"A new study confirms that black men and women are treated differently in the hands of law enforcement. They are more likely to be touched, handcuffed, pushed to the ground or pepper-sprayed by a police officer, even after accounting for how, where and when they encounter the police.
But when it comes to the most lethal form of force — police shootings — the study finds no racial bias.
“It is the most surprising result of my career,” said Roland G. Fryer Jr., the author of the study and a professor of economics at Harvard. The study examined more than 1,000 shootings in 10 major police departments, in Texas, Florida and California.
The result contradicts the image of police shootings that many Americans hold after the killings (some captured on video) of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Mo.; Tamir Rice in Cleveland; Walter Scott in South Carolina; Alton Sterling in Baton Rouge, La.; and Philando Castile in Minnesota." NY Times
——————
Well pilgrims, this is where we are in an age of manufactured facts and "truthiness." The reaction to this NY Times article on "Mornin' Joe" today was both sad and hysterically funny. Joe watched the circus from behind his defensive mask while Eugene Robinson the ("Pulitzer prize winning associate editor of the Washington Post") mumbled disconsolately that he "has a hard time with this" and that there must be an examination of the data. The Blackness of the Harvard professor is clearly a problem for his long transmitted narrative assertions. The "legendary columnist" Mike Barnicle observed that we "should all wait to learn what Obama says at the funerals in Dallas. It seemed to me that he was saying that Obama would tell us what to think. pl
************
"Authorities now think that on New Year's Eve, more than 1,200 women were sexually assaulted in various German cities, including more than 600 in Cologne and about 400 in Hamburg.
More than 2,000 men were allegedly involved, and 120 suspects — about half of them foreign nationals who had only recently arrived in Germany — have been identified.
Only four have been convicted, but more trials are underway.
On Thursday, a court in Cologne sentenced two men in the New Year's Eve assaults. Hussein A., a 21-year-old Iraqi, and Hassan T., a 26-year-old Algerian, were handed suspended one-year sentences. Both arrived in Germany in the past two years, a court spokesman said. He declined to specify whether the two had sought asylum." Washington Post
—————
The European and other Left want desperately to believe that we humans are all much the same. In America, the believers often assert that behavior of the "German New Year's Party" type by people from another culture is evidence of madness. It is not. It is evidence of difference. I guess the fellows involved are not "pilgrims" in the sense that most Germans understand the word, but what do I know? Ah, I do know that many younger Middle Eastern men are unequipped by upbringing and shared assumptions to deal with the spectacle of young women cavorting, drinking and flirting in the public square at midnight. Their instinctive reaction to that is believe they are whores. pl
Sir – on these facts, I believe the European women were treated even worse than whores. At least whores are expected to be paid for their service. Or, are whores not paid in majority-muslim cultures? There must be more to explain the cultural “difference” than this.
Regarding the findings of the Harvard study on the racial aspects (or lack thereof) of police use of force: Way back when I was in grad school I took some public policy elective classes b/c I was studied economics with a healthcare focus and that track was mentored through the public policy school. I learned from scholarly studies, even back then, that it was known that if one controls for aggravating circumstances (e.g. arguing, resisting arrest, attempting to flee, being armed) that apparent racial biases in both alleged police use of excessive force and harshness of sentencing tend to disappear. I guess some people need to be reminded. Or perhaps that the current study was performed by a black man makes it more legitimate. Anyhow, glad it is gaining attention at this time and hopefully it will introduce some sanity into the national psyche.
Regarding the differences exhibited by recent immigrants from the MENA. 1. This group seems to be different (not in a good way) from the MENA immigrants I knew growing up. Maybe that is b/c there was a tighter – and better – selection criteria 40 or 50 years ago. 2. The left is demonstrating their insanity/schizophrenia yet again. What happens when the children of all of these people start hitting the liberal public school system and come home telling their parents about all the wonderful atheism they are learning, and that homosexuality is a good thing, even heroic, and their daughters want to dress like trashy teen idols, etc. The clash of civilizations hasn’t even begun, IMO. And to think, the left hates Christians for their outlooks, yet imports people who are at least as devoted to their old school religion, but without the love and forgiveness and turn the other cheek ideology. The Left is soooooo deluded.
All cards are now on the table:
““We ought to be providing lethal aid”—anti-tank, anti-armor weapons, unmanned aerial vehicles, and cyber assistance—to the Ukrainian government in its struggle with Russian-backed separatists, retired NATO commander Adm. James Stavridis told the Senate Armed Services Committee on Tuesday.
Soviet President Vladimir Putin “has demonstrated he is the bully in the neighborhood” by seizing parts of Georgia, Crimea and Ukraine.
As to whether sending lethal aid would cause Russia to send more aid, and even troops, to support the separatists, Stavridis said, in answer to a question, “This is a calculation” that it will not commit its forces, but “when you release ordnance, everything changes.”
The former top officer in European Command added, “If the Ukrainian government cannot hold the line against the separatists [in the eastern region of the country], they will lose politically.” The United States is “trying to stabilize a democracy.”
This is our next Vice President if Hillary Clinton is elected. But it also reveals that Clinton is a neocon through and through.
Col. Lang,
I was just reading that. People are shot out of fear, which is understandable considering drug use and guns. I’d find a different line of work.
DC
“Whore” here is used as a description of instinct and practice rather than occupation. Would you like “slut” better? “There must be more to explain the cultural “difference” than this.” Ah! I have heard this before. You probably do believe that we are basically all the same, and so have little use for “the culture thing.” pl
Cee
Ah you must be talking about the cops and robbers world. Shooters in my world did so because that was “taking care of business.” pl
The initial findings of killings are certainly counter intuitive. But Fryer pointed out that this is by no means a national data investigation. Would there be a difference if you investigated N.Y.C., Chicago and Seattle. Or Wash., D.C., St. Louis, Salt Lake City and San Francisco? In the samples that he drew were there differences in L.A., Houston and Dallas compared to the smaller cities? Would that be true nationwide? This certainly opens a wide avenue for statistical investigation.
Ironically, in light of the recent shootings there, Dallas has a pretty good reputation of police relations with the citizens — in contrast to decades ago. Their chief (black) has presented a very calm and level headed demeanor during the days following the shootings. He praised his department, spoke well of the Black Lives Matter demonstrators and invited members of the group to come apply for a job with the police department. If they passed the background checks and the training he would guarantee them that they would be put back into the communities of their choice. This is a very savvy fellow.
Stonevendor
Yes, you and Gene Robinson can “examine the data” together. Surely there must be something wrong with this study. Surely! pl
It is my understanding that in many muslim cultures, especially in the ME, the anti-Western propaganda has much to say about the social decadence of the west and the decline of “virtue.” Perhaps these ME men were hoping that was true, or believed it to be true, and that therefore assumed European women were “easy” and that they could therefore treat these women differently than women from their own culture.
Eric Newhill
The old timie immigrants to the West were not reinforced in their resistance to actual Western culture by the consensus of the masses of numbers. But, there were problems still, the odd “honor killing” of a girl who tried to assimilate, cab drivers who would not take fares who had been drinking, etc. pl
When I first saw the headline for this post, I thought it would be about this…
Bernie Sanders endorses Hillary Clinton http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/11/politics/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders/
IMO, anyone who is still looking for a politician to be their “hero” or “champion” needs to become more realistic about the ways of power and money.
valissa
“the anti-Western propaganda” You mean the general feeling among the pious concerning Western culture? That requires no “propaganda.” Yes, they would see the antics of western women on such an occasion as a “proof” and validation of what they hoped was true about them. Most young Muslim men live in a state of sexual deprivation. And then, all of a sudden … Look at this guys! pl
A great left thinker, Slavoj Zizek, has been relentlessly attacked because of this piece http://www.lrb.co.uk/2015/09/09/slavoj-zizek/the-non-existence-of-norway
We should nevertheless reject the left-liberal attitude. The complaints that moralise the situation – ‘Europe is indifferent to the suffering of others’ etc – are merely the obverse of anti-immigrant brutality. They share the presupposition, which is in no way self-evident, that the defence of one’s own way of life is incompatible with ethical universalism. We should avoid getting trapped in the liberal self-interrogation, ‘How much tolerance can we afford?’ Should we tolerate migrants who prevent their children going to state schools; who force their women to dress and behave in a certain way; who arrange their children’s marriages; who discriminate against homosexuals? We can never be tolerant enough, or we are always already too tolerant. The only way to break this deadlock is to move beyond mere tolerance: we should offer others not just our respect, but the prospect of joining them in a common struggle, since our problems today are problems we share.
His larger point being that there are large differences in western European and in rural Syrian Sunni culture, and that pointing them out isn’t racism, it’s simply reality, rather than a fantasy where all people are exactly the same. And he continues that living in that fantasy allows these various mass outrages to happen, which empower reactionary nationalistic parties. As always, liberals feed and then give way to fascists.
As for police in america, black people get tired of being treated like criminals for existing, and shootings by police are just locii to concentrate these feelings around. Wether or not they’re shot more or less isn’t their deepest concern.
All,
I think a paper to which ‘walrus’ linked in an earlier thread is well worth bringing into the discussion. It is entitled ‘The Danger of the “Black Lives Matter” Movement’.
(See https://imprimis.hillsdale.edu/the-danger-of-the-black-lives-matter-movement/ .)
Its argument, as summarised by ‘walrus’, whose son is a police officer:
‘Basically the prevalence of black on black crime ensures that Police will face a prevalence of armed homicidal blacks in their daily work.
‘The ultimate cause of black crime is a separate discussion from the police response. to it. The scholarly paper explains that the police response is both entirely understandable and beneficial to what passes for the black community as a whole. A corollary is that the black community is going to suffer more if police behavior is forcibly modified as a result of more PC correctness.’
Of course, as I have no claims to any expertise in this area, I cannot rule out the possibility that the paper’s analysis is flawed. I am curious as to whether supporters of ‘Black Lives Matter’ can provide a cogent refutation.
What I can say from British experience are three things. 1. In general, ‘victim’ culture does not originate with ‘victim’ groups, but with élite white groups, whose enthusiasm for identifying with the ‘underdog’ commonly has distinctly suspect undertones; 2. Even where people have very good reasons to see themselves as ‘victims’, doing so can be deeply demoralising; and 3. that in this respect, ‘Black Lives Matter’ and ‘AIPAC’ seem to me rather similar, and equally pernicious.
DC
I was a member of the HF Guggenheim Foundation board of directors for many years. We relentlessly gave free money to aspiring social science scholars. I found that the common thread in the thinking of all these folks was an effort to re-define human nature into categories more comfortable for those unhappy with the demonstrated nature of man in his endless search for group identity through shared belief. This search seeks endlessly to denigrate the power of culture and to search “beneath” for the “real,” i.e., economic, truth of all things. pl
Some details:
Young men of MENA often hold these views: a woman walking alone showing skin is a whore. In an interview on Swedish TV some young men of such background in a suburb were interviewed (and they were of course chosen to be likable) they slipped and used the term Svennehora (Swedish whore) synonymous with young girl. Oops.
Porn is widely available in these countries these days, 60% of performers are white, and that probably contributes to their view on Western women. There is an over representation of bizarre search terms for incest, pedofilia or bestiality (does not imply men there like these things, these are the Google search term data).
In Sweden it appears the Overton window has shifted and mass media can carefully write somewhat openly about the problems with gang rapes, mass groping or honour killings. Just a little bit though, the vast majority of media and journalists are solidly leftist pro-immigration.
This guys says how it is – and he came from (former rep of Yugoslavia)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nA9yjrqtWG0&list=PLo0ElGp48iyJ35AXMCadvnzYK6fJth4ho&index=7
Stonevendor:
This is what I found kind of amazing when I read the NYT piece — why is it “counter intuitive” at all? I have no intuition at all when it comes to law enforcement use of deadly force. What perception I might have is created by media and political figures’ slant and spin.
“they could therefore treat these women differently than women from their own culture.”
or the same as loose women from their culture???? the rules for cross-cultural cross-gender transactions are all unwritten — it is a minefield. same goes for regional subcultures.
There have been a slew of articles among the intelligentsia whining about the failure(s) of liberalism recently. I find that oddly amusing. While I agree that liberalism has lots of problems (which is why I am an ex-liberal), I find that a limiting frame for interpreting current events. Another example of a simple minded ideological approach to life’s complexities and ambiguities.
Stonevendor,
This Washington Post article and interactive database, in spite of its misleading title, will let you discover all the answers you want about police shootings. It clearly shows there is no blue conspiracy to kill blacks. And this database was available since 7 July for any of the esteemed faces on “Mornin’ Joe” to discover. I don’t understand why Eugene Robinson of the Washington Post would be surprised. Doesn’t he read his own paper?
The truth of the NYT study and the WaPo database should slap the mouths dry of all those who say there is a race war brewing. Not only is there no blue conspiracy to kill blacks, but there is no black conspiracy to kill cops. This year 56 police officers have died in the line of duty with 26 of those killed by gunfire. All these killings are tragic, some are stupid and a few are flat evil, but it is not indicative of a coming race war. The NYT study concludes that there is evidence of a police bias against blacks and there is work to be done. We should do that work and call out all those who squeal hysterically about conspiracies and race wars.
The usual suspects come out to attempt to handwave away there stats. “TV tells me blacks are all noble rocket scientist brain surgeons and Muslims are all moderate liberals! What is going on! Hrmmm!” they say from their lily white zip codes.
Some of you people have so much invested in being a goodthinker you can’t see reality until it’s a 17 year old negro buck beating your head in for your stupid electronic toy.
Valissa,
No propaganda necessary. Simply watching Hollywood movies, even after censoring, would cement the belief that Western women are “easy” if that is the only point of reference.
Forgive me but I don’t trust the nyt to comment on statistics. I have found the paper to be utterly innumerate in the past. It does not constitute proof but is reason for doubt on any figures they “interpret”. That said, I have come to the conclusion that the problem of police shootings is not an issue of race. Considering the ethnicity of the police shooter in Minesota, or the recent “road rage” shooting in east nyc. Instead it is an issue of police prioritizing their own safety above the publics safety.
All, The left in both Europe & the U.S. seems to power their agendas by claiming
to be offended. I’m offended. There, I have said the magic words. I find much of what
the far left does & says offensive. Now the balance has been restored & all is once
again o.k. Right? Or doesn’t it work that way? Please consider me offended.
You might also find this interesting:
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/02/08/cover-story-personal-history-elif-batuman
Please search for the following text and start at three paragraphs earlier:
“I replied, in my simplistic Turkish, that to me this sounded like a threat: either cover your head or rape can happen.”
It used to be that the West was known worldwide for putting women on pedestal (one of first US ambassadors/ministers to China justified not kowtowing to the emperor by saying that he only bows before God and women, I think–it might be apocryphal, but I’m sticking to it). What happened?
Western liberals might have thought that getting women off the pedestal was “liberating” them…but in a way, it may also have made them look “cheap” and “undignified,” which probably contributed to the perceptions like that.
Not a refutation but a counter argument. Black on black crime is much reduced as is all crime in cities like NY or LA. However anecdotally deaths from police shooting appear to be on the rise in the same locations. I say appear because I do not have reliable data and I have read that none is collated. Tyler can probably comment and correct me.
Death from a random interaction with the police is not something any community is likely to be sanguine about even if the community in general benefits from greater police activity. If I lose one child to such an interaction due to “error” I would not forgive it. It is not just.
The impression is that the police are happy to accept a certain number of “accidents” to reduce the risks associated with serving these communities. That number would not be considered acceptable by other communities in America.
As the non-white population increases this is likely to cause increasing friction unless we find another solution. However I don’t think this is a new problem in the US. The country is “rougher” than Europe and is used to more aggressive policing
Your understanding is wrong.
4 Afghans raped this young French woman who was hiking in mountains around Tehran some time ago; 2 were caught and sentenced to death, 2 have fled Iran to Afghanistan.
A fifth Afghan actually helped the rape victim.
I doubt that the Afghans were motivated by anything that you describe.
The 19-year old village school teacher, on her way back from a Friday visit to another fellow young woman school teacher in the next village, is caught, raped and her skull crushed with a rock by two local men – in this case Iranians. Death sentences were handed out and carried out.
Harry
” … and is used to more aggressive policing.” That is true. I am required to watch a lot of European TV and if the cop operas are anything like reality, then behavior and language directed at police that would result in violence is much more tolerated there. We are rough people in general. the Left is trying to breed it out of us. pl
Bill Herschel,
We are dealing with different facets of the same problem – the inability of contemporary Western élites, including much of the ‘right’ as well as much of the ‘left’, to recognise difference.
