""If they were knowingly responsible, certainly," he said. "If it was a mistake, a mistake is a mistake.
"But if they were knowingly responsible, yeah, then there should be consequences.
"Was it a mistake that got out of control or was it done deliberately?
"That's a big difference between those two.
"In either event they should have let us go in.
"We asked to go in early. And they didn't want us in. I think they knew it was something bad and they were embarrassed."
Mr Trump said that China "said they're doing an investigation".
"So let's see what happens with their investigation. But we're doing investigations also," he said.
The Trump administration has said it doesn't rule out that coronavirus was spread – accidentally – from a laboratory researching bat"
The Telegraph
————
I am quite sure that the whole of the USIC (NSA, CIA, DIA, etc.) have been tasked to determine what the circumstances were of the advent of the present catastrophe.
The CCP is extremely worried about this investigative process.
It is easy for me to know this because the amount of really hostile stuff being thrown at me on the blog on this issue has risen exponentially as more and more attention has been focused in the government and even in the China leaning media on the possibilities of the origins of the virus and such things as the number of people who were allowed travel to the whole world but not legally allowed to travel within China. And then, there is the effort the CCP and Chinese government put into buying up PPE around the world in the period before China acknowledged the severity of the crisis.
Among the various nonsense written to me is the idea that I am a racist anti-Chinese bigot. Our Chinese family doctor finds that funny. And then, China was my first choice of area when I volunteered for area specialization around 1970. Unfortunately, I was put in the Arab World program because I have an unusually high aptitude for languages and Arabic is more difficult than Mandarin.
Somewhere out there is a Chinese who either has or will defect to US Intelligence with the information that is sought.
You don't see a lot of the personal attacks that I am receiving because I don't post them. I am not interested in providing a platform for Chinese agitprop. They should know that by now.
Col Lang, I thank you for continuing your forum and also for not posting the personal attacks against you which would only waste time if we were reading them.
I’m appalled at the obvious love some of our MSM commentators have for the CCP. Does their hatred for President Trump blind them, do they not know where they are? Don’t they think about their own futures when their world will be most certainly turned upside down? John Paul Jones, have they never heard of him?
Sir
The personal vitriol directed towards you is a sign that CCP cash and propaganda machinery are now fully engaged.
In the fullness of time we will know who are the propagandists, the fifth column on their payroll and of course the useful idiots.
How does Joe Biden come out of this scrutiny when Hunter is a recipient of over a billion dollars of CCP cash?
If one considers that it was a Bio Weapon then one needs to analyze some data to understand how the virus propagated or if it was seeded in more than one location. Looking at numbers in the USA and the world one finds varied numbers and an anomaly.
If you take a number of cases per million and a # of deaths per million of population you show the following CA 803-30, WA 1,618-86, LA 5,131-278, MA 5,575-250, CT 5,015-315, NJ 9,604-473, NY 12,601-933, FL 1,217-38, TX 679-17, VA 1,015-33 plus numerous other states that were impacted in a minor manner.
Someone needs to follow up on these numbers and provide an answer and I hope they do so in a reasonably prompt manner.
I am an proponent of occam’s razor, the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. In that regard I, I believe the statement that the most likely origin of the virus is the so called “wet market” in wu han; until someone can provide me evidence to the contrary.
BillWade:
Don’t confuse the pomposity and BS of the media with intelligence, much less any semblance of analytical skills.
It is my experience that when people cannot counter your discussion with valid points of their own they resort to personal attack and vitriol. That is when you know that they are essentially unarmed in the battle of intelligence.
I too am quite certain that the very considerable resources of the USIC have been tasked with getting to the bottom of who bears responsibility for this pandemic.
I am also certain that the Chinese government is exceptionally concerned about being put under such scrutiny.
After all, I can think of at least two times when that same USIC turned its full attention to a controversial topic (I’m thinking Saddam Hussein’s WMD and Donald Trump’s adventures with Russian prostitutes, of course), and in both cases the USIC managed to cover itself in ignominy by getting pretty much everything completely wrong.
But I’m sure this time will be different…
Colonel – The Chinese allowed US Embassy officials to inspect the lab a little while before the pandemic. It’s going to look bad for them if they don’t allow further inspection, especially since that previous inspection uncovered bio-security deficiencies.
In any case this “gain-of-function” research looks risky. Just needs one bent scientist or one Jihadist who can handle the technology. Is this a type of research that should now be banned worldwide?
Yeah Right
You should change your moniker to “wise ass.” You have an Israeli e-mail address. Do you work for their intelligence? If you do, you should be ashamed of yourself. The USIC has carried them for a very long time. I know. I was head of military intelligence liaison with them for seven long years. The two instances you mentioned were occasions in which the political level of government simply dictated to the IC what its opinion should be. Do you have a way to prevent that?
Col.Lang, thank you for your service. God bless you and may He continue to strengthen your voice. Your blog is a welcome place that offers the opportunity to learn, to think about, and to understand, on a deeper level, the forces influencing this world. Thank you for your service.
Well, I found China’s immediate response to the virus’s spread to Italy and France a little suspicious.
China had stocked up on PPE and immediately rushed to those countries as a sort of (false) act of contrition for the “accident.”
I hope you are watching your back as you uncover the truths about this disruption of almost the entire world, and especially the U.S.
Could it be that there is growing unrest among the “useful idiots” in China? We can only hope.
