The DNI has now admitted in writing that he lied under oath to the senate. He must resign or be fired.
I renew my call for his depature. pl
President Obama, by remaining silent, must be consenting to lying before the House of Representatives. How many other Cabinet members is he (Obama) allowing to lie to the Representatives of the American people? Why does Congress consent to perjury by members of the Executive branch testifying before them?
Why? Because you are now living in an Imperium. There is no law but the word of the President.
Senate should enter a formal perjury referral to DoJ even if no prosecution. The power of the Senate at stake.
And agree of course with PL as to Clapper’s choices and the Presidents. NONE! Fire or get immediate resignation!
Absolutely! And General Alexander should request immediate retirement. He mouthed the same lies before Congress. Though neither of these two were case officers, they succumbed to the same disease as some others I’ve known. They don’t know when to turn off the manipulation and lying.
At the CIA Brennan sent a memo to the workforce calling it the “Honor the Oath” campaign, The intent is to reinforce the CIA’s corporate culture of secrecy. The secrecy agreements we sign are absolutely clear about what we are required to do and what will happen to us if we violate those agreements. I think it would be more appropriate to honor the oath we take to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. We invoke God’s name in taking this oath. That’s the oath we must honor. Even Obama seems to forget this. He says his first duty is to protect the American people. No, it’s not. His first duty is to support and defend the Constitution.
If that were true I would be in prison. pl
One problem is that a large portion of the US populace is not behind those last three sentences and the incentives for politicians continue to be calibrated accordingly.
Again, you are correct. It is just that the Executive Branch has gotten itself between a rock and a hard place. Since the start of the Global War on Terror the government has been lying to the people and it cannot stop. On top of it all, especially in the Bush II Administration, the ones in charge actually believed their own propaganda.
To work all marketing including propaganda/agitprop has to be based on the truth. The classic example is the old NBC TV show “Victory at Sea” which I first saw in reruns when I was a teenager. Instead, 21st century America is stuck in a never ending amoral quagmire supporting Syrian Sunni Jihadists; the very same true believers who attacked us on 9/11.
ABC broadcast a program consisting of Defense Department agitprop a little bit after the Afghanistan invasion. One segment was a film of bearded Special Forces men searching for a village elder whom they called “a bad guy”. I realized then it was all for nothing. To succeed there have to be enough boots on the ground to bring peace and a functioning government in order to convince the village elders and their people to join the invader’s new order. Considering their history, what worked with Germans and Japanese, probably didn’t have had a chance with the Afghans; but, nevertheless, the USA fought the war on the cheap which assured that in the end that there would be no victory.
If you’re Clapper or Holder, lie with impunity.
If you’re Roger Clemmens or Barry Bonds, you better watch out, apparently.
Our anarcho-tyrannical America.
It will be interesting to see how our friends in the mainest mainstream media deal with this — http://www.salon.com/2013/07/02/meet_the_journalists_against_journalism_club/
“From David Gregory to Andrew Ross Sorkin to David Brooks, the ranks of Washington’s hottest new club continues to swell. Call it Journalists Against Journalism — a group of reporters and pundits who are outraged that whistle-blowers and news organizations are colluding to expose illegal government surveillance. To this club, the best journalism is not the kind that challenges power or even merely sheds light on the inner workings of government; it is about protecting power and keeping the lights off.”
Or even http://truth-out.org/news/item/17369-if-they-can-lie-about-nsa-snowden-they-can-lie-about-syria-and-iran
“There’s a culture in much of Washington that believes that government officials can do and say whatever they want, so long as it’s in the service of the Empire. It’s the foreign policy version of Nixon’s ‘If the President does it, it’s not illegal.’ That may be useful for running an Empire, or it may not, but it’s not the rule of law. If it’s illegal for Joe and Mary Schmoe to do it, it’s illegal for the president and his or her lieutenants to do it – that’s the rule of law.”
So true. I blame ourselves for not demanding rigorous civics and American history classes at all levels of our education system. We were steeped in these subjects as children in my small New England town. Beginning in first grade, we made blue and red shakos out of construction paper, walked to the town green, paraded around our soldiers’ monument waving American flags and singing patriotic songs. All our parents took part in these celebrations. It was a good beginning.
We’d be part of the same prison gang.
The arrogance displayed in this sphere over the past decade, spanning 2 presidents and 4 administrations, is breath-taking. Nearly every day there is a revelation about another infringement on our civil liberties and system of law. Just today, we learn that the USPS has been photographing every piece of mail passing through heir hands. We also learn of the DOJ brief on force-feeding at Guantanamo that declares in blunt language that US courts have no say on the matter. This quiet revolution is occurring at a time when there are no significant threats to the Republic that compare to that presented by these abuses themselves. Who are these people and why are they give tacit backing by almost the entire political class?
