Borgist media fights back on behalf of unisex public toilets!

Brown

"Eight of the other states on the lawsuit are led by Republican governors — Alabama, Arizona, Georgia, Maine, Oklahoma, Tennessee, Wisconsin, and Utah. The other two have Democratic governors — Louisiana and West Virginia.

They're asking a federal judge to invalidate a Department of Education notice to schools that they must honor a student's declared gender identity. And the states challenge a memo from the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission advising employers that denying employees access to a restroom corresponding to their gender identity amounts to illegal sex discrimination.

 

"Schools are facing the potential loss of school funding for simply following common-sense policies that protect their students," said Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton.

The lawsuit says that while civil rights laws governing schools and employers outlaw sex discrimination, the laws refer only "to one's biological sex, as male or female, and not the radical re-authoring of the term not being foisted upon Americans by the collective efforts" of the federal government."  NBCnews

—————

Just watched Pamela Brown (newsie pseudo blonde on CNN) argue with her guest, the Attorney General of Louisiana, Jeff Landry, over the transgender toilet crisis.  I thought news anchors were supposed to ask questions on a neutral basis to elicit information and the opinions of the guests.  This woman sneered at Landry in the obvious belief that believing that men should not use women's bathrooms was evidence of a troglodyte, non 21st Century regressive attitude.  Landry struggled with the absurdity of her position but managed to be polite.  She said  "well, your opinion needs to be heard."  I suppose there could have been  a less graceful statement on her part …  It used to be that there were only a few news anchors who acted like that.  Bill Hemmer, the neocon at Fox used to be at one of the others.  During the run up to 2003 I was on his show one morning and he said that no decision had been made to go to war in Iraq.  I said he was wrong, and that the decision had long been made in the Bush Administration.  He went nuts and said that he would not allow me to say such a thing.  Laughable.

This kind of thing is all over the Borgist corporate media now.   HC's and Obama's vision of a worldly utopia where the lions lie down with lambs is 150% supported against all comers.  pl   

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/states-move-surprisingly-quickly-suing-over-obama-transgender-policy-n580506

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120 Responses to Borgist media fights back on behalf of unisex public toilets!

  1. The Beaver says:

    Colonel,
    If I may ask: isn’t the Governor of Louisiana a Republican : Bobby Jindal
    NBC has made a mistake

  2. mbrenner says:

    One of the queer things about the mounting discussion of transgender related issues is that there appears to be no definition of the term – certainly not an agreed definition. Notions of what it means range from simple bisexuality to that extremely rare phenomenon of a few poor souls born with RUDIMENTARY sexual organs of both types.
    The bathroom issue is the most ridiculous of all – since the obvious answer is to match the clothes one is wearing to the sign on the door

  3. b says:

    I find this all a bit “american” and laughable: “a student’s declared gender identity”.
    Since when is a student ripe enough to declare a gender identity other than his/her biological one? And how often is s/he allowed to change that? Once an hour? At each restroom visit?
    As for toilets. There are usually those neat signs on toilet doors. One often depicts a person in a skirt with long hair and the other depicts a person in pants. Those who look/dress like the first sign use that room and those who look/dress like the other sign use that other room. The alternative is a physical control of the “junk” of each person before being allowed to enter any of those rooms.

  4. This whole bathroom issue is total bullshit. It’s a non-issue when the decision on which bathroom to use is handled discreetly by all involved. It becomes a temporary local issue in schools when it arises and the local community finds an answer. The North Carolina legislature should have kept it’s nose out of this local issue. The Obama administration should have done the same. The escalation of stupidity is astounding.

  5. turcopolier says:

    b
    Laughable? Yes? American? Maybe, if the Borg is really “America.” But, I remember German toilets with a ledge in them so that you could inspect your poop for healthiness before flushing. I also remember German middle aged mothers helping their incredibly gross looking daughters pick out ridiculous clothes to wear in their crazy adolescent years. pl

  6. jld says:

    C’mon there ARE genuine males (DNA tested) who could not possibly use anything but the ladies room:
    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MedicalMysteries/story?id=5465752&page=1
    🙂

  7. jld says:

    The escalation of stupidity is astounding

    Not at all, it’s meant to test the compliance of the sheeple.

  8. Tyler says:

    TTG,
    The NC govt. got involved because Charlotte passed a law forbidding private businesses from keeping mentally ill men in dresses from using female bathrooms.

  9. Tyler says:

    B,
    Because the prog revolution never ends. Tranny rights, and soon pedo rights are on the horizon. Its all about inventing more reasons the state has to have more power to interfere.

  10. HDL says:

    As Woody Allen once observed: the lion will lie down with the lamb but the lamb won’t get much sleep.

  11. Cortes says:

    Why have communal toilets at all? Toilet halls with individual rooms off would dispense with the whole “issue “. Maybe I’m missing something here?

  12. Tyler,
    Are you sure Charlotte wasn’t trying to keep private businesses from forcing all the Chas Bonos of the world into female bathrooms?

  13. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to turcopolier 26 May 2016 at 12:36 PM
    You should have gone north as an antidote and spent your time admiring the pretty girls in Denmark :-).

  14. J A Connor says:

    We are now at “opinion identity”? I think I’m an American-Indian? African-American? Isn’t this is getting to be a bit of a stretch. Certainly some degree of sensitivity is called for, but the privacy and RIGHTS of the majority should not be subservient to political correctness. Are we really running out of legitimate civil rights issues?

  15. turcopolier says:

    Dubhaltach
    Happily married since 1963. pl

  16. Lefty_Blaker says:

    This is an issue that hits very close to home for me due to having a family member on the transgender spectrum, which means that this person was born as a biological female but has always from the earliest age felt more comfortable presenting as a boy (clothes, activities etc). The NC law is stupid in that it makes it illegal for transgender people to use bathrooms that correspond to the way they look, making them use bathrooms based on the biology that they were born with. It is actually much less threatening for trans people to do as they have been for many years without issues because most people cannot tell they are not the gender of the bathroom that they are using.
    The problem about “safety” comes more typically when a trans person tries to use a bathroom of their biology and not the gender that they identify as…A transman who you would never know is not a biological man using the woman’s room because he is a biological woman. This is what actually scares/freaks out people. I have seen it first hand. It is a simple issue as stated already by other members here: use the bathroom that corresponds to the way you look and nobody is the wiser.
    The safety issue about woman and children is BS. There are no statistics backing this up whatsoever. The real statistic that you should keep in mind is that as of about 5 years ago, 40% of transgender teenagers successfully committed suicide. So many more tried and did not succeed. This is a tragic statistic that needs to be changed and there are those of us working to make this a reality. The younger generations are more comfortable with these issues on gender and sexuality. Statistics show this clearly. The world is constantly changing and you can either accept it or not.

  17. Lefty_Blaker says:

    I realize that I did not explain the 40% suicide rate among transgender teenagers. This rate occurs because so many teens identify as trans and they are not accepted by their families, friends, communities etc and they have no where to turn for help. Hence their dire decision. This is changing as it is becoming more acceptable to be trans and there does exist more help now for young people who suffer from such issues. And suffer indeed they do. This is not an simple decision of choice. Nothing makes their lives more difficult than the drive to be the gender that they were not born as.

