Open Thread – 13 November 2016

Posted on November 13, 2016 by Pat Lang

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My regiment before I went to SF.  I like the shirt.  pl

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68 Responses to Open Thread – 13 November 2016

  2. Aka says:
    November 13, 2016 at 11:27 am

    all,
    About the election, Clinton campaign seems to be blaming everyone but themselves. Special attention is given to the FBI director James Comey.
    And James Comey has one interesting past getting involved with many controversial and tough decisions throughout his carrier.
    Interestingly, this is not the first time Comey investigated a Clinton (Marc Rich investigation and pardon investigation) and made critical statement about it.
    And when you consider his “fights” with Bush administration over wiretaps, firing of US attorneys, etc. , this guy is has been atypical of the DC’s appointed bureaucrats.

  3. Will2.718 says:
    November 13, 2016 at 11:34 am

    wikipedia translates the Latin motto as “touch me not.” But shouldn’t it be same as the Gadsden flag: “Don’t tread on me.” Also the motto of the 3rd regiment, i see. The wiki article says the better translation of its meaning b/n the encounter of Jesus and Mary Magdelene is “Don’t Cling to me.”

  4. HawkOfMay says:
    November 13, 2016 at 12:06 pm

    The ‘all clear’ statement by Comey on the Sunday before the election did not help the Clinton campaign. The news continued to be about Clinton and her e-mails rather than anything else. Instead of attacking Trump; the news was Clinton (to paraphrase) saying ‘See, nothing new in these Weiner e-mails’. The last association you would want in voters minds the day before the election is Weiner and Clinton e-mails. Trump has demonstrated that the ability to dominate air time is an important campaign consideration.
    To be clear, I believe Clinton has the majority of the blame for losing the election. If she had listened to (Lanny Davis? Amazon Link: Crisis Tales) to get every possible e-mail out to the public as soon as possible instead of stonewalling; the election may have turned out differently.

  5. steve says:
    November 13, 2016 at 1:08 pm

    Comey sounds like a straight-shooter. His going public 10 days before the election was the right thing to do. Clinton put herself in that position, not Comey. That said, I assume he will be out when Trump takes office.

  6. turcopolier says:
    November 13, 2016 at 1:12 pm

    will2.718
    I suppose the regiment’s most signal achievement was the seizure of the City of Metz in August, 1944. pl

  7. Jack says:
    November 13, 2016 at 1:25 pm

    Hilarious watching and reading pundits who got election completely wrong now knowing with authority what Trump and the Republican majority in Congress will do.

  8. Degringolade says:
    November 13, 2016 at 1:31 pm

    My leg unit….my last six months in the army. Truth be told, it is the one I miss the most.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41st_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

  9. ex-PFC Chuck says:
    November 13, 2016 at 1:50 pm

    Martin Armstrong found some provocative things while searching through Wikileaks DNC emails:
    https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/2016-u-s-presidential-election/the-real-clinton-conspiracy-that-backfired-the-worst-candiate-in-american-history/
    And for the amusement or perhaps infuriation of Hilary supporters here’s Jonathan Pye’s assessment in a six minute video from across the pond of why she lost:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs

  10. BraveNewWorld says:
    November 13, 2016 at 2:59 pm

    Looks like the great Russian shock and awe kicks off at midnight in East Aleppo. Not just the naval forces but long range bombers out of Russia are to be deployed.
    Also of interest is reports of an A-10 and F-15 doing recce in Idlib. That certainly has the feel of the Pentagon following their new orders.
    Interesting times in the near future.

  11. Haralambos says:
    November 13, 2016 at 2:59 pm

    With all due respect, I think this is the Latin verb form: tangō, tangĕre, tetīgī, tactum. Several meanings are often given. My Latin-English dictionary from 50 years ago gives these translations among others; these seem to fit for me: touch, handle, meddle with. I would add in more colloquial English, mess with and f**k with, the final two in a military context fit but do not convey the dignity of the use of classical Latin.
    The Latin tangō (handle) is the obvious source of the dance name in modern languages.