I made an attempt to shed some light on these questions in an article that appeared in the Huffington Post last week. people. It can be found here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-brenner/the-snowden-affair-the-gr_...
Would there be grits and biscuits for breakfast? pl
And on holidays, a double helping of SOS.
Perjury should be punished. pl
I just read your HuffPost article. Excellent, Dr. Brenner. You paint a vivid picture of a diabolical machine run by soulless dimwits. And now the postman is photographing my mail. Time for some creative envelope art. BTW, here’s the full link for your article.
Yes just before the work detail re ‘chain gang ” .
‘What we have here is a failure to communicate ”
Wasn’t Sec of Defense Weinberger convicted of perjury then pardoned by Pappy Bush ?
Its past time for a third party . We could call it the Constitutional Party perhaps .
Oh yes. Sometimes it feels we’re headed that way.
Clapper has some serious nuts and bolts loose between the ears.
I almost had a stroke reading about the unconstitutional actions of the USPS. Wasn’t reading the correspondence (mail) of the colonial leaders one of reason we had a war for independence?
Only if 535 cowards in the House and Senate aid and abet this illegal conduct.
The only saving grace to that would be with this administration that prison would be as well run as Col. Klink’s Stalag 13.
I agree, Clapper and the others who lie to Congress (the people’s representatives) need to fall on their swords.
Our governments Pendulum has swung way to far with regard to Security since 9-11. Whether its making us take our shoes off, photographing our letters envelopes, storing our communications for future use, tracking who we communicate with, etc, etc. and it’s time for that Pendulum to swing back.
As Mark Twain said “Loyalty to Country Always, Loyalty to a Government only when they Deserve it”.
PL & TTG,
I think the new prison food is something called “Nutraloaf”. I saw a picture of it and it doesn’t look like it’s edible, but it is cheap. Please stay where you are so you don’t have to eat it.
Have a nice and safe 4th everyone!
I’m sure optimax and myself will still be out there to break the rest of you out.
Thanks. I guess I wont’ be hearing “What we’ve got here is failure to communicate.” from the warden.
They don’t “need to fall on their swords” they need to be convicted, imprisoned and lose all those pensions as a result. Then we can take all the money they make off book and movie deals, too.
I intend to testify against both of you. I am afraid of rats. I will encourage TTG to do the same. You are not SF. pl
Real rats or the snitch kind?
I kind of imagine optimax and myself to be something of a buddy cop film. He will be played by Kris Kristopherson. I will be played by Edward Norton. Your stand in will be Sir Anthony Hopkins, while TTG will be played by Sir Christopher Lee. Fred will be played by Dolph Lundgren.
But yes, save yourself as there is no gurantee of success. I am a gifted amateur, at best.
I have to side with Jeff Cooper. Not the 4th of July, Independence Day. Now to find a local Ringing of the Anvils.
Btw, supposedly Clapper has retreated to the tribal areas of Virginia:
The stories about Clapper’s lie are appearing in Salon and the like. They are not appearing in the New York Times, the Washington Post, and on CNN. It appears he will get a pass. The stories that eventually appear will frame the story as a political attack: “Republicans claim Clapper lied.”
A functioning press would be helpful.
I am so please that you pointed out that the president’s first duty is to support and defend the Constitution.
I cannot tell you the number of times I’ve screamed at a talking head on television when they incorrectly state the president’s primary duty to be something other than that.
Protecting the American people is a very nice sentiment, however it’s not a responsibility enumerated in the U.S. Constitution nor do presidents take an oath to do so.
The official recipe for “CREAMED CHIPPED BEEF” along with the entire US Army Recipe Book can be downloaded from the Quartermaster Corps website here: http://www.quartermaster.army.mil/jccoe/publications/food_links.html
CREAMED CHIPPED BEEF
Portion 6 Ounces
WATER,WARM, 8-1/3 lbs (1 gal)
MILK,NONFAT,DRY, 1-3/4 lbs (3 qts)
WATER,WARM, 31-1/3 lbs (3 gal 3 qts)
MARGARINE,SOFTENED, 1-1/2 lb (3-1/8 cup)
FLOUR,WHEAT,GENERAL PURPOSE, 2-1/4 lbs (2 qts)
PEPPER,BLACK,GROUND 1/2 oz (2 tbps)
1 Separate dried beef slices, cut into 1-inch slices.
2 Place beef in 190 F. water. Soak 5 minutes. Drain thoroughly.
3 Reconstitute milk. Heat to just below boiling. DO NOT BOIL.
4 Combine butter or margarine with flour and pepper; add to milk, stirring constantly. Cook 5 minutes until thickened.
5 Add beef to sauce; blend well. CCP: Internal temperature must reach 145 F. or higher for 15 seconds. Hold for service at 140 F. or higher.
