Open Thread – 28 February 2024

Have at it, or as Colonel Lang often phrased it, amuse yourselves.


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112 Responses to Open Thread – 28 February 2024

  1. James says:

    Will the F-16s be a game changer? Will they be able to challenge the Sukhois dropping those KABs? Will a Ukrainian pilot defect to Russia with an F-16?

    • Thomas says:

      Yes. on Twitter.

    • scott s. says:

      I keep reading that F-16s can’t be used in Ukraine because the runways aren’t good enough (due to potential for FOD). Have never seen confirmation or denial from anyone I would consider competent to answer this.

      • TTG says:

        scott s,

        Before the war, F-16s operated from a highway in Ukraine during an exercise. There was a video last year.

        • Peter Williams says:

          That was a pristine and well swept highway. The Swedish Viggen and SUs and MiGs are specifically designed to take off and land on unmaintained sections of road.

          • TTG says:

            Peter Williams,

            Yes, that’s all true. The F-35 (Air Force version) is more tolerant of highway runways than the F-16. The STOVL version even more so.

          • Peter Williams says:

            And how many F-35 are being given to the Ukraine?

          • TTG says:

            Peter Williams,

            Ukraine won’t get F-35s for many years. While they’re waiting, they’ll get a few F-16s. Maybe the’ll get some of Sweden’s Grippens or Finland’s FA-18s when they get their F-35s.

  2. James Nawrocki says:

    After viewing Michigan’s Democratic Primary results this morning, I think there is a good chance Joe Biden will lose the state come November if he remains the nominee.

  3. Barbara Ann says:

    It seems suicide for your beliefs is theme of the week. There was Aaron Bushnell of course at the individual level (may he RIP). But no less astonishing, at the corporate level, was Google’s attempt at metaphorically self immolation. In case you’ve missed the news that Google is at risk of becoming too woke to function (my new favorite phrase) you may want to read up on the fallout from the Gemini Artificial Activist Intelligence catastrophe here:

    And for background, and why Google’s AI thinks the Vikings were black, here:

    Truly extraordinary that a company of Google’s reputation is willing to wantonly destroy its shareholder value in this way.

    • Fred says:

      Barbara Ann,

      That should not be a surprise at all. When the 2016 election resulted in the loss for the woman of destiny there was plenty of tears and rending of clothes at Google. The video of the CEO and other execs during an employee town hall meeting was clear evidence of where they were heading. Then there was the firing of James Damore as yet another example.

      • Barbara Ann says:


        Yup, the writing was on the wall. So long as alternatives exist to tools like Gemini the go woke, go broke rule ought to weed out the worst of it. The mortal danger we currently face is the widespread adoption of such tools by the information guardians appointed to keep our precious mental fluids free from ‘misinformation’. These are the government agencies Mike Benz talked about – I call them collectively the Fact Cheka.

        The warnings of Hayek (The Road the Serfdom) and Orwell on how truth itself can succumb to authoritarians are extremely apposite. There are powerful forces trying to turn the US into a totalitarian state and a government monopoly on truth is a key milestone on that road.

        Musk is an outlier as a tech titan who calls this stuff out. We need to help him out and mercilessly mock the woke craziness wherever we find it. Satire and mockery are very powerful weapons. There is someone on X/Twitter with the handle “The right to bear memes”. It’s a wonderful pun, but so much more than that.

  4. Lars says:

    Predictions and polls about the November election is at this point rather pointless. It is a long way to go and much can influence the outcome. To some, this will be a contest between Old and Evil. Part of Old is the experiment started on March 4th, 1789.

  5. F&L says:

    Not amusing at all. In fact downright gross. I personally give this Campbell guy more than passing grades, he’s not at all cuckoo.

    Never seen before clots by embalmers. (Jimmy Dore)

    • LeaNder says:

      Hmm, finally?!?!! So undertakers while embalming found Stew Peters’, blood knots all over the planet? Now that is definitively fascinating. I didn’t realize white-fiber-blood-knot can penetrate our biggest organ, our skin after death. We never stop learning.

      Unfortunately, not much time to watch either Dore’s show nor Dr. nurse Peter:

      Dr. Peter Campbell, meeting Thomas Haviland:

      • TTG says:


        Well before the various vaccines came out, increased blood clotting was documented as a common side effect of a Covid-19 infection. Those clots often lead to death. Now increased clotting is a risk 49 weeks after infection. Some claim only the vaccines cause the clotting. That’s rather disingenuous given that the clotting problem was widespread before the vaccines came out. It may be very possible the vaccines also increase clotting, but since we now know the vaccines do not prevent Covid infections, it hard to pin the blame solely on the vaccines. Researchers have also found that more traditional vaccines like the J&J and Sputnik were associated with blood clotting. The mRNA vaccines don’t seem to be prone to this problem.

        • LeaNder says:

          I am aware of blood clotting as cause of death, TTG. Was close to it myself, once upon a time, Drs told me.

          I, too, recall the side effects you mention.

          What puzzles me and I really don’t have the time to look into it, is blood clots discovered by undertakers. That’s what the former air force Mayor reports to Dr. Campbell.

          And no, not a fan of Dore’s shows. I should be?

        • jld says:

          “That’s rather disingenuous …”

          🙂 You should definitely read the Orwell note, it applies to BOTH sides of any given argument.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          If there is something about the vaccines that is lethal, we (healthcare insurance biz) are not seeing it. We have the biggest and best data – far better than the CDC. We know everyone’s diagnoses, procedures, demographics and much, much more. We also track who has died, from what cause, etc. We have powerful analytical tools and smart analysts to go through all of that data.