In the meantime, why should we worry here in the U.S.? Nancy Antoinette Pelosi has made it clear to the many out-of-work citizens (because of the virus) that all they need to do is eat chocolate ice cream.
No, I am not an Israeli. An Australian, in fact, and a critic of the little Apartheid state.
And I agree with you regarding the fiasco regarding Iraqi WMD, which was not “intelligence” so much as it was “stenography”.
With the Trump dossier I don’t necessarily agree that it was the political level of government who were doing the dictating. I am more inclined to point the finger elsewhere. But, again, definitely a case of made-to-order intelligence, not of incompetence.
Do I have a way of preventing made-to-order intel? No, obviously I do not. The USIC doesn’t either, otherwise people like Clapper would be in the slammer.
But if the politicians could dial up their desired intelligence with respect to Iraqi WMD then isn’t it also possible that they can dial up their own results w.r.t. what happened in Wuhan? Arses are on the line, and scapegoats have to be found.
Yeah, right.
I completely agree that a policy and politically dominated “truth” can be managed into existence in any country at any time. Sadly, it is not enough to fight the system from within because the politicos will just arrange to remove you if you do that. My only and somewhat desperate hope is that if we hold feet to the fire here we may marginally affect the outcome.
SHMBO is Taiwanese so I hear quite a bit from the Chinese view, or at least the view of those in the CCP paid to troll English and Chinese web sites. It drives her nuts because she is a Trump supporter and a (naturalized) Citizen. The propaganda war has been ongoing for a long time, decades at least. The CCP has known that the west couldn’t “outsource” their middle class forever and been breeding distrust among their citizens for the eventual fallout. That’s most likely what this is, China seeing a trade fallout that wasn’t going to go away soon and using this virus–probably after it was accidentally released– to get a leg up on the competition. It’s a smart (if evil) move designed to keep them in critical parts of supply chains for as long as possible. The Chinese elite are much smarter than ours, and able to look more than 6 months into the future. That’s what happens when your grandfather can tell you about the time the peasants executed most of the former elites and their families.
This line of T’s seems to be aligning with the recent article advocating the confiscation of China merchant shipping and the numerous lawsuits seeking money damages against China. Part of a coordinated operation? Repudiating the debt owed to China and confiscating Chinese assets via these lawsuits would appear to be a replay of the Warimber game used to confiscate NK assets a after a blatantly political show trial. Walking on the debt would play big into the election for T’s base, I suspect, but the larger implications of defaulting on debt via contrived political trials seems like a gigantically bad idea, long-term.
Honest question: Why would anyone trust the IC with any finding of any kind? Have they not proven themselves time and time and time again to be, paraphrasing P, cheaters, liars, and thieves?
j. casey
Good point. IMO it is time to re-invent the IC and FBI.
After reading the Straits Times article, if true, it seems like China dragged their feet for at least two weeks before coming clean to the WHO on 1 January. They then posed as the model International citizen, which fooled me.
During the delay and the period up to 14(?) January when it was allegedly discovered that efficient human to human transmission was occurring, the virus was spreading internationally by air travel.
They knew it was a SARS like Coronavirus, most certainly understood its likely contagious behaviour and they let it go for a month…..
walrus
Welcome back from the world of CCP agitprop. As this becomes clear to all the question will be of what sort of covert action will be approved in retaliation.
j. casey
You are right about the wisdom of a selective default vis-à-vis China, it would be a suicidal move. No matter how much it was cloaked in the language of political “consequences” the market would see it as a default and the status of US sovereign debt would change overnight, probably forever.
Given this administration’s liberal use of sanctions as the weapon of choice it would not surprise me if Trump receives advise to do just this. And being an erstwhile defaulter himself he may even be tempted. However, I’d hope the grown ups in the room (as well as his gut) would tell him that providers of reserve currencies cannot behave like this. Smoothie (Andrei Martyanov) had a post on his blog recently dealing with this possibility, FWIW.
The timeline in the public record contradicts the notion of a delay or coverup:
The weird pneumonia with the opaque ground glass imaging on the lung X-rays shows up on Dec 25-26.
Dec 31 the WHO is informed of possible infectious outbreak.
Jan 3 leader of China’s CDC confers with America’s head of CDC.
Jan 4-5 WHO makes public information of cluster of pneumonias in Wuhan
Jan 12 genetic sequence of the virus released
Jan 14 announce that human to human transmission might occur, but no evidence yet
Jan 21 announce that human to human transmission is now proven
By January 23 Congressional leaders have been briefed on possible pandemic and researchers at John Hopkins release paper describing a “fat-tailed” pandemic as imminent. So that is less than a month from the first real sign of a unique viral event to a full understanding that a long-anticipated pandemic is underway.
The best the Associated Press could do, in a much cited article which viewed the timeline critically, was suggest the week Jan 14-21 delayed an understanding of human to human transmission, but this is difference between something that “may be” happening versus something that is “proven”.
The timeline is not Chinese agitprop, it has multiple sourcing. No international scientist or health official involved has accused the Chinese of any delay or coverup. The accusations reside largely with political and media persons. Calling for retaliation without a clear or obvious reason for retaliation seems misguided,
jjc,
You must have missed the AP report on Dr. Li Wenliang, who was arrested and forced to recant his warning about the Wuhan virus.
https://apnews.com/9d86cace1a89aa33d6b33138ab4d9ba6
fred JJC is IMO a pro-communist troll
Col., I think you’ve had quite a few show up since the tariffs and even more with this virus attack on the West.
