If you live outside of Florida I bet you believe that those of us still crazy enough to live here are on borrowed time. It is a Covid hotspot dontcha know. We are on the cusp a bubonic Armageddon. Bodies are piling up in morgues. Nurses and physicians are committing mass suicide out of despair brought on by this plague inflicted by Donald Trump. We're talking wrath of God. Beirut bomb levels of catastrophe. Swarming locusts. Dogs and cats, living together. Mass hysteria. Must be true. I saw it on the TV.
Oh wait, that was Ghostbusters.
Ready for the truth? Can you handle the truth? Let me give you the report for Sarasota and Manatee counties. This is the metro area that encompasses Sarasota and Bradenton. This is the fastest growing area in all of Florida. What is actually happening in terms of Covid should shock you.
Florida is home to 21,933,000 people (see here). How many have succumbed to Covid since March 6, when Florida's Government started keeping tabs on the disease? 7,084. That means 0.032% of the population have died from Covid in the last six months. To put this into perspective, the CDC reports for 2017 that 46,044 Floridians died from heart disease. I do not recall nightly news broadcasts wailing hysterically about fat Floridians eating double cheeseburgers and clogging their arteries. But less than 8,000 deaths in six months and we are supposed to put on masks and hide in our closets? Nonsense.
Let's take a closer look at Sarasota County over the last 30 days. According to the US Census, Sarasota County was inhabited by 433,742 souls as of July 1, 2019. Here are the numbers according to the Florida Covid 19 "Dashboard." Just follow this link and click on Sarasota County. Five thousand nine hundred seventy four Sarasotans tested positive since the first of July (July 7 to be precise). That is 1.3% of the total county population. Hospitalized? 360, which represents 0.08%. How about deaths? 160. That is roughly consistent with the number of deaths recorded state-wide–0.036%.
What about neighboring Manatee County (seat of the city of Bradenton and winter home of the Pittsburgh Pirates)? Manatee has a slightly smaller population than Sarsota, weighing in with 413,655 happy inhabitants. Eight thousand nine hundred fifty six Manatee maniacs tested positive for Covid–i.e., 2.1%. More have been hospitalized–589, which represents 0.14%. The death count is 189 or 0.045%.
Ever hear of the concept of "perspective?" I am sure that the families of those whose kith and kin perished from Covid and/or co-morbidities exacerbated by Covid don't care a whit about the stats. But the truth is the disease is not spreading like wildfire. People are not flooding the hospitals. Just look at today's stats for the major medical center in the region:
Sarasota Memorial Hospital:
Total hospital beds: 839
Today’s patient census: 642
Today's COVID+ patients total: 70 (no change from yesterday)
Most of the media is irresponsible and alarmist. They report positive tests as if those equate with people destined for the hospital and then the morgue. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Yes, Covid is a disease and a very small percentage of the population will die if they contract it. But it is not a health crisis that requires shutting down businesses and forcing kids to stay away from school. It is time for the American people to demand honest reporting and deal with real facts and actual science instead of the voodoo scare tactics being spread by partisan pundits and doctors masquerading as experts.
Larry,
I have a bet that Wuhan virus will magically disappear after the elections.
There you go with facts again Larry. The response to the virus is a giant CovidConJob that was sold as the bubonic plague. This has allowed China to disrupt the entire world’s economy, crush Hong Kong and get their operatives to unleash anti-western agitprop as part of their tarrif response, all with plausibly deniability and “you’re racisist” cover. At home we have the left destroying inner city self reliance via business lock-downs that are bankrupting small businesses; and now internal border checkpoints (remember how outraged the Democrats were when Rhode Island and Florida asked for voluntary isolation because we all believed the death projections of the now memory-holed expert models?).
The greater the visibility to the reality that there is low risk for hospitalization or death for a majority of citizens the more draconian the left becomes. Manadatory masking to get people used to their slave-in-training mask is expanding as a tactic in subjugation to authoritarianism. Big tech is silencing all mention of HCQ and its apparent effectiveness in other nations when given early and in conjction with other drugs. It’s all vaccines – with complete immunity to the manufacturers for any and all potential complications – all the way, damn the cost! We even have unionized teachers extorting school districts for pay for no work and demands their competitors – private and charter schools – be forbidden to operate, all based on “science” that can’t be questioned.
