Protesters calling for a ceasefire in Gaza shut down parts of Independence Avenue and demonstrated for several hours in the Cannon House Office Building rotunda Wednesday. More than 300 people were arrested, a Capitol Police spokesperson said around 6:30 p.m., adding that the number could rise.
The protest was organized by two Jewish advocacy groups, Jewish Voice for Peace and If Not Now, and began at noon on the National Mall before migrating to the Capitol complex. “We’re here because we’re in an incredible emergency, the worst I’ve seen in my lifetime, where Gaza is being decimated as we speak,” said Rebecca Vilkomerson, a member of Jewish Voice for Peace, as chants rang through the echoey rotunda and people were handcuffed and escorted out by Capitol Police.
Rep. Cori Bush, D-Mo., announced this week a resolution calling for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza. That resolution is supported by Reps. Rashida Tlaib of Michigan; André Carson of Indiana; Summer Lee of Pennsylvania; Delia Ramirez, Jonathan L. Jackson and Jesús “Chuy” García of Illinois; Ilhan Omar of Minnesota; Jamaal Bowman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Nydia M. Velázquez of New York; Bonnie Watson Coleman of New Jersey; and Ayanna S. Presley of Massachusetts. “Israel just bombed the Baptist Hospital killing 500 Palestinians (doctors, children, patients) just like that,” Tlaib wrote Tuesday on X. “@POTUS this is what happens when you refuse to facilitate a ceasefire & help de-escalate. Your war and destruction only approach has opened my eyes and many Palestinian Americans and Muslims Americans like me. We will remember where you stood.”
Tlaib, who is the daughter of Palestinian immigrants and is the first Palestinian-American woman elected to Congress, was criticized on Wednesday for refusing to take the post down and again referenced the destruction of the hospital when speaking in front of the crowd of protesters gathered on the National Mall (before it moved toward the Cannon building). She was joined at the protest by Bush. “Today we demand that the world and our government don’t turn a blind eye to the collective punishment against Palestinians that we are witnessing, even as we strongly condemn Hamas for the appalling … loss of life,” Bush said.
Rep. Randy Weber, a Texas Republican whose office is near the Cannon rotunda, posted a video to X on Wednesday showing an “I Stand With Israel” banner outside his office that was purportedly pulled down by protesters. “This is what happens when unrealistic, uneducated people want to support the killing of innocent Israelis, innocent Jews,” Weber said. “They want to come into this Capitol building and wreak havoc. They will tear down and destroy public property because they don’t have a clue what’s going on in the Middle East. … These people should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.”
Republicans like Sen. Tom Cotton quickly tried to draw a comparison between Wednesday’s protesters and those who stormed the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. “DOJ should treat this mob of Hamas supporters the same way they treated grandmothers who wandered into the Capitol on January 6,” Cotton wrote on X.
But the ceasefire protesters — unlike the violent mob that breached police lines and tried to halt the certification of President Joe Biden’s election on Jan. 6, 2021 — did not disrupt a session of Congress or enter the Capitol itself. They passed through security screenings to enter legislative office buildings that are open to the public. “There was no forced entry or break of protocol,” a Capitol Police spokesperson said.
https://rollcall.com/2023/10/18/capitol-police-arrest-gaza-ceasefire-protesters/
Comment: There was at least one apparent act of vandalism with Representative Randy Weber’s sign being torn down. These protesters went into the Canon Building with the express intent of being arrested. That’s another difference between these Jewish protesters and the 6 January crowd. Those guys expected to be hailed as heros, not arrested. Well, the the two Jewish groups got their wish. They were taken away, processed and issued summons for a later court dates. The If Not Now Movement said they will be back in DC on 25 October. It will be interesting to see if they’re allowed to enter any of the Capitol buildings that day or if they’ll try to forcefully occupy another rotunda.
A question I have is if these protesters voiced any support for Hamas or if they condemned the Hamas atrocities during this protest. Another is if they voiced any calls for Hamas to release hostages or honor a ceasefire. At least they had a banner saying “Mourn the dead. Fight like Hell for the living.” One should be able to seek justice while, at the same time, condemn terrorist actions.
TTG
Where were the “for peace” protesters when the war in Ukraine started?
https://www.facebook.com/jewishvoiceforpeace/posts/10161546407584992/
Looks like they were just anti Israeli then too.
“These protesters went into the Canon Building with the express intent of being arrested. That’s another difference between these Jewish protesters and the 6 January crowd. ”
You mean those people parading around and taking selfies? Buffalo horn guy who spent months in solitary confinement? The feds in the crowd? Or just the fools in the crowd? None of whom brought firearms to use in violently overthrowing the government. They have at least that much in common with this group of protestors.
Fred,
“Where were the “for peace” protesters when the war in Ukraine started?”
If they were consistent, they would have called for Russia not to invade Ukraine and, once they started the invasion, they would have called for Russians to withdraw back to Russia.
The J6 crowd didn’t want to shoot anybody, they wanted to stop the vote certification. They didn’t need firearms for that.
TTG,
So it has gone from violent insurrection to just stoping the vote certification. My how the narrative changes after a couple of years.
Fred,
The whole point of stopping the electoral vote certification was to thwart the Constitutionally mandated peaceful transfer of power between Trump and Biden. That’s the insurrection part. Battling the police in an attempt to do so is the violent part. If the J6 crowd stayed on their side of the police lines, I doubt there would have many, if any, arrests, trials, convictions and jail sentences.
