I confess to being irredeemably addicted to facts. Linda (an old colleague) can testify to that.
Every time some nutter kills people with firearms I always ask the same questions; what guns were used and were they legally obtained and possessed.
In the US, one may not own a fully automatic weapon (shoots many times when you pull the trigger) unless one possesses a machine gun license issued by the Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms federal police (ATF). To get such a license requires heavy vetting by the ATF.
Therefore these questions of mine must be answered before one can know if it was flabbiness in the law or its execution that allowed the nutter to have whatever weapons he used. This is particularly true if a fully automatic weapon was used.
Thus far I have heard nothing in the left wing anti-gun media that answers my questions.
Nevertheless, CNN, MSNBC, etc. were "all over" the WH press secretary today trying to drive Trumo toward gun control legislation.
And then there is Hillary, who tweeted today some nonsense about "silencers." IMO as a practitioner of war it would have made no difference whatever to the occurrence of this horrible crime if the shooter nut had had silencers on all his weapons, whatever they were. pl
Could those here who have more first-hand knowledge of such things than I comment on the sound of the firing? It certainly sounds like full-automatic fire to me and if I had to guess (I don’t, but of course I will), it might be something in the M-16 family/upgraded AR-15.
Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRt6_LmnSSc starting at 0:48
Here is the Wikipedia entry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Nevada
As to the “pure evil” argument…the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.
THIS IS WHAT DOING NOTHING LOOKS LIKE:
In case you were wondering: Nevada does not require a permit to purchase firearms. Nevada does not require firearm registration. Nevada does not require an owner license for firearms. Nevada does not require concealed carry permits for long guns. Nevada does not ban the sale of military-style assault weapons. Nevada does not have magazine capacity restrictions. Nevada pre-empts local restrictions on gun sales.
A buddy of mine said “I’d never have imagined we’d be hearing automatic rifle fire in Vegas like that.” Concur.
The Left seems tone deaf as ever on how they’re coming across as a bunch of ghouls fighting over the still warm bodies for the choices joint.
Colonel — I just read this article which explains a lot about fully automatic weapon ownership/sales in the US. All news to me…did anyone else know this? (Yes, it is from a liberal site but the facts should be easily checked.)
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/10/2/1703426/-Las-Vegas-gunman-had-at-least-one-fully-automatic-weapon-may-never-have-faced-a-background-check
Our attention is drawn to mass killings like just happened in Las Vegas, and to inner-city gun killings. This may be a distraction This is what we are told applies in the US of A:
1. The incidence of suicide among people who have access to firearms is much higher than that among people who don’t have such access.
2. Access to a firearm is a better predictor of suicide than depression or drug abuse.
3. Nowadays, two-thirds of the gun-related deaths are suicides.
4. The gun-related suicides are >90% white, and predominantly male.
So it would seem that, apart from the occasional collateral damage, the Second-Amendment-justified lax gun safety laws are just a white-male-suicide pact. Dancing about the legality of a particular gun or about suppressors seems to be besides the point.
Every time a nutter does this I ask the same question, but I also ask, ‘what pharmaceutical antidepressant meds was he prescribed.’ Also, was there an intermittent pattern of taking them (starting and stopping the meds?). Frequently this is a factor, rarely discussed. Some of these meds are even required to put on the label warnings, ‘may cause violent behavior’, both taking the drug or sudden cessation of the med.
Sir,
These are said to have been rifles in 5.56mm and 7.62mm. Recordings from the shooting are definitely full automatic fire, though the rate of fire seems a wee bit slower/choppier than an actual M16 or AK – doesn’t sound like the slight difference was due to trigger finger style either. More than one source says legally purchased semi-auto versions that had been converted – illegally – by various means to mimic full auto fire; “bump” fire mechanisms being one such methodology (which would explain the odd rate of fire/choppiness, I think).
You didn’t ask but my guess is either ISIS is correct and this was one of their brothers recently converted (there is an Islamic Center in Mesquite, Nevada + the Filipino GF maybe?) or another leftist. The country music fest seems like it was more than a target of opportunity. Typically such an event would be packed full of deplorable Trump supporters. That would be the same profile as the man who shot up the GOP baseball game.
The WSJ just put out a piece that answers some of the questions.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/las-vegas-suspect-likely-used-automatic-rifle-in-massacre-1506966716?mg=prod/accounts-wsj
Investigators found 18 to 20 firearms in alleged gunman’s hotel room
/quote/
Investigators found 18 to 20 firearms, some fully automatic, … The weapons included AR-15-style and AK-47-style rifles as well as a large cache of ammunition, the official said.
[The terrorist* possibly used] a trigger crank or a Bump Fire, which uses a combination of forward movement and recoil to engage the trigger rapidly. Such accessories are far cheaper and easier to obtain than an automatic weapon.
…
Many local law-enforcement officials refuse to approve the transfer of machine guns … As a workaround, gun owners have obtained them through the use of trusts, legal entities that don’t require permission from sheriffs or police chiefs.
The number of gun trusts jumped from 840 in 2000 to 40,700 in 2012, as they became more widely known and promoted, prompting ATF to update its regulations.
/endquote/
*Under Nevada law definition this incident was undoubtedly terrorism and the man a terrorist.
–
Nevada is rather lax with any gun control.
The man had no past crime record and was a reasonably well off retiree (acc. to WaPo). He likely would have past ATF scrutiny. He also had enough money to buy some old but expensive registered full automatics.
You mean “two window” Lee Harvey
Paddock??
b
“He also had enough money to buy some old but expensive registered full automatics” If he got the rifles through any of these paths he still would have needed a machine gun license to possess them personally. It may be that we need to ban possession of any automatic weapons by any civilian or civilian group without exception. I listened to the audio several times today and whatever he was firing it had a very high cyclic rate of fire. A “bump” trigger is a real possibility. A weapon fired with one sounds like that. pl
Colonel, the difference between semi-automatic and automatic fire is not as distinct as it seems to be. Or as it should be. Here’s a link to a demo of a bump fire stock which looks like automatic fire to me, especially when the young lady empties a drum into car body in just seconds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7DTjSla-O8
And they’re legal and affordable. As you said, we don’t know what all this fruit cake had with him. But something like these could account for what some witnesses described as rapid fire.
Laura
All of those things are equally true in Virginia. pl
MacGupta
IMO people should be free to kill themselves if they wish. pl
Shooting from 400 yards away, with the victims listening to amplified music, would suppressors really have made no difference?
Here are two stories from the Sun newspaper in Britain that contain videos that are allegedly of gunfire at the time of the event–
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4591682/las-vegas-shooting-mandalay-bay-video-concert-attack-death-toll-latest/
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/4527652/las-vegas-shooting-gunman-stephen-paddock-accountant-gambling-pictures/
After the video plays, to replay it, you might have to refresh the web page as the design may then shift to a different video on a different subject.
I do not have an ear to discern much about automatic weapons shooting, as I have not fired them, but if the videos are authentic, the sounds are a brief example of audio at the scene. Two of several questions about the audio are whether the sounds overlap and whether they change in tone.
I think the point is that most people don’t really want to kill themselves but the presence of a firearm makes succumbing to a momentary impulse way too easy. In other cases the logistics of offing oneself cause enough delay for the impulse to pass. These are not well-considered end-of-life decisions that one might make on e.g., learning one has terminal cancer. That is what the research on suicides seems to show.
A society that doesn’t attempt to scotch these seems particularly heartless.
> I listened to the audio several times today and whatever he was firing it had a very high cyclic rate of fire. A “bump” trigger is a real possibility. A weapon fired with one sounds like that. pl
There are several freeware signal analysis programs that should be able to provide insights into what was going on in the audio.
This comment raises two interesting questions.
First, how many people should be given free access to take us with them when they decide to commit suicide. I think one death is enough. This fellow, who committed suicide, took a lot of people with him and maimed many more. Should he have that opportunity. At least the Malaysian pilot had to go to flight school and rise up through the ladder to trans-oceanic flights before he could kill over 200 people during his suicide.
Second, did Paddock do this? Given the description of Paddock, one might hypothesize that someone else did it, killed Paddock, and fled in the confusion. I opt for this latter scenario. If Paddock had shown up in an operating room, held everyone at gunpoint, and performed a craniotomy removing a brain tumor, and then it turned out he had absolutely no medical training or even wanted to be a doctor, we would be entitled to guess it was someone else behind the mask.
I’ll check again, but at my local AARP chapter we don’t have a Fully Automatic Conversion Club meeting every week. There is something truly fishy here.
Btw, you catch this story today?
CBS fires executive for ‘deeply unacceptable’ post after Vegas shooting
CBS Corp. fired a vice president in business affairs Monday for comments she made on social media regarding the mass shooting at a country music festival in Las Vegas.