          Now, I am as far from a “Covidian” as one can be. I said from almost day 1 that covid was a mass hysteria and not something most people needed to be concerned about any more than a bad flu season. I also said the vaccines were not really vaccines; more like temporary immune system boosters (at best), but that only those most at risk should use them. I sure didn’t get “the jab” and neither did my wife. I thought – and still do – that taking an experimental drug that didn’t go through the usual trials was insane. I stated all of the above while most everyone else was in the throes of the hysteria; even right here on SST. I further said that the panic reaction would kill more people than the disease (it did) and that the high mortality figures put out by the CD were bunk. Most of those deaths attributed to covid were actually some other condition (I stand by that statement and the CDC has slowly been coming around to revising along those lines; albeit quietly). I knew all of that because of our data and expertise, which includes physicians who work for insurance.

          I am not seeing a wave of deaths due to the shots. There may be some small effect, but if it’s there, it is confounded by other factors. There most certainly is not a large effect.

          I don’t know what the undertakers are seeing, assuming it’s not faked. Could be caused anything.

          • English Outsider says:

            Eric – reassured by your penultimate paragraph. Not so much for myself. You take your chances as seems best at the time. But for the younger members of the family. Since they all got Covid, some twice, the shots were maybe unnecessary for them anyway.

            Been wanting to ask when the subject came up. Do your data show the efficacy of drugs such as Ivermectin in warding off or helping with recovery from Covid?

          • Eric Newhill says:

            As far as I know, we have no studies concerning Ivermectin V covid. Sorry.

        • LeaNder says:

          Sorry, TTG feeling grumpy. Spent too much time digging into the genesis of one of OE’s favorite misogynist memes. Successfully. After that, the above snake oil simply was too much. Well it pays?

  6. Fred says:

    Lunch at Snook Haven with the swing band for entertainment. Beats listening to the news.

  7. leith says:

    Last Saturday I crossed the Columbia River to see the Fisher Poets Gathering in Astoria. Ear candy! Commercial fishermen and wannabees out of small and large ports from Alaska to Southern Cal meet there every February in their off season to socialize, lie about the catch, and recite. A few came down from Canada. And also, from the US East Coast – one from a small port across the Chesapeake from Annapolis – and two from Cape Cod ports. Last year they had a University Prof come all the way from EO’s Northumbria. This year I finally got to hear the greats Steve Schoonmaker and Harry Moore from Alaska’s salmon fleets.

    I’ve no talent for poetry myself. Nor have I fished commercially. But as a young corporal married with one child and another on the way and trying to make ends meet in the early 1960s, I moonlighted one weekend, unpaid. Pulling crab pots and gill-netting spotted seatrout to help my neighbor who had a small seafood cafe on Onslow Bay NC. And unpaid that is except for a portion of the catch. My wife and I ate fish daily for a month or more – baked, fried, grilled, poached and cut up in chunks for fish chowder. She hated fish ever since that time, excluding shellfish of course. We cooked those crabs along with a Zatarain’s Crab Boil spice bag. It was great, invited all the neighbors.

    • Peter Williams says:

      You made me recall the joys of BSORS (Bass Straight Oil Rig Surveillance) patrols – the seafood. Every Patrol Boat carried a SCBA for firefighting, and it could also be used for SCUBA for repairs. The amount of abalone and lobsters that would magically appear in the diet was simply amazing.
      Then operating out of Cairns in FNQ resulted in feasts of baked Mangrove Jack, amongst other species.
      And a MEDIVAC from Gove (as it was named then), resulted in boxes and boxes of huge Banana Prawns and squid. And people wonder why I like seafood so much.

    • English Outsider says:

      Leith – reminds me of going out helping with fishing off the Irish coast.

      I think it might have been illegal fishing by then but didn’t enquire too closely: around that time regulations were brought in that effectively discouraged old style fishing. The man I went out with was prosecuted later. He refused on principle to pay the fine. His family had fished that way for generations and he didn’t see why he shouldn’t. He had a point. The factory ships scoop up more in a minute or so than he’d get in a year.

      But the law is the law, ten punt fine or not. So he was sent to prison, where he had a great time and was treated like royalty. Until someone paid the fine behind his back and thus ended his holiday.

      Illegal or not there was a lot of fish around in a lot of freezers back then. Perhaps like some in your family, I’ve had an aversion to salmon ever since.

      • leith says:

        English – Try some wild caught salmon instaed of that garbage that Norway’s fishfarms sell.

        Peter Williams – Had to look up Gove. The waters around that peninsula sound like utopia. Wish I’d been able to dip a line or a net there.

    • TonyL says:

      Thanks for the tips about Zatarain’s Crab Boil spice bag. I’m challenged when it comes to cooking, so will grab a few bags for my next trip to the other side of the equator where plenty of wild crabs waiting!

      • leith says:

        Don’t overcook them Tony. Five minutes should turn them bright orange. Unless they are humongous.

