“Friday’s landmark ruling effectively returns all abortion-related matters to the states.
Some states will likely enact legislation to ban or severely abortion immediately, or in relatively short time.
Conversely, other states might challenge the basis of the Supreme Court’s formal judgment, through other esteemed cases.
Newsmax offers a capsule look at how the various states — and Washington, D.C. — are moving forward with abortion rights, in the wake of the high court’s 5-4 decision.”
Comment: Very much a mixed bag, as it should be given the very diverse culture predominate in the various states. pl
Roe V. Wade Overturned: Here’s How the Abortion Ruling Will Affect Each State | Newsmax.com
I read your provided NewsMax link Colonel,
Just a word to not be unnecessarily concerned where Arkansas possibly being among the first wave is concerned.
Should you out there in the wilds of Virginia suddenly awaken to a keening howl don’t worry much that the New Madrid’s about to light off again.
Most likely it’s just the extreme northwest coast of Arkansas and Little Rock just watched the evening news.
Quite interesting that the “prolife” states generally provide the least prenatal and subsequent child/maternal care than do the “prochoice” states.
Case in point, Mississippi at the same period they enacted legislation to severely limit abortions, that state cut back funding of prenatal and child/maternal care.
Al; cutting back on state funded prenatal care is not surprising. Col Lang used the phrasing very diverse CULTURE. Many of the states which d/n support abortion on demand are populated by citizens who d/n believe the state should have much involvement in procreation and care for one’s infant. Heck, I’m from metro NY and I agree. Some d/n believe it takes a village to raise your children.
When my wife was pregnant I assumed it was our role as Mother and Father of the child to provide prenatal and on-going care. The state I live in didn’t have anything to do with the conception.
Abortion is a process. Infanticide is the goal.
Chemical prevention of implantation (morning after pill) is the answer to the “rape and intent” exceptions. You don’t need to wait 9 months for a live birth infanticide to know you were initially raped.
The left’s meltdown over this is going to continue. A brief perusal of LinkedIn, the ‘business’ networking site that’s rapidly becoming facebook/twitter is showing a plethora of companies, executives, HR staffers and others vowing to do everything from helping women cross state lines to procure an abortion to destroying the careers of prolife employees. I don’t think too many companies doing so have thought through the affects it will have on their own employees, their customers, or the legal remifications of these statements by themselves or their employees.
Fred; all this hysteria over the death of liberty, a totalitarian state; a stasi Supreme Ct, etc etc, is no more than “my way or the highway”. Pity that so many can not see the real totalitarian impulse here. It aint from the right.
Amen brother. What’s it all about? This is brief and to the point:
Businesses are stuck now with paid family leave and training a short term replacement person, since that job position must be kept open for the return after the paid family leave.
Large organizations decided instead it was cheaper to support infanticide. Democrat meddling with business decisions led to this new support for paid infanticide. This is slippery slope argument in action.
Old enough to remember when people waited to have sex within a marriage, waited until they could afford to have a child, budgeted to live on one income with a stay at home mom, and made their own infant formula from real ingredients, not a pastiche of chemicals that probably has too much estrogen-rich soy for boys that prevents them from growing up and be real men today.
For me is is a matter of who decides a personal decision. The State, or the individual? I support the latter. I guess a lot of Republicans will have to decide if they are Stalinists, or not. The opinion overturning Roe v. Wade ignores quite a bit of the Constitution, especially the 13th and 14th Amendments, as the arguments were cherry picked. But what Alito, et al, failed to consider is that history, like time, move forward. Trying to reverse that will in the end fail. Besides, it is probably bad politics to tick off a 100 million plus women.
Over-turning Roe does not reverse the will of the people.
This ruling just allows it to be exercised more locally, where Roe in fact did overturn the will of those people in those states who now want far more restrictions besides infanticide on demand and up to live birth baby killing.
