“From numerous interviews with doctors, Ghouta residents, rebel fighters and their families….many believe that certain rebels received chemical weapons via the Saudi intelligence chief, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, and were responsible for carrying out the (deadly) gas attack,” writes Gavlak. (back up version here).
Rebels told Gavlak that they were not properly trained on how to handle the chemical weapons or even told what they were. It appears as though the weapons were initially supposed to be given to the Al-Qaeda offshoot Jabhat al-Nusra." infowars
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Once something like Sarin that is colorless and odorless gets loose, the cloud drifts around killing people until it disperses.
Government artillery and rocket fire into these areas may have been a coincidence since there has been a lot of fighting there.
Bandar is the head of Saudi intelligence now. Is the US going to bomb Saudi Arabia? pl
http://www.infowars.com/rebels-admit-responsibility-for-chemical-weapons-attack/
It is all pretty clear. You best described the current “You Tube” based foreign policy by posting that link to the “French” boy friend a couple of hours ago. What forces, or interests, move the current and previous administration to make such rash and EXPENSIVE decisions based on laughable intel? One wonders.
Colonel
The terrorists of 9/11 were nearly 100% citizens of KSA and nothing happened to that country.
Instead special permissions were agreed by the two countries to “smuggle” two plane loads of Saudis out of the US when the airspace was closed.
Whereupon I echo TTG’s observation: Someone needs to separate the Saudis from their vast wealth.
MM,
A policy of ‘rollback’, followed by ‘liberation’ — pursued cautiously, of course?
It could perhaps be usefully combined with the unmasking of the Saudi ‘fifth columns’, and ‘agents of influence’, both in the U.S. and the U.K.
Of course, after due consideration, it might be considered that such a policy was reckless. Strategies aimed at ‘regime change’ have to be thought through carefully, because when people are backed into a corner their reactions are liable to be unpredictable.
But these are matters on which, at the least there should be an open public debate, in your country as in mine.
Colonel, watch the vid. 🙂
http://www.markfiore.com/mark-fiore-blog/cartoons/fireagra-for-foreign-policy-impotence.html
All:
From the BBC Persian Service (in Persian)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/persian/iran/2013/08/130831_l12_iran_syria_war_zarif_un_usa.shtml
The Iranian Foreign Minister, in an interview with the magazine “Asman”, states that 9 months earlier the Iranian Government had informed the US Government that hand-made sarin-based chemical weapons were being sent to Syria.
The formal note was conveyed through the United States Interest Section in the Swiss Embassy in Tehran.
The complete Persian text is here:
http://www.irdiplomacy.ir/fa/page/1920689/%D9%85%D8%AA%D9%86+%DA%AF%D9%81%D8%AA%DA%AF%D9%88%DB%8C+%D9%85%D8%AD%D9%85%D8%AF+%D8%AC%D9%88%D8%A7%D8%AF+%D8%B8%D8%B1%DB%8C%D9%81+%D8%A8%D8%A7+%D9%87%D9%81%D8%AA%D9%87+%D9%86%D8%A7%D9%85%D9%87+%D8%A2%D8%B3%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86.html
I wondered about the provenance of the information. A quick search does not call into question the author’s credibility. Here is what I found:
.
The author of this piece is Dale Gavlak, a correspondent for Mint Press news where she is described as follows:
.
Dale Gavlak is a Middle East correspondent for Mint Press News. Gavlak has been stationed in Amman, Jordan for over two decades. An expert in Middle Eastern affairs, Gavlak currently covers the Levant region of the Middle East, contributing to the AP, National Public Radio, BBC and Mint Press News, writing on topics including politics, social issues and economic trends. Dale holds a M.A. in Middle Eastern Studies from the University of Chicago.
.
other articles by her are listed at
http://www.mintpressnews.com/author/dale-gavlak/
David Habakkuk ,
How surprising was it that Prime Minister Cameron lost the Syrian intervention vote in your Parliament ? I believe Cameron loosing that vote was one of the reasons President Obama decided to go to our Congress for authorization to strike Syria . On the whole this may very well be a good day for our national comity . At least we will have a robust debate and all of our Political Leaders will be on record regarding the Syrian Misadventure and more broadly the War Powers Act .