  18. Tyler says:

    TTG,
    Up to this point everyone played by the polite fiction and let it be.
    The Progressives Enfants Terrible decided that instead of letting the status quo be, they had to continue The Revolution and rub everyone’s face in the fact that now a man can say “I’m a woman” and Neener Neener nothing you can do about it suck it rednecks.
    Seriously this is like a five second google search looking at the Charlotte government’s statements regarding the issue to know that what you’re describing isn’t the case.

  19. Tyler says:

    JA,
    Yes. We’ve run out for quite a while. The Revolution never ends, comrade.
    Until a multisexual, multiracial hispanic illegal alien genderfluid pedophile is on the Supreme Court then we have not achieved true equality.

  20. Cvillereader says:

    Characterizing this issue as one about bathrooms, or even locker rooms and changing rooms is misleading. This is about introducing gender theory to young children when their minds are still malleable. One School Board in Texas proposed new regulations which would have required teachers to refer to pupils as “students” only. The use of the terms ” boys” and “girls” would have been prohibited.

  21. jonst says:

    don’t worry Prof. This is not going to stay an issue over bathrooms. Nor, for that matter, transgenderism. This is going to be about *self identification* and legal status. In employment, affirmative, et al. Cue up the song ‘I think i’m turning Japanese’. Or the movie Zelig. That is what this coming to and the plaintiff’s lawyers are already thinking about this.

  22. Nancy K says:

    I live in North Carolina and HB2 is a joke. Our gov and republican house and senate have just chosen to make it a big deal. It has nothing to do with keeping men out of female bathrooms or as they like to say protecting the women and girls from men sneaking in to do bad things. It is already against the law in NC for men to sneak in the bathroom and do bad things and HB2 is hardly going to stop them from doing it. It is an election year and they are appealing to their base. Coming from CA I have known transgenders and have never felt threatened by them. Kristen Beck, once known as Chris Beck and part of the elite all male Navy Seal team six can use my bathroom any time she wants. This whole bathroom agenda is being driven by men, not women. My mother is 91 and she doesn’t care who uses whose bathroom. As she said “I just go in the stall and mind my own business.” To bad politicians in NC don’t do the same.

  23. Tyler says:

    LB,
    Or maybe because it’s a mental disorder and should be treated as such vs. Pretending that because a boy “feels” like a girl they are, voila, a girl. We don’t engage the delusions of schizophrenics, this is no different. This is the same kind of progressive “thought” that blames “racism” for the crime gap, the IQ gap, and every other reason why blacks can’t conpete, as a race, with whites mentally.

  24. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I heard that Danish girls have an exaggerated opinion of how much they are in demand.
    I heard that Brazil is a much more profitable destination; “you have to fight women off!”

  25. Laura says:

    The Beaver, Jindal is no longer governor his successor is a Democrat.

  26. Fred says:

    jonst,
    How soon until we can all self identify as African American so we can get all the affirmative action benefits? Or at least the minority owned business certification.

  27. Clwydshire says:

    I especially resent how OFTEN I hear about this topic when I try to listen to NPR. Maybe they are trying to avoid talking about Hillary’s e-mail server. But they never offer real science news, or real engineering news. They did a lousey job of reporting the Fort McMurray fires, not to even begin to mention how bad the reporting is on the main topic of this blog. I used to have some respect for NPR, but it has all drained away as I have listened to the endless, over enthusiastic, frozen smile overdrive of political correctness. Tyler nails it with “Until a multisexual, multiracial hispanic illegal alien genderfluid pedophile is on the Supreme Court then we have not achieved true equality.”

  28. Jill says:

    All the chat and excitement is about bathrooms but I believe the bill also contains language that prevents employees from taking suits to state court if they were terminated because of age, race, gender, etc. It interests me that the opponents of the bill don’t bring this to the front instead of the transgender bathroom issue. I haven’t read the bill and probably would not understand the implications of the language but here is a link from ProPublica. https://www.propublica.org/article/why-north-carolinas-new-anti-lgbt-law-is-a-trojan-horse
    N.C. is a “Right To Work” state and protections for employees are scarce and weak.
    Mostly, I agree with TTG.

  29. LJ says:

    Ridiculous? This has been a total non issue for as long as there have been women’s and men’s facilities. It was handled with common sense and just “not noticing” as Miss Manners would have said.
    Why and issue now? Probably because some “think tank” dreamed it up as an issue for the elections.

  30. Cvillereader says:

    How much do you think it would cost to retrofit every single public restroom in this country to accomplish what you describe?
    Only an extremely wealthy and extremely decadent country would give the concept of transgender “rights” a second thought.

  31. kao_hsien_chih says:

    I am told that there have been physical and sexual assaults on women by cross-dressing men in restrooms in the past. I don’t know how common this was, but it is not as if “transgenders,” by whatever definition, are common either (and I figure that cross-dressing creeps who prey on real women are no less common than “true” transgenders, whatever the definition one might use). I am dismayed that this is what passes as “tolerance” these days.

  32. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to Babak Makkinejad 26 May 2016 at 04:37 PM
    It’s more a case of Danish girls being so pretty that they can be very picky :-).

  33. Dubhaltach says:

    In reply to turcopolier 26 May 2016 at 01:43 PM
    Congratulations on your more than golden married state. I’m reasonably hopeful that with mutual love and mutual foregiveness my wife and I will be just as happy when we hit the 53 years married point.

  34. jonst says:

    exactly.

  35. VietnamVet says:

    Colonel,
    Bathrooms are at the heart of sexual, cultural and functional issues; for example, the long lines at female bathrooms in sports arenas or the safety of unlockable genderless bathrooms. But, the latest government SNAFU is a result of wedge politics and the 2016 election. The LGBT rights movement is composed of urban bicoastal whites and is part of the Democratic 51% wedge. They do not disparage Blacks who are against gay rights because they are members of their voting bloc. But, they do feel free to call rural Whites racists. This is a classic case of divide and rule. It won’t end until the global corporatists in both parties are thrown out into the street. Then school boards, teachers and parents can decided what is best for their children.

  36. Tyler says:

    Remember 1984 and the part where Winston is asked how many fingers O’Brien is holding up? Its the same concept here with the progs wanting you to call a man a woman.

  37. WILL says:

    A voice of reason from an old Chemistry professor who once taught at Davidson College.
    HB2: Who did this to us? We did – [former republican guv of NC] Gov. Jim Martin
    …..
    “What can we do now? First, both sides need to take time to listen to each other. We might learn how some young people have great difficulty dealing with their anatomy and hormones, in ways most of us could never begin to understand. Denying access to our state courts for protection leaves them vulnerable to harm from bullies. Our courts should be open for civil judgment. Hate crimes should be defined in enforceable law.
    On the other hand, we might learn also that some people have had terrible experiences with sexual predators, and are fearful of laws that could make it easier for one to slip into girls’ locker rooms. It is not fear of transgender individuals, who have probably already been using such facilities without incident. (In almost 80 years of occasional visits to public bathrooms, I have never once dared to check out the qualifications of those standing next to me, and doubt that you have.)
    The concern is for unintended consequences on both sides of this issue. Maybe if we adopted stronger punishment for predatory pretenders who do sneak in and violate the criminal law, it might reassure those who have been molested and others who share their fears. Besides, that’s an issue that would justify police action; unlike the City’s ordinance and the State’s HB2.
    Some want to repeal all or parts of HB2. In this legislative session, partial repair may be possible; as some have indicated openness to reinstating access to the courts for civil remedies. With patience and goodwill, the court process should be restored.
    The bathroom rule is another matter. If the City of Charlotte had not taken that step, we would be about where we were in 2015, with little public disturbance of big corporations, popular entertainers, sports leagues, and even daily newspapers; none of whom asked for this. Once that genie was called out of the bottle, a bigger genie was lurking in there, and it didn’t like what the first genie did. It’s possible this General Assembly could amend the bathroom clause of HB2, but it is problematic. No one yet has offered compromise language. A referendum has been suggested, and one can judge from their responses that both sides predict the same result. The General Assembly might be replaced, of course, but this issue will have far less effect on it than will each party’s presidential candidate.” …..
    Read more here: http://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/op-ed/article75834057.html#storylink=cpy

  38. Tyler says:

    Nancy,
    Someone who fled California because she helped make it unliveable with intrusive, unrealistic progressive initiatives upset cause NC doesn’t want male perverts getting their sick kicks. LMBOOOOOOOOOO
    Move back to California then Nancy.

