The media are doing their best to twist Pope Franci' words to their own ends. It has long been the teaching of the Catholic Church that being gay is not sinful. The teaching is that doing gay is sinful. Nothing Francis said changes that. He said that he would not judge people for being gay. That is merely a matter of Christian charity and there is nothing new in that. He said that "the door is closed' in the matter of women priests. What he meant is that this is a matter of settled church doctrine. It was pronounced upon as a matter of great importance by John Paul II. A pope is not an absolute monarch in matters of faith and morals. He cannot simply reverse the teaching of one of his predecessors. John Paul II "locked" this in. Francis says ge wants women to have a greater role in the Church. He will need to be creative. pl
And Popes are infallible to church members since 1869?
The press also seems to be shocked by Pope Francis’ very real outreach to the poor and repeated denunciation of greed. Apparently anything that can distract from that very real message will be push front and center by the press.
WRC
Yes when they speak “ex cathjedra” on faith and morals. This is a great problem in trying to change established doctrine. pl
Col Lang
My faith tradition is Protestant , so I am learning here about the Catholic Traditions. I think Pope Francis also called for Priest Oscar Romero from El Salvador to be granted some type of promotion ? Wasn’t Priest Romero one of the proponents of Marxist Revolutionary Liberation Catholicism back in the 1980 ‘s ?
AE
“Romero was shot on 24 March 1980 while celebrating Mass at a small chapel located in a hospital called “La Divina Providencia”, one day after a sermon in which he had called on Salvadoran soldiers, as Christians, to obey God’s higher order and to stop carrying out the government’s repression and violations of basic human rights. According to an audio-recording of the Mass, he was shot while elevating the chalice at the end of the Eucharistic rite.” wiki. Bishop Romero is considered to be a modern martyr of the Christian faith. I agree with that. Actually, your language, i.e., “priest Romero” and “some sort of promotion” is offensive in and of itself. You sound anti-Catholic. pl
A number of of Cardinals and priests are in agreement with you that what Pope Francis said is nothing new, but I disagree slightly. The remark was not about Church teaching, it was in response to a question about how Church leadership should deal with gay priests. Benedict outright barred gay men from entering the priesthood. Francis is suggesting an entirely different tack for a bishop to take who has a priest he knows is gay. (Of course I’m talking here exclusively about celibate gay priests). To that extent it’s new, but of course we have to see how that plays out in practice.
Pope Francis may not be saying anything new but he says it with such love and sincerity. I am not a Catholic but if I ever, I would want my priest to be like Pope Francis.
Thanks PL!
Col: The Church always walks to the precipice and then God sends us a “Francis.” It is wonderful to have such a humble and good man in St. Peter’s chair.
No sir – I am not anti catholic ,but uneducated about many things . Perhaps I would be well served to do the wiki google before asking unschooled question regarding any Faith Traditions . If I offended you are any other Catholic by these questions about Bishop Romero I apologize.
Col Lang
I just now went to wiki and learned that Arch Bishop Romero is on the path to canonization . And the wiki says that Bishop Romero was one of ten 20th Century Martyrs chosen by the Church of England-
“Blessed are the Peace Makers ‘.
The Church also teaches that doing heterosexual sex outside the sacrament of marriage is sinful. That is why it’s teachings on gays is consistent. Sex is only for married couples as an expression of sacred love and for “being fruitful and multiplying,” although it acknowledges that not all marriages end up with children.
Priests are to be celibate so their sexual orientation is immaterial. My old parish priest told us a story about his time in the seminary. He and several of his fellow students asked an older priest how to stop thinking about women. The old priest answered, “When you gentlemen figure that out, let me know. I haven’t figured it out yet.”
TTG
There is also the teaching that gay sex is a deviation from the Natural Law. I know that various animals display such behavior. It is the Church’s teacihng, not mine. My wife and I have no children but I hope we have not deviated too far from the Natural Law. Celibacy is about not marrying. Chastity is about purity. In the days when I believed them many clergymen and religious insisted that they were celibate. Meaningless. pl
PL,
My favorite aunt and uncle had no children, but I would be shocked and sorely disappointed if the Church would hold that against them. I understand the Church teaches that gay sex is a deviation from the Natural Law. It can’t possibly result in procreation. Are getting a vasectomy or other forms of contraception deviations from the Natural Law? As far as I understand they are definitely sins, but I don’t know if the Church considers them deviations as well. I yield to your far greater understanding of Church teachings on these matters.
Francis also used the word “gay” without invisible quotation marks. For a Pope or any other highly visible Church prelate of orthodox attitude, that is new.
I’d say the policy on female priests is hardly locked in. Not that it will happen any time soon (or ever). Francis just isn’t going to pick that fight. Given the love that liberals are lavishing on him currently, he certainly doesn’t have to.
I was a bit taken aback to hear him say that the investigation of Monsignor Ricca ended in “nothing to see here.” The story is that the good monsignor’s conduct, which allegedly included getting discovered in a lift with a rent boy, scandalized Uruguay. If the reports are true and Francis still gave Ricca a pass, then he is broadminded indeed.
Stephanie
“I’d say the policy on female priests is hardly locked in.” IMO the RCC is making a big mistake in not ordaining women and married people. nevertheless, that is the policy. i don’t remember if JP II was “speaking” ex cathedra when he pronounced on ordination of women, but it would surely be a major, wrenching crisis in the RCC for Frncis to overturn JP II’s position on this. There will be women priests someday. pl
Pat Lang
A little Wiki search reveals that you are right. Women priests are not possible. It’s canon law. However, some canon laws are subject to change over time, others aren’t. Not sure which category female priests fits into, so you may be right about the future too.
Wiki says Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, the letter that Pope John Paul II issued that declared the woman priest question closed, was not ex cathedra, but that it did declare: (1) the Church cannot ordain women as priests due to divine law; and that (2) this doctrine has been set forth infallibly by the ordinary and universal magisterium. (ie: an instance of the Pope “publicising” what he and the other bishops, as the ordinary and universal magisterium,’ have already consistently taught through the ages.)
It seems to me that there are two (relatively) simple steps – accepting the old majority report on contraception and ordaining married priests – that would be good for the Church in every respect and that could be taken (relatively) quickly.