  8. F&L says:

    TTG, you can now buy yourself an aircraft carrier for windless days.
    Who wants to buy an aircraft carrier? The Royal Navy is beset by adversity on all sides. There is an acute shortage of sailors in the Navy – reaching 23%. There are not enough of them even to take many ships out to the open sea. Yes, and there is trouble with ships – due to constant breakdowns and collisions.
    Now London has decided to sell one of its two aircraft carriers. Moreover, the newest one is the Prince of Wales, worth 3.5 billion pounds . The Royal Navy was recently unable to send it to the Red Sea to fight the Houthis due to a broken propeller shaft and a lack of crew.
    Things aren’t much better for the main aircraft carrier, Queen Elizabeth , who also has problems with her propeller shaft. Because of this, she was not even able to be sent to exercises in the North Sea. What can we say about real combat operations – where these unfortunate aircraft carriers will only become a big target .
    That’s why London is making plans to sell at least one aircraft carrier before 2028. There is no money in the budget for their maintenance – just as there is no point in keeping aircraft carriers that cannot even be used for their intended purpose. True, it is unlikely that it will be possible to make a lot of money from the sale of problematic aircraft carriers .
    It will have to be given for next to nothing – most likely to India , which has long been eyeing the remains of the British fleet. London has already written off two destroyers – now the aircraft carrier will also go under the hammer. Apparently, the next in line are submarines with non-take-off missiles. It will be very symbolic if a former colony takes them away – this will be real reparations for colonialism .

    • Morongobill says:

      Vice-Admiral Horatio Nelson must be rolling in his grave.

    • English Outsider says:

      F&L – the aircraft carriers were ordered at a time when missiles weren’t such a threat. Even then, as the Falklands war showed, they could be vulnerable. Arrangements had had to be made for a replacement if one got sunk and that was forty years ago.

      I liked “Give Maggie everything she needs to get on with it”. It came out later that there had been an immense amount of assistance from the US. In contrast to other NATO allies. Wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of UK Euroscepticism dates from that time. Prescient.

      As for the carriers, not sure what the point of them is now. It’s a lot of men and equipment for a small navy to lose in one go. Looks like carriers are obsolete in today’s changed circumstances and the Royal Navy is merely recognising current reality. Why would the Indians want them, is the puzzle.

      • aleksandar says:

        I know a customer.
        Only 3 letters.

      • Barbara Ann says:

        Floating casino? You probably meant the other Indians I guess.

      • Fred says:


        The US lost 11 aircraft carriers in WW2. They exist to go in harm’s way and project violence and destruction in the service of the state. The Royal Navy should look to see what they can do to defend Rotherham before they project power elsewhere.

    • Barbara Ann says:

      The Royal Navy is not alone in being beset by diversity on all sides.

  9. F&L says:

    I guess I’m auntie’s emetic. Because I feel like puking? At the very peak of world outrage and warnings over genocide, the stinking Israelis live up to the worst stereotypes.
    Gazan authorities say that more than 100 people were killed and hundreds injured.
    Israeli forces opened fire on Thursday as a crowd gathered near a convoy of trucks carrying desperately needed aid in Gaza City, part of a chaotic scene in which scores of people were killed and injured, according to Gazan health officials and an Israeli military official who spoke on the condition of anonymity.(More at link)

    • Eric Newhill says:

      Maybe the Palestinians shouldn’t commit mass murder of Israelis on a regular basis. Maybe they should all be rabid terrorist supporters, crowds dancing in the streets celebrating events like 9/11/01 and Oct 7, 2023, etc.

      Think about it. You are siding with people that celebrate the mass murder of innocent people. Scum bag Palestinians shot up some Israelis just the other day. One of the victims was a pregnant woman. Rabid dogs need to be put down. They’re not going to get better. Give them their own state, and they’ll use it as a base to attack Israel. Would you give Nazis their own country? Nope. Same reasons.

      Maybe Hamas news releases are BS. Maybe those people gathering around the trucks were threatening the delivery and/or the lives of the drivers. Maybe you shouldn’t just reflexively believe everything that confirms your antisemitism.

      • Laura Wilson says:

        I have always had a probable with anti-semitism being applied only to those who are anti-Jewish. This archaic term really applies to those who disparage Palestinians and Arabs as well.

        Semitic people or Semites is an obsolete term for an ethnic, cultural or racial group[2][3][4][5] associated with people of the Middle East, including Arabs, Jews, Akkadians, and Phoenicians. The terminology is now largely unused outside the grouping “Semitic languages” in linguistics.[6][7][8] First used in the 1770s by members of the Göttingen school of history, this biblical terminology for race was derived from Shem (Hebrew: שֵׁם), one of the three sons of Noah in the Book of Genesis,[9] together with the parallel terms Hamites and Japhetites. (Wikipedia)

      • aleksandar says:

        Palestinians killed by Israel, not during war, since 1948 : 73 000.
        Don’t speak about mass murder, please.
        You are the murderers

        • Eric Newhill says:

          Whatever the figures, small potatoes compared to Stalin and Mao – probably two of you heroes.

          I always like it when radicals create death tolls from whatever obscure they can find to support their fantasies. Context and methodology is never provided, of course. It’s always “Just accept our figures or you’re a Nazi, Zionist, Colonizing, capitalist, racist pig”. Somehow I’m not convinced.

    • Fred says:


      If only the UN had kept everyone aware of what Hamas was spending all that money on before Hamas decided on a terror raid that killed hundreds.

      • Eric Newhill says:

        If only the psycho Palestinians hadn’t elected Hamas and then propped up a bunch of other jihadi groups.

        At least the Germans tried to deny they were aware of what the Nazis were doing in the concentration camps. They had some shame. The Palestinians are so far gone to the dark side that they dance in the streets celebrating mass murder. They have been begging for a harsh military incursion into Gaza for a long time.