  39. Oddlots says:

    I have a close friend and colleague who’s daughter early in her life voiced real trouble over being viewed as a girl. It wasn’t a passing fancy, it continued as a source of real trouble and anxiety for several years and was relieved somewhat by allowing her – now him – to express it.
    My friend – the mother – is no pushover, no “revolutionary” and certainly one of the toughest business-women I know with great judgement of people. She’s also a fierce mother in terms of protecting her cubs.
    Whenever I hear someone spout about this in the abstract I think of her.

  40. Oddlots says:

    I like the weasel words almost at the the end: “as a race.”
    Is there a race-based Olympiad that I’m not aware of?
    Errrr… I thought we were competing as individuals?

  41. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I agree with Tyler here that we are dealing with a species of mental disease for which there us no treatment or cure – nor even the theoretical possibility of any progress.

  42. LeaNder says:

    Fred, I was a bit surprised, when I stumbled across such a case. But it somewhat makes sense on a meta level. …
    I don’t recall specifics, but apparently Ruthanne Dolezal moved from fervently supporting what Tyler would call “BLM” issues to being the representative of a Spookane NAACP chapter after she may have enrolled as a fake black woman …
    Wikipedia:
    “Following the completion of high school, Dolezal attended Belhaven University in Jackson, Mississippi, receiving her bachelor’s degree in 2000. After Belhaven, she attended a historically black college, Howard University, in Washington, D.C. and completed a Master of Fine Arts degree there in 2002.[16][34][35] Her parents and brother said that upon applying to Howard, Dolezal was assumed to be black by the admissions office and subsequently received a scholarship from the university. Her younger brother, Ezra Dolezal, stated that “because of her work in African American art, they thought she was a Black student during her application, but they ended up with a White person.”[36] Her father said, “eyes were popping and jaws were dropping because they couldn’t believe they had given a full scholarship to a white girl”, although he stressed that “she didn’t pose as black; she just sounded black on the phone”.[37] Her thesis at Howard was a series of paintings presented from the perspective of a black man, and sparked a controversy. Dean Tritobia Benjamin, a specialist on black women in the arts, questioned whether Dolezal was qualified as a white woman to tell this type of story.[35] Dolezal said she was taken advantage of sexually by a man when attending Howard University, and that “suing was nearly impossible”.[38]”
    http://www.ibtimes.com/rachel-dolezals-parents-gave-her-strict-caring-childhood-small-white-town-family-1971916
    “Dolezal had been presenting herself and identified as black for years, but her parents released old pictures of her with blonde hair and white skin. In the fallout, Dolezal resigned from her position as president of the Spokane, Washington, NAACP chapter on Monday, but continued to defend her black identity. ”
    *******
    Interestingly enough, Fred, considering our completely opposite political camps (me: confessing late 1968er), I wondered about the similarities of Dolezal, my own diverse personal experiences with more militant self-creators of all type–not only sexually–I encountered over the decades …, and to chose more randomly a type I only discovered on the web, the self-defined transgender post sex-change, who may or may not have discovered their inner sociopath after reading “M.E. Thomas'” book, “Confession of a Sociopath”, another twist in defiance of the given and accepted:
    http://www.sociopathworld.com/2016/05/defiance.html
    The Despair of Defiance.
    “The Despair of Defiance
    Unlike the despair of weakness, the despair of defiance is the despair of wanting in desperation to be oneself. Here despair is conscious of itself as an activity. The self ‘s identity comes not from “outside” but directly from the self. It is rooted in the consciousness of an infinitude, of being related to the infinite, and it is this self the despairer wants to be. In other words, such a self severs itself from any relationship to the power that has established it.
    It wants desperately to rule over itself, create itself, make this self what it wants it to be, and determine what it will have and what it will not have. The one who lives in defiance does not truly put on a self, nor does he see his task in his given self. No, by virtue of his own “infinitude” he constructs his own self by himself and for himself. …”
    The inner self? A real self not allowed to be??? Inside out, outside in? What is real beyond defiance?
    *****
    Personally, I would have been completely satisfied as a teen, to pick up on b’s response below, if I had been allowed to wear trousers in summer in school but use the girl’s toilet anyway. I would have considered his-image-rule slightly antiquated already then. … Meaning: I somewhat accept gender troubles, I never found playing with dolls interesting, I had no use for them.
    I guess I wouldn’t mind a visually female transgender to use the same toilet as me. 😉 The ones I know personally, are sexually attracted to men for some the reason for a sex-change. Not that it always worked out to their satisfaction. But I guess, that’s life. It isn’t fair after all …
    Besides, full discovery, I wouldn’t say I would never ever use a toilet for males, at least if there is a high chance I can sneak in and out unnoticed and none with a shirt-image-on-the door-is-visibly close by or in sight in times of urgency. 😉 But then, that’s me. Would I accept a male entering if his expression and hurry felt familiar. Absolutely!
    Enforcing general rules, may not be such a good thing, it feels, since my freedom ends where other people’s freedom to decide starts. That’s a basic rule, I accept.

  43. LeaNder says:

    compliance tested?
    I would support TTG, offering an alternative: An interest blowback to the ideology of bringing freedom to the world at large?

  44. Tyler says:

    Oddles,
    I can almost hear you forcing yourself to stop thinking over there so you don’t engage in crimethink. Yeah there’s an IQ based Olympics, it’s called life. There’s a reason why despite trillions thrown at the issue there is no closing of the test gap.

  45. Tyler says:

    Odd,
    The best thing about anecdotal evidence is that no one has to prove their argument.
    Meanwhile in reality there’s a huge coindicator of sexual violence with being a tranny.
    https://genderidentitywatch.com/transwomen-sexualized-violence/
    There sre, in all likelihood, deeper psych issues involved with your friend’s daughter.

  46. LeaNder says:

    thanks, Pat, pretty silly response. But interesting nevertheless.
    Don’t you have these neat images, they can deal with everything necessary: Poor Americans!!!
    http://de.123rf.com/photo_2435522_frauen-und-manner-toiletten-zeichen-schwarz-auf-weiss.html
    Shirts versus trousers. 😉
    https://www.google.de/search?q=bathroom+signs+funny&client=firefox-b&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjz6_TGm_rMAhXCCywKHfRuCCoQ_AUIBygB&biw=1536&bih=740

  47. 5 dancing shlomos says:

    well
    can always replace regular toilets/bathrooms with portable johns/janes/its

  48. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    “pretty silly response” I surely do hope so. You are reinforcing the stereotypical image of Germans as solemn and lacking a sense of humor. pl

  49. ambrit says:

    Good sir, the “minority owned business” set asides include women as beneficiaries too. I’ve seen this dynamic with my own beady little eyes during my time in construction. As for the AA owned “business” game; I’ve worked for several firms where the only “minority” in the corporations’ management was the titular Black Businessman at the head. Everyone else involved were so White, their a—s glowed in the dark.
    Sadly, we can all self identify as democrats as much as we want. The reality is somewhat different.

