Murder is murder.


I was on the VMI Judo team as a cadet.  This was a "club" sport as opposed to a varsity sport, but we traveled to matches in the eastern parts of the US.  Yes, I had my ass whipped all over the place, had a couple of  broken bones (small bones).  You heal well at that age.   You get the idea, not a great athlete but a willing participant for several years.  The experience was very useful during my army career.   This was not because I was a "sidewalk superman."  No, it was because the experience built up my self-confidence.

I learned a lot.  One of the basics was concerned with chokeholds.  These are legal in Judo with certain restrictions.  The method is simple.  From the facing opponent position you cross your wrists, grasp the lapels of the person's judogi and rotate your arms inward so that your forearms press against the carotid arteries.  If he can't break loose he loses consciousness in ten or twelve seconds from oxygen starvation in the brain.  From a position behind the opponent you do a similar thing with the same result.

In Judo, when the opponent claps his hands you immediately release him.  If he loses consciousness you immediately release him.  Why?   He  will die if you maintain the pressure on the carotid artery or arteries.

Are we supposed to belief that the ass in blue did not know that?  The man was unarmed, was cooperative and was handcuffed.  Other asinine policemen (please don't call every cop an "officer") stood around and watched as their colleague ignored the pleas of the victim and onlookers to let him up.

Murder is murder.  Throw the book at them.  At the same time let us remember that these were Minneapolis police, not state of Minnesota or federal police.  pl

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86 Responses to Murder is murder.

  1. walrus says:

    Agree with Col. Lang. I had this discussion with Policeman Son today. He is also appalled. He questioned why the police thought they needed to act so quickly and didn’t let up – undue haste. The guy was already cuffed and supine, what’s the hurry? – was his comment.

  2. Eric Newhill says:

    The video is hard to watch. The cop killed that guy with intent and malice (=murder) and the cop’s partner just watches. Right out in the street in daylight. Why the cops weren’t arrested days ago is beyond my ability to comprehend. Minneapolis seems like a fairly liberal city with liberal government. That makes the failure to arrest even weirder.

  3. ex PFC Chuck says:

    As a native Minnesotan who’s lived here all but 12 years of my live I agree. I’ve seen two conflicting narratives of what the alleged offense was: forging a check; and passing a counterfeit $20 bill. If it was the latter, the irony is he may well not have any idea the note was a fake. Floyd was a bouncer at a nightclub and may well have received it as a tip.

  4. Deap says:

    Be sure to view the six minute street security camera footage leading up to this fatal incident. Something happened between the clearly professional conduct of the policemen shown in that preceding six minutes, and this ultimately fatal event a few minutes later.

  5. Pollychrome says:

    Thanks, honored Colonel.  YES, what horror: the arse-in-blue murdered George Floyd, but worse, slowly TORTURED him to death, as the poor soul gasped for life, and the killer’s hench-slobs cruelly looked on and must have kept aghast witnesses away.

  6. Jack says:

    Footage prior to the choke hold.
    I don’t get why looting Target is the right response by some folks in Minneapolis. The focus ought to be on an impartial investigation and then holding people accountable. Unfortunately there is a lot of cynicism as we’ve seen time and time again a two tier justice system. Roger Stone vs Jim Clapper. Both lied to Congress.
    Then there’s this story of Archie Williams. Prosecutors blocked for years the matching of crime scene fingerprints with the FBI’s national database.

  7. Grumete Elora Danan says:

    Thank you, Pat, for saying this. De Opreso Liber!
    Elora does not know whether you will be able to view this video in the US, or it will be censored by Twitter, but in it gets very clear the process through which this US citizen died. The man keeps stating he can not breath, it seems that he even called for his mama ( most probably seeing he was about to die…), to then lose conscience, but the ass in blue does not loosen a bit the presure, he kneeels on him as if it were a vermin…Gets obvious the life of the balck man has no value for him…
    Just what was needed in the middle of the social and economic disaster caused by the pandemic…
    Do not you have the impression that there is a sector of people in the US ( and everywhere for that matter, this happens also in Spain…)that want to stir up things to the very limit so as to provoke a national confrontation, being the certain chaos provoked by the measures on the pandemic what they were expecting as alibi to set everything in fire?

  8. Serge says:

    Yes, a really horrifying thing to see, especially the length of time it went on. On the TV I’ve only seen short seconds-long clips with the dead man’s face blurred out. You don’t get the full effect of how terrible this was, as you do from watching the unedited video.

  9. Laura Wilson says:

    Agreed and useful information. Thank you.

  10. srw says:

    Just read this:
    Klobuchar Declined to Prosecute Cop Who Killed Floyd
    While serving as Minnesota’s chief prosecutor between 1999 and 2007, Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) “declined to bring charges against more than two dozen police officers who had killed citizens while on duty – including against the officer that killed George Floyd” in Minneapolis this week, MintPress News reports.
    The Washington Post examined Klobuchar’s record as a prosecutor early last year: “As a prosecutor in heavily white Minnesota, Amy Klobuchar declined to go after police involved in fatal encounters with black men.”
    I would definitely say Klobuchar is off Biden’s short list for VP!