  12. English Outsider says:
    November 13, 2016 at 3:02 pm

    All we civilians had more or less a service component in our background, up until around the time of the Falklands. I can think of no older relatives who hadn’t put some time in during the major wars, and there were still plenty of people around who’d done National Service.
    That started to change in the 80’s, as also did the attitude towards the Forces. Perhaps the Falklands marked the turning point in both respects. It was the last time the nation watched heart in mouth as the troops set off, knew what they were about and approved of it, and welcomed them back as heroes. Little spin needed to sell it to us, a minimum of PR, and although the politicians might have screwed up beforehand – when do they not? – the cause itself was plainly just. Even the BBC eventually gave it their grudging approval, and that was in the days before it lost its independence.
    Perhaps not quite the whole nation. It was around that time, or so it was in my experience, that the very notion of having a country, and therefore having armed forces to defend it, became suspect. More so as time went on. Today the default position for any fully paid-up progressive is open borders or none, and if there are no borders what need to defend them? The armed forces can remain as a useful workforce for emergencies, or for deployment whenever some errant country is marked down for some accelerated Freedom and Democracy.
    And if anything were to get really serious, there are always the Americans.
    The more realistic of our political classes, especially those who can’t afford the luxury of surrendering entirely to the progressive dream because they’ve got a country to run, do take defence seriously. Very seriously indeed, because it’s the devil of a job finding where to make the cuts. The less well-instructed of their subjects – aren’t some of them called deplorables or suchlike now in the States? – look on anxiously and wonder what happened to full spectrum defence; and wonder too if an alliance that includes among its stalwarts Eastern Europeans who have more Russophobia than punch, French who need their army to keep the natives in order further South, and Germans who are reputed to drill with broomsticks, is quite the bulwark it’s made out to be.
    But they don’t have to worry either because if anything were to go wrong, there are always the Americans.
    Just so long as someone’s told Mr Trump.

  13. Jack says:
    November 13, 2016 at 3:44 pm

    The Democrats need to reflect on why their supposed sure thing gender identity candidate significantly under-performed Obama. She got millions of votes less than what Obama received.

  14. Laguerre says:
    November 13, 2016 at 4:07 pm

    The Latin genuinely means “don’t touch me”, but I think it should be ‘Nole’.

  15. Laguerre says:
    November 13, 2016 at 4:33 pm

    We have yet to see what Trump will do in Syria. One report though talks about collapse of morale of al-Qa’ida after his election. I don’t believe it, but the perception may play a role in the resistance.

  16. Sam Peralta says:
    November 13, 2016 at 5:16 pm

    He will only take office on January 20th.

  17. BraveNewWorld says:
    November 13, 2016 at 5:29 pm

    The big question right now is what signals are they getting from Qatar, KSA and Turkey. If it is business as usual then this then this still has a long road ahead. If on the other hand the US has sent the word to knock it off then that combined with the actions over the next week could see things accelerate quite quickly. It will be even quicker if the US, UK and France have stopped providing intel to AQ and friends.

  18. Earthrise says:
    November 13, 2016 at 5:47 pm

    “There has been an awakening, have you felt it?” TFA
    I can’t believe how much my worldview has shifted over the last year. Hailing from the far Left, I have felt the pull of History in a new direction. I have become a critic of the social engineering that has been carried out since the 60’s; it has gone too far. Because of this over-reach, I have had to shift to defending the foundations of our society; community and family. On the hand, I will always be proud to have stood against the Empire and the ruling class Capitalists. The Right was very happy to stay quiet while the Financial-Military Empire raped the world, and we always told you these chickens would come home to roost. But now that they have, it is time to call a truce.
    I propose that we call a halt to the Culture Wars; this is the area where the Left is winning. I think we need to pause to assess the damage of this 50-year project anyway; the baby has almost been washed out of the bath. Then the patriotic Left (the anti-imperial/capitalist faction) and the Right can join against our common enemy. The division over social issues has been exploited by our enemy to prevent us joining on the political front. This must end, time for all People to come together against the evil which rules our world.
    The momentum is with the Right, so I am coming over to join my brothers and sisters to fight our common enemy. I am worried about playing with Nationalism, it has a very bloody history, and will put a lot of pressure on our minorities. They will try and turn our nationalism outwards, towards a fake external enemy. The enemy is inside the gates. If we all stand together and maintain our focus, there is nothing they can do.
    I am going to keep asking everybody to stop falling into the Left-Right trap. The patriotic-national Left and Right need to join, and anyone pushing social change during this war needs to see they are aiding the enemy. Once we are free, we can address the remaining social issues. A truce then, and all patriots rally to the banner.