        • gordon reed says:

          If only the Zionists hadn’t invaded Palestine and ethnically cleansed the indigenous population and abuse them for 75 years and imprison the people of Gaza like animals then then none of this violence would be taking place.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            If only the Arabs hadn’t sold the Zionists the good land and then started wars to steal it back once the Zionists developed the land.

            If only the Arabs didn’t think they could wage risk free war wherein they lose the war and get back all of the land the lost in the fighting.

            If only social Marxists didn’t revise history to fit the victim/oppressor theology.

          • Fred says:


            When did the Jews show up? Certainly not 75 years ago. Or does “indigenous” only means what you want it to mean?

          • Laura Wilson says:

            I think there is enough blame on both sides to end the “holy war” argument.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            Btw, Gordon, there are plenty of Arabs living in Israel, as full fledged citizens. Some are even members of the government and IDF. There is no ethnic cleansing. Nice try to equate Israelis with Nazis, but…. fail.

            How many Jews, other than the Soros family, were members of the Nazi party? How many were doctors and lawyers and Wehrmacht soldiers?

          • LeaNder says:

            If only the Arabs hadn’t sold the Zionists the good land and then started wars to steal it back

            Amazing how successful Hasbara in the US is.

            You don’t seem to be the type that eagerly swallowed up Joan Peter’s From time immemorial. One does not need to be those are well established facts?

            Heavily liberally biased Wikipedia:
            By the end of 1947, Jewish ownership had increased to 6.6%.[6] This cycle of land acquisition ultimately ended when the Israeli Declaration of Independence yielded the founding of the Jewish state on 14 May 1948.</i


            What are your sources?

          • Fred says:


            The Hamasbara are now much more effective. All those killings and rapes and kidnappings on October 7th? “Who cares.” seems to be the current narrative. As to land ownership, I’m sure the Ottomans kept great records for all those years they ran the place.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          The 6.6% of the land figure is kind of a low estimate. Wiki is very political and leftist.

          Anyhow, the percent of land owned by Jews isn’t what counts. The percent of land is a dishonest way of making an antisemitic argument. What counts is that what the Jews purchased fairly from Turks and Arabs, beginning in the late 1800s, was the good land; the land in cities and land that can be farmed. The land you can live on.

          You may have noticed that most of Israel and surrounding countries is dessert; very dry dessert. So one could own 80% of Israel and have nothing but piles of sand. You know what they about real estate…..”location, location, location”.

          After 1947, the moron Arabs started wars against Israel and lost each one and, the process of losing, lost land. C’est la guerre/ fortunes de guerre. Also, after each war started by Muslims, the Israelis saw a greater need for buffer zones. So keeping the territory seized in the war makes military strategic sense. Yeah, there are some bad settlers that abuse Palestinians’ right. But that goes both ways too. The formation of Israel should not be confused with the activities of modern day settlers, though the antisemites among us work hard at conflating the two in our minds.

    • TonyL says:

      “More than 100 killed and about 750 wounded after Israeli forces fired at Palestinians trying to get flour for their families as famine stalks the Strip.”

      This event has been given a name: The Flour Massacre.

      • Eric Newhill says:

        There are always two sides to a story. In the Middle East the story you believe is the one told by the better liar for your ears. You apparently learned nothing from the incident wherein the jihadis hit their own hospital parking lot and then claimed Israel hit the hospital. The jihadis/Palestinians are liars. It’s in their DNA and they are trained since birth to perfect that art.

        The Israeli version of events changed over the course of the day (that is normal for fast moving events and reporters trying to keep up with cycle faster than they should if accuracy is the goal). The first account given by the Israeli military was that the victims had died in a stampede in which people had been “killed and injured from pushing, trampling and being run over by the trucks”. Later, Israeli military officials briefed the Guardian and other news outlets to say that their forces had only opened fire on a crowd that threatened them after the aid convoy had moved on, and that most of the casualties were caused earlier by the stampede or people being knocked down. Israeli officials also questioned the death toll from Palestinian authorities.

        What does the UN say?
        A spokesperson for António Guterres said the secretary general was “appalled by the tragic human toll of the conflict” in Gaza and called for an investigation of the incident on Thursday. “We don’t know exactly what happened but whether people were shot and died as a result of Israeli gunfire, whether they were crushed by a crowd, whether they were run over by truck.

        • aleksandar says:

          ” Later, Israeli military officials briefed the Guardian and other news outlets to say that their forces had only opened fire on a crowd that threatened them after the aid convoy had moved on, and that most of the casualties were caused earlier by the stampede or people being knocked down. ”

          Israel propaganda debunked by ………the NYT

          • Eric Newhill says:

            Nope, not debunked. Try actually reading the article.

            As Fred notes, this is the same old third world sh*t, different day. Big monkey takes food from small monkey, by force. Benevolent first world country tries to ensure small monkey get s to eat and pays the price in blood and/or negative propaganda from big monkey. Just as in Somalia circa “Black Hawk Down” time.

            There’s a reason third worlders are third worlders – and it’s not colonial oppression.

        • Christian J Chuba says:

          “There are always two sides to a story. ”

          So what’s the IDF side of the story, that they shot all of those people to prevent a stampede? Such humanitarians. Shooting tends to create stampedes, not prevent them.

      • Fred says:

        Principles! UN! Mohamed Farrah Aidid owns that food aid!
        Sorry, wrong food aid, wrong warlord, and principles……..

