A balance sheet can not be used to decide Scottish Independence. The most important things in our life have no scientific measure or monetary value. Pride, patriotism, Freedom, love, loyalty, trust, feeling, friendship, joy, peace, If you prefer to be a pampered poodle instead of a proud crowing cock you are not fit to vote real Scots into English control. Eyes must be raised from the trough to a National identity and destiny. Being born in Scotland does not make you a proud true Scot. It is choice of loyalty not accident of birth. Do you have a passionate desire for Scottish independence ? Are you a Scot ?. Same answer. When Scots see their National Flag fly around the world they will never give it back. What value Pride? What price a Scottish soul. Good Proud Englishmen would die for ENGLAND. Scots have the same love for SCOTLAND. If England thinks they can be stronger with Scotland behind them then how much stronger will they be as free nations standing shoulder to shoulder as free people. The media are largely anti Scottish independence. The English are experienced, manipulative, colonisers. They have been on the case for a long time, know all the tricks, and it would be amazing if they had not succeeded. They will threaten, ridicule, divide, separate, control the media, and dangerously flatter. If Scottish spirit is buried it will be buried alive. Artists, Poets, thinkers, Leaders and people like Alex Salmond and brave people will think the unthinkable with renewed vigour. Seeds must be sown and nourished. Only a few patriots are needed to keep the flame alive. Treat them well for they hold your dreams. Hopefully the Scots have not been fully, shamefully, pacified and domesticated There are unconquered Scots with an unbreakable strength, gallant courage, unshakable purpose as belonged to Wallace and his MEN. The seed of freedom again ripen in young mens hearts . People in Scotland are overwhelmingly against trident and the only way to get rid of it is Scottish independence. North Sea oil production is going into a period of decline but with care and new technology Scotland, with one tenth the needs of the UK, will with absolute certainty remain an oil exporter for decades to come. Redraw the territorial line horizontally from Scotland to include the Oil/Gas in Scotland. If England exits the EU, staying in would be a good strategy for Scotland. The fear of Masonic, Protestant, Scottish Nationalist control could drive many minorities to feel safer in Governance with outside control. The compromise necessary will have to be a comfortable, better, place for ¾ million Catholics and Muslims, Colonists, Immigrants, Fearful people, and to remove the racism and bigotery that is there. You totally misunderstand Scottish patriotism. It is not about hatred of England. There is very much to admire about them. Just step back and look. The more you step back the better they look. Step back 300 miles (London to Edinburgh) and roll back 300 years of assimilation and they look perfect. John Stack
First Scotland, then Ireland.
A bracing piece of manly thinking.
“When Scots see their National Flag fly around the world they will never give it back”
Of course St. Andrew’s flag flies in the South. The colors may be different, but it is the core of the Confederate Battle Flag.
As an aside, the Latin-derived “Scot” at first was used to describe the Irish raiders of Roman Britain, then applied to Gaels, and then to the Northern part of Great Britain. Irish and Scots were historically the same race until divided by religion.
“The name of Scotland is derived from the Greek Scotos, the term applied to Gaels. The word Scoti (or Scotti) means dark because of the mist.[citation needed] It is found in Latin texts from the fourth century describing a tribe which sailed from Ireland to raid Roman Britain.[3] It came to be applied to all the Gaels. It is not believed that any Gaelic groups called themselves Scoti in ancient times, except when writing in Latin.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etymology_of_Scotland
“If you prefer to be a pampered poodle instead of a proud crowing cock you are not fit to vote real Scots into English control.”
I’ve never met a cockerel who could measure up to a standard poodle. They’re a fine noble dog. Useful and clever. Though I admit I would prefer a Scottish Deerhound if given the choice.
The noted Pampered Poodle Fitzroy Maclean was a Unionist, whereas, as you say, Alex Salmond is a proud crowing cock.
You make a very good point.
As an English-born American, let me state categorically, “Good riddance.”
England will be richer and easier to govern without the other Kingdoms, save Wales.
WOW! Time Scots stopped renting cheap their bravery to the English and brains.
All:
I must say that reading the comments on Scottish independence leads me to conclude that are a lot of people in the Anglo-sphere that have completely taken leave of their senses.
I mean, why stop there, by all means, let us make Wales and the Isle of Man independent states as well, and I am sure that the Chavs would love to see a Free Liverpool.
