High genetic barrier to SARS-CoV-2 polyclonal neutralizing antibody escape…that’s a mouthful – TTG

Laboratory of Host-Pathogen Biology, Rockefeller University, NYC

Published: 20 September 2021

ABSTRACT – The number and variability of the neutralizing epitopes targeted by polyclonal antibodies in SARS-CoV-2 convalescent and vaccinated individuals are key determinants of neutralization breadth and the genetic barrier to viral escape. Using HIV-1 pseudotypes and plasma-selection experiments with vesicular stomatitis virus/SARS-CoV-2 chimeras, we show that multiple neutralizing epitopes, within and outside the receptor binding domain (RBD), are variably targeted by human polyclonal antibodies. Antibody targets coincide with spike sequences that are enriched for diversity in natural SARS-CoV-2 populations. By combining plasma-selected spike substitutions, we generated synthetic ‘polymutant’ spike protein pseudotypes that resisted polyclonal antibody neutralization to a similar degree as circulating variants of concern (VOC). By aggregating VOC-associated and antibody-selected spike substitutions into a single polymutant spike protein, we show that 20 naturally occurring mutations in SARS-CoV-2 spike are sufficient to generate pseudotypes with near-complete resistance to the polyclonal neutralizing antibodies generated by convalescents or mRNA vaccine recipients. Strikingly, however, plasma from individuals who had been infected and subsequently received mRNA vaccination, neutralized pseudotypes bearing this highly resistant SARS-CoV-2 polymutant spike, or diverse sarbecovirus spike proteins. Thus, optimally elicited human polyclonal antibodies against SARS-CoV-2 should be resilient to substantial future SARS-CoV-2 variation and may confer protection against potential future sarbecovirus pandemics.


Comment: All this medical research jargon is like trying to read Latin after having laid off it for fifty years. Still, what I gather is that these researchers created a kind of super-covid from the worst strains of existing covid variants. Isn’t that what “gain of function” is all about? It’s not biowarfare. It’s virological and immunological research. Still, let’s hope none of that escapes from the NYC lab where they created it over a year ago. 

They then tested antibodies created from a natural Covid-19 infection and antibodies created by someone with an mRNA vaccine against this “gain of function” super strain of Covid-19. The super Covid was resistant to both types of antibodies. However, antibodies from someone who both was infected and recovered from a Covid-19 infection AND received an mRNA vaccination defeated the super strain of Covid-19. Makes me think that those who get vaccinated and are unlucky enough to get a mild infection anyway may actually be pretty damned lucky.

This is good info to know for whatever may hit us next. And something is bound to hit us whether it be more Covid strains or some new virus. I’m sure there’s more details in the actual study, but the abstract is all I got. I’m glad this research continues. Again, it isn’t biowarfare research. It’s research to defend against this and future pandemics. I’d like to see what our present experimental monoclonal antibodies do against this super Covid as well as any other possible treatments out there, including ivermectin, even though this is probably limited to in vitro testing. At least I hope it was limited to in vitro, otherwise it sounds like an “Island of Dr. Moreau” situation.


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91 Responses to High genetic barrier to SARS-CoV-2 polyclonal neutralizing antibody escape…that’s a mouthful – TTG

  1. T says:

    ”This is good info to know” begs the question by whom? One persons biodefense research whether justified as for defense against wild or manufactured threats can easily become someone else’s howto guide for making a bioweapon. And millions spent on the original research is far cheaper to replicate than create.

    The research is needed to be prepared, but also increases the need to be prepared.

    Two things I think would be helpful are – biological kill switches required in all dangerous bacterial or viral experiments to reduce risk of accidental release and a strong regulatory agency. But again the two edged sword as kill switches would make dangerous research easier to perform.

    • Peter Hug says:

      They created what amounts to a kill switch in their viruses by using VSV, which will not replicate in humans. I’m sure the work was carried out in a BSL-3 or BSL-4 lab as well – Rockefeller has a BSL-3 lab at any rate.

      I suppose one interesting next step would be to integrate the 20 mutations they identified as being able to generate escape mutants into the HexaPro version of the spike protein that is currently being used to develop the NDV-HXP-S vaccine, and see if that can generate broadly neutralizing antibodies.

      • Peter Hug says:

        Oh, and if anyone wants to read the full paper, just click on the “Download PDF” button in the top right of the link posted by TTG. Nature is making all the pandemic-related stuff freely available, at least for now.

  2. Artemesia says:

    Exec. summary: mRNA does NOT vaccinate against SuperCovid

    • TTG says:

      You missed two thirds of the story. Natural immunity doesn’t work against this created super Covid either. But both together do work.

      • Artemesia says:

        “Both natural immunity” and mRNA gene therapy “work together.”

        Shall we put TTG in the “opposed to mask mandate” ledger, as encouraging contracting the virus in order to develop Natural Immunity?

        • TTG says:

          What you call natural immunity is also a form of gene therapy. Both the virus itself and the mRNA vaccines teach the immune systems to produce the needed antibodies along with creating B and T cells to fight off future infections. Even with natural immunity, you are not immune to a second infection. Both provide damned good protection against serious infection.

          • smoke says:

            “Both provide damned good protection against serious infection.”

