White Supremacist Terrorism… Say it! – TTG

3000

Remember when Obama wouldn’t say the words “radical Islamic terrorism” and so many people had a fit? Now the words “white supremacist terrorism” are proving difficult for many to say. By my figuring, the killings at the Poway and Pittsburgh synagogues, the Charleston church, Gilroy and El Paso, as well as the Charlottesville murder of Heather Heyer by a neo-nazi are among the incidents that can be laid at the feet of the ideology of white supremacy/nationalism. At least the FBI has declared the latests act at El Paso as an act of domestic terrorism. In Texas today, George P’ Bush linked the El Paso shooter to “white terrorism.” Ted Cruz called it a “heinous act of terrorism and white supremacy.” Tomorrow morning, we’ll see what President Trump has to say. His rhetoric has encouraged and heartened white nationalists for three years, but I doubt he believes that trash any more than he believes anything else. He may surprise us tomorrow. 

So, what are going to do about all this? Thoughts and prayers? That wasn’t our answer to radical Islamic terrorism. Of course there isn’t an al Qaeda-like hierarchical group to target, but there is a white supremacist internet presence just like there is a jihadist internet presence. 8chan is the go to place for these shitheads. This place is full of far more virulent hatred and calls for violence that even 4chan. The shitheads who perpetrated the Christchurch, Poway and El Paso murders were avid participants of 8chan. Its own creator has called for it to be shut down. Cloudfare has stopped hosting it today. The FBI is monitoring it just like it monitors jihadist sites. No matter where these white nationalists go on the internet, they should be hounded and disrupted. Even if Antifa and others want to dox the living shit out of them, I’m all for it. 

This won’t eliminate white nationalism. The idea will always be with us. We all have tribalist and racist thoughts to varying degrees, but not the 8chan variety of white nationalism. Busting up their online gathering places is a good start. Perhaps enacting laws to establish white terrorist watch lists similar to potential jihadi terrorist watch lists would be prudent. The goal is to treat these extreme white nationalists with the same disgust as we treat jihadists, child predators and rapists. They should feel enough shame and, if necessary, fear to have the good sense to keep such thoughts to themselves and never act on those thoughts.

I expressed my thoughts on this matter three years ago when the worst we had to worry about was a black football player kneeling for the pledge of allegiance. God, those were simple days.   

What I do take vigorous exception to is the notion that I must cling to some all white version of Western civilization in a desperate attempt to save my white tribe from cultural oblivion. I’m proud of the many glorious social, cultural, military, scientific and technological achievements of Western civilization. They are magnificent. But I am not blind to its mistakes and shortcomings. There is no tribe out there with a monopoly on virtue, creativity, cruelty or stupidity.

On a more personal note, I resent the notion that my tribe cannot include all those black and Hispanic (mostly Mexican) soldiers I served with in the 35th Infantry. My rifle platoon was one third each black, Hispanic and white. The mortar section in my weapons platoon was almost exclusively Mexican and black. Surprisingly, tensions and fights were always between companies and battalions, not races. Yes, we were all members of our own respective ethnic tribes, but we were all willing to fight and die for our common tribe. I loved them as much as I loved my all white Special Forces Detachment and my extraordinarily multicultural SMU team.

To anyone who thinks I should fall in behind the banner of white nationalism or follow the hopping green hitler frog or whatever to save Western civilization, I offer the phrase taught to me by my first platoon sergeant, SSG Livingston, a black man, “Kiss me where it stinks, mutha fukka.”

TTG

This entry was posted in Current Affairs, TTG. Bookmark the permalink.

163 Responses to White Supremacist Terrorism… Say it! – TTG

  1. Avatar emboil says:

    Let’s not talk about why they are radical Islamists. And let’s not talk about why they are White Supremacists either. Hell, 3 years have gone by and people don’t even want to talk about why Trump won.
    Trump is sitting in the White House because he tapped into the vein of discontent and pain so many in this country bear. Some of that discontent is manifested via drugs, others via mass shootings.
    The hate comes from some place. If you think its from 4Chan, 8Chan, or the next incarnation thereof, then I think you need to continue digging until you hit bedrock. It might sound crazy, but giving people an outlet that can be tracked will probably lead to even more random attacks which will be even more difficult to detect.
    The only thing that is going to happen from here on out is the same thing that happened in Yemen; the sophistication level of the attacks is going to increase, and a lot of innocent people are going to die.
    Forcing globalization on an accelerated timetable is the root cause of this. It would have happened regardless with all the advances and cost reductions in technology, communications, and travel, but unfortunately greed can’t wait.

  2. Avatar walrus says:

    So, in my opinion, you believe in criminalizing young white males? The LGBTQQ and feminist tribes will love that. Give the FBI yet another excuse for mass surveillance? I’m waiting for the SJW crazies to start pronouncing “All white males are terrorists!”
    For example, could you please explain the fine difference between a potential Army or Marine uber patriotic recruit who is motivated by a desire to defend his countrymen against foreign hordes and a domestic terrorist?
    To put that another way, the LGTB/feminist/SJW crazies are going to use these incidents to criminalize the entire spectrum of young white male behaviour. At one end, you are an introverted incel loner – therefore a risk and at the other end you are a loud mouthed racist hyper patriot equally suspect.
    To borrow the sentiment from “Interview with a Lemming”, I’m surprised there aren’t more incidents. There probably will be plenty if you keep marginalizing young white males.

  3. Avatar jonst says:

    Fine! Glad to say it and condemn “white supremacy” advocating groups/individuals. You write the manifesto condemning it. I’ll most likely sign it. And were it within my power I would aggressively employ the State’s Law Enforcement powers behind stopping the violence (not speech) that emanates from it. As I would against any armed group or individual who would challenge the State monopoly on violence.
    However, I would respond; when will YOU say the Nation can’t, and won’t, continue to face unlimited immigration? You cannot change demographics, and the body politic, at this pace without understanding there will be a reaction to it.

  4. Avatar JMH says:

    The Dayton shooter was an Antifa supporter. Should people who make oblique common cause references to Antifa be put in an FBI database? I don’t support that.

  5. Avatar anon says:

    8chan is not to blame.The site just hosts,that’s it.Ban chan my man and soon you will be told where to think.
    Freedom my friend is sold
    In ounces and inches of chain
    Just enough to keep you sane

  6. Avatar harry says:

    Roman virtues. St Paul was a citizen. As was the Syrian who was first into a breached wall during ng the seige of jerusalem

  7. Avatar David Solomon says:

    Very Fine Piece. Thank You.

  8. Avatar MY says:

    I think we can all agree that any shooting is a terrible event, but what is the difference if someone hates and kills another because he hates the skin or just hates? And yes, it would be nice if we could sing “kumbaya” up on a mountain top wearing our cammies, but I also remember in boot camp when was going to talk to a boot camp friend, who happened to be black, and I was told by the blacks he was with to “go away, white boy.” Did that bother me? No. It is what it is.
    Yes, it is stupid to dislike someone because of their skin color. Remember “Gunga Din”. However, we cannot simply believe that this is the sole reason for this type of attack. What brings it on? What is the background? What causes this to grow? Besides, the most serious fact that we live in an immoral and godless society, there is a constant drumbeat from all sources that whites are bad, white history is bad, white culture is bad. Politicians say it for votes, corporations say it for money, colleges say it to raise generations of hate, and other ethnic groups say and believe it to rake in the benefits of the government and entrance into the U.S.
    This type of hate justifies the “Antifa” and other ethnic groups attacking whites and whites in the U.S. have become like the Germans of today who have to apologize for their very existence because of something that happened 80 years ago. What is one to expect? That nothing will happen? That there will not be explosions? It is bound to happen. This is no justification for what has happened, but it is not something as simple as closing down websites and holding candles.
    We have a lot of animals out there. Animals dressed up like humans and fueled with narcissistic rage and amoral. It is going to take more than just a few laws to pile on the ones we already have. It is going to take something more profound and internal to change human beings but that type of reflection and change will only come by some apocalyptic event.

  9. Avatar Fred says:

    I join you in condemning these murders. Did you hear about the shootings in Baltimore last night? No? Well, they were seperate shootings and not “mass shootings”. Baltimore had been in the news only days ago. I believe Donald J. Trump said something about the rate of crime. What was it his poliical oposition called him, oh, yeah: White Nationalist.
    https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/video/4138487-two-injured-in-separate-east-baltimore-shootings/
    Did you hear about the shootings in Chicago? No?
    Chicago, 277 shot dead year to date.
    Baltimore, 177 shot dead year to date.
    https://baltimore.cbslocal.com/2019/07/11/baltimore-murder-increase-2019/
    Chicago stats: https://heyjackass.com
    “There is no tribe out there with a monopoly on virtue, creativity, cruelty or stupidity.” I agree, but I sure don’t hear many politicians saying that, especially on the left. I wrote something about shootings in Chicago two years ago, not much has changed, not even the political party running the city.

  10. Walrus, surely you don’t think so little of young white males that you consider them all murdering terrorists just waiting for their opportunity to strike. And you can’t see the difference between a young soldier and a domestic terrorist? I know you’re better than that.

  11. Fred, even most of the mass shootings were of the type you describe. I don’t have a solution for that. I’d like to hear yours if you have one.

  12. Avatar turcopolier says:

    TTG
    Your reply to Walrus borders on ad mominem attack and an attempt at “shaming.” Your opinions are yours, but I caution you against attempting to silence others through verbal bullying.

  13. Jonst, El Paso seems to be able to cope just fine as an American city with a large Hispanic population. That is until some white supremacist terrorist comes in from the outside. I think the current rate of immigration, including asylum seekers and illegals, is well within the capacity of this nation to absorb. Now if we experienced a catastrophic increase of 10 million a year for a few years, we could face serious problems. That could be precipitated by an environmental collapse in Central America (partially occurring now) or a new ice age in Canada (pretty damned unlikely). Either one would cause serious disruption here.

  14. Avatar JP Billen says:

    I’m with TTG on this and had the same experience when I served. Our 1st Amendment would not let us outlaw hate-speech as is done in Canada and most of Europe. However doxing these wannabee murderers is not illegal. They should be hounded and disrupted.
    And perhaps we should beef up civil laws so that individual or group victims of hate speech can seek $$$ redress under civil law like what Japan has done in the past. Sue not just the speaker-of-hate, but also the site host. Don’t shut them down though, as they could be monitored to ID potential shooters to go on a watch list, or to face lawsuits maybe.

  15. Avatar jonst says:

    “In 1960, the total population of Texas was 9.5 million, of which fewer than a million were Hispanic. In 2017, there were 11.1 million Hispanics in Texas—more than the total number of people in Texas in 1960 and nearly 40% of the state’s overall current population.” This is called by some ‘Replacement Theory’ . I am not there. Yet. However, if it keeps going in this direction it will be ‘Replacement’, de facto, on the ground. I am not as optimistic as so called Progressives are that this will AUTOMATICALLY imply the State will go Blue, politically. But the California/NY model dazzles the so called Progressives. The GOP is no long a viable state wide political party in those states. In fact, what political battles there are now in those states are between Hispanic v Afro-Americans. At least in California. These kinds of changes WILL provoke a reaction. THe first signs of this reaction, in its milder forms, was Brexit, Trump, and Merkel’s increasing irrelevance. This resulted with Neo Nazis in the German Parliament for the first time since the War. None of these events seem to lessen the so called Progressives’ plans. They double down and called whoever opposed them, racists. However, I will reiterate, climate change disasters or not, this kind of invasion will not go without a response. While we must continue to welcome the people here in the us, the legal ones, anyway, and not be consumed with hateful rhetoric and actions, immigration is going to have to slow down. Or there will be trouble.