All,
“If you prefer to be a pampered poodle instead of a proud crowing cock you are not fit to vote real Scots into English control.”
Like very many people in London — probably almost all of us, to be frank — I have not had strong views about Scottish independence. If the Scots want to stay, that’s fine by us, if they want to go, that’s also fine. My wife, who is a Londoner through and through, unlike me, gets sporadic bouts of impatience, and says: why can’t we be rid of them? but nobody I know has strong feelings.
(Of course, being a Londoner through and through means that you are probably not ethnically English, but that is not the kind of matter I could expect to explain to an American audience.)
By the same token, however, I have always thought that this was a matter on which Scots could, quite rationally, disagree.
If it is actually the case that, confronted by a Scottish unionist, all a Scottish nationalist can do is sneer at him or her as a ‘pampered poodle’, then the conclusion seems inescapable: these people are just one more set of ethno-nationalist scum: like the Likudniks, or the ‘Praviy Sekor’ types.
Babak! Its a reaction to a globalized world ruled by bites and bytes IMO! And the banksters!
The scottish people have been used as experimental lab rats by successive right wing conservative governments they did not elect or vote for (fifty odd MPs represent Scotland, at one point only one was a conservative, but Scotland still found itself run by a conservative government)
From Thatcher onwards,economic and social experiments inspired by the Neo Liberals of the Chicago school were always applied first in Scotland.
Scotland lost industry after industry, coal, steel, ship building. Mass unemployment, rising crime and drug problems, debt and poverty followed.
There are some small nations that are extremely successful in Europe.
I doubt that Scotland will be one, located as it is, right out on the fringe of Europe and it’s natural assets sqaundered, or sold off long ago by an uncaring, London government which itself was largely subservient to the demands of international bankers, not it’s own people.
I’m part Scottish myself, were Scotland to seperate I would be saddened but would understand. I think Its future would be gloomy,but in all honesty, removing itself from rule by the succession of shabby, greedy, gutless, servile, lying governments the rest of the UK has been saddled with for decades may be the best thing for it.
DaveGood
David H! Unfortunately England is London which like the Caymen Islands is largely the home for international flight capital often stolen from others. Banksters and gangsters rule as well as the Royals all sucking dry the others.
“The seed of freedom again ripen in young mens hearts . ”
Isn’t that the same line we’ve heard in Cairo and now Kiev?
Reading that, the only word that came to mind was, “Bullshit!”.
I find Scottish Nationalists to be driven by self-loathing and bigotry. They think that divorcing themselves from England will solve their perceptions of diminished importance. They seriously dream of some ethnically pure homeland yet are faced with a reality of decades of immigration? What place in this pathetic state of two lowland cities for those of Indian, Bangladeshi, African, Caribbean descent?
And those people in the islands, Orkney, Shetland, the Hebrides, they want no part of this foolishness. They see people such as Alex Salmond and Edinburgh as no less distant than rule from London. Shetland is closer to Norway after all. Perhaps they should seek union with Oslo and take “their” North Sea oil with them.
The Scots had their own nation, I am not sure I have ever heard of the “Republic of Free Scousers” in Liverpool. The Scots have as much of a right to determine their own future and have their own country as anyone else does. They have their own history and their own language. The English did their best to steal all of it, but it is still there. Scotland, then the north of Ireland next. It is poetic justice. All of the places the English invaded and dominated are finding their way forward, as England itself is now full of peoples it once colonlized and these people are forever changing the nature of English society.
That’s some lovely, first quality romantic claptrap, if I’ve ever heard any. It strikes me that some people are resentful that they didn’t grow up in a different time and place, so they could be Fenians.
I think everyone understands that the Scots have pride, and tradition and love for their land, and want the ability to live as they choose. I just don’t see how they will be able to have the quality of life they think they deserve, without the benefits of future association with England.
Scotland just doesn’t have that many viable industries which can provide reliable employment and export income. The English aren’t going to hand over the North Sea oil fields and cancel BP’s contracts. The Energy Minister just said that England will buy cheaper electricity from Europe and Ireland, and doesn’t need any from the Scots. The English can also establish tight border controls, reducing tourism and hampering investment and trade. That leaves Scotland with some shipping, timber, fisheries, whiskey, salmon, sheep, grouse and golf. Perhaps they could boost their financial industry, and become another Luxembourg, but England already has tax haven islands. England may also choose to saddle Scotland with the enormous debts of RBS.