            Although mRNA vaccines mimic some natural process, the protection provided is hardly equivalent.

            Natural immunity enables the body to recognize and resist many parts of the viral strand. The current mRNA vaccine only introduces our immune systems to a very specific piece of the virus, the S spike protein. Not the whole virus. Thus vaccines are producing a limited immunity.

            According to theory, with only a few mutations in the S spike, the virus can achieve viral escape. That is, the virus could change its spike face and again be unrecognizable to the body’s inventory of antibodies, built to resist the spike variant contained in the mRNA vaccine. Whereas, to sneak past natural resistance, created by infection with the virus itself, would require many mutations along the whole viral strand, a longer process of change.

            Overlapping results, but not at all equivalent – vaccines v natural immunity. Natural immunity is more robust and longer lasting than the present vaccines. The mRNA vaccine protection is, by its design, short term.

            Already, mutation in the S spike protein of delta may help explain why the vaccines are less protective against delta. (Recent FDA publications indicate that scientists are still trying to determine what part mutation plays in presently waning vaccine effectiveness.) Natural immunity provides better protection against a wider group of present and future variants.

            This is why, previously, vaccines have used a dead or attenuated virus, the whole thing, not just a small piece of it.

            And scientists previously showed some humility about creating synthetic viral entities to instruct human cells in vivo to produce viral materials that have the ability to injure or destroy cells.

            That said, virology and immunology are certainly learning as we go. We are the lab mice, whether deliberately or out of necessity and desperation. This virus and the current research concentration on its attributes and “life” cycle may end up teaching us much more than we think we already know about viruses and human adaptation to them.

          • TTG says:


            A study from Kentucky showed that even among the population that recovered from verified Covid-19 infections, having the vaccine resulted in better protection than relying on just the natural immunity.

            “Among Kentucky residents infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020, vaccination status of those reinfected during May–June 2021 was compared with that of residents who were not reinfected. In this case-control study, being unvaccinated was associated with 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with being fully vaccinated.”

            Of course, that doesn’t mean mRNA vaccines are the final answer. There’s room for a lot of improvement. The mRNA technology is also being investigated as a cancer treatment. I’m watching that with great interest.

          • smoke says:

            Did the Kentucky study determine what variant of covid was traversing their patient population during May-June 2021? In many parts of the country, delta did not become the dominant actor until later June or July. But there was a wizard’s stew of contenders. AFAWK

          • TTG says:

            Smoke, I have no idea what the variants in Kentucky were. Since it was an “after the fact” study, I don’t think full info is available on that.

        • Mark Logan says:

          An aspect of infection is initial load. The progression of infection, in this case a virus, the conversion of our own cells into virus factories, is exponential and what our immune systems need is time. Takes a lot longer for a small number of viruses or bacteria to get the ball rolling than, say, it does for a million.

          Masks are a mitigating factor, that’s all they are, but mitigation counts. Bigly.

      • Fred says:


        Natural immunity doesnt work, you need the new new shot, until when, the next mutation?

        Survival rates of Covid infection are?
        The side affects of this new HIV1 and a cattle virus engineering experiment are?
        To hell with these people and their insatiable need for funding and immunity from liability.

        • TTG says:

          The survival rate for Covid-19 is pretty damned good, Fred, except for the 1 in 500 of us that die from it. The survival rate is so good that natural immunity is probably far more prevalent than most people believe. The reported case numbers are most likely far lower than the actual case numbers due to the many asymptomatic and mild cases that go unreported.

          That vesicular stomatitis virus in cattle sounds horrible. I hope researchers are experimenting with it to develop a vaccine. I’m more concerned about the RVHD2 rabbit virus that’s spreading worldwide because I like rabbits and that virus could affect/kill our pet rabbits. Luckily a vaccine has been developed and we can obtain it for our rabbits if the virus spreads to our region.

          • Fred says:


            Just more proof this has become little more than political conformance mandates and not health policy. Time to end it all and fire a slew of politicians and career bureaucrats.

          • Artemesia says:

            “The reported case numbers are most likely far lower than the actual case numbers due to the many asymptomatic and mild cases that go unreported.”

            Gov Covid tracker says 42,234,211 cases, 675,671 deaths.
            That means 41,558,540 people had the virus and lived.

            But as you say, that number of cases is “most likely far lower.”
            That is, it is likely that far more people suffered the virus and survived, many of them “asymptomatic and mild.”

            Affirming your statemen,TTG, that

            “The survival rate is so good that natural immunity is probably far more prevalent than most people believe.”

          • Eric Newhill says:

            No one in 500. Way too high. 377,883 covid death in 2020. That’s closer to in 1,000.


            Deaths increased 15% in 2020 over 2019. From 715.2/100K to 828.7/100K. That’s age adjusted (boomers accounted for). Covid as contributing diagnosis was responsible for 11.3% of the increase. The rest were killed by covid panic and related policies and malpractice.

            Anyhow it’s killing 1 out of 1,000 of “us”, except it’s not an us I’m a part of. I’m not that old and I’m healthy.

  3. MidHudson Mary says:

    Not mentioned here is ADE (antibody dependent enhancement). Your body “sees” the spike protein as an enemy and speeds up production of antibodies eventually attacking itself. I’m not a scientist but this is how I understand ADE. There is not enough time yet to determine if this combination works in the long term. I’m still waiting and continue taking D3 and Zinc. If I could get ivermectin, I’d take that too.