It would appear that Obama and the witches and warlocks in charge of foreign policy knew this all along. Otherwise, why the fierce urgency of bombing now, before the facts come out? Why deny the weapons inspectors the authority to provide information about who done it? The dots just don’t connect unless something else is going on.
Last week there were reports of rebels trained by the US in Jordan moving on Damascus. Forcing the Syrians to prepare for a US attack could provide the rebels the opening in Syrian defenses that the rebels need.
Yes. If Obama won’t release to the public the name of the Syrian army unit that allegedly made this CW attack, the name of its commander, the name of the official giving the order for the attack I hope a public hearing in Congress will demand them. Should there be a link to the Saudi intelligence agency then I sure hope the Congress gets the facts of who those individual (SA officials) were. Then they can get the names of all those on those Saudis on the two planes you refer to and see who is connected to whom.
Yes. If Obama won’t release to the public the name of the Syrian army unit that allegedly made this CW attack, the name of its commander, the name of the official giving the order for the attack I hope a public hearing in Congress will demand them. Should there be a link to the Saudi intelligence agency then I sure hope the Congress gets the facts of who those individual (SA officials) were. Then they can get the names of all those on those Saudis on the two planes you refer to and see who is connected to whom.
MM and DH,
I would not encourage bankrupting the royal family. (Don’t worry, DH. I’m only talking about the Saudi royal family.) I’d just like to see them loose enough to put a serious kink in their discretionary spending. They will still need a good sum of money to keep their masses quiet. I would not seek regime change, revolution or any other unpredictable craziness. Just take a bite out of their wallets and keep quiet about it. Maybe even offer them condolences at their loss.
As Obama said “This attack is an assault on human dignity.” If it turns out to be SA then extricating ourselves from the mess is essential. The question then is what assets of the SA government is he going to attack, or will he just paper this over with speeches?
But maybe add to your suggested mix a few targeted drone strikes; – with no one taken responsibility …but offer them condolences about their losses,,,
TTG,
While I despise the Saudi royals more than you do, “just taking a bite out of their wallets” sounds a little colonial! Which brings me to a question: everybody I know in the Middle East believes that Saudi Arabia has existed since its inception purely by the good graces of the USA. Without that constant protection Egypt, Iraq – hell, maybe even Jordan! – could have just walked in. Perhaps we are congenitally predisposed to conspiracy theories, but no Arab I know believes that SA would act (e.g. in its relations with jihadis) without the CIA knowing of and condoning its actions.
Perkins, in Confessions of an Economic Hitman, asserts that after the one time SA went against the USA (oil embargo) it was faced with two options: be wiped out, or tie itself completely into the Western financial system in exchange for infrastructure development. Is it possible that it has tied itself in so deeply that it is now able to buy its independence, to the extent of financing the very people the USA is fighting? Or is this all just a sick, staged game to make Lockheed et al. even richer? While these two extremes are obviously a gross simplification, I would welcome the views of the people here on where they think the relation stands on this continuum.
I suppose it’ll then be transformed into gas for peace, humanity, and democracy.
Karim
IMO you should try to escape the fetters of neo-anticolonialism, It rots the brain like political science. Most international politics is about ambition for power not money. pl
PL,
I am trying to escape those fetters! Unfortunately, I studied political science…
In fact I ended up studying political science because I never understood power – neither why people want it, nor why people respect it – and I thought PolSci might enlighten me. (As you probably guessed, it hasn’t.)
If this indeed turns out to be true, I wonder how the Obama administration would handle it. Then again, can they handle the truth??
Have you folks clicked on the links to the underlying article(s), and seen the disclaimers? This seems like unvetted freelance work.
FYI:
“Dale Gavlak assisted in the research and writing process of this article, but was not on the ground in Syria. Reporter Yahya Ababneh, whom the report was written in collaboration with, was the correspondent on the ground in Ghouta who spoke directly with the rebels, their family members, victims of the chemical weapons attacks and local residents.