This reached a peak of absurdity in Samantha Power’s ‘My Remarks to the Ukrainian People’ last November, when she quoted Mikhail Bulgakov, describing him as ‘Kyiv’s native son’.
(See http://www.huffingtonpost.com/samantha-power/my-remarks-to-the-ukraini_b_7564164.html .)
Anyone who had either read Bulgakov, or had actually talked to people from Ukraine when they weren’t playing ‘fool the stupid sahib’, would know that there is no ‘Ukrainian people’.
So Lviv was, and is, a Habsburg city – in some ways more so than Vienna, as it was not fought over in the war. The ‘Galician’ culture of the area – portrayed as a force of primitive barbarism in Bulgakov’s ‘The White Guard’ – is different from that of Kiev, which is is in turn different from that of the Donbass and Crimea.
It is generally true of human beings that they are very good at remembering the wrongs done to them, rather less good at remembering the wrongs they have done to others.
A predictable result in Ukraine is that it has always been true that, if you say the wrong thing about Stepan Bandera in a bar in the wrong part of the country late at night, you are quite likely to end up dead, or at least seriously injured.
Happy coexistence on a basis of equality between people with different cultures, and different historical memories, is not a ‘natural’ state, be it in Ukraine, Britain, or the United States.
A quite different situation obtains where there is interchange between cultures in a context where one clearly holds political power, as in medieval Andalusia; where members of other cultures want to assimilate to a dominant culture, as was commonly the case in the Roman Empire; or where they are subsumed into a common ideologically-based system.
And this is what appears to be meant by the notion that the United States is a ‘propositional nation’.
A difficulty is that this is precisely what the old Soviet Union was.
One may find the ‘propositions’ on which the United States is supposedly based rather more appealing than those on which its old Cold War antagonist was founded (irony alert.)
It is however not clear that the United States can simply avoid one of the problems on which the Soviet system foundered – that in terms of the ‘propositions’ which were supposed to ensure the happy coexistence of the inhabitants, a clear understanding of group tensions both in the external world and internal actually becomes very difficult.
Bingo!
From The Independent, here’s the full story:
EARLY IN the morning of 14 September 1793, George, Lord Macartney, the first British ambassador ever to visit the Chinese court, entered the imperial tent in Jehol, the Manchu capital, to see the emperor Qianlong.
As one, a thousand demonstrated their submission to the Son of Heaven by performing the ceremony of the kowtow. Three times they fell to their knees, and three times on each occasion they touched their foreheads to the ground. Macartney, however, refused to kowtow. He would bend one knee, he said, to his sovereign; both knees he would bend only to his God. Three times, with the greatest politeness, he went down on one knee. And three times, in the course of each genuflexion, in rhythm with the mandarins, he respectfully bowed his head. But he flatly refused to touch his forehead to the ground.
http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/books/book-review-the-sacred-kowtow-godfrey-hodgson-on-how-chinese-ceremony-and-british-arrogance-led-to-a-1474125.html
women are “easy in America as I heard it from Western Europeans…
rjj
“Loose women” in their countries are those who do not conform to accepted social standards there. They are treated as whores whether they are or not. pl
Babak
We always lead the way. pl
Very perceptive commentary, David. Thanks.
As far as propositional nations are concerned, I would like to know: What, at present, is the proposition behind the USA? After all, if there is no fixed proposition behind the propositional nation, or if it is sufficiently vague, then the whole thing can easily degenerate into an authoritarian cult manipulated by the leadership–even if it’s supposed to be ‘democratic’.
I think the study is consistent with the sense I have that the problem is that the lethal police-involved violence is on the rise in general, not that it is directed at any particular race/ethnicity–b/c it really isn’t. I’m being very careful with the wording since the problem puts police on the receiving end as well as the giving end of the lethal violence with increasing frequency, or at least so it seems. While the police is becoming more mlitarized and is more willing to use violence, they are also increasingly operating in an environment where they are being targeted.
I am curious, though, where this fits in the long run. There was a big uptick in anti-police violence in 1970s, a big surge in crime in 1980s, more active policing and a big dip in crime rates nationally in 1990s and beyond (were these connected? opinions vary and I don’t have enough information to draw any conclusion there…) Back in 1980s, I don’t think there was as much “police violence”–cops tended to pull back rather than take on too much risk, and the citizens suffered from the crime wave in their (relative) absence. Are we to see a repeat of the 1980s crime wave soon?
Sir: No, I simply think you used the word “whore” too casually to explain the cultural difference. “Slut” doesn’t do it either, as sexual predators are still subject to criminal sanction, for committing their offenses, even if committed against a slut. There must be something more to explain this culture’s desire to commit the sex crime. I’m not expert in the Koran, but I would suspect it has something to do with is the allowance for rape against non-believers (infidels).
The diplomat who added “and women” was definitely an American, not Macartney. I can’t remember the context, though.
This study flatly contradicts your assertion of equal use of “force”.
Read it and you will see.
There are other problems with it that I won’t go into other than why does one need a secret donor to accomplish this study???
Also, for the record, I do believe that “fatal force” may be employed at the rate the study suggests and it would make perfect sense.
After all, one would need to believe that most officers would have little regard for their own and their families welfare in order to shoot as a default position.
DC
“I would suspect it has something to do with is the allowance for rape against non-believers (infidels). ‘ There is no such “allowance.” You are a bigoted and ignorant fool. Do you imagine that I care about your critique of my use of words? fool. I thought you were merely a social science type. And there is much more to Islam than the Qur’an. pl
The difference for United States was that we were never very honest about our “propositions,” at least until recently.
There was always the presumption that there was a dominant and rather inward-looking and parochial culture that everyone took for granted is the norm in United States and that any and every one who comes would assimilate and blend into it. It was not until very recently that the alleged American ideal became so secularized and cosmopolitanized. I don’t think the old provincialism that dominated American culture was such a bad thing: cosmopolitanism is always the reserve of the aristocracy, and by forcing even would be aristocrats to be provincial, American provincialism kept American politicians more grounded and “democratic.”
One might say that the same was true with USSR, but only through deceit. The official position in Moscow was always that of universalistic cosmopolitanism, without any formal sanction for provincialism. Clever politicians still kept one foot rather clandestinely back in their homeland, so to speak (the Aliyev’s of the world) as an insurance, and when USSR fell, that worked out well for them. So the paradox: in a political universe where there is insistently no “localism,” everyone who was clever was carefully building up local apparatus of power for themselves, far more than, in a sense, a country where. more or less officially, “all politics was local.” The entire political order was built on a lying paradox.
In the last few decades, the universalistic cosmopolitanism, a rather alien concept really, has come to be the unifying creed of the American aristocracy who fancy themselves enlightened because they read whatever 21st century equivalent of Voltaire–but are as authoritarian as Frederick II (yes, an Enlightened despot–but he was aware enough that he was the despot, even if he fancied himself Enlightened.) So do we have the lying paradox like France in 1780 or USSR in 1980?
TTG,
You need to make that 58 as two were shot to death in a Michigan courthouse yesterday.
Col.,
Two more pieces of evidence that put the lefts BM/LGBT talking pionts through the shredder. What a shocker, cops are not the racists that the left has made them out to be for years. The “toxic masculinity” and “rape culture” as espoused by the feminist left, best epitomized in the US by the Rolling Stone Faux Rape story, is shown to be the toxic assault on Western culture it always was. Of course we will hear the elected rape apologists tell the world we can’t discuss “refugees” or “foreigners” because …..; just like this German legislator is doing.
“ It seemed to me that he was saying that Obama would tell us what to think. “
That sounds exactly like the left, who think the President is commander in chief of the citizens and it is our duty to adhere to their mandate to enforce cultural uniformity across the nation in all forms of acceptable thought and discourse.
I not sure I understand the connection, in fact I am SURE I don’t understand it, between being an ‘easy woman’, or man, as the case may be these days, and therefore being seeing as welcoming some unknown creep’s assault in a public space. The ones I saw arrested did not appear to be big on bathing….and basically were wearing homeless shelter type clothes. “Easy” or not, who wants those creeps near them?
“Easy”, has nothing to do with. “easy” have no desire to be assaulted by creeps. Its more like, ‘go home, bath, brush your teeth, get someone other than you social worker to select your clothes, get enough money to buy more than a stinkin hamburger at McDonald’s, get a car, or at least be able to afford a taxi, and a nice hotel room, or decent flat (in other words, grow up), and when you’ve done all that come back and see me’).
here in days of yore same was assumed about anybody who did see the benefits of becoming a client via parlaying a cherry into a sinecure.
johnA,
I haven’t read the new study. I did read, in detail, the older studies I mentioned. I repeat that controlling for aggravating circumstances Blacks are treated fairly under the law.
You don’t like that because you want to fan the flames of a race war. You and Obama. Well, based on what “the movement” plans for this weekend and at the GOP convention, it looks like you’ll get your wish. Not what you people want? Then you should check your rhetoric. Probably too late.
I should have provided a link to that Washington Post interactive database. It was first provided by bks on 8 July.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/national/police-shootings-2016/
The United States, in fact, almost suffered the fate of the Soviet Union after four score years of statehood in the War Between the States.
Lee chose the path of honor to fight for his country – Virginia.
I suppose one can consider Yelstin to have chosen his own country – Russia – over USSR.
Yugoslavia also disappeared almost after so many years.
USSR and Yugoslavia shared one feature – the existence of inassimilable Muslims that belonged to a different civilization and culture – something that India has shared with them as well.
I wonder if India will disintegrate sometime around 2040; another nuclear-armed state whose weapons are controlled by Hindus.
rjj
“into a sinecure” As a wife? I thought you had been married. Well, our mores have changed and theirs have not. pl
jonst
IMO you have the wrong end of this stick. The fault here lies in the attackers not the attacked. What I am saying is that these young men brought a perception with them that liberated women are whores, sluts, easy, whatever you want to call it. pl
DC
Ah, perhaps you are deceived because the jihadi medievalists adhere to an extreme minority view that infidel women taken in jihad are booty to be shared among the mujahideen brothers. Once theirs they consider these women to be justifiably enslaved and subject to sexual use. this is one of the many reasons why the vast majority of Muslims reject their views. Perhaps you don’t understand how the many different beliefs of what Islam is are created. pl
Thank you, sir, may I have another. Above, I admitted I am no expert on the meaning of the Koran in practice in MENA; I have read it and know some of what it says as an outsider (along with some interaction with immigrants here). Perhaps I should take at face value your assertion that a muslim male finds license to rape a whore/slut if he perceives her to look like a whore/slut, if and when he has the opportunity to do it. Perhaps the criminal aspect of such an act is lost on males from these cultures; to a Westerner like me, the disconnect between the sexual assault as an act, versus the sexual impulse on its own, would lead me to believe that something more must exist to create the assault as an act. At minimum, there must be an extreme lack of self control developed in these males, I think, in order for me to become convinced of your assertion. But then again, you think me a fool.
Stonevender,
It isn’t a great surprise to me. The study correctly (IMO) asserts it’s the condition of lack of public trust in their particular police force causing the problem. I see it very much as tinder in constant search of a spark myself. Police can not function in a non-police state without the benefit of the doubt from the public. It’s something of a “you don’t know what you’ve got ’till it’s gone” for them too. Both sides, really…
The good news is poor communities know better than anyone else they need the police and grant unlimited opportunities to earn back that trust.
Our Tee Vee pundits keep getting worse and worse. I would like Harvard to conduct a study on that, btw.
As though Muslim men never rape Muslim women? Because the Quran has said so?
Relying on the Quran to understand Muslim Civilization is akin to trying to understand the Western Diocletian Civilization on basis of Letters to Corinthians.
I said it was counterintuitive base partly on my experience with local boys who still call black men (mostly, not women) niggers. I know people who refer to Obama as a nigger. A number of these folks have relatives in law enforcement. Those relatives, I believe, tend to be on the police forces of smaller communities. Hence my curiosity about smaller cities vs. larger cities.
As to whether further research would be called for, I defer to the study’s author.
“The counterintuitive results provoked debate after the study was posted on Monday, mostly about the volume of police encounters and the scope of the data. Mr. Fryer emphasizes that the work is not the definitive analysis of police shootings, and that more data would be needed to understand the country as a whole. This work focused only on what happens once the police have stopped civilians, not on the risk of being stopped at all. Other research has shown that blacks are more likely to be stopped by the police.”
Two friends and I were stopped by the police when we were teenagers. Minors in possession, I think it was beer. The two cops pulled us over, had us get out of the car and show some I.D. In general their behavior was not much different from when issuing tickets. (I had some experience there too.) The only difference was they took us back to the station and called our parents. I did not come away with a visceral response to police. On the other hand if they had yelled at us, pushed us, slammed our heads into a wall and/or thrown us to the ground and handcuffed us I might have felt differently.
The WaPo published the result of their study of 984 killings by police for the year 2015. This study seems to show significant racial bias.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/final-tally-police-shot-and-killed-984-people-in-2015/2016/01/05/3ec7a404-b3c5-11e5-a76a-0b5145e8679a_story.html
stonevendor
You are Black? Where do you know these people, the ones who call people “nigger?” pl
toivoS
Well, the Post knows best. pl
DC
I have grown weary of trying to school people like you about actual groups and people. Are you are a follower of Frank Gaffney and company bent on a long term pogrom of Muslims in the US? In lieu of yet another wasted hour I offer you the response I made to a college classmate about Islam:
“I went to the article in the archive to look at it. The author, whom I have never heard of, does the public and the membership of the SFA a profound disservice by publishing such uninformed and ignorant material. Leviticus in the old testament requires the execution of homosexuals. How many Christians are in favor of that today? To take a particular verse from Islamic scripture and make a general judgement about Muslims and their beliefs is a very shaky thing to do just as doing the same thing based on discreet elements of Christian and Jewish scripture would be a shake thing to do.
Islam as a religion is law governed since it does not accept the idea that we are God’s children. It holds that we are merely God’s creatures and that our duty is to obey God’s law (shariah) as we understand it. To that end the obsession of the Muslims has always been to attempt to establish what that law is. Their scholars seek to know that on the basis of what they call the “Roots of the Law,” a number of religious fields of study that include; scripture (Qur’an), tradition (hadith – the recorded legends of the early practices of the prophet and the Islamic community). There are many collections of such traditions and they vary widely. Every Islamic scholar has his favorite collection of these. Case law (fiqh). Based on past law cases that were based on scripture and tradition. There is a huge body of case law that varies enormously according to which traditions are accepted by particular scholars or groups of scholars, Analogy – (qiyas) by this process new legal opinions are created by reasoning from old legal opinions. New thinking (ijtihad) this is innovative thought among scholars with regard to the evolving meaning of scripture and tradition. This “root” has not been used among Sunni Muslims since the 8th Century AD when their scholars decided that all new thinking had been exhausted as a possibility. Shia Muslims do not accept that idea and ijtihad continues to be one of the “roots” for them. Based on these sources, individuals or groups of scholars like the Shia Hawza “colleges” at Najaf in Iraq and Qom in Iran or the Sunni equivalents at the Al-Azhar mosque in Egypt and the Zeituna mosque at Tunis decide what is Shariah bit because there is no central authority much smaller groups of Muslims like IS and AQ make different judgement that are often irreconcilable to the views of the larger groups
As I said in my message to John —–, Islam is a religion of laymen. There are no priests, no hierarchy (no pope), no bishops. Islam is more like Christian evangelical groups that have no chain of command than it is like Catholicism (my faith) in that there is no central authority for defining Islamic law. As a result there are many, many different conceptions of what Shariah law is and what it requires of Muslims. As I wrote there are minority communities in Islam that believe that religion requires unending savage war against all those, Muslim or not who disagree with them. The great majority of Muslims worldwide and most especially in the US do not share that view.
IS, AQ, Nusra and many of the groups that the Obama administration has been supporting against the minority based (including Christian) government of Syria are inherently enemies of the West and the US and should be destroyed. They should be destroyed and Americans of Muslim faith who actively side with the jihadis against our traditions should be destroyed as well.
This does not mean that anyone’s conception of shariah law as a religious abstraction is a threat to US constitutional government . Does someone expect a coup d’etat by US Muslims against the US government? Does someone expect a mass conversion of Americans to Islam? Is it not understood that the US Constitution forbids the establishment of an official religion and therefore of the adoption anywhere of religious law of any kind?
I have done my best to explain the truth about this.” pl
“Not only is there no blue conspiracy to kill blacks, but there is no black conspiracy to kill cops.”
Poor TTG, locked inside his internal Narrative, erected upon the as of yet undisclosed personal tale that justifies his constant blindness towards black excesses. Sometimes it seems that TTG’s thoughts come straight from the mind of Ta-Nehisi Coates, who, and that would be “certainly counter intuitive” to some of you, is a complete imbecile.
