With Thursday’s criminal convictions of five Proud Boys, including leader Henry “Enrique” Tarrio, a third jury has stamped history’s judgment on January 6 as an organized, violent uprising meant to overturn the 2020 election. In courtrooms, it’s now established beyond a reasonable doubt that the Capitol siege was not spontaneous, but rather a planned assault by force on our democracy. Four defendants — Ethan Nordean, Joseph Biggs, Zachary Rehl and Tarrio — were found guilty of the top charge of seditious conspiracy. (The jury reached a partial verdict in the case, meaning it will continue deliberations on some remaining counts.)
In less than half a year, juries have rendered three sets of guilty verdicts — 10 in total — for seditious conspiracy. The crime means that two or more people agreed “to try to overthrow… or to destroy by force the Government of the United States … or [its] authority … or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of [its] law.” Conviction carries a maximum 20-year term of imprisonment.
https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/msnbc-opinion/proud-boys-guilty-trump-legal-january-6-rcna82042
Comment: This is three different jury trials and I don’t think any of those three juries just rubber stamped the prosecutors’ charges in full. I notice that the charge of seditious conspiracy only applies to actions taken against the government of the United States. What charges would apply at a local or state level? How would a conspiracy to establish a so called free autonomous zone be addressed like the Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) in Seattle? Would it just conspiracy to commit whatever the crime would be?
TTG
My hunch, and it is only a hunch, is the blob got a two-for from the ‘proud boys’; first they used them as informers, and then they will use them as fodder to charge Trump with sedition.
Born losers.
I’m so old I had to look this up, I thought it was Laurel and Hardy meet the Mummy and Count Dracula. From the days before the lunatics ran the asylum.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbott_and_Costello_Meet_Frankenstein
New movie plot: A scientist invents an electron microscope so powerful that it can detect something noble in the Jan 6 jamboree. A rival claims his device has discovered something funny about them. A race is underway between espionage agents of the major powers to discover 1- which device has more powerful resolution and 2- if they are threats to international peace. The FBI is particularly interested, as hard as it is to believe the organization is led by an aging male cross-dressing homosexual living with his second in command who greatly fears covert attempts at humor and has been unsuccessful in his efforts to get Congress to legislate against it despite his huge archive of compromising files assembled over the course of decades. His zombie, an aging US president, has recently made significant progress in this regard. The story opens with a little girl from Kansas, now all grown up, remembering a frightening adventure from her youth with scary witches and singing munchkins who tried to ..
The question is not whether it was “spontaneous” but rather how many of Attorney General Yagoda’s informants were in that crowd, and how many were directed by traitors inside the FBI to behave as agent provcateurs.
We’re seeing a great example of boomer naivete and cognitive dissonance here, in real time: Russians are capable of a false flag against their own capital but American thugs aren’t?
I’m amazed that anyone would think that three convictions from courts in the People’s Republic of DC would be definitive proof of anything.
Walls are closing in! Trump to be charged any day now. Biden 2024!
“How would a conspiracy to establish …”
I was reliably (ha ha) informed those (Chaz, etc) were mostly peaceful, and that Covid was not an issue in the summer of George Floyd (cough cough) ‘protests’. Antifa, as pointed out by sources here, isn’t a conspiracy or organized in any way, nor ‘violent’. The actions in blocking the business of legislatures in Florida, Montanna, Tennessee or elsewhere are NOT conspiracies to disrupt government, nor “insurrections”. no no, those are perfectly acceptable. Guess which party is out of power and using such conduct to disrupt government to understand why that is so.
“This is three different jury trials and I don’t think any of those three juries just…”
Out of curiosity what venue were these ‘different’ juries in? All different venues? What jury pool of ‘peers’ made up the selected jurors? How might that have affected the judgement of jurors; and of course, just what exculpatory evidence was not provided to defense counsel? See J6 “violent” insurrectionist Buffalo Hat man video as shown on the now silenced Tucker Carlson Tonight where said individual was escorted around the capital by armed US law enforcement, aka Capitol Hill Police.
Walls are closing in. Again.
The bigger question is, “Will these guilty verdicts and jail time stop the Proud Boys II from attempting seditious actions in the future?”
If we can condense the insurrection of 1861 to “You cannot force us to believe what is moral and what is immoral”, and 2020 to “You cannot force us to believe what is true and what is delusion”, what is the likelihood of things getting worse?
Poppa,
The proper question is how many FBI confidential human sources prompted this conduct.