They have rebranded it as Nutraloaf – it used to be called Soylent Green ..
Isn’t perjury to Congress a federal crime? Lawyers at SST can fill us in on the details and procedures.
I had in mind the rats in the wondrous interrogation device in 1984. pl
Don’t forget this question: how will Clapper ever go before Congress with an intelligence estimate that will be believed? He can’t. His credibility is totally shot- for that alone, he should step down or be fired. For the rest of his tenure, he have a cloud over him.
It’s not as if he is being suggested to commit ritual seppuku on the Mall.
Without punishment there will be no compliance.
Sir Christopher Lee. My first thought was, “Damn, how old does he think I am? Lee has 30 plus years on me.” Out of curiosity I did a little research. Christopher Lee knew J.R.R. Tolkien, fought alongside the Finns in the Winter War, served in the LRDG in North Africa and in the SOE, hunted down Nazi war criminals, played Dracula, Saruman and a Bond villain in over 600 films, is descended from Charlemagne, and now at 90 plus signs symphonic metal. He’s so badass, Chuck Norris pees himself when he hears Christopher Lee is in town. Now I’m honored.
Fred and the Pelican,
I agree absolutely with what both of you say.
The significance of punishment is not simply in the concrete material losses it inflicts. Beyond these, it is a symbolic statement, that certain kinds of behaviour are regarded, in a society, as disgraceful.
And this seems to me to define a fundamental problem, both in the U.S. and the U.K.
There is, obviously, nothing new about people in authority lying. And indeed, there are many situations when they have good reasons not to be fully candid, and indeed, to tell flat-out lies. But in the past, the pressures to lie have been in conflict with countervailing pressures created by cultural norms which stressed the importance of truth-telling.
These have, quite patently, become much weaker. Quite clearly, it is no longer generally felt that lying, on the part of people in authority, is disgraceful.
What we have is a culture of shamelessness.
How one gets out of this, I simply do not know. Palpable resentment among people at having been lied into wars, which is certainly very strong here, may be a source of constructive energy — it may also be a source of largely negative resentment. I find working out what is happening extraordinarily difficult.
That pardon should have been seen as an impeachable offense. Granted, the impeachment would have happened after Bush left office, but I can’t see anything in the Constitution that prevents that and it would have been a valuable precedent in itself.
You forgot the most important parts.
Ladle over stale toast on a slippery greasy battered tin tray.
Then you got real SOS! 🙂
Serve with half cold stale coffee dipped out of those big old cans they used to bring it out to us in.
Mermite cans. I was a mess officer once as an additional duty. Creamed chipped beef is an old Southern dish despised by city boy Yankee draftees in WW2. FIDO I love it. I had some this morning, I get my dried beef at Crabill’s in Tom’s Brook.
My “old sweat” Dad had doubts about my beautiful wife (she was too pretty) until she served him this for breakfast. You should have seen his face light up. My mother could never bother to do this for him
That’s what I thought you were getting at, but with the parlance of prison slang…
I’m surprised we haven’t gotten to that point yet as a nation. I suppose that’s still one step too far for some.
Yes, his martial history is what put me in mind.
He also kicks up his heels still – Greek rogue Taki has an entertaining story about getting drunk with him recently.
Yes sir, that’s the cans, I’d forgotten what they were called.
And yes I love real creamed chipped beef, still do.
My Mom used to make it. My Dad, the old Montana cowboy who slogged through New Guinea and the Philippines for the duration would grin from ear to ear and rave on about how great it was.
To all the old soldiers here,
Army chow could, at times, be an almost sacramental meal. I remember hearing the Gamma Goat ambulance making its way to my platoon position in the predawn light with mermites full of breakfast. The ambulances was the only heated vehicles in the battalion and were most welcome in the wet jungle of the Kahuku Mountains or the windy, arid Pohakaloa Training Area. Our little, cross eyed chief cook looked like he should be running a bodega in Brooklyn. He would often accompany the mermites and give a running commentary of how he prepared the food. I’d have the toast with scrambled eggs (not too green because our cook would add enough real eggs to the powdered eggs to tone down the hue), his deliciously prepared country fried potatoes, all topped with a ladle or more of creamed chipped beef. All this washed down with that canteen cup of coffee. It gave meaning to life.
I sometimes tried to replicate this in places like the Silver Diner in Tysons, much to the horror of my coworkers. It’s just never the same.
Christopher Lee is indeed pretty damned awesome.