In my view, what is lacking in the analysis about the “bad choices with even more bad consequences” that are seeming to crop up in american law enforcement is the effect of unprepared people being promoted for the sake of diversity, thus leading to the acceptance of even more inadequate and unprepared people for positions where contact with hostile, or more probably very reckless subjects would be frequent.
Harry,
Crime is up in NY and LA.
There are more shootings in black neighborhoods because blacks are more criminally inclined.
Not directed at you, but this is not rocket science.
TTG,
“there is no black conspiracy to kill cops”
If you mean that there’s no interconnected network of Black HQ under Church’s Chicken, then yeah.
If you mean that blacks are not being ginned up by the DNC to “motivate the vote” and incidentally its becoming more dangerous for law enforcement out there, then you’re wrong.
Can anyone comment on the significance of the “ambush” moniker in MSM coverage of Dallas? Was seemingly used from the start, standardized, “AMBUSH” in big letters and repeated as much as possible. Why? Overthinking on my part perhaps
Toivo,
Cops killing blacks cause blacks tend to be more violent and prone to criminal acts isn’t “racial bias” in the sense you mean.
Anonymous,
The now sainted DPD chief had a son who was a cop killer, shot by police, and given a police escort at his funeral.
So yeah, there’s something there.
I do not think the issue is the mix of races but rather the cultural ways of those races.
In the sense of race obsessed with in the United States, Turkey is a multi-racial state. But the issue there is not the race of Kurds or the various races that are all called Turk, rather political and cultural.
In my opinion, Euro-Americans and African-Americans have more in common than not; their styles are different but not their substance.
This point was enforced for me in my interactions with Africans; they do not think of themselves primarily through race – but rather tribe, language and country.
I think race is a Western obsession.
We used to have Nepotism & Cronyism so now we got Diversity. Guess a good guy can never get a break.if diversity brought us the Chief in Dallas then something worked right.
Anonymous,
The facts blow both conspiracies out of the water. Felonious killings of police officers have been on a downward trend since the 70s, although this year is trending up. And those killings are perpetrated about evenly by whites, blacks and Hispanics. But myths die hard. If you’re so sure of the coming race war, you best high tail it to your backyard bunker, crapping in a plastic bag while you await the arrival of the armed black hordes. You may want to take a case of those plastic bags because you’ll be waiting a long time.
Your observation fits with my suspicion about the surge and decline in crime rates (see below for my post in response to the article). Granted, it is more of a speculation on my part as of yet, rather than anything backed up by evidence.
In 1970s, there was an upturn in violence against police, especially among African Americans, and the response by the police was to withdraw from the troubled neighborhoods where they were not welcome. The consequence was the crime wave of 1980s, especially severe in areas with large minority populations, and the concomitant social and economic devastation. So the police returns to these neighborhoods in 1990s, engages in a more active policing, and, whether we like or it not, vast majority of civilians shot by cops are potentially dangerous criminals. (although misuse and abuse of power, no doubt, is not uncommon, it would be silly to tar every cop with that brush.) In other words, many of the unfortunate incidents of which the media has been fixated on is the direct consequence of the active policing that has helped save lives that may have been lost in black on black crime and helped rejuvenate, even if not to a satisfactory extent, the economy of these neighborhoods.
So, we have a bit of paradox: black lives matter, except when it is other blacks who are taking it? It is unfortunate, if indeed it is the case, that increases frequency of unpleasant interactions between cops and African American civilians is the consequence of the reduced black-on-black crime rates. But to simply condemn police violence unconditionally is irresponsible and dangerous.
Stonevendor,
The dear professor and the NYT also studiously avoid the data of NON-police shootings because that data says Hispanics are white and even with that very conscious bias reflects very badly on blacks. Perhaps a certain demographic should act like the Americans that don’t shoot other people.
TTG,
Not a complaint, just an observation of yet other needless deaths.
The study will probably be expanded and my guess is the results will be pretty similar for reasons the author suggests: use of excessive force isn’t usually investigated/punished and cops are as loathe as anyone else to take a life. That said, here in NYC, it’s traditionally been less about lethal use of force than use of excessive force in minority communities. That still gives BLM and ACLU a reason to be.
Nailed it, Colonel. Sexual deprivation–I would add the difficulties faced even being alone with women, be they western or Arab, further add to their sexual deprivation.
Many Arab men–pious or not–will refer to women, in English and in Arabic, as “whores” “bitches” “sluts” etc… very casually and as a matter of course. They regularly visit the “super night clubs” of Arab capitals to cavort with prostitutes, which they view in the same manner. USB sticks loaded with terabytes of pornography (generally of the western high production value variety) are freely exchanged in Arab universities amongst Arab students as something of a past time.
To put them in a western city, with or without an understanding of western culture, is like loosing children in a candy store without supervision behind the counter. It was bound to happen. The Europeans had to have known this would be an issue.
There are some problems with that study – http://www.vox.com/2016/7/11/12148452/police-shootings-racism-study
One single study is just part of the picture.
sinecure advertised as happily-ever-after-ish (defined variously) or else meal ticket with no heavy lifting plus gratification of the hearts desire for white goods, small appliances, and other invidiosities.
Moral and economic orders overlap.
Masterless Man started out as disreputable, rogue, with limited personhood.
Blithered. Was thinking on your comment about SJWs and their spawn – this new conformity versus the old conformity.
Was married. My own intensely not-a-pleasant-person had said “whatever you do, do not marry until you get through medical school and can support yourself.” I applied his excellent (and clearly benevolent !!!) advice to my second marriage. Did not go to medical school.
edit: who did NOT see the benefits.
All,
Humans are coded pretty much the same. The superficial differences are due to how close to the equator our ancestors were. There are cultural difference; how people interact and their beliefs. All humans speak. Some are educated to read and write and can learn from the writers who lived before them. Humans evolved in tribes of about a hundred or so people. We are hard wired to distrust outsiders. The immigration debate is a classic case of the propaganda not working anymore. Corporations and their think tanks push two great themes; free movement of people and money and flushing government down the toilet. More immigrants mean a lower cost of labor. This is conflicted with the liberal notion that mankind should just get along together. Greed is the reason that Western borders have not been closed and the endless wars continue. Young men displaced by war are thrown into a strange world of enemies to run wild.
The current ruling ideology has gotten so insane that Hillary Clinton is reported to be vetting retired Adm. James Stavridis to be her Vice President. This means she is intending to fight a war with Russia.
If there are Gods, mankind will be extraordinarily lucky after the nuclear holocaust if a few tribes remain in Andes to start out all over to build a new Inca civilization. More likely, mankind will create a new Mars closer to the Sun with artifacts.
a 17 year old negro buck
This is ugly.
What you describe as “left” as Liberal at best (Whigs) and at worst neoliberals. Left means socialists like Eugene Debbs or in Belgium/Flanders Priest Daens (yes a Catholic priest as a leftist) http://www.english-subtitles.club/movies/1992-daens.html
I agree with you that the “Whigs” have lost their moral compass as well as their ability to market their “values” but lets not call them Leftists, that would be an insult to the latter. And also we should realize that the Cold War is dead. There isn’t an adversary that needs to hid behind a “benign ideology” to project it’s power, the world has moved on.
Regarding the superiority of the Germans and their women’s right, I only have to say that the only reason why one should focus on opposing the sexual deviations of the refugees, would be to assure that the German women are raped by their own men in stead of foreign men. This statement is understandable and closer to truth as opposed to approach the problem from an orientalist point of view.
To paraphrase an Prof. Abu Khalil’s repost: Saturday, July 09, 2016
Germany and women’s rights: when will Arab armies invade to liberate German women alas
“Under that law, the threshold for evidence required to press rape charges is so high that only one in 10 rapes is reported, the Justice Ministry said. Of those cases that do proceed to court, 8 percent lead to a conviction. Germany, which did not criminalize marital rape until 1997, has one of the worst records in Europe for protecting its women from sexual violence, said Brendan Wynne, a spokesman for Equality Now, an international rights organization that lobbies for better protection for women and girls.” http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/08/world/europe/germany-rape-law.html?ref=todayspaper
Mr. Lang,
What do you make of Michael Flynn, in the following regard?
I have seen him espouse “economic determinism”. He believes the root problem in the Muslim world is “economic” in nature. He proposes mass re-education & jobs programs as a solution. Presumably, this would come at U.S. expense.
I suppose his saving grace is that he also seems to condemn past interventions. Though his recent NY Post op-ed made it seem like he supports new ones.
—
BTW, I believe there is an error in one of your past posts. I was searching for Flynn’s name & this old article popped up:
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2010/06/the-surge-of-ideas-michael-flynn.html
In that post, you are under the impression that the author is Lt. Gen. Flynn. Whereas the author is actually a thinktank researcher who shares the same name. That researcher’s profile can be viewed here:
https://www.globaldetentionproject.org/michael-flynn
Best,
Paul
To the Left, Muslims are higher than women on their totem pole of victimhood.
Paul Escobar
In this case the error appears to be attributable to Jeff Stein who was quoting an article by Col.Charles Flynn, General Flynn’s brother. As for Michael Flynn I do not think he knows much about the Islamic World. He made his reputation as the head targeteer for MCChrystal. That job did not require any particular depth in re the Muslims. It is a tempting and facile notion to believe that the fanatic inclinations of those who join jihadi groups is economically determined and perhaps it is in a cosmic sense as perhaps all things are a function of the need to survive in a world where although man does not live by bread alone, he still has to eat until he puts on his suicide vest. When I ran a private foundation in the ME we tried vocational training, micro-credit lending, agricultural training and credits, the usual do-gooder stuff. More bread did not seem to change people’s bbasic attitudes. pl
As someone scientifically trained, I go by empirical evidence so here’s a great experiment,test, & study replicated: How would you do on this VR-like test of shooting range where photos of unarmed or armed whites & blacks pop up before you
&
you decide to shoot or ‘don’t shoot’? (some are unarmed civilians while others are armed suspects.. similar shooting range tests of unarmed & armed targets are used to train military
&
anti-terrorist hostage rescue missions), testing whether you correctly shoot only the armed suspects instead of unarmed civilians..
The results: FAIL for most .. Vast majority of both police & regular community members are significantly quicker to shoot unarmed blacks than whites..
and
take longer to press the ‘don’t shoot’ button if they correctly press don’t shoot
from linked study published in credible Journal of Personality & Social Psychology: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/11/science-of-racism-prejudice
See chart near bottom
or
Notice chart here
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154346878271804&set=p.10154346878271804&type=3&theater
how
much quicker both police & community members are to shoot unarmed blacks than whites in this experiment/study by independent university –pictures pop up on screen of whites or blacks
&
you’re given the choice to press ‘shoot’ or ‘don’t shoot’, measuring how fast your press ‘shoot’ trigger or press ‘don’t shoot’
Most cops & community members both are quicker to press ‘shoot unarmed blacks & take longer to press ‘don’t shoot’ on unarmed blacks
US culture is trigger happy, & even more trigger happy vs. blacks
It’s US culture of authoritarian personality types & resorting to violence & force as the 1st goto response:
Personality studies of 2+ million people & police forces show that authoritarians personality types are found at higher rates among police as well as rightwing:
Authoritarian personality-type politician’s goto response: “Do as I say or I will bomb, shoot, & kill you” as most US politicians say like McCain, Hilary, & most Republican politicians say
Authoritarian parents say: “Do as I say or I will spank/beat you”
Authoritarian police: “Do as I say or I will shoot you”
Authoritarian personality types believe in physical punishment & force in exercising their authority,
following authority (they are the authority or identify with the authority as their in-group tribe),
&
are very tribal with strong support of members of their same tribe
but
little empathy nor sympathy for those not in their tribe, out-group –ie, not of the same ethnic group or nationality
Col.,
The idea that police are biased against blacks in every use of force except lethal force seems counterintuitive. Perceptions aside, the data used by the study (based on voluntary participation by 10 major police departments), runs counter to the more comprehensive data gathered by both the Washington Post and Guardian for 2015.
I’d remember what Disraeli had to say about statistics.
Amir
It would have been convenient if you had said who you were addressing. You have your definitions of what Left and Right mean and I have mine. In the US these tendencies have usually meant tendencies closer to the center than in Europe and I am American. As to the rest of your comment I have known many Catholic priests who were Leftists. I consider Pope Francis to be a Leftist. He should be such as the Vicar of Christ. I am trying to argue against a resumption of the Cold War but I fear that is a lost causa as the US seems to prefer to have Russia as enemy rather give up the idea of world hegemony. pl
In every large group, there will always be a percentage that are ‘bad apples’ or ‘authoritarian’ personality types.
As Colonel Lang said, culture has a huge play .. Authoritarian culture dominates the US in foreign policy when Authoritarian neocons say, “Do as I say or I will bomb & shoot you” (or regime-change you via proxy army will shell or shoot you)
Authoritarian parents say, “Do as I say or I will spank or beat you”
Authoritarian police say, “Do as I say or I will shoot or beat you”
For Authoritarian personality types (hundreds of studies done on this), the pecking order & obeying the pecking order is tantamount.. Authoritarians are very tribal & support their tribe & authority figure regardless.. and unsympathetic towards those outside the tribe
More studies have shown that when police are militarized & behave as a occupying military force in hostile occupied territory leads to a trigger happy, ‘us vs. them’ mentality ..
the expanded Drug War especially against weed since the 1960s especiallly made it worse
Portugal & Netherlands saw signficant drops in all crime, violent crime, & drops in drug use after they decriminalized weed (Netherlands) or legalized drugs (Portugal)
Even Cali & Colorado saw drops of 20% in youth crime & 2.2% overall crime & 9.5% drop in property crime just 1 yr after medical weed was decriminalized & weed legalized in Colorado
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/12/upshot/surprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootings.html
Excerpt from the study Harvard study most people seem to be forgetting:
“Even when the police said that civilians were COMPLIANT, blacks experienced more force.”
“In New York City, blacks stopped by the police were about 17 percent more likely to experience use of force, according to stop-and-frisk records kept between 2003 and 2013. (In the later year, a judge ruled that the tactic as employed then was unconstitutional.)
Use of Force in Stops in New York City
Based on stop-and-frisk records from 2003 to 2013.
MORE LIKELY FOR BLACKS
+17% pushed into wall
+18% handcuffed (excludes arrests)
+16% weapon drawn
+19% pushed to ground
+18% gun pointed
+24% pepper spray,
+25% baton
That gap, adjusted for suspect behavior and other factors, was surprisingly consistent across various levels of force.
Black suspects were 18 percent more likely to be pushed up against a wall,
16 percent more likely to be handcuffed without being arrested and 18 percent more likely to be pushed to the ground.
Even when the police said that civilians were COMPLIANT, blacks experienced more force.”
Freudenzchade
thanks for illustrating my point about people unwilling to give up their meme or interest driven “beliefs.” pl
JiuJitsuMMA
The question is not whether police or white people are more emotionally inclined to shoot blacks. The question is whether or not they actually do that. Like Schadenfreude you are fighting the data to protect your desired prejudice against whites and cops. pl
I was actually surprised that Saudi Arabia Prince Nayef founded a deradicalization program where the Saudi gov rehabilitiates jihadists with deradicalization counter-programming of counseling refuting jihadist teachings & then upon graduation gives them a decent job, gives an apartment, & even finds a wife for them (pays even for the wedding)
& they have a 87%-90% success rate in rehabing them
–ie, give them a reason to live to for instead of to die for (ie, decent job/income, love/family connections, home, etc) for
instead of just dying on a battlefield as martyrs
However, 13% to 10% are total fanatics immune to any rehab (ie, the San Bernidino shooter had a decent job, daughter, family but total religious fanatic) & only destruction of them is the answer
CBS report: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/saudi-reform-center-for-jihadists-offers-alternatives-to-extremists/
More scholarly details, with data points http://www.mei.edu/content/deradicalization-programs-saudi-arabia-case-study
VV
“This means she is intending to fight a war with Russia.” I think that is true to the extent that she still thinks clearly about anything. Her attack on Sid Blumenthal’s son indicates to me that she is largely gone in the head. pl
Thank you for this reply which I enjoyed reading and was enlightened by (by which I was enlightened?).
HankP
I’ll reserve space for you at the Freudenschase, jiujitspanda study group. pl
Enormously worthwhile to bring up the birth of Pakistan, which I had mentally misplaced. The British may or may not have done the “right thing” but history shows the unrelenting hostility between India and Pakistan and the United States showing up on the same side it is today: dutifully supporting Pakistan.
