revolution in terms of Dostoevsky, and in particular his use of a very old Christian distinction between ‘freedom’ and ‘licence’. One might say his argument is a gloss on what St. Paul wrote the Galatians:
“You, my friends, were called to be free men; only do not turn your freedom into licence for your lower nature, but be servants to one another in love. For the whole law can be summed up in a single commandment: ‘Love your neighbour as yourself.’ But if you go on fighting one another, tooth and nail, all you can expect is mutual destruction.’
In the past, Western liberalism has been underpinned by a Christian understanding of freedom, together with other moral codes, largely of classical origin. An underlying premise of much modern economic theorising is that St. Paul is simply wrong. We shall see.
All http://www.themoscowtimes.com/news/article/russia-pledges-to-fight-for-crimea-if-ukraine-splits/495034.html
pl
TTG –
A plausible game plan for Karkov and Crimea partition was described a couple of days ago at http://vineyardsaker.blogspot.com/2014/02/high-level-consultations-between-russia.html
This blogger and several commenters appear quite well informed about what is going on in Ukraine, with little or no overlap with MSM reporting like BBC World News America or NPR.
There are several reports on this blog that appear credible suggesting that there has been substantial support provided to the (primarily right-wing) opposition by the National Endowment for Democracy and the Open Source Foundation.
I wonder if the White House crowd has really been tracking what Nuland and friends have been up to here? Hard to see an outcome that would benefit the US in any way.
WRC, TTG,
Actually Khrushchev was born in Kalinovka, a village in Kursk oblast, in Russia, very close to the current border with the Ukraine.
The family moved to the Ukraine, and as a young man Khrushchev worked in what is now Donetsk, was earlier Stalino, and at the time he knew it was called Yuzhovka.
The name came from its founder, the Welsh ironmaster John Hughes, who created the Russian iron and steel industry in the 1870s.
TTG,
I agree the Crimea will be a sticking point. The difficulty I suspect is not simply the presence of the Black Sea fleet, but the suspicion that if they abandon it the eventual outcome with be that it becomes a NATO base.
A possibility might be that, as Ambassador James Matlock suggested after the Georgian War might happen in the wake of an attempt to bring Ukraine into NATO, there would be demands for a referendum in Crimea on the validity of Khrushchev’s 1954 transfer of the country from Russia to the Ukraine.
It would not be necessary for Moscow to initiate such demands – they could come with a spontaneity which could quite well be genuine, from the Crimean authorities.
(See http://www.russiaotherpointsofview.com/2008/09/ambassador-jack.html )
As to other parts of the South and East, as I wrote in response to Babak Makkinejad earlier in this thread, it may be that, at the moment at least, the nationalists’ position is stronger than some are estimating. It might make sense for Putin to play a waiting game.
An interesting account of how Putin is likely to see developments has just appeared in the journal ‘Russia in Global Affairs’. Subject to correction by the likes of ‘Bandolero’, I see this as an organ of the ‘liberal wing’ of the Russian establishment.
Its author, Fyodor Lukyanov, who is editor-in-chief of the journal, and also ‘Chairman of Presidium of the Council on Foreign and Defense Policy’, brings out both Putin’s contempt for the Yanukovich and indeed the Ukrainian political elite as a whole, and also his contempt for Western elites. Excerpts:
‘In his [Putin’s] view, unrest must be suppressed before it turns into a huge fire. Unrest produces nothing but chaos. A weak state drives itself into a trap. Once a state falters, external forces will charge through the breach and start shattering it until it falls. The West is destructive. It is either unable to understand the complexity of the situation and acts in a primitive way, designating “good” and “bad” players, or it deliberately destroys undesirable systems. The result is always the same – things get worse. The desire to limit Russian influence and hinder Moscow’s initiatives is the invariable imperative of the Western policy…
‘Moscow believes that regime change would thrust Ukraine into anarchy and that it may collapse as a state in the end. It considers the Ukrainian political class, regardless of its political views, irresponsible and unprofessional. Ukrainian “peacetime” politics is reduced to endless intrigues of oligarchic groups, which have no idea about strategy…
‘Today Moscow is not seeking the collapse of Ukraine and is taking no special steps in this direction. But if the internal conflict escalates, Russia may opt to establish closer contacts with pro-Russian regions in eastern and south-eastern Ukraine. Russia is confident that the West’s interference and unilateral support for the opposition brings such a scenario closer.
‘Putin fears chaos. The main driving force behind his policy towards Ukraine will be not a desire for expansion, but a desire to reduce the risk of chaos spilling into Russia. To this end, anything goes – both defensive and offensive means.’
(See http://eng.globalaffairs.ru/redcol/Ukraine-as-viewed-from-Moscow-16413 )
It is difficult to explain how bizarre the current situation looks to an old-fashioned British conservative liberal like myself – a breed that once roamed freely in this island, but now appears as close to extinction as, say, the Sumatran Tiger.
If you had suggested to me, back in 1979, that I would find a sometime KGB officer articulating fundamental aspects of my political philosophy, while elites in London and Washington had become enthusiasts for revolutions of one kind or another, I would have said you were crazy.
The Responsibility-to-Protect ideas are for weak-minded people whose manipulated outrage is to be harnessed by the “Hard Men” of Col. Lang to advance this or that hare-brained geopolitical scheme.