    • TTG says:

      I’m not a scientist, either, but this article explains where and how the ADE scare originated and what the actual evidence says. It is a theoretical danger and it has been replicated in vitro with a Covid variant that’s no longer in circulation. It couldn’t be replicated in animal studies and is not a problem in human cases.


      Taking D3 and Zinc is good for your health for a variety of reasons. I take D3 myself. I also see no reason not to take ivermectin as long as you do it correctly. I don’t know if it works against Covid-19, but at least it doesn’t appear to hurt.

  4. Deap says:

    Sounds like Fauci hired a scriptwriter apologist.

    Amazing at one time all you had to do at one was look at a milkmaid”s complexion to understand the potential value of a “vaccine”. And at best we are still pouring all this talent, money energy, political capital and scientific credibility into a flu with a 99.99% recover rate if we just leave it alone.

    Conflation to justify more research grants comes to mind.

  5. Babeltuap says:

    They need to do this research on a remote island and nobody leaves until quarantine for 60 days on another island and all their possessions they brought with them are burned.

  6. TTG, two words for you:
    Murphy’s law

    But on a more pleasant note, here are four products you might have tried.
    If so, might you comment on them?

    Three Notch’d Biggie S’mores
    Ardent Imperial Stout
    Hardwood Farmhouse Pumpkin
    Founders Mas Agave Clasica (Lime)

    Three are from Virginia, not too far from where you live; one from Michigan.
    Just wondering 🙂

    • TTG says:

      Murphy’s Law indeed. I think Babeltuap’s recommendation that such research be limited to a remote island has merit. Speaking of Murphy’s Law, I’m also a little leery of the fusion research. What if a successful fusion reaction can be initiated and it can’t be contained, controlled or stopped? I don’t think the remotest island on Earth could save our asses in that case.

      Out of all those beers, I’ve only had one. I’ve had the Ardent Imperial Stout last year and liked it enough to order a second and I think a third. It’s a chocolate stout, but not overpoweringly so. But I like damned near all stouts. If you filter a stout through a roadkilled opossum carcass, I’d still drink it. The Ardent Ale House butts up against my favorite BBQ joint, ZZQ, in the Scott’s Addition neighborhood in Richmond. ZZQ is Texas style and is arguably the best BBQ joint in the mid-Atlantic region. It would be a crime, if not a grievous mortal sin, to put sauce on their fatty brisket. If you ever get to Richmond, I also recommend the Falcon Smash IPA at Triple Crossing Beer. That place has a brick pizza oven and makes a mean hot honey pepperoni pizza to go with that IPA.

  7. Tinky says:

    “Makes me think that those who get vaccinated and are unlucky enough to get a mild infection anyway may actually be pretty damned lucky.”

    The above suggests that you don’t understand how the mRNA vaccines work. They are non-sterilizing, in other words, they do NOT prevent infection. So there is no luck, bad or otherwise, involved in a vaccinated person being infected, as unlike the vaccines that most people think of (e.g. measles, chicken pox, etc.), COVID vaccines do not prevent the virus from replicating in the body.

    • TTG says:

      Tinky, even the polio vaccine, after a regimen of 3 or 4 shots, does not guarantee against catching polio if you become exposed to the polio virus. The key is that it’s now hard to get exposed to the virus due to a successful vaccination campaign. Also there are cases of people getting Covid-19 twice. Even the antibodies produced by natural immunity do not prevent the virus from replicating in the body.

  8. Mark Logan says:

    “Makes me think that those who get vaccinated and are unlucky enough to get a mild infection anyway may actually be pretty damned lucky.”

    Something that my doc expects as likely too. I got a mild case of Delta after being J&J vaxed. Very mild. Were he not a personal friend who insisted on me getting tested I wouldn’t have even known. Mild symptoms which lasted less than a week. He mentioned that I had may have well gotten a “super” booster shot by being infected with the real thing, which mobilized my immune system a second time and acquainted it with the real deal.

    Catching it does not required exceptional luck though. Delta has shaped up to be about as contagious as the common cold. Everybody not living in a cave is going to be infected, the only question is how much disease one experiences from infection. Everything from unnoticeable to fatal is in the cards.

    • Deap says:

      What we should know a lot more by now, other than this 100% random affliction scenario – (1) you may get it and not notice is, or (2) you will get it and die. Therefore in “the abundance of caution” we have to take 100% control of your life, your health, your freedom your wallet and your politics

      Where is the 18 months of collected and analyzed “covid” data? Where is the established triage should someone present symptoms of “covid”?

      This “you are all gonna die, maybe” scenario is how the powers that be continue to use “covid” as a cudgel.

      Where is the data based sliding scale of risk, where is. the data based sliding scale of risk from “covid” injections, where is the data based pre-testing for degree of vulnerabilities; where are the data tested therapeutics?

      I hope very soon we can move far away from this political weaponization of “covid” and back to the normal flu/cold season affliction we have called normal in the past. And yeah, we can die from the flu too.

    • Artemesia says:

      How do you know it was delta?
      Please describe the testing to determine what sickened you. AND how your doctor treated you for the mild delta.