TTG,
The statements from our national leadership were nothing like what you are now characterizing this event. How many arrests for ‘battling’ the police were there? How many convictions for same?
Fred,
That information is readily available. You’re more than capable of satisfying your own curiosity. But I’ve extracted some numbers for your convenience.
https://www.justice.gov/usao-dc/33-months-jan-6-attack-capitol-0
“Approximately 410 defendants have been charged with assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers or employees, including approximately 117 individuals who have been charged with using a deadly or dangerous weapon or causing serious bodily injury to an officer.”
“A total of 86 of those who have pleaded guilty to felonies have pleaded to federal charges of assaulting law enforcement officers. Approximately 41 additional defendants have pleaded guilty to feloniously obstructing, impeding, or interfering with a law enforcement officer during a civil disorder. Of these 127 defendants, 106 have now been sentenced to prison terms of up to 151 months.”
“122 individuals have been found guilty at contested trials, including 3 who were found guilty in the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. Another 30 individuals have been convicted following an agreed-upon set of facts. 63 of these 152 defendants were found guilty of assaulting, resisting, or impeding officers and/or obstructing officers during a civil disorder, which are felony offenses, including one who has been sentenced to more than 14 years in prison.”
TTG,
Also readily available is info on the crowd size in D.C. that day, which was thousands more than 410. Also available is this tidbit:
“USAO in DC has about a 60% overall conviction rate in non-J6 jury trials, but a 99.9% conviction rage in J6 jury trials. “
Fred,
Of course there were thousands more in the crowd in DC that day. They were there for the speeches on the Mall and subsequent protest outside the Capitol. They didn’t do a damned thing wrong. They’re not the ones being charged and convicted. If everyone stayed on their side of the police lines, there would have been very few, if any, arrests.
TTG, I have to disagree with your characterization. First we should be able to agree that large numbers of people had concerns over the conduct of the popular vote used to appoint electors. We can argue about whether those concerns had any validity, or were encouraged through “mis-information” or “big lies”. In general the first recourse was through election administrative process and when that failed through the courts. We should be able to agree that in those cases there was no evaluation of the merits or evidentiary hearings, or at least no definitive evaluation.
Thus using the precedent of 1876 the proper constitutional recourse was an appeal to Congress to consider the questions. It was also argued that the VP, in his role as presiding over the reception of the votes had more than simple ministerial authority (there was no such argument presented in 1876, but certainly in the way Congress subsequently resolved the disputed electors it shouldn’t be dismissed out of hand).
scott s,
There was a consideration of the electoral votes IAW procedures laid out in law just as in past elections. Legislators got to voice their opposition to accepting various state appointed electors. The Senate and House debated and voted on those lists. The result was confirmation of Biden’s electoral victory.
If the people at the Capitol on J6 had stayed on their side of the picket lines and refrained from doing anything like throwing rocks, I really doubt that anything they did there would by any stretch have been criminal. The people who are getting arrested and convicted for what happened there are the ones who entered the Capitol, and in particular the ones who did so violently. The ones who stayed out are generally not being prosecuted for anything.
Multiple Jan 6th participants did bring firearms and carried them on their person or stashed them in vehicles close by. Whether or not they planed to use them to “violently overthrow the government” who knows.
They have, however, been convicted for bringing the weapons and sent to prison for it. Maybe not enough brought them to encourage each other to actually use them. Who knows? Most of the people who were involved went home and were taken into custody days or weeks later, so no idea how many actually were armed.
Maybe the guy below, with multiple firearms, bows and Molotov cocktails and hundreds of rounds of ammo planned to use them to hunt DC deer and roast them up with the petrol bombs? I dont know, DC deer are rather small and stringy. Maybe someone miss informed him and told him the gathering on Jan 6th was a hunt and a BBQ?
“Lonnie Coffman of Alabama was found with multiple weapons in his vehicle and on his person. Coffman’s truck, which he had parked in the vicinity of the Capitol on the morning of Jan. 6, was packed with weaponry, including a handgun, a rifle and a shotgun, each loaded, according to court documents. In addition, the truck held hundreds of rounds of ammunition, several large-capacity ammunition feeding devices, a crossbow with bolts, machetes, camouflage smoke devices, a stun gun and 11 Molotov cocktails. When Coffman was detained, questioned and searched, police found two more handguns on his person.”
https://www.statesman.com/story/news/politics/politifact/2022/06/15/fact-check-were-firearms-other-weapons-capitol-jan-6/7621149001/
Stefan,
“Whether or not they planed to use them to “violently overthrow the government” who knows.” So much for keeping the narrative alive. All those thousands of people and the article listed 4 who had them on their person while on capital grounds. But lots of people WENT HOME and were not arrested until much later. My my. It’s very troubling that while the FBI can find and arrest the person from Alabama, the person who planted those bombs near the DNC and RNC offices. I wonder why.
https://www.fbi.gov/contact-us/field-offices/washingtondc/news/press-releases/fbi-washington-field-office-releases-video-and-additional-information-regarding-the-pipe-bomb-investigation-090821
Maybe this guy was not as stupid as many of the other Jan 6th types and videoed and live streamed his face and the faces of those around him. Dumb and Dumber, the Jan 6th edition.