Col.,
(Having contributed to research and datasets published by the NBER, I’m familiar with data and statistics.)
Respectfully,
The study you cite comes to some preliminary conclusions: 1. That police apply non-lethal force 50% more often against blacks and Hispanics than others and 2. the same is not true of officer-involved shootings (which is a subset of lethal force). That is not my “meme” or interest driven belief, but rather the fruits of the study you cite. I simply observed that the conclusion seemed counterintuitive, i.e. that both 1 & 2 should be true at the same time.
When confronted with a counterintuitive result, you question the sources and methods. If it still holds, you have somethings interesting, such as the author’s conclusion that the cost (personally, professionally, financially) of a shooting are so much greater than those of other applied force, that they dissuade officers from shooting.
I looked at the sources of data and found them suspect, not because I don’t like the result, but because self selection bias results in a sample with nonprobability sampling. Further, other respectable efforts have yielded more comprehensive data without the sampling problems, and yield very different results.
As a result, I discard the conclusions of this working paper in their entirety. What’s the right answer? No idea.
No sweat, Fred. That’s the way I took it. Pretty sad commentary when the reporting can’t keep up with the killings.
Tyler,
Are the blacks being ginned up by the DNC to motivate the vote? Hell, yes. They’re doing the same for the Hispanic vote. Trump will gin up the white vote in the same way… through exaggeration, lies and fear mongering. It’s the American way of doing politics.
Since the 70s it’s become less dangerous for law enforcement, but there is an uptick this year that’s still far below what it’s been in the past. I did hear that a plot to kill cops was broken up today in Baton Rouge.
Amir
“This statement is understandable and closer to truth as opposed to approach the problem from an orientalist point of view.” If this is directed at me you are exactly correct. I confess to thinking that the content of Islamicate civilization matters. At least you did not accuse me of having a social sciences point of view. pl
in regards to culture & assimilation, European & Asian immigrants easily adopt Western secular values because Asian culture is secular ..Buddhist philosphy is “Live & let live”.. so is Confucist philosophy that dominates Chinese, Japanese & Korean culture is also secular ..
there is NO theocratic Sharia law nor theocratic 10 Commandments either there ..
Soviet Union & China were atheistic (their constitutions actually guarantees freedom of religion but both have at times supported or persecuted religions that they saw as a threat to the gov)
The problem is that SOME (but not all) Muslim countries in the Middle East have a theocratic Sharia law gov that makes literal Wahhabist interpertations of the Quran as law ..
see Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, UAE/Dubai, Qatar, etc ..and Saudi Arabia spends about $20 billion/yr to spread it’s literal Wahhabist theocratic Sharia law everywhere, turning once moderate Sufi other moderate sects in
Chechya,Dagestan,
Malaysia, Indonesia,
Thailand, Cambodia, Phillipines, .. where Wahhabist theocratic separatists have pushed for their own theocratic separatist Sharia law state by bombing & beheading Buddhist monks & 7 to 12 yr old school girls in Asia
The Pew Group (they along with Gallup are the most credible survey groups) of 10,000+ Muslims showed that most Muslims in Russia, Europe, & Asia are moderate & don’t favor theocratic Sharia law like stoning women to death for sex outside of marriage/adultery
but
majority of Muslims in Middle East do, 80% to 89% of Muslims in Egypt, Palestine, & near EAst in Pakistan, Afghan! believe in stoning to death women for sex outside of marriage/adultery theocratic Sharia law ..that is NOT compatible with Western or Asian secular values
As you know in such Middle East Sharia law theocratic societies, men & women are segerated, there is no dating, it’s mostly arranged marriages, any & all pictures of men/women kissing or hugging in public is illegal, all porn or even showing women not covering most of their body is illegal..
thus, many of the theocratic Sharia law males are all pent up sexually frustrated, have no idea how to interact with women, & view any women not covered up as ‘sluts’ or ‘whores’ just asking for it according to surveys & interviews
http://www.pewforum.org/2013/04/30/the-worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-beliefs-about-sharia/
this does NOT apply to the moderate Muslims who do NOT believe in theocratic Sharia who grow up in mostly secular Muslim countries such as Europe, Asia or in Middle East of Turkey or Syria
This study which shows citizens and cops are more hesitant to pull the trigger on a black than a white is more accurate than the push-button type because it uses realistic HD video and infrared guns, therefor being more realistic.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jan/5/police-officers-more-hesitant-to-shoot-black-suspe/
Studs Terkel interviewed this black cop in 1974 for his book “Working.”. This is an excerpt”
“Certain units in the task force have developed a science around stopping your automobile. These men know it’s impossible to drive three blocks without committing a traffic violation. We’ve got so many rules on the books. These police officers use these things to get points and also hustle for money. The traffic law is a fat book. He knows if you don’t have two lights on your license plate, that’s a violation. If you have a crack in your windshield, that’s a violation. If your muffler’s dragging, that’s a violation. He knows all these little things….
So if they stop the average black driver, in their mind the likelihood of finding five or six violations out of a hundred cars is highly possible…. After you’ve stopped a thousand, you’ve got 950 people who are very pissed off, 950 who might have been just average citizens, not doing anything wrong — teachers, doctors, lawyers, working people. The police don’t care. Black folks don’t have a voice to complain. Consequently, they continue to be victims of shadowy, improper, overburdened police service. Traffic is the big entree.”
https://medium.com/@tonyszhou/renaultrobinson-955e1036c233#.wxtxp1e7s
The best scholar on this subject of policing, minorities, crime, etc., is Heather MacDonald at the Manhattan Institute. She has researched this area thoroughly and her most recent book, “The War on Cops”, is mandatory reading.
While MacDonald doesn’t talk about this, there is a very interesting and encouraging trend that in areas where blacks have been displaced by Central/South American Hispanics (e.g., East Palo Alto), crime has plummeted to levels equivalent to predominantly white areas. Some people posit that liberals have a secret program to mitigate black racial tension/danger through displacement by Hispanics. Which is ironic, because a large percentage of these non-Afro Hispanics are traditional and have two-parent homes, go to church, etc.
Respectfully, Colonel, I have no prejudice against whites (since half my family is white, full of mixed white-Asian intermarriages & children, my wife is white, so are almost all my friends & coworkers in IT are white) .. as a scientist, the scientific explaination is that most people & cops are Pavlovian biochemical machines
If most cop’s interactions with blacks (or homeless, or poor, whomever) is negative, if most of whom they deal with are suspects of breaking laws, arresting, etc –ie, they see mostly the negatives in the population, they will come to expect & believe negative things about blacks like any Pavlovian condition
This applies towards any group.. if blacks or other groups mostly interactions are negative of having physical force used on them even if compliant or innocent, then they will have antipathy towards cops or whites
The reverse is that if most interactions are positive, they come to like & respect those same groups
That’s why the military is so good at getting rid of such negatives..
psychology studies & reality shows that when you force people to team up together to work towards a common goal such as a varsity sports team to win, a class project or other team collaborative effort to win & do well ..and if someone from an out-group helps you (such as a ‘other’-ethnic gruop doctor helping or healing you or a loved one), mutual respect & liking grows –it’s very hard to dislike someone who just helped you win, or saved your life or a loved one’s life .. greater liking & cooperation ensues
That’s why the military & many corps do so many team building exercises
It’s also why the military integrated successfully under President Truman’s order in 1948 to desegegrate the military despite objections by the vast majority of the military & US population at the time
ie, not just integration.. but positive interactions, team-building, & other Pavlovian responses to build mutual liking, cooperation, & trust
There are some doubts on the veracity if the NYT reporting and on the study:
http://theinfluence.org/three-problems-with-how-the-ny-times-highlights-a-non-peer-reviewed-study-allegedly-showing-no-racial-bias-in-police-shootings/
“Three Problems With How the NY Times Highlights a Non-Peer Reviewed Study Allegedly Showing No Racial Bias in Police Shootings”
/quote/
The article’s authors, Quoctrung Bui and Amanda Cox, quote Roland G. Fryer Jr., a Harvard economics professor and the study’s author, who says: “It is the most surprising result of my career.”
But once you look at the context of data cited by the Times, it’s not so much the “evidence” (contested here) that’s surprising, as the way the Times chooses to frame it. Here’s why.
…
First: The Times article focuses on a particular section of the study that considered police bias in shootings of people once they were stopped. That is, it does not take into account racial bias in who gets stopped by police. And it neglects to mention what would seem to be an extremely relevant number from the study itself.
…
Second: The study relied on reports filled out by police officers from three states in a set of police departments actually willing to share those reports. Official government data on police shootings doesn’t exist. So some questions immediately emerge: Are police self-reports to be taken at face value? And which police departments, with what kinds of data, would choose to make their reports public?
…
Third: The study is not peer-reviewed. It’s no crime to make a study public before it’s peer reviewed. However, it’s a notable decision on the part of The New York Times to: (a) give a national platform to such a paper at such a time, (b) not explicitly mention that it’s not peer reviewed, and (c) not note the study’s limitations closer to the top of the article.
/endquote/
ie, I’m Asian & work in IT who’s experiences with whites is positive & I’m married to a blonde, blue-eyed ex-model (almost everyone I work with & went to university with are white or Asian) & my extended family is also white so no prejudices against whites (half my Asian brothers & cousins are also married to whites)
Cop interactions have always been positive or neutral, they never used force on me & have been mostly polite, never aggressive. Small town cops were friendly & grew up having family friends on police force so no prejudices there
However, I do have some friends (both white & black) who have said they had negative experiences with cops (1 coworker was white, lost his job, when he lost his apartment, temporarily homeless for a week, went to sleep on a park bench,
he was woken up & beaten up so badly by a cop that his broken bones required ambulance ride & trip to hospital back in the 1990s.. he reported it but the police just laughed in his face ..
another friend of a friend was shot to death when he was disoriented on his own property standing in his garden yard i, holding small pruning scissors (he was high on drugs), he standing still, not advancing but 2 cops shot him when he didn’t put down the scissors .. a taser would have worked better if they wanted to subdue him
another black friend was pushed & pulled over for DWB, driving while black)
This makes me think that while most cops aren’t violent prone, a portion are .. basically, some are authoritarian personality types or ‘bad apple’s in every bunch’
Wow, thanks for the extra data points ..
the 2nd link at medium says it best for a solution: “. We must have a system where they[police] get points for helping people rather than hurting them.” [police have a quota or monthly target for certian number of tickets, arrests, etc to be given out which goes on their record for performance reviews/promotions]
as
well as some of the bigotry of SOME (but NOT all] police from an insider’s viewpoint
Ahem… the “superficial differences” may still matter quite a lot:
https://westhunt.wordpress.com/2016/07/09/our-dumb-world/
Fred
Those two dead cops were transferring a prisoner. Another cop, or guard or whatever, shot the prisoner dead. Those cops screwed up. Female, out of shape? Good question. Thank you.
Col. Lang –
What I learned in my scientific training is that the results that tell you exactly what you want to hear are the ones that you should question the most.
Babak – Armenians are a part of your wonderful multi-cultural Turkey? Armenians still hate the Turks to this day because of what was done to them by the Turks 100 years ago and before.
HankP
That’s interesting. A lifetime of intelligence work taught me the same thing. pl
jiujitsumma
When I was teaching Arabic language and literature at West Point I shared an office one year with the two officers who taught Chinese, etc. One was an Anglo who had been educated at Stanford and the other was Chinese. The two of them were fascinated by the essential difference between Islamicate civilization and that of China. That difference was exactly as you write. The Far East is largely dominated by what is a secular view of life and the Islamic culture continent is obsessed with God. It always has been. Whether you are talking about Judaism, emergent Christianity, Bahai or Islam the multi branched and massive tree, it is always the same. God sits in the middle of the situation and that shows no sign of changing any time soon. Evolutionary change may come to that, but IMO not any time soon. That is an illusion? Underneath are the real factors? Well, keep looking and scribbling. As for your point with regard to Shariah Law states as opposed to non-shariah law states, this is not a moiety. The States like Egypt that supposedly have non-Shariah law systems all have provisions in their systems that protect the status of shariah, whatever the dominant group there think that is, and insure that no legal action can be taken, no law can be passed that violates Shariah. pl
Please do not mis-state my words: I stated Turkey was multi-racial and not multi-cultural.
There never ever will be an equivalent of Rachel Corey among non-Americans.
The Underwear Bomber, the San Bernardino terrorists, and at least one of the terrorists on the attack in Bangladesh restaurant were not materially deprived.
All,
This has made me weary. I’m going to retreat to my craft room to make jewelry to clear my head but I wanted to post this well article that I agree with.
Some years back John Whitehead is NOT someone I would site. Times have changed.
The latest shootings—in Texas, Minnesota, Louisiana, Illinois, New York, Missouri and every other state in the nation—are symptomatic of a psychotic outbreak by a nation that has been waging a war against its own citizens for too long.
We have long since passed the stage at which a government of wolves would give rise to a nation of sheep. As I point out in my book Battlefield America: The War on the American People, what we now have is a government of psychopaths that is actively breeding a nation of psychopathic killers.
We’re getting distracted, people.
Instead of focusing our ire on the architects of the American police state, who are responsible for turning the streets into mini-war zones, we’re getting distracted by the many voices eager to play the blame game by pointing their fingers at someone else.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article45088.htm
Again, in the interest of the Rectification of Names, may I suggest using “Non-Observant” in lieu of “Moderate”?
The designation “Moderate Muslim” or “Moderate Islam” means nothing to a Muslim, be he in US or in Iran; but “Non-Observant” can readily be understood – in Arabic: متدین
Sanctions against women engaging in sex outside of legal structures of marriage in the Far East was always severe: execution – and were carried out in Japan, China, Korea – the traditional Sinic Civilization was not one of sexual license. It is only recently that has changed.
From the Traditional Muslim point of view, the Far Eastern people are still living in the Age of Darkness – جاهلیه – devoid of the Light of Revelations, be that be one brought by Jesus or brought by Mohammad. That is why they so easily feed people into this or that endeavor for the sake of the Collective.
It is this absence of Light that is mistaken for secularism among the Far Easterners – they are not secular in the Western sense – which is still dimly illuminated by the Light brought forth by Jesus the Blessed Son of Mary.
Muslim attachment to their religion is an unalterable feature of our world; part of that is their attachment to Religious Law which sanctifies everything they do.
Just imagine yourself in a situation that you go about your daily live and all that you do is an expression of Divine Order and in Conformance to Divine Will.
I understand that you may not be able to grasp what I am saying and not be able to make that mental exercise; but there are Christians in the West, some of whom I have known, that understand this. They also know that the West cannot go back to such a world but that does not make the vision of such a Divinely Blessed World less attractive.
Neither the Far Easterners nor the Near Easterners have ever experienced any prolong period of the Rule of Law. Muslims wish to experience the Rule of Law – specially the Divine Law. Now, some of that Law may be terrible, but it is the Law and its better to have Law than not to have one.
If one wishes to engages Muslims in constructive dialogue about Sharia and not the usual harangue, one, I think, could start by slavery. Slavery is endorsed in Sharia but not practiced. One could begin a discussion about the desirability of change there.
I think from the time that Zoroaster discovered the deep moral structure of the Universe until the present time, Western Asia and Western Eurasia (and now all of Americas) has been dominated by the One God who, as you state, sits in the middle of all of this.
I recall a question that this Chinese guy asked me: “Why do you care so much about God?”
The question was not meant in a personal manner – it was asked generically. And my answer was that because it is the foundation of our civilization and culture.
Women always enjoyed more liberty in Northern Europe and also more power. They could attend tribal councils and at times they could vote. This is to be contrasted with the traditional treatment of women in Southern Europe as well as in Near East during Modern times as well as Classical Times.
Yup, a Lesbian Muslim woman can attend any university she desires in US and get a professorship too.
You are drawing the wrong conclusion from your examples: many people do well in structured or highly-structured environments which limits their freedom of action and choice.
That is why there are so many prisoners who are better off in prisons since they can function well in an environment that their every action is prescribed for them.
US is a country permeated by the idea of Freedom and Liberty as unalloyed metaphysical Good/Excellence. In such an environment as US, or UK, it is difficult to get a hearing for the proposition that there are many that cannot handle their own Freedom; just like so many cannot handle alcohol or drugs.
So, short summary, the Abrahamic religions are absolutely insane and the inmates are running the asylum.
Welcome to the “Spiritual Century” (a Malraux wording)
http://www.linternaute.com/citation/3360/le-xxieme-siecle-sera-spirituel-ou-ne-sera-pas—-andre-malraux/
You have no idea or experience of living in a police state. I do not think it is useful to engage in hyperbole.