The Florida numbers are so “high” because it has a disproportionately older population. The last time I checked, two thirds of the deaths in my home state Oregon were in nursing homes. Something will eventually deliver the coup de grace to each one of us. Somehow I imagine that CV19 will miraculously fade away after the election…
Larry,
Here’s another chart that might be useful, it compares 1918 flu deaths vs. Covid. Bubonic plague is not, and it is causing the old age deaths of the front end of the baby boomers (and other elderly). Many of the BB generation are fat and frail, we’ll see similar higher death rates for the next decade because they are all approaching old age. A quick look at the Social Security life expectancy chart would help show that.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-one-remarkable-difference-between-covid-19-and-the-1918-spanish-flu-2020-07-07
Not much has changed in the distribution since this was put together at the end of June.
Rupert Beale (Crick Institute) has just published an article on covid-19. He explains the science of making a vaccine, and the 3 main approaches now being attempted. This is real science from a real scientist. He thinks a functional vaccine may be available early next year (2021).
Highly recommended, published yesterday in London Review of Books, here is a link that will take you behind the paywall:
https://outline.com/XUKkT3
From the moment I heard the term ‘pandemic’… I knew. Coup de tat 2.0.
People need to be put to death for this treason. Seriously… to death.
In Canada, there were 8500 Viral Infection deaths in 2018 (per Statistics Canada), and not one business was shut down and the media barely mentioned it…
There have been 8900 Covid deaths this year… deaths are down to single digits for the entire country, yet district councils are passing laws one by one to force masks inside ALL public places!
I’m sure it’s the same around the developed world… the biggest psyop in history… time to let the Emperors know we’re not buying the new clothes thing and put the perps where they belong!
Mate,we have brain dead people in charge in Australia
26 million people
20,000 cases
255 deaths
In our southern state you are locked into your home for the next 6 weeks,masks mandatory for everyone
the rest of australia,state borders closed,thinking of making masks mandatory
just sheep following some supposed version of science,and what the rest of the world is doing
the numbers tell the story,but fear and worst case scenario is driving their lack of reason and logic
The question is really whether the disease should be eradicated or lived with.
My vote goes for eradication. I don’t believe modern Western countries are incapable of dealing with the virus, and incapable of helping out those that aren’t.
If we live with it –
1. We don’t yet know enough about the virus to know what “living with it” means.
2. The wealthier elderly and a fair few less elderly will change their buying habits. Since, I find to my astonishment, the buying habits of the wealthy elderly account for much economic activity that’ll damage an already fragile economy.
3. We’ll never hear the end of it from the New York Times.
But I do wish that this pandemic had stayed merely a complicated public health problem and hadn’t got caught up in politics.
Mr. Johnson, why do you start your post with discussing media “reporting” on (the whole state of) Florida,
but then switch in much of your detailed, and valuable, analysis to merely reporting on the statistics in two counties in Florida?
Why I ask that question:
I live in Virginia.
All the measured statistics for covid vary radically between its counties, driven by a number of factors.
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/
To see the geographical disparities, at that webpage click on “Daily Dashboard”.
For a breakdown down to the county level, click on Demographics, then on “Select Health District”.
I have no reason to assume the situation is different in Florida.
So why should I take your two counties as being typical?
BTW, other notable and documented examples are NY and NJ, where the rates varied dramatically from country to county.
But these criticisms of your methodology are definitely not criticisms of your overall conclusion.
So, who is coordinating this psychological operation, call it Project Fear? I agree that the media promotion of the so-called pandemic will go out like a light after the election, and clearly the DNC is working hard to keep this monstrosity alive until the election. But who is coordination this? And I suspect, given the WEF’s “Global Financial Reset” operation, that this is about a lot more than the DNC and US elections and unleashing the Red Guards on what’s left of the country.
Gov DeSantis is going to allow northerners into our state without quarantine. Taking a jab at Cuomo, he’s asked NY’s governor not to quarantine Floridians into nursing homes.