Planting pipe bombs not as stupid as ‘parading’ in the Capital building? Sounds like you think that was a FED plant and not an actual terrorist.
How can they not arrest these people? What message does it send if not? That a so-called journalist like Greenwald or Tucker Carlson can’t or won’t see that is something I’m at a loss for words for, unless I make a deep dive into the conspiracy world. They’re arsonists, not reporters.
Interesting how supporters of the Palestinians are always asked to condemn the crimes done in their names, but supporters of Israel are not met with the same pre-emptive calls for condemnations of the crimes done in the name of Israel by the Israeli government and the settlers.
Those kids have no respect for our greatest generals and former Presidents such as Grant. Janie Grant did, way back in 1962. She even references Missile East politics, ancient history and Kennedy & Krushchev. And a famous men’s hair cream TV ad. “A little dab will do ya!”
My personal preference would be to hold up signs with photos of white phosphorus bombings outside the Israeli embassy and all sing together in flash mob style:
Are You Still Using That Greasy Kid Stuff?
Janie Grant – That Greasy Kid Stuff (1961-62)
https://youtu.be/9FU5rkuAyX4
Apparently TTG can’t read – Q. “A question I have is if these protesters voiced any support for Hamas or if they condemned the Hamas atrocities during this protest.” A. “Today we demand that the world and our government don’t turn a blind eye to the collective punishment against Palestinians that we are witnessing, even as we strongly condemn Hamas for the appalling … loss of life,”
Peter Williams,
Good. I’m glad to see that, but that’s just Cori Bush, not the two organizing groups themselves.
Generally speaking those who support Palestinians are required to condemn terror multiple times, every time an incident happens and every time they open their mouths. Of course no such requirements are made of supporters of Israel because they have a “purity of arms” and have the “most moral military in the world”. Asking them to condemn the crimes of the IDF, or even admit such a species of animal exists, is anti-Semitism.
Polls have consistently shown that that something like 90% of Gaza’s support Hamas. Those Palestinians bear much responsibility for the actions of Hamas.
Then Israeli citizens bear responsibility for all the crimes that their government perpetrates on the Palestinians which are to numerous to mention.
What crimes? Un-Marxist thinking and behavior?
All you defenders of terrorism and antisemitism are a hateful lot and your moral compasses are twisted.
Israel is surrounded by people that simply don’t – and won’t ever – accept her existence.
Eric Newhill,
You forget that the Palestinians are also surrounded by people that simply don’t – and won’t ever – accept their existence. There are plenty of Israelis who covet Palestinian land and want them gone by any means, vile or otherwise. There is no shortage of broken and twisted moral compasses.
Another supporter of collective guilt? Islamic law, and all that is derived from it, like Christianity, leaves the concept of collective guilt, and its just punishment, in the hands of God. Palestinians, of course, didn’t know nuffin ’bout the planned terror attack or the 1,400 killings, the rapes, or the kidnappings. Prior actions by the state, or individuals, didn’t justify those terror attacks.
Reminds me of the US after 9/11. Good thing the Afghans and the Iraqis didnt have the ability to do to the US what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians. 1,000,000 dead Iraqis. What price would have been okay for the American people to pay because of their support for that? So far, Israeli numbers would have made 5,000,000 dead in the US for our Iraq crimes a valid number then eh? If the US populace were made to pay with their lives for our poor leadership and our involvement in death and mayhem abroad…..I dont think there would be anyone left to lead in this country.
TTG,
No one wants the Palestinians, including their Arab brothers, because they are known extremists/radicals. Allowing them into a country represents a serious risk of destabilization.
The Palestinians are a lost cause. They are their own worst enemies.
No one wants the Palestinians? You seem to have forgotten their neighbours have hosted the Palestinians in the millions since 1948. There is a difference between wanting someone and normalising the expulsion of the Palestinians. If Palestinians were made full citizens of the countries that have hosted them for over 70 years the Israelis will have won. This is exactly what they want. Talk to the Palestinians themselves and most will tell you they want nothing but to go back to where they came from.
Seems you have drank the kool-aid and gone for seconds and thirds. Your racist diatribe against Palestinians sounds like it came right from a settler just back from burning some Palestinian family alive.
Now you want to label anyone who questions the Israeli “approved opinions” as being anti-Semitic and supporter of terrorist? Sounds vintage cancel culture to me. Sure you are not a progressive-Marxist wanting to stifle freedom of speech?
Great final summary. ” One should be able to seek justice while, at the same time, condemn terrorist actions.” Thanks, TTG. There’s a tendency to excuse or downplay the Hamas atrocities after the breakout because of the circumstances in which they were committed, and I don’t think that’s right.
That hospital bombing. I can’t see how the Israelis would have put a hospital on the target list. Moral considerations aside, that would simply be courting bad publicity at a time when the eyes of the world were on them. Is that too simplistic? Wondered if you’d had the time to look at the incident and arrive at a conclusion as to how whatever happened there happened.
EO,
The Israelis have already flattened whole blocks and killed several thousand Gazans in the process. To bomb a hospital that they thought was used as a Hamas headquarters is well within the realm of possibility, but this bombing doesn’t look like an Israeli bombing at all. The hospital is still standing. The rooftop solar panels are still intact. Videos and photos are more consistent with an errant rocket hitting the nearby parking lot.