  11. blue peacock says:

    “Something happened between the clearly professional conduct of the policemen….”
    The video also shows that George Floyd was compliant during the period of the video clip and did not resist arrest.
    No matter what occurred the cop had no business asphyxiating Floyd to death especially since he was already handcuffed and prone on the street and there were other officers in the immediate vicinity.

  12. Christian J Chuba says:

    I was surprised to see at how few publicly free videos are available there are to view this. In the few seconds I saw I was struck by the demeanor of the officer who pinned him on the ground. He looked like someone who was gleeful as in ‘yeah, this is how my instructor taught me to do this’.
    We can punish the officer but find out who trained him. BTW I wrestled High School and college. The great thing about wrestling was that it taught you how to overpower someone without injuring them. But once in High School I think I broke a kids rib without even realizing it but I was overwhelmed with the moment. So I recognize the look and loathe it.
    In college, someone tore my ACL. In High School someone broke nose so I got my karma. I do not like bullies. I go out of my way to make everyone comfortable in my ever weakening presence.
    Break the cycle, who trained him, do better.

  13. Fred says:

    I agree. The video Jack linked too makes you wonder just what made the assailant kill this man.
    Grumete Elora Danan ,
    “Just what was needed in the middle of the social and economic disaster caused by the pandemic…Do not you have the impression that there is a sector of people in the US …that want to stir up things to the very limit so as to provoke ”
    Sure looks that way to me. The pandemic is over, the red states have shown that it is long past time to get back to work. The other news bodes ill for the left – the deaths due to response to the pandemic – which affected Black and elderly Americans the most, the job losses due to state governor’s orders, the media campaign of fear, the ongoing local and state government control of Americans, covering up China’s complicity in the spread of the virus, the outsourcing of manufacturing and a whole lot more – all were going to blow up come election day and in a way that would leave them out of power for a generation if the election were honest. This tragedy is now the political media narrative globally. I’m sure President Xi and the staff surrounding that guy in the Biden Bunker will take full advantage of it.

  14. Christian J Chuba says:

    BTW sorry if my last post got too personal
    The worst thing I did was break a kid’s rib in a one-on-one wrestling match when we were both the same weight with a referee standing over us. Today we have one cop choking the victim with another cop looking over him.
    In my situation, it did not even occur to me to choke him. Even IF he wanted to resist, the hold I had on him was very brutal. I had my forehead pressed against his temple (above his ear) and my knee against his ribcage and a lot of pressure.
    Sorry for relieving my youth but this is my experience.
    Let’s suppose that my vaunted ‘cross face cradle’ went out with Buster Crabbe movies, okay, but do we still need choke holds? Why can’t Mixed Martial Arts guys teach our Police how to subdue people without killing them?
    UNZ claims that the most brutal part of the IDF is training our Police. Please tell me they are wrong. Who was the Dutch guy on ‘Kevin can Wait’, he seemed like a nice guy, if he’s an Israeli, I’m 100% cool with that as long as he’s good.

  15. Seward says:

    What can you expect from Minneapolis. (I’m from St. Paul.)

  16. ex PFC Chuck says:

    I posted that Mint Press News link elsewhere earlier this am and a commenter later said the previous refusal to press charges came after her she had left the prosecutor job for the US Senate. I haven’t had the time yet since to check that out, but she was notorious for giving police violence a pass during her watch.
    Jack, up-thread.
    Target is HQed here in the Twin Cities and it’s my understanding that particular store had been their test bed for loss prevention techniques for roll-out to the rest of their properties. Some of what they tried out there didn’t go down well with that inner city community and as a result the store became a focal point of dissatisfaction. Not justifying; just explaining a factor involved.

  17. Terence Gore says:

    No excuse for the murder.
    No excuse for the destruction and looting.