      • Artemesia says:

        This is addressed to Mark Logan, who wrote that “I got a mild case of Delta” —
        “How do you know it was delta?
        Please describe the testing to determine what sickened you. AND how your doctor treated you for the mild delta.”

        If you don’t mind, I would very much like to know how it was determined that you had “a case of Delta?”

        • TTG says:

          Artemesia, He said his doctor had him tested. Delta is the predominant variant now in the US. Having another variant now would be very unusual. If you’re waiting for Mark to post his lab results and whatever his doctor recommended for treatment, you’re going to have a long wait. Drop it.

          • Artemesia says:

            W respect, TTG, I didn’t ask you.
            Assuming Mark Logan is over 18, I’m guessing he can speak for himself, including telling me MYOB.
            (Although — if Mark is <13, he can physically change genders without his parents' knowledge or involvement. https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4949030/user-clip-sen-rand-paul-rachel-levine
            Count your blessings, Florida.)

            The best information about distinguishing Delta variant I learned from Dr. Peter McCullough,
            (@ 53 min)
            who said there are many variants; the whole virus (genetic code) should be tested to see what variant/s is/are active. The "whole virus" is in the gut, and the test for that is anal swab.

            If so many people are getting "Delta," why aren't we hearing complaints about anal swab?

            Perhaps there is another test for Delta? THAT is what would be useful to know.

        • Mark Logan says:


          Test results said Delta. Can’t say how the labs suss that out.

          No treatment, none needed.

          • Artemesia says:

            Thank you Mark.

            Do you mind mentioning what was tested — blood? saliva? cheek swab? nasal swab?

          • Mark Logan says:

            Nasal swab. All three times. Quarantined until a negative test result from a swab taken 12 days after the first positive.

  9. Aletheia in Athens says:

    It is in fact The Island of Dr. Moureau all the way since the experiment started.
    Since, when they talk to us about cold numbers, especially through their diminishing effort trying to convince us these are a few souls who are worth being sacrified for got to know what good weh ave not yet seen, there are iover there in the net videos showing all the faces of people of all ages and the ammount of damage they siffered from the “vaccines”. the fcat that you know of nobody who resulted harmed does not imply there are not hundreds of thousands.

    Then it is how you enter the swampied grounds of slavery when you accept a mandate to vaccinate yourself while members of Congress are free of this mandate, can live an travel freely.
    This is why Biden at the UNGA stating he wants to bring “dignity” to the people of the world, sounded like the huge joke it really is…Such ridicule, he did, everybody was looking at him as if they were watching a pschiatric ward patient, just look at those faces, they are all recorde there fro psterity about this moment of human misery at all levels…..The Russian representative looked with the mask under the nose as if not being able to give credit…

    It is obvious this is a thing for proletarians only, one wonders why are we allowing two people like these, who are unable to articulate their ideas with a bit of clarity and cohesion, are taking over the world?


    BTW, do not you find estrambotic this Larry Fink talking to us about everything “green” while broadcasting from a home where he exhibit a dissected baby deer in such a disgusting and unesthetic way, and seems to have obliterated a whole forest to make all those unnecesary wooden beams he had the caprice to put there? Rare people, who are not able to talk clearly and have such estrident taste for dcorating their homes…Morevoer both have new teeth, which is everything except ecologic or “green”…

    They are peeing on us and stating it´s raining…It is not possible these both are such genius they say they are, there necesarily has to be someone up them…

    Btw, have I told you that the Rothschild´s castle in Switzerland is currently surrounded by furious demonstrators after the Covid Pass was impossed by the government there, jumping over the usual referendum custom, and that the police have had to fortify themselves behind a huge metallic fence with The Rothschilds?…
    Yeah….it´s happening…all these robbers will end like Mussolini…just time is needed….

    • Deap says:

      How do the CovidMeisters back out of this mess they created and save face, so the rest of us can finally get on with our lives?

      Our public health dept is now saying “Cases down and 85% inoculation rate” –by what ever criteria their sweet little hearts choose to use. Can they now declare they “won”, and can leave the scene smiling? And pick up their awards for being our local heros.

      I’ll even sign a thank you card, it this is what it takes to get them to finally shut up and get off the stage. .

  10. TonyL says:

    In related news.


    “Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis announced Tuesday that the state’s new surgeon general will be Joseph Ladapo, a UCLA researcher known for opposing evidence-based mask mandates, vaccine mandates, and lockdowns.”

    So now Florida has its own “death panel”.

    • Fred says:


      Spread the word far and wide! Stay away New Yorkers! and all the rest, too.

      • Datil D says:

        Won’t work Fred, someone who is going to bring reason and balance to public health policy instead of fearmongering is just going to bring more of them scampering down here.

  11. Eric Newhill says:

    “Science” is fertile ground for information ops and, indeed, much science these days is an info op. And funding to boot.

    No one wants to look stupid. So they assimilate “the science” to look smart, even though they have no idea whether it well done, nonsense junk or somewhere in between.

    Government funds the crap, government gets its desired message picked up by the media, MSM or social, it gets googled, etc. Now the collective mindset believes what the government wants it to.

