Open Thread

Posted on June 26, 2023 by TTG

I know some of you are dying to get some things off your chests. Have at it.

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52 Responses to Open Thread

  1. JamesT says:
    June 26, 2023 at 8:18 pm

    I think a major insight from the Ukraine war so far is that DJI drones combined with 1950s artillery is extremely potent. I think a major insight from the Ukrainian counteroffensive so far is that 1950s mine fields combined with loitering munitions (ie Lancet) is extremely potent.

    I believe that it is this later combination that is the biggest headache for the Ukrainians right now.

    • PeterHug says:
      June 27, 2023 at 2:13 am

      I think Ukraine’s “Uber for Artillery” app, combined with a bunch of Western artillery, has been pretty effective too.
      https://www.newamerica.org/future-frontlines/blogs/how-ukraines-uber-for-artillery-is-leading-the-software-war-against-russia/

      • JamesT says:
        June 27, 2023 at 2:45 pm

        PeterHug,

        I don’t think this is a new insight or a new type of platform in that I am sure that NATO countries like USA have comparable software – probably comparable software that is much more sophisticated. Perhaps even Russia has comparable software that allows their ground units and artillery units to coordinate fire missions.

        Maybe this software is better because it was developed as a greenfield project more recently with “open source off the shelf software components” but I can’t believe US units coordinate their fire missions purely by radio and thus I don’t think this software is anything new.

        • TTG says:
          June 27, 2023 at 5:40 pm

          JamesT,

          We have sophisticated automated systems covering the entire indirect fire cycle, from target designation (forward observing) to the fire directing center and gun laying to the the guided rounds themselves. Look up AFATDS and JADOCS. The real difference is that the Ukrainians open their system to any Ukrainian with a smartphone. It’s also a lot looser and distributed. It fits well into their total national defense strategy. See how it worked in the early battle of Voznosensk when townspeople and militia stopped the Russians drive to Odesa.

          https://turcopolier.com/the-battle-of-voznesensk-ttg/

          • drifter says:
            June 27, 2023 at 8:09 pm

            Who’s “we”? I’m an American and I don’t have any of that stuff.

          • TTG says:
            June 27, 2023 at 8:37 pm

            drifter,

            The “we” is the US Army and USMC. I don’t know if other militaries use AFATDS or JADOCS, but many have something similar.

          • JamesT says:
            June 27, 2023 at 8:50 pm

            TTG,

            Very interesting.

          • PeterHug says:
            June 28, 2023 at 12:22 am

            I think the USA would never allow a system like that into the wild without mandating a lawyer in the decision loop, and probably reasonably so.

            That would slow things down a bit, but I do think we can (and will) learn some interesting stuff from the Ukrainians.

    • JamesT says:
      June 27, 2023 at 8:59 am

      The combination works, of course, because the defending forces can concentrate their scarce loitering munitions on the attacking forces scarce mine clearing vehicles.

  2. drifter says:
    June 26, 2023 at 9:40 pm

    Who owns the website now?

    • mcohen says:
      June 27, 2023 at 6:46 pm

      Yes that’s what I though.oh well

    • mcohen says:
      June 27, 2023 at 6:54 pm

      I wondered the same thing

    • TTG says:
      June 27, 2023 at 7:50 pm

      drifter,

      It’s still part of Pat’s estate. His PayPal account still has a hefty surplus to pay for it automatically. I don’t have access to all aspects of his WordPress account or cpanel (if that’s being used). The first order of business is to obtain a full, local backup of turcopolier. That’s something we’ll work with Pat’s former IT guy to remedy.

      • drifter says:
        June 27, 2023 at 8:22 pm

        The estate will be able to claim rights to all content on the site. Maybe you have good relations with the Col.’s relations. But if not, look for a quick exit. All work you currently perform on the site is value accruing to the estate. You can’t even count on the Paypal account because once the estate realizes there’s money there, the executor will withdraw it.

        Maybe all is good. Maybe your daughter married his daughter. But the best thing is to get your own platform (“url”).

        • TTG says:
          June 27, 2023 at 8:32 pm

          drifter,

          There are men and women of good character and honor involved in this who are taking this on only to fulfill the wishes of Pat and Marguerite. We desire nothing beyond that. If Marguerite tells us that it is time to stop, then we stop. Until that time, we will continue in style. I have no personal desire to blog beyond this.

          • drifter says:
            June 27, 2023 at 9:01 pm

            Why?

          • TTG says:
            June 27, 2023 at 9:14 pm

            drifter,

            If the answer still eludes you, you will never understand.