  18. Ray pugh says:

    Eyewitness account from Target store in St. Paul
    This was from our daughter who was working today at Target in St. Paul….
    Tale of the Twin Cities…..after a police killing
    From our daughter who is 25 who works at the Midway St. Paul Target.
    Ok so just an update: the Target I work at was swarmed with people intending to loot today around 11:20am. Management knew it was going to happen but did not formulate any plan for employees beforehand, so when we were told to seek shelter half of us ended up stuck in the back of the store and half of us were stuck in the front break room. We were effectively trapped in confined quarters as we waited for the police response. There was a lot of crying and frantic calling of loved ones
    I was late to getting to shelter because nobody thought to tell the pharmacists so I doubled back for them. Luckily they were able to lock up the medications. A local CVS was not so lucky and their prescriptions were fully looted
    Since I was one of the last people to get back to safety I saw the rush of people coming in through the front doors and holy shit… even though it was only probably around 50 people total, it was terrifying
    I’ve been listening in to police scanners since I got home (the store is fully shut down) and it sounds like windows have been smashed and looters are trashing the store, so I’m not sure if I have a job anymore.
    Looters have also gone to the Roseville Target, the East St. Paul Target, Maplewood Target, and Rosedale Mall
    Everyone in the twin cities area, don’t go out if you can help it! I have a friend living in an apartment a few blocks off Grand Ave and the police have made them create emergency bags and evacuated the area
    While the people looting weren’t super interested in the employees evacuating, multiple employee’s cars were broken into and vandalized because their owners fled the stores and didn’t want to deal with the madness in the parking lot to go get them
    The one good note: I got the email test results back for my Covid-19 nasal swab as the cops were trying to clear the front doors for us to get out. I’m negative! Yay!
    2020 has been a garbage year.

  19. elaine says:

    Wisconsin law differs from many states IMO. After a quick search on topic it appears felony murder charges may not be brought due to
    the difficulty to prove premeditation. Intentional homicide could
    also be difficult to prove or maybe not…
    More likely a charge of reckless & negligent homicide will be brought. The state must prove every element of the crime.
    Shame on that sadist, craven cop & even if he outranked the other
    cops, there’s no excuse for their behavior. Bring charges asap!

  20. Babak makkinejad says:

    Eric Newhill
    So, all of a sudden, you, a denigrator of Law, are shocked, shocked that the Law is violated and, in this case, by the Officers of the Law.
    That is really rich.
    What happened to the Constitution of the United States? Or the Constitution of the State of Minnesota?
    And is it not time for you to climb down from your high horse and admit that the United States has very deep social problems that will not be resolved by fighting the Muslims, the Russians, and the Chinese of this world?
    Quite clearly, Liberty without Law is License, in this case to murder a man in broad daylight with seeming glee and impunity.
    I am not White, I am Beige, but I am deeply angered by this incident.
    And what succor your Spiritual orientation can bring to the relatives and relations of this man?
    Who is free in the United States and who is protected by the Law?

  21. akaPatience says:

    Thank you for saying this colonel. I’m weary of the tendency towards hagiography regarding law enforcerment when OF COURSE, just as in any other profession, there are some bad ones like this cop and his partners in MN.

  22. Jose says:

    “Life is a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel.” ― Jean Racine
    After watching this, I’m leaning to manslaughter:

  23. anon says:

    Controlled force.nice and casual.and done in full view,so definitely a message

  24. BillWade says:

    Seems “Hollywood -ish” to me. I guess I’ve seen video of most of the riots over the past 60 years but I’ve never seen Whites involved except as victims.

  25. Harry says:

    Quite so. But I doubt the Minneapolis authorities will be able to so do. Police unions are a powerful and organised political force. I suspect what we will see is something performative, followed by the matter being quietly downgraded later.
    But police departments run the risk of undermining their moral authority by tolerating the minority of bad actors. They should act to ensure the rule of law. Or where are any of us?

  26. turcopolier says:


  27. Barbara Ann says:

    So now Twitter has decided that the POTUS is glorifying violence with the words “when the looting starts, the shooting starts”.
    Whether you agree or not seems less important to me than whether you think private social media companies should be allowed to make these kind of decisions and block selected content. Trump has now signed an executive order with some provisions for the FCC to regulate online platforms. I don’t think this is the right way to go. My guess is this route will prove difficult and ultimately Trump will leave Twitter & take the whole administration with him to the conservative platform Gab. Who knows, we could end up with a Coke/Pepsi dichotomy in social media patronage as future administrations come into office.

  28. Fred says:

    “The state must prove every element of the crime.”
    Just like with Justine Diamond, whose killer, also an on duty Minneapolis police officer, was convicted and recieved a 12 1/2 year prison sentance. The media, however, are interested in ratings not in discovering every element of a crime. The video from TMZ (posted by Jack, above) shows 6 minutes or so of video coverage at the start but is edited to end before the officer is seen to have his knee on Floyd’s neck. What happened in between is going to come out later.

  29. rho says:

    ex PFC Chuck,
    “Target is HQed here in the Twin Cities and it’s my understanding that particular store had been their test bed for loss prevention techniques for roll-out to the rest of their properties. Some of what they tried out there didn’t go down well with that inner city community and as a result the store became a focal point of dissatisfaction.”
    What exactly are those “loss prevention techniques”? Does it have something to do with making shoplifting more difficult, and that pissed off the thugs so much that they were looking for an excuse to burn the whole store down?