I’m in Charlotte county just south of Larry’s Sarasota county and just north of Lee county. My county is the oldest demographic in the entire USA. We’re doing better numbers wise than our neighbors for some odd reason. It might be because we don’t have a major city in our county like Sarasota or Fort Myers.
When I talk to someone who’s so afraid to go out, I ask them “what if this thing lasts for 10 years”? Are you willing at your age to lose all that time due to a flu like illness, you’re 70 or so, do you want to spend your retirement in fear? I get the dumbfounded look from them and I just hope it makes them think a bit.
The PCR test is a joke, the counting rules are preposterous, the reporting is done by people with an interest in the outcome. But only crazy conspiracy theorists doubt SETTLED SCIENCE.
Well the crazy conspiracy theorists just won another one.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8599213/Thousands-Covid-19-deaths-wiped-governments-official-toll-counting-fiasco.html
My little County in NE Florida of 820,00 population has 154 deaths in the 65+ grouping out of 2,700 that caught this CRUD. Now I know how miniscule this is but if you check the local pharmacies, prescriptions of Happy Pills, you will find well over a 200% increase since this Crud has arrived.
The difference between the 1918 Pandemic and this Crud is that we all have computers and have become statistically orientated but still cannot put the finger on the bums who are jacking up the numbers for their own financial gain. This is a FLU & if your not dealing with an immobility go find someone who has it and get it over with.
If Trump wins, Covid will continue to be the Zombie Apocalypse. If Biden wins, Covid will be a manageable threat.
Can’t get this image out of my mind: Nancy Pelosi ripping up Trump’s SOTU address, highllghting his administration accomplishments to date. Then Democrats unleashed the Zombie Apocalypse hysteria which dismantled every single Trump re-election bragging rights, one by one.
And they are not letting go. Covid was clearly an opportunity the Democrats and their media henchmen were not going to waste. This played out most brazenly with the LA Teacher union holding school children and parents in covid hostage, until the the school district met every one of their revolutionary “progressive” and unrelated demands.
Democrat teachers unions now currently threaten and violently disrupt millions of Americans lives with their extortion demands. The Democrat face of Big Government got way, way, way too big with that move.
You are warned, this is the face of Biden’s America.
1960’s social revolution against the mass conformity of the 1950’s: Question Authority; Do Your Own Thing: Don’t trust anyone over the age of 35, Follow your bliss; Tune in, Turn on and Drop out; Dawning of the Age of Aquarius – love, peace and understanding; We are one people, one world. Freedom just another word for nothing left to lose.
2020’s: Mass conformity; symbolic allegiance demanded; blindly trust experts; individualism will be crushed and canceled; fear is everywhere, hate is everywhere, violence is everywhere, intolerance is everywhere; freedom is a word that now means you lose everything if you do not conform. We are angry hateful tribes, now eternally divided.
(Cartoon version of the extremes of course) But out of the 1960’s ,there was a new dawning – the Silent Majority rose up and took charge, and urban hippies became suburban yuppies. The mass internet revolution was the unanticipated Black Swan.
Where, what and or who will be the 2020 Black Swan(s)?
Who is coordinating the fear campaign? My trusty fall back – the big due paying government union membership.
In California there are over one million dues paying government employee unions, just in education, police and fire. They pay nearly one billion dollars every year in union dues.
Their union bosses are free to spend this largesse on “public information campaigns”, which includes getting their one million, highly disciplined and coordinated one million members blogging and letter writing, creating “public opinion”. Plus answering opinion polls with their mandated party line.
Key goal – pin both the recent chaos and covid on directly Trump. Peace, love and harmony will again ensue once Trump is gone. And covid will magically become a manageable threat.
Quite honestly, if Trump loses, we all lose. You cannot escape this conclusion, whether you like Trump or not. There is no other choice. Biden is their straw man, now so painfully obvious.
It was the mindless panic over toilet paper that first primed the introduction of the “pandemic” panic into the US. Apparently started by Yahoo News in Australia and spread “like wildfire” across Facebook. Americans were primed to panic first before they even knew the first things about the Chinese corona virus.
A good investigative article about the Great Toilet Paper Panic is a worthy venture at this point in time – that is who and what started it. Quote of the hour at that time only a few months ago: Why are you filling your shopping cart with toilet paper? Because i saw everyone else filling up theirs. I panicked because I saw other people panicking.