Fred, the article that you linked to did not say that he was arrested. Nor does it say that he was forced to recant.
The article says what it says, and what it says was that Dr. Li Wenliang was reprimanded by police for going outside the chain of command with his warnings of the danger that this virus was dangerous.
Well, OK, not particularly pleasant behavior, but the USA also reprimands officials who speak out of line, as Capt Brett Cozier found out to his cost. At least Dr Wenliang was allowed to stay at his post, Cozier not so much.
Colonel, before the inevitable retort, I am not a pro-communist troll. Far from it.
But I don’t like to see misrepresentations go un-commented on, and I firmly believe that Fred has misrepresented what that article said.
Yeah, Right
Crozier was a professional military officer who went outside the chain of command to pursue his dream of martyrdom. Was this doctor anything like that? Did I say you are a troll? I don’t remember that. I said you are a “wise ass,” which you are.
Fred
Yes.
Yeah Right,
You fastened on the word “reprimand” it does not necessarily have the same meaning in China. In Australia it may mean a slap on the wrist with a wet lettuce leaf.
In China I’m fairly sure it means being threatened with serious punishment up to including execution.
People who criticize the Chinese Government routinely disappear permanently. I would think that only the doctors international visibility saved him from that fate.
Colonel, it doesn’t matter what Cozier’s motive was in writing those letters. Not in the slightest. What mattered to the Powers That Be was that Cozier made public something that he was not authorized to make public.
Was that doctor anything like that? Yeah, I believe so.
According to JJC the Chinese authorities were in official agency-to-agency communication with the WHO and the CDC by December-January.
They then find that a doctor who is not authorized to speak on behalf of that agency is shooting his mouth off.
Sorry, but that would not be tolerated by any organization – governmental, corporate, or anything in between.
There is nothing sinister about reprimanding someone for shooting your mouth off when you aren’t authorized to do so, and definitely not when there are official discussions taking place between organizations.
I mean, honestly, how often have we all read a news article that contains something along the lines of “said a source who insisted on anonymity, as he was not authorized to speak on this topic”.
And, no, you did not say I was a troll. But you are handing that card out to a lot of people, so it can’t hurt for me to lay down my own marker.
A wise ass? Maybe. Yeah, OK, point taken. We actually agree more often than you might think.
Col. Lang,
Subject: Covert Action.
Detach the Chinese diaspora from the Mainland.
Offer them citizenship, education and money and the opportunity to start their own businesses.
I have yet to meet a Chinese who could pass up the offer of equity in a business.
Yeah Right
Crozier is a captain in the US Navy. Do you have any idea of the obligations that come with his rank? He is not an employee of the Navy. People do not die for their obligations to General Motors or any other crappy company.
“…the question will be of what sort of covert action will be approved in retaliation.”
Col. Lang
Would you care to speculate based on your deep knowledge and experience?
IMO, of course from my limited lens, a huge vulnerability for the CCP is financial. Their banking system is massive relative to the size of their economy and heavily over-extended and saddled with growing NPLs. Their large corporate sector is substantially short USD with massive USD debt relative to their cash flows.
If I had to provide any advise. It would be to curtail eurodollar lending to CCP linked corporations and to incentivize the relocation of supply chains away from China which will further reduce availability of USD. And of course to prevent Fed dollar swaps from leaking to the CCP. I would also add the prevention of any US funds (pension, PE, hedge funds) from investing in Chinese companies and not allowing their listing on US exchanges.
To all those that say the CCP will price all their goods in Yuan and sell their USD reserves and crash the Treasury market, my response is dream on.
I am not a pro-communist troll either, nor did I just show up here. I’ve been enjoying SST’s excellent coverage of the Russiagate fiasco for several years.
There are not opposing timelines here – there is an accepted public record of what occurred when, as reported internationally, and there’s no room within it for any concerted coverup or delay. The record shows that the response was timely, followed protocol, and played out much like previous events. The decade old movie “Contagion” portrays these pandemic protocols. There is tremendous amount of international cooperation on the medical/science/preparation fronts, and the Chinese have not come under criticism over this event from those circles.
Doctors and nurses have been fired from hospitals in NYC and Chicago for speaking to the media without proper authorization.
Yeah, Right, er “wise ass”,
I’m sorry to hear you haven’t heard any of the other tales about the now very dead Dr. Li Wenliang, yet another victim of communism. Read for yourself:
“Chinese Authorities Admit Improper Response To Coronavirus Whistleblower”
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/19/818295972/chinese-authorities-admit-improper-response-to-coronavirus-whistleblower
“China issues ‘solemn apology’ to doctor reprimanded for early coronavirus warnings”
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/public-global-health/488620-china-issues-solemn-apology-to-late-doctor-reprimanded
Thanks for the sophistry.
Colonel,
We here in Okieland lost a good soul to the CCP Virus. CMOH recipient Command Sgt. Maj. Bennie G. Adkins who was born in Waurika Oklahoma was 86 when he passed away at the East Alabama Medical Center ICU late last week.
CSM Adkins spent over 20 year of his tenure on this earth as a Green Beret. in the 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th, SF Groups with 3 tours in Nam. Then-Sgt 1st Class Adkins survived 38 hours of close-combat against North Vietnamese forces March 9-12, 1966 while serving as an Intelligence Sergeant with Detachment A-102, 5th Special Forces Group, 1st Special Forces at Camp “A Shau”, in the Republic of Vietnam.
https://www.army.mil/medalofhonor/adkins/
Walrus, I am well aware of how pathetic an official reprimand is in Australia (Sydney, actually). But I believe you are letting your prejudice colour your judgement.