It does not overturn the will of those states who are quite happy with continued infanticide. In today’s easy transportation world, it is no inconvenience to travel to a pro-infanticide sanctuary state particularly when those states now commit to use local tax dollars to support this new infanticide tourism.
Some thoughts; the 13th and 14th Amendments were about slavery not abortion. Twisting those amendments into a “penumbra” was a change to the constitution w/o an amendment. Don’t SC justices not know about Article V? The accusation that Reps. are Stalinists ignores the obvious destruction of ppty and peace by those who favor abortion on demand. Those who apply violence to society to force their will upon it are domestic terrorist. Conservatives have accepted Roe for fifty years w/little violence. Abortion on demand is often done w/tax payer dollars ignoring the wishes of those in dissent. Don’t they count? How would Stalin deal w/such dissenters? You make the observation that history moves on. That tells me you believe in the “living constitution”, a temporal thing. I am an originalists. I accept interpretation (it isn’t 1787 anymore) but not absolute change. Those who disagree w/me can change the constitution completely by amendment. Amendment allows time for all to air their opinion. Stalinist rarely accept other opinions. Accept the idea that not everyone agrees w/you and no one can ever call you a Stalinists.
Glad to hear you are against mandatory medical treatments, like the vax, due to the clarity of the 13th and 14th amendments in that regard.
Unless the state is forcing people to have unprotected sex, the individual does make the choice. Leaving rape out of the argument, everyone glosses over the first choice and screams about the second.
Yup. This issue goes right to the heart of the postdiluvian 1960’s counter culture ethos of Marxism-Hedonism. A key tenet of which is the absolute right to take no responsibility for one’s actions – and have the State pick up the slack. Deny that right to anyone else and you are cast as oppressor. The State is happy with this arrangement as in return for granting more license, which nowadays includes ‘rights’ like the ability to identify as ‘non-binary’ and all sorts of other superficial/insane nonsense, it gets to curb real liberty – so as to guarantee the these ‘rights’. Neat.
Real freedoms are accompanied by concomitant responsibilities, the most important of which is the responsibility to fight State encroachment on these freedoms. So much easier to just have a good time and leave it up to the State to define what it means to be free. In my view the right to an abortion is not a fundamental freedom. Those who believe it is will now have to fight for it. I hope they learn something along the way.
BA you are wittingly or not, expressing classical libertarianism. Liberty demands responsibility. Have, take, and enjoy all the liberty possible, but the word “possible” is a very big conditioner. You are also wise to note the ulterior motives of the state. Maybe I should welcome you to the “dark world of the libertarian”. Some luminaries, Milton Friedman, Thomas Jefferson, Rand Paul, Calvin Coolidge were not such bad people.
I have a pathological aversion to ideology of any sort and eschew idealism wherever it is to be found – particularly in politics. In that sense the libertarians (even the ones who know what Aleppo is) have no better solution to the society’s ills than anyone else. Since progressivism came to so totally subsume what we used to call “the Left” I find myself these days agreeing more often with Burke than anyone else.
That said, I’d not be unhappy to be welcomed to your dark world to sail the tempestuous sea with Rand Paul. At least he knows what real freedoms are. Most everyone else in Congress seems to have completely forgotten.
Alito’s “history” on abortion was indeed highly “cherry picked” Abortion practices were widely occurring/allowed/promoted during the Constitution’s creation…and afterward. Ben Frank even included a Rx formula in this mathematics book.
The history of abortion methods and practice are interesting but irrelevant. The sole issue is whether the US Constitution gives the federal gov’t the power to deny the wishes of state gov’ts. The authors of the constitution allowed for change by AMENDMENT; not violence. But the left has ever been violent. If things don’t go their way their answer has been the same, violence.
Alito thought his historical fiction very important as he cited such heavily.
These so called “originalist” Justices sure drift away to meet their religious dogmas!