Gavlak is a MintPress News Middle East correspondent who has been freelancing for the AP as a Amman, Jordan correspondent for nearly a decade. This exclusive report is not an Associated Press article, rather it is exclusive to MintPress News.”
http://original.antiwar.com/Dale-Gavlak/2013/08/30/syrians-in-ghouta-claim-saudi-supplied-rebels-behind-chemical-attack/
Ruiz
Yes. Yes. One begins in doubt and dances in chains toward an answer. Do you know Bandar? I do, or did. pl
Col.
How can we ordinary citizens figure out who is to be believed in this mess as to who is doing the gas? Do you have any reliable facts to help us?
Whether I know Bandar or not has nothing to do with the value I place on a report. I place a higher value on Associated Press reports than on reports from MintPress for reasons that should be understood. This post is not based on an “admissions to AP” and it is misleading to include that in the post.
It was also more than a little misleading to put the AP’s name in the subhead and the lede. This doesn’t automatically discredit the story, of course, but potentially a red flag.
I would suggest substituting ‘Mint Press” for “AP” in the title.
Babak,
This could be important evidence. It should definitely go to the UN. I hope the Iranian government releases the note sent through the Swiss in full. I haven’t been able to find this in the english language press at all. If you come across any, please post a link.
Ruiz
Anything else? pl
LOL.
Thanks for the laff.
Colonel
Could he be right ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ha1rEhovONU&feature=youtu.be
Echo’s in PressTV:
http://edition.presstv.ir/iphone/detail.aspx?id=321260
I will keep searching for the English translation of the two articles that were cited above.
Wait, wait, since the Youtube & facebook standards of proof suffices …
… because the Iranians are EVIL they just said hand-made sarin-based chemical weapons were being sent to Syria in order to DECEIVE the US, and to allow Assad to use CW with deniability – i.e. not only did Assad use CW, this is proof Iran is complicit also.
Ex-British Ambassador Craig Murray opens differences between British and American Intelligence assessments of the gas attacks by arguing that the failure of the British Troodos GCHQ base on Cyprus (the most advanced in the Middle East, he claims) to intercept Syrian army signals suggests that they did not occur and were likely fabricated and passed to the US/NSA by Mossad.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2013/08/the-troodos-conundrum/
All
My thanks to ruiz for focussing my attention on the originators of this story. these are the Mint Press reporter and the Jordan based Arab stringer. would anyone know how to contact either? Additionally, it wouold be desirable to have someone on the ground in Damascus re-interview in the afflicted area. Anyone? pl
Beaver
Clark has said the same thing for ten years now. pl
Has anyone heard or read of the count of “rebel fighters” killed or incapacitated in the gas attack. If the number of children is available, so should the number of fighters.
Colonel, TTG,
Did you notice the opening preface of the Mint article?
http://www.mintpressnews.com/witnesses-of-gas-attack-say-saudis-supplied-rebels-with-chemical-weapons/168135/
“Reporter Yahya Ababneh, with whom the report was written in collaboration, was the correspondent on the ground in Ghouta who spoke directly with the rebels, their family members, victims of the chemical weapons attacks and local residents. ”
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And Saudi Intel Chief Prince Bandar (“al-Habib” Bandar’s moniker referred to by al-qaida types fighting in syria)’s involvement:
http://www.businessinsider.com/saudis-russia-sochi-olympics-terrorism-syria-2013-8
“Business Insider, reporter Geoffrey Ingersoll highlighted Saudi Prince Bandar’s role in the two-and-a-half year Syrian civil war.”
Col. Lang:
Can you please clarify your position? If I’m reading this correctly, you are positing: (1) Bandar is supplying the Syrian rebels with chemical weapons, (2) the rebels are responsible for the 21 Aug attack, and (3) Obama & Kerry, et. al., are mistakenly relying on intel that came from Israeli sources.
Have I got all this right?
FYI:
“Clarification: Dale Gavlak assisted in the research and writing process of this article, but was not on the ground in Syria. Reporter Yahya Ababneh, with whom the report was written in collaboration, was the correspondent on the ground in Ghouta who spoke directly with the rebels, their family members, victims of the chemical weapons attacks and local residents.
Gavlak is a MintPress News Middle East correspondent who has been freelancing for the AP as a Amman, Jordan correspondent for nearly a decade. This report is not an Associated Press article; rather it is exclusive to MintPress News.”