Hayley Geftman-Gold, wrote on her Facebook page that she was not sympathetic to victims of the shooting because, she claimed, most country music fans are Republican.
Geftman-Gold also wrote: “If they wouldn’t do anything when children were murdered I have no hope that Repugs will ever do the right thing. I’m actually not even sympathetic bc country music fans often are Republican gun toters.”
The comments were deleted but not before they were picked up on a number of right-wing blogs and websites. A petition was posted online that called for her firing.
A CBS spokesperson confirmed that Geftman-Gold was dismissed because of her comments.
“This individual, who was with us for approximately one year, violated the standards of our company and is no longer an employee of CBS. Her views as expressed on social media are deeply unacceptable to all of us at CBS. Our hearts go out to the victims in Las Vegas and their families,” the company said in a statement.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-cbs-fires-executive-for-deeply-1506969657-htmlstory.html
Hayley Geftman-Gold bio:
https://everipedia.org/wiki/hayley-geftman-gold/
My non-expert assumption is that crazy, resentful, bullied, lonely, religiously delusional people have existed throughout history, but at least one huge factor seems to have changed: the hightened negative emotional climate in our society that the Media creates via its emphasis on crisis, violence, conflict, disaster, etc. Lots of normal people I know talk openly about “when the shit hits the fan”, “when it all comes crumbling down”, etc. My good friend, a surgeon, is purchasing a large boat armed with ARs to escape the island when North Korea attacks. Psychological hysteria. I wish I had the discipline to shut it all off. Once again, Stephen Pinker empirically proves the dramatic decrease in violence that is occurring over time despite the Media depiction which makes it appear to be to the contrary.
Personally, I think something should be done about our Media…but I have no idea what. It seems that the news is fake when its virtually all negative and sensationally negative and ignores all the good things going on in the world.
Macqupta123
Yes, it is well known that handgun is the method of choice for white male suicide. What’s not known is how suicide rates would differ among this group if handguns were not available.
Colonel:
There are 3 taxes involved with NFA firearms: The special (occupational) tax levied on licensed manufacturers, dealers, and importers, the “making” tax levied on any entity/person “making” a “firearm” (i.e., includes both for sale by a licensed manufacturer or for personal use by an entity), and the “transfer” tax levied on entity/personal receiving (transferring) a “firearm” (all references to “firearms” means as defined in the internal revenue code National Firearms Act). The 2016 rulemaking adds a new requirement that “responsible persons” for an entity (such as trust) must submit 2″x2″ photo and fingerprint cards (as individuals have had to) as part of the Form 1 or Form 4 application procedures. Additionally, all applicants (responsible persons and individuals) must notify the CLEO (prior to this individuals had to receive CLEO signature prior to submitting the forms to BATFE).
Colonel Lang,
So why can’t congress manage to enact just such a ban?
Haven’t enough people died?
I also think people should be free to kill themselves if they desire.
Better yet, I think we should have legal euthanasia for those who are suffering greatly.
If they lived only for themselves; often friends, parents, siblings, relatives are left to ask “why, why why?”
It is a wreckage with flying pieces.
I have known people who would be alive today if their freedom had been taken away from them.
Sir,
You write, “It may be that we need to ban possession of any automatic weapons by any civilian or civilian group without exception.”
How, in theory and assuming there were the political will, could this come about? A new Federal law? New State laws? Some other way?
Do you think it will ever be politically feasible? In the near term – say 4 or 8 years? In the next 20 years?
Seems like a reasonable suggestion to me but I am quite open to all such suggestions and quite pessimistic about the possibility of implementing even the wisest and mildest new restriction on weapons.
Jonathan House
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-paddock-had-19-rifles-in-room-1506985512-htmlstory.html
Jonathan House
i am not a politician. I don’t need to tell you how to do it. In any event I said we may need to do that. pl
I’ve been wondering all day what bump fire looked and sounded like. Thanks for the youtube link.
Judging by the info released in various news reports, the shooter’s primary weapon was an AR-15 style rifle modified with a bump stock and mounted on a tripod. He probably used several 100 round double drum magazines. I know this magazine is available for .223. I don’t know if they’re made for .308. They must feed fairly reliably since the soundtrack sounded like a pretty steady rate of fire. All this stuff is legally available and it doesn’t take a multi-millionaire to afford it.
Pending a full investigation, I don’t see this as an expression of evil. It’s more likely an expression of the frailty of the human mind… a terrible, senseless tragedy.
I think it was after some other mass shooting when I suggested getting rid of semiautomatic weapons. Just have bolt action, lever action, pump action or single shot long guns. Legal pistols would be single action revolvers and the like. Basically any firearm which requires some positive action to reload the chamber before it is ready to fire. Of course I fully realize this is impractical and unobtainable. Actually, I’d prefer we all went back to edged weapons.
TTG
I will hate to give up my Keltec semi-auto .22 rifle but IMO if we want to stop this we will have to give up weapons that can be illegally converted to either full auto or bump. pl
pl,
I wouldn’t be too thrilled about giving up some of my babies, either. I would hope some kind of arrangement could be made for historical weapons.
I think this is going to get weirder before we figure out wtf happened.
tyler
the conspiracists are into the idea that this dweeb was hald prisoner in th eroom whil someone else did the dirty work and then killed him. that seems unlikely. pl
TTG –
I like the edged weapons suggestion. I’ll give up my 9mm in a heartbeat as it as old and as loose as me. A baseball bat might be better for home protection. But I would hate to give up my black powder elk rifle. I’m too old to learn how to use a bow. And too creaky in the knees to crawl within bow range.
They saw the Hollywood flic where that was portrayed.
It’s legal to buy a kit to convert a semi- to a full-automatic rifle. It is illegal to actually convert the gun. That makes sense–nonsense. Also absurd that bumper guns are legal.
Many injuries were from shrapnel and the stampede and jumping over fences and such.
I find it interesting the mass-murderer’s father was a diagnosed psychopath, since I believe psychopathology can be inherited.
wow…..just…….wow. Imagine what would have happened had a major media executive made such a hateful post about the gay victims of the Pulse nightclub shooting.
This is truly tragic event, and innocent people were needlessly harmed for why?
Several years now, at my hunting place in wilderness, I hear what seems full auto gunfire after sundown…weird and scary. Maybe Ms. Lisa Jean letting off steam, though that background looks like gun-nut AZ. I shoot mainly black powder and that is more than sufficient.
Re: historic collectibles, I would hate to part with my Ljungman AG 42B of 1942 vintage, but would if law required. I have a Curio and Relic collector license from ATF, though the bookkeeping requirements intimidate me no end.
TTG,
How many regular Joe accountants have “13” tatted on their throat? None that I know. The narrative is not developed and what is being proffered isn’t cutting it.
IMO, Someone wanted to be a bad ass anti-social criminal just like their top ten most wanted daddy. MS-13 wouldn’t have him. So he joined anti-Trump/anti-USA groups and, when that wasn’t quite bad ass enough, he did some on-line allegiance to jihadists. Then he made a plan to kill Trump supporters/traditional Americans and be the most bad ass of bad asses. It will all come out soon enough. It will turn out that this guy was aided and abetted by various Trump haters and America haters that we tolerate because we’re trying to be polite and reasonable and lack the moral courage to call out on what they are really all about. These will be an alliance of Antifa, Jihadists, BLM and la Raza. There were supposed to be more shooters (hence all the weapons in the room), but they chickened out – or simply played him and let white boy take the hit alone.
As far as guns go, if he couldn’t get his hands on them, he would have rented a Mac truck. I want my semi-autos so I can deal with this guy’s fellow travelers when they come to my home town; which they will sooner or later at the rate things are going.
I’m with Tyler. I think this is going to blow your mind when all the facts comes out.
Without going too much into conspiracies am I the only one to find the below circumstances odd?
1. cca. 580 people killed or wounded from a distance of some 400 yards. Even with ten full auto weapons and 100 round C-mags it is only 1 000 bullets. 60% hit ratio is more than good for someone without proper training, even considering the crowd.
2. For me it is uncomprehensible that some1 can smuggle 10 long weapons into a hotel room (weight? dimensions?)
3. What was the hotel security doing? The shooting was loud. Did really noone tried to intervene from the staff?
4. This heinious attack needed serious preparations. Did noone really noticed?
Since I am only a civilian with limited small arms, and security knowledge I would be happy to be convinced that there are answers to all of the above.