  19. aleksandar says:
    November 13, 2016 at 6:06 pm

    If you add up this election
    + the failed offensive to break the East Aleppo siege
    + East and West Goutha pocket collapse
    + the magnificent resistance of Deir e Zor
    + the lost of Yarmouk CAmp
    + the destruction of supply line by Rusaf and Syraf
    Well, you have the complete picture.
    I would have a low morale if I was a jihadist !

  20. Will2.718 says:
    November 13, 2016 at 6:38 pm

    Always felt cheated from a classical languages education. Had one day of Latin in the eight grade, and then they cancelled the class. Took one semester of Latin I, freshman year in college. All I remember from it is the correct classical (not church) Latin pronunciation of ‘Julius Caesar’ and the term ‘Persicos’ which I throw around in here periodically to impress probably nobody b/ myself. Wanted to take new testament greek and akkadian b/ got talked out of it. I was premed and had a full plate.
    Anyway, envy those that know their Latin and Greek. Trying to learn Spanish now w/ the iPhone app duolingo.

  21. Will2.718 says:
    November 13, 2016 at 6:41 pm

    Ahh, b/ is it Маскировка and the real target is something else?

  22. Chris Chuba says:
    November 13, 2016 at 7:10 pm

    Is there a Purple Revolution in the U.S.?
    (Paul Craig Roberts noticed Hillary’s choice of color in her concession speech)
    In Eastern Europe, western money poured in, frequently post election, changing govts in Yugoslovia, Georgia, Ukraine, …
    There seems to be a similar pattern here…
    http://journal-neo.org/2016/11/12/is-obama-staging-a-color-revolution-in-the-us-2/
    The article proposes that the protesters will demand that the Electoral College certify the vote based on the popular and not the state by state winner take all result.
    Is this crazy? Yes. Is it impossible? no. The protesters would have to get some legitimacy from the MSM, like the NYT trotting out legal scholars and law professors arguing that this would be Constitutional.
    1. Technically the Electoral College is free to vote for whomever they deem appropriate. Arguing that they choose the popular winner is wrong because the turnout would have been different if this was a direct vote. Undoubtedly, there were people in California who didn’t bother to vote because it was futile.
    2. There is definitely an organized element to these protests. Yes, there are the Snowflakes but there are craigslist listings for rent-a-protester. There was also that unfortunate and bizarre shooting of a protester in Portland reminiscent of Maidan.
    3. The demands of the protesters are remarkably consistent, ‘Trump is not my President, we want Hillary!’. Contrary to what the MSM is saying, the protesters do have a goal.
    4. Is the popular vote result being rigged? I find it suspicious that Hillary’s popular vote margin is increasing as more votes are being tallied. These are not being watched carefully because no one is disputing Trump’s electoral win but this could be used as a basis for the Purple Revolution.
    The lack of familiarity of color revolutions within the U.S. is making most here oblivious to this scenario, just like the politicians in Eastern Europe were but maybe, just maybe, we will find out just how quickly a color revolution can sneak up on a slumbering public.
    The final question, would Hillary accept the Presidency under such circumstances? [after me laughing for 15 minutes] as they say, in a New York minute, yes. I think that there would be some irony if we experienced what the Russians and other countries have been subjected to from our NGO’s. I strongly doubt this will actually happen because our institutions have been in place for over 200yrs but I cannot but help see the similarities and the irony if even some of this happened. I have also noticed how some MSM hosts resent the sponsoring of these protests. Why do these same MSM hosts think favorably about Soros and others ‘spreading democracy’ in Eastern Europe? Think of how fragile those places are since they do not have the same institutional strength that we have.