  50. ambrit says:

    Reply to Tyler;
    Oh, the dreaded “test gap.” Every ‘test’ of one sort or another is graded. Tests are also devised, by people. (I omit existential tests, like how long one can hold his or her breath, or ones’ susceptibility to pain.) There is where biases of all sorts make their presences felt. Tests are also somewhat like polls. Both can, and are, slanted towards some pre conceived preferred outcome. This bias can be both conscious and unconscious.
    The best case scenario I can come up with on short notice would be to compare a meta study of ‘test results’ screened first for differences between groups, and then screened for humans as a whole. Then the fun begins. When disparities between the two groups are observed, how these disparities are accounted for will drive the interpretations; or, vice versa.
    As earlier stated, the ultimate judge of fitness is survival. So, why haven’t the ‘others’ died off yet?

  51. Fred says:

    ambit,
    I working in a global ten company in purchasing where this game is played all the time. Surprising, well maybe not; the minority members of our staff do nott go to many of the public functions.

  52. Fred says:

    LeaNder,
    Dolezal “played the game” because there is an economic benefit to many for being a black American. Let me know which colleges and business kept records of the qualified white men and women denied opportunity because they were white – for “affirmative action” reasons. How much reparations are they and their descendants owed for this “separate but equal” treatment?

  53. Tyler says:

    Ambrit,
    You’re being mendacious here and rambling because you know what you’re trying to get at, “dem tests be rayciss!”, would get you shredded on here.
    So instead a lot of sideways babbling.
    Why haven’t they all died off yet? YT’s money. Take away foreign aid and pull out western aid orgs and Africa gets the Malthusian crisis it needs. See how many blacks in the US would be starving and freezing in the dark of their Section 8 without YT paying the bills. That’s why.
    “Ambrit”. So are you a Brit here or an American in the UK.

  54. Nancy K says:

    Possibly our legislature here remembers a certain Republican Senator with a wide stance in the bathroom,
    Actually I was thinking of moving to Arizona, only kidding. We like it here in NC, especially since so many of our neighbors are also from somewhere else and have moved here to be near children and grandchildren. The demographics of this state are changing. We didn’t leave California because we found it unlivable, we loved it there. However so many other people want to live in CA that housing prices are huge and we were able to make a goodly profit on our house, the Donald would have been proud of us.

  55. Nancy K says:

    I just listened to NPR and they talked about Hillary and her e-mail server for an hour, and they are going to have another 1 hour segment on topic next week. I am amazed that you can detect their “frozen smile” over the radio. I will have to start listening more carefully. They seemed to be fairly balanced in their discussion, but not as fair and balanced as Fox news of course.

  56. turcopolier says:

    Nancy K
    Have you considered the possibility that you and your “immigrant” neighbors and pals in NC are engaged in cultural imperialism. “Frozen smile?” Where did that come from? I don’t watch Fox News, The other 24/7 propaganda mills are much more fun. These have been so far in the bag for HC that they regard Sanders as an enemy. Now they seem to have caught on to how much she is a liar and deceiver and seem annoyed. Arizona might be nice. Southerners are hard to convince of their inherited ignorance and collective guilt. pl

  57. shepherd says:

    There is only one study of any note on the number of transgender people in the US, and it came up with .2-.3% of the population. For reference, that’s one tenth the number of people who identify as Native American. It’s 1/19th the number of people who identify as gay or lesbian (source Gallup ~ 3.8%). It’s so small that the person who did the study doubts its accuracy. And then, the number of people who identify as a different gender is much higher than the actual number of people living as a different gender.

  58. turcopolier says:

    shepherd
    Citation on the study? pl

  59. Nancy K says:

    Col Long, I was not referring to you with “Frozen Smile” that was a quote from clwdshire. I just thought it interesting he could detect a frozen smile from listening to NPR on the radio. You are probably right that I do suffer from cultural imperialism, but then don’t most people believe that how they views things is the right way. I realize that I moved to NC but NC is made up of more than rural conservative areas. I have met people here more liberal than I am.
    In many ways the triangle cities are much like CA, where most of my neighbors were also “immigrant” I was one of the few people of my age, nearing 70, who was born in CA.
    It seems in this election the 2 front runners are both liars and deceivers. It seems that the choice will come down to which one we think is worse and then vote for the other one.

  60. turcopolier says:

    Nancy K
    “rural conservative areas…” Ah, you mean outside the Yankee and other immigrant occupied enclaves. I see. Well, you are probably safe if you don’t associate with the natives too much, and I imagine that you don’t except for grocery baggers, golf caddies, waiters and the like. Does your IDF veteran husband share your feelings toward the natives? pl

  61. Tyler says:

    Nancy,
    You’re my favorite person to argue with here cause you prove my points so nicely.

  62. Tyler says:

    Nancy,
    We get it. You will claim Trump is a liar even as I post pictures of the wall being built.

  63. Tyler says:

    Shepherd,
    Indeed. Its almost like (((someone))) is pushing this issue.

  64. Nancy K says:

    I believe Trump when he says he will build a wall if elected president, I just don’t believe he will be elected. If he is elected so be it.

  65. Nancy K says:

    I believe Trump when he says he will build a wall if elected president, I just don’t believe he will be elected. If he is elected so be it.

  66. Nancy K says:

    I believe Trump when he says he will build a wall if elected president, I just don’t believe he will be elected. If he is elected so be it.

  67. Nancy K says:

    I believe Trump when he says he will build a wall if elected president, I just don’t believe he will be elected. If he is elected so be it.