  10. Keith Harbaugh says:

    Questions arise about the willingness of Arab states to accept Palestinian refugees.
    This issue is discussed by Ryan Crocker here:

    • Eric Newhill says:

      “…Black September, the 1970 PLO effort to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. That failed not just because of the prowess of the Jordanian military but also because the Syrians withheld the air support for the Palestinians…”

      Once you are able to put aside the narrative that the Palestinians are hapless victims of Israeli aggression, it becomes blindingly apparent that the Palestinians are jihadi trouble makers – belligerent a-holes – and, for that reason, no one among the Arabs wants them in their country.

      This is on the Palestinians. They need to own it and change their approach, but they won’t. Case in point, they thought they would attack Israel in a big way on Oct 7th and then when Israel responded, use that as a PR opportunity. They knew what would happen in Gaza. They were willing to make that sacrifice of their own people so they’d have something to cry about in front of the whole world. Make no mistake, this isn’t just about Israel. They would do the same to any Arab government that lets them in and then doesn’t cave to their every demand, which include a chunk of the country as a sovereign Palestinian state. Their’s is a violent bandit and liar culture.

      • aleksandar says:

        Palestinians are already everywhere in arab states.
        In fact you won’t find a doctor, a dentist or an engineer who isn’t palestinian.
        You lost.
        Request new instruction from Mossad.
        And try again.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          Argument by outlier; the favored approach by people who have not a leg to stand on. Sure the cream of the Palestinian crop, who can offer something of value, are accepted throughout the Arab world. The types left in Gaza are the jihadis that no one wants.

          Also, what do you mean by “you lost”? I’d be happy if decent Palestinians, however many there may be, found a nice home in other countries.

          Oh, you are stuck in a paranoid delusion that involves genocide for the sake of genocide. Nope. Look to the Muslims for that ideology, not me. I’m not even Jewish, btw, let alone Mossad. You must come around to accepting that reasonable people can disagree with your viewpoints and not be part of some counterintelligence operation.

          Who do you work for? A Russian bot?

    • aleksandar says:

      Ryan Crocker is stuck in 2000.
      Things have changed.
      Arab states are stronger and Palestinians are not a threat anymore.
      There is no question.
      Arab states will not take part in ethnic cleasing.

      • Eric Newhill says:

        Dude, “not a threat”? Seriously? The Palestinians commit terrorist attacks on Israel nearly every day. The latest brew up is over Oct 7th. Do you live under a rock in the middle of Siberia?

        • James says:

          Eric Newhill

          If the Palestinians are committing terrorist attacks against their occupier then the Ukrainians are committing terrorist attacks against their occupier. When will you denounce Ukrainian terrorism?

          • TTG says:


            The Hamas attacks on 7 October killing and abducting many civilians were terrorist attacks, pure and simple. Hamas officials vowed to do it again if they get the chance. Hamas attacks on Israeli military/police and military posts is legitimate resistance. That Israel wants to destroy the military capability of Hamas is a reasonable and necessary response. What is not reasonable and probably unnecessary is the Israeli response resulting in the killing of tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians and the starvation of many more. The Israelis are responsible for those civilians in Gaza remaining in areas already occupied by Israeli forces. Failure to protect, fed and provide medical care to those civilians constitutes war crimes.

          • Christian J. Chuba says:

            The Oct 7 attacks was terrorism since abducting Israelis will kill Israelis. But the IDF undermines their argument by gunning down Israeli prisoners in their zeal to kill Hamas. Neither Hamas nor the IDF values the lives of Israelis all that much.

            The IDF is getting more and more savage every decade because Evangelicals in the U.S. have given them a blank check. Everyone abuses blank checks.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          Israel V Palestinian jihadis is nothing like Ukraine v Russia. Israel did not invade Palestine. Ok? They began buying land from the Ottomans in the late 1800s. (who really did invade and rule the region). Some Jews already lived there from way back.

          After the Ottomans were gone, Jews continued to buy land from the Arabs themselves. The Jews then further developed the land they purchased. This is like 1920 – 1938 +/-. Even during this period the Arabs went all psycho and tried to kill the Jews. After WW2, more Jews came to Israel because they were homeless and didn’t feel safe in Europe – and the Arabs again tried to kill them off and again failed. Every time the Arabs tried to slaughter the Jews in a war started by the Arabs, the Jews won and seized more land in the wars.

          That is the true history, facts – though I didn’t mention the Brit’s role b/c I don’t think it’s really as important as people like you think it is. The Jews didn’t storm the beaches and drive out the Palestinians. This isn’t the Donbas circa 2/2022.

          If you can’t accept facts and can’t accept that the history of Jews and their Arab neighbors would make the Jews not trust or like the Arabs one bit by the time we get to current events, then you are a lost cause as far as this topic of discussion goes. I really don’t get where you are coming from. I mean that sincerely. Your ideas are like a fun house mirror perception of reality, to me.

          I suppose you also justify blacks shooting law enforcement b/c oppression!!!!

          Do you shoot people that are “oppressing” you? Do you indiscriminately launch explosives into civilian areas? Do you murder pregnant women b/c they are the wives of your oppressor? Those things are so heinous that they are against the rules of war. It’s really eye opening how many “liberals” here there and everywhere are actually blood thirsty homicidal animals (at least on the internet, but I suspect some in reality too). Do you not understand that if Israel doesn’t press this attack into Gaza, then the jihadis will see them as weak and will gain courage to commit more terrorism than they already do (cowards that they are). It is the jihadis who are ultimately responsible for Gaza – always have been.