To beat a path to normalcy and away from pathology there are 2 steps that could be taken:
1- Censor the violence in the broadcast programming – crime will go down.
2- Stop smoking dope and encouraging the drug culture.
No – you are expressing a verboten attitude! All multiculturism is good, by decree. If you don’t think so you are a racist, and speaking for “dark forces in society”. All cultures have equal value and “Swedes are barbarians” and “owe everything to immigrants.”
Further, any rapist sentences to expulsion from Sweden will not be sent to Iran (where many afghanis now come from) since the death penalty is practiced there (I am sure an exception would have been made for Assange). The Swedish supreme court recently rules that police is not allowed to use force to expel visa rejected immigrants.
Request permission to bring Tyler with me for a shape up tour of Sweden, sir?!
Their reaction to Muslim treatment of women is amusing (in a train wreck sort of way): it is just not talked about! It is a huge blind spot! Man spreading on the subway: OK. Bathrooms for all kinds of sexual deviations: OK. Man lactating: OK. Raising kids without gender roles: absolutely.
Young Muslim girls being thrown of balconies if they refuse to marry their uncle: does not exist, lalala!
Later in life I figured out that this historical fact is why my long term relationships always ended up being with men of northern European descent, and why I eventually married a man with that ancestry.
When I was young, as a typical liberal American (of Danish descent), I believed that ancestry didn’t matter because we were all equal (sigh… so naive was I). However a combination of personal experience and study eventually taught me that it can be an important factor in many subconscious ways.
I’ll be guilty of some degree of hobby-horsing, so I apologize in advance.
I’ve had an idea similar to BM’s “Diocletian divide” idea about how the “West” and the “East” are different (and my idea, in turn, borrow liberally from Fr. Stan Jaki’s ideas about the linkage between science and Christianity). The “West” believes in some externally defined “truth” that exists independently of humans, whether Divine or otherwise. One might say that the Diocletian Divide subdivides the West into two subgroups as well: those to the west that believe that truth manifests itself in “data” (the heir of ancient Greek empirical thinking) and those who to the east that the “truth” overrides the data. Perhaps the line is not as cleanly defined as one might like, but the consequence is that, the Western Diocletian thinking gave us people like Galileo who would say that our understanding of the Truth should be modified in light of data, while the Eastern Diocletian thinking gives us people who think that dissenters from the Truth should be burned.
I don’t think Asians, especially East Asians, are especially “tolerant” or especially “secular,” at least the way these terms are usually defined. What does prevail is that they don’t really believe in a single, clearly defined truth, at least for the most part. Most Japanese are simultaneously adherents to Shintoism and Buddhism, although very few are really “religious.” Adding up adherents of different faiths from surveys of religion in South Korea usually produce more than 100% because many people claim membership in multiple religions and so forth. In this environment, both forms of Westerners are unwelcome: those who believe in some kind of absolute, exclusive truth will be repressed. This may include the religious exclusivists (Christians in China and Korea were repressed not so much because they were Christians but because they would not observe Confucian rituals on top of being Christians, after all), but so will the likes of Galileo who will insist that they have found some inconvenient truths independent of the Divine that defy the needs of the state/society and/or the conventional wisdom. There is some social psychology research on this: Richard Nisbett’s “The Geography of Thought,” for example.
An interesting consequence of this might be that East Asians are much more trusting of the conventional wisdom and the “authority” than either of the Westerners. The Western Diocletians are, at minimum, more inclined to cast aside what they previously believed when they see evidence to believe otherwise. The Eastern Diocletians will simply defy whichever authority that does not conform to their existing sense of the Truth. Hardly a conclusive proof, obviously, but this is something that I often saw among students from East Asia when I was in college: they were generally far more trusting of the “formulas” than we were, which made them much better in conventional situations, but rather less adaptable when thrown a curveball that requires them to think outside the box. Given that formulas cover 99.9% of the situations one might reasonably encounter, being better trained in using the formulas–which they definitely were–might be a good thing, but it also makes them worse “scientists.”
Walker,
Shorter you: “Rape my wife, rape my kids, but please don’t call me racist!”
Tone policing while the race war is kicking off. My sides are dying.
JJMMA,
“Trained in scientific analysis” aka I took a science credit at my junior college once.
You’re claiming that and then linking to Mother Jones and FACEBOOK as “proof”? I see we are dealing with a (((social scientists))) here, as your paen to “authoritarian personality” (invention of Frankfurt School jewry) is pretty revealing.
Meanwhile googling who is shot more, whites or blacks, reveals that whites are shot more than blacks and that there is a hesitation to use force on blacks.
But yeah, keep on pretending otherwise. “JiujitsuMMA” as a handle. Good lordy if we are going to pop psychoanalyze I could do so for days off that one.
Freuden,
I see you have resorted to the tactic of sticking your fingers in your ears and chanting “LA LA LA LA I CAN’T HEAR YOU LA LA LA”.
A bold and unexpected play.
b,
1) Blacks get stopped more because there is a higher percentage of them committing crimes. This is obnoxious handwaving.
2) Versus reports filled out by racial agitators and “hands up don’t shoot”? Lmbo.
3) Googling “peer reviewe fraud” and “problems with peer review” shows that peer review means absolutely nothing nowadays. Its basically either used to reinforce the Leftist Narrative or to attempt to discredit something that goes against the Leftist Religion.
And what do we have here. Well well well.
He a good boy who dindu nuttin.
http://www.unz.com/isteve/man-in-black-lives-matter-t-shirt-shoots-up-a-cops-house-in-indiana/
Eagerly awaiting the Fifth Columnists on here to explain this away.
I’m honestly amazed at the level of dishonesty here, something which I thought that I was beyond.
Some of you are going to be surprised as hell when the mob of feral negro youf kicking in your door doesn’t turn out to be a group of rocket scientists/brain surgeons who are there to rap about the Founding Fathers to appease your delighted progressive sensibilities.
Since I read and evaluate data and stats all of the time, the Fryer study merits a few comments. First, single studies are rarely definitive. If you think a single study provides absolute proof, it probably says more about your pre-existing biases. Heck, even Addington’s results had to be confirmed by the Campbell group in Australia a few years later. Conversely, assuming the study’s conclusions are wrong because of some minor flaws also probably says more about bias than it does conclusions.
Next, my own bias is that police are not more likely overall to shoot anyone based upon their race, so the fact that on a percentage basis police are no more likely to shoot blacks than whites confirms my priors, so I believe it. However, what most people will miss with this is that the police are more likely to stop blacks to begin with. IOW, the DWB phenomenon has been confirmed repeatedly. (Some of this is clearly financially motivated as a source for funding.) In that case you have a much larger denominator. Even if the ratio is constant, the large number on the bottom means more blacks are going to get killed.
Last of all is the issue of who does the reporting in these studies. This study showed that based upon reporting by the police, they are more likely to use force, non-lethal, about 20% more often on blacks. Even when blacks are compliant they are more likely to use force. Looking at numbers reported by blacks, we find those numbers are much higher, by about an order of magnitude (although the confidence limits on more severe force suggest that number is not reliable). Since there is at present no good way to reconcile these two sets of data, people will just have to decide which, if either, to believe.
Steve
Babak Makkinejad,
The British historian Norman Cohn – born in London of a Jewish father and a Catholic mother –ended his war service in the Intelligence Corps in Vienna, dealing with Nazis and refugees from Stalinism. As a result he became interested in the persecutorial obsessions which the two apparently antagonistic systems had in common, and the historical background to them.
Out of this came his 1957 study ‘The Pursuit of the Millennium: Revolutionary Millenarians and Mystical Anarchists of the Middle Ages’, and his 1966 book ‘Warrant for Genocide’, which deals with the ‘Protocols of the Elders of Zion.’
(According to ‘LeaNder’, part of Cohn’s account of the background to the ‘Protocols’ is wrong – but thinking sources are reliable when they turn out not to be is an occupational hazard of trying to make sense of things.)
In 1993 Cohn published ‘Cosmos, Chaos and the World to Come: The Ancient Roots of Apocalyptic Faith.’
In it he argued that, until around 1500 BC, a whole range of different cultures living in and around what we now call the Middle East had elements of a common vision, in which the world was the scene of an eternal struggle between the forces of order (‘cosmos’) and disorder (‘chaos’).
At some point between 1500 and 1200 BC, Cohn argued, Zoroaster reinterpreted this vision. From his summary of the book’s argument:
‘In Zoroaster’s view the world was not static, nor would it always be troubled. Even now the world was moving, through incessant conflict, to a final conflictless state. The time would come when, in a prodigous final battle, the supreme god and his supernatural allies would defeat the forces of chaos and their human allies and eliminate them once and for all. From then on the divinely appointed order would obtain absolutely: physical distress and want would be unknown, no enemy would threaten, within the community of the saved there would be absolute unanimity; in a word, the world would be for ever untroubled, totally secure.’
Back in 1989, when I was still naïve, and had not read any of Cohn’s writings, I hoped that the retreat and collapse of Soviet Communism might herald the end of the twentieth century’s millenarian obsessions. I thought the time was ripe for a cautious, pragmatic, politics.
Why I turned out to be quite so wrong is a question on which I have reflected, over the years.
Part of the reason, I now think, was that at that time I had only begun to grapple with the question – one on which you and I, whatever our other differences, agree – of the ‘persistence of the past’.
At the conclusion of the ‘Cosmos and Chaos’ book, Cohn wrote:
‘Nor is there any reason to think that the story is now reaching its end. The tradition whose origins are studied in this book is still alive and potent. Who can tell what fantasies, religious or secular, it may generate in the unforseeable future?’
What Cohn did not notice was that the tradition which starts with Zoroaster had already generated an extraordinary fantasy – that embodied in Fukuyama’s ‘End of History’ paper, published three years before his study.
If one wants to understand post-Cold War American, and British, attitudes and policies, a critical fact one needs to keep in mind is that most of our most influential ‘intellectuals’ really believed that, as the ‘Great Satan’ had been destroyed, ‘from then on the divinely appointed order would obtain absolutely’ – and indeed, ‘within the community of the saved there would be absolute unanimity’.
There are few things more intellectually self-destructive than the belief that we in the West live in a ‘rational’ world, in which the dreams and fantasies of the past have been put behind us.
Can’t see what Rachel Corrie has to do with the link I posted.
Are you sure you replied to my comment?
(which you are not supposed to do anymore IIRC)
Yet another blurb of reprehensible propaganda from the Taqiyya crackpot!
Could it be that Turks are racists?
There is no “disparity” between the numbers with lethal and non-lethal use of force.
First, using non lethal force generally does not result in the Michael Brown treatment: i.e. getting tossed under the bus by your agency and the Ministry of Love/DOJ coming after you with unlimited money to try and indict you for Murder 1.
Two, anyone who has dealt with blacks behaving badly knows that most of them are raised by single mothers and have problems with authority. Therefore, they will engage in the type of boundary pressing that they have grown accustomed to in order to get their way. This doesn’t work so well with the police.
FKDahl,
Progressive thought has all the hallmarks of a mystery cult nowadays.
since this is pretty much a fantasy would add
3-Go back in time and sunset the Great Society War on Poverty.
the welfare state is a lowlife breeding program.
“The ones I saw arrested did not appear to be big on bathing…”
The ones, you saw may not have been guilty of anything. At least one so far had to be acquitted since the girl/woman did not recognize him in court. There is another suspect an Iraqi who arrived over here with his wife and two kids, apparently they had to let him go again after three month in custody.
Isn’t it interesting we can smell a stench emanating from a screen or print image? We must be truly ingenious.
Quite so but it is a very poorly defined concept.
The last stats I saw suggest that blacks are stopped disproportionately more than their participation in crime. And surely you can see the potential for differential policing to bias the data? If you only stop black people you will only catch black criminals.
Let me put this another way. If you only turn out the pockets of 17 year old black “bucks”, how will you catch the 27 year old white brokers snorting lines of cocaine in cocktail bar restrooms.
With respect to crime rates in nyc and la, they are sharply lower than in the 70s. Of course I ignore financial crime which is not really policed in the us and which has clearly massively increased recently.
For what time period do you think such crime rates have been rising?
I think, for the most part, only American men could live in a long-term relationship with an American woman.
I think that is largely because of the way the expectation of men and women in US has been shaped by her rather unique history.
As an English woman observed: “American woman expect that which we expect from our servants from their husbands.”
An American woman who mentioned her Iranian ex-boyfriend fondly & somewhat wistfully to me observed that she thought that she had been challenging him too much and that was the reason for the breakup of the relationship.
At that time, I thought to myself, “Why on Earth would you have wanted to challenge your boyfriend? What was the point?”
No doubt.
Idleness brings with it a lot of vice.
To your fine observations I would like to add an item:
According to Mary Settegast, in her book “When Zarathustra Spoke”, the Greek and Roman Historians dated the time of Zoroaster to 8600 years from the present.
If that is to be believed, he predates all of the prophets and saints – they all came from under his robe.
These are actually empirically testable propositions (although the good data will be hard to come by as criminal justice related data seem to be terribly inconsistent.)
There is already a relationship between single mothers and crime: those who come from fatherless households are more likely to be involved in crime (or at least be associated with criminals somehow) at any given time than not. They are more likely to be incarcerated than not. While much has been made that an increase in fatherless households in recent decade or two did not necessarily lead to increase in crime per se, we did see an increase in both troublesome police-civilian interactions and greater incarceration rates–presumably falling disproportionately among people from fatherless households. What you are proposing is a perfectly valid question: are people from fatherless households more likely to get into these troublesome police-civilian interactions? While I can’t seem to find a good uniform data, it might be possible to find some jurisdictions where that sort of data is, at least, imputable.
Babak,
“Why on Earth would you have wanted to challenge your boyfriend?”
The secret love test.
rjj,
the abandonment of faith in God and family is “a lowlife breeding program”.The welfare state just pays for it.
would have said the absence/loss of hope and purpose.
and added: sometimes it is paid with trust funds.
“Challenge” can mean many things… and the comment is not in any sort of context to give it meaning or relevance. It can mean anything from being a pushy bitch, to questioning beliefs and/or behaviors, to a sporting competition, etc.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/challenge
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/keywords/challenge.html
Men challenge each other all the time… if a man can’t stand to be challenged by a woman just because she’s a woman, then he’s just a pussy and not worth any woman’s time.
Tyler,
This may be slightly off topic, well maybe not, but anyway: I just found out that Freddie Gray was faking being hurt when he was arrested. You said that at the time. I disagreed. I was wrong.
Mark
PS: Peter Moskos’s blog: http://www.copinthehood.com/ He has a PhD from Harvard. He was a Baltimore City Police Officer.
OK
So, what killed him? pl
Harry,
The 27 year old snorting coke is generally minding his own business paying way too much to have the pleasure of talking to strippers.
The 17 year old blacks are more often than not breaking into houses and killing everyone inside brutally.
Yes, crime rates are lower in NYC than the 70s, but higher than they were in Giuliani’s day. Why? Because Giuliani turned NYC from a ghetto slum into a first class city because he went after those most likely to commit violent crimes, i.e the packs of 17 year old youfs vs. the 27 year old babbling inanities on cocaine.
Let’s not play the equivocacy game here to virtue signal.
HankP,
Yes I’m sure a black liberal social scientist wanted to hear blacks are getting shot because of their own damn fool selves.
Go vote for your Borg Queen already.
TTG,
Trump is making white people realize they have a tribal identity, like blacks, hispanics, and jewry.
What is he exaggerating about TTG? Let me know.
TTG,
Yeah the days of rioting in Ferguson was a right wing fever dream.
How you dealing with Bernie endorsing Borg Queen over there m8?
Mark,
Accepted. Maybe you’ll realize that I’m saying what I do because I know what I speak of, part of the reason the good Colonel keeps me around.