  16. Avatar plantman says:

    Am I the only person who reads this blog who is skeptical of the coverage of the shooting incident?
    No, I am not saying that it was a CIA operation aimed at tarnishing Trump while trying to disarm the American people. But I am saying that every one of these mass shootings have produced conflicting details as more information leaks onto the Internet.
    Did the FBI already have a file on the shooter? Did they know he was unstable and connected to sketchy groups? Was the shooter on depression meds? Is the “white nationalist” moniker credible or part of a political agenda aimed at people who question the governments version of events? Is the shooting going to be used to silence critics of the ‘liberal order’??
    I can’t answer these questions, but after 3 years of nonstop lies about the alleged “Russia-Trump” connection,(none of which was true) I am more skeptical than ever.
    I would go so far as to say, that any headline appearing at the New York Times, Washington Post or CNN, has been shaped to achieve the political objectives of ownership.
    It all has to be taken with a grain of salt.

  17. Avatar turcopolier says:

    JP Billen
    The level of self-congratulatory virtue signalling is incredible. Do you think you and TTG are the only former lieutenants who ever served with diverse human material made into soldiers. I served with tribals who boiled up the enemy’s liver in order to share in their courage. Is that diverse enough for you? Would you have joined in this sacramental moment? Just how diverse do you want to be?

  18. Avatar Lars says:

    No matter what excuses, theories or sentiments you express, nothing will solve this problem until you have to be licensed to own and use a firearm. If you want a single shot 22, or a small bore shotgun, it can be a simple and inexpensive affair. As you move on up to more dangerous weapons, the requirements should increase. Should you get caught with a weapon and have no license for it, it should be very costly.
    This has social, legal and cultural aspects to it, but only the government can do something about it. There is probably a tipping point out there and it may be very close and when it is reached, the gun owners who do not like regulations will not like what will be imposed on them. They only have themselves to blame for not supporting reasonable regulations in the past.

  19. Avatar Terry says:

    This is a great idea. I had training both at home and some at school. It is also closer to the original idea of gun ownership for trained state militias. You could also have additional programs for CRP training, emergency response for licensed citizens, etc.
    Add in this training at the high school level + a heavy dose of civics as well. This would have been possible in 1960’s America but probably not today. More likely this would have to start post high school and paid by the individual.

  20. Avatar Seamus Padraig says:

    Of course there isn’t an al Qaeda-like hierarchical group to target, but there is a white supremacist internet presence just like there is a jihadist internet presence. 8chan is the go to place for these shitheads.

    Gosh, those white millenial gamers are so ‘supreme’ that they’re forced to have their political discussions on the internet.

    The FBI is monitoring it just like it monitors jihadist sites.

    Sure, just like the Fibis monitor everything now. But does living in a police state make youfeel safer? Not me!

    The goal is to treat these extreme white nationalists with the same disgust as we treat jihadists, child predators and rapists.

    “Child predators and rapists,” sadly, are the very people who run our society! It turns that Epstein is nothing new:
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/shocking-origins-jeffrey-epstein-blackmail-roy-cohn/260621/
    https://www.mintpressnews.com/blackmail-jeffrey-epstein-trump-mentor-reagan-era/260760/

  21. Avatar Terry says:

    Well said! Haters of all colors are unAmerican.
    “We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, …”

  22. Avatar Vegetius says:

    >His rhetoric has encouraged and heartened white nationalists for three years
    You have no idea what you are talking about.
    The Neocons had better SA with regard to Iraq than you do about the situation in your own country. And so most of your proposals sound like something from the desk of Paul Bremer.
    How many of these white thought criminals do you think there are?
    White nationalists began breaking with Trump after the Shayrat missile strike in early 2017. His ultra-Zionist stance and refusal to support the free speech rights of his supporters (such as the multi-ethnic Proud Boys group), coupled with his apparent willingness to tolerate increasing internet censorship (which you appear to endorse) furthered this alienation. By the time of this year’s State of the Union, when he called for an increase in legal immigration, the break was nearly complete.
    At this point, white nationalist sentiment regarding Trump is typically expressed in the bitter language of betrayal and outright mockery, some of which is actually hysterical.
    This isn’t classified information, it’s all over the internet. Haven’t heard a peep about this from wherever you get your news? Maybe you ought to check your assumptions.
    See, you’ve got this backwards: the violence is not the result of Trump’s rhetoric, but his failure to act on his rhetoric, specifically his failure to secure the border and deport the 30+ million latinos who have illegally entered the US.
    Confusing “white supremacy” with “white nationalism” and conflating both with the inevitable rise of self-interested white identity politics in an increasingly multi-racial is, at best, simple ignorance and at worst a deliberate attempt to smear by association.
    This is the worst sort of reactive boomer posting. Next time put it all in capital letters as a warning.

  23. Trump is sitting in the White House because he tapped into the vein of discontent and pain so many in this country bear. Some of that discontent is manifested via drugs, others via mass shootings.
    You nailed it. Your whole post, in general.

  24. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    TTG,
    With open borders – which the Left/democrats are calling for, we will pass 10 million immigrants in short order. Then it will be 20 million and then…? Why wouldn’t it be?
    You are missing a critical piece of the mosaic here – a piece that that was included in the shooter’s manifesto.
    That is that it isn’t just a huge demographic shift that’s being called for, it’s the left promising the new arrivals, illegal and legal, lots of free stuff that will be paid for by those already here. It’s promising them free stuff that current citizens aren’t getting.
    The shooter recognizes much that you ignore. That in addition to all of the free stuff his generation will have to pay for, the increased labor pool will drive down wages for Americans who have already been hit hard by offshoring. The shooter says that people like him in his generation are facing a bleak future – maybe no future. I can see how he arrives at that notion.
    The leftist mainstream news outlets (basically all of them other than Fox and Wall Street Journal) are championing the new arrivals as *better than the existing population*. Open racism against whites is SOP for the democrat party. They openly applaud the replacement of whites.
    There’s plenty of racism going around on all sides.
    I think the shooter is a bad guy. I think his methods are wrong. In a civil society we must rely on established methods under the rule of law to accomplish political ends.
    However, having read his manifesto, I understand where he is coming from and, to be honest, agree with much of what he wrote.
    The liberals have openly declared war on whites and American culture. They openly state their intention to replace us. They plan to use our money to do it.
    Liberals should expect that when you daily scream your war cry, that the weakest links on your target’s side are going to break and there’s going to be violence. Actually, I think that is the left’s passive aggressive intention. Existentially threaten whites until a few crack and “prove their case” that whites are evil racists that need to go. And that Trump is evil and needs to go.
    I place ultimately blame for the El Paso shooting on the guy who pulled the trigger, but he was goaded into it. The left/Democrats are attacking our way of life to an existential level. IMO, if they keep it up, the El Paso shooting is going to look like a good day compared to what’s coming.

  25. Antifa not only should but MUST be put under serious considerations by Law Enforcement agencies in the US. In my book they are the domestic terrorist organization in the process of maturing. It will end really bad if not addressed promptly and properly. Sadly, beating the shit out of these Antifa people puts one immediately under huge disadvantage in a front of the law.

  26. Avatar TedBuila says:

    Fair enough..and the end isn’t in sight.

  27. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    plantman,
    How hard would it be for leftist operators to surf around the internet and identify unstable individuals and then prod them into taking action?
    I can see them doing that. Like the plot by the FBI and IC to undo the election of Trump, the end justifies the means for the globohomo ideologues

  28. Avatar ted richard says:

    we may think these mass killings as novel to our debased times i assure you they are not. american history is littered with episodes identical to what we see right now with the sole exception being choice of weapons.
    turn the economy down HARD for an extended perds of time and the craziness emerges as if by magic.
    in the 1840’s it was the irish who bore the brunt of nyc old white hatred, the chinese who were brought to california to build the railroads and treated like vermin by the native whites, american indians have been treated like shit by everyone for a hundred years.
    apart from individual bigotry which exists in all of us to a lesser or greater degree economics is where we all live and what we all share.
    make it harder for folks to make a living, get by raise a family and pass on a little something for your kids so they can make a life…deny this and you get a social explosion.
    thwarting is the among the most destructive of human emotions/impulses and woe be to the social structure of any nation that allows a significant percent of its citizenry to feel they have been screwed by government policies.
    if you think its bad now just wait a few years! if you think trump is bad now you won’t believe how crazy things become after he leaves office in 2025.

  29. If we repeated our response to “Islamic terrorism”, we’d need to invade Canada.. I’m not sure repeating misadventures in the ME would help the situation here. Nor will giving up any of our Constitutional Rights. The 35 people who died at Kyoto Animation weren’t helped by Japan’s tight gun laws. The politicization of all things and all issues is what is destroying the country. People with good jobs and good lives, people with close family and friends and stable environments don’t go on mass murdering spree’s. It’s become much harder for families to stay in the same area and stay close, and people of all types feel their identities threatened. Bringing in cheap labor has been capitols go to tool since at least the 1800’s. It’s always resulted in strife. Arbitrage is designed to divide. On the scale of a single company it might not be so bad, but we’ve been applying it countrywide for at least 40 years and we’ve been at war for about as long.
    All stuff you mention are just symptoms. Hate might be unhelpful, or might be justified. It can’t be controlled. You can’t make someone not hate unless you kill them and then you get it back 10 fold. If we are going to radically change our demographics we need to make sure there is prosperity to be shared and not just misery. It was stupid to change our immigration laws just to make wall street happy. If we don’t admit that, and turn back their excesses we’re going to find out that these “masters of the universe” types don’t care for country or kin. They haven’t just done damage to the middle class, they’ve done severe damage to the country. The Founders thought being a Citizen meant something. Today’s government see people as voters at best and consumers in general.

  30. Serving in a controlled environment with other races doesn’t make you an expert on race relations. I grew up participating in sports with blacks. I am going to use the term blacks and not African-Americans since the radical left uses the term White and no American word attached to it which represents their true intent.
    I also have smoked crack with a good black friend of mine on the High School Track team. He was a good sprinter and I a good long distance white runner. I have slept with black women.
    My community has a large Brown population due to Carpet Manufacturing. A large migration came in the 90s due to a surge in Carpet sales. Many left after the crash of 2008 but still a large brown population.
    I have been the victim of several petty crimes. Some by black people some by white trash.
    I have been in jail with predominantly black and white people at the time.
    And guess what none of this matters. It comes down to economics. The 1940s – 1960s saw a lot lower crime rate among blacks than today.
    Why? BECAUSE THERE WERE DECENT JOBS FOR THE MASSES. This is not brain surgery. The economic figures of today are bunk.
    Societies are tribal when it comes to economics. So today’s majority tomorrow’s minority will be begging for a job in the future. This is what it comes down to.
    None of this will matter when the UFO/Alien Malevolent invasion begins.