Here are some more video clips claimed to be from the incident. The first one looks as if it was taken from a distance in front of the stage while music is being played. What sounds like automatic gunfire then begins. The music stops. After a pause, there are more sounds of apparent gunfire. The audio tracks of these videos merit close listening as to whether they show that more than one automatic weapon was being fired, sometimes at the same time. The repetitive sounds are of at least two different tones and pitches, one higher than the other, and they sometimes are going on at the same time and sometimes not–
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c18_1506981117
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=56a_1506926722
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=57b_1506927612
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=a5d_1506935851
In this video, two witnesses are interviewed, and one thinks that there was more than one source of gunfire, including what seems to be the impression that at least one person shooting was on the ground–
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=336_1506955624
The following witness interview is of two people who were at a listening area some distance away from the Mandalay Bay hotel and casino, and bullets were ricocheting where they were–
https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=521_1506962720
Photos of the Mandalay Bay appear to have been taken on Monday, 2 October, by David Becker and are placed with the Getty Images website. They show two broken windows at the ends of a span 11 window frames apart–
http://www.gettyimages.com/photos/david-becker
Clicking on the photo of the hotel in the link above switched to a different page with about three or so additional photos of the broken windows, but at the time of this writing, they are not there and have been removed or moved. I stupidly forgot to make a screen shot of it, although I have now made one of the link above.
Las Vegas hotels and casinos have very thorough security systems and practices, or at least they used to. The named suspect would have appeared on cameras going back in time, which would likely also show any luggage. If he was somewhat of a regular gambler at that casino, he would be known to the casino and hotel management, and may have received some complimentary benefits, such as a free room, meals, etc., depending on how much he gambled. From those instances, the hotel and casino would have detailed records of his visits.
He spent a lot of time at the casino apparently. I imagine he lost a lot of money, given that it is highly unlikely one can walk away a winner over the long run. I think a deep dive into his financials will help determine this.
Perhaps he just thought that this would be a way to exact a very costly revenge on Vegas.
On another note, I would very much like to see the CCTV videos of this guy going in and out of his room/floor released.
Balint,
I think you will find that most of the wounded were hit by bullet fragments from rounds that hit the ground or had broken up passing through bodies and that a lot of those hospitalized weren’t hit at all, but had been hurt by the crowd as it panicked, pushed, jumped barriers, etc; broken ribs, ankles and that sort of thing. Probably some psychiatric casualties as well with severe reactions needing to be helped to calm down and mentally regroup.
Ask Richard Jewell or Steven Hatfill about the quality of FBI investigations. I’d have more confidence in Pinkertons.
The initial burst, of what I believe to be 75 rounds, is sustained and extremely even in its rhythm indicating some sort of fully automatic type function. However, the rate of fire seems to indicate this is not a full-auto variant of whatever weapons system is being employed as it is slow enough to nearly allow us a proper round count.
It takes 10 to 11 seconds for the first 75 rounds to be fired (12 second mark to the 22/23 second mark).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNDiTyl7ap4
Linked here is a 90-round drum fired from an AR variant on Full-Auto. This 90-round drum lasts from the 13 second mark to the 19 second mark, 6 seconds. A rate of fire not achieved by the Las Vegas shooter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLDj0XcHBA8
Linked here is a 75-round drum fired from an AK variant on Full-Auto. This 75-round drum lasts from the 21 second mark to the 28 second mark, 7 seconds. A rate of fire not achieved by the Las Vegas shooter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zuc5qxSYjUs&pbjreload=10
The second burst (@ 1:00) is the odd one that solidifies in my mind that a crank was used. There is a delay or slowing in the rate of fire which would be consistent with a gatling style crank mechanism. These delays are recognized just after the 1 min mark within the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNDiTyl7ap4
1664RM,
Right. They don’t know squat at this point. The liberal media is eating up the number of guns in the hotel room; using it as evidence of just how crazy this gun nut really was. I see it differently. The number of guns tells me that this was a conspiracy and Paddock expected some guests to arrive and help him out with this act of terrorism. I think that is why he waited until late in the show to start shooting (“hey guys, where are you?”). The Hispanic couple that witnesses reported were walking around taunting concert goers that they were “all going to die tonight” supports the theory. The couple was escorted out of the concert according to witnesses. There will be someone in security that recalls and describes these people. Maybe some security camera shots as well. It’s going to take a while to determine what really happened. Paddock is not at all who the media is portraying him to be, IMO.
Eric Newhill
All that is needed in this event is a grassy mound. With that this would belong to the ages. Your theory is a Latino plot against the gringos? pl
1664RM
Who is Lisa Jean? pl
Despite my Turkish background, I can easily claim that I am from Las Vegas, I graduated from High School there, got my degrees at UNLV and continuously lived in Las Vegas 1977 to 2003 before I moved Europe side. I know Mesquite very well, and the surrounding area Logandale and Pahrump on the California side and people who live there. I bought a shotgun myself from the same gunstore Mr Paddock got some of his guns. We used to go hunting ducks around the marshes northeast of Lake Mead, or fishing for bass and catfish and camping having a great time. People of Mesquite were always considered more than a little weird, as it was way out of the way and really no place for a regular, sane person to live in unless they had a reason to keep away from the main stream life. The Militia and the Patriots were heavily represented out there, in fact I was approached to join many times by friends. Police did not like to go there, as my fraternity brother Todd had told me, who had joined the Metro police after UNLV and whose face I saw and recognized in one of Police briefings, and saw and confirmed his name on a news article. In short, I knew people like this guy and frankly, even then they scared the hell out of me. He is roughly about my age, and I am familiar with his mentality. There can not be any foreign connection there and it is very unlikely that he did not act alone. Very simple, he decided to go out with a big bang and had all the means to collect his arsenal, and even if people noticed, hell, everybody is crazy out in there and regardless of all the gun laws and are very heavily weaponized. No one would rat on their neighbor, or bar buddy because they had machine guns. The heat is unbearable there, it fries your brains 6 months of the year. No reason to go there except for a little shooting and camping. But it is a perfect place for loners, losers and in general people who can not function in society. And eventually it gets to you, and people snap. From my personal experience of the area and its people, and I don’t mean the transplants and tourists, this is what happened here. Very tragic, of course, but I got to see the nose of the Sphinx replica in front of Luxor, which actually got broken off few days before the grand opening and we got called in to fix it in a hurry. All the best my gray bearded wise friends, greetings from Istanbul.
LVPD has a 24/7 SWAT team. Does anyone else find it crazy that it took 72 minutes, almost an hour and fifteen minutes, before they breached the shooter’s door?? Hell, you’d think it would’ve taken no more than 30 minutes to start getting percussion grenades delivered into the room. Or 20 minutes for some SWAT guys to return fire on shooter. But people were being gunned down for over an hour as LVPD/SWAT organized their operation to breach the shooter’s room. And all we hear about is the heroic actions of the police. I think police departments have been hampered by the excessive active shooter training, increased protocol/procedures, and excessive focus on officer safety über alles. In the North Hollywood shootout, a couple
bank robbers used automatic weapons against cops who arrived on the scene. In exactly 18 minutes SWAT guys in an LAPD cruiser came rolling into the fray and got out, took position and started to take out the robbers. The SWAT guys were dressed in shorts with protective vests. Almost like they had come from the gym or a BBQ. They arrived on the scene faster than the LVPD SWAT took to get suited up (going to war against one shooter).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Hollywood_shootout
My prediction is the only thing that will end up being banned by any new laws will be those bump devices.
Broken windows would have been fixed right away, as the Hotel is dealing with a monumental public relations disaster. Glass shop owner would have been woken up in the middle of the night, gather his crew and go there and fix the windows regardless of the cost.
And yes, Paddock would have been comped liberally especially with a NV Drivers licence. To bring in his arsenal piecemeal would have been easy especially if he is known to the security people. He might have taken care not to bring in luggage during the same shift, an alert security guy could have become suspicious, and shifts change 3 times a day, maybe more often. Both on the floor and the security booth.
Not a big deal to break down the guns and fit them into backpacks or small rolling luggage. I predict now all hotels will have airport type security doors as they do here in Turkey.
And one more thing, there are deranged people in every open air concert yelling stupid stuff.
Unlike that nutter in the Philippines he specifically targeted the country event though rather than shooting up the casino. A lot of planning went in to this and he made a rational choice for the snipers perch and, presumably, target. IS seems very keen to claim this but I still think some sort of antifa motivation with him triggered by the media hysteria.
Sir,
Just the usual rabble that has been amping themselves up to a frenzy, feeding themselves daily on violent hate filled propaganda against traditional America, whites, Trump,infidels, etc. taking it to the next level. A more organized version of the GOP baseball practice shooting.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-03/meet-iraq-war-veteran-who-led-police-vegas-shooter
I can’t get the video link in the link above to run, but according to the accompanying text at Zero Hedge this guy was in the hotel immediately two floors below him and when he was finally able to get thru to the authorities directed them to the shooter’s room. He was close enough to detect the sound differences among different types of weapons.