Bill wrote:
“When I talk to someone who’s so afraid to go out, I ask them “what if this thing lasts for 10 years”?”
We can dramatically shorten this if we go the “Herd Immunity” route. Of course as with everything there are risks in this approach.
Herd immunity for Covid is estimated to occur when about 70% of the population becomes infected, assuming that reinfection cannot occur in the short term.
The current US fatalities versus infections is .033
70% of the US population is 244 million.
If those citizens under say 50 years would start going out and party hearty to speed up this pandemic we could possibly reach herd immunity by election day.
We’ve got a long way to go and time is of the essence. So far we have only 4.9 million cases to date, we need at least 244 million infections and nearly 8 million Covid deaths before November.
My wife and I are both over 70 so unfortunately we won’t be able to take part. We’ll just hang back and wait until you do your duty, then go shopping for a new home as soon as the financial collapse gets underway.
Another thing:
1) This strategy would lessen the need for a vaccine. It should meet the approval of the anti-vaxers.
2) The anti-maskers will love it.
3) It’ll teach Fauci a lesson.
Keep your sunny side up and lets get rolling!
Good Luck
Mike46
The population of the US is 328 million. If the number of deaths so far in the US is accepted at 200K, then the national COVID-19 death rate computed against the whole population is .06%
Wear a mask and shut up.
America in 2020 – a “nation” of cowering sheep.
And I’m very discouraged that this collection of dimwits will actually elect a corrupt career politician with dementia.
Mike46, If people want to stay home to avert the flu I’ve no problem with that but I think they need to understand that the authorities are going to get more authoritarian as time goes on, witness Melbourne Australia, you might be there in your home for a while, a good long while. I remember back when the crisis was going to be “just two weeks of quarantine”.
Myself, I’m practically your age. My wife and I stay in good shape. In our circle of friends of our age group only one other woman is in what I would call height/weight proportionate state. Quite a few are obese so I can understand why they self-quarantine, the virus for them is a real death threat.
Yes, we will take your advice. We’re going out to eat tonight and then headed to a bar for some karaoke. I’m not a fan of karaoke but a much younger friend is singing and I’m wanting to buy him a few beers as he’s broke. He was an up and coming entrepreneur but the virus has ruined his business, he’s likely to lose his condo in the near future as well. You probably wouldn’t want to buy it though as real estate in Florida is going up and not down. My realtor friend tells me that mucho northeners are making inquiries, I’m wondering how you’ll sell your current house to buy a new one real cheap if everyone is so broke?
“The population of the US is 328 million. If the number of deaths so far in the US is accepted at 200K, then the national COVID-19 death rate computed against the whole population is .06%”
Sir:
You missed a zero.
It’s .006.
TV
Did you multiply by 100 at the end to get a %?
I live in Onondaga County in upstate NY. The population is approximately the same as the Sarasota area. We have had approximately 2000 cases and 200 deaths. Most deaths were front loaded by Cuomo’s criminal order the return positive elderly back to nursing homes. the largest single cluster outside of NYC was at a massive foreign owned sweatshop greenhouse operation employing “guest workers”, housed 2 to a bed, 4 to a room. 300 positives. BTW, they pay no local taxes and get subsidized electricity.
Having said all that, people here understand that this thing can get bad by pretending “this is just the flu”. Mask compliance is 100%. most significant is the county’s positive rate is now below 1% and there are maybe 15 current hospitizations. Our numbers never got anywhere near Sarasota hospitalizations. Half of last week’s positives were from out of state travel.
The economy here is mostly OPEN. You can go anywhere and buy anything. Gyms are closed, but you can go to a bar and drink if you buy a bag of chips or nuts. Restaurants and malls are open.
Lockdown and masks have paid off. Politicizing public health has consequences. DeSantis, Abbott and Ducey found out the hard way. Maybe Larry will learn. If not, organize herd immunity parties because you believe this is a nothing burger!
Lastly, Cuomo and DeBlasio should be thrown out for not locking down in early March. Thousands died as a result.