If the Israelis are smart, they’ll see how close this one incident came to bringing the entire Arab world into active war and rethink their plans to level all of Gaza to destroy Hamas. The goal won’t change, but they’ll have to accomplish it while demonstrating some kind of humanity towards the Gazan Palestinians in the process. Biden was right when he warned Netanyahu not to repeat the same mistakes we did after 9/11.
Hananya Neftali, a former long standing digital aid to the Israeli PM, and member of the IDF, initially tweeted a statement taking responsibility for the hospital bombing stating that Hamas was using the hospital and that several Hamas fighters had been killed in the attack.
He later deleted the tweet and back tracked his comments. Given the long history of Israel denying attacks for which it was clear that they had done, I think the statement should be considered in this light.
Entirely possible they thought the hospital was empty. Israelis have already attacked multiple medical facilities.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/18/what-is-israels-narrative-on-the-gaza-hospital-explosion
As for Western “experts” on the subject…..are these the same ones that told us how Asad used chemical weapons and advocated for war against him? Only for it later to become clear there were chemical attacks…..but by ISIS and manipulated by the “White Helmets” to try and draw the west into the conflict? These claims were refuted on this very page by the Colonel and others.
As Bassem Yousef so famously said recently….”We have seen this movie before”.
Neftali was probably, foolishly, trying to get ahead of a report picked up on social media without verifying the story. It happens in this modern hyper fast digital world. Then found out that the story was Hamas propaganda.
The level of desperation of hateful western “intellectuals” to frame the situation in a Marxist oppressed/oppressor narrative and paint Israel as the bad guy oppressor has dialed up to 11. Per usual, it is a childish, morally distorted, petulant and ignorant world view they’re selling.
Muslim countries are dumping way more money into our system than Israel. Israel is going to lose the propaganda war long term. Actually they already have just in denial:
https://justthenews.com/world/middle-east/qatar-has-almost-30-registered-lobbyists-dc-continues-shelter-hamas-leadership
TTG: Biden was right when he warned Netanyahu not to repeat the same mistakes we did after 9/11.
What? He repeats poor slaughtered babies lies, threatens Lebanon with annihilation if they get involved… I attended peace protests before we bombed the heck out of Iraq, a country that had nothing to do with 9-11. Doesn’t make a difference !!! So what? Who cares? Many, many under the massive propaganda, all countries are at war with themselves and the world! Propaganda to confuse and demobilize, it works to some degree, we’ll see if Israel can survive after all this idiocy. Iraq ‘survived’ so why not Israel?
The consequences of this mess are going to be fantastical, lucky for the West, Putin rather likes Netenyahoo, otherwise…
I’d say that the global explosion of US militarism with war fronts from Ukraine to Gaza to Iran to the South China Sea is just plain STUPID !!! Biden and his advisors are full-on absolutely, unbelievable incompetent !!!
Any interview I’ve heard with military leaders/analysts seems so much more rational. For example Admiral Scott Swift or Lyle Goldstein.
UGH. Germans & Dutch in Cyprus, attacks on US base in Syria, attacks on Syria by Israel, this does not bode well, nuclear ships in Mediterranean, something is going to blow up!
Stupid Joe Biden!!!@
Joe B is senile. He thinks it’s 1970
How could an errant rocket especially ones used by Palestinians kill over 500 people?
Gordon Reed,
I’ve not seen any evidence that 500 people were killed by that strike at the hospital, only a claim from Hamas.
Okay but would one of their rockets be capable of that kind of carnage. I looked up how many Israelis have been killed by Hamas rockets and it was something like 30, this is over 20 years.
gordon reed,
Several hundred people camping out and milling about in that courtyard could certainly have died judging by the explosion and fireball observed in video. Qassam rockets have 20 to 50 pound warheads. The fire damage appears to cover the entire courtyard/parking lot. The fire would have been petrol in the vehicles and maybe propellant from a rocket. USI now estimates 100 to 300 casualties.
TTG
Nesmiyan posted this on the 18th Oct. You might look it over. He’s pretty reliable re truthfulness. Does it suggest a cluster ammunition of some sort?
Might it represent an attempt to frame the US in some way or say it came from a ship out in the eastern Mediterranean? (There are nutjob claims like that but not by Nesmiyan). Your department, not mine. Pleasant day to you. It’s interesting, that’s all.
https://t.me/anatoly_nesmiyan/13659
Gradually, the facts of yesterday’s attack on the hospital are becoming clearer. By the way, largely thanks to the Arab media.
Firstly, the destroyed hospital stands completely intact during all filming, as much as possible in a zone of shelling and combat operations. Something hit the parking lot, and the fire mushroom came from there – apparently, the gas tanks of the cars detonated.
Secondly, not a single media outlet was able to show the explosion craters – neither in the fall of the rocket, nor in the case of the detonation of detonated explosives from underground. The explosion of oxygen cylinders (there was such a version) was also not confirmed. The rocket fragments also never made it into the footage. If they weren’t found or they don’t fit into the desired version, it’s not clear.
Thirdly, multiple casualties are explained by the overcrowding of cars, which were apparently filled, and, as is customary, beyond any standards.