  23. Babak Makkinejad says:
    November 13, 2016 at 7:22 pm

    You wrote:
    “…that the very notion of having a country, and therefore having armed forces to defend it, became suspect…”
    Surely this sentiment would be confined largely to the more posh people in the London area, yes?

  24. Mishkilji says:
    November 13, 2016 at 7:29 pm

    Who, exactly, is the enemy?

  25. SAC Brat says:
    November 13, 2016 at 7:33 pm

    Thanks for calling it out. At this point we have many media folk’s baseball cards. Not looking so good.
    “Build a thousand bridges… get in the bag for one election for Clinton…”

  26. jonst says:
    November 13, 2016 at 8:32 pm

    I think Trump and family just hit it out of the ball park on 60 Minutes

  27. robt willmann says:
    November 13, 2016 at 9:21 pm

    ex-PFC Chuck,
    Yes, the e-mail and the memo attached to it are some corroboration for the early theory that Trump was given lots of free media time to boost him, the idea being that if he got the Republican nomination, he would be easier to beat. Early in the primary campaign, Rand Paul said that if he would get as much free TV time as Trump did, he would be doing better in the race. That e-mail is from 23 April 2015, and it is here, along with the attached memo. You click on the ‘attachments’ button to get to the memo that was in Armstrong’s article–
    https://mobile.twitter.com/wikileaks/status/796222841612042240
    I assume that the “pied piper candidates” — Ted Cruz, Trump, and Ben Carson — could attract more “extreme” supporters, and influence the other candidates to move in their direction on issues as well. The memo urges the Democratic National Committee to tell the press to take the three pied piper candidates seriously.
    Trump has named Reince Priebus, the Chairman of the Republican National Committee, to be White House chief of staff, and Steve Bannon to be “chief strategist and senior counselor”. They will work as equal partners. Priebus is a buddy of House Speaker Paul Ryan.
    Some people on Trumps transition team are–
    http://www.columbiabasinherald.com/article/20161112/AP/311129906
    And some on the transition executive committee are–
    http://www.targetliberty.com/2016/11/the-full-trump-transition-executive-team.html

  28. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 13, 2016 at 10:13 pm

    There are a few interesting tidbits that came up while talking to my acquaintances about polling. Several of them remembered that, in 2012, the polls were in fact wrong–they predicted too few votes for Obama. 2012 should have been closer–especially in the Midwest–than it turned out, if the polls were right. All the questionable stuff went by the wayside because the side that was predicted to win won, even though the numbers were off. This time, the prediction was off by about the same margin, but in the opposite direction. Of course, what mattered this time around was not just that the overall polls were off, but where the polls were off–the Midwest, where, according to news stories, many counties that went for Obama, full of white working class voters, swung heavily to Trump.
    What this is saying is twofold: the polls were as crappy back in 2012 as they are in 2016–just that we were systematically blind to them for superficial reasons; and the polls missed the same voters, who, unknown to the self-important folks, were decisive in shaping the election back then as they were again.
    I think this is a game changer, if not the game changer. All the memes about the white working class becoming obsolete electorally are out the window, at least for a few more decades. Unless something gets messed up along the way, they might even become cultural “white working class,” a new political force whose ranks may not be uniformly “white” but will include minority folks who don’t care for enforced multiculturalism and prefer American tribalism. There are interesting signs this election: the minority voters did not care for enforced multiculturalism and many stayed home. If Trump keeps his promise to the American working class regardless of race, he will have credibility with blacks, Puerto-Ricans and others who don’t care for free immigration. It will take time, but this is a potentially huge positive development–if Trump doesn’t screw up.

  29. The Twisted Genius says:
    November 13, 2016 at 11:46 pm

    I think Dave Chappelle hit it out of the park with his monologue on SNL. He even wished Trump luck. It was good to see him after all these years.