    I am not vaxxed and will not be. I am not sick nor will I be. Be very afraid if you chose to be. I’ll live my life the way I want to. If you don’t like that, that’s your problem, or jump froggy.

    • TonyL says:


      “I am not sick nor will I be.”

      Really sorry to hear that. That’s what my co-worker’s brother said more or less, who was in this early 60’s and had no comorbidity.

      As the saying goes where I was growing up: don’t tempt fate. That’s unecessary and might be fatal. If you don’t like mRNA vaccine, then try getting other types if you can.

      • Eric Newhill says:

        My co-worker’s brother’s best friend got covid and when he recovered he looked 20 years younger, he could play the violin like Paganini (he had never picked up a violin before contracting covid) and his pecker grew 4 inches.

        Now by wife’s Gardner’s sister’s friend got covid and came out of it with an IQ 30 points higher than before getting sick. But she was also hit by lightening on the way to the hospital. So it could have been that that did it.

        I dunno. But hey, don’t worry about me. What’s the worst that could happen. I die? Yeah, like that wasn’t going to happen anyhow. Boo hoo poor whittle me.

      • Deap says:

        Taking this injection is tempting fate. There is no other conclusion to reach, now that the post-injection data is pouring in.

        With far more precision than the prior very loose-goosey “covid” data. Injections are tracked and take place at a specific time in a medically supervised setting.

        “Covid” incidence on the other hand is highly informal subject to wildly differing parameters. I am sorry for your friend. And I am sorry for those who were harmed by the “covid” injections.

        • TonyL says:


          “Taking this injection is tempting fate”

          Thank you for your comment. Yes, it’s a risk vs benefit thing. Although the mRNA vaccine is new, mRNA technology has been researched for a quite a long time. You’d weight the actual risk of dying or suffering the longterm effects from COVID-19, vs the potential risk of these vaccines. With take your pick. Colonel Lang and TTG did. So did I, and many others who frequently visit this forum.

    • CNu says:

      Science is fertile ground for information ops

      Here’s a good one. Now that the NYC super variant gain of function research is out, and now that those of us who’ve survived Covid know that we have a layered defense targeting 28 antigenic sites on the virus, rather than just the spike protein – somebody (I seem to recall that the chairman of reuters is on the board of pfizer) has gotten the bright idea to distract away from the dubious gain of function research and to instead focus public attention on “super human immunity” if only you too will submit to a few Mr. NA jabs.


      New research has found that some people who catch COVID-19 and are later vaccinated develop incredibly strong immunity to the virus

  12. Sam says:

    “Plans to genetically engineer coronaviruses and then conduct experiments in live bats at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were rejected by US funding agencies on the grounds that it could have put local communities at risk” Via @thetimes bravo #DRASTIC


    The conspiracy theorists are growing! Now more mass media publications in the UK.

    • blue peacock says:


      The people with axes to grind are those who have made every attempt to obfuscate & divert attention from their likely involvement in the creation of this pandemic.

      walrus loses credibility when he labels DRASTIC as a conspiracy website. Even mainstream media from Newsweek and The Times, The Telegraph, The Times of India, etc have credited them with uncovering many details that have been intentionally obscured by the Fauci & Daszak crew and outright blocked by the Chinese. Before the Chinese blocked access to all public information DRASTIC members uncovered documents on the expeditions to the Mojiang mine by the Wuhan Virology Institute staff, scientific Chinese papers on illnesses among some locals who had been in the mines, as well as other Chinese scientific papers relating to coronavirus and genetic engineering. Now DRASTIC uncovers Daszak’s proposal to DARPA with the methodology to engineer a coronavirus to make it more infectious to humans and “surprisingly” identical to the virus that has killed millions around the world. Isn’t it interesting that DARPA rejected the proposal precisely because of concern of the risks to the community? This is the kind of work our “intelligence agencies” should have been doing. But…they were too busy with Russia Collusion, Domestic Terrorism including organizing the alleged kidnapping of Whitmer.

      If Daszak & Fauci were transparent they would have informed everyone about the details of their collaborative research with WIV and that the virus resembles what they were genetically engineering. Instead they went to extraordinary lengths to obscure their work and got the compromised Lancet to publish their unchallenged letter claiming that anyone asking questions about a possible lab leak was a conspiracy theorist. Additionally, the WHO investigative team was completely compromised as it was basically staffed with everyone who had a conflict of interest including Daszak. It are these moves that have raised significant suspicion and raises serious questions of what exactly were Fauci, Daszak, and the folks in Wuhan up to? These are not actions of those who have nothing to hide.

      Now the Chinese have closed their barn door and likely all evidence at the WIV have been scrubbed. They will not cooperate in any transparent investigation of the origins. But such an investigation can still take place in the US, UK & France (all three countries have researchers who worked with WIV & China’s CDC on coronavirus research including genetic engineering). However, there’s no political will. The Democrats are unwilling to provide subpoena power to a congressional investigative committee. All this stinks considering the costs of millions of deaths, lockdowns and increasing authoritarianism, and leads to the only conclusion that a cover-up is taking place.

    • fakebot says:

      Thanks TTG for making info like this accessible and clear for folks like me. I mean that sincerely. I wouldn’t be able to make heads from tails on this sort of stuff.

      Further to Sam’s point, have you been made aware of that story that dropped yesterday?