Colonel:
The current number of deaths as a fraction of the population tells little about how many will die on the road to herd immunity. Why? Because only 4.9 out of 328 million (1.5% minimum) of the population) have been infected so far. This is based on confirmed cases – actual infections are several (many?) times more since there are many with no symptoms who are now immune. Which means we are likely a lot closer to the herd immunity goal.
We need to have about 70% (230 million) of the population infected to reach immunity, but we really don’t know how many have been infected so far.
At first I thought these numbers would be straightforward and easy to find. They aren’t. The only publicly available data I could find are some serology studies done in April with wildly varying results. As high 23% in NYC and low as 1% in Utah. A lot has changed since April.
Colonel,
“The population of the US is 328 million. If the number of deaths so far in the US is accepted at 200K, then the national COVID-19 death rate computed against the whole population is .06%”
That is not very accurate way to evaluate the impact. There are areas that densely populated, and there are areas that are sparsely populated. So the statistics for the whole population does not describe the impact of this epidemic at all.
What we want to look at is the Excess Deaths. How the death counts for each State are different from previous several years, regardless of cause of deaths. And when we go down to County level, it’s even more accurate, but the States data is enough to see the impact.
https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid19/excess_deaths.htm
For the whole country, there were at least 155K excess deaths from Feb 1st to July 25th. And the more densely populated some city/county in a State is, the more excess deaths. For example, New York (State) number is about 25K, California is 7K. Down the list, Kentucky number is about 300.
mike46
Whatever the number is it will be tiny part of the population, but I disagree with your premise. IMO the virus is widespread in the US and it has little effect on the young.
TonyL
It is satisfactory to me. You will like it better after the election.
Bill Wade:
It’s our first home that we purchased 40 years ago. It’s not worth much in today’s market and never will be – too small.
The political narrative must move from Democrat’s Zombie Apocalypse to a GOP “manageable threat”.
Data will be the same; but the labeling must change. Who will do this …first? The numbers do not and never did support the ZombieApocalypse threat but someone for some agenda whipped up fear in this nation to reach that level of mob hysteria.
Or do we wait until Biden wins and suddenly “covid” instantly become a “manageable threat” and everything can go back to normal again. Thank you President Biden.
Tough call for the Democrats to make this shift to a “manageable threat” right now, because their entire game plan depends on continuing the Zombie Apocalypse threat – Biden stays in the basement, Trump can’t have rallies, no debates, Durham witnesses and grand juries can’t be convened.
But it would be a good idea for Trump to own the ” manageable threat” expectation, even if the timing does not allow him to make the semantic shiftt right now – he can at least insert it into the dialogue as a future message of hope. He has to change the narrative and deprive Pelosi and the Democrats running with their current Trump committed mass genocide attack campaign.
Are we facing a mass genocide or a manageable threat? Who will own this dialogue. What motivated the timing ofFDR’s – “You have nothing to fear but fear itself” speech? I think we are close to being in the same place.
“…the authorities are going to get more authoritarian…”
Bill Wade,
Absolutely! This was a test run. Nothing debated either in Congress or state legislatures and laws passed. Instead, we had state governors & county public health officials issue edicts that forced the population to stay at home and shutter businesses.
Now they can loot and plunder at a scale with no constraints. If the people get restless, then claim a pandemic or whatever “emergency du jour” and shut everything down.
Ariz Governor pushing back against Biden’s basement dissing Arizona and accusing Trump of intentional mass genocide:
https://www.redstate.com/alexparker/2020/08/07/donald-trump-doug-ducey-joe-biden-get-out-of-basement/
Short and sweet. Bravo!
Our small central Calif coastal burg is seeing a rapid uptick in home sales too – you can get two homes for the price of one in the SF Bay Area. That is one way they do it – sell the over-priced one in the Bay Area (to whom?- wealthy Indian computer engineers I suppose) buy one here, and bank the difference.
Work online or retire early on the cash-out. Lots to not like about California; but once one finds a safe harbor, it can’t be beat. Our safe harbor is our advanced age – some other generation will have to sort out the mess California created for itself these past 20 years, but on their time; not ours.
Upstater,
There are a few major differences bewteen Onondaga County and Sarasota County.