  31. Avatar German_reader says:

    “This resulted with Neo Nazis in the German Parliament for the first time since the War.”
    AfD aren’t “Neo Nazis”. They may be called nationalists, and it’s true that there have been problematic individuals in the party who have spouted antisemitic theories and similar stuff (usually AfD tries to get rid of them). But “Neo Nazis”…that’s sheer propaganda.
    And given everything that has happened in Germany since 2015 AfD is a pretty mild reaction.
    People here always go on about “Antifa”. Well, if American Antifa follows the lead of their German counterparts, you’d better be prepared for much uglier stuff than what you have seen so far. If you’re an anti-immigration right-winger in Germany (and no, that doesn’t mean “Neo Nazis”), you can expect to have your car torched, your house vandalized or burglarized, or even having your nose broken or some other physical assault. The establishment by and large has no problem with this, the victims “deserve” it after all. This also creates a dynamic where respectable people are afraid to come out against mass immigration, so only somewhat dubious radicals are left to take up this task.

  32. Avatar Keith Harbaugh says:

    “There is no tribe out there with a monopoly on virtue, creativity, cruelty or stupidity.”
    IMO, the tribes differ greatly in their ability to create a civilization that is worth living in.
    So too think many Muslims, blacks, and Hispanics, as evidenced by migration flows.
    Why is it that when they, as the immigration-lovers mantra asserts, are fleeing “poverty, violence, corruption, and oppression”,
    they cannot flee to a nation ruled by their own kind, specifically, Muslims, blacks, or Hispanics?
    Look at their ability, or not, to come together to solve problems.
    An Ebola epidemic in the Congo?
    Can blacks put aside their rivalries and animosities long enough to at least allow health care workers to attempt to put an end to the epidemic?
    No.
    Just whom, or what, TTG, do you blame for that? The “white supremacy” that you hate so much?
    Or let’s switch to the attempt to eradicate polio from the world.
    Where is polio still wreaking its havoc?
    According to Wikipedia, only in Afghanistan, Pakistan and Nigeria.
    I.e., black or Muslim-ruled and controlled nations.
    Now, the left can try to shift blame for that onto whites,
    but I, for one, don’t buy that argument.
    In the MSM we read about problem after problem in Africa.
    I, for one, place responsibility for those problems on the people of Africa.
    Does that make me a “white supremacist”? Or a “fascist” or “Nazi”?
    I am sure that it does for some, which shows how those terms have been broadened.
    And, of course, just about everyone who reads SST is very well aware of the history of violence and problems in the Muslim world.
    In the 1960s the rallying cry of many on the left was “Black Power”.
    Also, the need, as they demanded, to end imperialism in the Third World.
    Well, imperialism ended in Africa as a result of those demands,
    and blacks got the power they demanded.
    And what did they then do with that power?
    Create a society that their own people want or need to flee from?
    Whites have committed crimes in the past, both individually and as a group (referring to the murdering of Jews in particular).
    Who stopped Hitler and the Nazis?
    Was it blacks, Muslims, Hispanics?
    Not to much of an extent.
    The war against Hitler was fought, and won, almost entirely by the “racist, sexist, homophobic, and anti-Semitic” nations, cultures, and people of the white-ruled world of the early 1940s.
    So let’s not throw out the baby with the bathwater.

  33. Yet, in good ol’ Soviet Union–the bastion of proletarian “internationalism” and equality of nations and races, somehow profiling by religious, ethnic and cultural backgrounds was not only not-haram (halal that is), but it was a normal practice (correct one, I would say) to separate largely Shiite background Azerbaijanis with Sunni background Middle Asians when in service. Orientations by Counterintelligence Departments on some key issues of behavior of “diverse” people were a norm. Even “communists” recognized (despite sloganeering for the consumption of masses) that people are different, cultures are different and they MUST be regulated. Strangely (not really, actually) when Caucasus exploded, especially with the events in Karabakh, none other than Chief of Counter Intelligence of our Brigade, Captain Second Rank Kuliev (communist, chekist–the whole “package”) was the one who was “leaking” crucial info, including on weapons and plan of actions to his Azerbaijani compatriots who by that time were running amok (people died). Same happened with some Armenian officers who did the trick for their own. Blood is thicker than vine, always was, always will be, no matter the pathos of well-wishing proclamations. There are only two ways of dealing with that: a social (ethno-religious-racial)contract which is strictly enforced or–the fate of USSR which disintegrated primarily due to “multiculturalism”. Multicultural societies do not live long or happily.

  34. Avatar NancyK says:

    You obviously know more than the FBI and Dayton PD as they have not connected him to Antifa. Reading his bio and his hatred of women, he sound more Proud Boy than Antifa.

  35. And guess what none of this matters.
    So, ethnic and religious crime, types of criminality, MOs do not matter? Is that what you are trying to say? FBI statistics, however, speaks differently if we are talking about good ol’ USA. Ethnic crime for some reason still thrives even in the allegedly economically prosperous nations. I, of course, do not want to elaborate on Sweded’s suicide, but somehow people do notice that racial, religious and ethnic gangs and zones do exist.

  36. Avatar BrotherJoe says:

    “None of this will matter when the UFO/Alien Malevolent invasion begins.”
    I for one eagerly await the rule of our UFO/Alien masters. I plan to redeem my S&H Green Stamps and open a bed-and-breakfast for the Zargonites.
    Only kidding. The Lord Jesus is the only one who can solve this mess.

  37. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Terry,
    Sure. And isn’t the pen mightier than the sword? I think we should also have licensing to exercise our first amendment rights. If these white supremists can’t communicate their ideas, then maybe the movement will die out. Ideas should be monitored and only the right ones should be allowed to be communicated.
    The 4th amendment is going to be a problem when it’s time to take all the scary kinds of guns and in monitoring bad speak. So we should eliminate it as well. Maybe comrades…er I mean citizens… who have past a test and have proven that they are firmly entrenched in good think could be licensed to have some kind of protection against searches, seizures and warrantless searches. Then again, you never know what people are thinking. So probably we should just do away with the 4A.

  38. Avatar TonyL says:

    Colonel Lang,
    I did not see any verbal bullying from TTG to Walrus. Only an irritated but respectful friend trying to make point to another.

  39. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    I should add that characterizing the manifesto as racist is buying into leftist propaganda. If you actually read what the shooter wrote, there really isn’t any racism in it. It seems that he would have held the same beliefs about the situation in the country if those arriving here en masse were white.
    It’s a clever trick to conflate being against a foreign invasion with racism just because the invaders happen to have darker skin.

  40. TonyL, I didn’t think I was bullying. Nor was I irritated, but I was a little snotty to a friend who did nothing to earn that snottiness. This is a highly charged emotional subject so I fully expected the comments to reflect that. I guess that includes mine.

  41. Avatar ted richard says:

    andrei historically EVERY multiculutral society is held together by force emanating from the center.
    as the center fails, like the ussr did towards the end and ours is failing right now (our center is washington ) centrifugal force flings all the unassimilated sub cultures within a multicultural society apart back to their ethnic/religious/racial roots.
    we are headed in the exactly the same direction as the old ussr, splintering into collection of states with enough similarities to work together, perhaps 4-6 regions from what was the usa. the only question in my mind is do we achieve this divorce peacefully or after a bloodbath.
    the american empire as we have long known it is DOA, walking on borrowed time and will hold together only as long as the dollar can be emitted into the world at large for things of actual value above and beyond our export basis. as for the dollar as the parking lot for excess world capital (the REAL reason why the pentagon is able to spend 1 trillion a year) considering our actual economic capabilities, once that ends for the dollar the pentagon budget plummets toward earth at light speed.

  42. Avatar annamissed says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fD2briZ6fB0
    Walrus, you are obviously informed on the “incel” front. For readers here not informed on this very important psyo/sexual backstory to many of these 4chan shooters, try the above link. Produced by a popular transgender woman it’s entertaining and very informative on the above “incel” language with regards to motivations.

  43. No, the guess what was referring to the ridiculous virtue signaling in some of these posts.
    Many of the posters here wouldn’t last a week in some parts of this country. The FBI statistic you are referring to is 51% of the total murders in the United States are by blacks. And they represent 13% of the population.
    However, black crime was much lower from the 1940s – 1960s. I believe it was as simple as more decent jobs available.
    All these virtue signalers behind their economic moats are nauseating.

  44. The Alien Hive Mindset will work synonymously with the PC culture trying to be forced down Mankind’s throat.
    “The Lord Jesus is the only one who can solve this mess.”
    Yes

  45. Avatar Fred says:

    jonst,
    Perhaps the term ‘electoral cleansing’ should be used. 11 million people means what, given the 2010 census (nationally) put it at 710,000+ per distrcit, 15 seats in congress? The proper way to do the math on congressional districts would be to figure out which districts have how many residents, how many are US citizens, and what the race of ech is; then you’ll know the of immigration and the “disparte impact” on congressional representation of citizens by illegal immigration. That is the last thing the left wants discussed; especially given, as you point out, “what political battles there are now in those states are between Hispanic v Afro-Americans”. The progressive left views voters as people who voting by race first; being American is immaterial. The only thing standing in the left’s way are Americans who voted for Trump.

  46. Avatar akaPatience says:

    I don’t deny that there are White Supremacists or that some have been involved in acts of violence, but I don’t believe their numbers are nearly as extensive as accusations suggest. However, I do believe leftists are in denial about the role THEIR rhetoric and stances may play in inciting violence. Are not the accusations of White Privilege, Toxic Masculinity, and Cisgender Privilege divisive and provocative? Are not policies advocating slavery reparations, sanctuary cities, open borders, free healthcare/education and other social benefits for those who enter our country illegally, and transgenders in sports divisive and provocative? White males in particular are routinely denigrated. What’s more, we’re exposed to all of this on a nearly-daily basis, and from several fronts.
    Having said all of this, I wouldn’t be bothered if there were more controls imposed on certain weapons, to see if that reduces the problem of mass shootings. I can’t abide by gun advocates who are intractable about this issue. It seems to me it’s worth a try. However, in the end I believe the problem is generally more of a cultural and mental health issue and gun control may not solve it.
    For the past few decades it’s become common for little boys to be diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed stimulants. I wonder if the consequences of this practice needs more scrutiny? Just a thought.

  47. Avatar annamissed says:

    Should probably add that the conclusions of the the above link is that political motivations are essentially secondary to a more primary motivation of cognitive dissonance grounded in personal self worth. This would apply to left and right secondary motivations. As the Tacoma ICE bomber would illustrate, considering his personal life situation was a complete shambles, with little besides his political to counteract his deteriorating personal circumstance. The same can be said of anti immigrant, misogynist, (etc) justifications from the right using a political identity to cover and justify an underlying primary motivation.