Interesting that 6 Protestants and a Catholic sure moved away from their “religous dogmas” to create the decision. To quote the Lutheran dissenter:
“The Court simply fashions and announces a new constitutional right for pregnant women and, with scarcely any reason or authority for its action, invests that right with sufficient substance to override most existing state abortion statutes. The upshot is that the people and the legislatures of the 50 States are constitutionally disentitled to weigh the relative importance of the continued existence and development of the fetus, on the one hand, against a spectrum of possible impacts on the woman, on the other hand. As an exercise of raw judicial power, the Court perhaps has authority to do what it does today; but, in my view, its judgment is an improvident and extravagant exercise of the power of judicial review that the Constitution extends to this Court.”
The matter is now back before the states. I’m sure if you work hard you can make the “emerging Democratic majority” a reality by a landslide this November.
The ever curious Sailor has an interesting take on the matter.
Ahh, BH, You musta forgot about all the killings, assualts, property damage by your lockstep right wingers.
Here is a bit, not all:
In the United States, violence directed towards abortion providers has killed at least eleven people, including four doctors, two clinic employees, a security guard, a police officer, two people (unclear of their connection), and a clinic escort.[I 16][I 17] Seven murders occurred in the 1990s.[I 18]
March 10, 1993: Gynaecologist David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn’s murder and was sentenced to life in prison.[I 19]
July 29, 1994: John Britton, a physician, and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before in 1984 and was also bombed subsequently in 2012.[I 20]
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.[I 20]
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Rudolph admitted responsibility; he was also charged with three Atlanta bombings: the 1997 bombing of an abortion center, the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, and another of a lesbian nightclub. He was found guilty of the crimes and received two life sentences as a result.[I 21]
October 23, 1998: Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York. His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian’s murder after being apprehended in France in 2001.[I 22]
May 31, 2009: George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at a church in Wichita, Kansas.[I 23] This was not Tiller’s first time being a victim to anti-abortion violence. Tiller was shot once before in 1993 by Shelley Shannon, who was sentenced 10 years in prison for the shooting.
November 27, 2015: A shooting at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Colorado Springs, Colorado, left three dead and several injured, and a suspect Robert L. Dear was apprehended.[I 24][I 25][I 26] The suspect had previously acted against other clinics, and referred to himself as a “warrior for the babies” at his hearing.[I 27][I 28] Neighbors and former neighbors described the suspect as “reclusive”,[I 25] and police from several states where the suspect resided described a history of run-ins dating from at least 1997.[I 26] As of December 2015, the trial of the suspect was open;[I 27] but, on May 11, 2016, the court declared the suspect incompetent to stand trial after a mental evaluation was completed.[I 29]
Then there were these right wingers doing harm:
August 1982: Three men identifying as the Army of God kidnapped Hector Zevallos (a doctor and clinic owner) and his wife, Rosalee Jean, holding them for eight days.
June 15, 1984: A month after he destroyed suction equipment at a Birmingham clinic, Edward Markley, a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan “Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities”.[I 34][I 35] (and perhaps an accomplice), entered the Women’s Community Health Center in Huntsville, Alabama, assaulting at least three clinic workers. Kathryn Wood, one of the workers, received back injuries and a broken neck vertebrae while preventing Markley from splashing red paint on the clinic’s equipment. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief, one count of third-degree assault, and one count of harassment in the Huntsville attack.
August 19, 1993: George Tiller was shot outside of an abortion facility in Wichita, Kansas. Shelley Shannon was convicted of the crime and received an 11-year prison sentence (20 years were later added for arson and acid attacks on clinics).
July 29, 1994: June Barrett was shot in the same attack which claimed the lives of James Barrett, her husband, and John Britton.
December 30, 1994: Five individuals were wounded in the shootings which killed Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols.
December 18, 1996: Calvin Jackson, a medical doctor of New Orleans, Louisiana was stabbed 15 times, losing 4 pints of blood. Donald Cooper was charged with second degree attempted murder and was sentenced to 20 years. “Donald Cooper’s Day of Violence”, by Kara Lowentheil, Choice! Magazine, December 21, 2004.
October 28, 1997: David Gandell, a medical doctor of Rochester, New York sustained serious injuries after being targeted by a sniper firing through a window in his home.[I 36]
January 29, 1998: Emily Lyons, a nurse, was severely injured, and lost an eye, in the bombing which also killed off-duty police officer Robert Sanderson.
You want more? Here!
February 23, 1977: A clinic in Saint Paul, Minnesota was set on fire. The fire caused $250,000 in damages and forced the suspension of abortion services for six months.[I 39]
May 1977: A clinic in Burlington, Vermont was destroyed by a fire, resulting in its closure for seven months.[I 39]
August 1977: Four bottles of gasoline were thrown through a clinic in Omaha, Nebraska, destroying 75 percent of it.[I 39]
November 1977: A man broke into a medical building in Cincinnati and set a crib on fire. A Planned Parenthood was located in the building, but no abortions were provided there. The same month, a firebomb was thrown at a clinic and a chemical bomb was thrown at a seperate clinic in seperate incidents.[I 39]
January 8, 1978: A suspected arson caused $200,000 in damages at a clinic in Columbus, Ohio.[I 39]
February 19, 1978: A man posing as a delivery man splashed gasoline in a technican’s face before setting a clinic on fire in Cleveland, Ohio. Everyone inside the clinic escaped.[I 39]
May 26, 1983: Joseph Grace set the Hillcrest clinic in Norfolk, Virginia ablaze. He was arrested while sleeping in his van a few blocks from the clinic when a patrol officer noticed the smell of kerosene.[I 40]
May 12, 1984: Two men entered a Birmingham, Alabama clinic on Mother’s Day weekend shortly after a lone woman opened the doors at 7:25 A.M. Forcing their way into the clinic, one of the men threatened the woman if she tried to prevent the attack while the other, wielding a sledgehammer, did between $7,500 and $8,500 of damage to suction equipment. The man who damaged the equipment was later identified as Edward Markley. Markley is a Benedictine priest who was the Birmingham diocesan “Coordinator for Pro-Life Activities”. Markley was convicted of first-degree criminal mischief and second-degree burglary. His accomplice has never been identified. The following month (near Father’s Day), Markley entered a women’s health center in Huntsville, Alabama (see above).[I 35]
July 7, 1984: A bomb detonated at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Annapolis, Maryland. Two people were inside but neither were injured.[I 41]
December 25, 1984: An abortion clinic and two physicians’ offices in Pensacola, Florida, were bombed in the early morning of Christmas Day by a quartet of young people (Matt Goldsby, Jimmy Simmons, Kathy Simmons, Kaye Wiggins) who later called the bombings “a gift to Jesus on his birthday.”[I 42][I 43][I 44] The clinic, the Ladies Center, would later be the site of the murder of John Britton and James Barrett in 1994 and a firebombing in 2012.
December 30, 1985: John A. Brockhoeft firebombed an abortion clinic in Cincinnati. Brockenhoeft later planned to bomb an abortion clinic in Florida.
March 26, 1986: Six anti-abortion activists, including John Burt and Joan Andrews, were arrested after invading an abortion clinic in Pensacola, Florida, causing property damage and injuring two women (a clinic manager and a member of the local NOW chapter). Burt was convicted of attempted burglary of an occupied building, assault, battery, and resisting arrest without violence, and was sentenced to 141 days already served in jail and four years of probation; his 18-year-old daughter, Sarah Burt, who also took part in the invasion, was sentenced to 15 days in jail (with credit for two days already served) and three years of probation. Andrews refused to pledge not to carry out such actions in the future and was convicted of burglary, criminal mischief and resisting arrest without violence. She was sentenced to five years in prison, which she spent largely in self-imposed isolation, refusing a mattress and all medical care.
July 27, 1987: Eight members of the Bible Missionary Fellowship, a fundamentalist church in Santee, California, attempted to bomb the Alvarado Medical Center abortion clinic. Church member Cheryl Sullenger procured gunpowder, bomb materials, and a disguise for co-conspirator Eric Everett Svelmoe, who planted a gasoline bomb. It was placed at the premises but failed to detonate as the fuse was blown out by wind.
July 3, 1989: A fire was started at the Feminist Health Center clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, on the day U.S. Supreme Court upheld a Missouri law banning funding of public facilities as related to abortion. The clinic was set afire again in 2000.[I 45]
March 29, 1993: Blue Mountain Clinic in Missoula, Montana; at around 1 a.m., an arsonist snuck onto the premises and firebombed the clinic. The perpetrator, a Washington man, was ultimately caught, convicted and imprisoned. The facility was a near-total loss, but all of the patients’ records, though damaged, survived the fire in metal file cabinets.[I 46][I 47][I 48][I 45]
January 1997: Eric Rudolph admitted, as part of a plea deal for the Centennial Olympic Park bombing at the 1996 Olympic Games to placing a pair of bombs that exploded at the Northside Family Planning Services clinic in the Atlanta suburb of Sandy Springs.[I 21]
May 21, 1998: Three people were injured when acid was poured at the entrances of five abortion clinics in Miami, Florida.[I 49]
March 13, 1999: A bomb caused minor damage at an Asheville, North Carolina clinic.
October 1999: Martin Uphoff set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Sioux Falls, South Dakota causing minimal damage. He was later sentenced to 60 months in prison.
May 28, 2000: An arson at a clinic in Concord, New Hampshire, resulted in several thousand dollars’ worth of damage. The case remains unsolved.[I 50][I 51][I 52] This was the second arson at the clinic.[I 45]
September 30, 2000: John Earl, a Catholic priest, drove his car into the Northern Illinois Health Clinic in Rockford, Illinois after learning that the FDA had approved the drug RU-486. He pulled out an axe before being forced to the ground by the owner of the building, who fired two warning shots from a shotgun.[I 53]
June 11, 2001: An unsolved bombing at a clinic in Tacoma, Washington, destroyed a wall, resulting in $6,000 in damages.[I 54]
January 9, 2005: Eastside Women’s Clinic in Olympia, Washington sustained $500,000 damage in an arson.[I 55]
July 4, 2005: A clinic in West Palm Beach, Florida, was the target of an probable arson.
December 12, 2005: Patricia Hughes and Jeremy Dunahoe threw a Molotov cocktail at a clinic in Shreveport, Louisiana. The device missed the building and no damage was caused. In August 2006, Hughes was sentenced to six years in prison, and Dunahoe to one year. Hughes claimed the bomb was a “memorial lamp” for an abortion she had had there.[I 56]
September 11, 2006: David McMenemy of Rochester Hills, Michigan, crashed his car into the Edgerton Women’s Care Center in Davenport, Iowa. He then doused the lobby in gasoline and started a fire. McMenemy committed these acts in the belief that the center was performing abortions; however, Edgerton is not an abortion clinic.[I 57] Time magazine listed the incident in a “Top 10 Inept Terrorist Plots” list.[I 58]
April 25, 2007: A package left at a women’s health clinic in Austin, Texas, contained an explosive device capable of inflicting serious injury or death. A bomb squad detonated the device after evacuating the building. Paul Ross Evans (who had a criminal record for armed robbery and theft) was found guilty of the crime.[I 59]
May 9, 2007: An unidentified person deliberately set fire to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Virginia Beach, Virginia.[I 60]
December 6, 2007: Chad Altman and Sergio Baca were arrested for the arson of Curtis Boyd’s clinic in Albuquerque. Baca’s girlfriend had scheduled an appointment for an abortion at the clinic.[I 61][I 62]
January 22, 2009: Matthew L. Derosia, 32, who was reported to have had a history of mental illness,[I 63] rammed an SUV into the front entrance of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Saint Paul, Minnesota,[I 64] causing between $2,500 and $5,000 in damage. Derosia, who told police that Jesus told him to “stop the murderers,” was ruled competent to stand trial. He pleaded guilty in March 2009 to one count of criminal damage to property.
August 29, 2009: Two days after a nearby anti-abortion protest, an unknown arsonist threw a molotov cocktail at a Planned Parenthood in Lincoln, Nebraska. The bomb fell short of the building, leaving no property damage or casualties.
January 1, 2012: Bobby Joe Rogers, 41, firebombed the American Family Planning Clinic in Pensacola, Florida, with a Molotov cocktail; the fire gutted the building. Rogers told investigators that he was motivated to commit the crime by his opposition to abortion, and that what more directly prompted the act was seeing a patient enter the clinic during one of the frequent anti-abortion protests there. The clinic had previously been bombed at Christmas in 1984 and was the site of the murder of John Britton and James Barrett in 1994.[I 65]
April 1, 2012: A bomb exploded on the windowsill of a Planned Parenthood clinic in Grand Chute, Wisconsin, resulting in a fire that caused minimal damage.
April 11, 2013: Benjamin David Curell, 27, caused extensive damage to a Planned Parenthood clinic in Bloomington, Indiana, vandalizing it with an axe.[I 66] Curell was convicted in state court of felony burglary, and pleaded guilty in federal court to one count of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act. In the federal case, he was sentenced to three years of probation and ordered to pay restitution.
October 3-4, 2013: 32-year-old Jebediah Stout attempted to set a Planned Parenthood clinic in Joplin, Missouri on fire two days in a row. Stout previously set a fire at a Joplin mosque.
September 4, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Pullman, Washington was intentionally set on fire. No injuries were reported due to the time of day, but the FBI was involved because of a history of domestic terrorism against the clinic.[I 67] The crime was never solved. The clinic reopened six months later.
October 22, 2015: A Planned Parenthood clinic in Claremont, New Hampshire was vandalized by a juvenile intruder. Damaged in the attack were computers, furniture, plumbing fixtures, office equipment, medical equipment, phone lines, windows, and walls. The flooding that resulted from the vandalism also damaged an adjacent business.[I 68][I 69]
February 24–25, 2016: Travis Reynolds, 21, vandalized a Baltimore-area women’s health care clinic with anti-abortion graffiti. After being arrested, Reynolds “admitted to police that he defaced the clinic’s doors, walls and windows because he thought that it would deter women from using the clinic.” Reynolds pleaded guilty in federal court to one count of violating the Freedom of Access to Clinic Entrances Act in October 2016.
March 7, 2016: Rachel Ann Jackson, 71, vandalized a Planned Parenthood clinic in Columbus, Ohio, with the message “SATAN DEN OF BABY KILLERS…” She pleaded guilty to felony counts of breaking and entering and vandalism and a misdemeanor count of aggravated trespass. Jackson was sentenced to probation, with the judge citing her struggle with serious mental illness as a mitigating factor.
February 10, 2019: Wesley Brian Kaster, 43, threw a Molotov cocktail at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Columbia, Missouri. Kaster admitted to setting the fire because Planned Parenthood provided abortions, although Planned Parenthood stated that the clinic was not providing abortions at the time due to a state law. Kaster was sentenced to five years in prison.
January 3, 2020: A high school student, Samuel Gulick, spray-painted “Deus Vult” on a clinic in Newark, Delaware before throwing a Molotov Cocktail at the front window. Gulick was sentenced to 26 months in prison by a federal judge.
October 10, 2020: A man threw multiple Molotovs at a Planned Parenthood clinic in Fort Myers, Florida.
January 23, 2021: An unknown individual fired a shotgun at a Tennessee Planned Parenthood clinic; no one was injured. News outlets noted that the attack took place on the anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision and at a time when Tennessee’s governor, Bill Lee, was involved in a heated online debate regarding abortion and health care.
December 31, 2021: On New Year’s Eve, a fire destroyed a Planned Parenthood in Knoxville, Tennessee. The building was closed at the time for renovations. The Knoxville Fire Department and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives ruled the fire arson. The clinic had previously been shot at in January of the same year.