  30. Earthrise says:
    November 14, 2016 at 12:28 am

    That is a personal choice Mishkiji,
    For me, any force that attempts to gain at the expense of others is evil; to me this is the very definition of the word. Otherwise we might as well go back to the Law of the Jungle. It is intrinsic in the Social Contract that coming together in society is a net-gain for the individual. Otherwise, why bother?
    But there is so much evil in our world, where to start? As an adult, I have long ago given up on black-and-white explanations. We each have to choose for ourselves which is the greatest evil, the evil that begat all others. The explanation that best fits reality as I see it is Marx’s exposition of the ruling class in the Communist Manifesto. Put your McCarthy blinders aside for a moment and read it. It has served me for decades and continues to be instructive of what is happening in the shadows of the corridors of power.
    My personal mantra is “Power is the Problem”. I have worked for years under the proviso that power corrupts and cannot be used for good. I have had to expand this a little over time; Power also attracts the Corruptible. The “enemy” if I were to drill it down to the individual level are the sociopaths and psychopaths who are preying on humanity. These pretend humans can play the dirty political game harder than us Children of Light, so they often rise to the top. They are motivated to use this power for their own personal gain, and to hide their crimes (indeed their very existence as a foreign body inside our Human community). The solution is for each of us to stop transferring our political power to a ‘representative’ or a leader, and start ruling our own lives.

  31. shaun says:
    November 14, 2016 at 1:42 am

    My wife didn’t think so when he said he’ll repeal Roe V. Wade, but keep drinking that kool aid.

  32. shaun says:
    November 14, 2016 at 1:49 am

    I hate Trump somewhat so far, so If I could get paid I’d waste my time protesting! I want $15 an hour to just stand somewhere. I blame those protestors or some of them for the loss. Not that it would accomplish something to protest, but I could go buy Lobster afterwards. Whom do I call! These protests are idiotic, once he is in office and makes a move the millions will come out, for now its kind of silly he won didn’t he? The nomination of Giuliani will cause gigantic massive demonstrations Hold until then. Maybe I can make t-shirts and sell them at the protests. We know he loves tactical nukes so I’d think this site might be wary of that, but mainly people on this site are just thrilled he won, and that is scary.

  33. TonyL says:
    November 14, 2016 at 3:43 am

    I guess you just saw what you wanted to see. I saw it differently. It’s not bad, but a ground ball.

  34. b says:
    November 14, 2016 at 4:36 am

    There is no U.S. embassy in Washington DC. No U.S. embassy, no color revolution.

  35. English Outsider says:
    November 14, 2016 at 5:50 am

    Can’t report on that. My time in London was decades ago and at that time a fair few of the inhabitants seemed to spend their leisure hours stretched out on the floor smoking pot and saying “Peace, man.” Politics was discussed but the general view was that all you needed was Love. An admirable sentiment but short, I felt, on detail.
    Coming from a time and place where 80 acres was a spread and you didn’t hang about if you were set to mucking out the parlour I came late to the progressive dream; but there’s been plenty of opportunity to study it since. Plenty. I can confirm that for the fully enlightened, Londoner or not, the notion of “having a country” is deeply suspect. Since the States set the ideological tone for us I assume that’s the case there too. I noticed that in the recent election “You either have a country or you don’t” wasn’t, as far as I could tell, a message that appealed to the average American progressive.

  36. turcopolier says:
    November 14, 2016 at 8:28 am

    shaun
    What he said (to Stahl) was that he would appoint pro-life judges and that he thought the jurisdiction on abortion would then return to the states. That is not the same as your statement. Also, I doubt that “millions” will riot against Giuliani’s appointment. How many millions are in the streets now? I voted for Johnson but would have preferred Weld. IMO Trump has no loyalty to the Republican Party and his agenda clashes with the Republican aparatchiks. What, exactly do you object to about him? pl

  37. Allen Thomson says:
    November 14, 2016 at 8:31 am

    > If Trump keeps his promise to the American working class…
    Aye, there’s the core question, because keeping the promise may not be just a matter of restoring a 1950s status quo ante. In addition to jobs being lost to off-shoring, the jobs themselves are becoming fewer as automation greatly increases productivity. And the trends that have been against the AWC have been in favor of the interests of significant numbers of GOP Congressional donors.
    Maybe Trump has a way in mind of coping with the situation — it will be interesting to see what he does.