          And, btw, I agree w/ TTG that the Palestinian civilians in Gaza sectors now occupied by the IDF are the IDF”s responsibility. However, if those civilians start stealing food and attacking the IDF, Somalia style, then they must be dealt with Somalia style.

          • James says:

            Eric Newhill

            The occupied territories are called “occupied” for a reason. An occupation is an occupation. If Russia buys some land in Texas that does not, under international law, give Russia the right to send troops in and put the US citizens in that area into internment camps. Israelis did not buy all of the land in gaza or the west bank – they bought parts of it.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            James those territories only became occupied AFTER the Arabs started wars to kill all the Jews in Israel. What part about the Arabs wanting to kill off/drive all the Jews begging before there even was a country of Israel fails to process in your mind? I am genuinely curious. Seriously. Could you please explain?

            The Golan Heights? The Arabs lost that specific part in their 1967 attempt to wipe out Israel. It is militarily strategic territory that the Israelis are correct to hold onto.

            Another question – Do you seriously believe that nations should be able to start genocidal wars, lose, and then get back all the strategic land they lost in combat?

          • James says:

            Eric Newhill

            The 1967 war was started by Israel when it launched a surprise attack against Egypt and took out the Egyptian airforce on the ground. Israel fired the first shot – not an Arab army. Then Israel grabbed the Golan Heights and secured 1/3 of its fresh water supply.

            Israel cries self defense just like Russia cries self defense. International law proscribes the actions of both of them and calls on both of them to return the land that they have occupied and seized. Anyone can make up stories of self defense just like you-know-who did when he invaded Poland.

            And yes, the Russians are yelling “they want to kill all of us” just as loudly as the Israelis are yelling it. It is not a new refrain.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            You’re just being disingenuous. More history through your fun house mirrors.

            1967 war – Egypt expelled UN peace keepers, blockaded Israel from the Suez canal, massed troops along the Israeli border in the Sinai, held meetings with other Arab nations to coordinate an attack on Israel from multiple fronts.

            So yeah, Duh, Israel preemptively attacked the forces massing against it and to keep vital goods from being stuck in blockade.

            What were they supposed to do? Sit there and wait to be attacked when the enemy was good and ready to do it? What are they supposed to do now? Allow terrorists to slaughter Israelis by the hundreds or thousands whenever they feel like it because the terrorists use civilians (who aren’t so civil) as shields?

            People like you never have answers – actually, they never even consider the real questions. They just sit on the sidelines, pick a side to favor and then repeat slogans and BS, very mindlessly, but oh so emotionally, so as to convince themselves and fellow travelers through the house of mirrors that they are “good” people in tune with the most hip opinion.

            Do you remember Salman Rushdie? The religious leader of all of Iran issued a fatwa (kill the apostate) against him – not some fringe radical. The leader of the whole country and, by extension, Shia Islam, sought to kill Rushdie because Rushdie wrote a book that the Ayatollah didn’t like. Decades later the psychos were still after Rushdie and stabbed him, nearly to death, at a public event. These are the kind of people you think are so worthy and wonderful and they are the ones from whom Israel must defend itself.

            Aren’t you a jazz musician or something like that? The kind of music you play can get you killed in several Muslim countries. Like I said previously, you are beyond comprehension to me.

          • James says:

            Eric Newhill

            I am not a jazz musician and I am not a looney lefty. I am someone who has been to Syria and had the Syrian Muslims I befriended walk me up the street and introduce me to the Orthodox Priest when I told them I was Christian.

            You love to talk about Islamic extremism to justify your contempt for the lives of Muslim children – but you again and again ignore the facts which are that we are ALLIED with all of the most extremist Muslim factions (Wahhabist Islam) and sworn enemies of the one country in the region which has freedom of religion and which gives women equal rights. That country of course being Syria.

            And you do a very good job of ignoring the fact that your excuse for Israels actions in 1967 “they were massing on our borders and we had to attack first in self defense” is exactly the same justification Putin had for invading Ukraine.

            I judge everybody by the same standards whether they are Israeli or Russian – and I want everyone to start obeying international law. Everybody.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            I apologize. We used to have a Canadian (BC) who is a jazz musician posting here named James.

            Glad you enjoyed Syria. I have relatives living there (Christians). It is truly a multiconfessional and tolerant country. I suspect the Muslim leadership being of the Alawi sect and western educated men of science + the long history of French influence has made Syria an exception in the region. Syria is not the same as Iran or Saudis, etc.

          • James says:

            Eric Newhill

            I wish I was cool enough to be a jazz musician! I agree with you about the French influence in Syria – I found them to be very European in their mentality. But tough as nails – and I am not sure where they get that from.

  11. Barbara Ann says:

    Can anyone think of a reason why Hank Williams’ Nobody is Lonesome For Me is unavailable on YouTube today? All his other songs seem to be available.

  12. Victor says:

    Is there a possibility of a second US civil war or mass insurrection in the near future?

  13. Barbara Ann says:


    Any thoughts on the Russians’ publication of the conversation between German military brass on the subject of Taurus in Ukraine? At first I assumed it was probably fake and intended to preempt a probable attempt to take down the Kerch bridge before March 17. But the German investigation and the lengths the Germans are going to to suppress distribution of the audio seem to indicate otherwise. Instead of a leak of an intercept (which would give away ways and means) could this originate from a ‘friendly’ source – i.e. could it be someone trying to head off war between Germany & Russia?