In addition, a more or less final count of casualties by the local health ministry put the death toll at 400. Which is a lot, but is explained precisely by the extremely unsuccessful arrival of something with a significant number of destructive elements from all points of view and the subsequent explosion of gasoline.
What it was in the end is a question, of course, for those who will conduct (and are conducting) the investigation. But it is impossible to make an unambiguous verdict in such conditions. It is clear that something arrived with a large number of fragmentation elements, but not of the high-explosive type. The origin and where it came from is the question
F&L,
That’s a good analysis from what I’ve seen. I agree there’s no definitive proof publicly available either way. Either somebody is playing 5 dimensional chess or, more likely, Hamas, Islamic Jihad and/or Israel pulled a boner. But Hamas is winning the post blast influence war so far.
i’m sick of the hair splitting and moral argument crap, as was the founder of this website.
The U.S. guarantees Israel’s continued existence as far as external threats are concerned and don’t forget Israel is a nuclear power, so there is no external “threat” to Israel’s existence.
Israel possesses overwhelming military power as far as the Palestinians are concerned.
Israeli army members and probably settlers as well shoot Palestinians for sport – which disgusted Pat Lang.
Israel runs an open air prison called Gaza, has consistently denied the Palestinians any hope of statehood and the one Prime Minister. who attempted a settlement was assassinated.
So let me ask you this – if you were in the hopeless position of the Palestinians, wouldn’t you revolt? Given Israel’s disgusting military behaviour, wouldn’t you be tempted to kill as many as you can?
Spare me the earnest legal arguments – we all know that’s B.S. Israel wants its own final solution and it doesnt include palestinians.
Yes and they even have a legal right to defend themselves against this ongoing treatment according to international law.
For the mystics.
1-What’s Joe Biden’s full first name? X What Country does he represent? Y
2- Who wrote “The Jewish Wars” and was a Jewish general and high priest who went over to the side of the Romans? Hint: Flavius __________
3- Put X and Y side by side. Doesn’t it spell the answer to 2?
walrus,
If I were a palestinian I would certainly try liberating the land, but that would have been back in ’48. I will point out that I have not heard of any of the Arab Israelis renouncing their citizenship. Raping women and killing children isn’t a way to achieve national liberation nor do past crimes by others justify those actions now or ever.
Fred, Yes of course you are right. Hamas is playing a vile game, but so is Israel. As for the raping and beheading babies etc., that goes into the skeptic file along with babies on bayonets (WWI) and babies sans incubators Iraq stories.
walrus,
The babies were not raped, though mothers were. Babies are dead, beheaded as corpses or not.
The Turks most certainly bayonetted a lot of Christiaan babies. I heard it straight from those who saw the dead. The Arabs most certainly purchased Christian children as slaves. Also heard straight from people who were there.
Maybe no one who was there belonged to your yacht club. Maybe the old folks you knew were too busy massacring Aborigines at the time to know what was happening on the there side of the world.
The good Colonel, may God rest his soul, had a romantic soft spot for Muslims, especially Arabs. He allowed himself to indulge a little in “going native”.
Israelis shooting Palestinians for sport sounds a lot like claims that US police shoot black youths for sport and for “genocidal” reasons (all 11 or 12 unarmed black men, out of millions of police/black interactions, shot by police each year). Of course the 11 or 12 were all minding their own business, doin’ nuffin, other than heading to school to pursue their dual majors in medicine and rocket science – and certainly not fist fighting police and that sort of thing.
It also sounds like the silly notion, proposed here, a while back, by Col. Lang himself, that Russian officers just shoot their enlisted men for sport; all the time.
What you, like a lot of people, are missing is that there is no solution other than the complete removal, by whatever means, of one of the opposing sides. The Arabs never could tolerate infidels on “their” land. Israeli Jews believe, with good reason, that they have nowhere else safe in the world where they can go (one point of Hamas’ attack is to show that Jews that Israel is not that safe place).
Palestinian statehood? They’re Arabs and they’re religious Muslims. They have the Ummah, do they not? You are thinking of statehood like a westerner. I don’t think that word means what you think it does when it comes to the Palestinians. My opinion, it is an excuse to seek the extermination of the Israelis, which is Hamas’ stated objective. It does buy pity points from westerners watching the region, self-righteously, from afar.
Strange, but the various Muslim empires have a long history of tolerating embedded jewish minorities for centuries, a case in point being Iran, so you are wrong to believe that islam and judaism are antithetical in principle. Jews are “people of the book”. My father (jewish upbringing) was sheltered from the Japanese by Filipino muslims for at least six months at great risk to themselves during WWII. What muslims won’t put up with are converts and evangelical behaviour.
So your second point, that jews and muslims could not mix in a nation state is rubbish too. Look no further than Lebanon and Syria and the various religions contained therein.
Where you are right is that Zionists – ultranationalist religious fascists like Likud and Netanyahu cannot and will not tolerate any religion but judaism in Israel, so why America, a humanist democracy with a prohibition against a state religion would wish to support a jewish religious theocracy is beyond me.
Yes you are also right – likud won’t support a two state solution, in fact history demonstrates Israel is committed to its own version of endlosung – they want the palestinians to just “disappear”.
As for your ad hominem s, Pat was most definitely not soft headed – he identified as a “hard hearted empath” what he saw of the treatment of Palestinians, on business in Israel disgusted him. You don’t seem to have the same high standards.