Fred,
You trying to paint Trump as a confidential human source? He goaded his followers to go to the Capitol, saying he’d be with them and then sat on his ass in the White House watching them on TV. He finally made a half-assed call for his supporters to leave the Capitol as the National Guard reinforcements arrived. Enrique Tarrio was a prolific informant for the FBI and local LE, but he wasn’t even in Dc on 6 Jan.
Facts are pesky things. There was an APPROVED demonstration site that the Trump supporters were to assemble at. No goading there. So how did the demonstrators get hijacked? Inquiring minds want to know. How is it that Ray Epps can lead and “goad” yet not be charged? How can a “conspiracy” be spontaneous (which is what the gubmint alleged in this case)? More to the point, how is it that Florida can count its votes in one night, but PA and AZ need weeks? How can five large counties nearly simultaneously pause the counting of votes, only to resume counting after massive Biden vote dumps? Finally, have You seen “2000 Mules”?
Bubba Schwartz,
There were six approved demonstration sites, the largest being on the Ellipse where Trump spoke. The others close to the Capitol grounds were for 50 protestors each. None were in the immediate vicinity od the Capitol or in the Capitol. The riot in the Capitol was planned. That’s what the Jan6 committee said and what the trials for seditious conspiracy were about. Only Trump supporters claim this was spontaneous.
Ray Epps was a former Proud Boy true believer. He personally witnessed a voting irregularity which would support those beliefs. He seemed more thoughtful and sincere to me than a lot of the stop the steal crowd including Powell, Giuliani and even Trump himself. But when he witnessed assaults on Capitol police, he changed his tune. Tarrio was an informer, not Epps.
Florida allows mail in ballots to be processed and counted as they come in before election day. The counting starts weeks before the day of election. That’s the smart way of doing things. PA and AZ laws prevented that in spite of legal efforts to allow it. That’s why it takes days, at least, to finish the count in those states. Here in Virginia, the rural counts come in first, always. The cities and northern Virginia DC suburbs take longer to come in. Every election starts out with what looks like a Republican landslide until all the local vote counts are reported. That’s happened since 1996 when I moved here. The same situation happens throughout the country.
2000 Mules? You must be joking or severely gullible.
Bubba,
Don’t go to stupid places, don’t follow stupid people, and don’t do stupid things; understanding those three things kept a few million Trumpers off the streets of D.C.
“How can five large counties …. only to resume counting ….?
Tammany Hall with 21st century IT. Also Daly’s Chicago and LBJ’s second senatorial election. That’s all old hat. Then there are ‘latches’ and standing, #believeallwomen – like Christine Beasley Ford, and protests outside justice’s homes that are also in no way to be considered intimidation.
Dear TTG and Fred,
So, I ask a few questions and now I’m gullible and stupid.
It has been my experience that name calling results from a lack of thoughtful opposition.
Ray Epps broke the same law at the same time as others who are now in jail for the offense. There was an approved protest site near the Capitol for the demonstrators, yet Epps was on the frontline in the WRONG place before Trump’s speech ended. Yet, there is no record of him being redirected to the proper assembly area. These are facts.
Cell phone records now somehow lie when they make us uncomfortable?
We should now tolerate corruption to get the desired result?
Gentlemen, you need to polish your bhisti skills. Yes, bhisti. It’s not a typo.
Sincerely,
Bubba
Bubba,
Epps didn’t enter the Capitol. Nor is there any evidence of him assaulting Capitol Police. Maybe he fancied himself as a MAGA hero being instrumental in stopping the vote certification and overturning the election, but when he saw the real violence that would entail, he changed his tune. He’s like the thousands who remained outside the Capitol, never laid hands on police officers, and maybe even chanted “Hang Mike Pence” without any real intention of hanging him. None of them have been arrested either.
TTG,
LOL that’s a good one. How few months after being formed did the FBI infiltrate the Proud Boys, six? I know Reuters is sooooo unreliable but here’s old news from 2 years ago to refresh your memory.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-proudboys-leader-exclusive/exclusive-proud-boys-leader-was-prolific-informer-for-law-enforcement-idUSKBN29W1PE
Fred,
Didn’t I point out that Tarrio was a prolific informer? But yes, my initial question was made in jest.
Dear Fred,
No, I was not in The People’s Republic of DC on January 6th.
Don’t be a lemming….. wasn’t that part of DJT’s appeal? Now, I don’t care for his behavior. And he’s definitely not Jesus, but the opposition treats him as if he is.
I simply think it is erroneous to draw conclusions about proof of anything from three jury trials in DC.