US and EU are playing hard-ball, in essence, against the Shia Religion and simultaneously against the Rus.
That is madness since they cannot hope to prevail.
What I find interesting is that even the perfidious Albion, the epitome of hard-core realism, is in the same rut.
astonishing!
babak
They are not my “hard men.” pl
David Habakkuk,
I share your astonishment at seeing a former KGB officer as the prudent, sane grownup while our countries political organs seem to be overrun with wild eyed crazies. It’s not what I would have expected in 1979, either. I think Slavic and East European societies have a fare closer connection to their history than most Westerners. This phenomenon has its bad points in the continuation of some century old grudges, but it also makes for a solid foundation upon which leaders can make decisions today.
I don’t think Putin has an ability to intervene in Ukraine just now. Yanukovich is universally hated by everybody now – west for being a Russian pawn, east for being a wet noodle who just gave up – an Ukrainian Gorbachov. He is a liability. Party of regions is falling apart. Mass pro-russian demos did not happen.
Putin has no Ukrainian partner, except maybe in Crimea, and even there the pro-russian demonstrations are small, and their commitment questionable.
Short turn, some kind of “bloody shirt” incident could inflame eastern mood. Barring that, just rolling in the tanks uninvited is too blatant to do.
Medium term, the nationalists are probably going to alienate Russian-speaking population. They already passed a law about banning Russian as an official regional language, speak about banning Russian news channels and “de-russification”. If that goes on, and mixes with economic problems that are inevitable by now, the mood might harden in a year or two, especially if Putin gave encouraging signals. He probably thinks it fair game now that US/EU did the same.
David
I concur with you. My sentiments are exactly the same.
I think that over the past several decades western politicians that have risen to power are essentially PR hacks with not a single iota of character or statesmanship. Let alone any understanding of history or any depth on matters of strategy.
DH! WOW! You nailed it in these sentences quoted below:
“An underlying premise of much modern economic theorising is that St. Paul is simply wrong. We shall see.”
PL! I believe many of the German E-boats that dominated the Black Sea throughout WWII were crewed by Ukrainian Facists.
Thanks TTG!
Thanks DH! The Welsh did the same in the US!
TTG
The Soviet intelligence officers whom I knew overseas were coldly calculating men. pl
ALL:
Extract from wiki:
olgograd (Russian: Волгогра́д, IPA: [vəlɡɐˈɡrat] ( listen)), formerly Tsaritsyn (Russian: About this sound Цари́цын (help·info)), 1589–1925, and Stalingrad (Russian: About this sound Сталингра́д (help·info)), 1925–1961, is an important industrial city and the administrative center of Volgograd Oblast, Russia. It is 80 kilometers (50 mi) long, north to south. It is situated on the western bank of the Volga River. The population is 1,021,215 (2010 Census); 1,011,417 (2002 Census); 1,022,578 (1989 Census).
The city became famous for its resistance, and the extensive physical damage and death toll it suffered, during the Battle of Stalingrad against the German Army in World War II. Starting in 2013, for nine days every year, the city may be officially referred to as “Stalingrad”.”
Is the city discussed above in what is now the Ukraine?
Was Nikita Kruschev [sic] the Commissar during the Battle of Stalingrad?
Z! Check out a 70’s movie with Robert Redford called “The Candidate”!
Sorry; you are right.
I should have written: “the hard men to whom Col. Lang referred more than 2 years ago.”
I was trying to be brief, however.
Mr Habakkuk
Exactly right – this is the world turned upside down . It would be hard to imagine Prime Minister Thatcher or President Reagan mucking about in Ukraine in this cavalier & feckless fashion .
Wow! That was fast (the language law, that is). The blowback to the language law, if the new gov’t actually tries to enforce it east of the Dniepr, will be enormous….
This is clearly not a place where the US should get involved except to express hope that both sides will stop and think and find a way to move forward together peacefully.
Stalingrad now Volgograd was the site of the famous battle during WWII and where the Volga River takes a hook. That river Europe’s longest flows into the Caspian Sea.
The Dnieper the fourth longest in Europe flows to the Black Sea [west of the Caspian Sea] and splits the Ukraine.
Extract from Wiki:
Ukrainian (українська мова ukrayins’ka mova, pronounced [ukrɑˈjɪɲsʲkɑ ˈmɔwɑ]) is a member of the East Slavic subgroup of the Slavic languages. It is the official state language of Ukraine and the principal language of the Ukrainians. Written Ukrainian uses a variant of the Cyrillic script (see Ukrainian alphabet).
The Ukrainian language traces its origins to the Old East Slavic of the early medieval state of Kievan Rus’. From 1804 until the Russian Revolution, the Ukrainian language was banned from schools in the Russian Empire, of which Eastern Ukraine was a part at the time. It has always maintained a sufficient base in Western Ukraine, where the language was never banned,[5] in its folklore songs, itinerant musicians, and prominent authors.
The standard Ukrainian language is regulated by the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine (NANU), particularly by its Institute for the Ukrainian Language, Ukrainian language-information fund, and Potebnya Institute of Language Studies. Lexically, the closest to Ukrainian is Belarusian (84% of common vocabulary), followed by Polish (70%), Serbo-Croatian (68%), Slovak (66%) and Russian (62%). But even with Russian, Ukrainian language has some degree of mutual intelligibility.