  48. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    NancyK,
    Well, the FBI hasn’t released proof that the El Paso shooter wrote that manifesto.
    The Dayton shooter’s social media is readily available. He supported Liz Warren and Kamala Harris. He demanded socialism. He hated Trump. Oddly he wanted gun control. Probably martyred himself for that cause.
    For some stupid reason, he shot and killed his sister while on his rampage. She was probably a Trump supporter.

  49. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    I only pointed out how many they were, but let me describe them: young black males shooting people, most of them also black. In Chicago the majority of those shootings are unsolved. The Cook County attorney had other things on her mind than solving those crimes.
    The solution to that? A full explanaton would need a post of its own, however, in summary: Create an aspirational society rather than gut it like the left has been doing since the ’60s. In the 2008 election Obama created “Hope” and “Change we can believe in” along with a slew of other slogans, but he did not follow through with any actual results that provide aspiration to families or individuals.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-fix/post/president-obama-a-man-of-many-slogans/2012/07/10/gJQAf8UlaW_blog.html
    Trump’s slogan “Make America Great Again” followed in the same path campaign wise, and as boorish as he is personally, Trump has been doing that, at least economically. Tariff reform, regulatory reform (probably the most significant factor) and legal reform. The second factor is to de-centralize government. For example the Parkland shooter was identified as troubled more than a dozen times prior to his showing up at Parkland with firearms. Broward County School Superintendent Runcie had followed the lead of the Obama left to avoid the “school to prison pipeline” and treat criminal conduct with non-judicial methods. That is directly tacable to Obama and his ideological base.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/us/fbi-tip-nikolas-cruz.html
    https://thefederalist.com/2018/03/20/scandal-behind-florida-school-shooting-federal-coercion-not-guns/
    The Christchurch example? That man was an Australian and according to the Prime Minister of New Zealand it was the fault, collectively, of her (New Zealander) civilization, not the shooter himself. If you are caught with the shooter’s manifesto in that country it is a felony and if you want to know what the shooter wanted to do just ask the government and they’ll tell you. Hardly the kind of government I want to live under.

  50. Avatar Fred says:

    JP,
    I find your statement to be hateful of America’s established traditions of liberty and the ability to speak freely. Please calculate the proper amount of $$$ to redress this hate speach violation of yours and hit the ‘donate’ tab in lue of sending it to me personally.
    “Sue not just the speaker-of-hate, but also the site host.”
    So by hosting 8Chann Cloudfare is admitting responsibility for the speach of those it hosts? The same must be true for FB, Twitter, etc. The lawyers will be raking in some dough. Or the left will just label all their opponents ‘white nationalists’, their posts ‘hate speach’ and ban them, thus Hilary will win 1,000,000 to zero Trump will get creamed this election cycle.
    I wonder what the Russian bots will be programed do now?

  51. as the center fails, like the ussr did towards the end and ours is failing right now (our center is washington )
    Undeniably. But center(s) fail precisely for the reason of the necessity to “regulate” diversity which, in the end, arrests crucial (for survival) resources and corrupts center itself. Yes, and the existence becomes unsustainable.

  52. Avatar JamesT says:

    TTG,
    I was told that Russia was a dictatorship and that Putin was a dictator – then I went to Russia and talked to Russians and found out that this was a gross oversimplification. I was told that Assad was a brutal dictator and then I went to Syria (2 years before the civil war) and talked to the Syrians and found out that the situation there was much more complicated than I head been lead to believe.
    Now you are telling me that 8chan is a haven for virulent white supremacy. I have no doubt that there is (was) some virulent white supremacy on 8chan, but I wonder if all of 8chan was hate speech. The problem is that it has now been shut down so I can’t see for myself. I am not so inclined to just take people’s word for these things anymore.
    I remember a time when those who held the political attitudes which I believe you and I share were very much in favour of free speach. I fear that the threat of racism and white supremacy is being used to degrade our support for freedom of speech. Obviously people planning or encouraging violence should be arrested – but as for those who express ideas (even racist ones), I believe the best way to deal with them is to answer them with better ideas. Trying to gag or silence those we disagree with runs the risk of (a) ensuring there is nobody to speak up for us when the authorities decide to gag and silence us, and (b) make those we disagree with feel even more persecuted and inclined to resort to extreme measures.

  53. Avatar Fred says:

    Lars,
    The victims were all in gun free zones.
    To expand on your idea: Mandatory firearms training for all public school teachers followed by similar training for all students. Follow with student discounts for firearms, ammunition and range practice. Kind of like they get with electronic gadgets. Open carry for all since they’ll get a firearms cert with their drivers license at age 16. Maybe a learner’s stamp at 15 so they can practice carrying unloaded on the way to the range. Applicable to US citizens. Foreign nationals will need a Department of State approval showing need and nation of origin approval.

  54. Avatar JamesT says:

    JP Billen,
    I am Canadian and I would trade our hate speech laws for your 1st Amendment any day of the week. The problem is that hate speech cannot be objectively defined and thus cannot be enforced in an unprejudiced way. In France, Charlie Hebdo gets to draw cartoons which portray the Prophet Mohammed as a pedophile yet it is illegal to wear a “boycott Israel” t-shirt. People in Canada say things like “we need to kill all of the Muslims” all the time and yet nobody is ever prosecuted for saying such things. Hate speech laws do not empower the powerless, they empower the powerful.

  55. Avatar Fred says:

    plantman,
    I agree with you on being skeptical of the coverage. The right is out saying this guy was a Warren supporter who hated Trump (see below). I think it will be a few days at the least. You are correct about the Russia connection, that sure destroyed press credibility.
    https://legalinsurrection.com/2019/08/reports-dayton-shooter-supported-elizabeth-warren-hated-trump-and-ice/#more-291395

  56. Avatar Lars says:

    Free speech is a nice idea, but when it comes with a cost, even a deadly one, is it still “free”? Modern communication platforms are much different than when it was just the written word on paper, or somebody on a “soap box”.
    Like many rights, none of them are unfettered. One problem is who will decide what is reasonable and what is not. We also have a political class that either ignores the problem or tries to benefit from it.

  57. However, black crime was much lower from the 1940s – 1960s. I believe it was as simple as more decent jobs available.
    Because the community was up and coming and they had purpose to live for–grow into the middle class, get education, good job etc. Their music was outstanding then, as an example. Then, of course, came grievance (and guilt for others)industry which mutated into self-congratulatory extolling of every cultural degeneracy and crime as both viable culture and, in the same time, heritage of oppression and here we are today. Ghetto culture won, not least through the aid by limousine liberals.

  58. Avatar JP Billen says:

    I respect your service and those you served with.
    But no, I would not have joined in. I don’t even eat beef liver. SWMBO always told me I was chicken for abstaining.

  59. Avatar ted richard says:

    harlan if you want to infer real social genocide look at population usa census records taken in 1930 and then look at the 1940 census records.
    you will shocked at what happened to millions of people here in the usa between 1930 and 1940. statistical anomalies that can only be explained by one of three things.
    aliens carried away a huge number of people especially younger ones
    a huge number of people simply emigrated elsewhere with no money and no resources to speask of
    or a whole lot of people just died way beyond statistical norms…..and those deaths were not really recorded locally as you would find a stable coherent society. people just disappeared into paupers graves.
    this is what happens when economies turn down hard.
    i am sure andrei has friends in the old ussr that can speak to this same point in the years 1990-200x.

  60. Avatar Horace says:

    “…self-congratulatory virtue signalling…”
    That is exactly what it is. They are too busy preening to notice the larger picture: the ongoing delegitimization of the social, political, and economic order that underlies the imperial system from which they derive their material and social status.
    President Trump did not cause it. The source is the true-face-revealing reaction by our elites to Pres. Trump’s very modest efforts to reform our morally, spiritually, and financially bankrupt empire. Pres. Trump is trying hard to reinvigorate an American civic nationalism inclusive to assimilating immigrants in which there is a place for European-heritage people other than as the Emmanuel Goldstein object of 2-minute hate. If there is no place for white in the diversity rainbow, then this Mengele-like Marxist/globalist experiment of multiculturalism is not going to have a happy ending for anyone.
    American civic nationalism is failing because non-European immigrants overwhelmingly are not buying into it. Why would they? Civic nationalism is fake nationalism. These people ALREADY HAVE tribal and national identities and we are all lectured with tedious regularity that it is racist to ask them to change. They are no longer coming here to join us. Maybe civic nationalism would work if assimilation were demanded, but instead non-assimilation is celebrated. No one has ever been kicked out of a Trump rally for not being white. If only European or white Americans buy into our civic nationalism, then it becomes by default a ‘white’ nationalism.
    The globalists are a pack of cooperating predators. They desire multicultural societies because it is easier to hunt a hundred different non-cooperating prey animals each in a herd of one, than it is to hunt a hundred prey animals all of the same type and cooperating in collective self-defense.
    The globalists WANT immigrants who will be the least likely to assimilate into heritage-American cultural norms. Yet, we heritage-Americans are the bad guys for noticing that this stunning transformation of our society (that occurred without our consent) is not only not working but is destroying us. We are the bad guys for noticing the monstrous arrogance of immigrants like Ilhan Omar who come into our civilization, openly hate on us and our culture, then demand that we pretend that they are part of us. We are the bad guys for rejecting pedophilia-normalizing drag queen library story hour. Drain the swamp, or burn it to the reeking ashes.

  61. When you start down the road regulating what is permissible speech then the next step is a Totalitarian Society.
    As individuals in Germany should be aware of. Present and historically.

  62. Avatar Serge says:

    There is an interesting common thread of inceldom in not just all of these White Nationalist attacks,but school shootings as well. Incels often congregate on 8chan/4chan where they are exposed to WN ideology. Even if they state WN in a manifesto, I don’t think these incel terrorist attacks are triggered by that ideology. It is triggered by the rage of their inceldom. One could say that the modern pioneer of all of this was the Eurasian Supremacist Elliot Roger in 2014, manifesto and all. Or even back farther to Marc Lépine at Polytechnique in ’89. Both coincidentally biracial incels. One could draw a line between this phenomenon to sexual frustration among young men in Islamic countries/communities, but this is a bit facile I think. Most ISIS/jihadi suicide terrorists in the West,or foreign fighters, are not incels at all.

  63. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Fred,
    Great idea.
    IMO, CNN, MSNBC, et al spew hate speech 24/7.
    Yank their broadcasting licenses and fine them.
    I further think that Bernie Sanders, Harris, Warren, O’Rourke et al spew hate speech. Jail time?