1. The median age in Onondaga is 39 vs 56 in Sarasota County.
2. Economy. Because the age profile is different Onondaga has 50,000 more people in the work force, I posit that means 50,000 retirees in Sarasota, which would push the age and risk profile higher.
3. Weather. It doesn’t snow down in that part of Florida, and the Gulf of Mexico causes a higher humidity level year around, especially in the summer. That has a noticable affect on resperatory infections.
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/onondaga-county-ny
https://datausa.io/profile/geo/sarasota-county-fl
As to your sweatshop, “housed 2 to a bed, 4 to a room. 300 positives. ”
How many died, what age were they and when? Oh, look, that was three months ago and Oh Canada! It was a Canadian firm using migrant labor, which disputes the “2 to a bed” report. What happened since then, as the paper conveniently provides no update?
https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus/2020/05/inside-green-empire-farm-upstate-nys-biggest-coronavirus-outbreak-slams-migrant-workers.html
“DeSantis,… found out the hard way.” No, he refused to destroy the economy of Florida for political reasons. See the data from two links (Onondaga/Sarasota counties) and check the state level data on Covid 19 hospitalizations/deaths (state wide data) as of 8/6.
NY 89,995 and 25,190
FL 30,114 and 8,051
The data proves Desantis did a much better job than Cuomo. Though the latter certainly wasn’t helped by comrade De Blasio.
Deap You misquoted Roosevelt “You have nothing to fear but fear itself”.
It’s “We have nothing to fear but fear itself”. Big difference in meaning, Trump probably would have used ‘You’ also
All’
The best line in the movie is Bill Murray saying “Yes, mayor, this man has no dick.”
https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-08-06/moralizing-about-coronavirus-policy-doesn-t-help-stop-the-coronavirus
I believe no one really knows with any degree of precision the reality of the Wuhan virus. Lockdown and shuttering of businesses and schools by authoritarian diktat has surprisingly gone unchallenged in supposedly free societies. That says a lot about the people and how easily they can acquiesce to giving up liberty when afraid.
Jack: “Lockdown and shuttering of businesses and schools by authoritarian diktat has surprisingly gone unchallenged in supposedly free societies.”
Perhaps more people than you credit take the view that the job of “government” is to “govern”.
Jack: “That says a lot about the people and how easily they can acquiesce to giving up liberty when afraid.”
You haven’t given up any liberty whatsoever. The government is simply using authority that it has always possessed – even if seldom exercised because it has seldom been necessary.
Here is a radical thought: the government has, indeed, thought this to be necessary. And the people have “acquiesced” because they happen to agree that this is necessary.
As I said, a radical idea…. but at least it is one that credits “the people” as something more than a crowd of unthinking automatons.
Yeah, Right,
“… “the people” as something more than a crowd of unthinking automatons.”
More accurately a crowd of easily cowed conformists only now beginning to awake to the systemic duplicty of the elites; Russia collusion, Ukraine Impeachment, and “Mostly Peaceful” protests not having had the complete enlightenment affect upon all the true believers yet.
“they happen to agree that this is necessary.” That is hardly the case in the US.
“The government is simply using authority that it has always possessed”
The multiple state governments forbidding religous services, from Easter to today, and regulating how they can – or can not – take place have no such authority under the federal or state constitutions. They equally have no authority to declare people “non-essential”.
Fred,
“The multiple state governments forbidding religous services, from Easter to today, and regulating how they can – or can not – take place have no such authority under the federal or state constitutions. They equally have no authority to declare people “non-essential”.
During a pandemic, i.e. public health emergency, the goverment do have the legal authority to do all that. As a citizen, you can disagree with their decision to enforce the law.
If and when Trump declares martial law, I will be waiting to hear your opinion about that.
Fred, this is very simple: if you consider that Federal or state – authorities are making regulations on issues that they do not have the authority to regulate then you can seek redress in the courts.
Go get ’em, tiger.
TonyL
I have looked at the force structure of the regular forces and the NG as well as the federal police. IMO there are not enough forces to declare martial law and enforce it across the country.
Yeah, Right,
The courts? Ask Mike Flynn how that’s working out. Or all those mass incarcerated black males currently in prison.
TonyL,
“During a pandemic, i.e. public health emergency, the goverment do have the legal authority to do all that.”