  68. LeaNder says:

    Another highly controversial issue. Which also makes it interesting.
    This mother began studying the issue puzzled by developments she observed in her daughter. It was the most interesting link, I could find so far. Seems to be a like minded group who does not
    want to simply trust the respective professionals.
    https://4thwavenow.com/about/
    https://4thwavenow.com/
    One of her links below: Gender Identity Disorder of Childhood
    Parts of the “Disorder” don’t feel strange to me, once upon a very, very long tima ago by now, as a juvenile and strictly a young woman too.
    Minus penis envy (no thank you, Mr. Freud, no desire!) or waning to wear my brother’s underwear for that matter. I had a much stronger interest in the short leather trousers he wore all day long in summer. Obviously very, very useful matter, allowing him to slid down hills on the buttocks. Whatever I had to wear was once torn up in a rare attempt. My dress did not even slid well. 😉
    Gender Identity Disorder of Childhood, girls:
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697020/#BX2
    Linked in the article above is a path Tyler may have in mind above. … From fetish transvestism or autogynephila down to (not defined necessarily as pathological) transsexualism
    Some girl friends fiercely disagreed with me on the topic, but the flasher type–autogynephilia? plus provocation?–seemed to be harmless and easy to chase away. More recently I found out that someone close by during my times at school up to 18, a family man with a quite attractive wife and two daughters apparently had the habit too. A really surprising discovery, considering he seemed to be a quite funny and likeable man. … Besides a not too far relative even. His daughter told me. My mother recalled rumors.
    Back to the 4th Wave mother:
    “Given the gravity of all this—that little kids are now being ushered aboard a train that will lead inexorably from puberty blockers to cross-sex hormones (with concomitant irreversible changes) in 100% of reported cases–these brain sex/innate gender identity claims can’t just be ignored and dismissed. Not when so many people—more every day—have swallowed them whole.”
    Below her link: “100% of reported cases”:
    http://www.pinktherapy.com/portals/0/CourseResources/de_Vries_Puberty_Suppression_in_Adolescents_with_GD.pdf
    Medical Puberty Suppression in Adolescents:
    Gladly, I didn’t get into the hands of any of these professional helpers between 12 and 18. But no doubt, matters may be different if there is a more strong nature or biological side to the nurture issue, which was dominant in my case. Besides we seem to be talking about a percentage of 1% of the population, at least according to present state of affairs in research:
    “Transgender Children – The Psychoanalytic Study of the Child
    psotc.com/transgender.pdf · PDF file
    Transgender Children Conundrums and Controversies— An Introduction to the Section CLAUDIA LAMENT”

  69. Nancy K says:

    Well I don’t golf so I’m not around too many caddies. We actually have a fairly diverse group of friends from here, Kentucky, England and of course NY and Florida as half the state seems to be from those 2 states. My son-in law and his family go back to the 1700’s and I discovered that my ggg grandfather was born in area which is now Chapel Hill. My husband spent his first 16 years in England and is fascinated by the Southern accents, which he claims sound like old English. While at University in Israel and in IDF it was discovered he has an aptitude for languages.He speaks 8 languages 5 fluently. He does not agree with anything that is happening in Israel at this time and his thinking is more in line with Sanders but does not believe an elderly Jewish socialist can become President in US. His opinion of Trump is very very low.

  70. Nancy K says:

    Well I don’t golf so I’m not around too many caddies. We actually have a fairly diverse group of friends from here, Kentucky, England and of course NY and Florida as half the state seems to be from those 2 states. My son-in law and his family go back to the 1700’s and I discovered that my ggg grandfather was born in area which is now Chapel Hill. My husband spent his first 16 years in England and is fascinated by the Southern accents, which he claims sound like old English. While at University in Israel and in IDF it was discovered he has an aptitude for languages.He speaks 8 languages 5 fluently. He does not agree with anything that is happening in Israel at this time and his thinking is more in line with Sanders but does not believe an elderly Jewish socialist can become President in US. His opinion of Trump is very very low.

  71. Nancy K says:

    Well I don’t golf so I’m not around too many caddies. We actually have a fairly diverse group of friends from here, Kentucky, England and of course NY and Florida as half the state seems to be from those 2 states. My son-in law and his family go back to the 1700’s and I discovered that my ggg grandfather was born in area which is now Chapel Hill. My husband spent his first 16 years in England and is fascinated by the Southern accents, which he claims sound like old English. While at University in Israel and in IDF it was discovered he has an aptitude for languages.He speaks 8 languages 5 fluently. He does not agree with anything that is happening in Israel at this time and his thinking is more in line with Sanders but does not believe an elderly Jewish socialist can become President in US. His opinion of Trump is very very low.

  72. Nancy K says:

    Well I don’t golf so I’m not around too many caddies. We actually have a fairly diverse group of friends from here, Kentucky, England and of course NY and Florida as half the state seems to be from those 2 states. My son-in law and his family go back to the 1700’s and I discovered that my ggg grandfather was born in area which is now Chapel Hill. My husband spent his first 16 years in England and is fascinated by the Southern accents, which he claims sound like old English. While at University in Israel and in IDF it was discovered he has an aptitude for languages.He speaks 8 languages 5 fluently. He does not agree with anything that is happening in Israel at this time and his thinking is more in line with Sanders but does not believe an elderly Jewish socialist can become President in US. His opinion of Trump is very very low.

  73. turcopolier says:

    nancy K
    “which he claims sound like old English” He is correct in that most of the various Southern accents are from the 17th and 18th Century periods of immigration from England. when I was kid at VMI the various Virginia accents were then so distinctive that I could listen to someone and then tell you which county he was from. I have your husband’s kind of gift for language. there are some exceptions to the older English “rule.” One is in NOLA where there are several distinct white accents within the city. pl

  74. turcopolier says:

    dick T
    If you haven’t had your ass chewed you haven’t been a soldier. I used to be chewed out a lot by USAF generals. they don’t seem to appreciate me. Any time. Any time. pl

  75. Nancy K says:

    Thank you Tyler I feel the same about you. Although I do greatly admire many of your qualities such as training for Paramedic, being in the military and having a ranch and also being a beekeeper. I wish you and yours a good Memorial Day.

  76. Nancy K says:

    Thank you Tyler I feel the same about you. Although I do greatly admire many of your qualities such as training for Paramedic, being in the military and having a ranch and also being a beekeeper. I wish you and yours a good Memorial Day.

  77. Nancy K says:

    Thank you Tyler I feel the same about you. Although I do greatly admire many of your qualities such as training for Paramedic, being in the military and having a ranch and also being a beekeeper. I wish you and yours a good Memorial Day.

  78. Nancy K says:

    Thank you Tyler I feel the same about you. Although I do greatly admire many of your qualities such as training for Paramedic, being in the military and having a ranch and also being a beekeeper. I wish you and yours a good Memorial Day.

  79. Jack says:

    All
    I must admit that I have not been following this story because it’s so ridiculous. But…exemplifies what happens as government grows in scale and scope. Soon they’ll be legislating what you can eat, when you can pee and intruding in all aspects of people’s personal lives! This all part and parcel of PCness going amuck.
    What happened to just having a good laugh with blonde jokes and Pollack jokes and Bubba jokes. We are killing all humor with this craziness. I remember many moons ago watching Blake Edwards, The Party with Peter Sellers with a few of college buddies some whom were of Indian ethnicity. We all peed in our pants with laughter and no one was offended. I can imagine all the PC media ginning up controversy if a similar movie was made in Hollywood now.

  80. optimax says:

    Jack
    The National Lampoon albums of the ’70s would be condemned today. The song “Pull the Treegro Neegro” sung by a Joan Baez imitator comes to mind.

  81. Jack says:

    Oh! Yeah. That would have all the spokesmodels foaming at the mouth sending everyone back to sensitivity training.
    This was a really funny newscast.
    https://youtu.be/iUgdVXUDrM8

  82. different clue says:

    Nancy K,
    Perhaps there is a confusion between “NPR” and NPR’s flagship New Program . . . ” All Things Considered”. “All Things Considered” has indeed had a lot to say lately on the TranGen Bathroom Issue. But other NPR programs . . . Dianne Rehm, Marketplace, Fresh Air, others; talk about many different things.

  83. The owner of the circus sideshow titled “The Peaceable Kingdom” was being interviewed by a local reporter. “Do you ever have any trouble between them?” “No, not really. Once in a while there’s a minor disagreement, but new lambs aren’t expensive.”

  84. LeaNder says:

    Thanks, Jill, highly appreciated.
    Should have realized, interesting distraction. Reminding me somewhat I have never really seriously looked into the larger US Culture War debate. Assuming some core themes were established in that context and can still effectively be used to lead the general public, me too partly in this case, astray.