    • Christian J. Chuba says:

      Maybe Russia wanted to remind the west that they have ears and to put the fear of God into them.

  14. rick says:

    To the posters competent to comment on such things,

    What happens if Israel “accidentally” goes all USS Liberty on one of these humanitarian flights? How much chance of that is there?

    For music, More Nina Simone, but in a slightly less cheerful vein than I usually go for.
    Ladies and gentlemen, I give you “Mississippi Goddamn”, by Miss Nina Simone

    • Fred says:


      What happens if someone else shoots one down and blames Israel?

      • rick says:

        I’d love to see a no fly zone for the pricks, but that’s just me.

        • Fred says:


          oh, another let’s shoot down the (Hamas’) opponents zone, kinda like the White Helmets wanted in Syria all those years. Too bad about all the people dying in the false flag needed to set that up…

          • rick says:

            It would not bother me in the least for the Israelis to be No-Flyed for any reason. Really. I do not think they are the good guys, I do think they are doing war crimes and stopping them from doing any of it would lessen the karmic burden of the world significantly. I hope I am clear, and if I’m not, I’d be happy to clarify any points that need it.

          • Fred says:


            1,400 of them got the no-fly treatment on October 7th. No outcry from the UN and others ’cause ‘war crimes’, but not those particular ones, can’t be tolerated.

    • Eric Newhill says:

      Israel isn’t going to anything like that. IMO, you have been propagandized by antisemites; domestic and Hamas.

      The Liberty was almost 60 years ago. US relations w/ Israel weren’t as strong back then, though Israel should recognize the incident and apologize.

      But what if the British decide to burn down the US Capitol again? What if the Japanese decide to bomb Pearl Harbor again?

      • rick says:

        Eric Newhill
        I was asking a question in light of history in my lifetime, and which has been discussed at length and in depth on this very page. Maybe that was before your time, but you can look in the archive.

        Your point about a difference in relations between the US and Israel between now and then is valid.

        As for my being “propagandized by anti-semites”…eh, we all call the propaganda we like news and the stuff we don’t like something else. I would note the coverage of the “war” has been abysmal, and if you are going off stories that universally refer to one side taking “prisoners” and the other taking “hostages”, I gotta ask you since it seems unlikely that you have asked yourself, Who is being propagandized by whom?

        Soo, good point about the difference in relations.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          I agree re; propaganda all the way around. All we can do is take it upon ourselves to read history and then collate what we have read to try to develop an objective perspective. When I refer to reading history, I don’t mean youtube videos or slick material from various talking heads and biased organizations that one finds on the internet. I like to go to the library and read older scholarly works, though, admittedly, I rarely have time to do that these days.

          I don’t think one can understand the Middle East by merely looking at recent history in isolation. The people there are not like Americans who believe they can reinvent themselves and society whenever they feel the need. Traditions, memories, curses and vendettas cannot be erased with the wave of a magic wand. The region is not “progressive”. Also, there is a relatively diminished ability to see a situation from the viewpoint of the other parties involved, compared to first world westerners. Finally, forgiveness is not as readily offered as it in the west b/c it isn’t a prominent aspect of Islam like it is in Christianity. The first world is built on Christian values and the vast majority of people in the west have those values deeply ingrained in them, even if they claim to be atheists; so deeply ingrained that they are taken for granted as being a feature of humanity (which they aren’t).

          • rick says:


            Thanks for the advice and information about atheists like me. I’ll give it the consideration that it so richly warrants.

            I truly miss Col Lang right now, as he would have been better qualified to comment about the M.E. and the attitudes of its people than I am. I note that I am generally dismissive of theories that ‘they are so different than Us that the things that motivate us do not motivate them, and they are thus inscrutable to us’. Very. Dismissive. They are dehumanizing, and intentionally so.

            I know is is not your intention to dehumanize the Palestinian people, or any group.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            Col Lang had a weird affinity for a culture that dances in the streets celebrating terrorist mass murders; including those of Americans. Same culture that makes women into chattel and kills people that are different (gays for just one example). I never understood it. We agreed to disagree.

            Why do you side with societies that celebrate mass murder and treats women as chattel?

          • Eric Newhill says:

            I need to qualify what I wrote concerning Col Lang. I should have noted that Col Lang denounced jihadis and terrorists. He was unequivocable about that.

            Where he and I disagreed was that he saw Islam as a beautiful culture and religion and – in my opinion – he overlooked how Islam lends itself to jihadi beliefs and is generally oppressive as practiced in most Muslim countries (see Sharia)

          • wiz says:

            Eric Newhill

            “in my opinion – he overlooked how Islam lends itself to jihadi beliefs and is generally oppressive as practiced in most Muslim countries”

            Is it because of Islam though or the particular culture of a certain area?
            Let’s not forget Christianity, inquisition, burning of “witches” and scholars who dared to go against the church. Not to mention countless attrocities committed by Christian countries in the name of the church or as colonists.

            Personally, I dislike Islam and Islamic countries but I am aware of my bias and also aware that I have never lived in an Islamic country. The Colonel and many other like him have, so I must allow the possibility that there is beauty and value in it. Not every Christian is Amish, not every Muslim is a Wahhabi.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            One of my accumulated wisdoms in life is that it is trends and tendencies that count. You may go to Vegas and win a few hands or even hit the jackpot, but, over time, the casino always comes out a head.