My favorite anecdote about Sir Christopher comes from the set of The Two Towers. They were filming a scene where Saruman gets stabbed by Grima Wormtongue (a scene that didn’t appear in the theatre version) and Lee stopped Peter Jackson to explain, in considerable detail, what it actually sounds like when a man is stabbed in the back. There are youtube clips floating around of the director’s reaction to getting a quick reminder that Lee was not always an actor.
I have fond feelings for Christopher Lee because he has quite a bit of talent but isn’t any kind of snob. Many of his film appearances were in the old Hammer Horror films, he is an unapologetic fantasy nerd, and yeah, he sings in a heavy mithril band.
“canteen cup of coffee”, now that is spoiled. There were times where a cup of a coffee consisted of the contents of a coffee packet opened up, rationed with the saliva in one’s mouth, swished around, its rich bouquet savored, and then ‘drank’ down.
Canteen cup-o-java? Now that is spoiled.
The Post broke the Snowden story with The Guardian and the NYT has noted Clapper’s, um, misstatements. It’s not the press, it’s a lack of political will. A Democratic President is in the White House, Republican opinion is divided, and so far the polls suggest that Americans are pretty relaxed about the surveillance state as long as it’s focusing primarily on suspicious types and them furriners.
“There is no law but the word of the President.”
That would come as news to the President.
“If you have nothing to hide, you have no reason to be afraid.”
A lovely old saw that is still operative today. People just don’t see the danger.
In reference to the culture of lying and of arrogance noted by Mr. Brownlee and Mr. Brenner above, I am reminded of a post that appeared on this blog a few days ago, referring to “the nicest sense of personal honor” that a naval officer was expected to display. It appears to me that senses of both honor and shame have been absent in our national government for a very long time. The reference to President Nixon above was appropriate, but I think it became evident at least as early as the administration that preceded his. This may be a matter of my own perception, as I have found myself becoming increasingly skeptical about almost everything, and pessimistic about role of logic, reason, and our common humanity in our national discourse. I find this blog an oasis.
Sports scandals are a nice cheap, safe thing for the Congresscritters to moralize about. They’re far too complicit in all that security state/executive privilege/my country right or wrong junk to chase Clapper or Holder too aggressively.
I know you know this already, but I like to take a swing at the slow pitches sometimes too.
I set em up and you knock them out of the park.
Chow was a bit different on submarines. Forget fresh milk, eggs or vegetables after day 2. Though I do remember some ‘exceptinal’ alpaca/horse/mystery meat burgers on Unitas 25.
Yes, why indeed would the founding fathers even bother writing the 4th Ammendment. The Spanish Inquisition and the Star Chamber were not just skits made up by Monty Python and company.
I better grow a few inches (up, that is). Dolph’s 6’5″, though I’m glad I give that impression.
Colonel, TTG, Tyler,
In addition to Clapper being required to resign, and then criminally prosecuted for his lying to the Congress, should not Gen. Alexander also face a court-martial for his willful perjury before the Congress as well?
Every, DIRNSA, every Attorney General, and every DIRFBI that was/is a part (of) and parcel to the surveillance programs which trampled/are trampling the Constitutional rights of Mom and Pop America, should be held to account as well for their roles. That would include former DIRNSA/DCI Gen. Hayden, who if I’m not mistaken also perjured himself before the Congress on several occasions.
Now to the 64 dollar question, how far back do these willful perjuries go? All the way back to the Church Commission?
Should serious consideration now be undertaken to dismantle NSA and its usable components absorbed into DOD and the rest of its components relegated to the trash bins?
Should the Congress consider a full blown audit of NSA and all its components as to what is really necessary for our National Defense?
What do you think that President Jefferson would say regarding this if he were alive today?
Best line from “The Expendables” was: ‘Sorry if I’m a LITTLE ON EDGE talking to a GIANT with a SHOTGUN!’
Also his fight with Jet Li was pretty impressive.
He’s also a chemical engineer, IIRC.
To answer your questions:
Yes, likely further, and yes.
To your final question, he’d wonder why we haven’t risen up yet given the speed of information or the weaponry avaliable to the common man.
You cannot lie to Congress without consequences. If you can lie to Congress without consequences, then there has been a shift in power and Congress is effectively powerless. This is a weighty matter and might eventually prove the punctuation mark on a process which ends true democracy in the US.
I wonder on occasion if Jet Li is as formidable as he is rumored to be or if he just has loud fanboys. Do you have any impressions?
This Saturday Night Live skit always cracked me up:
I haven’t seen him in person so any opinions have to be taken with a massive grain of salt. His speed and form look great from what I can see, which is to be expected considering he’s been practicing legit wushu since he was eight years old or so and competed on the China National Team.
Leaving this article here for folks to read: