“In outcome of Whitmer case, some see freedom, others danger” – TTG

FILE – This photo combo shows from top left, Kaleb Franks, Brandon Caserta, Adam Dean Fox, and bottom left, Daniel Harris, Barry Croft, and Ty Garbin. A federal grand jury has charged six men with conspiring to kidnap Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer in what investigators say was a plot by anti-government extremists angry over her policies to prevent spread of the coronavirus. An indictment released Thursday, Dec. 17, 2020, by U.S. Attorney Andrew Birge levied the charge against Adam Dean Fox, Barry Gordon Croft Jr., Ty Gerard Garbin, Kaleb James Franks, Daniel Joseph Harris and Brandon Michael-Ray Caserta. (Kent County Sheriff via AP File)

Outside the Michigan courthouse where a jury did not convict any of the four men charged with planning to kidnap Gov. Gretchen Whitmer, a defense lawyer said jurors saw the alleged plot as what it was: Dirty FBI tactics and “rough talk.”

The men — who were heard on audio during the trial talking about killing Whitmer, blowing up a bridge and other violence — didn’t say anything shocking, attorney Michael Hills said. He noted one of the defense witnesses he considered calling to testify planned to assert that he’s “heard worse from pregnant mothers up on the Capitol.”

“If I don’t like the governor and it’s rough talk, I can do that in our country. That’s what’s beautiful about this country. That’s what’s great about it,” Hills said. “So hurrah, freedom in America. It’s still here.”

But to others, Friday’s outcome following a weekslong trial was a chilling reminder that the political violence that is raging across the U.S. too often goes unpunished. From attacks on social media and elsewhere that disproportionately affect women lawmakers, to the Jan. 6 insurrection at the U.S. Capitol and the plan to abduct Whitmer, people are increasingly angry and feeling emboldened to act on it, they say.


Comment: I see freedom. I also see serious over reach and unethical behavior by the FBI. Entrapment should not be tolerated. The Feds and cops up and down the line are often far too eager to incite a bunch of shit talking losers into something indictable and convictable. How many drug cases and terrorist cases are built upon some undercover agent actively convincing some sad sack to go beyond the shit talking stage?

Damned near everybody shit talks. I shit talk. SWMBO shit talks. My younger son shit talks. My older son is too serious and quiet to shit talk, but he’ll smile at our shit talk. He’s the exception. But we’re mindful of who’s listening. And we can’t be convinced by some slick talking undercover agent to turn our shit talk into action. We know better. Some people don’t know better and are far too easy to manipulate. Instead of manipulating these people into doing something they don’t intend to do or simply can’t do without guidance and assistance from undercover agents and informants, why not simply leave them alone or have some large, musclebound G-man advise them not to take this kind of talk past the talking stage… or else. That, in itself, may be unethical or even illegal, but it’s far better than manipulating losers into criminal behavior.


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13 Responses to “In outcome of Whitmer case, some see freedom, others danger” – TTG

  1. Bill Roche says:

    There is a reason the DOIJ and the FIB are known as such. They’ve earned it. IMO they have become an American NKGB. Never speak w/them w/o council. Understand they are not your friend and not America’s friend. Frightening. More importantly is “shit talk” yet another technical term I don’t know. I’ll never catch up!

    • TTG says:

      Bill Roche,

      Some say trash talking, selling wolf tickets, smack talking or making idle threats. I’m sure there’s other terms in use. I grew up with shit talking.

    • longarch says:

      There is a reason the DOIJ and the FIB are known as such.

      I know that “fib” means “falsehood” but “doij” seems to be British slang for a drunkard. Am I missing a slang reference?

  2. Fred says:

    “We know better.”

    So did all those executives on the board of Theranos. Everybody can be scammed. You should listen to the legal ‘expert’ from NBC at the end of this clip. Apparently she’s unable to comprehend that a juror “holdout” (her unsubstantiated theory) might be the only one willing to convict, rather than the way she sees it. “Declines to convict” still means “presumed innocent” , except for the expert and the audience she is speaking to.

  3. It was being monetized. Apparently one of the G-men was running it through his own security company.

  4. Whitewall says:

    Somebody famous is reported to have said:
    “When government fears the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny.”

    We may be hip deep in that as a country now.

  5. Sam says:

    Laptop Class (noun): Western upper-middle-class professionals who work through a screen and are totally abstracted from tangible physical reality and the real-world consequences of their opinions and beliefs. Synonyms: Professional-Managerial Class; Orwell’s “outer party”.


    Founder of Netscape the first commercial scale web browser and top Silicon Valley venture capitalist Marc Andreesen.

    The coalesced ruling elite of the oligarchs, the national security apparatus, political leadership of both parties, the media apparatus and the laptop class have their hands firmly on all levers of power. The increasing impunity with which they execute their agenda du jour, includes framing folks as we saw in this case and other cases like the Russia Collusion hoax. Here these folks got lucky that a jury made an independent decision despite the judge attempting to stack the case.

    There are many institutions like the FBI and the Fed that need to abolished as it will be impossible to reform when corruption has become so deep rooted and endemic and instead new organizations stood up from scratch to focus on their core mission activities.

  6. Degringolade says:


    “My younger son shit talks. My older son is too serious and quiet to shit talk, but he’ll smile at our shit talk. He’s the exception.”

    Made me laugh out loud. Apparently you have the same family as I do.

    Re: “Laptop Class” I have always preferred “Smug Class” or “Sneering Class”.

  7. Seamus Padraig says:

    I agree. I think that whole Whitmer ‘plot’ was just another Fedsurrection. While we weren’t looking, the FBI just morphed into the KGB.

    • TTG says:

      Seamus Padraig,

      Hardly the KGB, but the FBI and damned near every police agency and department seem far to comfortable with the use of entrapment as a legitimate tool of police work. The same goes for deliberately lying to a suspect in order to obtain information or confession.It’s just not right, at least against US citizens or USPs. In foreign intelligence work and war, there’s a lot more leeway for that kind of stuff.

  8. powderfinger1@tutanota.com says:

    Next time you go to a local gun show or similar event, look around very carefully. A higher percentage of people than you want to believe are there from various levels of law enforcement. Not every vendor is there specifically to sell guns. Be VERY careful who you “talk sh!t” to. Even if it is joking and going along with someone else started. When played back to a grand jury it wont sound like joking.

  9. Babeltuap says:

    FBI are gangsters at the top of the apex of gangsters. They don’t care and why should they.

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