      Scientists at the Wuhan Institute of Virology were planning to genetically enhance airborne coronaviruses and release aerosols containing “novel chimeric spike proteins” among cave bats in Yunnan, China, according to the 2018 proposal submitted to the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA).

      They also planned to alter coronaviruses to infect humans more easily by introducing “human-specific cleavage sites” to bat coronaviruses.

      The proposal was spearheaded by New York City-based EcoHealth Alliance — the nonprofit headed by British scientist Peter Daszak that has previously funneled federal funds to the Wuhan lab for bat coronavirus research.

      But the $14 million grant ended up being rejected by DARPA over fears it could result in gain-of-function research, which could make a virus more transmissible and pathogenic.

      “It is clear that the proposed project led by Peter Daszak could have put local communities at risk,” DARPA said in rejecting the proposal.

      Details of the leaked proposal were released Tuesday by Drastic Research, a group of international scientists investigating the origins of the pandemic.

      Drastic said it was provided the papers by a whistleblower, and a former member of the Trump administration confirmed the proposal’s authenticity to the Telegraph.

      It comes one week after a group of GOP lawmakers called for House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to subpoena Dr. Anthony Fauci on the origins of COVID-19.

      I’m not sure what to make of DRASTIC, nor whether the documents they forwarded hold real basis in facts, but I don’t think it’s entirely farfetched either. It seems to be a story worth following. Maybe it’s worth keeping in mind for now and dissecting it further when, or if, the documents they publicized are better authenticated.

  13. Sam says:

    The harm that big tech has done in the name of policing ‘misinformation’ is incalculable.

    The ‘trust & safety” referees possess a narrow pro-lockdown viewpoint. Propaganda to suppress skepticism of deadly lockdowns is dangerous to public health.


    Bulletin from zero-COVID NZ:
    Two men arrested for smuggling KFC in violation of NZ level four lockdown. Police photos revealed three buckets of chicken, 10 tubs of coleslaw, and an undisclosed quantity of fries.

    They face up to 6 months in jail.


    Australia and NZ are the tip of the spear of authoritarianism in the west.

  14. Deap says:

    The violent “covid” misinformation campaign continues unabated, with no changes in materially inaccurate perceptions about both the affliction and its control:


    Phenomenologically, these are very dark days for planet earth, when mass hysteria got such a tight grip that nothing seems to loosen it.

    The age of mass superstition – coinciding with the wholesale rejection of “religion” which ironically was discredited by the same masses as “silly superstition”. Yet now the masses slavishly follow their own made up “covid” religion, and are willingly led by anointed “experts”

  15. Deap says:

    The state of medical “care” today – from the inside – and the tyranny of group think Medicare protocols – hints of what “universal health care” will look like:


    • Eric Newhill says:

      The feds have the same short hairs hold on insurance. If we don’t go along with what King Fauci says, we are open to lawsuits for going against/outside his medical protocols and the feds regulate us so heavily that they can literally destroy a Fortune 100 company in short order.

      The federal govt is gaining a strangle hold on all business. It is fascism leaning towards de facto socialism of a short. Feds got to go or the country will be turned to garbage soon.

      I don’t believe a thing they say. Same with scientists studying covid. The govt has them in a choke hold as well (funding, threats of exile, censorship, etc)

      • Deap says:

        Just listened to a zoom podcast from UCSF medical school on the latest status of “covid” – re: boosters and waning injection effectiveness. Besides first class mumbo jumbo with opinions passing for “science”, it was all Fauci, all Biden, all CDC, all the time garbage. Our tax dollars at work out in California.

        Not a single mention of natural immunity. Only after a questions was asked did this topic come up, but only in relation to the “need” for booster shots for those who have natural immunity; The answer of course was yes, yes, yes.

        And isn’t Moderna wonderful since it is not yet showing “fading” like Pfizer. And now J&J one shot simply is not good enough – must do another 6 months later. I ask you, how did they all the sudden get this long term study data? They didn’t.

        Using scare “percentages” also, with no mention of actual underlying numbers, and “vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate – add more emergency authorization Frankenstein shots on top of emergency authorization Frankenstein shots.

        The theme among this crack team of highly paid UCSF “covid
        researchers is still zero covid as their sole goal, and that “cases”, with no qualifying factors as to severity are the only measurement to consider.

        Vietnam body counts to prove we are “winning”, all over again.

        • Deap says:

          They did mention there is a desperate need for “covid” therapeutics, and isn’t it great that Biden is now taking the lead to finally get us “covid” therapeutics. (Gag!)

          Plus it was not just taking the word of “Dr Fauci” …it was Tony to them. But then Tony was also at the forefront of the SF HIV debacle, so these people go back with Tony a long way – back to 1980’s at least.

        • Deap says:

          One more thing from this UCSF zoom conference was research on “covid” testing – how to improve its accuracy, including research on the use of your own cell phone to be somehow photo-sensitive, or something, to give you instant “covid” status feedback.

          I long for the days when getting sick meant take two aspirin, going to bed and drinking chicken soup. Amazing how up until the year 2020, this was pretty adequate health science.