  38. turcopolier says:
    November 14, 2016 at 8:36 am

    shaun
    I deleted your Skowhegan comment because of the arrogant, sneering, condescending tone. Do you really think the people on this board don’t talk to or know anyone but military people? People with attitudes like you have created the Multi Culti mentality of the Democratic Party that was just roundly defeated and that has been steadily losing power at the state level for a long time. pl

  39. robt willmann says:
    November 14, 2016 at 8:59 am

    I put the wrong link above to the DNC e-mail and memo from 2015; this should be the one–
    https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/1120

  40. Mishkilji says:
    November 14, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Or, as the old joke goes, no US Embassy, no coup.

  41. LeaNder says:
    November 14, 2016 at 9:14 am

    Always felt cheated
    wrong approach.

  42. Peter Reichard says:
    November 14, 2016 at 9:25 am

    It used to be Republicans represented business and Democrats labor until the latter got run over by Reagan and in response their leadership transmuted into “Rockefeller” Republicans, liberal on social issues but pro business. They sold out the economic interests of the working class and tried to win most of them back by an identity politics that supported women’s issues and civil rights for ethnic minorities and gays embracing a multiculturalism that celebrated the diversity of all but Redneck-Americans the one group for whom it was not politically incorrect to stereotype and demean. Tone deaf to the wail of the White underclass in the Great Recession the limousine liberals gave us the one candidate who could actually lose to a novice like Trump thinking that gay rights and gun control were more important to the public than where the money for the next rent check was going to come from. The master marketer Trump with his pitch perfect ear to the ground successfully sold himself to that one half of the electorate which is the White working class, women as well as men. If the Democrats think they lost this election to misogyny and racism, don’t overthrow their leadership and return to their New Deal roots they will remain a minority party for a long time to come.

  43. Ulenspiegel says:
    November 14, 2016 at 9:50 am

    Laguerre,
    the imparative singular of nolle is noli, therefore, the regimental motto is correct IMHO.
    And there is still (as ultima ratio stulti) the “Noli turbare circulos meos!” of Archimedes, this will breach each defense. 🙂

  44. mistah charley, ph.d. says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:05 am

    An article on the white working class – WWC, an acronym that may catch on – published by Harvard Business Review seems very convincing to me about how they could support Trump. How they will feel and what they will do if Trump can’t deliver on major parts of his promises is the big question of the next few years. Maybe Trump and his team will be able to Make America Great Again, and my skepticism will prove to be unfounded. Time will tell.
    https://hbr.org/2016/11/what-so-many-people-dont-get-about-the-u-s-working-class

  45. Cee says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:12 am

    All,
    A quote comes to mind and that is you don’t become an anti-semite if you dislike Jews you only become one when they dislike you. I think that applies here.
    I’ve looked up older articles on Dteve Bannon and none of them call him a white supremacist or nationalist – this is all recent and bullshit. Other opinions please.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/news/steve-bannon-and-the-alt-right-a-primer/

  46. kooshy says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:15 am

    There was no US embassy in 2009 in Tehran at the time of failed green revolution in Tehran.

  47. rjj says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:17 am

    Skowhegan?

  48. rjj says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:21 am

    Badmouthing Skowhegan might suggest – but it would not necessarily prove someone is a pillock.

  49. Jov says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:36 am

    kao_hsien_chih
    Since it seems to me that you have in-depth knowledge of history and politics in East Asia, I’d like to ask you for an opinion.
    I have recently read an article (not in English) about the ”Tiananmen Square Massacre”. The author writes that according to Wikileaks, which published in 2011 some kind of old confidential reports from the US Embassy in China, the soldiers didn’t shoot at the protesters and that there was no massacre of students on Tiananmen Square. The author later mentions Nicholas Kristof, Jay Mathews, James Miles…
    Can I have your opinion?

  50. rjj says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:47 am

    https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Latin/Lesson_1-Imperative
    Nolo by itself means “I do not want,” but in its imperative it means “do not…!”
    Nolle is irregular, and its imperative forms are noli and nolite.