          • Fred says:
            June 27, 2023 at 10:49 pm

            TTG,

            Does Col. Lang’s will authorize any of the guest author’s permission to continue posting on this forum, or do his instructions only pertain to mainaining the site and its archives for public access?

          • TTG says:
            June 28, 2023 at 10:26 am

            Fred,

            I have no idea what’s in Pat’s will, but continuing this blog was among the wishes he expressed to me in our many conversations. It is much akin to Robert Service’s “The Cremation of Sam McGee.” It was words between two men, two friends, two brothers in arms. It’s something I know you understand, Fred.

            I will see to it that this blog will continue and to eventually be archived much like “Sic Semper Tyrannis” and “The Atheneum” for public access. What a treasure those old, archived sites are. Don’t worry, I’m in the company of a few good and capable people in this endeavor.

          • Sam says:
            June 27, 2023 at 10:49 pm

            drifter,

            Why is it your business?

          • billy roche says:
            June 28, 2023 at 12:37 am

            You made that clear immediately after Pat’s death. Some people just don’t get simple truths. Carry on with style.

          • Fred says:
            June 28, 2023 at 3:40 pm

            TTG,

            That is all fine and good, except if it isn’t in writing it will be an issue.

          • different clue says:
            July 2, 2023 at 3:22 pm

            I hope the eventual archiving will also be able to archive and preserve all the comments of all the threads.

            The comment threads are/were also rich coral gardens of living knowledge.

          • TTG says:
            July 2, 2023 at 3:48 pm

            different clue,

            It will be archived just like SST and The Atheneum are archived. However and wherever those sites were archived has proved stable over the years.

            https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/

            https://turcopolier.typepad.com/the_athenaeum/

      • PeterHug says:
        June 28, 2023 at 12:25 am

        Does a full backup of the old site exist?

      • English Outsider says:
        June 28, 2023 at 6:54 am

        Nevertheless, any contributions needed for the running of the site? Just say. A while back I was going to buy some Lagavulin to celebrate Brexit. When that went awry I dropped the idea. Later the Colonel mentioned it as a brand he liked so I thought I’d send it to him instead.

        Never did. So there’s a debt of honour, or at least a debt of intention, waiting to be settled.

        And time to say grateful thanks to you, TTG, for taking over. The site must soak up time to run. I suspect the beavers and the sailing aren’t getting as much attention as they used to.

        .

  3. Shako says:
    June 26, 2023 at 11:18 pm

    The President, The White House bureaucracy surrounding the President, the multitude of straphangers in and around the President could not bring themselves to celebrate the oldest, most successful, unifying, continuous institution in the USA – The Army of the United States on the 248th birthday – 14 June. 2023. Rather, they all organized a celebration of “Gay Pride” , with a big White House south lawn pervert blowout, casting our “Stars and Stripes” in a disrespectful, secondary role, flanking the pervert flag hung front and center, from the south face of the White House. The pervert fest was calculated and intended to be as disrespectful as possible to traditional American values, to be divisive as possible, and “in the face” of traditional America!

  4. VietnamVet says:
    June 27, 2023 at 12:46 am

    I was really relieved to see turcopolier.com is back on line. One possible conspiracy vanished.

    I went, long ago, to the 20th anniversary gathering of my Brigade’s entrance into Vietnam. I only remember General William Westmoreland saying, in his list of accomplishments, that every square foot of South Vietnam was covered by artillery fire from the landing zones in country. Before the Tet Offensive, the VC infiltrated a whole division north of Saigon and no one noticed. Bob McNamara’s sensor warfare over half a century later has finally come to fruition. Neither side can mass the manpower and armament to break through the trench lines like in WWII by George Patton or Georgy Zhukov. Erich von Manstein failed at Kursk in 1943 and Germany lost the war.

    The proxy WWIII between NATO and the Russian Federation is a stalemate. The bottom line is both sides need to defeat the other to survive as is. The current White House appears to refuse to acknowledge that if they ever figure out how to break through the defenses into to the rear echelon, the victor will be greeted with tactical nuclear weapons ignited by either NATO or Russia/Belarus. A nuclear war will commence.

    An armistice and DMZ like Korea in 1953 is the only alternative the forever war in Europe.

    • billy roche says:
      June 27, 2023 at 2:44 pm

      I rarely agree w/you but I do this time …100% Turn over the keys of the Donbass to Russia, run a vertical line down the middle of Crimea and split it. If you are for Ukraine, arm her to the teeth, hair, and big toe. Russia has Never meant her (nor the rest of her western neighbors) any good. The “cats out of the bag” so let Ukraine join NATO. Sweden, Finland, and, I bet soon, Austria were all provoked by Putin baring Russia’s imperial teeth. Now she can put aside her dreams of empire and turn to her “friends” the Persians, Turks, and Chinese who remember the friendship and support Russia has always given.