Me? Self righteous? I have my kippah in a drawer for the occasional funerals and am no stranger to anti semitic slurs over the years. Israel? Not in my name.
Walrus,
There are Arabs in the Israeli government, both appointed and elected.
Jews and Christians throughout the region have been subject to pogroms and even genocides. Even when relative peace enjoys its occasional brief day in the sun, non-Muslims are treated as second class citizens in majority Muslim countries.
ISIS and friends were murdering Christians and still would be if they hadn’t been stopped. If they could have gotten their hands on Jews, they would have murdered them too. There is a strain of Islam that seeks to express as ISIS did and Hamas embraces that strain.
I didn’t say Pat was soft in the head. Just so much more sloppy and facile misrepresenting on your part. I said he had a soft spot for Muslims, especially Arabs. He and I discussed that on this forum and elsewhere. Everyone has romantic notions, even if largely kept to oneself.
And BTW, Pat once tried to justify the Armenian genocide by stating that the Armenians were, after all, siding with Russia, so maybe they had it coming. THAT is how soft he was about Islam.
Oh look, to this very day, Muslim scum enjoy beheading Christians, cheering and laughing while they do it. Would you tolerate this in your command?
Muslims are not equivalent to Cristians, Jews, Taoists, Buddhists, Hindus…..they are twisted evil freaks because their religion permits, even encourages, the worst of human impulses to manifest.
https://azeriwarcrimes.org/2020/12/18/18-armenian-man-beheaded-alive-by-azerbaijani-forces-as-soldiers-cheer-and-clap/
Picking up a book might be useful. There is a reason why the Muslim world received numerous waves of Jewish refugees from European Christian countries over the centuries. Your racism, Islamophobia and classic Orientalism is on display.
Also noted that you are proposing ethnic cleansing and genocide. How enlightened. You seem to be the mirror image of the murderous Marxists you claim to hate.
Reading your posts is like reading straight from the Israeli extremist’s text books. If you think all Arabs are the same you really dont have the first clue what you are talking about. Like a Palestinian has much, if anything in common with a Yemeni, a Moroccan or the Sudanese?
You are just spewing uninformed, extremist Israeli settler speak.
In human history, groups of people displace other groups. There is no one who’s ancestors, at least, haven’t engaged in that behavior. Your fellow traveler, Walrus, conveniently ignores the Aussie’s treatment of the Aborigines while morally posturing over the Palestinian situation. This is Hamas’ turn to lose once and for all, along with Arabs that support the organization. Their hatred and desire to destroy Israel brought them to this point. Civilians will die too, just as they have done in any country led by maniacs that angered a greater power. Such is life.
“…racism, Islamophobia and classic Orientalism” LOL. You know nothing about me, nor my experiences, nor my heritage. You just don’t like what I say because it’s not the social currency that your crowd passes around like worthless paper money. And you like feeling morally outraged over the treatment of your imagined oppressed underdog.
At any rate, go ahead and scream and cry. No one cares. Israel will protect herself from an implacable foe regardless. Maybe you should volunteer to fight for Hamas.
Yeah, I didn’t think so.
Eric Newhill,
Pat did not have a “soft spot” for any people or religion. He respected the culture, the civilization, the humanity of others. And like Walrus said, “what he saw of the treatment of Palestinians, on business in Israel disgusted him”.
OTOH, you are showing your true color as a Zionist, and a racist. We have been on this blog long enough to remember you yourself have admitted that you are islamophobic.
TonyL,
Unlike many who have no skin in the game and yet have a soft spot for terrorism, I do not.
Islam is a violent, inferior, rip-off of the Judeo-Christian religion. Just look at how people are treated under Sharia. Do you advocate treating women like that? Gays? Look at it! Unlike you, I am not afraid to call a spade a spade. Also, unlike you I will not make excuses for a religion that seeks to convert everyone in the world to that paradigm and kill those who resist, including women and children. Furthermore, I will not make excuses for cowardly psychopathic “leaders” of a murderous religion that sacrifice their own people as pawns and human shields.
Eric Newhill,
There is no Judeo-Christian religion. They are separate religions with diametrically opposed beliefs. There are Christian sects that advocate treating women and gays similar to the ways the Salafists advocate. But I know of no Christian or Jewish group that comes close to the evil of Salafist jihadis or now the Hamas terrorists.
I think we can safely ignore Eric’s ignorant and ill informed opinions of Islam because he doesn’t even know that Islam is not a monocratic dictatorship presided over by a Pope, but has as many different flavors as there are Imams, coincidentally exactly like Judaism.
Islamic preachers, like rabbis, are self proclaimed and have individual followings. It should therefore be no surprise that flavors of Islam range from the extreme salafist/ likudnik types to the very laid back we see in parts of Asia.
I would classify the Hamas variant as a “prison religion” with muslim brotherhood leanings. That is at variance with the Palestinian authority, which is apparently corrupt from the top down. It should also be noted that hamas is what passes for government in Gaza, also, Hezbollah is part of the Lebanese Government…….much to Mr. Newhill s obvious disgust.
You also seem completely oblivious to the FACT that Palestinians are NOT all Muslim. They never have been. You are letting your brainwashing get in the way of facts. The second you advocated genocide you become just like Hamas and the settlers.