Read the article that Fred linked to. This doctor was one of eight doctors in Wuhan who were told (however heavy-handed) to STFU by the police.
Note that he returned to work following his reprimand. Note also that his case was taken up by the Supreme Court, who criticized the police.
Neither of those fact supports your “thinking” that he was marked to be “disappeared”, only for him to be saved by the benevolent intervention of westerners. That is speculation, pure and simple, with more than a little hint of condescension.
Look, don’t get me wrong: I have no doubt that being told to STFU by the Wuhan Police is a much more frightening prospect that being told to STFU by anyone in Sydney or Melbourne.
But even if that was the case, that does not affect the point I am making, which is this: if the Chinese had already opened inter-agency talks with the WHO and the CDC then it was always going to be intolerable to them that there be a group of doctors who are blabbering on in public about things they are not authorized to blab about.
No organization – not the Chinese, not the government of Scotty-from-marketing, not the Trump Administration – would tolerate that.
It wouldn’t matter if what the CCP were telling the CDC was exactly the same as what those doctors were saying on social media.
It would make no difference, the authorities would be perfectly correct to tell them to STFU and leave this to the grown-ups.
Walrus,
“Offer them citizenship, education and money and the opportunity to start their own businesses. ”
Let me get this right. Trump is supposed to tell tens of millions of American citizens that have lost thier jobs or businesses because of Communist China’s actions that we are going to give citizens of communist China money “to start their own businesses” – to compete with the millions of Americans who’ve had their lives destroyed by communists in Beijing, and citizenship too? I decline to be economicly enslaved by taxes and affirmative action to help out ‘the downtrodden’ who did well enough under communism to become one of the Chinese diaspora elite. They can go live under the communisim their forefathers gave them, or they can get fight in China to get rid of it. The last thing on earth we need to do is follow your idea. Feel free to open Australia’s borders to China’s diaspora.
“Crozier is a captain in the US Navy.”
Yes. Still is, is my understanding.
“Do you have any idea of the obligations that come with his rank?”
Very little, to be sure, though I do understand the concept of a Chain of Command. Crozier went outside it, and was then told to STFU. Nothing sinister in that.
The point I make is that Wenliang also went outside his Chain of Command, and was then unceremoniously told to STFU. Again, I fail to see how there is anything sinister in that, however appalled I might be about the heavy-handed nature of his “reprimand”.
“He is not an employee of the Navy.”
That I did not know.
“People do not die for their obligations to General Motors or any other crappy company.”
I have not asked Crozier to fall on his sword.
I did not ask Wenliang to fall victim to Covid-19.
I said what I said, and what I said is this: if anyone in any organization talks about something they are not authorized to talk about then they should expect to be told to STFU, and especially-so if the people above him are already in official negotiations with others.
After all, it is the organ-grinder who is in charge, not the chattering monkey.
I think we should be reminded of a little fact about the China Commnunist goverment structure. The local government at Wuhan has a lot of autonomous authority, they don’t have to report to the central government what they do everyday. Until words get out that something they did might affect the reputation of the CCP. This is the reason there is a sytemic corruption in their governement.
In China communist system of government, you’d bet it is a given that problems/issues will be burried at the local government level. They would not want to show their incompetence in making it a national issue (it is extremely damaging to their career, or sometime fatal).
In my oppinion. There was apparently a cover up at local level. Up until Dr Li Wenliang blew the whistle on Dec 30, it was still in the local government hands whether to get the CCP involved.
Of course we don’t know if they already starting to elevate the issue before Dec 30. There are CCP informants at all local governments, so that would make it hard for them to hide something as important as this.
Corruption and incompetence could explain the delay.
Colonel….This whole Bloody Matter Stinks..like the Bodys being burned in the Chinese Crematoriums..Screams and All…To Clean up this Mess…Those who Attack you for your concerns and Suspicions…are TOO Ignorant and Lazy to Research Real Data..and Instead of Finding Deep Es Tut Mir Leids and Remorse.. for being responsible for Causing so much Pain and Suffering…The CCP apparently sees an Opportunity to gaing Strategic Insighs Political..Economic and Militray..from Letting the Hounds Loose on the World…Only Now…Its back to the Game Room…Big Stack of Platinum Chips…and Discuss Global Buying Opportunitys…Maybe even Possible without the front men…and corrupt Yankees to help set it up…Im Thinking Colonel..Since we are the same Age…Maybe you grew up seeing the same films I did of The CCP…Mao Purges..in the 1950s…Then..The CCP Tied your hands to a pole behind your back..brought you out of a HOOTCH..and shot you in the Head…Perhaps….They should be shown again..
interestingly enough most of the countries surrounding China have weathered the covid 19 quite well. Vietnam has had no deaths.The warnings went out early because they had the intelligence,or were warned by China.
The further you get from Asia the worse it gets.However the biggest winner will be the planet earth who is breathing a little easier.You could almost say that the bats and there viruses are the planets wmd’s.So forget the blame game because there is a bigger predator in town.
Oil is poison,plain and simple.
blue peacock
Excellent thinking. Let us see what others on this thread think would be effective elements of a covert action plan against the CCP.
yeah, right
Your actual or feigned ignorance of the military ethos is so profound that it just is not worth my while to try to explain it to you.