This guy is clearly on Youtube videos protesting at a anti-trump rally with a pink NASA shirt and pink hat. Every single comment on the video depends on if the person is a republican or democrat. Its sickening. I am an independent because I approach each subject on what I believe to be right. Universal healthcare, yes. Climate Change, give me a break. Tax cuts, not for the rich or anybody they are low enough. Medicare and SS I love and no I’m not retired. Gun control, I would be willing to fight over that one. I live in a rural community and I will protect myself and my family with my 2nd Amendment right. And no I don’t trust the left on this issue. The democrats clearly want to confiscate all of them.
Back to this guy. The media will clearly never tell the truth. He fired at a Country Concert full of women and guys wearing cowboy hats. He thought they were Trump supporters even though I’m sure there were anti-trump people sprinkled throughout the crowd. The guy who ran over the woman in Charlottesville was a psycho Trump supporter. Well this millionaire who is clearly on the youtube video protesting at an anti-trump rally is clearly a psycho democrat. If people can look at that video and actually believe its not him due to ideology then we are lost as a nation. And it ain’t coming back anytime soon.
Harlan Easley
Do you have any semi-auto rifles and if so do you think you need them as opposed to bolt action, pump, etc. Or is this a slippery slope argument that you are making? pl
Just to be even clearer, the delay between rounds that results in this lower rate of “automatic” fire is due to trigger reset. This is also a major tell in distinguishing that the weapon is not full-auto. This lower rate of “automatic” fire is also possible with a slidefire stock. A bipod or a forward grip placed as far forward as possible on a lower rail to act as a brace against an open window sill would be needed for accurate fire. These are what we are likely to see. Heavy drum magazines or Surefire High Capacity (60 or 100) magazines are extremely likely.
Harlan Easley,
Can you please provide a citation link to the video(s) in which you say the suspect appears?
The slippery slope argument 100%. I only have one. A 22 rifle. Had one since I was a kid. They are extremely accurate and I’m very comfortable with it. My knowledge of guns would pale next to you guys.
I always had a problem with the Gun Control legislation of 1995/96? when they made it retroactive on anybody with a misdemeanor domestic assault. So a guy arrested and convicted in 1981 lost his right to firearm for life. A law that can be created to change the rules after the fact smells of tyranny to me. I abhor domestic assault being a product of a single mother, however, with age I also understand that false accusations are not uncommon, unfortunately.
If I thought the left which some of their issues I support could negotiate in good faith then I would be open to suggestions. Such as eliminating the bump mechanism but that is about it and maybe assault weapons. But their goal is complete confiscation. Hillary was transparent about it when she kept bringing up Australia. So no I probably would only yield on the bump mechanisms being made illegal.
We don’t know the future. Anything else is unfair to future generations. Also I would never willingly give up my right to self-protection. And for the people who don’t understand I suggest living in a rural community with meth heads and then you may understand.
I don’t know what 1664RM meant, but here’s my hunch on Lisa Jean:
When I googled the name ‘Lisa Jean’ I found videos of one young, somewhat hot-ish, girl that on youtube likes to post videos of her shooting aloud and a lot – .50 cal things, AR15 and the like. On what I saw, she preferred to do so in short pants. Ah well.
That would be a ‘hot-ish gun nut gal‘, so to speak. But still, that’s just my hunch.
These people that you knew, how prevalent was drug usage among them?
Kunuri,
There is an Islamic center in Mesquite. ISIS has reiterated that Paddock was one of theirs and they have even given him a Kunya.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/stephen-paddock-isis-motive-islam-jihadi-name-las-vegas-shooting-abu-abd-al-bar-al-amriki-claim-a7980191.html
This YT poster (stay with it – he is not polished, but he is correct) says nothing can be concluded from the low-resolution clips of the rally.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPPGHt_FMsM
search on “anti-trump rally LV shooter” and check the clips yourself.
Generic white guys named Steve all look alike, but Rally Steve is animated, physically lively, cheerful, outgoing, and very much wants to be visible with his perky eared bright PINK hat, and his bright PINK NASA tee shirt.
ConfusedPonderer, you are correct. There is an earlier link in these comments of Lisa Jean assembling a bump stock onto an AR and unloading it onto targets in the desert.
Sir,
Agreed. It ain’t that hard to shoot an automatic rifle into a crowd with an effective range of 100m. People are acting like this is SEAL Team 6 level stuff but really its not. I’d be skeptical if an accountant had used tracers, herded them into his kill box, and then laid it on. That’s a bit more tradecraft than I would expect from a elderly boomer clerk.
You can be mostly asleep at the wheel and pull off a successful ambush with height + defilade + automatic weapons.
Anyone starting a sentence with “but the FBI said” needs to remember that these are the same people who said Pulse was not Islamic terror when Omar Mateen was swear allegiance to IS on his 911 call and that there was “no political motive involved” with Rep. Steve Scalise’s shooter (Bernie Bro who met with the man and said how much he wanted to kill Republicans).
So a hint, maybe a pinch of skepticism should be utilized before one begins with the assumption that the FBI is an unimpeachable source.
We may all have to give up something to “ensure domestic Tranquillity.” We can do this for each other.
We only have two handguns acquired many years ago and used only for target practice and protection in bear country. I understand folks who enjoy these activities and especially those who hunt. None of those
activities would have to be affected to keep us all more safe.
No 100% safety and that is okay, too.
Balint,
Most conspiracy theories are quite a bit less unbelievable than actual history. You can’t make it up and have it be nearly as weird as the actual events. All of those points you mention are indeed believable….the hotel has 3000 rooms and it is Vegas…weird is normal there and no, no one would have notice him bringing a bunch of luggage in and I do believe his girlfriend might have known something. Most of the wounds would have been from fragments and the dangers of the panicked crowd.
As to all comments to the automatic rifle rate of fire, you might find out that the auto weapon was a belt fed machine gun. Those fire more slowly, don’t they? Besides, a little bird told me. I cannot say more for discretion’s sake. Let the insults come rolling in.
fasteddiez
What would you like me to insult you about? In re the rate of fire. i heard it as pretty fast but then who am I to judge that? pl
Tyler,
It was revealed – apparently by Las Vegas LEOs – today that Paddock had video cameras inside the hotel room. Live feed? To whom? Hopefully the feed, if it exists, can be traced.
I wouldn’t be surprised if some extremist group wasn’t busy producing a glorious video right now, one that will be released when slick enough.
Large sums of money transferred overseas was also confirmed by LEOs. ISIS is pretty big in the Philippines right now and that seems to be where the money went.
How the FBI can rule out terrorist collusion in a matter of hours is beyond me. It’s been how long and they can’t rule out Trump collusion? Actually, it seems that the media misinterprets statements like “As far as we know at this time he acted alone” to mean that he acted alone as opposed to investigators doing a thorough job and not shooting from the hip before all the evidence is thoroughly examined + not compromising other aspects like letting suspects know what is coming at them.
fasteddiez,
No belt fed MG.
LEOs confirmed today that some AR type weapons had been modified to be quasi-automatic via a “bump fire” modification. This is not true full auto. Rather it seems to be a mechanism that permits semi-auto fire to occur at a rate that is faster than the human finger can squeeze the trigger. I don’t know exactly b/c I’ve never seen one though I can pretty much figure how it would work on the AR platform.
So it’s technically maximized semi-auto fire. IMO, such a thing should be made illegal.
Proper attire on the shooting range should include long-legged pants, button-up long sleeve shirt, hat and boots, not flip flops. Scoop neck blouses, shorts, thongs, are nice but too much opportunity to catch a spent round somewhere tender, from semi-autos. Those things are hot! Unless of course you want a burn scar in the shape of your favorite round in your cleavage or elsewhere. Trust me, seen this happen.
The shooting lasted 12 minutes, beginning to end. It was then at least an hour before the hotel room was entered. There were surveillance cameras everywhere installed by the perpetrator(s).
22:08 Police on the ground report ‘shots fired’
22:14 Officer on 31st floor says shots coming from ‘one floor above’
22:20 ‘It’s been awhile since we heard any shots,’ one officer says
22:27 Officer reports that a hotel security guard has been ‘shot on 32nd floor’
23:20 Swat teams enter gunman’s room. They find ‘one suspect down’
You say below, “In re the rate of fire. i heard it as pretty fast but then who am I to judge that?” Exactly. Mr. Paddock wouldn’t have known a rate of fire from a rap song. He had no background in any of this. The hotel room was 400 yards from the stage. In ignorance, I ask to what extent he had to take into account wind, if any. But how many mass murderers even consider shooting from 400 yards away? How many anybodies consider shooting anything 400 yards away? I can’t see 400 yards away.