  30. BillWade says:

    I’ve been reading:
    that the “knee on neck” tactic is used by Israeli police forces and is not an American tactic.
    Officer Chauvin(ist)’s neighbor didn’t know he was a cop, “thought he was a realtor”.
    An undercover police officer started the violence, used a hammer to break the first window while other protestors told him to stop, he slinked off under cover of an umbrella.
    The cop and the deceased worked together as security for a night club. The club was sold a few months ago. The former owner is a “La Raza” supporter.
    I understand that there will be complexities regarding how this cop should be charged and this will take some time to figure out. But, why haven’t him and the other cops been arrested yet and held pending investigation?
    We pay the police to keep the peace, not to run away from trouble.

  31. JohninMK says:

    Bill Wade you raised an interesting point that had struck me too. That both the cop on top and the victim underneath almost certainly knew each other as they were both bouncers on the same shift at the same nightclub.
    It does seem to be a pointless crime, maybe there was a personal aspect to this?

  32. Jim S says:

    I watched that video as well. The point which struck me is that, based on the partial evidence available, ThinkLikeACop indicates the officers in question were most likely following departmental policy, up to and including restraint by kneeling on Mr Floyd’s neck. He sounds pretty disgusted by that. Note that Donut Operator (also on youtube) does not agree that this is a valid method, but different jurisdictions vary.
    So in addition to the individual culpability, there’s most likely an institutional/ROE aspect. I would look at the mayor of Minneapolis and the governor of Minnesota to address this if they are serious about fixing the problem.

  33. Eric Newhill says:

    Who would have guessed that there are Islamic students of Alinsky. Use your targets’ high standards against them, eh?
    So Floyd, a savage, who, among his many transgressions, stuck a loaded gun into a woman’s belly while committing robbery, who appears to have been carrying drugs and then resisted arrest, gets killed by the arresting officers.
    The officers are to be held to the highest standards of conduct, as well they should be. They failed miserably in the regard and must be punished for their lapse into savagery. And the savage’s confederates play the victim game and amp up their savagery by burning and looting.
    Keep tempting fate and sooner or later fate will meet you. As I have said before, if you chew rocks you’ll break your teeth, but not because I want your teeth to break. And don’t blame others when they do.

  34. BillWade says:

    JohninMK, It all seems staged to me. There’s a very small, I hope, percentage of people who enjoy “snuff films”. Now we’ve all been treated to one.


    Eric Newhill:
    Well, we all know where you are coming from.
    So, you are stating that a criminal deserves to be murdered?
    That he has no rights?
    Ah yes, let us bring Abu Gharaib practices into the United States.
    “Savage”? Amazing that I am hearing from you the same sentiment that I heard from this Pakistani describing his fellow country men from Sindh: “They are shit people.”


    So the Press – the 4-th pillar of Democracy – are doing their job – mud racking.
    I do not find anything to object.

  37. Serge says:

    I don’t know anything about the rollout of new techniques in that area, but Target is notorious amongst the shoplifting community for having some of the toughest LP in the biz. They will always chase, get police involved, and they actively build cases/share info with other stores. Very dedicated LP division and this has been the case for years. Pretty much a golden rule in that community to never lift from Target

  38. walrus says:

    I was waiting for someone to blame Floyd for his own death, I didn’t have to wait long. Usually, in civilized jurisdictions, police are taught they have a duty of care, even to the most violent and disgusting offenders that are in their charge. To put that another way, even convicted hardened criminals have Constitutional rights. Except it seems in Minneapolis.

  39. turcopolier says:

    I hope you remember the Trayvon Martin case. The county DA overcharged whatever the shooter’s name was and lost the case in a jury trial that included Blacks and women because they could not produce evidence to support a charge of 2nd degree murder. Chauvin had been charged with 3rd degree murder and manslaughter. What do you do in Australia? Do you turn anyone accused over to a lynch mob?

  40. fanto says:

    Thank you Colonel for this post. And I would also emphasize what Chuba said above, who trained these guys and where did they have their training?? this should be made public

  41. backsdrummer says:

    I was a patrol officer in the early 1990s in a large city in the southeast. Back then, we had about a 3% attrition rate in the department. It was not unusual to meet officers who had worked the same beat for 15 years (I knew one on the same beat for about 25 years!) and most stayed until retirement. Their knowledge of their neighborhoods made up for their diminishing physical abilities. Also the older officers were less aggressive and it was a common practice to pair a young, aggressive officer with an older one to keep the inexperienced one out of trouble.
    Over the next 25 years the city cut the pay of new hires about 30% (by refusing to fund their pay-step longevity raises) and also all but eliminated the pension for all new hires. This was done because too many of us were retiring and living a long happy life which they could not afford. The State Constitution protected us old guys from having our pay cut and pension taken away, but the new hires faced a dim future. Also the job description and public expectations mushroomed. As you might expect, recruiting and retention became much harder.
    Just before I retired in 2014, I was working a desk job near our recruiting unit and became friends with some of the recruiters. Attrition was nearly 30%. Very few officers stayed more than 3 years. When I went through the academy in 1990 about 66% of the class quit or was cut for being unfit. By 2014, NO ONE was being cut and whole classes were being ushered through to graduation. I suspect the physical and psychological standards had been lowered to meet the need for bodies to fill the empty positions. The requirements for promotion were also all lowered, especially time in service or there would have been a great shortage of sergeants and lieutenants, so the level of experience and quality of the supervisors also dropped dramatically.
    I believe my city is not unique and this is a nationwide trend.
    I have not policed on the streets for many years, but my guess is that there are too many young, inexperienced officers and first line supervisors, some of whom shouldn’t be in the job in the first place. They need older and more experienced personnel to lead the new hires and keep them out of trouble, but the state of pay and benefits prevents this. None of this excuses bad behavior, but it is a formula for trouble.
    When events like this one happen, the best thing we can do is insist on a thorough investigation and that all due process be followed. It’s not justice you seek if you are asking for special favors or predetermined outcomes.