Hmmm, I wonder why the AP did not pick up this story. Perhaps they’re in on the conspiracy.
your fav
Why the new blog name? trying to be cute? “Hmmm, I wonder why the AP did not pick up this story. Perhaps they’re in on the conspiracy?” This is just snotty. Do it again and I will ban you under your usual name. pl
your fav
My position is perfectly clear. I suppose you want it all in one place so that you can post it somewhere. To summarize: I think the case is not convincingly made that the Syrian Government is the perpetrator. The assertion of the possession of evidence is not evidence. Let them show us the SIGINT reports and the overhead photography of Syrian forces activity. pl
PL,
The only email address I found for Dale Gavlak is on the Mint Press site, dgavlak@mintpressnews.com. She’s also on twitter (@dalegavlak). Since she worked for AP for at least a decade, I’m sure other AP reporters know how to reach her.
Yahya Ababneh is on Linkedin (http://jo.linkedin.com/pub/yahya-ababneh/63/830/108). If you’re registered there, his contact info is available. From what I can see, he seems to be an impressive young man.
Or US Congress can ask State Department for a copy of that note.
Nine months ago Hilary Clinton was Secretary of State. One wonders what she did with this information. Boy won’t she have fun on the campaign trail dodging this.
r. whitman
The Gavlak article says that a dozen rebels were killed in the tunnel. pl
Kerry just announced that sarin was definitely used in Syria. Too late, John. The UN’s Carla del Ponti reached the same conclusion back in March.
“According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas,” del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday.
“We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas,” she added.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html
TTG,
I think euphoria made me mix up facetiousness with an attempt at making a serious point.
One of my central objections to contemporary American foreign policy is precisely that attempting, or at least dreaming about, ‘regime change’ seems to be a kind of default option for dealing with regimes which for one reason or another the powers that be don’t like. I would not seriously advocate seeking ‘regime change, revolution or any other unpredictable craziness’ in SA, any more than I would in relation to more familiar targets.
I do very much think with the Saudis, as with Israel, that it is absolutely unacceptable for the tail to be wagging the dog. What the proper relationship of the U.S. to both countries is I do not claim to know – but an informed public debate is long overdue.
Alba Etie,
In one sense it was surprising — and certainly I had not anticipated it. However, what one saw in the comments on reports in the MSM, across the political spectrum, was not simply opposition to this particular attack, but revulsion against the way American and British elites have conducted themselves over the past decade. So it was perhaps not so surprising that both the Labour Party and a sufficient number of Tories ‘broke ranks’. The e-mail inboxes of MPs were clearly filled with the same kind of comments as were made on the newspaper reports.
Today in Cairo:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/01/saudia-arabia-syria_n_3853310.html?utm_hp_ref=canada&ir=Canada
“The Arab League meeting highlighted divisions between Saudi Arabia and Egypt over how to approach the Syrian crisis. Egypt said it was opposed to foreign military intervention in Syria.”
a Wiki discussing the catastrophe. At least some of videos are staged by ghouls:
http://acloserlookonsyria.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Talk:Alleged_Chemical_Attack,_August_21,_2013 jump to:
“Planted by the known massacre managers?
“This is disgusting. I hadn’t seen the video until now, and I watched it to see how it fits with one I was going to post. Hell, those are the same [dead] kids, filmed [staged in a different location] by a different team! I was over at Urs checking what she has to say about the Douma-Harasta gang” [of roomful-of-hostage killers, who then had a supply of bodies to work with for various filming…]
Where did bandar (Saudi intel) obtain the sarin from that the Saudis gave to the Syrian rebels?
Makes one wonder what other ‘toys’ the Saudis are supplying , going to supply to the Syrian rebels? Blood agents perhaps?
My inquiring mind wants to know.
Didn’t Obama back the opposition in Egypt too? What could possibly go wrong:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2013/09/01/egypt-mohammed-morsi-trial.html
There are a few red flags in his report, but the biggest problem is that what’s described could not cause the reported 500-1500 deaths over a wide area. Sarin is ideally released well above ground to ensure vaporization and dispersal of the agent over a wide area. Sarin stored in a tunnel hit by artillery or detonated accidentally through mishandling could not spread over such a wide area – On the contrary, effects would be quite localized.
Repeating old behavior expecting different results ..