  51. Fred says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:49 am

    Davos Democracy, or “The Oligarch’s Strike Back”. Look who has been co-opted by the aristocracy of money:
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/democrats-soros-trump-231313

  52. Fred says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:50 am

    shaun,
    The president can’t repeal supreme court decisions. The court won’t do so unless another case comes before it on the same issue.

  53. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:01 am

    Huge if. Depending on how that goes, Trump has the chance to be a great president of FDR proportions or a disaster of James Buchanan proportions. I think it is best to try and make sure the former happens rather than the latter, for sake of the country, though.

  54. Babak Makkinejad says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:05 am

    A very dangerous illusion…
    Such people, once their illusions are shattered, will be frightened and running to the first scoundrel that promises them physical or mental safety.
    Very deplorable…

  55. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:13 am

    I think that’s nuts, but I do think it is true that a lot of myths have grown around the massacre because of the secrecy. The official Chinese state refuses to acknowledge it, which means no verifiable and testable evidence is available to be examined. A lot of hearsay and semi-fictitious “evidence” proliferate in their place. PRC government has a lot of enemies who are invested in propagating them.
    All these are not different from any secretive regime that is unpopular, but with PRC, there’s another layer: PRC also has many friends abroad who want to counter the unsubstantiated tales about how awful it is by spreading even more unsubstantiated tales about how not so awful it is. Between the two of them, unless you have access to the proverbial secret archives (and US Embassy in China would not have access to the real secret archives–you’d need to be someone big in PRC gov’t to have something like that. I’ve seen such claims and I tend to think it’s one of these.), there’s no reliable information about what exactly happened. I have no access to confidential information, and I can only be sure that, if only based on the circumstances of the aftermath, that there were violent clashes and people were shot (on both sides–there were credible evidence of military/police vehicles being set on fire and some military/police personnel being burned to death, but I think it’s also fairly clear that many protesters were shot by the military as well). Beyond that, I don’t want to say much without a lot of disclaimers

  56. turcopolier says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:18 am

    rjj
    The 2nd, 3rd and 4th RA infantry regiments have this motto. Why? I know not. pl

  57. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:32 am

    Yup. Saw the same article, thought the same thing. The opportunities and risks both abound for the Trump administration, IF they mean to better the lives of the working class Americans, itself a big if.
    It’s a little bit like Obama’s challenge in 2008–to which he failed to live up to, just to remind everyone. Obama had a larger, seemingly more stable coalition, both in the electorate and Congress. Democrats were not overtly out to subvert his agenda the way the Republicans are with regards Trump’s agenda. Now, one difference is that while Obama got to the top by playing nice with the Democratic establishment while Trump got to the top by defying it. This could play out both ways: Trump has no obligation to the Republican establishment, unlike Obama–as per Tyler’s argument. But the GOP establishment has no compunction against playing interference with Trump’s initiatives because he is not one of them either. This actually places the Democrats, especially the Democratic populists, in an interesting position: Warren and Sanders are already extending olive branches to Trump, and one hopes that they really mean it and Trump takes up on the offer. Sanders “got” the working class sentiment as well as Trump did and there is much that they can get done if they can cooperate with sincerity and not get wrapped up in foolish partisan gamesmanship–which, since neither is “really” a Republican or a Democrat, they can hopefully avoid.

  58. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:40 am

    I don’t trust Warren, at least not too much. She’s a “Democrat,” unlike Sanders or Trump, vis-a-vis Republicans, for that matter. She’s too invested in her connections to the Democratic Party establishment to break free of them and it is not too shocking that she is looking at all sides. That she should represent Mass, with all its establishment bases, and owes very little to the working class electorally, does not inspire much confidence either. On the other hand, however, she does seem to recognize the way playing field has shifted nationally and how changing the tune will help her gain a national standing and that will constrain her devotion to the Davos crowd.

  59. kao_hsien_chih says:
    November 14, 2016 at 11:47 am

    I think that’s the right attitude to live life by. The world is too full of people who want to use power to change the world to their liking, whether they mean well or not, and have no compunction against stepping on the little people who stand in the way. They come from all ideological stripes, and all are just as awful as any other, regardless of their color coded labels, if you ask me.