  42. Frank W McCullough says:

    There is a mysterious figure that could be lurking in the background of both the Ahmaud Arbery and the George Floyd cases: the parole officer. On the day that they died, did both of these ex-cons have parole officers? If so, as far as I can see, both men were going back to jail. And knew it.
    I was once upon a time surprised to learn that the world of the ex-con is a far different world from anything I had ever imagined, not that I had even thought much about it. The freed felon is not free at all. Everything is conditional. He has entered a new world governed by a large powerful institutional bureaucracy , and to which he is commanded to report in to on a regular basis. He is hedged in, and the restrictions can endure for years. There are places he cannot go; there are people he cannot see. It has all been worked out, usually with a lawyer. Documents have been signed. His word is no longer his bond, as he was wont to say. Even in a city like New York, you could be forbidden to go even a few miles from the east side into the west Village to see your cousin. (The point would be, the cousin.)
    If you get caught breaking parole, you can always argue the whole thing, usually with a lawyer, or even sometimes pro se, but that could be in a prison courtroom, which are there for that purpose. You will definitely be doing it from jail. It might only be jail for three weeks, or three months–but think about it! Your life is going to be, as they say, really messed up.
    Why does George Floyd look up to the sky and contort his face in agony when he is simply under arrest in a routine he has done many times before? Why is he so agitated that it takes four officers to control him? What I suspect is that he sees, in his mind’s eye, his parole officer.
    On February 23, 2020, in the Channel 4 video taken from a security camera acrosss the street from the house of Larry English, at approximately 02:08:50 or thereabouts, Ahmaud Arbery walks into the frame and turns quickly to look at the street behind him. He also, as far as I am concerned, looks directly at me–since I am now the camera. He then goes quickly into the garage area of the house, then out, for a second to go back into another part of the garage area, and then obviously goes from the left side of the house to the right side of the house as you face it on screen. You can see, I think, some movement, a light reflection, inside the windows there. That quick bit of surveillance he does convinces me that he has, at this moment, a guilty mind.
    At 02:12:23 roughly, a man with a cell phone walks up to a tree on the far edge of the property and looks towards the English house that Arbery has just entered. He makes a phone call. I think we have that phone call. It is about a trespasser in the English house.
    At about 02:13:37 Ahmaud Arbery does leave leave the front door of the house running at such speed that given the low frequency of the security camera shots he almost seems to be a blur. The man who is making the phone call has been taped saying something to the effect “There he goes now.” Arbery makes no effort to talk to this man. He runs down the other side of the street, probably no more than twenty feet from the man, and I suspect he may have seen or even heard the man. I think he is fleeing. He may be a jogger, but he is also something else, a prowler.
    Arbery is actually running down the street to his death. He will do something that is so amazingly bizarre, trying to take a shotgun away from a man, lunging at him, that the question must be asked. Is he panicked? And that is because of his parole officer?
    There is not doubt that trespassing–which is clearly indicated here– will get him, immediately, with his record, ‘violated.’ (Assuming he still reports to a parole officer on the shop-lifting charges. And the parole officer is going to be involved, one way or the other, in a prosecution, regardless.) Ahmaud’s panic then, is because the security videos, of which he is deeply aware, have been useless up to this point –they only show an unknown black male. If his identify can be attached to as many as three videos, they could become critical to his case. He might be able to talk his way out of a trespassing charge in court, but his fear is now about where he is going to eat supper and spend the night. And what to say to his mother.
    There’s another thing. Trespassing charges could also effect the whole question of his seeking further eduation, or not, at a technial school.
    I think that the parole status of both Ahmaud Arbery and George Floyd is the key to understanding their strange behavior as we see, some of it, at least, captured on video.

  43. Fred says:

    “I do not find anything to object.”
    I’m certain the Iranian government has no objections to biased media coverage negatively affecting the Trump administration.

  44. Deap says:

    Murder is murder when it is intentional and proven in a court of law beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury of one’s peers. Negligent homicide is not murder. Drug abuse and underlying co-morbidities leading to one’s own coincidental demise is not even homicide. Pray at best this does not get listed as a covid-19 death.