  5. Keith Harbaugh, says:
    June 27, 2023 at 1:19 am

    Do there exist SAP or CAP programs related to UAP that are not reported to Congress?
    If so, two questions arise:
    1. Who made that decision?
    2. Who is running them, and to whom DO these programs report?

    That this issue is being taken seriously is indicated by this report on the IAA for 2024:

    https://douglasjohnson.ghost.io/senate-intelligence-bill-gives-holders-of-non-earth-origin-six-months/

    The requirements for disclosure in that bill were rather transparently motivated by claims coming from David Charles Grusch (which were transmitted by the ICIG), and others whose names are still unknown.

    For some background, see the June 5, 2023 article on Grusch by Leslie Keane and Ralph Blumenthal

    https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/

    There is also a Substance article by Michael Schallenberger:

    https://public.substack.com/p/us-has-12-or-more-alien-space-craft

    A YouTube playlist of related videos is here:

    https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZlQy6FlDBO2BvBhKgHTT7B27Vs8BQlRt

  6. Whitewall says:
    June 27, 2023 at 9:49 am

    I saw this headline earlier from the Belarus strongman:
    Lukashenko warns of Belarusian ‘combat readiness’: ‘If Russia collapses, all of us will die’

    I wonder who he means by ‘all of us’? His has instructed his military he said. That must have been inspirational.

  7. Fred says:
    June 27, 2023 at 3:57 pm

    I see the Fink has decided ESG might not be the best thing to push, especially since Governor “De-Sanctimonious” pulled $2 billion in assets out of his managerial control.
    https://www.frontpagemag.com/blackrock-ceo-never-mind-about-esg/

  8. drifter says:
    June 27, 2023 at 8:47 pm

    With regard to Prigozhin, drifter’s narrative of the Wagner eruption is that (a) Wagners were attacked and some killed on Friday, (b) Pregozhin mobilized Wagners to protest this outrage, (c) Putin et al. realized at some point that their own guys were implicated in the attack, and (d) Putin et al. massively de-escalated.

    Why (d)? (i) Direct clashes with Wagners would result in damage and loss of life. (ii) Once that facts and circumstances were understood, there was no purpose to the conflict. (iii) Wagner PMC continues to be a valuable asset for the regime in Africa, maybe elsewhere. (iv) Prigozhin’s third cousin, twice removed, was married to Shiogu’s fourth cousin once removed, but after a bitter divorce, married an American with African slave ancestry who has an employment relationship with a former E5.

    I tend to discount (iv) myself.

    • mcohen says:
      June 28, 2023 at 8:12 pm

      Where is Prigohzin.Where are the southern command generals who were in Rostov.
      And finally
      Where is wally

      • TTG says:
        June 28, 2023 at 9:25 pm

        Prigozhin is likely in Belarus. Surovikin may be in a prison cell. If this is so, how many others will join him is an open question.

        • mcohen says:
          June 29, 2023 at 4:52 am

          I am not so sure.
          Russia must-leave Ukraine.
          Except Crimea.That must be leased to Russia on a 99 year lease like Hong Kong and the British All Russian supporters left in Ukraine after the war must be protected by the constitution.Otherwise they must move to Russian Repatriated.imho.

        • mcohen says:
          June 30, 2023 at 12:46 am

          Prigozhin hopefully will replace putin and Dmytro Kuleba replace zelensky in the near future.From that a peace peace is possible.

          • TTG says:
            June 30, 2023 at 1:56 am

            mcohen,

            Prigozhin is a wanted war criminal. I seriously doubt he would ever replace Putin or seek peace if he did. Putin remaining firmly in charge in the Kremlin is, in my opinion, more likely to lead to a peace arrangement than anyone else. I don’t whether Kuleba is more likely to seek peace than Zelenskiy.

  9. rick says:
    June 28, 2023 at 10:11 am

    I am returning to my tradition of posting music on open threads in an effort to lighten the often heavy atmosphere.

    Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you “It’s your Voodoo Workin’ “, by Charles Sheffield, in honor of the return and maintenance of SST. Enjoy.

    https://youtu.be/zZRBCq8vLjg

  10. jim ticehurst.. says:
    June 28, 2023 at 11:50 pm

    Whats Going On With All Racism against Italians (Closing 100 Pizzeria in
    New York)..And Offensive Attitudes towards Catholics… Why.????
    ..Strong Family Values.
    Pro Life and Christian Faith… Yes…”Our Country will Never Be the Same”

    Sinking Ships…States….and Messy Implosions….America…Being Aborted..
    JT

    • TTG says:
      June 29, 2023 at 12:08 am

      jim ticehurst,

      The closing pizzerias might have something to do with a lame brained idea of traditional pizza ovens being bad for the environment. Absolute idiocy. Offensive attitudes towards Catholics might be affected by the record of clergy engaging in the predatory abuse of children. Those offensive attitudes ought to extend to Evangelical youth pastors and other self-righteous authority figures. An awful lot of them seem to have a penchant for preying on children. Funny no drag queens are ever caught in those activities.

