"In Swat, the army has been unable to stop the burning of more than 100 girls schools or the murders of politicians and their families. About one-third of the police force has deserted in Swat, and some of the deserters have joined the Taliban, even as trainers, according to senior police officials.
In Bajaur, more than 200,000 people have fled, becoming refugees in appalling conditions in makeshift camps.
The villagers in Buner say they would prefer to handle the Taliban on their own, rather than have the heavy hand of the army come and do it for them.
They did it with gusto, later lining up the bodies of their Taliban victims at a hospital like trophies so citizens could take a closer look.
“We don’t want happening here, what is happening around us,” said Mohammed Zada, a retired bank manager, and a driving force behind the peace council. “The people are very unified so the Taliban failed. We are dead set against the army, too.”" NY Times
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In the end only the people can reject the extremists. This is the great lesson that the US should have re-learned in Iraq. pl
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/world/asia/02pstan.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slog
Here are a couple of quotes from the Iraq Tribal Study:
“… counter insurgency operations must be focused
on the human dimension of the conflict with the same goal of gaining the
support of the population or, at the very least, denying it to the insurgents.”
“But like every counter insurgency, the conflict…requires a leap of imagination from soldiers and statesmen alike. Success depends on the ability to put oneself in the shoes of the civilian population and ask: how would I get physical and economic security if I had to live in this situation? Why would I obey the authority claimed by the powers that be? In the words of Max Weber, when and why would I obey?’
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/the_athenaeum/files/iraq_tribal_study_070907.pdf
Col Lang, I realize in some ways this is off subject, but I so agree that it is only the people anywhere, in any country that can reject extremists, not just Iraq and Afganistan but in Europe and the USA.
It breaks my heart how ugly politics has become in this country. I can’t even imagine what it must be like for people in the ME or in Africa.
I guess each one of us must just hold on to our principles whether it be there or here.
Again I thank you so much for Sic Sember Tyrannis. Please believe me when I tell you that you are one of the very few voices my husband and I listen to.
As the TAlIBAN repeatedly demonstrate, religion and religious beliefs are politics. Glad to live in a country with the 1st Amendment to the Constitution. Thank you George Mason for insisting on addition of the Bill of Rights.
In complete agreement on the concept and the US’s apparent lack of learning. Many decades ago it was stated the fish (guerillas) need to swim in the (friendly countryside) sea. Still true.
Seems that the Taliban in Afghanistan learned this thanks in part to all the NATO mistakes giving them the time to learn, so will the SWAT Talib also? Of course predator drone attacks give them more time.
Even more importantly, it is really unclear in this rapidly evolving US-Pakistan war (Andrew Bacevich’s categorization), what side the Pakistan intelligence service is on. IMHO it is a far more multifaceted problem than US vs SWAT Talib (as presented in the Times article).
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/02/world/asia/02pstan.html?hp
“The local police chief in the Buner district, Zubair Shah, a rising star of the Pakistani police force, acknowledged the challenges of confronting a Taliban threat that is more deeply ensconced in communities all over Pakistan than had been thought.
He is trying to tamp down the Taliban with a police force that is grossly underpaid and frequently overmatched by better armed militants. Currently, the police officers in Buner earn about one-quarter the monthly salary that the Taliban are offering, Mr. Shah said.”
this statement about Taliban vs police salary was a new element for me to think about
i never thought about the Taliban as a “salary-man” army
how much confidence can be put in policemen that are expected to risk their life for much less than the guys who are targeting them are paid?
what keeps the pakistanis from paying these policement more?
to what extent is the Taliban dependent on a “salaried army”?
how much is their salary burden?
was a monthly salary an element in iraq?
In Swat vally the Pakistani Army killed more civilion people then by Taliban, Pakistan Army destroyed more houses then Taliban, and more civilion over there think that when they are killed by Pakistani Army they will be burried with a honur but when they are killed by taliban their dead bodies are hanged with trees or polls for 3 to 5 days, so it is better to be killed by pakistani Army. If you look to the Swat map it is not touched with any other country except pakistan, and beleave me upto 97% of the population beleave that Pakistan Army and Taliban are same thing, or may be they are fighting for same cause.
Till today Pakistan Army didn’t kill any importent leader from Taliban.
In 2005 only 2 policeman arrested the Fazalullah and brought him to police station and within an hour he was set free by receiving a call from Islamabad migh be from Presedent house…..