  85. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    Ah, you have thought that the left progressive agenda now rules the US? you have to remember that we do not have a parliamentary form of government and the Republicans now hold both houses in Congress and are very strong in state governments. I thought you had lived in the US. If so it must have been in some left progressive enclave like New York City, San Francisco or Seattle. having worked with a number of European or Europeanized Arabs I have noticed that they instinctively want to stay in cities like that and are rather fearful of the people who live in most of the country between these “islands.” The fact is that much of the population has not accepted the “future of mankind” vision of people like Obama and Clinton (she). That is why Clinton screeches that Trump must be defeated so that the vision of the left for transformation of America can be fulfilled. The Democrat Left desperately wants to believe that “the right side of history” and changing demography will bring them control so that they can continue to drive the country toward the left. We are going to learn if they can win this year with a combination of white leftists, minorities, LGBT people, some women. The big problem for the left is that their free trade and anti-business policies (coal most notably) have lost many in the blue collar part of the population their formerly well paying industrial jobs without prospect of improvement. pl

  86. LeaNder says:

    Interesting response, Tyler.
    If my time was endless, I would look into the twists and turns that allow the members of the two basic sides of the political divide to see dystopia approaching based on changes resulting from the opposite camp’s oppressive ideas. … (see Jill’s and Nancy’s response above) From the top of my head.
    How precisely am I as “prog” dictating to you to see five fingers when there are only one. And why is it not important to look at the larger context of this law?
    I have to agree, with Nancy above, you are an interesting man. But I wonder right now too, who you were before the for me somewhat central biographical detail or real life experience (anecdote?) happened. Or should I assume you invented it to make your point?

  87. Fred says:

    Col.,
    ” have lost many in the blue collar part of the population their formerly well paying industrial jobs without prospect of improvement.”
    Very well put. I’ve tried to explain that to many of my friends on on the left but they have their minds closed to the matter. Their own comfortable positions are often based directly or indirectly on government funding. (University professors, high school teachers, etc. ) They seem to have lost of the fact that it was taxes on those jobs and manufactures that have now been destroyed. To use Ross Perot’s words, they were lost with that “giant sucking sound”. Of course they have great compassion for immigrants, none for the now unemployed (unless they are degreed, ah “credentialed”). Of course neither immigrants and blue collar workers don’t live in their neighborhoods nor do their children go to school with the other’s. Isn’t segregation grand?

  88. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    “How precisely am I as “prog” dictating to you to see five fingers when there are only one” How? How? The federal government threatens the withdrawal of funds from states that do not obey! Remember! These are funds from the common purse. pl

  89. LeaNder says:

    “Since when is a student ripe enough to declare a gender identity other than his/her biological one?”
    i realized that I headed basically in the same direction. Only later.
    basically interested in the topic and people around and their responses: babble mode. … Sorting out mode? Not having adopted more recent dots in my mind concerning b/bernard yet?
    I am working on it. 😉 Trap? Would make sense.

  90. LeaNder says:

    Fred, I wrote somewhere else, I never liked the use of psychology in my fields, but from my own everyday psychology, I wondered what type of sibling rivalry, alluding to the fact that her parents adopted two black kids may have had in her specific story. I am judging from my own mental meanderings about one specific story that left traces on my mind versus some that left traces of my 8 and 12 years younger sisters …
    If you have a better approach in how to deal with others then descend into your own experiences, let me know.
    Beyond that I am willing to accept that “affirmative action” may well cause rivalry too. …

  91. LeaNder says:

    “to see five fingers when there are only one”
    thanks Pat. Interesting mistake though. 😉
    Hmmm???? Have to take a closer look.

  92. Tyler says:

    LeaNder,
    When you insist a man can have a menstral cycle or a woman can have a penis, or all it takes is for a man to declare they are having a “girl day” and ergo they are now a woman and if I don’t agree then you will use all the power of the Leviathan State and its media tentacles to attack me, then yes you are O’Brien insisting there is 1 finger when there are clearly five.
    As for your last paragraph I have no clue what you are talking about.

  93. It seems to me that the obvious solution, as earlier commenters have said, is having people use the restroom of their gender presentation – Chastity “Chas” Bono in the men’s room, Bruce Jenner in the ladies room, etc. If people behave badly there are already laws against that. A schoolchild whose gender identity is problematic should be excused from activities that would require use of the showers, and so on. It doesn’t need to be a federal case, literally.
    A couple of months ago the NPR comedy news quiz show “Wait, Wait, Don’t Tell Me” – which I still intentionally listen to after having become indifferent to the rest of their schedule – had a joke about a ferret that won a turtle race – “Because he IDENTIFIES as a turtle” – I laughed. Of course, in the Olympics actual biological identity and its relationship to athletic performance is a serious business.
    Why is this sort of thing so much more common now? Is it all cultural decadence (or the welcome weakening of a repressive ethos, if you prefer), or is there something in the food supply that is confusing people chemically?

  94. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    Say what? pl

  95. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I think that traditionally, there had been always a female space and a male space. And the size and the scope of these spaces had varied historically and geographically.
    For example, ancient Greeks, pre-Modern Koreans, Romans, Muslims and many others restricted the female space to Home – and even in home the female space par excellence had been – as is today – the kitchen where the sacred household fire was maintained by women.
    (Watched Anglo-Saxon women unpacking when moving to a new house; the kitchen ware were the first boxes to be unpacked.)
    There were also common shared spaces such as temples, fields of agriculture and horticulture, brothels, and markets & bazars.
    I heard among the Germanic Tribes of northern Europe, it was permitted for women to attend tribal councils and in some instances they could even vote – although they were not permitted to talk.
    Likewise there were exclusive male spaces, for the most part, such as battle fields, bars and assorted other beverage houses, and brotherhood associations and the famous Platonic Symposium.
    I think the scope and extend of these two spaces have waxed and waned historically but it seems to me that in the so-called West are attempting at annihilating these two distinctive spaces.
    I wonder if that is not in fact part and parcel of the same Zeitgeist that aims at nothing less than annihilation of the distinctions among the sexes and the attendant effort at this make-believe called homosexual marriage.
    It is clear to me that the duality the manifestations of which we call positive and negative, plus and minus, male and female, light an dark is baked into the fabric of the Cosmos – what we call Order.
    The union of a man and woman recapitulates that primordial unitarity of the Cosmos – before Creation – from which are born children, male or female.
    Yet some among the Western people are negating all of this, sending females to fertility clinics to be inseminated by the artificial penis – the artificial & anonymous male principle – and the rich gay men to places like India to procure a child from the rented wombs of poor women (it could be called, I suppose, “taking advantage of one’s comparative advantage”).
    These Lesbians who claim to be a family, their children are not from each other – they have never uttered the words: “I want to have your baby.” to their female sexual partner – they never can, and likewise such words would never be uttered by gay men.
    These children are not a result of an Act of Love but an Act of Theatre and make-believe. And yet the Electorate in many countries and territories among the Western Diocletian states are trying to tell me that I must believe in this make-believe as Metaphysical Truth.
    I find that extremely arrogant for a collection of human beings sitting in congress to try to decide the validity and invalidity of Metaphysical Truths.
    I think people who think that they can legislate new Truths or do away with Metaphysical as well as Empirical Truths are bound to eventually cause Civil War in the very real sense of armed conflict.
    A man who thinks that two male donkeys or two female cats make family cannot reside in the same polity as the man who believes in the Sacrament of Marriage between a Man and a Woman; in my opinion.
    Likewise for those who say: “Me and my sheep are a family.”
    That man must proceed to destroy all that is Traditional in order to secure his Make-Believe vision of the world. That is, the struggle against Tradition and the effort to eviscerate the best that has been handed down to us from posterity will not confine itself to issues of sex and family but will continue until the entire social order that has been based on family for the last several hundred thousand years is annihilated and replaced with that of Aldus Huxley’s Barve New World or Star Trek’s Borg.
    Or so it seems to me.