1) Actually, I have a university degree in computer science (but computer science is really programming & not really lab experiments using the ‘scientific method’).. instead, real scientific analysis took place elsewhere
when I was majoring in Molecular Cell Biology (Biochemistry), we did lots experimentation & labs, especially in microbiology & physiology classes –that
was real scientific training.. the most important thing is EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE and NOT the messenger nor majority approval nor opinion nor citing some AUTHORITY figure as a source, which is why your gripe about MotherJone’s links to the study is ignorant –ie, empirical evidence/facts matte
2) MotherJones article has LINKS & excerpts to the studies -the Facebook link has the PHOTO from the study (since SST can’t upload images) .. it’s NOT using MothorJones nor Facebook as an authority
3) The fact that you can’t discern that the MESSENGER is NOT the SUBJECT nor used as an Authority is more telling of your analytic abilities (or lack of it) .. (it’s NOT some ‘Argument from Authority’ source)
Even if FoxNews, Motherjones or MSNBC report that the sun is hot or has gravity doesn’t make it anymore or less true –what matters is if there is EMPIRICAL EVIDENCE to support what is reported, NOT the MESSENGER
4) Down lower was another study earlier posted by another poster using laser guns that showed blacks were hesitated more.. that’s another data point I already mentioned below that post that contradicted the Denver study
With contradicting or conflicting data points & studies for/against on both sides, that just goes with ‘gather more evidence’
5) Authoritarian personality types exist regardless of whether your opinion that they don’t (just like religious fanatics/jihdaists exist regardless if you believe they don’t)
– hundreds of studies done on it — here’s more links to more studies on them
as
well as one of the main psychlogists & books on it (one of the main professors made his book free to download because he believes it’s so important to recognize it to prevent the rise of fascist Authoritarian politicians)
a) https://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
b) http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/authoritarianism-in-american-politics/
5) You call it ‘Frankfurt jewry’? Hmm, you sound racist or bigoted against Jewish?..
You sound like the classic Authoritarian personality type who supports Trump right from the start, didn’t you?
FkDahl,
Army of Two. Let’s slot some floppies.
TTG, the police is obviously withdrawing from some democrat lead cities like Baltimore where the insurgency against them was openly supported by elected officials who said blacks “must have space for destruction.” From thence came much of the spike in urban violence, now afflicting american cities with large concentration of blacks. That the police is in retreat because of the combined effect of black anger at them and official media and government support to such anger through the action of black politicians (like Obama indeed) and black ethnic activists, is proof enough there is a black conspiracy to kill cops, notwithstanding the amount of white complitcity masking the core actors.
Since the seventies has there ever been such a generalized retreat by the police forces where true criminals, instead of mere college students doing political agitation, were left to their own volition?
You suggest I should high tail if I’m affraid, but if the police high tails you suggest they have nothing to fear. Interesting logic.
Thanks for the good idea about the backyard bunker and the case of plastic bags. At least your bias is conducive to the development of intelligent strategies for self-preservation. I will start learning the art of bunker bagshitting today in the basement. I promise I will be stinking to high heavens when I do my next keyboard ambush on you.
Your “something” seems to be more singular than “they” when used as genderless pronoun.
A man does not enter an intimate relationship with a woman for banter and other such manly activities.
That is a relationship killer even on that planet called USA.
Valissa,
Sounds like your feelings are hurt.
Tyler,
You consider days of rioting in Ferguson to be evidence of a race war? It may have brought changes to the FPD, but it was clearly ineffectual in starting a race war. It was about as effective as that boob-headed kid in SC gunning down nine blacks in a Charleston church. He wanted to start a race war, too. Or those clowns in Oregon who hoped to ignite a revolution by occupying a nature preserve. All they did was piss off the locals, many who were sympathetic to their cause, and get one of their own killed. It takes a lot more than any of these events to have a race war or revolutionary uprising, my friend. You of all people should understand how much it takes to start a war.
As for Bernie endorsing the Borg Queen, it truly sucks bilge water.
Whatever the study stays, crack cocaine use to carry a sentence 100 times worse than powder cocaine. This law obviously had a racist effect because crack is a much cheaper drug and therefore more likely to be used by poorer people aka blacks.
Of course we should all be saints, but some of us are not. Those who sin, regarded of their race, should face the same consequences.
Lastly, arguing that study is like debating how many angels can fit on the head of the pin (something like that). People do not think in statistics. If they somebody getting hurt whom they resemble or are acquainted with get hurt by somebody in a standard uniform, the mind makes assumptions and forms stereotypes.
Lastly here are some links of what policing at least in New York looks like.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rWtDMPaRD8
Tyler,
Nothing wrong with tribal identity and tribal pride. It all depends on what you do with that identity and pride.
When does Trump exaggerate? He’s a master at it. Here’s a few. But don’t ask me to defend the Borg Queen. She’s just as masterful at it.
Trump claims the wives of the 9/11 hijackers “knew exactly what was happening” and returned to Saudi Arabia two days before the attacks to watch their husbands on television flying the planes. The 9/11 Commission report stated that none of the hijackers had a wife, girlfriend or family member in the United States during the days or months leading up to the hijackings.
Trump claimed that “many of” the university’s instructors were “handpicked” by him. That’s not true. In a 2012 deposition, a top executive for Trump University said that “none of our instructors” was picked by Trump himself.
Trump claimed 81 percent of murdered white people are killed by black people. The truth? 84 percent of murdered white people are murdered by other white people. Trump cited the “Crime Statistics Bureau—San Francisco,” which doesn’t exist except in the mind of a white supremacist on Twitter.
Trump: “Hey, I watched when the World Trade Center came tumbling down. And I watched in Jersey City, New Jersey, where thousands and thousands of people were cheering as that building was coming down.” There is no evidence to support that claim. On the contrary, it was half a dozen dancing Israelis.
Trump lied about how he avoided the draft for Vietnam, claiming he got a high draft number. Not only did he get four deferments in college, but draft numbers were not even used until December, 1969, a full year after he received his final deferment, a medical one in September 1968.
Anonymous,
Police departments retreating from cities? Not happening. I might buy temporary withdrawal from a block or two for no more than a few hours or days, but never retreating from cities. If anything the response has been aggressive reinforcement to regain control like in Watts, Baltimore and everything in between. Life in this country is not all rainbows and glitter and it never will be, but like I told Tyler, we have a long way to go to get to a race war.
I am glad you like my advice about bunker bagshitting. I learned that lesson firsthand during a 22 day SICTA (strategic intelligence collection/target acquisition) mission. Until next time, sweet dreams.
Really? Banter is a manly activity? LOL… How quaint. You are the perfect example of why I was never interested in men of ME origin for the purposes of intimate relationship 😉
Haha, OK. I concede: All cultures have equal value–but maintain their own ethos that make them fundamentally distinct and different from one another. Fair?
The Western Cultural Revolution equivalent?
I had to google that term…
When I was younger I was your typical liberal and thought that all people were basically nice, and that other cultures were enriching. Now I am much more jaded and realize we have to safeguard the good things about our culture. There are a lot of idiots out there, and people from different cultures or countries are different, not always to the better.
Tyler,
And I thought it was your polite charm and banter that kept you here.
Harry,
“..how will you catch the 27 year old white brokers snorting lines of cocaine in cocktail bar restrooms.”
I would start with asking Joe Biden’s son, the one with the wrist slap discharge from the Navy before going to work for the Ukrainians, what his coke dealer(s) names are.
Tyler, respectfully,
I’m not sure how observing that a study has some serious sampling flaws constitutes willful ignorance on my part. Your turn to cover your ears. 🙂
Tyler,
are you a troll? A quick bit of research shows that the total number of major felonies has dropped from approximately 185k in 2000 — the last full year under Giuliani — until leveling off at approximately 105k in 2009 thru 2015. During that same time, NYC’s population has increased by a modest amount, lowering the actual crime rate per 100,000 even further. If you’re going to try to bolster your arguments with facts, check first to make sure they’re correct.
Geez, Fred… I’m just bantering with y’all 😉 [perhaps you didn’t notice the winky symbol in my prior comment… used again here… a classic sign of friendly banter]
bantering, bickering, bullshitting, and bitching privileges are chits in social distance negotiations.
What about Americans of Christian faith or Jewish faith that provide material support to DAESH? McCain providing funding or some media figures who promote or at least romanticize ISIS?
It’s not race (or poverty), that causes crime. It’s lack of a loving family and parental discipline.
“I know what I speak of” not always
(Also, there’s no need to be rude.)
Amir
I have seen many tried and convicted for providing material support to terrorism. This is a federal offense that carries a heavy sentence. McCain is safe because of parliamentary immunity. pl
kao_hsien_chih,
The fatherless household hypothesis does indeed appear to be completely reasonable and testable. Now, just try to get the funding to study it. Since, if proven true, it would fly in the face of liberal utopian visions and place some amount of blame on the Black community/culture, no one will touch that research with a ten foot pole. If some brave soul went forward without anyhow, they’d be tarred, feathered and run out of academia faster than you can say “Charles Murray” upon publication.
Watching more tee vee news than is healthy these past couple of weeks, I am arriving at the conclusion that the Black community is pathologically incapable of telling the truth or adapting to the rules of civil society.
First, one after another, various representative Blacks are paraded in front of us; each emotionally telling his or her sad tale of alleged discrimination. Yet Overwhelmingly, I am not hearing that their experience with law enforcement is significantly different than my (a white man) own. Yet they believe it is.
I have been pulled over for no good reason when driving at night. I have had police concoct reason (e.g. no turn signal, when I know for a fact I did signal). I figure it’s just cops playing the odds that after a certain hour they might have a shot at making a nice fat DWI arrest. But if I was Black, I say that racism is the reason. These people cannot seem to be able to see past their own Blackness.
Second, now the female witness to the Castile shooting is caught in massive inconsistencies in her story and some early forensic and other material evidence is suggesting that the story she calmly recorded while sitting next to a dying man is BS. So it appears we are going to repeating the cycle of black man shot by cops, witnesses lie to make Black man look like a victim, cops persecuted, black man turns out to be a criminal, shooting turns out to be justified, witnesses turn out to be liars and cops are found not guilty, Blacks riot. Yet they continue to insist a genocide is underway and they still recite the hands up don’t shoot meme even though it is totally disconnected from the reality of any of these situations. That is pathological.
IMO this is all an information operation by the White House to take attention away from Hillary’s email and perjury problem and to set the stage for riots outside the GOP convention, which will be blamed on Trump, of course (the Ukraine in Cleveland). The Dem.s are stirring up the Blacks and then swinging open the gates of the plantation for a while.
simedogz212,
It is important to remember that the Black community itself asked its representatives to get tough on the drug problem that plagues it. Crack is, as you say, the drug of choice for Blacks. So law makers responded by singling out crack for tough sentencing. The Blacks asked for that themselves. Everyone is convinced that rampant racism drives these things that they forget the facts.
Babak,
Over the years I have noticed you consistently placing a heavy emphasis on dope as a cause of social ills. I don’t see it. Colorado, Oregon….where is the crime wave that you would predict would be associated with legalized recreational cannabis? Not there.
Lots of people use drugs recreationally or even spiritually, yet lead productive peaceful lives, just as most drinkers of alcohol do. The root cause of social ills is something else.
I am stating my opinion.
Some people can hold their dope, many cannot.
I am familiar with Oregon; growing cannabis plants in US National Forest and calling it Liberty.
The structures that forefathers of the dope heads had created through hard sober labor is still carrying their progeny forward and protecting them.
Among African-Americans and the so-called Euro-Trash, such structures are weaker because of poverty; there you can see for yourself the carnage.
And my criticism still stands: for dope heads to live – productive lives as you state – the rest of us have to live sober and boring lives.
And when a dope head loses it, as is often the case with already testosterone-crazed young me – we have to go and cleanup their shit.
There is direct criminality in Iran that is reported every day which can be traced to addition to crack, for example. This is a global problem and I am afraid only death sentences will remedy it.
London is a first class city; New York City is no longer so; has not been for decades.
Eric,
what you are looking for is “family disruption.” There’s no shortage of papers on the subject of family disruption and its effect on crime rates.
Eric,
“Demographics” would not provide any explanation at all.
One problem with empirical studies especially relating to human behavior is that correlation does not equate with causation. This where most empirical studies fail in attributing causes.
Those that claim “scientific method” superiority don’t get that some of most trenchant observers of humanity were philosophers, historians and writers.
Hiding behind your scientific training does not necessarily improve your argument on matters relating to social issues like mass psychology, culture, economics and other areas of human behavior.
Freuden,
Are you a fool? If they’re not arresting people for felonies, you can’t “report” them, can you? If you’re going to quote your metrics, link to your numbers so I can take them apart, you schmuck.
Freuden,
“Serious sampling flaws because I said so” isn’t the killer argument you think it is. More liberal smoke and mirrors to distract from what your lying eyes are telling you.
Sad!
1) Okay so no real scientific training. Got it.
2) Mother Jones’ outtake is slanted as hell. Couldn’t view the FB one but saw FB, and laughed.
3) Ignoring that the messenger is part of the argument is more liberal mendaciousness to try and take away from the results. It says more about you trying to disbelieve what your lying eyes are telling you was anything else.
4) A laser gun ploy isn’t real life, and real life shows that 1) cops hesitate to shoot blacks more than whites and 2) whites are shot more than blacks.
5) More (((social science))) voodoo magic by Frankfurt School jewry. Protip: the same people going on about Scary White Authoritarians are also the ones convinced transgender types are totes natural and mentally healthy. Talk about someone who appeals to authority and is seeing Nazis under the bed.
6) You sound like the typical liberal who practices scientistry but ignores or attempts to handwave away anything that disagrees with your insane progressive cult.
Pointing out that the Frankfurt School headshrinkers were mostly jewish and hated whites and engaged in typical Jewish projection isn’t anti-semetic, you idiot. Its a fact.
TTG,
So basically Trump speaks off the cuff and you’re taking it as some sort of indictment? Whew son, I hope you never have your statements picked apart.
And yes, Muslims were cheering during 9/11.
TTG,
That and the interracial homicide and rape stats to be evidence of such. Go look up how many whites are murdered and raped by blacks and get back to me.
Roof was an autistic kid who latched onto the Confederate Flag. However, by the usual breathtaking standard of progressives he represents all whites forever and forever while we will never know why Omar Marteen, the San Berdoo shooters, and ol Malik killed a bunch of people.
The clowns in Oregon were LARPing at playing patriot and surprised to see that the Feds took their “Come and Take It” roleplay serious. I had a hearty lol at their fate.
TTG,
Let me tell you that the police are indeed retreating from policing. Maybe not in Podunk, OH (Demographics 97% white), but in cities with large black populations and Democratic governments, yeah they’re sitting in their cars.
Mark,
Yeah, except the crime of poor white places (WV) never even touches the kind of crime you see in Detroit, black Chicago, or other black run areas of Baltimore.
Two steps forward, one step back with you I guess.
Fred,
That and my lifting routine advice.
That was not an apology.
Crime rates, yes–and there’re tons of studies in one direction or other. Police interaction, much less so–I don’t think we even have data for family status of those involved in altercations with cops.
Tyler,
As you well know you can arrest people all day long for felonies but if the prosecutors don’t charge them they won’t count either.
FWIW, and I hope I’ve got my fingers right (I’m no whiz at calculations), but it seems reasonable to look at the results of that Harvard study in terms not only of number of deaths but also of the number of those deaths as a fraction of how many Whites, Blacks, and Hispanics there are in the U.S. population Pardon me if someone here already has done this.
Total U.S. population: 183,600,000 in 2014 (rounded off a bit)
racial makeup of U.S. population in 2014: Whites, 62%, Blacks 12%, Hispanics 18%
Whites: 494 deaths from police action in 2015; 113,600,000 Whites in population; deaths of those Whites as fraction of White population = .0000043
Blacks: 258 deaths from police action 2015; 22,320,000 blacks in population; deaths of those Blacks as a fraction of Black population = .000016
Hispanics: 172 deaths from police action in 2015; 33,048,000 Hispanics in population; deaths of those Hispanics as a fraction of Hispanic population =.0000052
Therefore, the number of Black deaths from police action in 2015 as a percentage of the Black population is 3.72 times greater than the number of White deaths from police action as a percentage of the White population.
The number of Hispanic deaths from police action as a percentage of the Hispanic population is also greater than the number of White deaths from police action as a percentage of the White population but not by nearly as much.
If I figured incorrectly, someone here surely will straighten me out.
The question that is never asked is one of economical deprivation: the whites that get shot are ore like the blacks that get shot, they just have a different skin color. If you are a Kennedy you can get away with reckless drunk driving that lead to a women’s death. The same goes for Hillary’s FBI file and Bill’s “didn’t inhale excuse” as well as all the rest. If you are a destitute white or a black (higher percentage of destitution), you can not get away with a joint.
1) Tyler, when you write “feral negro youf kicking in your door” & “you can’t see reality until it’s a 17 year old negro buck beating your head in for your stupid electronic toy”,
the empirical evidence of your own words show that you refer to & view blacks as animals “feral” & “buck” that you are racist & a bigot
4) The study I was referencing of using laser guns & HD images that you dismiss actually showed cops hesitating more when shooting blacks (that’s extra data point I was referring to & accept –unlike you, I can accept contradicting data) ..
while the Denver study using a computer screen/videogame with ‘shoot’ & ‘don’t shoot’ buttons showed cops quicker to shoot blacks –ie, conflicting data points
5) I don’t dismiss these data points but add them all up..like climate change or global warming, there’s conflicting data on both sides, which just means gather more data
As another poster wrote, only a fool would accept just 1 study & end it –the standard in science is that MULTIPLE studies have to be done to further prove or disprove it for science, studies must be replicable & reprodicble with the same results for it to it’s conclusions to be verified as correct
Have you even passed a university science course, Tyler?