Today, Islam is a prominent religion in both Gaza and the West Bank. Most of the population in the State of Palestine are Muslims (85% in the West Bank and 99% in the Gaza Strip.
It was amazing in the mid-1970s how many new Aunties and Uncles I had. Great stuff for an 11 year old. They all arrived in Detroit from Lebanon. Those Armenians didn’t want any part of the turmoil over there. Within a few years, they were all rather successful small business owners.
I guess they could have just sat over there, ignorant and hating and throwing bombs. Somehow they were too smart for that.
If I were in that position, I obviously would be tempted to kill as many Israelis as I could – any human would be. However, consider what Hamas’ position right now would be if they had confined themselves strictly to attacking Israeli military targets and left the civilians entirely alone. There’s no question that the Israeli response would be essentially what it is right now without any difference, but the propaganda narrative surrounding the conflict would be completely different, and much more damaging to Israel. (Besides which, that would have been much more nearly the right thing to do.)
The longer the money purse is closed the better. No speaker is the right call. Suspend all spending. Everyone take a moment to think about the deuchebaggery of warfare. It serves no purpose other than to line the pockets of those chained to it. Everyone else gets their ass handed to them. Speaker free 2023. No more funding for war. Let them duke it out without US paper. It will not last very long. If anyone disagrees with me then you are benefiting from warfare. Just be honest about your deuchebaggery. Everyone is sick of this BS.
The Anglican Archbishop who oversaw the hospital in question said that the hospital received multiple calls from the Israelis in the days before the attack saying the hospital would be targeted. Let me guess, this Christian Archbishop is a secret Islamist? A secret Marxist trying to paint the Israelis as oppressors? Pathetic when people will pick “sides” based on little more than chosing the opposite of what their political opponents chose.
Some of the people here running cover for the Israelis have skewered them in the past on this very venue, but because some of the left support the Palestinians their convictions blow in the wind. There are many lefties types in the US who do not support the Palestinians, they are died hard Israeli supporters. So much these is even a term for them “progressive in everything but Palestine”.
https://www.facebook.com/reel/6165549616878857?mibextid=9drbnH
Stefan,
The Israelis demanded a million Palestinians leave northern Gaza. That included all doctors, nurses and patients from all hospitals in the north. That has not been disputed. The Baptist hospital was not singled out. Estimates are that Israel has already killed over 3,000 Palestinians in Gaza. The focus on this one hospital, with the questions surrounding what truly happened, diminishes the loss of that 3,000+. For that matter, I don’t see a lot of skepticism about Israel’s claim of 1,400 Israeli civilians slaughtered by Hamas on 7 October. Why aren’t those numbers questioned?
You think the left has abandoned the Palestinians? You haven’t been watching the news lately. Seems many are outraged that so many have voiced their support for the Palestinians and attempt to paint all this support for Palestinians as approval of Hamas terror. Yesterday’s DC protests by leftist Jewish organizations was for the plight of the Palestinians. That doesn’t mean they want the state of Israel wiped from the face of the Earth.
So you are saying you think the Anglican Archbishop was lying when he said they received phone calls from Israeli forces saying that the hospital itself was going to be targeted? Why would you think he is not telling the truth? Watch the video if you have not.
“The left” is no more a monolith than the “Arab world” or “the ummah” is. Large sections of the left if the US has NEVER been pro Palestinian. Some of it has, but it has always been a major point of contention within the progressive/leftist community in the US. This is something that is decades old, going back to 1948 itself. The left has NEVER been united on this issue.
It also is false to think most leftists want Israel wiped from the face of the earth. The leftist movement has no central leadership and you will find many different opinions. Anyone who contends that “the left” is united on this issue, or almost any issue, has no idea what they are talking about.
Stefan,
The only talk of the Archbishop lying is your comment. I have no reason to believe he’s lying and I haven’t seen anyone else claim he’s lying. What I am saying is that he’s not the only person in north Gaza who got the message to get out or die. That message went out to over a million living in the area.
He said the message was SPECIFIC to a pending attack on the hospital itself. Not the general message sent to all.
F&l … Guess I’m not a mystic? say what?
On the light side… Parkour
https://matargaza.com/about/
scroll down to video, most incredible Parkour I’ve ever seen, and keeping to the theme, he is from Gaza.
Kim Sky –
Ben Gurion is a non de guerre.
It’s taken from the real name of a character described in one of the Talmuds and in the works of Flavius Josephus (Joseph + US in my puzzle).
This character committed a screaming outrage 2000 years ago when he pretended to settle a standoff between the legions in Jerusalem and Jews who were revolting over the issue of a statue of the emperor erected in their midst. It got really out of hand and 600 Roman legion soldiers found themselves trapped but secure as the mob brayed for their blood. He negotiated a deal which allowed for their safe passage out to wherever the imperial forces were. In return the Romans would leave and take their statue, I don’t remember the details. But it was a sordid trap. They agreed, the 600 left their enclosure and this guy gave the signal and were massacred. An incredible outrage.
It’s one of things that led to the destruction of Jerusalem in 66 AD.
Josephus was one of the aristocrats of the Jews and a general. He fought for them but eventually switched sides. Because then as now it was the fundamentalist crazies that did in the Jews, not anyone else. He couldn’t take it anymore. Most Jews were hellenized and wanted little to do with the lunatic fringe which couldn’t tolerate a statue.