  45. Babak makkinejad says:

    Frank W McCullough
    Thank you.

  46. Babak makkinejad says:

    Thank you.
    Another instance of not investing in human capital.
    I also heard that Israelis have been training US police.

  47. Babak makkinejad says:

    I am certain of that.
    But, this is a self-inflicted wound.

  48. JP Billen says:

    I never heard of 3rd degree murder before this case.
    In some jurisdictions criminally negligent manslaughter can be tried as 2nd degree murder if there was a ‘willful or depraved indifference’ to human life. Not sure what the statutes are in Minnesota.
    If I have a heart attack while somebody commits aggravated assault on my person, I have still been murdered. I thought chokeholds were banned by police departments nationwide back 40 years ago.

  49. Deap says:

    Looking more likely this could be the work of the Bernie Sandernistas – primed for revolution and anarchy, after their prize was stolen a second time. Rioting at CNN headquarters, fercrissakes?
    Every two-bit rabid white liberal “celebrity” is now piling on. They know they will lose in November, so they are pulling out the stops just to make one last mess of things.

  50. Eric Newhill says:

    Yes. I call anyone, regardless of skin color, with a felony record/nature of the crimes like Floyd’s, a “savage”.
    Coroner is saying that he wasn’t asphyxiated by the cop’s knee. It was bad health and drugs. When you decide to make your life a one man crime wave and you resist arrest and have bad health and take drugs and then die, yes you bear some responsibility for your fate.
    It is entirely possible to apply a knee to the neck or upper back without the full weight of one’s body focused on the point of contact. You can regulate the amount of pressure. What appears to be a cop killing a man – even I reacted that way at first – might just be a cop restraining a man who was resisting arrest.
    But don’t worry Babak, the riots will continue and America will continue to be damaged. This will be a satisfying summer for you.

  51. Adrestia says:

    If you want to control somebody on the ground with your knee, just put it on his head and immobilize it in a similar squat as in the video. Very easy and very effective.
    That way you don’t hurt the person you control, but he will hurt himself when he tries to move.
    There are some trained people that can escape this without hurting themselves, but the average person in the street will not be able to do this. In that case you can always proceed to something different.

  52. Eric Newhill says:

    Right. Let the investigation conclude. The cop is probably guilty of manslaughter (at least – at a certain point he and his partners should have been to get Floyd into the car), but we don’t know all of the facts and we don’t know how those facts correspond to the PD policy on topics like restraining when there is resisting arrest.

  53. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Eric Newhill
    I suppose all protestors everwhere in the Western Diocletian Land at anytime are Savages by your account.
    You need to take a step back and try to unknot yourself.

  54. Artemesia says:

    There are a number of anomalies.
    Videos show two different “police” cars involved — the first shown making a U turn to pick up Floyd is marked Park Police, unable to discern license tag; car number 832. Rear of this car is unmarked.
    The car where Floyd is videod w/ (supposedly) Chauvin’s knee on his neck while several other men in blue police-like shirts look on is #322, has “Minneapolis” in bold white letters across the back, clearly visible license tag is POLICE.
    A medic was called to check Floyd’s vitals even as the knee remained in place. Strange.
    Video shows Chauvin with hand in pocket while he’s kneeling. Curious posture.
    His other knee is on the ground — that is, his full weight is not on Floyd’s neck.
    Numerous photos appearing showing IDF in knee-on-neck posture restraining Palestinians. Israel is known to train numerous police; Atlanta chief said, Yes, they train in anti-terror tactics and we will continue the relationship.
    It’s not apparent that filming took place surreptitiously; that is, it seems Chauvin was aware of being filmed. Why did he continue for 8, 9 minutes?
    How does a man who cannot breathe call out “I can’t breathe.”

  55. Eric Newhill says:

    Everything points to a large well organized/ well funded network jumping off a coordinated attack against the country.
    In LA last night, two federal LEOs were shot while guarding a federal building. One of them died this morning.
    I am sympathetic to the black protesters, though not the rioters, arsonists and looters.

  56. Deap says:

    RedState has a first perso account claiming ANTFA is just OWS re-branded. Steven Bannon actually did an excellent documentary years ago called “Occupy Unmasked” (how ironic) that delves into the links between those who brought ACORN to life and what came with it.
    The face off at that time was between the growing TeaParty and its thread to the radical leftist cause – and OWS emerged from the melee. It was also the same time, post the 2008 meltdown, that the growing wage disparity between public and private sector workers was becoming obvious.
    Everyone else was losing ground after the 2008 meltdown, except public sector union workers. Same can can be said today – everyone is losing ground due to government mandates, except the public sector employees. And out comes ANTIFA and friends to create distraction.

  57. Babak makkinejad says:

    The same situation obtained during the Great Depression, with state jobs giving their holder financial well-being among a sea of poverty.