May 25, 2022: A masked woman set a fire at a planned
Jussie Smollet calls wishing me to express his estimation that “This comment is the best that’s ever appeared here!”
You familiar Al with Anna Navarro?
“at least eleven people”
That’s about equal to a week in Chicago.
I’m glad the Supreme Court justices had the guts to make a decision and stand behind it.
Abortion is a very complex question, there is no hollywood/woke style right/wrong answer. That goes for every country in the world and every woman in the universe.
Yeah it was a great trip to Southern California.
We checked out Disneyland and the rest of the tourist stuff, and had the baby aborted to boot.
“Al” up above at 12:39, seems to me has an “unusual take” on the History of the matter to wit:
“Alito’s “history” on abortion was indeed highly “cherry picked” Abortion practices were widely occurring/allowed/promoted during the Constitution’s creation…and afterward. Ben Frank even included a Rx formula in this mathematics book.”
((Eh .. get the allusion “cherry picked”?))
But for the real History of the matter Nothing comes close to what Attorney Robert Barnes has to say on the matter – Yes I realize my previously linking this on an earlier thread but, from [about] the 14th minute of the discussion to [about] the 55 minute mark, I would contend, there’s no better argument/presentation of “the facts” than’s to be heard hereon! Although I would also caution that it’d be best to listen [and absorb] via headphones – the possibility of “chilluns running around” you understand?
And then, given there’s “much ado” about how the USSC has, depending on viewpoint, either “totally destroyed privacy” or perhaps “restored faith in the Republic” – depending I suppose on whether one accepts Politico’s Papal-like Pronouncements there’s this version of Galileo:
Seems to me in all ‘the mysteries’ emanating so recently from “that structure” there’s aplenty of ‘wonders to behold’ – Of course it must be admitted too ‘There are those who refuse to see.’
California’s view I’m positing being obscured by the Sierra.
Alito quoted 17th century witch hunter and bible-thumping wackjob Sir Matthew Hale nine times in both his draft opinion and the final opinion. That’s not a passing reference. It’s a fixation. It’s hero worship. Not only did Hale execute witches, he didn’t believe in rape, especially marital rape. But at least he didn’t believe abortion should be permitted.
So, where are the 5 “originalist” Justices on this?
Abortion was once common practice in America.
Abortion in American History –
When abortion wasn’t a legal issue –
The Different Histories of Abortion in Europe and the United States –
Answer, hiding behind fictionalized history!
It’s been a whole work day for Congress and still no constitutional amendment language proposed. What’s holding up AOC and the Squad? Put “Birth is not a human right, Abortion is!” into the language of the Constitution. Pass the proposal and have the states ratify it.
The House already passed a bill to protect abortion access in H.R.3755 – Women’s Health Protection Act of 2021. It’s not going to get through the Senate.
I’m shocked to hear that a bill mentioning abortion 126 times isn’t going to clear the Senate, which the Democrats control. Abortion as interstate commerce which has to be protected under the commerce clause and equal protection clause of the 14th amendment? Great stuff. Landslide election material there. Democrats in every congressional district should run on those principles. Especially the last one, where this ‘law’ supercedes all the articles and amendments in the constitution:
Did you bother to read it? Change the constitution with an amendment and get the states to ratify it. Good luck.
TTG, Obviously in Fred’s reply to you, he is ignorant of how the REPUBS block legislation on the Senate.
No, I’m sure Fred is well aware of that. He just approves of it.
Like the latest gun control legislation whose language was amended onto a bill to rename a post office? Let me just say to you and Al: Good luck with the senate version of HR 3755. I’m sure the same 14 Republicans will be happy to be persuaded to pass the bill. In the meantime try going state by state for your pro-abortion legislation.