But in any case, he used the weapons as a fire hose, spraying what he knew where very destructive bullets over the crowd: 59 dead over 500 wounded. He didn’t aim at specific individuals. The authorities are saying that this was an incredibly thought out crime. Maybe Paddock was capable of it, but he just doesn’t have anything in the background we know that would indicate it. And he was 64. How many mass murderers age 64 have there been?
In any event, now we have to avoid crowded places within 400 yards of a high rise. And make sure our relatives do too. Unbelievably, this crime while astounding in its creation will be very easy to duplicate.
Great news, the weapons used were not mechanically altered so the were legal. I’ll bet the families of the dead are happy to hear that.
It was 400 meters. Measure it on Google maps.
latest news on TV & LATimes is that they found 23 guns in his hotel room with at least 12 modified for bump-firing mimicing full-auto
this is prompting a call to ban bump-firing mods (which cost $99 & up)
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/10/03/whats-the-bump-fire-stock-that-the-vegas-killer-may-have-used-to-killed-59-people/
fasteddiez –
There is a sport model of the SAW. It supposedly is jiggered so that conversion back to full auto is impossible. But nothing was impossible for an old regimental armorer I knew. He probably owns a gun store now. But he was Pennsylvania Dutch, I doubt he has moved to Nevada.
Newspaper reports show Paddock was a multimillionaire who worked as accountant for defense contractor Lockheed Martin, IRS, & postal service
&
has a record of gambling $40,000 a day, owned 2 planes with a pilots license, a wealthy real estaste investor who owned multiple properties
& like your uncle,
was abusive to his submissive Fillino girlfriend whom he was supporting..
and it’s common for men to wire tens of thousands to their Fillipino girlfriend/wife & their family in the Phillipines(80%-90% Catholic due to 500+ years of Spanish colonial rule) to buy property
–you
can buy nice beachfront houses in Phillipines for $20,000 & pay a maid $10/month to clean it –it also let’s the abusive men finacially control the girlfriend/wife & threaten to throw her family off the property and/or cut her off if she displeases him : http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-at-his-local-starbucks-vegas-shooter-1507060195-htmlstory.html
Marine, who was neighbour of Paddock, identified him as Trump supporter:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EZeiunoX7bY
Bill Herschel,
Or did he have help. I’ve listened to videos that indicate there were multiple shooters.
Steve g,
Yeah. That one. And his sidekick http://www.newsweek.com/marilou-danley-gunmans-girlfriend-social-security-number-677033
Richard,
http://news.abs-cbn.com/news/09/30/17/abu-sayyaf-has-franchise-of-bamboo-triad-duterte-claims
I want to know more about “girlfriend” and who at accountant really sent $to
raven
IMO all devices that are presently legal that can cause a semi-auto to mimic full auto should be made illegal. Nobody needs a toy like that. pl
Bill Herschel
I was being ironic. I have been using and handling automatic weapons for about 60 years. The rate of fire seemd fast to me. BTW, I see no reason why Paddock could not have done this alone, but we will see. pl
Bill,
I’m saying with the height the effective range was about 100m.
Eric,
Day 2 without a motive but the FBI can totally tell you it wasn’t Islam or hard left politics that drove a geriatric to mow down a country music concert.
tyler
Knock off the “geriatric” crap. i could have done this and I am much older than he. I increasingly incline toward something like a brain tumor in Paddock. pl
This man seems like he was well trained. Or am I mistaken..?
fool
He didn’t make a lot of money by being stupid and unable to learn. All the information needed is available on the internet in Utube. that and a few trips to a range would suffice. As for the range to target, he was not shooting at individual people and only had to get the range right. pl
pl,
You’re absolutely right about this not requiring a great amount of training. He could have done all this, including the surveillance cameras, with knowledge gained from YouTube videos. Seems he bought 33 weapons in the last year across 4 states. I think background check info is purged regularly or purposely not kept in a searchable database so I doubt this buying spree would have alerted anybody. The few photos out now show a stack of 100 round box magazines rather than the dual drum magazines I first read about. They also show two bipod equipped AR-15 type weapons rather than tripods. Maybe tripods may be near the windows. Those 100 round box magazines are currently out of stock at many online sites at the moment. They’re going for under $100 each.
He does appear to be a “gun enthusiast” or gun nut as I call them as opposed to a collector of historically interesting arms. I’m surprised I haven’t heard of any range activity yet. Maybe he just used remote desert locations rather than organized ranges. I assume an examination of the weapons will determine if he used these weapons in practice. Firing these weapons in “full auto mode” for any length of time will probably leave evidence of barrel burnout. I would think that’s why he had so many in his hotel suite. Shooting at a crowd of over 20,000 in an enclosed pen would undoubtedly burn out a barrel or two or cause jamming.
I’m with you on the brain tumor type of explanation. He also filled out a prescription for valium a few months ago. Maybe he felt signs of Alzheimer’s coming on and didn’t want to go out that way. Couple that with his apparent onset of gun enthusiasm and we got a real problem. I saw some of that reasoning impairment in my father-in-law.
Looks like he tried to set up a similar ambush to hit another outdoor concert featuring Chance the Rapper and Lorde a few weeks ago. Couple that with a former Marine neighbor of the shooter claiming Paddock was a Trump supporter tends to blow a hole in the political motivation theories. He didn’t give a damn who he was shooting.
Hello Jim,
I listened to all 9 minutes of the guy named Rick who called into the Michael Savage radio show and says he was a neighbor of Stephen Paddock in Mesquite, NV from Dec.2015 to June 2016. This call-in guy says he lives in
Pittsburgh, PA now.
Couple of things. I believe the call-in guy loses credibility when he believed the whole thing was staged and that Stephen Paddock couldn’t be involved.
Also do I believe my eyes or a random caller to a radio show whose identity cannot be confirmed.
I believe my eyes right now. The video of the guy with the Pink NASA shirt and Pink hat is videoed in an anti-trump rally in Reno, NV. Stephen Paddock has or had a home in Reno, NV at that time.
Finally, it’s really simple to clear this up. Have somebody in the media or the authorities produce this guy in the video if he is still alive or let the guy come forward from the video to threaten defamation or something then I will change my mind. Even over my own ego. And admit I was wrong.
Right now all I hear is crickets.
TTG,
Some guy calls a radio station and says he was in the Corps and was Paddock’s neighbor and that once he was wearing a pro-Trump T-shirt and that Paddock nodded positively at the shirt. Yet he also says that Paddock never talked politics. One thing about Trump supporters is that they are passionate about politics and when they meet another supporter they start to talk politics.
If there is any truth whatsoever to the caller’s story, Paddock was probably just being polite about the Trump shirt, just as I am when I publicly encounter someone otherwise likeable who is pro-Bernie.
Valium would not be prescribed for any of those organic brain conditions other than Parkinson’s (which doesn’t alter thought, but the ability to control movement – the valium helps relax the body). Valium is typically for inability to sleep and for acute anxiety. It is reasonable that someone planning a mass murder/suicide would experience acute anxiety and have trouble sleeping. That the would be mass murderer experiences anxiety shows that he is still in possession of most, if not all, normal humans faculties. Then again, valium could be to help control racing thoughts and anxiety due to some more serious underlying mental disorder. It is important to find out where he got the valium. The doctor would have important insights. Now that Paddock is dead the physician records can be capture via court order.
I am surprised at the lack of a manifesto. The mass shooters always make one in one shape or form if they are of the just plain crazy bent. Even Lanza left a long rambling note. Who doesn’t leave a personal manifesto is a jihadist. I suspect the cameras in the room recorded something that will serve as an explanation – coherent or otherwise – of the motivation.
I am interested that ISIS claimed responsibility twice; with the first time being immediately following the event. This would be a huge risk to ISIS if they were fabricating. For all they knew, if there was no connection to Paddock, Paddock could have left a manifesto explaining some other motivation having nothing to do with jihad. Then IS would have had egg all over its face and lost credibility. OTOH, maybe it is a sign that IS is on the ropes and desperate enough to scan the news for events that it can claim even if proven to be false in short order.
We’ll know soon enough.
Perhaps some useful context on brain tumors & a shooting spree;
http://www.dailytexanonline.com/2016/07/30/experts-still-disagree-on-role-of-tower-shooters-brain-tumor
One of the issues one must consider is Paddock’s apparent intense focus on details and his planning over a considerable period. And two possibilities to bear in mind; that his causation is a complex of factors ultimately impossible to quantify in their proportional contributions or even the explicit trigger, and that it may simply never be clearly understood. As my kids were growing up and such events occurred, about all I could tell them was that there were 7 billion humans on Earth and that some of them were deeply, dangerously broken.