I’m sorry Fred, but I’m sticking to my guns on this because I happen to be right.
YOU claimed that this doctor was arrested.
YOU have now linked to three articles that all report that he was not arrested, he was reprimanded.
YOU claimed that he was forced to recant.
YOU have now linked to three articles that all show that was was not forced to recant, he was told to STFU.
My characterisation of those articles is quite correct. Yours…. not so much…
His treatment was heavy-handed, the Chinese admit that.
The police who handed out that treatment acted inappropriately, the Chinese admit that.
But he was not arrested. He was not told to recant.
Will you admit that, or will you continue to dig yourself into a hole?
Yeah Right,
The original article did not support my statement, gotcha! All other common knowledge at the time wrong! Gotha, yeah right wins again. China good!
No, I won’t admit “china did not arrest him”, but only to irritate a verbatimist like yourself.
“His treatment was heavy-handed, the Chinese admit that.” Yes, I admit China’s heavy handed treatment killed him. Thanks for letting us all know that “heavy handed” does not mean “arrested” in China. It’s a distinction without differnece, except to appologists for communist China.
Blue,
” would also add the prevention of any US funds (pension, PE, hedge funds) from investing in Chinese companies and not allowing their listing on US exchanges.”
Good ideas. Yves Smith has had a running commentary on the mismanagement of CAPERS and it’s current Chief Investment Officer, Ben Meng. He lost them a billion dollars by removing risk insurance at the time of highest risk. The mismanagement is defininetly worth a congressional investigation (Won’t happen under Pelosi). Trump should have multiple federal agencies looking into what is happening there that might be against the law.
We should also restrict all immigrant visas from Communist China and either revoke or refuse to renew any currently in place. These visa recipients are not the ‘poor downtrodden’ of communist China, they are the sons and daughters of the elite and upper middle classes. They are the backbone of the one party state, the beneficiaries of its largess and the source of its future leaders. The communist government does not let the disloyal go abroad to gain higher education and lucrative employment or business opportunties. Millions of Americans out of work; for any company to say they can’t find skilled work the proper response is “raise wages” until you do.
Seeing you arguing about the Chinese and Capt. Crozier, just recalled what heard over there.. from a Russian “doctor on conceptual intelligence”…
“The bottom line is explosive: the Trump administration as well as the CDC had an advance warning of no less than four months – from November to March – to be properly prepared for Covid-19 hitting the U.S. Moreover, the Israeli disclosure supports what’s nothing less than extraordinary: U.S. intel already knew about Sars-Cov-2 roughly one month before the first confirmed cases detected by doctors in a Wuhan hospital. Talk about divine intervention.”
Escobar
Yeah Right,
You think doctors and other professionals in Australia have a “chain of command?” like China and that’s OK? Going outside the chain of command by speaking their mind to the media? A police “reprimand “ in China is not a life threatening event? What planet are you from?
JJC,
I thought the same as you about the timeline until I did more research. Chinese companies were sequencing the virus mid December and were pretty sure it was like SARS. This knowledge was suppressed. Human to human transmission was only “discovered” officially about 14 January, a month after China already knew.
I had another bit of information last night – the Singaporeans also think China is lying.
Fred,
Not at the expense of American jobs. I am talking about a long term program to “turn” the best of them. We did that with the USSR I think. Being beastly to guests merely confirms to the Chinese people that we are uncultured savages.
Fred,
CALPERS hiring a “former” card-carrying member of the CCP is baffling. How many such infiltrators do we have at high level positions across our corporate, financial, academic, think-tank, government and military landscape?
It seems our Counter-Intelligence team led by Bill Priestap and Peter Strock were too busy chasing Russian phantoms in Trump’s underwear to focus on actual threats of CCP infiltrators all over the USA. What is Trump’s CI team doing? I’ll be very interested to learn.
Walrus – what are you referring to? You had mentioned a Straits Times article…?
For JJC
Straits Times article on Chinese duplicity
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/how-early-signs-of-the-coronavirus-were-spotted-spread-and-throttled-in-china
Well said Colonel, and thank God for your site! Keep up your good efforts.
It’s war! You can see that the Chinese have invested significant money and efforts in propping up the “Americans created the virus” and the “Patient zero was an American” memes in media. They have gone on the attack saying it as if it is proven fact that the virus originated in the US. The Chinese have surely been handing cash out readily – b’s site moonofa is one such which has sold out and is beating the pro-china/anti-US drum. A lot of MSM publications are also supporting China on this (advertisements, cash to editors, donations to institutions, research grants, etc). Last month the Nature magazine published something so ridiculous on the nature of the origin of the virus that it was unbelievable.
Keep up the good work and keep shining the light! God bless!!
The truth will out someday
walrus,
“Being beastly to guests…”
Being beastly to those who invite you into their country merely confirms to the American people that communist China is run by uncultured savages. The global China virus death count is now 176,000 and still growing. The elites and children of the elites are the ones who were invited into the US to attend our univiersities and work in our businesses. I invite them to go home and overhrow the savages running China and restore a cultured and just government to their country, just like they had before the communists took over.
anon,
“interestingly enough most of the countries surrounding China have weathered the covid 19 quite well. Vietnam has had no deaths.The warnings went out early because they had the intelligence,or were warned by China.”