You may’ve, may not have seen me write here before “My Dad was an MD”? [Class of ’58 UAMS]
At any rate when I was a wee lad of about eight maybe nine I remember a ‘woeful conversation’ Dad and Mom had concerning his ‘filling in for a vacationing MD’ at some bigger hospital than was his usual practice Dad was decrying the bigger hospital’s frequently performing what were then called “D&Cs” – now this woulda been early, maybe mid-60s.
It was only later when I was attending my very first college biology class – forget how the subject came up but anyway the biology prof as I best recollect said something like – mind, I really wasn’t paying close attention and only later recalled that ‘woeful conversation’ and still later did the ol’ 2 + 2 – but anyway as close as I can put together what the prof said as something like:
“We’ve actually had abortions going on quite awhile – they [docs’midwives?] didn’t actually call ’em that; what the procedure was earlier was to referred to as a D&C.” The prof going on to a description of the procedure which, again from memory was “scraping the uterus.”
All that Al to say as I’ll allow you the point. Still, to my Dad’s mind then and to my mind now, calling the one thing another still don’t make it a rose, so to speak.
Actually Al, had to look it up for myself just now – don’t recall any of my MD buddies refer to the procedure so for that [and other reasons] – why for instance D&C “could be” a euphemism for something else
(I draw no conclusions : I’ll have to “think some” on why maybe my Dad seemed so distasteful toward the procedure – possibly “the [apparent high] frequency”? Does appear to me though the procedure is well indicated for something other than what my long ago biology prof said was so.)
Al: from just two of your citations; Midwives were yanking fetuses out of uteri in the 19th century! Almost HALF of ALL American women have terminated at least one pregnancy! Talk about propaganda. For the second statement to be true one of every two women I know would have had to undergo an abortion procedure. Drawing from the small sample size of my own family which includes 14 females only 1 has had an abortion. So my anecdotal evidence destroys your referenced pro-child sacrificing lib narrative.
“Al” you’ll be noticing Mr. Turner isn’t signing into the ‘Reply’ bit as “Alicia” or somesuch.
I’ve spent the whole day researching who’s “pro-choice” and who ain’t – Now mind Mr. Turner I’ve only mere hours to “distinguish” but the [available & true] data appears to indicate > ‘Pro-Choice’ males weight heavier than ‘Pro-Choice’ females.
(I for one find that result extremely oh ‘weird/unexpected’ I suppose [Perhaps it’s a ‘child-support issue[?] I haven’t yet the time to parse it out and the ‘Parties’ I expected to have readily available data “seem reticent” so, looks like, I’ve got myself another ongoing project.
But “something seems strange” and all I got is whatever time is left to me.)
God willing I may re-visit this.
(Apologies to all the atheists here for my heresy.)
government’s faith-based moralism will be the death of individual human rights, defining women as state-operated reproduction units. as if THAT’s the answer to The Great Replacement.
my impression is that most of you do not hang out in the deep south w/ theocrats. ideology trumps reason – by a country mile.
If women want to get an abortion, an extreme act in an era marked by a plethora of contraceptives, not to mention the ‘morning after’ pill. Then let them go get a safe medical procedure that they pay for themselves. Stop ALL Federal funding of ‘women’s healthcare’! All that means is we are paying for Po ho’s abortions. Don’t give me that horse hockey about how they can’t afford it! Po ho’s be walking around with $1400 smart phones. My dad used to say; “you can’t buy candy if the store is closed.” I can’t even begin to calculate the money I’ve spent on condoms.
Ann Coulter runs the numbers – most “abortions” already take place in blue states, so only a few out of the total numbers each year will be affected in red states who will be re-writing their own laws.
She also raised the excellent point, should we really be complaining when blue states decide want to permanently cancel more of their own? (Gallows laugh)
Deap & All,
I don’t know nuthin about the numbers blue v red but I just became aware Arkansas, a very red state had “a trigger law” in place. But to the numbers I noted a sentence:
“According to the state Department of Health, there were 3,133 abortions in Arkansas in 2021, compared with 4,033 in 2011 and 5,924 in 2001.”