  11. leith says:
    June 29, 2023 at 12:36 am

    Ukrainian helo pilots apparently have a new concept for a FARP (Forward Arming and Refuelling Point) – https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1673927856429170690

    Looks primitive but if it works don’t knock it.

    Hat tip to OSINTtechnical.

  12. ked says:
    June 29, 2023 at 2:39 pm

    as an avid SF reader since the 5th grade (if ERB’s Mars series counts as a start), I would be thrilled to learn intelligent alien life had / was / will soon visit our solar system. given its revolutionary nature, I require more than heresay & a PR operation (not that there’s anything wrong w/ PR). the latest dude (Grusch) to break cover & testify brings forth to the public no independently verifiable hard evidence. my take-away is the he’s:
    – playing his part in a US info-op,
    – suffers under work stress that has lowered his critical evaluation skills,
    – bucking for a show on History Channel
    – gone completely ’round the bend wacko.

    be prepared for another dose in 1-2 yrs.

    • Keith Harbaugh, says:
      June 29, 2023 at 3:27 pm

      There are other people effectively corroborating Grusch’s claims.
      See what Senator Rubio said on Monday, 6-26:
      https://youtube.com/watch?v=m4hmaflNoKU
      That video features Rubio speaking directly into the camera: no interpretation or paraphrasing.

      A key part of what Rubio said has been reported as follows:

      In an exclusive interview [linked to above],
      Rubio told NewsNation Washington correspondent Joe Khalil that
      multiple individuals with “very high clearances and high positions within our government”
      “have come forward to share”
      “first-hand” UFO-related claims
      “beyond the realm of what [the Senate Intelligence Committee] has ever dealt with.      ”

      https://thehill.com/opinion/technology/4067865-congress-doubles-down-on-explosive-claims-of-illegal-ufo-retrieval-programs/

      Now that is Florida Senator Rubio reporting what he has been told.
      Not exactly science fiction.
      Sounds important to me.

      It is not clear why you chose to demean Grusch (e.g., “wacko”).
      I see no reason to doubt that he is trying to do the right thing, in a difficult situation.

      As to the lack of hard evidence, there may be national security issues involved. I certainly can’t see why that is not a possiblity.

      • ked says:
        June 30, 2023 at 11:28 pm

        wacko is just one of the possible categories. I think it’s mucho more likely he’s stressed out or a part of some op or biz scheme.
        Rubio? more heresay / no hard evidence, no independent witnesses. admittedly, I’ve never thought much of his shtick on anything.
        present 5 renowned experts, deliver material artifacts, independent scientific evaluation… that’s the least required to take it all seriously.

  13. Sam says:
    July 1, 2023 at 4:23 pm

    Will China economically be the next Japan? Will it face a repeat of Japan’s experience in the early 1990s? Our answer is a resounding yes. China’s household debt surged to 62 percent of GDP last year from 28 percent a decade before. That compares with Japan’s experience of climbing to over 60 percent in 1989 from about 26 percent in 1971

    http://international-economy.com/TIE_W23_Malmgren.pdf

    Another parallel is the size of the Chinese banking system relative to its economic output. IMO, this along with demographic decline played a huge role in Japan’s decades long stagnation. CCP has other challenges too driven by its one child policy and direction of disproportionate banking system assets to its SOE sector and fixed assets, irrespective of return. It is only a matter of time before Xi will have to recapitalize the CCP banking system and apportion the embedded losses to the bottom half of the population. The transition to consumer-led demand generation will continue to be hampered due to the conflict with entrenched CCP segments who favor those sectors that need their balance sheets cleaned up and have created so much wealth for insiders.

  14. different clue says:
    July 2, 2023 at 1:50 am

    Here is something that I just saw posted on the ” damnthatsinteresting” subreddit. It is titled : ” Propaganda booklet found in a trench in Bakhmut” It shows the several pages in sequence of this purported-to-be propaganda booklet purported to be found in the Bakhmut trench. Here is the link.
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/14nrxj7/propaganda_booklet_found_in_a_trench_in_bakhmut/

    The first comment in the thread says . . . ” For anyone wondering the text is the same above all pictures and just says ” that’s the difference”.

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