Not because of advance knowledge. It is because they have a lot of experience with the SARS epidemic before.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/04/17/covid-19-vietnam-winning-new-war-against-invisible-enemy/
Quote:
“Having experienced the SARS1, avian flu and other recent epidemics, Vietnam acted early and pro-actively in response to the Covid-19 threat. When only 27 Covid-19 cases had been detected in Wuhan City in mid-December 2019, Vietnam’s MoH issued prevention guidelines, including close monitoring of border areas and other steps to prevent infection of its population.”
Quote:
“With officials acting quickly to trace and test contacts, as well as quarantine and treat the infected, Vietnam contained the first wave of infections in January. Following a second wave of 41 new cases, Vietnam imposed a national isolation order on March 31. The country has already conducted more than 121,000 tests, with more than 75,000 people in quarantine or isolation.”
walrus, hospitals in Australia can – and will, and have – reprimanded and/or dismissed medical staff for talking in public about things that they are not authorized to talk about.
“A police “reprimand “ in China is not a life threatening event?”
Yes, yes, yes, both Fred and you are convinced that Dr. Wenliang’s life was hanging by a thread when he was reprimanded because.. well.. because.. China, AmIRight???
But when you actually look at the evidence, rather than just rely on your gut instinct then a different picture emerges.
From the official court record: “Wuhan City Center Hospital, except for talking with Dr. Li Wenliang to understand the situation, did not give him any treatment, punishment, did not revoke his medical practice qualifications. The hospital did not deal with Dr. Li Wenliang on January 3, 2020 after the public security authorities issued a commandment. On December 9, 2019, Dr. Li Wenliang completed a six-month outpatient rotation to serve as an inpatient in the ophthalmology department, until he became ill on January 10, 2020, and he had been working as an ophthalmologist in the hospital, with no adjustment sits in the schedule and before he was interviewed.”
Fact, hey, how inconvenient, AmIRight?
He was shooting his mouth off.
The authorities pulled him in and told him to shut up.
He then shut up and went back to work.
Scary stuff, surely evidence of just how heinous the Yellow Peril is.
“What planet are you from?”
One that tries to be far more grounded in facts than yours, walrus.
“Yes, I admit China’s heavy handed treatment killed him.”
Fred, covd-19 killed him. You might want to try reading the articles that you link to.
thanks walrus for Straits Times article. have another look – the initial relatively unsophisticated sequencing identifying a SARS-like substance occurred December 27-30, consistent with the timeline. The WHO was informed on December 31. The novel coronavirus was not fully sequenced and identified until January 9-11. The sequence was published for all on January 12.
It took another week to confirm/prove human-to-human transmission. I am not aware of any medical or science experts who have suggested there was any evidence or suspicion of coverup or delay.
It was revealed by WHO yesterday that a 15 person team from the US-based CDC were specifically detailed to work on the virus with the WHO beginning January 1 – or one day after the initial input from China. As well, top US health and administration officials were receiving information in real-time from a further dozen US CDC persons regularly posted at WHO headquarters throughout January. This does not support a concept that US officials were somehow in the dark.
Colonel,
In addition to the IC getting to the bottom of the current particular regarding the CCP poisoning the whole world with their CCP Virus release. It is hoped IMHO that the IC will also delve into just how many Bio-Weapons (strains, origins, number of Bio-Weapons currently in development AND production by the CCP/PLA/MSS apparatus; the number of Chem-Weapons and types and their development/production; as well as the CCP/PLA/MSS Nuclear-Weapons development/production that is underway).
It is hoped that putting two heads together, as such information is vital to the survival of both nations, that Russia’s IC/MOD/MIZDRAV/VECTOR will work together with our IC/DoD/USAMRIID to keep the CCP NBC programs at bay.
The CCP NBC program is an immediate threat to both our U.S. and to the Russian Federation. And this CCP Virus has been an eye-opening event for the Russian Federation of just how dangerous and reckless the CCP/PLA/MSS are.
Yeah, Right,
Thanks again for the sophistry. Let me know what your sources tell you about the Covid19 treatment he recieved in that Chinese hospital he died in.
walrus: “Chinese companies were sequencing the virus mid December and were pretty sure it was like SARS.”
That statement is incorrect even according to the very article you use to support it.
“On Dec 24, the doctors took fluid samples from his lungs and sent them to Vision Medicals for testing”
December 24 is not “mid December”, walrus.
“On Dec 27, the lab worked had sequenced most of the virus’ genome and had confirmed it was a coronavirus similar to the Sars virus”
Again, the Chinese did not become “pretty sure” that this was a SARS-like virus until December 27, which on my planet is “late December”, not “mid December”.
Honestly, there are some people at this blog who merely skim through the available data, presumably because they are impatient to reach their pre-determined conclusions.
China knew…by November 2019..Packaged it December 2019..Invited everyone to the Peoples Party..January 2020..Sent then out to the World..RED Hot..Radiating..The CCP Experiment in CBW..and Look how Fast they could take Civilizations and Military Assets Down..FOO Fighters..Using an Outhouse Weapon..Amazing..and Now..? Business as Usual..Same Game…Next Level…
jjc: “It took another week to confirm/prove human-to-human transmission.”
This is the only thing that I find… odd… about the timeline.
A week to confirm human-to-human contagion seems like a long time to me.
Mind you, I also do not know what the protocol is to “prove” such transmission.
Everything else seems to me to be pretty much on the money: the ticking clock starts when the hospital sent a fluid sample to the test labs (December 24) and received the results (December 27).
The WHO was informed December 30, which is actually commendably fast because it appears that some samples sent to another testing lab was misdiagnosed as SARS i.e. the health authorities were receiving conflicting information.