            Almost paradoxically, it is the three standard deviation, type-A outliers that are the true movers and shakers, the revolutionaries. These people always tap into and play on the subconscious archetypes of their society. So the paradox gets resolved in that fashion. The outlier is nothing without the fertile subconscious of the populace.

            Now compare Mohamed (especially post Medina) to Christ. Both are huge in the subconscious of their respective societies.

    • mcohen says:

      But why would they.Airdrops are a good thing that hamas has no control over.
      Aid trucks will not enter Gaza while hamas is in power.
      That leaves hamas as the most likely group to shoot down a plane.
      Where is the list of live hostages Israel is asking hamas for.That is what is important.
      No hostages no aid.

      • rick says:

        Prisoners. They are Prisoners.

      • Christian J. Chuba says:

        “Aid trucks will not enter Gaza while hamas is in power.”

        More correctly, while Israel controls the borders of Gaza. You admit this yourself when you say, “No hostages no aid.”

        Israel has weaponized food, not Hamas. It remains to be seen if the IDF will bomb the deliveries after it hits the ground.

  15. Keith Harbaugh says:

    I haven’t seen any top-level posts on the Israel-vs.-Hamas situation this month, so I’ll mention this here:

    “It’s Not Biden vs. Netanyahu; It’s Biden vs. Israel”

    Since October 7, there’s been a major effort in the media-Democrat complex to make Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whom the Left despises,
    the embodiment of Israel’s response to the war started by the Palestinians’ elected leadership, the jihadists of Hamas.

    [However] all credible accounts indicate that Israel is united, across the political and societal spectra,
    in the conceits that the war must be prosecuted until Hamas is defeated and destroyed;
    that the always delusional “two-state solution” talk is dead;
    and that all the hostages who can be rescued must be rescued.

    It is not just Netanyahu who is on a different timetable from President Biden. Israel is on a different timetable…

    • Eric Newhill says:

      So much for the antisemitic myth that the Jewish lobby controls Washington.

      • Christian J. Chuba says:

        The Biden administration is very friendly to Israel.
        The Biden administration has fast tracked aid to Israel and vetoed U.N. resolutions calling for a ceasefire as well as one condemning the IDF for killing Palestinians trying to get food.

        What more does Israel want from us?
        I will personally drink the blood of 2M Gazans.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          If Israel wanted to kill 2 million Gaza’s, there’d be a heck of a lot more of them dead by now. That fact that the casualties, even as reported by lying Hamas, are fairly low compared, to what they could be, indicates that Israel is exercising remarkable restraint.

          • Fred says:


            Hamas speaks like EF Hutton used too. “everyone” listens but not too many wanted to invest with them. At least news of Ukraine has been driven off the front pages of they dying MSM. Which might be why Hamas was prodded into action.

      • LeaNder says:

        Jewish lobby controls Washington.

        The Jewish Lobby is called Israel Lobby nowadays. Why would Israel have no lobby in the US, as many other special interest groups? Maybe a more powerful one than one or the other, since a lot of Americans support Israel, so it’s a win-win-issue for politicians, including a somewhat more erratic one. 😉

        In 2013, Jim Lobe an expert on the neocons active in DC wrote: Who can forget Pat Lang’s retelling of his interview with Doug Feith, an Abrams protege, to head up the Pentagon’s Office of Special Operations? I agree. I loved that anecdote too;)

        Whatever side on the issue one takes: The neocons were and are considered some type of synonym of the “the Israel lobby” in the US. So there is both a mythical and a real lobby, apparently.

        Now some of those neocons’ minor cogs in the larger Iraq-War-Architecture Wheels offer a plan for Gaza:

        Neocon Iraq war architects want a redo in Gaza Post-conflict plan would put Western mercenaries and Israel military into the mix, with handpicked countries in charge of a governing ‘Trust’

  16. jim.. says:

    Jewish Lobbys,,,?? I have Not Seen a Jewish Fast Food Place or Massage Parlor..
    or Ice Cream shop..or Jewish Terrorist any where in the United States..or the Ashes of New York…or the Pentagon…
    .Everyone in the
    Lobby is wearing Scarfs…Its a PLO Show with Another Brother..of Joes…The One
    who is Attracted to American Embassy’s…and Crescent Moons..Hoods..and Torches..
    Eh…Its Not a Lobby…Ita A Drug Lounge…Legal…or Illegal..Pick Your Dish,..You may Find a Diamond…in the Hash Oil,,
    ,The OIL of Choice,,Pick Your War..Pick Your Truth….Preserve..Protect ;;Defend,,
    The TRUTH..

  17. Keith Harbaugh says:

    Tucker Carlson and Douglas MacGregor give some interesting, to me, thoughts on the past and potential future makeup of the U.S. military.
    They warn against following the example of ancient Rome.

    Please pardon me if this has been discussed elsewhere.

  18. Fred says:

    Neocon Nuland has resigned. “retired” to hide out in the think-tank swamp until after Trump’s second term no doubt.

  19. mcohen says:

    Fmg. If they sacrificed Gaza then there is a bigger play.but I think it was nipped in the bud.There will be a third world war in Europe.if I was an immigrant in Europe I would be booking a ticket home.

  20. Christian J Chuba says:

    Israel blocks U.S. flour shipments to Gaza

    500,000 Gazans are on the brink of death, so what is the justification for denying food shipments into Gaza? It’s from the U.S. so there is no need to worry about weapons.

    This is the continuation of collective punishment. Jesus said that the shepherd left the 99 to save the 1 but today it’s now, ‘the shepherd killed the 99 just to harm the 1’

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