  58. Deap says:

    The message I got was first: Don’t resist arrest. Cooperate with the restraining officer. Best for all concerned. We have seen this play before.

  59. turcopolier says:

    Yes, my father was a highly literate and well read sergeant in those days. The government could not afford more than 180,000 officers and men. He was careful not to do anything that would make the army discharge him.

  60. turcopolier says:

    I am skilled in unarmed combat. If you kneel on someone’s neck for that long you are likely to kill him

  61. Mark Logan says:

    RE: How does a man who cannot breathe call out “I can’t breathe.”
    It doesn’t have to be asphyxiation. Could have been pressure on the carotid artery did him in. Google up the old banned sleeper-hold technique.

  62. Eric Newhill says:

    Given Floyd’s criminal record, had he lived in Iran, he would have been executed years ago. An appreciation of irony and self-reflection are virtues that you appear to lack in your lust to attack America.

  63. optimax says:

    The Minneapolis law enforce code states police can use the knee on neck technique to subdue a prisoner. Chauvin kept his kept his knee on Floyd’s neck long after he had been subdued. The cop kneeling on his back also obstructed Floyd’s breathing. The night club owner who employed both Floyd and Chauvin said both were nice men but Chauvin showed poor judgement a few times by needlessly pepper spraying the crowd out front. Whatever made him snap during Floyd’s arrest, whatever Floyd’s past sins, Chauvin is the one that’s a savage. To me it looks like he killed Floyd on purpose. You would think a psychological evaluation would never permitted him to be put in a position of authority.
    The media mentions over and over the rioters are a small minority, most are peacefully demonstrating. Unfortunately the media don’t give the police the same courtesy by saying it’s only a small minority of cops that step over the line. Some people, too many, believe cops hunt Blacks, and that Blacks are victims of relentless victims of White supremacy. The truth is 90% of interracial crimes are committed by Blacks. The media and some politicians ignore the reality and promote the myth.
    In some Black communities there is a war between them and the cops.
    The video cuts away while the crowd grows and continues to harass the police.
    This video shows how fast cops have to react. Looks straight out of a cheap horror movie.

  64. TonyL says:

    Governor Newsom declared states of emergency in LA county, California. A few cities are under curfew from 8PM Saturday till early morning. The Governor deployed about 1,000 National Guards in as a back up for law enforcement.
    George Floyd protest started about noon Saturday peacefully, and then turned violent. Looting in Melrose going on after the curfew.

  65. Babak makkinejad says:

    Eric Newhill
    Matthew 7:5

  66. Fred says:

    ex-PFC Chuck,
    “Floyd was a bouncer at a nightclub and may well have received it as a tip. ”
    That’s a keen observation. Having worked with off duty police officers at the same place over many years he also would have been well versed in how they handle arrests, and shouldn’t have been concerned over $20 of fake money. Pissed off when the store he realized it was fake and he realized he got ripped off, but it would be obvious quickly he didn’t print it up. There’s a lot more to what went down than we are seeing, but the press isn’t interested in that nor at this point are the rioters.
    The riots weren’t inflicted upon the state by itself nor does the state condone killing suspected criminals in custody.

  67. Deap says:

    Photo does not show “kneeling” on his neck; it shows locking his head in place with one knee only, and with the officer actually leaning backwards, hand in pocket for counter-balance, that appears to actually keep lethal pressure away the front of his neck which so far has been supported by the initial autopsy report.
    The moments between resisting arrest and going limp will need further evaluation. Again, the autopsy report(s) will provide far more data than commentary on our subjective photo analysis from afar. Neither of us were there. Nor aware of his rap sheet, when this was unfolding.
    It is not about who is right or who is wrong at this time, but letting due process duly unfold.

  68. Tidewater says:

    Just for the record. Check press reports about the autopsy. The defense is going to have a strong argument that Chauvin was unaware that Floyd was dying from the sudden, violent stress that was overwhelming his cardivascular system due to the combination of a long-standing, well-established morbidity, including heart disease, hypertension and possibly asthma, and also a psychiatric problem that would be diagnosed as susceptibility to panic attacks. A deadly combination. Something like that. The video that we may never see, though the jury will, will show the inside of George Floyd’s cardiovascular system and/or brain. That will decide the case. They’ve already said it was not suffocation. The knee didn’t do it.

  69. Fred says:

    The people protesting aren’t going to read an autopsy report a week from now, they are responding to the video and still images.

  70. Keith Harbaugh says:

    A lot of information about Derek and George’s commen employer, the nightclub ENR:
    Also speculations about its possible connections to the USG.