Oops, I copy/pasted this reply to a friend in a Facebook forum asking about Paddock –the “like your uncle” was reference to his abusive uncle, not to anyone on this site … sorry for any misunderstanding
Believe me, I know you were being ironic. I guess I didn’t make that clear. The point being that this 64 year old had no military background.
It probably doesn’t matter who did this. The nature of the crime outweighs the identity of the perpetrator.
Most people who are against gun control practice gun control at home, i.e. they lock up the guns to keep them away from their children or visitors and the like. But apparently what’s good enough for their families and friends is not good enough for society at large.
But the moral inconsistency and logical failure of gun advocates is much more profound than that. The central argument of the gun lobby is that arming citizens prevents violence: the returning fire argument. And I suppose that the essence of this argument is that if every attendee at the concert had had an AR-15 slung over their shoulder, they could have returned fire at the hotel and prevented the tragedy, or minimized it. In fact, one of the attendees said afterward that he was very disturbed that he did not have his gun with him so that he could have returned fire.
In other words, there is not enough gun ownership in the U.S. and only until gun ownership reaches a critical mass will mass murders become a thing of the past. There is of course not a scintilla of evidence to support this argument and every shred of evidence supports its opposite.
Eric,
RE: it’s common for men to wire tens of thousands to their Fillipino girlfriend/wife & their family in the Phillipines(80%-90% Catholic due to 500+ years of Spanish colonial rule) to buy property
–you
can buy nice beachfront houses in Phillipines for $20,000 & pay a maid $10/month to clean it –it also let’s the abusive men finacially control the girlfriend/wife & threaten to throw her family off the property and/or cut her off if she displeases him :
re: Newspaper reports show Paddock was a multimillionaire who worked as accountant for defense contractor Lockheed Martin, IRS, & postal service
&
has a record of gambling $10,000- $40,000 a day, owned 2 planes with a pilots license, a wealthy real estaste investor who owned multiple properties
& like your uncle,
was abusive to his submissive Fillino girlfriend whom he was supporting..
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-las-vegas-shooting-live-updates-at-his-local-starbucks-vegas-shooter-1507060195-htmlstory.html
All
I have carried and used a variety of personal auto weapons; Thompson (too heavy), Uzi (don’t like 9mm), Madsen, Swedish K, Schmeisser (more 9mm). My favorie is the .45 ACP M3 grease gun. Light, cheap, just a few crude stampings except for barrel. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M3_submachine_gun Not accurate? You point it at his knees and walk a few rounds up through him as the gun climbs. I am also quite good with theM60 machine gun either bipood or tripod with T&E mechanism. I never like the old Browning 30-06 cal. machine gun. 50 caliber M-2 (Ma Deuce) is for the ages. They will using them out among the stars. I take your point about the slippery slope, but this is too much. IMO all the bump stock devices should be outlawed. But, as my wife said Americans are ingenious and will make their own. Canadians are more submissive and most would wait for government permission. Those who yearn for rebellion should remember that defectors from the ground forces would bring their guns with them. pl
All
The BAR is an excellent piece, but the 20 round magazines are a problem for me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1918_Browning_Automatic_Rifle pl
As time passes without light being shed on a motive I become I am more and more intrigued by the “radicalization” IS angle to this story. FBI statements saying “no known links to international terrorism” are meaningless in such cases because only top down links are considered in this wording. There have been only two IS attacks out of the dozens and dozens since ’14 that have top down links(Paris and Belgium, the same cell). The san bernadino attacks and Omar mateen also have “no known links to international terror” even when the latter repeatedly called the police to pledge his allegiance as he was mowing people down. Also very interesting to note that IS doubled down on the claim, with not just the usual amaq release worded to give deniability (“source to amaq:”), but an official Islamic State communiqué with his kunya
pl,
And the BAR is a heavy sucker to pack around.
The old M3 SMG was one of everyone’s favorite for heavy cover, AKA those jungles.
The Ma Duece has been in service for something like 84 years, never been another heavy machine gun as good or as versatile.
I had a bad feeling about those so called “Bump Stocks” when I first heard about them, big problem is it’s easy to come up with ways to make light semi auto weapons fire on their own recoil.
I support 2nd Amendment but Wow, that guy saying he would return fire at Paddock who was up in a sniper position on the 32nd floor (320 feet up) & 400 yards away is totally unrealistic … he would be shooting from a too-low position from far away & have hit adjacent windows/bystanders at the hotel
unless he had a scope & rifle (most gun carriers carry pistols, which would be ineffective & inaccurate at that range), even assuming he could tell which he window Paddock was shooting from 400 yrs away & 320 feet below his 32nd floor
The San Bernadino shooters & Mateen as well as other jihadists/ISIS idiots all pledged allegiance to ISIS publically before/during their attacks as well as saying ‘allah akhbar’ so doubtful Paddock was really jihadist since he never pledged allegiance to ISIS nor yelled ‘allah ahkbar’
as noted before, it’s common to males to wire tens of thousands to their Phillipino wives/girlfriends & family in the Phillipines to buy properties, especially beachfront tropical property since you can buy nice beachfront homes on tropical beaches for as low as $10,000 to $20,000 (one my registered nurse friends did just that) as a vacation home, retirement home, or rental property ..
it
also gives the male (and according to reports, Paddock was a controlling, abusive boyfriend) controlling power by threatening to throw the wife/gf’s off the property if she displeases him
pl,
We would put one of those spring-loaded stamped metal M-16 bipods on the M3 grease guns and fire them single shot using trigger control. The massive bolt in those things slowed the cyclic rate down so much, aimed single shots were easy to master. Our marksmanship teams would do the same with the M60 during competition.
My favorite was a Russian made AKMS with several 75 round Russian made drum magazines. It was easy to carry and I could lay down a sustained suppressive fire firing from the hip with the aid of the sling. It was like using a fire hose. I’d love to have it now strictly for sentimental reasons. I’d also like to have the hatchet I carried, but that was left in the Shouf along with the AKMS.
I’d also support the banning of those bump stocks and similar devices. I’d also like to see a ban on the manufacture of extended capacity after market magazines. I’m more sympathetic those that go with historical and replica weapons. I can understand hobbyists desire to own them. I can also understand farmers having AR-15 like weapons with 30 round magazines to eradicate feral pig herds tearing up their crops.
Sir,
To be fair, you’re still a man of your hands and look ready to take all challengers, but wilco.
Eric, latest update after FBI interview with his CATHOLIC girlfriend (who by all accounts is described as nicest, sweetest, socialable woman) : https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/04/us/las-vegas-shooting.html
” In her first public statement since the Las Vegas massacre, the gunman’s girlfriend said Wednesday that he had sent her on a trip to the Philippines and wired her money there, but that she did not know he was planning to harm anyone.
“I knew Stephen Paddock as a kind, caring, quiet man. I loved him and hoped for a quiet future together with him,” the woman, Marilou Danley said, referring to the gunman, in a statement read by her lawyer, Matthew Lombard. “It never occurred to me in any way whatsoever that he was planning violence against anyone.”
The statement, which came after Ms. Danley went to the Los Angeles offices of the F.B.I. for questioning, according to a law enforcement official, was released as the authorities sought her insight into what prompted a man with no evident criminal history to become a mass murderer.
Ms. Danley said she was grateful to Mr. Paddock for the trip to the Philippines, her native country, to visit family, but when he wired her money, “which he said was for me to buy a house for me and my family,” she feared that it was his “way of breaking up with me.”
She stressed that she returned to the United States voluntarily, “because I know that the F.B.I. and the Las Vegas police department wanted to talk to me, and I wanted to talk to them.”
Eric, Paddock rented rooms a week earlier overlooking the Chance the Rapper & Lorde concerts as a ‘dry run’ practice or he lost his nerve earlier so as TTG noted, country music concert was just a convenient target when his earlier target didn’t pan out, especially since his brother & others said he listened to & liked country music
https://www.thedailybeast.com/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-may-have-first-planned-to-attack-chance-the-rapper-and-lorde-concert
Bret, news reports it took 72 mins because the cops went to the wrong venue.. going to the concert instead of Mandalay Resort.. then they went clearing floor by floor, room by room from 1st floor to 32nd floor instead of going directly to floor 32
Eric, I’ve been to many concerts/large gatherings in SoCal & there’s always some loon yelling, “You’re all going to Die!” “Repent Now & come to Jesus!” “Only Jesus Can SAve You from Hell!” , “The world is going to end! Only thru Jesus will you be saved!” etc
even if only 1% are loons, that’s 1-10 loonies at a gathering of thousands
Eric,
more on the girlfriend (who is Catholic)
her sisters say Paddock sent his Catholic girlfriend Marilou away to Phillipines so that he could plan & carry out his sinister plans without interruption nor being snitched on –and that she was gentle kind person so afraid of taking chances that she would drive an extra 3 blocks to avoid making a left turn at a busy intersection
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/las-vegas-shooting/las-vegas-shooter-sent-girlfriend-marilou-danley-away-spare-her-n807341
You are wrong and just repeating an MSM talking point that I am suspiciously noticing everywhere. San bernadino shooters never made any pledge or audio message, all we had to go by was that they were muslim. ISIS inspired attacks leaving pledges or audio messages are the exceptions rather than the rule, off the top of my head out of the dozens and dozens of stabbings,shootings,rammings inspired by ISIS since 2014 I can name Mateen, the German truck rammer, the two dimwits who beheaded the priest in france, the other dimwit in france that home invaded a cop’s house and killed one person.