Some think this government needs to be limited in scope and reach; others are happy with the status quo or wish to replace it with their Utopia.
This is the divide.
TTG,
If you care to do the research, you will find photos and videos of Ray Epps holding and pushing a sign (which the prosecution called a massive battering ram) on the Capitol grounds.
In damning video first captured by Patty McMurray, Ray Epps is filmed hoisting a massive Trump sign with several other Trump supporters. Was he leading the efforts as he led the crowd when they breached not just the first set of barriers to the US Capitol but also the second set of barriers to the US Capitol that day? You can see Ray Epps in the video near the corner of the sign. The protesters walk it over to where the police are standing outside the US Capitol.
Ray Epps is with them the entire time. After the sign is released he pops up and is seen standing and directing the crowd. For this offense, the following sentences have been administered:
Charles “Brad” Smith – 41 months
Marshall Neefe – 41 months
Thomas Hamner – 30 months
Howard Richardson — 46 months
Alan Byerly — 34 months
Jose Padilla – 25 months incarcerated
Ray Epps – 0 months
While I was not a witness, it appears that there has not been an application of equal justice.
Earlier, you mentioned the Jan 6th committee. The minority of this committee was selected by the majority. That’s unprecedented! Minority leadership was given no opportunity to cross-examine witnesses or present any evidence. Such tactics would make Stalin blush.
Had there been a committee formed to arrive at the ugly truth, perhaps there would be healing rather than division. Instead, House democrats attempted to manipulate the narrative to destroy their opposition.
Ninety years ago, the Reichstag fire was used to persecute and outlaw the communist party in Germany. As someone wiser than me once noted, “History may not repeat itself, but it sure does rhyme.”
Bubba
any idea why Trump didn’t immediately call for it to stop ?
once Trump saw that his peaceful protest was hijacked by the deep state he would have immediately called for it to stop.
can you explain why he didn’t?
“You cannot force us to believe what is true and what is delusion”,
Truth, ah well yes, I had memorable exchanges about truth on SST. Was reminded of it when I read Robert Spencer’s article on silenced Trucker Carlson on PJMedia, Whitehall linked to elsewhere.
It is quite fascinating considering Carlson was just found out to NOT tell people what he feels is true, but something he thinks his audience wants to hear.
Robert Spencer:In 2024, Tucker Carlson could do a great deal to restore our severely damaged republic by giving us a primary debate in which the candidates had to speak honestly and confront the actual issues, rather than simply demonstrate their fealty, or lack thereof, to pet Leftist causes. Let’s hope it happens.
He is not dishonest, but can make people speak honestly?
The Leftist establishment doesn’t like PJ Media any more than they like Tucker Carlson. They use all their nefarious skills to make sure as few people see our stories as possible. That’s really what hating and fearing the truth look like.
Truth is what we think, truth lies in “our stories”, everything else is a lie.
And please go on and subscribe to our media network, “Townhall Media and sister publications”, where we tell you what you hear also known as the truth and nothing but the truth, writes David Horowitz protectee Robert Spencer.
I agree with Whitehall worth reading:
https://archive.is/omYFv#selection-1143.239-1151.211
there is a ‘not’ where none should be.
And he something is missing:
… where we tell you what you WANT TO hear also known as the truth and nothing but the truth, …
“where we tell you what you WANT TO hear also known as the truth and nothing but the truth”
LeaNder, that certainly describes Angela Merkel regarding immigration is your strength and the Green’s in how all that nuclear power generated electricity had to go.
Angela Merkel regarding immigration is your strength
Fred, dear, quite a while we had a little chat. What a pity PL cannot join us anymore.
Did she say it was our strength? She didn’t. She used the unfortunate coinage with ample images floating around of masses of people on the way and Hungary busy to erect walls. Wir schaffen das/We can do this. Meaning? Depends on your interpretation, but basically: We can help those people?
Thankfully, the (English Outsider in mind here) US proud free speech icon on the hill had nothing to do with these refugee streams.
nuclear power generated electricity had to go.
Yes, no doubt the moment we sensed and observed that the US did not like Russian energy flows into Europe we should have returned to nuclear power. About a decade ago, two. Time passes.
LeaNder,
“We can help those people?”
Just not in their native lands with the IMF, World Bank, and all the EU NGOs together. Might want to reread what Angela actually said about the need for immigration into Germany, even if she did nothing other than use the euphemism to her advantage?