Where does that stem from, as restrictions on government control of religion and speach are expressly forbidden in the Constitution? I can’t find declarations of “non-essential” status there either, other than the parts about slaves being 3/5ths human and American Indians not counted. Both having been amended long ago.
Colonel,
“IMO there are not enough forces to declare martial law across the country”
I’m glad to hear that. The limitation of forces domestically would be another restraint to the dictatorial tendency the POTUS might or might not have.
I always think what make this nation an exceptional country is the US Constitution, the Freedom of Speech most of all, and the opportunities provided to a person to be what he/she aspires to be. Not the military or economic power that we have been projecting or using to supress others to become our vassals all over the world.
RE: “Fred, this is very simple: if you consider that Federal or state – authorities are making regulations on issues that they do not have the authority to regulate then you can seek redress in the courts.
Here is the opinion of the USSC (from The National Law Review) in case you missed it:
U.S. Supreme Court Upholds California’s COVID-19 Restrictions on Religious Worship
Monday, June 1, 2020
In a 5-4 decision, the U.S. Supreme Court denied an application for injunctive relief filed by South Bay United Pentecostal Church (Church) challenging California Governor Gavin Newsom’s Stay-At-Home order and 4-stage reopening plan as it relates to religious worship gatherings. The Church, which has between 3 and 5 services each week with 200 to 300 congregants, sought to enjoin the restrictions which limit attendance at places of worship to 25% of building capacity or a maximum of 100 people. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit denied the Church a temporary restraining order and preliminary injunction to enjoin the religious worship restrictions. A week later, the Supreme Court denied the Church’s application for injunction relief. Justices Ginsburg, Breyer, Kagan and Sotomayor voted to deny the injunction but did not write an opinion. Chief Justice Roberts concurred in denying the injunction and filed a short opinion. Justice Kavanaugh filed a dissenting opinion, which was joined by Justices Thomas and Gorsuch. Justice Alito dissented but did not write an opinion.
Chief Justice Roberts then noted that California’s guidelines “appear consistent” with the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment because “[s]imilar or more severe restrictions apply to comparable secular gatherings, including lectures, concerts, movie showings, spectator sports, and theatrical performances, where large groups of people gather in close proximity for extended periods of time.” He wrote that dissimilar activities such as operating grocery stores, banks, and laundromats, are exempted or treated more leniently. According to Chief Justice Roberts, these activities are dissimilar to religious gatherings because “people neither congregate in large groups nor remain in close proximity for extended periods.” He concluded by stating that responding to the threat of COVID-19 – an “area[] fraught with medical and scientific uncertainties” – should be left to political officials, not an unelected federal judiciary.”
https://www.natlawreview.com/article/us-supreme-court-upholds-california-s-covid-19-restrictions-religious-worship
Mike46,
That’s denial of an injunction, not a settlement of a case. Once again where in the constitution is that power? But I do like the … fraught with medical and scientific uncertainties” There’s less and less uncertainty every day, especially at any ‘protest’ beneficial to the political left. Justice Roberts has no compunction for making political decisions as an unelected judge, Obamacare being one and denying Senator Paul the ability to ask who the whistleblower was during impeachment another.
Fred, not wanting to be over-dramatic about this, but if you are going to deny the right of a goverment to “govern” and also dismiss the courts as a means of redress against a goverment that oversteps or abuses its authority then you are as much an anarchist as the antifa crowd.
Fred: “Once again where in the constitution is that power?”
Justice Roberts: ….”the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment”.
It’s almost as if he was talking directly to you, Fred, but you just refuse to listen.
Yeah, Right,
I acknowledge your expertise in quoting Roberts, who ruled on an injuction not a law, which puts this right back to the locals who are saying that yes, gambling in a Casino is safer than attending religous services, because “science”. I hear him loud and clear, political science is important, religous services not. He’s destroying his and the court’s image of impartiality and just conduct rather well.
I’m sure the folks being economicly impoverished will be made whole by the “right to govern” government that declares them non-essential, orders the police off the streets when antifa shows up, releases those charged with crimes immediately, empties prisons, and chases the mask-less for violation of the orders of local government executive. This is how your fellow communist sympathizers sow disention. Feel free to lable, or libel, away from down under. Like you I’m not in NYC, Portland, Seattle or Minneapolis. I’m equally not in terror of a viral infecct so dangerous you have to be tested to tell you had it and 99.6% who do survive. The kabuki won’t last too much longer.