How do you know he didn’t yell “allah akbar”. He would have yelled it to, you know, himself, way up there in his room. The only thing that doesnt make me accept the ISIS thing right off the bat is that he committed suicide. But he could have been a new convert that realized the magnitude of what he had done and just got spooked and decided to end it right there and then. Who knows. It could be a combination of some physical mental illness(tumor) and being radicalized in a very very short period. There are many lone wolf cases where radicalization was seemingly accomplished on a very short time scale with or without an intermediary
I carried a BAR. Great weapon. Slow fire, you could squeeze off a two round burst easily, and even a single round burst if you tried. Then they screwed up replacing it with the M14 and the infamous auto-fire selector.
But the BAR would not get many buyers today in the era of ‘spray and pray’.
Taxi cab video recorder gives a real time record of the gunfire and the ensuing chaos. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb4ndcvoZNs
An interview with the shooter’s brother is revealing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPZFN6VFFow
My penchant for Swede historic arms led me to find that BAR was also produced in 6.5 X 55 mm in limited number, oh to find one! I have some Belgian made Brownings, fantastic workmanship.
I also tracked some auctions on Swede K and other class 3, but they rapidly went beyond working class budget (way…). Just shooting one of these for few seconds is a $100 proposition!
I could get behind legislation of only bolt, slide, lever actions of no more than 5 rounds. All you really need for sport or target. Semi-auto pistols 8-10 rd clip max. If you can’t do it in 10, why bother?
Single shot black powder is 99 percent of what I shoot for target and hunt. One is enough.
I want one of those bump stocks for black powder, but then I need a “bump loader” to go with it >snark< Damn gadget would outweigh the gun.
Valium AKA diazepam although used to calm anxiety, can also provoke anger and aggression in some, and/or suicidal thoughts. It can induce fits of rage or violence, especially in the elderly. This is well known, or should be by now, throughout the medical profession.
John Hinckley was put on valium by his doctor not long before he tried to gun down President Reagan. Not long after that they gave my father valium to calm anxiety while he was in a recuperation center after a hip replacement. It had the opposite effect. He did not get physically violent, but he verbally abused the staff and started peeling the wallpaper (spiders he said). When I complained they stopped the valium and he reverted to his normal self – courteous, amiable, and cheerful.
From Wikipedia: “Less commonly, paradoxical side effects can occur, including nervousness, irritability, excitement, worsening of seizures, insomnia, muscle cramps, changes in libido, and in some cases, rage and violence. These adverse reactions are more likely to occur in children, the elderly, and individuals with a history of drug or alcohol abuse and or aggression. Diazepam may increase, in some people, the propensity toward self-harming behaviours and, in extreme cases, may provoke suicidal tendencies or acts.
Paddock is six foot four inches tall. There is no way that he could be the short to medium height guy at the anti-Trump rally in Reno, the one in the pink NASA shirt and hat that Limbaugh and the alt-right are hyperventilating about.
Some others are claiming Paddock has an MS13 tattoo on his neck. Clearly he did not in the photo of his corpse in the hotel room.
But why let facts get in the way of bizarre conspiracy theories?
Oh, not necessarily you Colonel. The statement was put out in case Lawmen stated they did not find a belt fed MG, and my supposition, especially on the rapidity of the rate of fire, was proven wrong. By the way, photos and drawings of the suite are now available and point out that his collection of firearms were a whole mess of AR-15s with a variety of optics and bipods.
BuddhistHarmony,
I have no idea what you’re talking about re “& like your uncle,
was abusive to his submissive Fillino girlfriend whom he was supporting”
I had three uncles in my life time. Two are now deceased. None had anything to do with Asian women and none were abusive to women of any sort to the best of my knowledge. Actually, all three were very decent successful men who were married to the same woman their entire lives.
He clearly had a 13 on his throat on the first published photo.
Mike,
He clearly had a 13 on his throat in the original pic (w/ the GF) that was circulated heavily from the outset of the story. Maybe it was drawn on with a magic marker. It needs to be explained. It’s definitely evidence of something.
I don’t know any “retired accountants” that go out in public w/ a 13 drawn or tatted on their throat. This is a very weird dude and he’s is not at all any of the things the media narrative is pushing. I also don’t know any accountants who have a work history of a few month that retire as millionaires. I don’t think he was an accountant for anything resembling a career. Where did he work the past 30 years or so?
Of course the GF and the brother will deny knowledge of anything that would have indicated the coming storm.
As far as the antifa and other leftist connections goes; you desperately don’t want it to be true. However, we have already had one proven mad gunman with that background. Anftifa has been calling for violence. BLM has been calling for violence. This is not speculation. Their adherents are all over social media making such statements. Jihad groups have been calling for violence. You may not be aware that all of these groups hate white people, a lot. The hatred of whites – especially conservative ones, is so strong, and so normalized in those circles, that college profs and media execs feel free t openly express it. A media exec was fired for basically giving the thumbs up to Paddock’s actions against country music fans. So don’t give us that crap about it all being wacky conspiracy theory. I never thought the guy in the pink hat was Paddock, but it could be, metaphorically, already has been (GOP baseball shooter) and most certainly will be. An alliance of these groups is most certainly forming b/c enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Even the LV Sheriff says it’s a no brainer that Paddock wasn’t acting alone and he hinted that he is aware of some evidence to prove that.
Was it Hispanics or Muslims who were somehow involved. You seem to be all over the place with your accusations.
PA,
Your mental contortions are funny.
But Dylan Roof and the statue marchers really are a dangerous conglomeration of real kluckers and Nazis, right?
Todd,
Did they get rid of the people who hired her? I’m sure there are plenty more like her at CBS.
Laura,
Does that include the right to free speech? It’s not welcome on college campuses any longer so why allow it anywhere. Search warrants are so passe. Then the rest of the right to due process of law. Who needs that when we need the State to keep us safe.
Pacifica,
That’s three times you’ve repeated that line.
The Las Vegas Review Journal has some interesting articles that add details to the big picture that only local sources can provide.
The following link is to an article giving valuable background information & insights on the LV/gaming world of high stakes video poker and Paddock’s place in it. He was a familiar figure:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/business/casinos-gaming/paddocks-game-of-choice-video-poker-allowed-him-to-blend-in/
Another article on LVRJ”s website details another of his targets, 2 avgas storage containers well beyond the concert venue that sustained 2 hits with one
of the bullets penetrating one of the tanks:
https://www.reviewjournal.com/local/the-strip/las-vegas-strip-shooter-targeted-aviation-fuel-tanks-source-says/
PS, to all of you theorists trying to use the nature of the CW concert goers as “evidence” of a political motivation, please consider the nature of the other potentially targeted musical fans who were attending the “Life Is Beautiful ” concert or the Lollapalooza concert in Chicago.
The killer was interested in the ease of access to masses of humanity, period.
Eric, sorry for the confusion, I posted earlier (on another reply) that what I posted was copied/pasted from my reply to a friend on a Facebook forum who had an abusive uncle asking about why/how men send thousands to their girlfriend or wife in 80%-90% Catholic Phillipines -“the abusive uncle” part has nothing to do with anyone on SST but was my friend’s own personal situation..
His dad is reported to be 6’4″. His brother is clearly on the shorter side. I have seen no official photo of him or documentation stating his height. From the one half picture of him released he appears to be around his brother’s height more on the short side.
Here again let the media or authorities release some pictures of him standing next to people or better yet let the guy on the video come forward. It is as simple as that. It would prove motive.
I wouldn’t blame the left. I would though blame the media for their demonization of the right. Particularly CNN, Washington Post, NY Times.
Serge, the San Bernadino shooter (wife) posted her pledge to ISIS on Facebook during the attack -according to people who knew her, she was also a radical Wahhabist who grew up in Pakistan & studied as pharmacist in Wahhabist Saudi Arabia, where intolerant Wahhabism is the official theocracratic Sharia law.