  96. LeaNder says:

    Thanks for your response, Tyler.
    “As for your last paragraph I have no clue what you are talking about.”
    I do find you interesting to the extend I always find “antagonists” interesting, since they may help somehow amend my own limited grasp on matters, judging from myself here.
    “As for your last paragraph I have no clue what you are talking about.”
    The two helped me to see the “wood for the trees”, I can give you a basic about myself here: I will always look at the trees first.

  97. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    “I will always look at the trees first.” Why would you do that? Is that not an emotion driven way to look at a problem? pl

  98. Will Reks says:

    It’s always the fault of the Jew, eh?

  99. LeaNder says:

    “the left progressive agenda now rules the US?”
    Maybe I have basically troubles with what that could be from very, very early on? Thatcher versus Blair to put it into a vaguely AngloAmerican context. Would Reagan versus Clinton (he) help? Maybe I was always a somewhat deficient homo politicus`’ apart from being born into a time and space and interested in the specific single member no matter if male or female?
    Concerning Seattle and San Francisco. You are correct. Basic points of departure. On the other hand it wasn’t so easy to figure out why I somewhat disliked LA, never mind the larger context of my stay there that opened up high profile encounters. And would have allowed me a lot more free entrance instead of inspecting the larger context then I choose to at the time. San Francisco was important due to City Lights bookshop, to show my mental influences. 😉
    In hindsight I may have focused on dots explaining my dislike of the larger context concerning LA, somewhat attracted to anti-LA-bias after as a result? 😉
    Although those where my core or starting points from which to take a larger look, I never really made it completely East, although I had interesting encounters Midwest and South.
    Now that you ask me. Being vaguely aware of what you once alluded to as “flyover America” and connected foreign visitor sensibilities in the larger context, I never made it to the East. Although a more, it felt at earlier times, activist feminist friend of mine, now married quite happily it feels, returning from one of her month long travels from South America (versus mine in the US maybe?) surprised me once by her new love for New York. Never made it there, admittedly. … She seemed to have what you call anti-American bias before. No larger family members who fled there over the ages, as far as I can tell.
    I was vaguely reminded of my missing visual impressions concerning the East or the South East for that matter, when I read TTG’s comment. But strictly, had I been there, would I have been able to immediately see it the way he does. Realize war context? Not likely.
    *****
    More close to my heart apart from the people in a big country, including some crazies I met, I wouldn’t mind if some type of alternative TTIP that introduce the far superior rules of American university libraries over here. 😉

  100. Will Reks says:

    Pat,
    I think you’re mistaken on where these economic policies come from. Neoliberalism is the dominant economic philosophy on the center-left and center-right. The neoliberal left, which supports the Clintonites, supports free trade. The left, such as those supporting Sanders, is vocally anti-free trade when it comes to NAFTA or the TPP.
    You put free trade and anti-business in the same sentence. Big business supports free trade and would see efforts to end free trade as anti-business. The large multinational American corporations all support free trade.
    There’s an argument to be made with the left and coal policy. But you can’t have this discussion without mentioning the fact that natural gas is much cheaper and that has contributed to less usage of coal in recent years.
    The same criticism you have aimed at blacks in the past is applicable to blue-collar whites who have seen their jobs outsourced by neoliberal economic policies. They need to move to where the jobs are because the jobs they have lost are not likely to come back any time soon.

  101. turcopolier says:

    Will Reks
    There isn’t much differences in the trade and business policies of Borgist Republicans and Democrats. pl

  102. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    What I said was that I think you have believed that the values of the progressive left have conquered the USA. They have not. That is what the struggle this year is concerned with. The thing about people using bathrooms is ridiculous and trivial. If you want some pseudo-woman to come into the bathroom and enthrone itself on the thunderbox next to you, good on ye. Unimportant, but HC calling for social revolution in this country, that IS important. And you admit that you don’t know any Americans outside the lefty enclaves. pl

  103. LeaNder says:

    Amazing, Babak, how my friend VV can trigger this really long response, but I’ll look into it. I have no problem to being the black to your white, if I may add that? In other words dark versus light.
    “Yet some among the Western people are negating all of this, sending females to fertility clinics to be inseminated by the artificial penis – the artificial & anonymous male principle – and the rich gay men to places like India to procure a child from the rented wombs of poor women (it could be called, I suppose, “taking advantage of one’s comparative advantage”).”
    One of my cousins is working after years in special research in biology in the field between biology and medicine in a place that helps German women getting a child they can’t get without help anymore. I wonder if you are aware to what extend there is a problem now over here. He never told me that a significant part of his patients are not fitting neatly into your “natural order”. But I meet him soon on family matters, a marriage. I’ll ask him, and let you know after.
    By the way. A female couple I know, not too long ago parented a boy child. It was created quite naturally. No ‘fertility clinics’ needed. The father is the brother of the partner, who didn’t carry the child. Just in case. Considering the child is a boy, I find it helpful the father is that close and available, more basically.
    I am aware that the setting may trigger a lot of unhelpful associations. I have to admit, I wondered myself a bit. They moved away by now. I wish them and the boy the best. I also have to admit that the mother is pretty straightforward, strong and proved very helpful in personal matters around here before I met her partner. Which resulted in my liking them both.
    I am afraid the rest I have to tag under “Babak” to take a look later, if I do not forget. You mention the Platonic School, School of Athens (?) quite a bit lately.
    Strictly I may have used the larger context of what you seem to refer to via that term in what felt like developing anti-Muslim instincts at the time too in a variation:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_School_of_Athens
    But really, didn’t the larger school of Athens, at least Aristotle partly create an Alexander? And how would Alexander fit into your larger ME theory? Versus us Western Diocletians, that is. 😉

  104. VietnamVet says:

    Colonel and Fred;
    The Cultural Wars are part and parcel of identity politics and media manipulation; equivalent to waving a red flag in front of an enraged bull to distract him from the guys throwing spears in his back. The simple fact is the US government is controlled by corporatists and the 5% professional class who do not give a damn for the American people as seen by the quarter century war in Iraq or the outsourcing of manufacturing jobs. Just read the “liberal” Huffington Post to observe this. The heartland realizes that it has gotten the shaft and that Hillary Clinton is the status quo; silence and death.
    https://morecrows.wordpress.com/2016/05/10/unnecessariat/

  105. LeaNder says:

    Maybe, but then my favorite genre in the visual arts was always the portrait and not e.g. landscape that dominates the work of a painter friend. My favorite genre in literature is actor driven, not only plays. But yes, that’s the center.
    Emotions, seem to be a more complex problem. My guess is I have learned to hide them early with the result I don’t experience them anymore to the extend I witness and enjoy them in others. Actually it’s not a guess only … I probably wouldn’t even have noticed I do not seem to show them satisfactorily without outside feedback. Why do I not show joy? E.g. after a success. What do you feel now, what did you feel then? Would you find that an easy thing to answer? It leaves me somewhat puzzled. I do experience anger and a vague nervousness, which I have come to accept as some type of warning from my more aware information processing centers…

  106. turcopolier says:

    LeaNder
    Don’t expect the rest of us to hide from the larger reality. pl

  107. turcopolier says:

    VV
    Well, then we must resist to protect our identity. pl

  108. Tyler says:

    Will,
    You’re right. It’s Eskimo Americans pushing this degeneracy.