The trouble is that America thinks it’s fighting the battle of the Bulge in the Ardennes. The truth is more like Napoleons retreat from Moscow. You are thinking tactics, not logistics.
What makes this virus so dangerous is not it’s lethality but it’s infectious characteristics. It is infectious for a number of days BEFORE you have symptoms. It therefore requires the public to have the intellectual ability to realise that locking the stable door after the horse has bolted is not a winning strategy.
But statistics! Yes, how about statistics; here’s one. You have five million confirmed cases. That is just 1.6% of the population. Care to think what a 16% case load might do to the health system? Think logistics!
That is why doctors and epidemiologists are running around with their hair on fire.
walrus
Only the hysteria has to do with the hospital statistics. You are stoking the fires.
Fred: “gambling in a Casino is safer than attending religous services, because “science”.”
Because “common-sense”, Fred.
There is a reason why attendance of religious services is called a “congregation”.
I’ll give you three guesses why that name is chosen, and why that makes it impossible for the authorities to exempt religious services from social-distancing limits.
As I said: “common-sense”, which seems to be in very short supply nowadays.
Yeah, Right,
Congregation: a group of people assembled for religious worship. Casinos are where people crowd together to spend money, drink, eat and socialize.
Walrus,
you mean people aren’t going to die at the rate the fear mongers have been propagandizing for months. “Think logistics!” I don’t recall NYC using that hospital ship at anything near capacity, nor LA. Nor do I hear any calls to build new ICU units. On a completely unrelated notes is there any word on how that professor with the Imperial College model is doing, still employed and still screwing his mistress? (Unlike millions around the world, who are now unemployed and getting screwed by government at multiple levels. )
Fred: “This is how your fellow communist sympathizers sow disention.”
No, you appear to be quite capable of sowing dissension on your own.
In this very thread you have decried the authority of governments to govern by declaring their decisions to be unconstitutional, while being equally dismissive of a decision of the US Supreme Court which, very obviously, is constitutionally authorized to make such a decision.
Cognitive dissonance, writ large.
And, again, in this very thread you have both been dismissive the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court on the basis that he is unelected, while being equally dismissive of regulations authorized by State Governors who, indisputably, are elected to their office.
Cognitive dissonance, times two.
Because you appear to be cherry-picking your principles based on nothing more than your prejudices.
Fred: “The kabuki won’t last too much longer.”
Yes, yes, and I’m sure there is a little humbug of a man hidden behind the curtain.
Or… maybe not. Maybe all that you are fuming against is a government that governs, and a judiciary that judges, and both taking their advice (though, I’ll point out, not their marching orders) from the best expert advisors that they can find.
Imperfectly, yes, just like everywhere else in the world.
But here is a dangerous thought: they may be right, and you may be mistaken.
Colonel,
“IMO there are not enough forces to declare martial law across the country”
I’m very glad to hear your assessment. The limitation of forces domestically would be another restraint to the dictatorial tendency the POTUS might or might not have.
Meanwhile in the Black and Blue revolutationary lands:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8612317/Cook-County-prosecutor-Kim-Foxx-dismissed-25-000-felony-cases-including-Jussie-Smollett.html
25,000 felony cases dismissed by the prosecutor. That bodes well for “justice”. In Seatle the left scored a victory by convincing the black police chief to resign and Portland, well what’s not on CNN doesn’t happen.
https://twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1293073982061608960
Yeah, Right,
I am grieved that a resident of Austarlia is so hurt by my comments.
“decried the authority of governments to govern”
Not so. I posit that the governments mandating that some conduct of citizens can be declared “non-essential” to be unconstitutional by both multiple state and the federal constitutions. Public safety was the same rationale used by FDR in incarcerating Japanese Americans in 1942. As to the Chief Justice, I’m sure he’s a nice guy. I disagree with his judgement and am in no way dismissive of him, though am of your legal reasonings as non-American pontificating on what the United States should do, though they are, in their own way, quite humourous.