Scotland has many legitimate, current grievances with England, and they deserve more scope and autonomy, particularly to manage their economy and social programs as they see fit. And it’s in England’s interest to help them do this. Westminster needs to be much less London-centric. This is a clear situation where the whole is worth more than the sum of its parts.
A very important point that is being glossed over in this discussion:
“There are two correct ways to spell it: Whisky and Whiskey. Whiskey refers to whiskeys distilled in Ireland and the United States. Whisky, on the other hand, is generally used for whiskies distilled in Scotland, Wales, Canada, Japan and other countries.”
All ultimately from the Latin “aqua Vitae”- living water. The source of wodka, vodka, whisky, whiskey.
To enlarge upon this most important point, the etymology is interesting (well, to linguists). ‘Whiskey’ and ‘vodka’ look nothing like ‘aqua vitae,’ but they are derived from it. Aqua vitae was a medieval distilled spirit, the father or mother of all booze. It actually means ‘water of life,’ though every online authority seems to want to make it more complicated than that. Whiskey is derived from a Gaelic translation of that term: ‘uisge beatha.’ ‘Vodka’ takes it one step further. It also contains the root for ‘water,’ but uses the diminutive form of it, ‘little water.’
My cousins in the Highlands and Inner Islands think the idea is a screwy idea of the lowland elites, and the cousins are by and large not for independence. But the question will be decided by the lowlanders of Edinburgh and Glasgow, where the vast majority of the population resides.
My personal view is for a gloomy outcome also. But the Scots have always had a inclination toward gloomy outcomes. The economically dynamic Scotland of the industrial revolution is long gone.
This event is just a continuation of the slow motion unraveling of the great nation states, which has been underway for the last 30 years.
Is there a consensus on world’s best single malt?
WRC
Lagavulin. pl
Another vote here for Lagavulin.
I beg to disagree, Colonel Lang.
Talisker has my heart, though I have been known to be unfaithful with a drop of Blair Athol now and then.
Macallan 18. But give me time, I’m still young.
At some time I read a very interesting economic history book that suggested the largest efficient economic unit was the city state (and surrounding agricultural lands). Her thesis was that inevitably, in any country, one city outcompeted all the others (usually by capturing the govt and adjusting policy), and the others largely die and disappear. Examples abound in Europe.
In that regards, Edinburough has been slowly dying compared to London (from Wikipedia – I chose a century after the plague)
1560 – population 12000 50,000 x4
2012 – population 482640 7.850.000 x16
short term is gloomy, but long-term, the Scottish govt can set its own policy and then its future is its own. I have known a lot of very smart scottish gents, and there is no reason scotland could not focus on software and marine technologies like Ireland and Norway.
Thanks PL!
“The noblest prospect which a Scotchman ever sees, is the high road that leads him to England!”
I like Laophroig.
My favorite memory is drinking some with my wife 2 years ago in May at a campsite on the coast of Newfoundland overlooking the Gulf of St. Lawrence at sunset.
Black Bush single malt
Sure, Samuel Johnson, whom you are quoting, was an Englishman and a Tory.
I lived in England and I spent a lot of time in Ireland and Scotland. I loved England, and unlike some, I am fond of the English people. That, however, doesnt change the basic facts of the situation. The Scots are a distinct people, with a distinct history. They should have a right to determine their own destiny and their own future.
Getting off the bus in Cricklewood, north London, years ago, I saw the street signs were in Arabic and the store fronts advertised halal meat and other items in Arabic as well.
Again, poetic justice. In parts of England, one almost never hears English spoken. Urdu, Arabic, Hindi and other languages are the flavour of the day and have been for 40 years. England, the coloniser is now the colonised. Unlike in India, Africa and the Middle East, these colonisers are there to stay and England is better for it.
Lagavulin — Brian Cox’s favorite too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HgTPs2_ut8
WRC,
There are approximately 100 malt distilleries left in operation through out Scotland(by our Gringo standards they are all fairly small). Each one has a unique signature in the taste of its product.
I was introduced to the stuff,shortly after I was taken off of mother’s milk. It has proven to be a more than adequate substitute.
About 30 or 40 years ago in order to survive,the industry discovered modern marketing with all of the attendant bullshit.