  109. VietnamVet says:

    Yes, but with education, civility and non-violence; first.

  110. Fred says:

    VV,
    Depending on one’s metric I’m in the 5% but definitely not within the 5% and so are a number of others I know. Like you we still believe in the Republic.

  111. different clue says:

    Fred,
    As small as “the left” is overall, it is still just big enough to have some smaller lefts within it.
    The shrinking Labor Left is anti-Free Trade and “pro-Tectionism”. But Free Trade has been engineered on purpose and with malice-aforethought to decimate the industries and industrial and thingmaking jobs, and the Labor Left is fading fading away.
    There is also a Limousine Left . . . a well-to-do Lifestyle Left which supports Free Trade. Clinton wasn’t quite part of it, but he shared some of its goals and motives. I have a theory about one of Clinton’s much under-reported motives for supporting Free Trade. When he and Hillary were college students, they spent a summer campaign-working for McGovern. When Nixon defeated their beloved McGovern, they were heartbroken. When Nixon won in part with so many Labor Left union-member votes, Clinton was furious and vowed revenge on the unionized workers who had defeated his beloved McGovern. He bided his time and when he became President, he pushed Free Trade Agreements designed to exterminate the unions whose members had voted against McGovern . . . exterminate them by exterminating their industries. Am I being to pop-psychology paranoid here?

  112. Babak Makkinejad says:

    In regards to Alexander; his relationship to the Academy was akin to Sultan Mahmud Ghaznavi’s to Madressah – Al Beiruni, like Aristotle before him, marched with Sultan Mahmud to India – just like Aristotle marched with Alexander.
    The full development of the Academy did not take place until after Roman Republic was overthrown and replaced by the Empire. Then there was a need for learned analytical men to help make decisions.
    The Academy fled Orthodox Christianity to Iran of Sassanid, and helped create the early achievements of Islam – before, as the Americans would say, Muslims became too dumb, too happy, and too fat to care to think about anything.
    And it was later, under Western Christians, when the Church expanded in the new territories that the need for learned men again became paramount and such universities as those in Paris and Bologna were established.
    This answers your question about the Academy.
    Alexander and the Greeks destroyed a 10,000 year long tradition of statehood in Western Asia over much of the Iranian plateau and Mesopotamia. Imperial order was not restored until the Greeks and their influence were ejected by Parthians.
    Oh yes, I know, in Germany women can rent their vaginas and are covered by unemployment insurance, Indian women can rent their wombs without the benefit of the progressive labor laws of Germany.
    I suppose that is called Diocletian Justice.

  113. Babak Makkinejad says:

    That is what the Iranians are saying: “We must need protect our identity.”

  114. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Is deafness or blindness a defect? Or a malady? Or a pathological condition to be corrected?
    Or is Deafness “Culture”?
    What is Justice?

  115. I’m not sure what study shepherd might be referring to. Wikipedia has an article that cites sources:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_United_States
    A quick look at PubMed found some papers, including this meta-analysis that concludes that the rate of “cases” depends quite a bit on what you define as a “case” – not surprising, of course, but the authors crunch the numbers
    J Sex Med. 2016 Apr;13(4):613-26. doi: 10.1016/j.jsxm.2016.02.001. Epub 2016 Mar 25.
    Prevalence of Transgender Depends on the “Case” Definition: A Systematic Review.
    Collin L, Reisner SL, Tangpricha V, Goodman M.

  116. LeaNder says:

    “The full development of the Academy did not take place until after Roman Republic was overthrown and replaced by the Empire. Then there was a need for learned analytical men to help make decisions.”
    Babak, I see you end on German woman, and yes I am in a hurry … meaning: have not taken a closer look.
    BUT: you need to help me read this. My ad hoc take or interpretation: before empirical Roman power, not the type of Greek power that spread the Greek language usually called Koine, the common shared language:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek
    there wasn’t anything one could call the Academy of Athens? Or it wasn’t yet fully developed since it hadn’t yet handled military power successfully enough? …
    Greek philosophy and its representatives, especially Plato?, were somewhat ‘underdeveloped’ before the Romans took over some time around 200 BC/BCE and refined it?
    “The Academy fled Orthodox Christianity to Iran of Sassanid, and helped create the early achievements of Islam – before, as the Americans would say, Muslims became too dumb, too happy, and too fat to care to think about anything.”
    What time are we talking about here? Are you suggesting around 200 BC/BCE the intellectual Greco-Roman elites fled to Iran and took the literature there, the church would lock up for common man after? That would make sense. But who were they?
    Here I would be really interested in further reading, if I am not misreading in any way.
    And what type of “Academy of Athens” did we have in the Roman empire? I seriously thought it was only the title of a painting, and no I never looked into why it was called that.
    The Greek Agora in Athens and the related building with the columns Rafael alludes to several centuries later wasn’t really important yet? As mental/spiritual/intellectual impulse? Is that what you suggest? For whatever reason, when I think of Greece thought that is one way or another still with me I would go back as far as the 8th century BCE? Concerning the Romans, I seem to be more aware that Michelangelo one of Rafael’s contemporaries once buried a stature to make it seem to be a Greek antiquity. … But yes, that’s me and my limited female mind. 😉
    Full discovery, from my own limited theological knowledge, I at one point in time seem to have accepted the “Protestant” argument of Anders Nygren, that the early Catholic churchfathers were heavily influenced by Greek philosophy.
    Who exactly fled to the Sassanids, at the time Rome adopted Christianity? Is there any literature I can read, any specific Iranian literature or whatever type? Ideally of course something more recent and aware of earlier studies across divides since I surely have no time to study the topic. …

  117. LeaNder says:

    “I’m in the 5% but definitely not within the 5%”
    inside out, outside in? I don’t like the 1% argument like anything that feels vaguely like something that uses a slogan that cannot ever grasp reality. But then I once was trained in PR. 😉
    I came back here to ask VV, where he did pick the link to Anne Amnesia up.

  118. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I think it will be a good idea to do your own research.
    Start with Momsen…

  119. LeaNder says:

    Momsen?
    Theodor Momsen?
    would he introduce me to Khosrow I / Chosrau I (German) the Sassanid Philosopher kin … surfacing on a very, very, very limited search attend.
    Why don’t you allude to the specific and seemingly rare ideological emigrants (none of the big names) that emigrated in his reign but seem to get us into more difficult “waters” concerning West and East Rome? Besides not staying long. As nitwit “netizen” and not historian of the time, that is.
    Hmmm, you may be alluding to one volume of his History of Rome, from a no doubt superficial nitwit perspective, which one? They are all feely available online.

  120. Babak Makkinejad says:

    I respectfully decline to provide further guidance to a self-proclaimed “nitwit”; I fear my efforts have been and will be wasted.

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