6) Empirical data matters & not really the messenger
Isaac Newton was a religious nut who advocated virginity for life & was a virgin til he died –his anti-sexual philosophy people disagree with
but
what he wrote & presented about physics & calculus was correct as proven through empirical evidence
Similarly, Sanger was a racist who believed in eugenics that most people disagree with but what she wrote about the importance of contraception & family planning & the importance of having children after being finacially securre (finish education, establish a career first before having children),
most people agree with & supported by empirical evidence
(ie, providing & using contraception lowers poverty rates, lowers STD rates, lowers abortion rates in all countries & demographics)
6) The fact that you resort ad hominem insults shows you lack any logical or reasoning analytical skills & never attended or read any scientific conferences/debates at all -where insults & ad hominems are not allowed any more than it would be in a court of law.
The goal of science is to find the facts & the truth thru empirical evidence –it’s not done by shouting down or insulting the other side with ad hominems of “F you” or “you’re an idiot’ which shows a lack of self control, & losing one’s cool, becoming emotional & unable to think rationally in the scientific world
Tyler,
“Roof was an autistic kid who latched onto the Confederate Flag.”
Oh that poor little white child was so misunderstood. Bullshit! I’m surprised you would utter such a PC SJW thing. Roof was 20 years old, an adult. Granted he was a drug addled, lazy loser. He created and maintained a hateful web page and manifesto. He planned his murderous rampage for six months. He said his purpose was to start a civil war. He’s a no good piece of evil on the same level as those pieces of evil in Orlando, San Bernardino and Dallas. No one, you, me or any sane person, should be making excuses for these weasels. Mourning the waste of a life, fine, but don’t make excuses for them.
Fk,
Traditional Western culture is best culture. It put a man on the moon, raised the standard of living to the highest it has ever been, and made life better for untold billions.
It is worth defending against the orcs.
FkDahl,
Yes, right down to “Culture Face”.
JiuJitsu,
Or maybe cops are going to treat a 5′ Asian (model wife, I’m dying here) different then they are a negro buck with neck tattoos and a number of priors.
But hey, the best thing about anecdotal evidence is you’re never wrong, guy who runs behind “Muh Scientific Method”.
Fred,
No you see there was a report and we know that reports are never slanted and furthermore Freuden’s eyes are just lying to him.
Don’t mind him he’s just busy burying his head in the sane.
Larry,
Men are also killed more than women by the police.
Using this logic, police must be killing men because they hate men.
Colonel Lang, Kao, Babak,
You are correct & your colleagues at West Point would delight in reading famed anthropologist Dr. Marvin’s award-winning book “Our Kind: Who We Are, Where We Came From, & Where We’re Going” https://www.amazon.com/Our-Kind-Where-Came-Going/dp/0060919906
(it was required reading in my Honors Comparative History of Western & Eastern Civilization & Cultures university class) since he
writes
with humor & entertainingly so it reads fast.. Using hundreds of pages of empirical evidence, archaelogical & anthropological findings as well as studies of over 200+ cultures worldwide,
Dr. Harris
explains & analyzes with deep insight how & why different cultures such as China, Islamic countries, Europe, etc evolved to be so different.
Like evolution, wars & battlefields, it’s actually the different physical environment & resources that shape the evolution of cultures, just like environment & resources shape the evolution of wars & battlefields as well as species.
The reason is cultures are like species in that both are shaped by their physical environments & resources.. some interesting points out of many in his book:
1) Cultures that evolved in scarce resoures areas like most of the Middle East where fresh water & food is scarce evolve to be more conservative, prudish & more controlling, anti-sexual because more sex means more babies & more mouths to feed that would just put more strain on the desert tribe’s limited supplies of fresh water & food.. thus, the Middle Eastern desert religions of Judiasm, Christianity, & Islam evolved to be controlling & anti-sexual in their literary works
2) In contrast, in areas that are temperate climate, sub-tropical, or tropical where fresh water is plentiful & food is plentiful, cultures evolved to be more liberal, openly sexual, pro-sexual because there was plenty of fresh water & food for everyone & having more babies did not put a strain on the local fresh water/food supplies..
Thus, the oldest statues and carvings from archaelogical finds in temperate climate Europe & temperate to sub-tropical to tropical Asia show nude women & men/women having sex as well as worshipping nude female statues/fertility symbols..
3) And you see the pagan religions of Europe & Asia develop fertility spring festivals (still celebrated today in Japan where everyone in town including girls & women carries flags & statues of penises & carry a giant 20 foot penis to the town square)..
Prostitution has always been legal in temperate climate Japan (plentiful fresh water & food) until the US made it illegal when it occupied Japan after wW2 –geishas are celebrated as a Japanese symbol but few Westerners realize that geishas are prostitutes. Sex & homosexuality is not a big deal in Japan, where porn is rampant, TV game shows have women & men sniffing each other’s privates or in the nude to identify each other, & used girl’s panties are sold in vending machines at subway stops.
4) In temperate climate Europe, you see the Greek/Roman cultures & religions, India’s Hindu culture religions & Kama Sutra & Tantric Buddhism, as well as almost all other pagan religions have gods/goddesses of love,sex, & beauty like the Roman/Greek goddess Aprodite/Venus and (her son, Dionysus, the satyr-liek god of wine, sex, orgies)..
&
China’s Taoist & Confucist culture is pro-sexual for most of it’s history 5,000+ year history (but note that about ~200 years ago, some prudish emperors & Mao stamped out all mention of sex because they viewed it as a distraction in their quest to control & order society ..more on this later)
& the Nordic countries with it’s many freshwater rivers, seafood, they had Freya, the Nordic goddess of love, sex, & beauty (trivia: Friday is named after Freyja)
and they all are sexually liberated with many pre-marital sexual exploits with humans in their many legends about them
..and also many legends also about the Greek/Roman seductive nude/near-nude nymphs & Nordic Valykyrie & Asian half-nude/nude angelic, heavenly asuras, whom all have many premarital sexual relations with heroes in legends
5) Like the pagan temples in Europe (Greek & Roman as well as well as Celitc & German), most Hindu temples like famous Angkor Wat in Cambodia as well as in Bali have as
standard
show many bare-breasted, scantily clad or nude statues, bas-reliefs carved into the temple walls, carvings & paintings on public display of various topless, partially nude, or fully nude goddesses, asura (female angels/nymphs), angels, guardian spirits, & other goddesses,
especially famous in Cambodia’s famed Angkor Wat temple
as
well as other temples in SouthEast Asia in Malaysia & Indonesia where there are Hindu temples & other pagan temples that have carvings & statues of nude/half-nude women, goddesses, angels, asura on their temple walls (at least, the ones that were not destroyed by Muslim rulers)
..
but note that much of the nude/partially nude statues/bas-reliefs were destroyed by Islamic or some prudish Christian rulers that later conquered or converted them in India & other areas
6) Tropical India with it’s pro-sexual Hindu religion & Kama Sutra, Tantric Sex & Tantric Buddhism (where you acheive heaven & nirvana thru more great sex) –but note that India was later invaded & conquered by Muslim Empires from the 12th to 16th Centuries..and later invaded & colonized by the Christian British..under 400 years of Muslim rule & 500 years of prudish Victorian/Christian British rule made India into sexually conservative, prudish cultures afterwards)
This schism in cultures is also why India was split into 2 countries after WW2 –into what is now Pakistan (which used to be part of India) & India’s borders today..
India’s more secular Hindu population could NOT agree with the more theocratic population of Muslims who wished to impose more theocratic Sharia law onto the rest of the population, leading to violent strife bordering on civil war..
so India was split into current border India & Pakistan (and in Pakistan they would impose Sharia law now except that the secular military dictatorship prevents that, just like in Egypt where the the secular military dictatorship overthrew the democratically elected theocratic Sharia law Muslim Brotherhood that won the majority in elections)
Similarly, the diffences in culture is why Singapore seceded from Malaysia in 1965. Singapore was part of Malaysia but the violent strife between theocratic Malaysian Muslims & mostly ethnic Chinese Taoist, Buddhist, Confucist Singaporeans lead to Singapore breaking off & seceding from Malaysia in 1965.
However, Malaysia’s Constitution is based on the British constitution guaranteeing freedom of religion.. but various prime ministers have said “Malaysia is a secular country” while other prime ministers have said, “Malaysia is an Islamic country”..
Both Malaysia & Indonesia have become more influenced by billions in Saudi Arabian money spreading Wahhabism & Sharia.. they have recently allowed Aceh (a province in Indonesia) to impose Sharia law even on non-Muslims (jail & criminal penalities & lashings for pre-marital sex, requiring) while in Malaysia, a law was passed that bans kissing & hugging the opposite sex in public even for non-Muslims while Muslims are jailed for pre-marital sex.
This is suprising since it contradicts both Indonesia’s & Malaysia’s constitution that guarantees freedom of religion though when I vacationed there for a month, I kissed my wife & hugged her many times in public & no one cared (but then again, I was in the tourist areas & our hotel receptionist said “don’t worry’, it’s only if someone complains & no one will complain since we want tourists to be happy’ .. but what about the natives/locals who aren’t so lucky?
7) Being ethnically Chinese & raised with Buddhist, Taoist, & Confucist teachings, the 3 most important AGNOSTIC, SECULAR philosphies that dominate China, Japan, & most of East Asia are
Taoism, Confucianism, & Buddhsim
(note that people debate whether they are philosphies of ethical/moral principles or that they are religions
–I don’t call them religions because there do NOT have any doctrines of worshipping deities –in contrast, the Roman/Greek & Norse religions have worship of deities but have no ethical/moral principles
–ie, religion is worshipping deities .. philosophy is a set of ethical/moral principles..
you can have religion with or without philosphy & you can have philosphy with or without religion)
7a) Taoism: chi, yin-yang, jing, harmony & “go with the flow” (much more later below), which dominated most of China’s 5000+ year history untl around 1000 AD until more controlling & puritanicall Emperors ruled
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism
Most Westerners know of Taoism’s concept of chi & yin-yang (female/male) but most don’t realize that is only half the story.. chi is energy/life force & jing is essence of the body (sperm/ovary energy)
.. and you create & absorb more chi & jing by having more sex, especially with more women, so you become healthier & extend your life-span by having more sex with more womenm, according to Taoist beliefs (more on China & Confucist pro-sexual culture below near end since there’s much to it).
This is why most Chinese emperors, princes, wealthy had hundreds to thousands of wives & concubines (aka as mistresses) ..some Emperors had 20,000 concubines
Note that China banned slavery around 200 BC to 1st century (although prisoners were assigned slave labor but freed when their sentence was up) so concubines were voluntary live-in mistresses.
in Chinese culture, concubines also protected legal status, with inheritance rights but inferior to that of a wife. Some concubines inherited the titles & rights of Duchess when their Duke husbands died without a living son or wife.
Trivia: Latest multiple medical studies published in Western medical journals show the more sex you have, the healther you are since it works not just as good exercise, but lowers cancer rates by 20%-40%, lowers blood pressure, increases endorphins & calming neurotransmitters, & boosts the immune system.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoist_sexual_practices (see there also paintings that were commonly found on Imperial palace walls of lovemaking)
Qi (Lifeforce) and Jing (Essence)
The basis of all Taoist thinking is that qi is part of everything in existence.[2] Qi is related to another energetic substance contained in the human body known as jing (精),
an
d once all this has been expended the body dies. Jing can be lost in many ways, but most notably through the loss of body fluids.
Taoists may use practices to stimulate/increase and conserve their bodily fluids to great extents.
The fluid believed to contain the most Jing is semen.
“Jing
Another important concept of “The Joining of the Essences” was that the union of a man and a woman would result in the creation of jing, a type of sexual energy.
When in the act of lovemaking, jing would form, and the man could transform some of this jing into qi, and replenish his lifeforce.
By having as much sex as possible, men had the opportunity to transform more and more jing, and as a result would see many health benefits.[3]
Women
For Taoists, sex was not just about pleasing the man. The woman also had to be stimulated and pleased in order to benefit from the act of sex. .
Women were also given a prominent place in the Ishinpō, with the tutor being a woman. One of the reasons women had a great deal of strength in the act of sex was that they walked away undiminished from the act.
The woman had the power to bring forth life, and did not have to worry about ejaculation or refractory period.
Women were often given a position of inferiority in sexual practice. Many of the texts discuss sex from a male point of view, and avoid discussing how sex could benefit women.
Men were encouraged to not limit themselves to one woman, and were advised to have sex only with the woman who was beautiful and had not had children.
While the man had to please the woman sexually, she was still just an object.[10]
Women were also considered to be a means for men to extend men’s lives.
Many of the ancient texts were dedicated explanation of how a man could use sex to extend his own life.
But, his life was extended only through the absorption of the woman’s vital energies (jing and qi). .”[12]
7b) Confucianism: “With particular emphasis on the importance of the family and social harmony, rather than on an otherworldly soteriology [7] the core of Confucianism is humanistic.[8]” [soteriology is the study of religious salvation, of which Confucius did not concern himself with
Confucius said: “Desire for food and sex is natural”
That is why in Chinese, sex and nature is the same word.
Confucius also said that it was the duty of a good ruler to see to it that the people have enough food, water, shelter, & women ..and th
..see below
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confucianism
http://www.chinapost.com.tw/commentary/china-post/joe-hung/2013/04/01/374797/Chinese-intellectual.htm
“In “The Analects of Confucius,” disciples of China’s great sage wrote, “The master did not talk about prodigies, force, disorders and gods.” He never attested to, asserted or debated claims about the existence or non-existence of any deity, as well as other religious and metaphysical claims.
That is why Confucius was once condemned in the Christian West as an atheist and the debate is still going on about whether or not Confucianism is a religion. Nonetheless, Confucianism is the religion of Chinese intellectuals.
The fact is that Confucius was an agnostic, the word Thomas Huxley coined in the 19th century for someone like himself who rejects all claims of spiritual or mystical knowledge. In the popular sense, an agnostic is one who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a god or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively.
All Confucian scholar-officials of yore were agnostics. But Confucian agnosticism tends to be agnostic theism. They knew there was no proof of either the existence or non-existence of any deity but still believed in such an existence.”
Deist or agnostic would best describe Confucius.
7c) Buddhism: “Letting go of attachments” & “live & let live” ..some sects of Buddhism like Tantric Buddhism is like Taoism in that it promotes having longer & more sex to increase health & longevity as well as reaching heaven thru more lovemaking
5 precepts of Buddhism:
“1. Refraining from harming living beings / practising loving kindness
2. Refraining from taking the non-given / practising generosity
3. Refraining from committing sexual misconduct / practising contentment
4. Refraining from false speech/ practising truthful communication
5. Refraining from intoxicants/ practising mindfulness.”
“These precepts take the form of voluntary, personal undertakings. They are not commandments; there is no god in Buddhism, so none to issue any.
“The precepts express basic principles rather than fixed, legalistic rules that any one action falls inside or outside of. Like any non-fundamentalist ethical system, Buddhism provides us with general guiding principles while in no way relieving us of the obligation to make appropriate moral judgements in each morally significant situation we come across. Moral judgement is never a question of blindly applying a rule.
“The five precepts constitute an integrated set – each precept supports the others. To know what ‘sexual misconduct’ means you look at the other precepts. ‘Sexual misconduct’, in the spirit of the precepts as a job lot, means any sexual conduct involving violence, manipulation or deceit – conduct that therefore leads to suffering and trouble. By contrast good sexual conduct is based on loving ”
from http://www.buddhanet.net/winton_s.htm
Note that all 3 philosphies have principles to be kind & helpful & ethical but NO religoius worship of supernatural dieties ..
Buddha himself said, “I am NOT a god, do NOT worship me as a god” (but some later sects branched off & deified him)
Buddha also said, [paraphrased, many translations of it, slightly different]
“Don’t blindly believe what I say. Don’t believe me because others convince you of my words.
Don’t believe anything you see, read, or hear from others,
whether of authority, religious teachers or texts.
Don’t rely on logic alone, nor speculation.
Don’t infer or be deceived by appearances.
Do not give up your authority and follow blindly the will of others.
This way will lead to only delusion.
Find out for yourself what is truth, what is real.”