From then on it appears that the Chinese followed the rule-book. As did the WHO. As did the Atlanta CDC.
Fred: “Let me know what your sources tell you about the Covid19 treatment he recieved in that Chinese hospital he died in”
Sure, always happy to help. But I have to point out that these are actually your sources because I’m going to start from this article that you provided earlier:
https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/03/19/818295972/chinese-authorities-admit-improper-response-to-coronavirus-whistleblower
Within it is a link to an article that describes the Chinese investigation of his reprimand:
https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_6588678
In Mandarin, of course, which I do not read.
But Google Translate is always your friend, and that translation shows up a link to the full, public, official report:
https://www.thepaper.cn/newsDetail_forward_6588449
Again, Google Translate is your friend, because it provides a full timeline of his illness.
I won’t reproduce it in full as that would be an abuse of the Colonel’s patience.
But in short:
“On January 6, 2020, Dr. Li Wenliang admitted an 82-year-old eye patient. The patient developed fever on January 7 and was subsequently diagnosed with new coronavirus.”
“On January 12, Dr. Li Wenliang was hospitalized in the Second District of Ophthalmology, Wuhan Central Hospital, and was diagnosed with acute conjunctivitis and lung infection in his right eye.” (not sure if the mistranslation is for “eye infection” or for “right lung”)
“Dr. Li Wenliang is arranged to live in a single room for isolation, to organize dedicated shift care, to monitor blood oxygen saturation, heart rate, blood pressure immediately, to give respiratory support and anti-viral, anti-infection, phlegm, stomach protection and other symptomatic support treatment, using hormone and gamma globulin.”
It goes on from there, but I will point out that Wenliang came under the care of, in turn:
a) the “team leader of the new coronary pneumonia in-hospital medical treatment team”
b) a “professor of the Department of Respiratory and Critical Care Medicine, Tongji Hospital”
c) the “head of the Wuhan New Coronary Pneumonia Treatment Expert Group”
All in vain, of course, and he was then transferred to another hospital and placed in an iron lung, but by February 7 he was pronounced dead.
It’s all there for you to read. Feel free to pass it on to any physicians that you know and ask them to comment on the treatment he received: I’d be genuinely curious to hear what they have to say.
But to a layman like myself it seems clear that the medical authorities in Wuhan tried everything within their power to save him.
This is quite interesting. I think the Colonel would have some opinion about the assertions in this Pepe Escobar article.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2020/04/21/what-did-us-intel-really-know-about-chinese-virus/
“… the ABC News report according to which intel collected in November 2019 by the National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), a subsidiary of the Pentagon’s Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA), was already warning about a new virulent contagion getting out of hand in Wuhan, based on “detailed analysis of intercepted communications and satellite imagery”.”
“The bottom line is explosive: the Trump administration as well as the CDC had an advance warning of no less than four months – from November to March – to be properly prepared for Covid-19 hitting the U.S. And they did nothing…”
“And then, validating the ABC News report, Israel steps in. Israeli intel confirms U.S. intel did in fact warn them in November about a potentially catastrophic pandemic in Wuhan (once again: how could they possibly know that on the second week of November, so early in the game?) And NATO allies were warned – in November – as well.”
“Moreover, the Israeli disclosure supports what’s nothing less than extraordinary: U.S. intel already knew about Sars-Cov-2 roughly one month before the first confirmed cases detected by doctors in a Wuhan hospital. Talk about divine intervention.”
TonyL, without knowing the ABC source then the Escobar article is nothing more than speculative and unsubstantiated drivel.
Yeah, Right
The link to the ABC News article is right in Escobar’s piece. More unnamed sources ‘leaking’ material damaging to Trump. The Pentagon has denied the existence of the report referenced, so I guess whether it is speculative & unsubstantiated drivel or not depends on who you believe.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/intelligence-report-warned-coronavirus-crisis-early-november-sources/story?id=70031273&fbclid=IwAR0vQIpnxT9oUW3gTd3OQnC3MVevCc6IGosHrhz807Q-F7w2Xae4aCs350o
The same Pepe Escobar who described the CCP’s response as “breathtaking”? Hmmmm. Mmm-ahhh-haha…
Jim S,
As the Colonel always said “Source and Information must be evaluated separately”, or something to that effect. Look at the information, which has been cited in Escobar article. Barbara has point out where the ABC source came from above.
I’m interest in the Colonel’s opinion about The Times of Israel source.
“so I guess whether it is speculative & unsubstantiated drivel or not depends on who you believe”
Who you believe is a concept that relies on knowing who is doing the talking.
The Pentagon has officially denied the original ABC report, while Esper was nonplussed when asked about it – it is clear he had no idea what the reporter as talking about.
But follow Escobar’s link to the ABC story and note how it very quickly goes from
“according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting”
to
“according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents”
to
“one of the sources said”.
Note also that this last source is the ONLY one who gets quoted.
The other three signaled the truth of the story by vigorously nodding their heads, apparently.
I think that ABC report really had only that single source while the other three “confirmations” wouldn’t pass even the most cursory of sniff-tests for credibility.
TonyL,
Please be assured my reaction has nothing to do with the quality of the intelligence or even of the article itself; indeed, it was a low-quality comment and I somewhat regret making it. I apologize if I gave offense.
Israel’s official position is certainly of interest.
Yeah Right, or should I call you “Somthing to Think About”,
NPR from a month ago is the best you can do from Sydney?