“observed the US did not like Russian energy flows into Europe”
Trump was the one who pointed out the dependence, your leaders laughed at him. It was a different administration, with allies in Europe (the borg as PL put it), that impossed sanctions on RU gas (and other things entirely) that have ruined your economy due to its relience on RU gas. Natural gas now mostly repalced with even more expensive imports; and with a sabotaged pipeline (not entirely owned by Russia) which prevents a quick return to neutrality and cheap gas.
Fred, why should you pay attention to Europe? Surely no need. …
But US objections to Russian gas pipelines to Europe were old news when Trump addressed the issue his own special way. Check, South Stream. Successfully killed. …
Or check the Spiegel article below, this is under Bush jun in 2008, a long time before Trump. And it wasn’t different under Obama, either. Just the tone was less aggressive.
https://www.spiegel.de/international/world/russia-s-energy-weapon-german-us-tensions-grow-over-baltic-pipeline-a-579677.html
I know that Merkel is despised by many, she definitively was on SST as on other social media platforms during Greek crisis. In Greece especially they felt she should be portrayed with a little toothbrush mustache, the Brits considered that fitting it felt.
Merkel never got my vote, but then she did not need it. But from the moment I met her personally, for whatever reason, she gained my respect. Before she had been for me as for many other Germans only Kohl’s little girl.
Germany does need immigration, we are a very, very aging society, I guess you know. It’s become a lot more colorful over here in the last couple of decades.
I would assume you personally don’t object to Guatemalan US immigrant Luis von Ahn either. Do you?
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/04/24/how-much-can-duolingo-teach-us
LeaNder,
“why should you pay attention to Europe? Surely no need. …”
LOL you answer your own question when you reference what the EU did to Greece in your follow on comments. You left out some discussion on Euro-dollars, Libor, and the role of central banks vs. commercial banks. The difference today is in what the federal reserve, under non-Obama appointed leadership, is doing to the ECB (by not bailing them out like Bernake and Paulson did) right now.
LeaNder – I know the Americans are worried about free speech themselves; but compared with us they’re still the “proud free speech icon on the hill”. The contrast is dramatic.
That’s nothing to do with my pro-Americanism. It’s just cold hard fact.
On nuclear, as an ultra-Green myself I’m fully on board with the German resolution to get rid of nuclear power. And with the other environmental objectives of the Greens. Wish more of us in England had the same aims.
But all this Net Zero the day before yesterday nonsense is insane. On the engineering side it doesn’t work. It’s very suspect indeed on the environmental side. And the big risk is that the mess we in Europe are making with these fake environmental policies is more likely to turn the bulk of the electorate against us tree huggers rather than for.
On your last paragraph, you touch on a raw wound. Early last year I also believed that German foreign policy was largely determined by the Washington neocons. That, figuratively speaking, Scholz et al were pulled into the disaster by Biden.
I don’t believe that any more. Nor do I any longer believe that HMG acted as Washington’s sheepdog, pulling the reluctant Euros into line.
The Association Agreement was as crucial, more so, than the so often talked of NATO expansion. Far from seeing this failed venture as a Washington neocon venture, I now see it as a failed joint venture. The European politicians are expert in leveraging American military and financial power for their own purposes. I now believe they did so in this case.
E.O. NATO expansion remains on your mind. Pls tell me if you think NATO expanded into Sweden, Finland, the Baltics, Poland, the Czech Republic and Slovakia, (bad NATO!) or did those nations ask to join NATO? If the latter, why? Why did they ask to join NATO when the could have remained aligned to Russia. A mystery no? What do you think the Lithuanian legislature believes Russia’s motives are in Ukraine. Might they be worried that Russia will invade Russian speaking areas in the Baltics to protect them from Estonians, Latvians, and Lithuanians? Orban (who I like) has been careful in his remarks about Russia. Good thing b/c there was a Hungarian NAZI battalion during WW II and Putin may be worried about it threatening Russia. Perhaps there will be an SMO to remove latent NAZIs from Hungary, and Finland? The invasion of Ukraine has nothing to do w/gas, NAZIs, or the Donbass. It is entirely about forcing Ukraine back into Russian empire. Russia’s western neighbors know that.
Billy,
You left out all mention of why all that expansion of NATO was of benefit to American citizens or to our Republic in general.
TTG,
I admire you willingness to engage on this subject and admire even more your ability to do it firmly, but civilly, a trick i find myself increasingly less able to pull off. Well done.
I agree politically with very little of TTG’s ideas. But as the defacto moderator of the Col’s site it falls to TTG to make his point w/o being personal (“how many times must I tell you, no hominems pilgrims!”). It’s hard t/b civil but w/o same we have lost the Col’s gift.