  60. The Twisted Genius says:
    November 14, 2016 at 12:07 pm

    Cee,
    I’ve seen him described as a media provocateur. I think that’s accurate. He’s a rich businessman who has tapped into a lucrative market. He doesn’t give a damn about how offensive the worse elements of the alt right may be to many. There’s money in providing a media outlet to this viewpoint. He does seem to share their penchant for savaging others, including some who deserve savaging.

  61. shepherd says:
    November 14, 2016 at 2:39 pm

    I used to read Cicero without a dictionary, though 20 years ago. Unless I’ve really lost it, this means: Don’t touch me. Wikipedia has “don’t tread on me,” but this is a very common word.
    “Tangere” is largely consistent with the range of meaning that the word “touch” has in English. You’ll notice the past participle “tactum” in English words like “tactile.”
    My guess is that it somehow got inserted in Revolutionary times into the idea of “don’t tread on me.” Doesn’t mean that, but doesn’t matter.

  62. jld says:
    November 14, 2016 at 2:57 pm

    A reminiscence of Taoism?
    That would be fine, except, unfortunately, to oppose people of power you need your own power.

  63. Fred says:
    November 14, 2016 at 3:09 pm

    Kao,
    “establishment” seems to be the key. Along with Warren the other up and comers are Cory Booker and Keith Ellison. That establishment (left) triumvirate is the race-gender-religion triad. All that is needed is for one of them to come out of the closet.

  64. turcopolier says:
    November 14, 2016 at 3:22 pm

    shepherd
    I think the motto NMT was adopted around the time of the War of 1812, quite post Revolution. pl

  65. Earthrise says:
    November 14, 2016 at 8:04 pm

    Hello jld,
    This is what I said though. We each need our individual power back so we can decide what to do with it. By abdicating our power to others, we allow it to concentrate, forming a lesser Ring of Power. As more Lesser Rings form, a critical mass develops, a gravity well which pulls the Lesser Rings towards it; the Ring of Power itself. We all fought Hitler to prevent him from gaining the Ring of Power, only to have Isildur/America fail to destroy it. A dark invisible force is wearing the Ring, we have seen it’s shadows and ripples across the world for decades. The time has come for the Last Alliance of Men (the Right) and Elves (the Left) to form to destroy this evil forever.
    Power is the Problem.

  66. BraveNewWorld says:
    November 14, 2016 at 10:18 pm

    Well this is rich.
    “11 Arab countries accuse Iran of sponsoring Middle East terror
    Saudis, Egypt, Jordan among those slamming Tehran’s ‘expansionist regional policies, flagrant violations of sovereignty’”
    http://www.timesofisrael.com/11-arab-countries-accuse-iran-of-sponsoring-middle-east-terror/

  67. Ulenspiegel says:
    November 15, 2016 at 8:15 am

    rjj,
    where do you see the problem? 🙂
    Laguerre thought that the motto is wrong, I said it is not and you confirmed me, thanks. Yes, the negative form of the imparative is formed with noli/nolite, that was my point. 🙂
    In the 18th century Prussian army, the gun barrel of the regimental pieces had the motto “ULTIMA RATIO REGIS” in the sense of “the last reason/evidence of the king”. I – as the stupid (stultus)one -tried to use this in combination with Archimedes. OK? 🙂

  68. rjj says:
    November 15, 2016 at 9:03 am

    Left out quotation marks as well as trivia delimiters Just a link to more information on conjugation of the irregular verb in case anybody was interested. HOWEVER since you may see this post, and may be a German speaker, and this is an open thread, will change topic with a question:
    The machinations of the blackguard Schwartz aka [T]Soros (is he taking the piss by punning on tsuris??) tripped an associative link to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Parvus –
    Anybody know anything about Parvus? Has anybody read The Merchant of Revolution: The Life of Alexander Israel Helphand (Parvus), 1867-1924. Zeman, Z. A. B. and W. B. Scharlau
    Editions in English are pricey.

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