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/20/china-exonerates-doctor-reprimanded-for-warning-of-virus.html
“The party’s top disciplinary body said the police force in Wuhan had revoked its admonishment of Dr. Li Wenliang that had included a threat of arrest.
It also said a “solemn apology” had been issued to Li’s family and that two police officers, identified only by their surnames, had been issued “disciplinary punishments” for the original handling of the matter”
….
“Police in December had reprimanded eight doctors including Li for warning friends on social media about the emerging threat. China’s supreme court later criticized the police, but the ruling party continued to tighten its grip on information about the outbreak.
The party has faced similar accusations of bungling or thuggish behavior following previous disasters. They include the 2003 outbreak of Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome, a 2005 chemical spill that disrupted water supplies to millions of people in China’s northeast, sales of tainted milk that sickened thousands of children and the failure of private finance companies after the global economic crisis.
In each case, officials were accused of trying to conceal or delay information people said they needed to protect themselves.
The party often responds by allowing the public to vent temporarily, then uses its control of media and the internet to stifle criticism. Critics who persist can be jailed on vague charges of spreading rumors or making trouble.”
I’m sure NPR was not lied to by the Chinese government, who lied earlier but were definitely really, really not lying in March when speaking to NPR. CNBC, on the other hand, is less credible than the Communist government of China. Thanks comrade. China would never lie about treatment of the doctor they reprimanded then exonerated after death.
Jim S,
No offense taken.
If I may also point out the Pentagon denial regarding the ABC’s report.
“Colonel Shane Day, the NCMI director, denied last week that any such report existed. “As a matter of practice the National Center for Medical Intelligence does not comment publicly on specific intelligence matters,” he said. “However, in the interest of transparency during this current public health crisis, we can confirm that media reporting about the existence/release of a National Center for Medical Intelligence Coronavirus-related product/assessment in November of 2019 is not correct. No such NCMI product exists.””
It is a narrow denial (NCMI might not be the author of the report that reached the Pentagon and the White House) . Also the ABC’s sources might have changed some minor details to cover their tracks, or they have not actually seen the final report.
Fred, you have made numerous claims in this thread, IMO every one of them incorrect.
The three I particularly dispute are these:
1) “Dr. Li Wenliang, who was arrested”
2) “and forced to recant his warning about the Wuhan virus.”
3) “Yes, I admit China’s heavy handed treatment killed him.”
All are glib assertions made without even the slightest attempt to fact-check.
Here are the facts, easily attested to following the very links that you provided:
1) Dr. Li Wenliang was an ophthalmologist at Wuhan Central Hospital.
I want you to mull that first point, Fred. He was an EYE doctor with no direct knowledge of what was happening in the Respiratory ward, and he certainly was not a hospital administrator and therefore did not have the authority to speak out on social media on, well, anything to do with public health in Wuhan.
2) He posted his messages on social media on December 30, categorically stating that this was an outbreak of SARS.
Again, mull that point, Fred: WHAT HE POSTED WAS WRONG. The Wuhan medical authorities already knew that this was a novel coronavirus, not SARS.
3) On December 31 Wuhan authorities inform WHO of a novel coronavirus in Wuhan
Once more, mull the date, Fred. Li’s “warning” pre-empted nothing. The authorities who *were* tasked with discussing this *were* doing their jobs. There was nothing that needed to be “warned” against.
4) On January 3 the head of the CDC in Atlanta was discussing this outbreak with the head of the Chinese CDC
5) On January 3 Dr Li Wenliang was called in by Wuhan police and given an official reprimand.
Note those two dates, Fred: the police could not have been attempting to “hide” this outbreak on the very day that this outbreak was being discussed at an inter-governmental level.
6) The police documented that Li was not authorized to discuss hospital details and had incorrectly claimed an outbreak of SARS.
Note that the basis of that reprimand is true: he was not authorized to speak on behalf of his hospital, and HE HAD HIS FACTS WRONG.
7) Li signs the document, tucks it under his arm, walks out the police station and…. goes back to work.
That is an important point, Fred: the official report categorically states that the police reprimand was both the beginning and the end of his “punishment”. He retained his position in the hospital, his responsibilities were unaltered, he continued to see patients.
8) On January 6 he saw a patient with an eye complaint, that patient subsequently was diagnosed with Covid-19
9) On January 10 Li began displaying symptoms of Covid-19
10) On January 12 he was admitted to the Ophthalmology Ward, and from there was progressively moved to more intensive care
11) On February 6 Li died of Covid-19
Now those are ALL facts, Fred, fully documented and freely accessible to you.
This doctor made a mistake on December 30 by repeating scuttlebutt on social media. The scuttlebutt he took upon himself to repeat was not only wrong, but was already known by the authorities to be incorrect. Not only that, but he took it upon himself to blabb misleading rumours at the very time that the Chinese authorities were informing the WHO about the real state of affairs in Wuhan.
His social media posts were a mistake in judgement on his part, and when he was officially reprimanded by the police he took it on the chin, admitted that he had been an idiot, and then WENT BACK TO WORK.
Honestly, I can’t make it any easier for you than this.
It’s not “sophistry”. It’s “research”.
You should try it one day.
Yeah Right,
“6) The police documented that Li was not authorized to discuss hospital details and had incorrectly claimed an outbreak of SARS.”
I don’t have Chinese police authorization to discuss this matter either.
Thanks for the struggle session. Be sure to ask for OT pay.