A good portion of the native Scots,prefer the more full bodied malts (read:peat fire in your mouth).
In my case I prefer two down market malts, Jura and Bunnahabhain(due to a family connection going back about 600 years). In short it all rides on the tongue of the consumer. But it is all nectar of the gods.
You are not looking at it the right way.
No one “deserves” a state or country of their own – and some people – such as Sikhs and Kurds – are incapable of achieving it.
As for Urdu, Arabic etc. signs; that all will disappear in a few generations.
There is no signs in any Slavic language in Swabia.
Amen.
Thanks all for the recommendations and goodby to blends and Sir John Walker red or black!
So the survival of an independent Scotland could ride on or even be assured by its single malts?
Gentle Correspondents,
Macallan 18 is luxuriously sweet. But real men drink and savor the salty smoky peaty loveliness of Talisker.
By the way, this conversation string has been most entertaining to this German/Irish/Norwegian/Dutch American.
I love Black Bush, but it’s technically not a single malt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bush .
IMO, the best Irish whiskey is Redbreast 15, which is described as “Single Irish Pot Still” which is not exactly the same as single malt (I don’t care since it’s delicious!). http://thecasks.com/2011/03/17/redbreast-15-year-old-review/ The 12 year is also excellent, and more affordable.
My absolutely favorite scotch is Balvenie 21 Portwood, and my favorite more affordable scotch is Aberlour 16.
But there are so many great small batch bourbons and ryes on market today (due to the Craft Distillery/Microdistillery Movement), that my husband and I have been drinking more of those. It’s great to be able to buy American and save money (over pricy imported whiskies).
Thanks to the contributors who made my point by saying Scotland cannot afford independence.
The value you give to Independence, Pride, patriotism, Freedom, loyalty, joy, peace is crucial and depends on whether your spirit is already dead or alive.
If fear has gripped your heart and you see no value in these you should, in all decency, step aside and take your cold hand off the exciting opportunity and new dawn that will allow Scotlands unique contribution to flourish. What an exciting prospect.
You are in the delivery room. Do not try to strangle it at birth. Independence and Freedom are very powerful ideas that if not given may be taken by impatient patriotic people .
It is very important to set the idealistic base for the materialistic arguments that we can show are in Scotlands favour. The Scots are a Nation. Their flag must fly independently and proudly.
If they vote themselves into a state, they certainly do deserve it. As to the reference to Schwaben, being German born and of German ancestry, I am not sure that your reference means. Schwaben has been “German” for 2,000 years, and remained so when it was incorporated into Frankish Empire in 496. It has never been anything but German during recorded memory. The example hardly applies here.
My examples still stands. The English have lost their empire and are now colonised by the people it once enslaved and colonized. Whether or not there are street signs in Arabic in Cricklewood in 50 years is irrelevent. The impact of non-white, former colonised peoples, to England will never go away. England has been changed forever.
Back to Scotland, the peoples currently there have been there, like Schwaben, since the begining of recorded history. The Scots are a distinct people, with a distint history, and their own language. You might not like it, but that is irrelevant. Continue quoting racist and prejudice quotes by Englishman, again, that is irrelevant.
Back in the day it was said that Catholics did not drink Bushmills because it is a Protestant drink. I dont know if people still think this way, but Bushmills, the town, still is a Protestant town. Last time I was there the first thing you saw driving into the town was a sign from the UDA (Ulster Defense Assocation), the local loyalist paramilitary group.
The prefered drink was Jameson’s.
John,
While I admire your attitude and enthusiasm for the cause of Scottish Independence, I have personally found life to be disturbingly complicated.
For instance at the end of the day after you take your independence, you may well find. You have only traded the vapid hand of Westminster for the chain mailed hand of the German central bank. Ask the Greeks how that is working out.
MY guess (without having seen any internal polling) is your movement will succeed. And I will wish independent Scotland the very best.
But this time, don’t go signing up with some French fop of a leader like Bonnie Prince Charlie, and make another Quixotic charge on London. I am sure such an event, would seriously disturb single malt production.
Ledaig, paint thinner and axle grease, in a good way.
N.B The German military has deep respect for the “Ladies From Hell”!
You are mighty right Laddie.
Ledaig,Like the magic mists of Mull. Hard,Steel gray and cool, but it still warms the heart.
Drink enough of the stuff and it is “Death to Sassenachs”.