  71. Artemesia says:

    DC is up and running. Beautiful day, plenty of people (tho nothing near what a non-coved May Day in DC would look like) biking, walking, toting children; probably more without mask than with.
    Damage was contained to perhaps 6 blocks; crews already at work chemically treating graffiti, boarding up store fronts, even some glass was already being replaced. Police lowered a home-made banner from a flagpole on the corner of Pennsylvania & 14th St NW.
    Litter had been thoroughly cleared from what was the rage area, but the homeless tent cities on K Street were just as littered as always.
    About 200 people gathered as near to White House as they could get, waved posters, shouted. Majority Black but plenty of whites.
    A wall of some sort was covered with graffiti, the most dominant word being F$%k.
    The rest of the city, and especially tonier residential neighborhood like Capitol Hill, and commercial as well as residential neighborhoods in Georgetown, MacArthur Blvd, Chevy Chase, Bethesda; Rosslyn & Arlington in NoVa — no sign that those people were involved in the uproar other than by media.
    Nobody asked, but I think the Floyd-Chauvin thing was theater; I think he’s not dead, but we’ll never know that.
    Somebody is working out a stress test experiment on the American people — as soon as Floyd dies down, we will see “the worst hurricanes since Katrina.”

  72. turcopolier says:

    “I think he’s not dead,” Why? He rose from the dead?

  73. turcopolier says:

    Keith Harbrough
    Now why would a “three letter” US Agency want to own a cantina in Minneapolis? They had both been bouncers at
    a tamale joint. Don’t be stupid. You are right on the edge.

  74. Artemesia says:

    Turcopolier: Which is more likely: an overly-emotional 17-year old girl holds a cell phone rock steady for 10 minutes — no wiggles, no background noise, close enough to record “I can’t breathe” yet concealed from sight of 4 bad-acting policemen; or Floyd is having a Hallmark moment — “He is not dead he’s just away.”
    We were TOLD he died, we didn’t actually see him die. Further, now there’s argument about what caused his death.
    Mark Logan said pressure on carotid could cause death. How long would that take — 2 min, 4 min? Would his brain be able to form words after 6 min. pressure on carotid? What changes would take place in Floyd’s posture, appearance, etc. if his carotid blood flow was being restricted, and when would we see it? :

    “Release your choke hold after 10 seconds unless you’re in immediate danger. Unless you’re actively being attacked, release your choke hold after 10 seconds. 15 seconds is the maximum amount of time that you can apply pressure to the neck without risking permanent damage.”

    The same lawyer who represents Ahmad Arbery’s survivors now represents Floyd’s family. Coincidence.
    Floyd & Chauvin worked together for 17 years.
    This was theater and had the intended “audience response.”
    He never died. Or maybe he died and went to Epstein heaven.

  75. optimax says:

    Get real, nine minutes with a knee on the carotid artery is coincidental to Floyd dying of natural and drug induced causes. Chauvin is a murderer but he may get off due to the legal license given to police. I can get behind that reform and stop no-knock entry. Who cares if they flush the drugs, better yet, send Ed Norton into the city’s bowels to catch the package.
    You saw a different video than I.

  76. TonyL says:

    Read again.
    Colonel Lang:
    “I am skilled in unarmed combat. If you kneel on someone’s neck for that long you are likely to kill him”
    Mark Logan:
    ” It doesn’t have to be asphyxiation. Could have been pressure on the carotid artery did him in. Google up the old banned sleeper-hold technique.”
    The knee did it. George Floyd good/bad health does not make any difference in this case. Chauvin killed him.

  77. turcopolier says:

    The length of time it takes to render someone unconscious and/or dead by obstructing the carotid artery depends on the degree of obstruction of that blood vessel.

  78. Barbara Ann says:

    Your point about the crystal clear footage of the act of deliberate murder is a good one.
    The Epstein heaven theory is pretty out there, but then again I just saw who the family had do Floyd’s autopsy; yup, one Dr Michael Baden.

  79. turcopolier says:

    When I wrote this post, I did not know that Floyd was stuffed to the eyes with Speedballs (fentanyl and meth). That is what probably killed him by reducing his body’s ability to cope with them and Chauvin kneeling on him. I also did not know that kneeling on prisoners was an approved technique in the Minneapolis police. This will be an interesting set of trials.

  80. Mark Logan says:

    If those rules are cited by the defense it will be crushed by hordes of officers testifying that that isn’t a licence to camp out on someone’s neck. Only until the perp is cuffed. Included in those hordes will be the three other cops at the scene who tried to get him to get off.

  81. Keith Harbaugh says:

    Some accounts of “police brutality” in the media omit key precipitating facts.
    A glaring example is the much-publicized story of Buffalo police pushing a 75-year old man protesting for George Floyd to the ground, injuring him.
    What is left out of all the MSM stories I have seen about this incident is
    a description of exactly what he was doing before police shoved him.
    Sundance describes those actions here:
    See also this video:
    As Sundance describes it:
    “In this slow motion video, you will see Gugino using a phone as a capture scanner.
    You might have heard the term “skimming”; it’s essentially the same.
    Watch him use his right hand to first scan the mic of officer one (top left of chest).
    Then Gugino moves his hand to the communications belt of the second officer.”

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