It proceeded then as it does now – a great empire was nearly ruined, the revolt was widespread – year of 4 emperors etc. Eventually Vespasian’s descendants restored order but again the Jews rebelled in the 2nd century and Hadrian finally threw them out for good, almost. .
Now they’re back and they’re at it again. It won’t end well for them or for the US.
That’s not mysticism, I misspoke. For mystics go here and study.the photo
https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20231018-biden-backs-israel-account-of-gaza-hospital-strike-denounces-hamas
One the RHS – three Israel flags – 666
On the LHS – Three American flags – 999
999 IS 666 upside down.
Why is the US flag 999? I leave that as an exercise for the reader. Sorry, I was a teacher long ago. Decoding the flags of Israel is elementary.
So there you have it. Netanhayu named his son Omri after the most evil of the evil kings of ancient Israel. And the so called founder of the Zionist state named himself after that man who betrayed 600 Roman soldiers to be slaughtered unarmed by a mob of fanatics after a negotiation and solemn promise.
I want nothing to do with those people at all. This country is finished unless it wakes up, but I can’t bother myself with it anymore.
It does not matter. Whoever pumps more money into the youth wins. Right now it’s not Israel. Whatever our views are worthless. Who is dumping more money into the univ system? It’s not Israel. What do you think is going to happen….meh. Same with elections, climate change The money decides. The money says Israel is finished. It will take a while but it is over. Same with Ukraine. It is over. Muslims have taken the space. Russians won. Accept reality or do not. Propaganda is not going to work anymore. The fight is over. I do not like it but I will face reality.
I think money in the USA has decided Israel is not sustainable in the future.Possibly.But things change.Natural disasters like you could not possibly imagine.Then money is worthless.
Next couple of weeks will be interesting.
mcohen
money and mcohen – two Irishmen. One is from France, the other became a Master of Ceremonies.
Monsieur O’Ney and MC O’Hen.
We will relate their interesting tale at a later date.
TTG
Tons of chatter on Telegram about this Kerson excursion and bridgehead on left bank of Dnieper – it’s in conjunction with Putin visiting Rostov on Don (Southern HQ) immediately after meeting w Xi so it’s additionally interesting.
https://t.me/logikamarkova/8737
The Ukrainian Armed Forces continue their offensive and are making progress in the Kherson direction. After several months of attempts, the Ukrainian Armed Forces were still able to create a bridgehead on the left bank of the Dnieper.
To make this bridgehead permanent, the Ukrainian Armed Forces still need to establish a permanent pontoon crossing. And transfer heavy military equipment. And then the Armed Forces of Ukraine can continue to advance in the operational space.
But the Russian army must break up the crossing.
And the Russian army must destroy the bridgehead. But this is hampered by the dominance of the Ukrainian Armed Forces’ artillery.
The creation of a bridgehead is a success for the Ukrainian Armed Forces and a threat and challenge for the Russian army.
F&L,
Rybar was talking about this a few days ago. He mentioned four groups (platoons?) from two Ukrainian Marine brigades. I though it might be another raid unless they start reinforcing and expanding this bridgehead. We’ll see.
Wild stuff in the Wholly Unholy gland. Two posts within a half day of each other.
I’m shocked. UAVs really are doing this? Cool.
Unz starts with Un as in unhuman, unholy and untrue but Chris Hedges was a real NY Times reporter who speaks fluent Arabic and this is a good reminder for a few of the ignorant folks here regarding Israel’s lies, and he didn’t write it for Unz:
https://www.unz.com/article/israels-culture-of-deceit/
————————————-
Pasted from Telegram ..
https://t.me/infantmilitario/110664
Last night a Merkava-IV tank was destroyed by a Hamas UAV attack. The number of tanks destroyed by Gaza factions increased to 21.
The number of tanks destroyed by Hezbollah is 12.
https://t.me/infantmilitario/110676
As the Turks write, the combat units of the Israeli army have 330 Merkava-IV and 160 Merkava-III tanks. 220 Merkava-IV and 660 Merkava-III are in reserve.
At least 33 Merkava-IVs have been destroyed so far.
Merkava-IIIs have not yet been seen in combat because they are located at storage bases in the center of the country due to their weak protection.
The IDF also has about 1,400 armored personnel carriers and armored fighting vehicles. At the same time, 40 out of 120 Namer infantry fighting vehicles were lost. All 20 of the 215 Achzarit were killed.
At least 50 of the 500 M113 armored personnel carriers were lost. No other equipment losses are known, but there are dozens of them.
Heavy armor losses are at least 110, and possibly around 150.
The Israeli army lost more than 10% of its tank fleet and at least the same number of armored personnel carriers in 12 days.
At least several hundred different military vehicles were also destroyed or damaged.
The Israeli army has never in its history faced such high losses of armored vehicles. The rapid decline of bases due to surprise raids, the loss of ATGMs and RPGs in a week-long active ground war, and attacks by UAVs loaded with explosives quickly increase losses.
In the event of a possible ground war, this number will increase further due to IEDs, mines, ATGMs, missiles, non-combat causes and possible excesses from friendly fire.
The US has already sent $8 billion to Israel and there is talk of another $12-14 billion being sent to Israel. They will have the best arms that US tax payers can afford to pay.