Plenty of latest news reports on it & FBI court documents show how they/wife pledged allegiance to ISIS on her Facebook page:
http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-message-tashfeen-malik-posted-on-facebook-during-attack-2015-12
“In the document, the FBI notes that after the December 2 attack started, a post on a Facebook page associated with Tashfeen Malik read: “We pledge allegiance to Khalifa bu bkr al bhaghdadi al quraishi.” The FBI agent noted that he believes the post is referring to Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, leader of the terrorist group ISIS — aka the Islamic State, ISIL, and Daesh.
The morning of December 2, Malik allegedly searched social media for “materials related to” ISIS, according to the FBI affidavit.”
more:
http://www.businessinsider.com/isis-message-tashfeen-malik-posted-on-facebook-during-attack-2015-12
http://people.com/crime/san-bernardino-shooter-tashfeen-malik-pledged-allegiance-to-isis/
Serge, also, ISIS & jihadists go out while fighting/suicide attacks on infidels, they don’t kill themselves by shooting themselves but blow up themselves up to kill as many infidels as they can while dying because that guarantees they goto heaven & get their 72 virgins ..
taking a bullet in the mouth by their own hand doesn’t get them heaven & their 72 virgins
Serge, also, news reports interviewed the hotel security guard 1st on the scene .. he went to/knocked on Paddock’s door & said that Paddock shot thru the door, injuring him in the leg & he stayed there the hole time in the hallway, even after injured, calling police & directing them to the right room -he never reported Paddock ever shouting ‘Allah Akhbar’ like all jihadists would do during their attacks..
ya, valium has been known & documented in some people to cause loss of inhibition & cause them to do suicidal or raging violent outbursts
Eric,
1) The ’13’ is just turkey neck wrinkles in a bad grainy photo (or otherwise photoshopped/doctored by people for a political agenda) .. that’s why you should NOT accept any photos from unofficial sources
2) Grainy distant video of an old white guy with a hat or Asian girl with sunglasses isn’t enough to identify anyone since there’s literally MILLIONs of old white guys with Asian girls in California & Nevada
According to Census/statistics, 50% of all Asian females born in the US marry a white guy & 33% of all Asian males born in US marry a white girl
That’s literally MILLIONs of mixed Asian-white married couples.. and even MILLIONS MORE that are dating
You see it everyday in California & Nevada.. and you see it on every street corner in Phillipines & Thailand of white guys (old & young) with Asian girls
So a grainy video of an old white guy with a Asian female does NOT automattically mean they are the same people as there are millions of such couples in Cali & Nevada
Eric,
BTW, MS-13 are drug dealers & pimps so how could he tatoo allegiance to them since ISIS are strict Wahhabists who even execute drug users, drug dealers, pimps, & prostitutes? They conflict & are arch enemies
Also, real MS-13 tatoos are like Yakuza & cover almost the entire face, neck, & back & always include MS, not just 13
below are pics of real MS-13 tatoos (huge, with giant MS, not just 13) & they are totally unlike anything than the wrinkly dubious ’13’ on his turkey neck:
http://www.cvltnation.com/marked-for-death-ms-13-18th-street-tattoos/
Eric/Tyler,
Law enforcement should & would do a thorough job & not rule out anything yet but go where the evidence is –but not to jump to premature conclusions
-if there is evidence of helpers, great, go after them but moving 10 wheeled suitcases(+ on trolleys) over 3 days is not evidence of that:
1) Law enforcement has confirmed he also rented & prepared a luxury room last week overlooking the “Life is Beautiful” which featured Chance the Rapper, Lorde, & Gorillaz so he didn’t care if he was shooting rap/pop music lovers or country music lovers, or liberals, or conservatives, white or black –he just wanted large targets of opportunity
2) LV sheriff asked if he could have done it alone (which the FBI then rebuked when sheriff said it was hard to believe).. 10 WHEELED suitcases (which can also be put on trolleys) on elevators over 3 days is easy to move even for a 64-yr old or with the help of bellboys, who will never look in or open your luggage anyways
3) 1,000s of rounds of ammo also is easy to move in wheeled suitcases/on trolleys, especially with bellboys
4) Timothy McVeigh, Rudolph, etc all acted alone while still moving even more, with much more heavier explosives on the bombings of Oklahoma City, Atlanta Olympic, & LBGT nightclub bombings & abortion clinic bombings
5) He set up baby monitors & wireless cameras(which you can buy for $39 at Frys.com & other electronics stores) in the hallway — (none of which show him yelling ‘Allah Ahkbar’ nor the hotel security guard mentioning that when he went to his door & Paddock shooting him in the leg thru the door)
No special knowledge needed nor skill needed
6) https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-gunman-stephen-paddock-survive-police
He said investigators were, however, pressing to find others who may have been involved. It was possible that Paddock was “a super guy” who was “working out all of this on his own”, Lombardo said. But he added: “It would be hard for me to believe that.”
The comment appeared to earn a veiled rebuke from the agent overseeing the FBI’s investigation.
“Theories are great and everyone can have a theory,” said Aaron Rouse, who runs the bureau’s Las Vegas division, and took to the lectern immediately after the sheriff’s comments. “But I need to deal with facts. The sheriff needs to deal with facts.” He added: “He’s not going to make assumptions. I’m not going to make assumptions.”
I found a picture of him in his High School year book 1971 on the tennis team. He appears about 5’9 to 5’10 in the picture approximately.
They ain’t mormons.
Hello lally,
Have you considered he did this to confuse the investigators when it comes to his motive. If this report is even true.
Actions speak louder than anything else. He shot a bunch of cowboys and gals along with people who I am sure do not support Trump. Regardless, his perception was in my opinion I am shooting Trump supporters.
Here is what I think happened. The investigators are not dumb. They know that is him in the anti-trump protest in Reno.
So can you imagine the authorities fear in releasing his motive. They are afraid of the response from some psycho or psycho’s in the right and this begin spiraling out of control. I understand that and concur with it frankly.
Also most of the media know they are complicit in demonizing the right. The orders from top down even to Fox is keep a lid on it.
Tonight I have heard reports of him moaning. Show me a medical diagnosis then. If this guy had a brain tumor then 10mg of Valium ain’t the ticket. It certainly didn’t slow down his gambling and drinking. And no reports of radiation or chemotherapy treatment or cutting edge treatment. The guy was rich.
On Tucker Carlson he reported that there are reports of him losing weight. No. His weight looks fine according to his death pictures.
It’s clear to me that the authorities are going to try to pin the motive on maybe health, maybe something else but definitely not the truth. Since the truth in the case will not set you free but may lead to further mass casualties. I actually agree even though I am extremely mad at CNN, Washington Post, NY Times, all of them basically for demonizing the right and in my opinion driving this guy over the top. For the record I voted for Obama twice and Trump this last time.
So at a minimum they don’t want the truth coming out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Km-kAKUJor8&feature=youtu.be
Seems to me information is being held back for the time being. Apparently the nutter did make a tape which will reveal his political motive.
Harlan Easley,
The MSM are hardly journalists. Their story is that Paddock was a white gun nut with lots of guns. He finally cracked and did what white gun nuts do. Case closed. Now let’s talk about banning guns.
There are so many questions in this case that point to Paddock being an international money launderer and, perhaps, arms dealer on the side. I ask again, where did he get all the money? An accountant? Hardly. He has a work history as an accountant of +/- 3 years back in the 80s. Professional gambler? The odds favor the house. He’d be broke in a short order. Real estate investor? Why doesn’t anyone know him? I had some modest real estate investments. As a result I was known to title agents, real estate agents, tenants,neighborhood associations, etc. The kind of money this guy was playing with, Donald Trump should have known him. What are the investments that permitted this lavish life style? A couple of houses on the fringes of cities?
He has traveled many times to the MENA and the Philippines as well as Europe. He takes a boat instead of an airplane in at least 20 known cases. Why the boat? Relatively lax security compared to flying?
I would not be surprised if he wasn’t somehow involved in something the CIA knows about. His international criminal activities could have easily brought him into contact with all kinds of unsavory characters, including jihadists. IMO, the jihadists turned him. Maybe he was already susceptible due to anti-American propaganda from the MSM liberals + his own bad biology (psychopathy). Whatever, the media is not asking any of the right questions because they want to bash on about guns. They also want it to be about bad white people and not jihadists and/or other radicals.
Paddock is not at all what the media portrays him to be. That is for sure. I just hope the various agencies will openly cooperate to share what they know and resources to get to the truth. Also, I hope they ultimately share the truth with us to the extent possible- and no matter how disturbing.
The tin-foil-hat brigade is out in force.