  16. elkern says:

    Thx, TTG, good info. Yeah, “gain-of-function” research scares the crap outta me (I live near Plum Island…). My trust in Medicine as a Science is tempered by my disgust with Medicine as a Guild (promoting the financial interests of it’s members), but I’m still way more inclined to believe the CDC, etc, over “alternative” sources, especially now that this has all become so linked with entrenched political divisions here in the USA.

    I have never bothered with yearly Flu Vax, preferring to accept one (extra) Man-Cold each year, to keep my immune system “combat ready”. But I did take the Covid vax last winter (Moderna, x2), and wore mask as advised (by local/state “authorities”), largely because the “flatten-the-curve” thing made sense to me.

    IMO, USA has neglected investment in basic health-care for decades. Yes, we can brag about having many (most?) of the best doctors & hospitals in the world, which is great for those who can afford them. But too many Americans lack access to decent care (google “rural hospital closures”).
    So, when Covid – more contagious and virulent than most bugs – washed across the USA, our ICU’s filled up with patients. I didn’t want to contribute to that over-crowding, so I gladly accepted the vax & mask.
    Unfortunately, it looks like we’re falling back into that situation again (ICU “vacancy” is dangerously low in several States again). The first wave mostly hit coastal urban areas, because it was brought into our country on commercial airplanes filled with vectors (people) who have money to fly overseas (or jobs where that’s a requirement/perk). But the current wave is hitting “fly-over country” (ugly phrase, but you know what I mean) harder, largely because of ideo(il)logical resistance to reasonable precautions.

    I don’t LIKE wearing a mask, but I wear it in (indoor) public places because I value the health of my fellow citizens/humans. I’m not really worried about getting Covid, but I recognize that I might (unwittingly) be a carrier, and don’t really want to “share” it.

    I don’t like the idea of mandating the Vax – I’m an American, I value personal freedom, even the freedom to make stupid personal choices. But as ever, that freedom ends at the boundaries of each person’s body; and viruses don’t “respect” those boundaries.

    • Fred says:


      “freedom ends at the boundaries of each person’s body”

      They do? Since when?

      “(ICU “vacancy” is dangerously low in several States again)”
      Which ones are those? The Haitain non-vaxxed, non-masked ‘refugee’ resettlement states, the Obama birthday party state? Is it every hospital?

      I don’t recall a massive ICU construction line item in that infamous infrastructure bill, or our experts at CDC saying we need to build more of them just for this. What have they been doing all these months?

      • elkern says:

        States with dangerously low ICU vacancy: AL, AR, FL, GA, ID, MS, OR, TN, TX, WA. (google “which states are running out if ICU beds”). Looks like reports of full ICU’s started to tick up about a month ago. Blaming this on Haitians is ridiculous. No New England States on the list, though I’ve heard elsewhere that ME is having trouble with the new wave. Of course it’s not every hospital, but if a state has only 10% vacancy, that means that some (or many?) hospitals are totally full.

        As the recent vote in the House Energy & Commerce committee which sank the bill to allow Medicare to negotiate better drug prices shows, Big Pharma has purchased enough Democrats – along with all Republicans – to protect it’s profits. The Medical & Health Insurance industries do the same thing; millions of $ of campaign “donations” protect Billions of $ of profits. Do you think that’s a Good Thing?

        • Fred says:


          “Blaming this on Haitians is ridiculous.”

          I agree, Haitian hospital ICUs were never overwhelmed. These people, by our government’s own admission, pose no threat since they don’t plan on staying long (acording to Jen Psaki).

          “if a state has only 10% vacancy, that means that some (or many?) hospitals are totally full.”
          For the love of math no it does not mean that at all.

          “Billions of $ of profits. Do you think that’s a Good Thing?”

          Thanks for changing strawmen. Perhaps we should change politicians instead.

    • Barbara Ann says:


      “I don’t like the idea of mandating the Vax”

      Good to hear from a fellow anti-vaxxer.


      • Eric Newhill says:

        JOE BIDEN in 2015: “An unrelenting stream of immigration. Nonstop, nonstop. Folks like me who are Caucasian, of European descent, for the first time in 2017 we’ll be an absolute minority in the United States of America. Absolute minority. Fewer than 50% of the people in America from then and on will be white European stock. That’s not a bad thing. That’s a source of our strength.”

        Sure folks like him will a minority, but the dream of having all of the guns, money and power.

        I wonder what spike proteins do to reproductive systems and fetuses. There is some evidence that it might not be good. Guess we’ll start to see in a few months. Blacks, as a group, are resisting the vax at a high rate. I typically eschew conspiracy theories, but this covid thing sure begins to look like one. A virus that predominantly kills the elderly; those with the cultural and institutional knowledge that could be passed down (and who cost money that could be spent on new arrivals from the third world). A “woke” unaccountable lying government that publicly hates whites (except themselves) and wants to replace us with people ignorant of our way of life and who are ready and willing to work as serfs/slaves for the elites.

        What could possibly go wrong? Be very afraid and, like a good sheep, roll up your sleeve and present arm.

        I’ve never been so disappointed in my fellow Americans

      • elkern says:

        I’m not Anti-Vax. It’s obviously an important tool for public health (remember polio?). If USA had mandated Vax under Trump, we might have been able to totally squash Covid, like the MERS & SARS bugs that were contained a decade ago. Too late for that now; Covid is/has/will become endemic, like Infuenza. People will suffer from this for decades (or centuries, if medical science doesn’t have a breakthrough in treating viruses).