  64. Avatar Flavius says:

    There are useful distinctions to be drawn amongst all the many terrorisms, terrorists in the service of terrorism, incidents perpetrated by terrorists in service of terrorism, state sponsored terrorism, revolutionary terrorism, highly organized enterprise terrorism, ad hoc opportunity terrorism, nut job terrorism, and who knows the many more ways fear can be inflicted on a targeted populace for whatever reason. The human imagination for summoning up grievance and means of satisfaction is about infinite. So I’m not not even going to attempt to sift through that mess but I would like to note that, bad news being good news, the news entertainment business loves terror even more than big government loves terror; and that the anti-terror bureaucratic brain trust that surrounded George W. Bush did the country no good by foisting the War on Terror nomenclature on it guaranteeing that the War would go on in perpetuity.
    I also would like to say that I’ve been around long enough, and seen enough, that I myself am entirely unterrorized by the instances of white supremacist terror, whatever that actually is, summarized in the body of this article; and I also believe that the resources of law enforcement as they existed before the inaptly named War on Terror was declared would have been more than adequate to address the challenges. We have seen as bad; we will probably see worse; and I see no need to juice up our already over-militarized approach to domestic law enforcement than it already is.
    Finally the politically self serving tactic of blaming the oafish Trump for individual acts of violence that he had absolutely nothing to do with is worse than absurd because it is both dangerous and precedent setting. Haven’t we learned anything from the damage caused to the political and social fabric by the government using its powers of enforcement, misusing I should say, to launch an overreaching multi year scorched earth mission to Get Trump based on nothing but politically motivated smears.

  65. Interesting never knew. Suspected. You re blaming the Great Depression, correct? I agree.

  66. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Horace,
    Beautiful. Spot on.
    I’ve been saying for some time that the goal of the liberals is, literally, to destroy our country. It’s not accidental unforeseen consequences of stupid policies. It is well planned and targeted.

  67. Per capita it is much more than Mexican immigrants though (like 2 or 3 x in places). Ron Unz has a series on crime with racial statistics with pretty clear trends. That would suggest that economics is not the only factor. I think you have a good point about economic well being but that doesn’t mean it rules out other factors. Growing up in the country I found that family ties and values (another factor you can’t control) were more important than anything except money. Though when you through money into the mix your really talking about different kinds of crime. It might not be virtue signaling after all stereotypes are stereotype because they work, except when they don’t.

  68. Avatar Fred says:

    Eric,
    “broadcasting licenses ” back in the eighties there was alot of talk about the ‘fairness doctrine’ and equal air time for opposing political views. The left got rid of that as soon as their control on media looked secure.

  69. Avatar JP Billen says:

    Fred: I support the 1st Amendment with no reservations on my part. All of the amendments, but especially that one and the 2nd and the other nine that were ratified in the 1790s. But watch out that Kamala Harris doesn’t get in the oval office. She has stated publicly she will bust down doors and search for hidden weapons once she declares them illegal by executive order. The courts or congress will NOT allow her to override the 2nd and 4th. But it goes to show that the woman is a tyrant-in-waiting and will say anything to try to get a boost in the polls.
    Like you, I understand that much of hate-speech does not run afoul of the 1st Amendment. Unless of course it is likely to incite or produce what the courts call “imminent lawless action”. Some wiggle room there for a slick talking lawyer, but not much. Nobody I know wants to change that.
    But I’m not understanding your beef with a civil jury? Plaintiffs have to provide a burden of proof. And don’t forget that it works both ways, hatemongers on both ends of the political spectrum can face lawsuits. Sure it will perhaps make the lawyers even richer. Expect most of those legal fees to be paid by large organizations, both left and right wing, and not funded by taxpayers.

  70. Avatar Terry says:

    Guns have been so demonized that most kids today are afraid of the sight of them. For me growing up they were just fixtures around the house and no restriction on picking one up and going out to target practice or hunting age 12.
    I think licensing and training would generate far more familiarity, acceptance, and far more competence than the current status quo. If it is made clear to the average citizen that anyone with a gun is well trained it might take some of the fear out of it.
    Licensing to drive hasn’t become an impediment to car ownership. Licensing to shoot wouldn’t become an impediment to gun ownership
    As to the 4th, I would certainly be all for more classes on critical thinking, rules of debate, good manners, and anything to reduce the crude, rude, emotional blather so common in social media. It is the higher quality of communication that keeps me a fan of this site.
    Mostly I think your reply fits “Slippery Slope” and “Straw Man”.
    https://informationisbeautiful.net/visualizations/rhetological-fallacies/

  71. Avatar Donald says:

    He shot a lot of black people, statistically unlikely to be Trump supporters.
    I am not a psychologist, but in layman’s terms he was a murderous fruitcake ad I doubt ideology played much of a role. He could have been a hobbit nationalist for all the difference it made.

  72. Avatar Terry says:

    ? because ~10 million growth instead of the ~20 million in the decades before and after? White percentage actually went from 88.7% to 89.8%, blacks 9.7% to 9.8% 1930-1940. 1940 was the peak of white percentage of the population.
    Sources?
    1790: 3,929,214
    1800: 5,308,483
    1810: 7,239,881
    1820: 9,638,453
    1830: 12,866,020
    1840: 17,069,453
    1850: 23,191,876
    1860: 31,443,321
    1870: 38,558,371
    1880: 50,189,209
    1890: 62,979,766
    1900: 76,212,168
    1910: 92,228,496
    1920: 106,021,537
    1930: 123,202,624
    1940: 132,164,569
    1950: 151,325,798
    1960: 179,323,175
    1970: 203,302,031
    1980: 226,542,199
    1990: 248,709,873
    2000: 281,421,906
    2010: 307,745,538
    2017: 323,148,586

  73. Avatar walrus says:

    TTG, Thank you for your reply. My experience of minorities, thank heaven, was also founded in the Army and it taught me that everyone is generally of value and to be taken as genuine human beings until proven otherwise. I share some of your experience in that true brotherhood is the ability to swear at people without regard to race color or creed.
    Regarding regarding young white males as murdering terrorists, I’m going back to genetics. As hormones kick in, young males of almost all species are programmed to fight for dominance and the right to breed by destroying competitors. In humans this urge needs to be channeled into sport or something useful. If it isn’t it comes out in perverted forms such as gangs, crimes, both ordinary and sexual or other forms of deviance like mass murder. I speculate that the Jesuits know full well about this phenomenon.
    I meant what I said about young males classified as potential terrorists. In the Army, perhaps your shrinks are better than ours, but I had a few bad apple recruits who announced they were in the Army to kill gooks. They had to be weeded out, generally because they didn’t understand the discipline thing. One I remember had to be coaxed down from the roof of a hut one night where he was sitting stark naked with his rifle.
    Two nutcases I remember had this “fight and die for country” complex; Tim McVeigh, the Oklahoma bomber, who got his wish in the electric chair, the other is Julian Knight in jail here for life after a mass shooting – he also had a failed military background. I have no doubt that the Texas shooter also thought he was protecting what he believed to be “his” country, and his manifesto specifically states that he was ready to die for it.
    The trendy left are going to have a field day over this subject – “toxic masculinity” is just the start of it.
    Young men need to have their natural enthusiasm channeled into something useful, if they are out of work, ignored, derided, reviled, laughed at, they will make their presence felt by killing.

  74. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    Lars
    No right is entirely unfettered, but in 1A “free” has this meaning, rather than cost-free. Nothing of value is without cost, least of all freedom. The cost of unfree speech would IMO be immeasurably higher.

  75. Avatar turcopolier says:

    TTG
    I would not have allowed my platood sergeant, a man with threes SS from Korea to talk to anyone like that in my presence. Who did he say that to? You? Your superiors? Men in the platoon? Who?

  76. Avatar turcopolier says:

    JP Billen
    I din’t say i joined in. I usually told them that my religion forbade it and evident;y they thought i was brave enough. BTW I usually tell people who thank me for my service that i did not do it for them.

  77. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    Lars
    Your phrase “..only the government can do something about it” is beautiful.

  78. He said that to one of squad leaders during an argument. I was within earshot. SSG Livingstone knew I heard him, approached me after the squad leader left and apologized profusely for having done that in front of me. It was less than a week after I arrived in the platoon.

  79. Avatar SRW says:

    I agree. There will always be kooks and racist who want to vent their spleen and, heaven help me, murder those “others”. The difference between our country and other countries is the easy availability of military style semi-automatic weapons. Read that the shooter in Dayton killed nine innocents within 30 seconds. Just what a military style semi-automatic weapon was made for. I own over a dozen guns;five are WW II military weapons (no semi-automatic, high capacity weapon). No way would the Dayton shooter be able to kill that number of people lumbering around a 4 ft. long, 12 lb., WW II bolt action rifle. It’s hard to identify and police the kooks but easier to make it illegal to own a semi-automatic, high capacity military type of weapon.

  80. Avatar J says:

    Every time that some bone-head idiot decides to go off the rails, we seem to have the same politicians wanting to punish the whole of the U.S. for it.

  81. Twisted, I really feel sorry for you. I don’t know if this is a late mid-life crisis, but I have never read at SST such nonsensical, irrational piece. I realize some in the media are desperately pushing the meme that Trump is a racist (also an anti-semite). Yet his is surrounded by black pastors who have regular access to him. Not how a racist behaves. Hell, he was even friend with Al Sharpton (when fast Al needed Trump cash). I guess Trump’s willingness to associate with the likes to the despicable Sharpton might qualify as evidence of racism by association.
    Face it, Democrats like yourself are panicked that Trump is delivering on the promise to improve the lives of black and other minority communities. Keep calling him a racist while he helps make the lives of black Americans better.

  82. Avatar ted richard says:

    yes terry exactly. lower birth rates would not account for such a precipitous drop in population growth considering it was expected to have my children by all races during this period with the possible exception of more well to city dwellers.
    i have not seen stats to prove this but my assumption is that 10 million or so people NOT showing up in the trend line expected growth rate between 1930 and 1940 were under 16 year olds and over 50 year olds.
    these people just died and disappeared as if they were never here. this is also something that the federal government would NOT want to have made public and or highlight in media stories at the time so to not add further anxiety to an already stressed out population.
    victory or success has a 100 fathers but failure and defeat is an orphan. 1930-1940 was if anything a gigantic social/political failure on the part of the government at the time.
    do not for a second think the forces that created the conditions of the 1930-1940 period are ancient history. technological changes are the midwife to these social cataclysms. the automobile and the assembly line rendered agricultural labor redundant in much the same way the microcomputer/internet and its children have rendered a host of professions geographically redundant. AI will be even more disruptive which is why nationalism is rising and will become much much stronger in 10 years than it is today.
    long term human progress will be spectacular if we survive the current social upheavel which is evident throughout the western world.
    as the corpse of socialism dies out completely over the next decade or two and societies bill comes due for what everyone thought was free their human right or whatever euphemism you care to call access to other peoples money we all can decide how we want to reorganize our society.

  83. JamesT, 8chan is primarily a haven for virulent and violent white supremacy discussions. It also hosts discussions for QAnon, incel and pedophile groups. On the benign side, there are anime and cryptocurrency discussions. Shutting down 8chan will not end the discussions. Those people will find other places on the internet to talk just as the jihadis did when we shut down and disrupted their sites. If you’re desirous of seeing these discussions in white supremacy, incel and pedophilia for yourself, I’m certain you can find them with a little effort. I don’t think you’ll enjoy them. They’re truly ugly.
    Ugly has it’s place on the internet. When that ugly encourages violence towards others and celebrates that violence when it occurs, I believe it should be eliminated.

  84. Larry, you seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I specifically said I doubt Trump believes any of that white supremacist trash. What he says and tweets that encourages the white supremacists is just part of the con. It’s not his beliefs. He’s probably no more racist than most other rich white New Yorkers.

  85. Avatar Fred says:

    JP,
    “hate speech” to be defined by whom, since it doesn’t look like you are going to be making a donation for your hate speech?

  86. Avatar Terry says:

    Thank you for clarifying. I wasn’t aware of the 10 million depression deaths. That’s a bit over 8% of the 1930 population. Certainly could happen again – Robotics, AI, automation – only worse as fewer people living close to the land. My parents weren’t affected much but their families lived by hunting, fishing, and gardening.

  87. Avatar rho says:

    TTG,
    You want to fight extremism by curtailing free speech? Sounds like a proposal that the extremists of all various flavors would support, too.

  88. rho, only when it encourages and celebrates violence, especially against innocents.

  89. Avatar Terry says:

    I found these charts –
    https://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2005/12/demographics-baby-bust-and-boom.html
    You can see the large drops in the younger ages 0-4, 5-9, 10-14.
    About a 2% drop in birth in a population of 123,000,000 = 2,246,000 x the 3 age categories = 7,380,000 from birth rate alone.

  90. Walrus, I see your point about frustrated young males lashing out in destructive ways, including terrorism. It also helps explain the high rate of young black males engaged in shootings here in the US that Fred talked about earlier today. Perhaps this wouldn’t be as big a problem if we all had lower expectations. If you go into it with the attitude that life sucks and then you die, getting anything more than that out of life is a win and would make you pretty happy. In a perverted way, constant reminders that we’re all special and deserving of happiness and riches may be our undoing. It leads to inevitable fustration. Too bad all those fustrated young men can’t channel their natural enthusiasm into building something or meditating in the wilderness. Building and meditating requires suffering and, somehow, the young males of our species lost the stomach for that kind of suffering.

  91. Avatar Vegetius says:

    So what about this?
    “After today there is no longer any room for nuance. The President is a white nationalist terror leader. His supporters – ALL OF THEM – are by definition white nationalist terror supporters. The MAGA hat is a KKK hood. And this evil, racist scourge must be eradicated from society.” — — Reza Aslan
    https://twitter.com/rezaaslan/status/1158160628592209920
    Does this meet your “encourages violence especially against innocents” standard?
    Or do we have to wait until someone who happens to follows him on twitter to eradicate someone? (Which may have been the case with the Dayton shooting, if you’re paying attention).
    Either way, do we just curtail Reza Alsan’s speech?
    Or everyone who liked this tweet?
    Or people who retweeted it, whether they liked it or not?
    Or how about everyone who follows him on twitter?
    Or how about we get rid of twitter itself – for apparently condoning this sort of language?
    Or how about me, for posting this here?
    Or Colonel Lang for letting me?

  92. Reza Aslan may be in violation of twitter TOS for his eradication comment. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the FBI or local police asked him to explain it either in person or by phone interview. I find the logic in his statement severely lacking.

  93. Avatar Stueeeeee says:

    You didn’t answer Vegetius’s question. How about a MAGA hat? Should wearing it be banned? It seems you haven’t thought through this curtail free speech thing, but your heart is in the right place and that is all that matters.
    You want more laws. Funny.. if we actually enforced our immigration laws, this shooting may have not happened, and this country wouldn’t be breaking apart.

  94. Avatar Vegetius says:

    I didn’t ask about Twitter’s Terms of Service. Or what law enforcement may or may not do. Nor did I ask about logic.
    I asked you a simple question in good faith about your declared standard for curtailing free speech.
    I will ask again:
    Does Azlan’s statement meet your “encourages violence especially against innocents” standard?

  95. Avatar optimax says:

    An unknown high schooler in a suburb of Portland pinned up a sign that read “It’s ok to be white.” The administration, teachers and students freaked over what they interpreted as a racist hate crime. The students walked out of class one day and marched to protest white supremacy. I guess that means it’s not ok to be white. Democratic candidates say white supremacy is our greatest threat and yet blacks commit more mass shootings(three or more causaulties) than all other racial groups combined. The msm reports most mass shooters are white. Not true. Should these politicians and journalists be censored for deviating from the facts to stir up racial violence? Or need we criminalize pointing out facts about black violence in inner cities? The popular meme these days is white supremacy is the cause of all the inner cities problems.
    A black professor twits blacks will not be safe until all whites are killed. There are examples of threatening speech against all races by people of every race. To come to the point, I don’t trust the government to decide what is hate speech and what the punishment should be. I’ll stick with the test of yelling fire in a crowded theatre.

  96. Avatar optimax says:

    Every demographic change incurs violence. Whites taking American Indian land is an extreme example. I am not promoting violent reaction but predict we haven’t seen the end of it.

  97. Vegetius, ok I looked at his twitter comment and the conversation around it. Yes, Azlan is encouraging violence against the President and his supporters. It’s the Secret Service rather than the FBI who should be contacting Azlan. It’s up to twitter to suspend him. I can’t do it.

  98. Optimax, how about discussion boards and writings that encouraged three white supremacist mass killings in Christchurch, Poway and El Paso? That’s worse than yelling fire in a crowded theater and probably deadlier.

  99. Avatar JP Billen says:

    Fred – “to be defined by whom”.
    That is the crux of the problem, isn’t it? My brainfart was to let a jury do it. Shouldn’t matter if the wannabee murderer is left wing or right wing or just plain-out whacko. You might even be able to get Ilhan Omar in a civil action.
    Courtrooms and juries are certainly not an ideal option. They will probably never happen. I’m interested in your idea.

  100. Avatar different clue says:

    Wasn’t it the Reagan Administration which abolished the Fairness Doctrine?

  101. Avatar Vegetius says:

    Assuming that you could produce some examples of these incitements, what would be your method for separating the actual calls for violence from the fedposting?

  102. Avatar JP Billen says:

    TP – I figured you didn’t.
    As for those who thank vets for their service I say somewhat the same as you. But if it is a woman, I generally smile and tell her “It would sound better to me if you would say “Welcome Home” instead.

  103. Avatar John Minehan says:

    To be correct, this is less an issue of “racism” and more one of “Nativism.”
    Think “Bill the Butcher” from Gangs of New York, rather than “Simon Legree” from Uncle Tom’s Cabin.
    We have had these issues before. The interesting thing is that the nativists always lose. Time passes, new people come here and things change, generally for the best.
    James Madison probably wouldn’t have “dug” Lenny Bruce, but he would have found the freedom of speech issues presented interesting.

  104. Avatar John Minehan says:

    Why do so many people from across the political spectrum seeing fire arms as a means of political expression?

  105. Avatar John Minehan says:

    The Hobbit Nationalist are pretty much non-violent. they are big on “eating diner” and “living in burrows.”

  106. Avatar John Minehan says:

    Eating the enemy’s livers?
    Clearly, they don’t fight the Irish or the Welsh.

  107. Avatar John Minehan says:

    I don’t know. However, they also said the Irish (including Ulstermen in the 18th Century), the Jews from the Pale and the Italians would never assimilate.
    However, they did and very likely this next wave of people will also. Time will tell . . . .

  108. Avatar John Minehan says:

    Not a bad idea.
    I would say the Second Amendment probably pertains more to the “Unorganized Militia,” men (generally under most state military laws) of military age (generally 18 to 45 or 60) who are not in the Active Forces or Organized Reserves,

  109. Avatar John Minehan says:

    “If it is made clear to the average citizen that anyone with a gun is well trained it might take some of the fear out of it.”
    It also might get people thinking of guns as tools rather than as means of self-expression.

  110. Avatar John Minehan says:

    The M-1 was vastly more effective than the KAR-98, because it was semi-auto. people lose sight of that difference.
    To appreciate the difference, check out the battle oceans in SGT York (1941), where Gary Cooper has to come off the sights each so he can manipulate the bolt.

  111. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    TTG
    Vegetius’ example and your responses go to heart of this matter. You seem to have agreed that the tweet was encouraging violence, one of the two criteria you have given for the curtailment of 1A rights (presumably by law). Yet you have also said “Its up to twitter to suspend him” – i.e. in this case under your proposed, modified 1A regime the perpetrator would be allowed to speak freely and only be silenced if a commercial organization (Twitter) decided to do so. What is the difference between censoring this individual (or Twitter) and individuals on 8chan, or the platform as a whole? BTW the tweet is still up, so Twitter at least is apparently happy with what Aslan said.
    The Feds must of course investigate, with probable cause, conspiracies to commit violence against specific targets. But one person’s hate speech is anther person’s legitimate free expression. Defining and banning it will be the thin end of the wedge and is a Bad Idea.

  112. Avatar turcopolier says:

    John Minehan
    I grew up with the m-1 Garand. I was armed with it in the ARNG, had one in the rifle rack on the wall of my room at VMI and possessed the sniper variant in VN. I have owned several Mausers of WW2 vintage, a 1903 Springfield and a Krag. The M-1 is a vastly superior weapon to any or all of these.

  113. Avatar Horace says:

    “It is well planned and targeted.”
    I agree and not just in the American context. The European peoples have been targeted for destruction. We are in an existential civilizational war. This is a radical assertion to normie Americans with our bewildered good will to the other and construction of a convincing explanation of the actors and their methodology is a non-trivial task. Ongoing…

  114. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    John Minehan,
    The immigrants of past eras wanted to assimilate, to be “good Americans” and society demanded it. Most everyone loved America and saw the opportunity and worked for it. My paternal grandparents came from the MENA. They used to go to Hudson’s – a major higher end department store – and just walk around observing Americans; learning what they wore, how they talked, what they purchased so that they could emulate and assimilate.
    Now a significant segment of society is telling immigrants to not assimilate and that America is evil and to turn on those already here. Immigrants are given free stuff just for being here. The need for low skilled labor isn’t what it was back in the 1920s
    That is the issue. That is why these people are invaders and not immigrants.

  115. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    SRW,
    And the Swiss? Why are they not slaughtering each other despite high personal gun ownership?
    IMO, because they are a homogenous society.

  116. Avatar Terry says:

    “Building and meditating requires suffering and, somehow, the young males of our species lost the stomach for that kind of suffering. ”
    I think there is a lot to this. Modern parenting seems to hover over the child, doing far too much for them that they could do themselves. And most kids aren’t allowed to roam free outside anymore, self directing themselves in play and exploration, rather they are shuttled from activity to activity.
    Thus rather than their instinct being channeled into a sense of growing abilities, capability and personal power they feel powerless except to act out in a fit of rage to try get attention and manipulate.

  117. Avatar JMH says:

    (CNN) A Twitter account that appears to belong to Dayton mass shooter Connor Betts retweeted extreme left-wing and anti-police posts, as well as tweets supporting Antifa, or anti-fascist, protesters.

  118. Barbara Ann, your last paragraph sums it up. Hate speech is one thing. I’m sure some consider my frequent referring to Trump as a conman and bullshit artist as hate speech. Apparently no one is calling for Azlan to be suspended or banned. That’s usually how it works on twitter. In this particular case, the Secret Service will or has already looked at Azlan’s twitter comments. Encouraging and celebrating mass murder or any murder should be squashed. Platforms where this kind of talk is the norm like 8chan should be taken down. 4chan doesn’t allow that crap. That’s why 8chan came about. The same goes for platforms catering to child pornography and pedophilia. Take them down. Anyone can stand on the street corner and yell all the hate speech they want until the community decides they had enough and has him removed or someone punches him in the mouth. That’s what free speech means.

  119. Avatar John Minehan says:

    A lot of Swiss gun ownership is a direct function of service in their militia.
    I would guess the fact that their is a lot of “gun education” is a factor as is the fact their reservists keep their service weapons in their homes.
    Guns aren’t “cool” they are a fact of life, a tool..

  120. Avatar Greco says:

    President Trump does himself little favor with his rhetoric at times, but he’s not a racist nor does he cynically employ dog whistles to rouse up racist sentiment. Larry Johnson is correct in saying that the Left has no real argument against Trump’s election and that they are reduced to strawmen arguments and ad hominem attacks, like he’s a racist and a Russia puppet, to deflect away from their own failures.
    The threat of terrorism is largely overblown and too often these tragedies are used to support more draconian policies when in reality the real failure is inaction within the framework of existing policies or the result of blowback from existing bad policies.
    President Obama knew this and commendably downplayed the threat of terrorism. But he did make a mistake when lying about the nature of jihadist threats. To name but a few examples; ISIS and Al-Qaeda elements were referred to as moderate rebels, cover which allowed these groups to grow and thrive again; four American servicemen were murdered inside a US consulate as a result of an attack planned by Al-Qaeda to commemorate 9/11, but the Obama government claimed it was the result of a spontaneous protest that got out of control; Obama’s Attorney General Loretta Lynch ordered the censure of Islamic references in recordings of Omar Mateen’s calls to police as he murdered nearly 50 people in Orlando. Time and time again President Obama deceived the American people when it came to jihadists threats and, although I admired him for his desire to leave Iraq, he made a grave error downplaying the jihadists threat that ultimately worsened the situation in Iraq and beyond.
    I also think there is something to be said of Beto O’Rourke, who has been polling close to zero percent, and how he was handed a political lifeline as result of this tragedy. He couldn’t help hide his glee as he spoke to a national audience. The smile he had on his face highlights how these tragedies serve all too often as political opportunities to bat opponents on the head rather than solemn, grim reflections on the problems we face. It would be much better if our politicians acknowledge the hard realities of failed policies. On gun control, for example, Republicans tend to get the bulk of the blame, but Democrats would do themselves a lot more favors if they managed to gain the trust of Republican voters rather than call them white supremacists for supporting President Trump.
    And finally, the shooter’s alleged manifesto strongly suggests he’s a revolutionary communist and white-separatist ideologue who subscribes to population replacement theory. He claims corporations are destroying America and the environment. He refers to Europeans as “comrades.” He believes universal healthcare and income are necessary, but that having too many dependents would harm the potential success of these programs. And he titled his manifesto “An Inconvenient Truth” which is possibly a nod to Al Gore’s documentary and book of the same name.
    It may seem that tragedies like these should embolden federal authorities, but it’s worth recalling what happened in the siege of Ruby Ridge when hundreds of ATF and FBI agents descended on the home of Randy Weaver and his family. Randy Weaver, much like the El Paso shooter Patrick Cruisius, identified as a white separatist, except he didn’t carry out a mass shooting, his alleged crime was the result of being entrapped by an overzealous undercover ATF agent. Rather surrender to his arrest, he stood his ground in a stand off that illustrated just how draconian agencies like the ATF had grown to become. A jury later found that Randy Weaver’s only crime was a failure to appear in court.
    You can see this report from the NYT for more details:

    https://www.youtube.com/embed/wncvHvUujX8

  121. Avatar John Minehan says:

    I came along after the M-1. the only time I ever saw the weapon first hand was when I was sent to the American Issues Conference (Forum?) at USAFA as a First.
    That weapon had a big effect in WWII . . . .

  122. Avatar Fred says:

    dc,
    Thanks for pointing out my error; faulty memory on my part. According to wiki the FCC stopped enforcement of the doctrine in ’87 and eliminated the rule itself in 2011. Though I recall many a politician running for election/re-election stating it needed to be reinstated. Unsurprisingly zero legislation resulted. It is similar to all that talk about Chinese currency manipulation that resulted in little action until Trump imposed tariffs.

  123. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    Christchurch is in New Zealand. Perhaps the socialist Prime Minister can isolate her nation from the internet. It won’t effect people in Australia, which is where the murderer came from.

  124. Avatar Mark Logan says:

    Barbara Ann,
    Currently we live under the “Brandenburg test” for our definition of what is and what isn’t legal speech in this area.
    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/brandenburg_test
    It’s illegal to incite a riot, it’s illegal to incite violence…or an illegal act, but only immediate and clearly specific violence (or other illegal acts). The examples given are illuminating.

  125. Avatar prawnik says:

    The emergence of people like the El Paso and Dayton shooters is the proverbial canary in the coal mine.
    Our society responds by saying that there is something wrong with the canaries.

  126. Fred, the tie that binds the murderers from Christchurch, Poway and El Paso is 8chan. The Poway murderer even cited the Christchurch murderer’s manifesto from 8chan as an inspiration. If the New Zealand Prime Minister can get rid of 8chan, good on her. She’d be doing everyone a favor.

  127. Avatar Artemesia says:

    I listen to C Span call-in program way too much.
    This morning opened with a question for Parents only.
    More than a few “parents” opined that “the schools need to do more — hire more counselors; parents are not capable of ‘teaching about relationships’ or ‘educating on how to get along with diverse groups.’ ”
    It beggars logic: parents have been turning their kids over to the “in loco parentis” schools for over 50 years; we are seeing the results. More of the same = the solution?

    On this essay in general: On most of the points TTG made, I disagree completely: Trump’s scripted speech was appalling and frightening.
    TTG turned Socrates upside down: “I know some really nice ____ and ___,
    Therefore ALL ___ are really nice.”
    Then, there are facts that a radio host Larry O’Connor made on C Span yesterday: the so-called Manifesto attacked, in more than equal measure, climate concerns, health insurance, etc.
    https://www.c-span.org/video/?463212-4/washington-journal-larry-oconnor-discusses-podcast-news-day&playEvent
    Media & other ‘deep state’ elites framed the narrative to focus on racism & so-called ‘white supremacism’.
    Rick Wiles, host of Christian evangelical TruNews tv, slow-walked through the photos and assertions about the “shooter,” his activities and the “proofs” of them. There is no There There: the event was contrived, then reframed to suit the intentions of the PTB / Borg .
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63hUnOoxJgs
    Why was that done?
    It’s a shame TTG was sloppy enough to megaphone the Borg’s efforts.

  128. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    Mark Logan
    Thanks for the link. IMO the law as it stands has the balance about right. There is no need to criminalize ‘hate speech’, it should be enough to go after folks who knowingly incite violence. Pseudo anonymity of the kind provided by 8chan should not be an insurmountable obstacle, assuming law enforcement has the resources (and the will) to go after such people.
    In the example given by Vegetius, Aslan’s rhetoric most definitely does not amount to willing incitement to perpetrate an imminent act of violence, it is merely a strongly worded sentiment. I greatly fear for our society should the state decide that our delicate sensibilities must be protected from such expression.

  129. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    Thanks for your reply TTG, it seems we must agree to disagree on this issue.
    For me the danger of providing an excuse for creeping state censorship is on a far larger scale than that of the occasional tragedy where the perp may have been ‘radicalized’ by the opinions of others. These people are accidents waiting to happen in any case. Absent a coordinated plan to recruit such people to kill I do not actually think that the word “terrorism” is applicable. They are lone nuts with a sick word view and a death wish. There will always be such people and they will always find ways to communicate. The day we decide the appropriate response is to declare a domestic War on Terror we can kiss goodbye to a free society.
    The deplatforming genie will be extremely hard to put back in the bottle and I fear that once out the collateral damage may be considerable. The word “radicalized” has itself already taken on new meaning in the liberal media. Perhaps one day I will have been deemed to have been radicalized by what I read here.

  130. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    How did you determine 8chan bound all those things together? Furthermore I did not suggest the socialist who blames her own people for the killings in Christchurch ‘get rid of 8chan’. I proposed she isolate her country from the internet – all of it. Then she can keep her people safe from bad think – which is found on the internet. Visitors like that guy from Australia who committed all those crimes won’t be affected.

  131. Avatar Vegetius says:

    >the shooter’s alleged manifesto strongly suggests he’s a revolutionary communist
    Really? Let me guess, so Democrats are the real racists?

  132. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Hi LeaNder

  133. Avatar optimax says:

    TTG
    All I know about 8chan is what you and others say about it. If it encourages mass murder, take it down. A law suit by victims of the the El Paso shooting could probably shut it down the way Jesse Ventura’s suit destroyed Grinder or whatever website it was. The thing is I see comments advocating violence in the comments section all over the place. Some people think a gun solves everything.
    A satirical website says the leading cause of mass murder is your political opponent. That does seem to be a popular explanation for every one of societies problems. But the DOJ has been studying the commonality of all mass murders in the US since 1966. They started the study 2 years ago, during the Trump administration. Here’s the link to this short article on Zero Hedge. I think you’ll find it interesting.
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-06/heres-what-criminology-professor-learned-studying-every-mass-shooting-1966
    Thanks for starting this post, TTG. It’s important to understand what drives this violent trend.

  134. Fred, 8chan is where each of those murderers put their manifestos. 8chan is where they were cheered on and 8chan is where the white supremacist dirtbags made a game out of upping the body counts from these murders. The vast majority of people who resent the presence of non-white immigrants in the US are not on 8chan or approve of that activity. I bet even most of those who believe people of white western European are superior to all others stay away from 8chan and their shenanigans. Now you want to isolate an entire country from the internet because of 8chan? Come on, Fred, I know you’re just being sarcastic.

  135. Avatar Nancy K says:

    He also hated woman, sounds like an all around hater. The only thing they seem to have in common is both are or were unhappy and seemed to want everyone else to pay for their failings.

  136. Optimax, thanks for that link. That article is excellent and quite informative. I wish it would be disseminated far wider than just in Zero Hedge. In fact, I’ll repeat the main points right here. That study should be a basis for congressional action, but I won’t hold my breath.
    “First, the vast majority of mass shooters in our study experienced early childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age.”
    “Second, practically every mass shooter we studied had reached an identifiable crisis point in the weeks or months leading up to the shooting.”
    “Third, most of the shooters had studied the actions of other shooters and sought validation for their motives.”
    “Fourth, the shooters all had the means to carry out their plans.”
    The main points reinforce my view that sites like 8chan should be shut down to cut down on avenues available to potential shooters for “validation for their motives.” Earlier in this conversation, Walrus made some astute comments on the clash of expectations and frustrations among young white males in our society. I think he’s on to something.

  137. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    TTG,
    Are you aware than in Japan, last week, a young man went to an anime production plant, doused the place in gasoline and dekliberately lit a fire that killed 35?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyoto_Animation_arson_attack
    I doubt that the perpetrator was tuned into 8chan.
    These events have a contagion aspect to them. The contagion effect is well know with suicides. If a high school student kills him/herself, there is a statistically significant increase in the probability that other students will also kill themselves at the same school or in the same community/different school. This is well known phenomenon and schools and communities take measures, post a member’s suicide, to try to prevent it.
    Same goes for celebrity suicides. There is a spike in suicides in the larger society that has been exposed to the “news” after a highly publicized celebrity suicide.
    Then there is research on riots and how they escalate. It starts with one extra aggressive rioter throwing a brick, then the next aggressive rioter, then the two or three most aggressive, then 5 or 6, etc, exponentially growing until it’s out of control.
    A clue to prevention may be found in ISIS “inspired” terrorist attacks. If we look at terrorist attacks in the US, English speaking countries and Europe, where ISIS can inspire, but much less materially support, we see a spike during the years when ISIS was winning or maintaining control of territory and putting out videos of their execution of infidels, apostates, etc.
    Once ISIS began to lose ground, the ISIS inspired attacks began to decrease proportionally until, now, where they are at just about 0 in the afore mentioned countries. Once ISIS began to be seen as losers, no one wanted to emulate them. The number of muslims who feel disaffected in those countries hasn’t changed.
    The mass shootings by young men began in the late 90s with a school shooting in Oregon, followed soon after by Columbine. Then the phenomenon escalate steadily to date. It’s like the riot intensity increase in slow motion (over two decades).
    IMO 8chan has nothing to do with it. The ball started rolling long before 8chan existed. Somehow we need to make it a losers’ game. IMO that would mean keeping kids off the internet. Kids have their own culture where they share covert values. We must stop them from becoming parts of communities wherein shooting up (or otherwise killing) innocent people en masse is romanticized. This is a Lord of the Flies situation on the internet in general and has little to nothing to do with Trump, white nationalism or any of that, IMO.

  138. Avatar Bobo says:

    Patrick C. Is innocent until proven guilty and if found guilty I hope he meets his Maker quickly thereafter. My heart goes out to El Paso for its dignity in handling this horrific loss to its citizens, the families of those lost and the injured. No city or no one deserves an act such as was committed in El Paso this weekend and we as citizens should implore our lawmakers to seek a better way in how these type of acts are stopped.
    Time will tell what the true motivations or reasoning of this young mans act. It is too early as emotions are high and statements are inaccurate as well as accusations. No question Mental Health is part of this and should be the initial phase in seeking a better way whether towards easing the way for families to seek assistance for a family member or certainly a reason to remove & limit firearms from individuals undergoing treatment. Society should demand that at a minimum.
    Now there is no place in modern society for White Supremacy or its adherents and I take it from others that 8Chan is a cesspool for degenerates to gather but then they will find another site to gather. I leave it to others for disposal.
    Looking at the picture from Charlotte at the heading indicates that they all should not be classed under one umbrella. Granted it is not PC to make that statement but should one object then please place it where one smiles the most.

  139. Avatar jonst says:

    Maybe because it always has been? Lamentably so or not.

  140. Eric, I realize 8chan isn’t the font of all mass killings, nor is the only online haven for white supremacists. The majority of mass murders are perpetrated for personal motives like workplace and family grievances or gang rivalries. 8chan is, however, the nexus for three recent mass murders. It should be shut down as the first step in denying some potential future mass murderer the validation he craves for his motivations. Hunting down and eliminating these sites will aid in controlling the contagion effect you mentioned and will help curtail the romanticization of those mass murders.

  141. Agnes, incel stands for involuntary celibate. It’s primarily young men who can’t keep a girlfriend and certainly can get any sex. They seem to blame women or anybody else for their predicament, but won’t blame their own pathetic selves. I never knew there was a community for these sorry losers until recently.

  142. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    Where are you getting your information since it appears to be incorrect? The owner of the service that hosts 8chan says the shooter in Dayton did not post the document there but to instagram, which is owned by Facebook.
    https://www.cnet.com/news/8chan-owner-says-el-paso-shooter-didnt-post-manifesto/
    “Now you want to isolate…”
    No TTG, I just wish to point out that what you are calling for is counterproductive. It is becoming pretty apparent from ongoing reporting that the man in Ohio had previously been identified as dangerous and yet, just like the school system in Broward County, little was done and no criminal referals were made when he was still in high school. Similarly there is no mention of what impact Mom, Dad or the “community” where he spent the first 18 years of his life had on him.
    On a “manefesto” note Congressman Castro of Texas has decided that supporters of Donald J. Trump and the businesses that employ him are “fueling a campaign of hate that labels Hispanic immigrants as ‘invaders.’” That isn’t going to end well, though nothing will happen to the Congressman.
    https://www.westernjournal.com/ct/texas-trump-supporters-doxed-democratic-congressman-joaquin-castro/

  143. Fred, in that same article Facebook called bullshit on the 8chan owner. The El Paso murderer’s instagram account was inactive for a year and was supposedly not accessed until Facebook deactivated it. The manifesto was uploaded to 8chan shortly before the murderer started his killing. Based on that timing, perhaps he had an accomplice who uploaded it to 8chan. Wouldn’t that be interesting.
    The Ohio murderer doesn’t appear to have anything in common with the El Paso murderer. I’ve heard of no connection to 8chan. He’s just another mass murderer like so many other disgruntled coworkers, family members and rival gang members. Taking down 8chan and other such sites won’t stop all those other murderers, just the white supremacist ones. That would be worth it.
    So Congressman Castro named some financial contributors to Trump. Sounds like something that would be on Wikileaks. Sunshine. We can all use a little more sunshine.

  144. Avatar turcopolier says:

    TTG
    I recall from “The Washing of the Spears” that the Zulu impis were populated by young men who had not yet “qualified” for sex.

  145. Avatar turcopolier says:

    TTG
    We were participants and managers of killing and death. Are you repentant? I am not.

  146. No. I am content and at peace with my actions.

  147. Avatar Kevo says:

    Trump won because Hillary was an old, corrupt, awful politician and Trump ran with an effective campaign slogan “MAGA” and not selling the country out to corporations and China.
    If we are going to treat White Supremacists like terrorist, what personal rights will be taken away from suspects? Will we also treat ANTIFA the same? Will the federal government going into our cities like Chicago and treat the violence by gangs the same way, should they not be treated like terrorist.
    I’m scared of the thought of giving the federal government this power.

  148. Avatar Monk says:

    “…8chan is primarily a haven for virulent and violent white supremacy discussions…”
    A sincere question.
    How much of those discussions is/are LARP or low effort shitposting? And how much is genuine white supremacy?

  149. Avatar rjj says:

    Hello to the new you.

  150. Avatar Barbara Ann says:

    This may interest you TTG.
    8chan is still down as of now. Finding a replacement for Cloudflare’s DoS protection services is evidently proving difficult. Providers seem to be shunning this site now it is pariah. It may be that they will simply find it difficult/impossible to find the services/hardware necessary to stay on the internet.
    https://techcrunch.com/2019/08/05/8chans-new-internet-host-was-kicked-off-its-own-host-just-hours-later/

  151. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    “The Ohio murderer doesn’t appear to have anything in common with the El Paso murderer.”
    He was a leftist, which doesn’t fit the narrative of ‘white supremacist’, which is why the media isn’t covering it in the same manner.
    Congressman Castro is not brining sunshine since he knows campaign finance contributions are all reported to the FEC and are already public knowledge. What he is doing by labeling these individuals as “fueling a campaign of hate that labels Hispanic immigrants as ‘invaders.’” – those are his words as quoted in the press – is highlighting their political activitivies with an intent that they be harrassed and fired for exercising their rights as American citizens. It’s the Obama playbook amplified over the years. “Get in their faces”.

  152. Avatar Fred says:

    TTG,
    We need censorship? WIll we also need to censor the next means of communications moved to by – is that “white supremecists” only or are other potential mass murderers to be censored too? Regardless, we need to censor that too, won’t we. Who gets to do the lableing, the algorythim programers of Google, Facebook, Twitter? Does Donald J. Trump pick them? I hear bad things about that guy, sure we can trust him?

  153. Avatar Ryan says:

    Interesting read here:
    https://medium.com/@_adeliajohnson_/my-ex-boyfriend-was-the-dayton-shooter-2b7f2d792b68
    Basically his ex girlfriend thinks it was essentially suicide. Just suicide in the fashion of a mentally fucked up and moderately evil person.

  154. Avatar Ryan says:

    They assimilated only via a 50 year period of essentially zero immigration. If we hope for the current set of foreigners to assimilate, we need a immigration moratorium.

  155. Avatar John Minehan says:

    I wonder if it “always” has been?
    The fellow who shot, for example, had a political grievance (albeit, an irrational one) against a specific individual.
    The fellow who shot McKinley was an anarchist with (an also irrational) grievance against the President.
    In the American West, several people killed large numbers of people, but it was for financial gain (people killed during train or bank robberies) or killed to collect a bounty.
    The largest mass murder in American history (the bombing of a school about 100 years ago) did not involve firearms and involved a specific grievance.
    Just shooting up a place for no apparent reason seems to be a more modern phenomenon. I could be wrong, but just from what I can recall, this probably goes back around 50 years, maybe to the Texas Tower shooter?

  156. Avatar Eric Newhill says:

    Yes. I’m a proud white man. Not a racist, a culturist. Everyone knows my culture is the best and those who positively contribute to it are my brothers and sisters regardless of skin color. That’s why they all want to come to the country that people like me built. They don’t want to go to Mexico or anywhere in Africa or the MENA.
    Deal with it – or don’t. What you think means nothing to me.

  157. Avatar Fred says:

    Col.,
    I remember reading that book long ago. I believe that was implemented by Shaka early on in his reign. I believe the other significant introduction of his was elimination of ritual combat, skirmish and raiding that had been prevelent previously.

  158. Avatar turcopolier says:

    All
    Pacifica Advocate was benned by me from SST long ago. authors – Do not post his comments.

  159. Avatar TonyL says:

    TTG,
    Thank you for writing this post. And I aprreciate your courage, White Supremacist Terrorism is almost a taboo subject in conservative blogs. Antifa terrorism is treated the same way in liberal logs.
    And I also thank our host Colonel Lang for this forum, where people can debate emotional issue like this topic without it becoming a childish flame war.

  160. Avatar turcopolier says:

    TonyL
    Yes. A lot of White People think they are smarter and more capable than African-Americans. I don’t think that belief extends much to Asians or Latinos. I spent my whole life dealing with all kinds of people all over the world and know that there are capable people and incapable people in all populations, but I do not share the notion that “White Supremacy” is a threatening movement or indeed a movement at all in the US. Tucker Carlson is right. OTOH I do not want this blog to be an echo chamber for me. So, unless you are an constant propagandist against the US and its institutions I will probably tolerate you for a while.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.