“Look to truth for authority, do not look to authority for truth”
.“Peace comes from within. Do not seek it without.”
http://www.sapphyr.net/buddhist/buddhist-quotes.htm
http://mrsmindfulness.com/the-3-best-bits-of-advice-the-buddha-gave/
===
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taoism
==
Note that Chinese language must be enabled on the browser to see them below or else you will see ???? instead of Chinese names below
.”The word Confucius is translated by sound from Chinese, which means Master Kong or Teacher Kong. His real name was Kong Qiu孔丘. Qiu means hill or hillock. His parents had sex on a wild hill and named him after it. There was no shame having such a name, because the notion of chastity was not even invented!
At the time Confucius was born (551 BC), people in China treated sex as a natural thing.
Confucius said: “Desire for food and sex is natural.食色性也”
That is why in Chinese, sex and nature is the same word.
People threw orgy parties when spring came. Locations were often riverside or on a hill and that was a social norm.
Even time before Confucius, there were a lot of evidence to show Chinese were big fan of premarital sex.
A book named Collection of Ancient Poems 诗经, in which ancient refers to time before Confucius, because Confucius compiled them, there were many erotic poems.
One of examples are 郑风 Ballad from Zheng (Zheng was a state).
“女曰观乎?士曰既且。且往观乎? 洧之外,洵訏且乐。维士与女，伊其将谑，赠之以勺药。”
“The lady said shall we have fun?
The man says though I’ve just had sex, I’d like to go with you and have fun.
There is a place near River You, it is open and lots of fun”
So the man and the lady flirted and had sex to each other.
After that they gave Shaoyao(a plant) as a gift.
Some comments on the poem.
Today the Chinese word 且 means “and”, but it used to be a hieroglyph: an erected male genital.
This is why Chinese word 祖 “ancestor” is combined with two words 示 “oracle” and 且 [erect penis].
The word 观 was actually 欢, which means fun and even today bears sexually implication.
Brothels are called 欢场”fun place”,
intercourse are called 交欢(mutual fun).
The gift a plant named Shaoyao implies 还要 Haiyao “one more time”. You see their relationship was mutual. In fact the women proposed the invitation.
Actually before 秦始皇 Qinshihuang, the first ruler of whole China, people were generally very open for sex.
秦始皇’s mother was famous for her sexual desire.
One legend says 秦始皇 was not the son of the former king, but was child of chancellor.
And in order to gain favorite of 秦始皇’s mother,
the chancellor introduced a man with huge penis大阴人.
Record of History 史记 says this man put his genital through a wooden wheel and lift it and walked around in a yard with ease.
It was really after 秦始皇, that central government began to gain so much power and China started to divert from its more liberal days
. The empire wanted it all & exerted more social control & order .
Various emperors dictated some self-serving edicts be added to Confucian texts that Confucius himself would object to, such as the Divine Right of Kings/Emperors.
They emphasized order of family and nation as a family at large.
From that time on, premarital sex found no place in this order.
Mao starting in the 1950s was worse & banned all mention of sex, believing it to be a distraction from work & order, & the Imperial paintings of people having sex & nude statues were banned or destroyed, all porn banned & prostitution made illegal.
Babak Makkinejad,
If growing cannabis (specifically) were thoroughly legalized, who would still try growing it in hiding in National Forests?
http://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2016/07/httpwwwnytimescom20160712upshotsurprising-new-evidence-shows-bias-in-police-use-of-force-but-not-in-shootingshtml.html#tpe-action-resize-382
It’s no wonder that you’re a fan of Donald Trump. He’s just like you. You both say a lot off the top of your head and then when someone calls either one of you on it, that what you said was incorrect you both say that what you said doesn’t matter, or you change your story. Also you both put people down to make yourselves look bigger.
Please provide us all with some proof that Muslims were cheering during the attack on the World Trade Center on 09/11/2001.
“Two steps forward, one step back with you I guess.” You can only guess? Even with the steps you say I take, I’m ahead of you.
Your pointing out that “crime of poor white places (WV) never even touches the kind of crime you see in Detroit, black Chicago, or other black run areas of Baltimore.”, does not prove your point. The crime in those areas are perpetrated by folks who come from broken homes who weren’t loved growing up and had very little parental discipline. Race alone does not explain it.
Mark Gaughan
“are perpetrated by folks who come from broken homes who weren’t loved growing up and had very little parental discipline.” That actually blames the Black community. You would seem to be the very definition of a liberal. pl
jiujiuma
And you have not become emotional in your response? Tyler deliberately is pushing your buttons and you took the bait. You have to learn to deal with people like him without flipping your lid. BTW, Tyler is an old paratrooper who fought in both Afghanistan and Iraq and is now still committed to defending this country with a gun. What have you done beside go to school and the dojo? pl
JiuJitsu,
First, let me point out that in between your pointing and fainting about mean names you actually stated you believe in “climate change”, lmbo. So basically I can dismiss anything you say about your data points if you believe that load of horsesh-t.
Secondly, like most progressives/autists (and there is more than a touch of the ’tism in your labored arguing about how to argue) you fail to recognize what an ad hominem is. Telling someone they’re an idiot is, indeed, an ad hom. Doing what I’m doing, i.e. you’re an idiot, here’s why, is not an ad hom. Its a blending of rhetoric and dialectic.
So you resort to that old tired standby of “you mad”, when in fact it is you who is mad, since obsessively responding to every rejoinder is pretty much the sign of someone who is VERY upset.
Perhaps you should go back to your model Nordic wife (lol) and sit a few plays out? Or maybe go practice another white belt level armbar, Mr. Jiujitsu (lmbo)?
Srsly, do you realize how much of a tryhard you sound like with that name?
oops! Somehow I posted the wrong link. Here’s the one that I meant to post: http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/1995/03/bg1026nbsp-the-real-root-causes-of-violent-crime
Larry Kart,
The population of the US is somewhere between 315 – 320 million. So you’re calc.s are off – almost 2X too high. Even with your inflated numbers (due to the denominator being almost 50% too low), we can see the % of citizens, regardless of color, killed by police is absolutely miniscule. The assertion by BLM – or anyone else – that police are committing a genocide against them is beyond hyperbole. It’s just plain retarded.
Tyler,
LMBO, you have very poor reasoning/logic/analytic skills since everything you wrote is so wrong & laughable & you’re just projecting your own feelings & failings onto others:
1) I’m neutral on man-made global warming .. I mentioned that there is conflicting data on both sides, which means more data is needed.
Climates do naturally change over time since ice core samples show most of the US actually went thru 6+ cycles of being at times covered by glaciers & snow, alternating with being a tropical paradise -with both CO2 levels & temperatures even higher than now 400,00+ years ago –this is a plus on the anti-global warming side.
On the other hand, the pro-global warming side acknowledge this but believe that the current trend of warming is geometrically accelerating much faster than the previous 6 cycles of warming
2) I’m not upset at all (one of my nicknames back in high school was ‘Spock’ for being so logical back on my university Speech & Debate team – why
would words on the internet from a faceless stranger even bother anyone? I always found it odd that people get upset over the littlest things or let debates or arguments bother them
More so, I was raised Buddhist, who’s core philosphy is “Live & Let Live” & “Letting go of your attachments”,ie –don’t sweat the small the stuff — as well as Taoism, which is “go with the flow”, being easy-going
Very opposite of Authoritarian types who are not easy-going, get upset very easily, quick to lose their temper, & project their feelings & failings onto others.. just like you do
3) Replying to rejoinders is a logical reply, step by step, point by point .. such details & numbered responses are standard in university Debate Tournaments as well as scientific debates, which is detail oriented & based on evidence ..I’ve won them –have you?
You sound like you never even attended or understood one with your wild accusations that are so far off the mark
4) Armbars are not taught at the whitebelt level (neither are kneebars) because it’s too dangerous for novices who can tap out too late & get themselves injured when they being practiced on ..and when they are applying it, they can apply too much force too fast before their sparring partner taps out
Of course, you would never know that because most traditional Asian martial arts schools developed originally from Buddhist monks
so
they value & teach harmony, honor, respect as well as self-control & –all
qualities that you evidently lack in your posts –and thus would never accept you as a student (unless the teacher took pity on you or thought he could change you & teach you those virtues) ..
though
I’m sure you can find one of those fake boxing/MMA gyms cashing in by dispensing with the traditional mental/spiritual aspects of martial arts in the US that will teach anyone who will pay
The standard Gracie Jiu-Jitsu gyms are still very traditional, with bowing, teaching respect, honor, etc as befitting any martial art
4) Most people pick self-descriptive internet monikers based on their interests, hobbies, or passions .. like SailingOne@gmail.com or YogaMind@yahoo or Airborne101@yahoo.com or CivilWarMind@whatever.com ..
maybe because you’re so insecure Tyler that you assume everyone also is insecure like you trying to prove themselves
But JiuJitsuMMA is just a name I chose based on a hobby/interest/passion, of which jiu-jitsu & martial arts happen to be one of mine..
have no idea what you think having a hobby as name is trying hard to prove? .. there’s a big difference between JitsuJitsuMMA@whatever.com versus WorldsBestMostAmazingHeroicJiujitMMA@whatever.com 😛
using a regular name like Tyler is so boring, mundane, inside-the-box thinking..
unless you mean Tyler Durden from “Fight Club” movie but if so, most people would use the full Tyler Duren name
5) You fail so badly at analysis & prediction, it sounds like you never passed a psychology class either
when has a “feral negro” ever kicked in your door that you so predict will happen?
Please tell me, oh Psychic Miss Cleo, we’re all dying to read your Freudian ananalysis & predictions… so you can send us all winning lottery numbers too
(I’m just joking here at #5, Freud & Freudian analysis was actually discredited but unfortunately, Fruedian is still believed to be an authority by those uneducated in psychology, which sounds just like you Tyler)
P.S. My wife isn’t of Nordic ancestry (another wrong analysis/assumption on your part. Blue-eyes, blonde hair isn’t exclusive to Nordics —
she
actually has Ukrainian-Russian ancestry (note that DNA tests have shown that most people of Russian ancestry have 20% Asian DNA from 230+ years of being part of Genghis Khan’s Mongolian Empire)
jiujitsumma & Tyler
enough of that on both sides. Be civil or I will suspend you both. pl
Tyler,
LMBO, another wrong analysis/prediction by you Tyler .. actually I’m about 5’8″ & my some of wife’s some my modeling pics when she was younger is in my photo album here https://www.facebook.com/MartialArts714/media_set?set=a.10151945974091804.1073741826.648696803&type=3
Colonel,
I just read your post. To answer you, I never flip my lid over internet posts — I view debates dispassionately as a scientific or collegiate debate tournament –getting upset or angry over internet words is silly since it’s just the internet – internet trolls try to get a rise out of people & accuse, project, & imagine all sorts of
things onto other posters, most often inaccurately
-he’s just trolling but I have responded dispassionately by replying in kind to insults (‘fight fire with fire’ or responding to bullies/trolls).
Anyways, I prefer to have civil debates/discussions & won’t address him further
Eric: Oops — the figure I used for the U.S. population must have come from my lizard brain or memories of eighth grade. But however more minuscule the percentage of deaths from police action is for each racial group once the correct total figure for the population is used as a starting point, is it not still true that the number of blacks killed by police action in 2015, as a fraction of that racial group, is 3.72 times greater than the number of whites killed by police action in 2015, as a fraction of that racial group?
jiujitsumma
If you want to win an argument with me about civility you can but you will be banned from SST if you continue to want to fight with Tyler. Same for him. Childish. pl
Did I say anything about why any of those people — White, Black, Hispanic — were killed by police? I was just saying, if my calculations are correct, that “… the number of Black deaths from police action in 2015 as a percentage of the Black population is 3.72 times greater than the number of White deaths from police action as a percentage of the White population.”
wow, just read all that (it was way past 2 AM so lots of typos, missing phrases, & it should be “300 years of British rule” for India (I mistyped 500) & accidently copied/pasted some passages
(I originally wrote the post in Wordpad, copying & pasting my previous posts in another political forum & transferred some sentences & paragraphs to the chatbox here so sorry if I repeated stuff since it’s a collection of passages from my previous in other forums)
TL;DR
Not sure JiuJitsuMMA really care about arguments, only an ego-stroking troll posting link to his FB photos.
On your number 2, I think Marvin Harris (or you) are wrong.
There used to be a saying in Europe: “Ask a girl from Rhine river area to sit beside you, instead she sleeps with you.”
Marvin Harris is a creative man, no doubt, and I thoroughly enjoyed his book on dietary taboos. And he is an honest scholar in that he puts his ideas clearly on the table – cultural materialism.
But, I think, at times, he is trying too hard to fit the empirical reality to his model.
For example, after World War II, there was a shortage of men in Germany and in USSR but they did not alter their mores and institute polygamy in order to address the physical and emotional of man-less women.
Or in the United States, there African-American women are reluctant to entertain the idea of a European-American man as their mates, even though many Euro-American men find African-American women attractive and are interested in them.
I think Dr. Harris does not give enough credit to the Life of the Mind.
MMA Master,
It is obvious from your essay length posts, attempting to parse what you blathered on about before into something less humiliating, and false jovility that you are indeed triggered as hell by me and I am living in your head.
Please, tell us more how not upset you are. I am all ears.
jld,
He is an amazing example of autism in action when it comes to lack of self awareness.
Sir,
Sorry, this Nice attack has me all punchy.
Larry,
That does not change my point.
JJMMA,
8888888 didn’t read it
JJMMA,
You do realize “LOOK AT THESE PICTURES OF ME HUH HUH TOUGH GUY?!” is absolutely validating my hypothesis about you.
Babak,
2) Culture takes generations to change & evolve.. funny, your quote from the Rhine girl is accurate (surveys show that Germany, like most of Europe, is one of the more sexually open countries.. it’s actually legal to & you can see people sunbathing in the nude in Germany’s city parks & no one cares.. and the saunas/spas are fully nude & co-ed)
Yes, there was a shortage of men in USSR & Germany due to millions of males killed in WW2..
what developed there is that the culture is very accepting of married men having mistresses .. it’s almost expected
Turning to polygamy would almost never happen in Germany/USSR due to deeply ingrained written law (ie, most politicians, voters [especially female voters] would never vote for nor be elected if they voted for polygamy)
Add to this that after WW2, there was actually a food shortage since much of the country’s farmhouses/farmland , transportation, agricultural mills, & farmers were killed or destroyed .. thus their society would also have competing scarcity pressures to be more conservative until the food pressures were gone ..
but being sexually liberal, there are written newspaper reports & accounts of
desperate hungry/starving German women giving sexual favors in exchange for food & increase in prostitution that often happens in areas that are economically deprived
Note that in Germany, like France & most of Western Europe, prostitution is legal (in Eastern Europe, the Communist Party banned prostitution until some Eastern European countries legalized it when Communist Party lost power)
3) http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-race-affects-whether-people-write-you-back/
As for the US, surveys & statistics from Match.com’s OKCupid dating site above (which was created & run by Harvard statisticians & mathematicians) of 25+ million users show that African-American women actually messenged more males of other races (as well as their own)
but
had the lowest rates of men of other races replying back to them -they actually had the lowest rates of other messaging them of all groups
Another data point showed that Asian women actually had the highest rates of males messaging them
The Harvard statisticians added it might be racial preferences or it could be that Asian females have the highest rate of being slim/normal weight & African females had the highest rate of being overweight/fat.
Pictorially, overweight women have the lowest rates of being messaged by males of all races since most males find overweight/fat to be unattractive
Other interesting things from Match/OKCupid’s 25+ million accounts being data mined by the Harvard administrators/creators:
a) Women over age 40 had 90% drop in men messaging them (number of messages falls off a cliff when women reach age 40)
b) Overweight women also had a huge drop in messages compared to slim attractive women:
Whereas an overweight female would get 0 to 2 messages on average a week, a slim attractive female would get 400-1,000+ in a week
Note that statistics show about 70% of the US population is overweight, and 36% are obese.. there is definitely a shortage of slim attractive women in the US
This results in slim attractive females being deluged with attention due to the 1:3 ratio imbalance
c) Females that showed pictures of their cleavage had higher response rates
d) Men who showed their 6-pack abs had higher response rates. Additionally the most attractive males would get an average of 2+ unsolocited messages from women –this is unusual because most women would never message a man first –most men get 0 unsolocitied messages from women
e) Both men & women who showed pics of themself playing a musical instrument had higher response rates
f) Both men & women who had pictures of themselves traveling outdoors to famous locations had higher response rates as well as with animals/pets
Probably because it indicates shared interests in traveling, pets, or playing music according to the studies
Results were replicated & confirmed in other studies also at other sites