        • Deap says:

          This is not a “vaccine”. Can’t compare this new injection to anything in our entire history of health care delivery. Fraud ad initio.

        • Barbara Ann says:

          Ah, perhaps you didn’t read the dictionary definition. If you disapprove of “laws that mandate vaccination” you are now an anti-vaxxer. This was the point I was trying to make.

  17. Babeltuap says:

    Masks can’t work otherwise they would have recommended them during the height of flu season for decades. They never did. Even if it was marginal protection it was never on the table as a preventive measure. And the flu is associated with coughing, hence the infamous “droplets” more so than covid.

    But I digress. All one had to do was read the official studies dating back over a decade but Fauci does not want to discuss those. His position is similar to someone proving one can save gas on a long car trip by getting in shape and losing 25 lbs. Yes. Fuel will be saved and also add a few brake horsepower but it’s a stupid amount of value for the effort. Not enough to matter and not even worth calculating and why Fauci never applied “science” and calculated the benefit of masks.

    • Deap says:

      I ponder: if masks so efficaciously prevented 100% of the past flu season, why have they not also prevented the spread of “covid”?

  18. A contrary comment.

    Jeez. The amount of time and attention people are spending on covid is just incredible.
    Not to mention the dramatic, drastic, and long-lasting effects societies reaction to the covid scare will have on the future of that society.
    E.g., the effect on the education of our young.
    For a very local example, see
    “Arlington’s SOL pass rates declined 21 points in math and over five points in reading.
    This is an undeniable educational crisis. The reality might be worse than the scores show.”

    Why did we do all this?
    The blame game goes on: Fauci, some other doctors, the politicians.
    But let us not forget the media, which could have buried this as they did Humter Biden’s laptop and sex tapes.

    Finally, again, was it all worth it?
    I certainly have my doubts.
    People can point to this or that.
    That is the choice.
    The problem is finding the right balance.

    • TTG says:

      It’s been a lost year for a wide swath of our youth. The drop in scores is nationwide. It certainly added to the disparity between rich and poor. I think that’s the biggest cost of this pandemic. My sons took some online courses from Germany in the early 90s. That was dialup connections only, but they had teachers with doctorates for a lot of their teachers in the DODDS system. Very few in the states are that lucky.

      We, as a society, have never really invested in our kids. We talk a good story, but we do very little. I don’t know if will ever change.

      • Fred says:


        “…we do very little.”

        We spend a horendous amount of money at almost all levels. The past decade’s experiment with “common core” is at least equal to the conduct of the members of the teaching profession and their administrators this year.

        • Eric Newhill says:

          Just more govt waste, fat bureaucrats and creeping fascism. Govt is the enemy to be fought, not covid, which was created by govt and is hyped by govt to further the creeping fascism.

          Anyone who just believes these studies (masks work! Vaccines good!) and lacks the ability to assess the quality of the research and validity of the results is just another fascist govt tool, IMO.

          • Datil D says:

            This was posted as a comment in another blog (https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/vaccine/pfizer-the-numbers/ ), what do you make of his analysis.

            “Here’s some interesting math for you.
            Number needed to vaccinate is 142 for Pfizer. (Moderna is 88 but I’ll use Pfizer for the demonstration).
            So with Pfizer you need to vaccinate 117 people to prevent one CASE of covid. The current survival rate of covid is 99.86%, so approximately 1 death per thousand cases. So the NNV to prevent one covid DEATH is 117,000.
            In the first 6 months of 2021, 134 million people were fully vaccinated in the US. VAERS listed 10,335 vaccine related deaths by that point, about 56 per day. Vaers has been proven to be underreported but let’s use it as a very rough conservative estimate.
            So the 134 million / 10355 = 12,940 … one death per 12940 covid vaccinations.
            So if you vaccinate 117,000 people to save one covid death, 117,000/12940 = 9.04 people will have died from the vaccine.”

            BTW another interesting comment from the same blog

            “Hi, Living in Sweden it’s just insane watching the COVID responses around the world.
            The hospitals here aren’t even allowed to ask nurses or doctors if they are vaccinated, the same goes for all government employees. It’s funny that old socialist Sweden is now the land of the free.”

          • Eric Newhill says:

            Datil D,
            That is a very cool way to look at the situation. Thanks. I really it. It’s the right way to think about things (both sides of the impact; cost/benefit, ROI). That’s what I’m talking about.

            Conceptually, it makes sense. I’m not going to say whether or not his math/statistics are good because I’m pretty brain dead at the moment from really intense times at work for the last three weeks. Coincidentally, a friend asked me to help him understand and debunk a junk mask effectiveness study last night and I made a bludgeoned mess out of my own statistics before I was done and kind of embarrassed myself because I was rushing to complete for him while running on maybe a cylinder and a half.

            Back of the envelop this work looks good. But maybe another way to look at is more simple. The vaccine is killing, conservatively, 56/day. How many unvaccinated *in the same demographic* are dying FROM (not with) covid each day?

            I’m particularly interested in age brackets. Age 30-40 X killed by the vaccine. In the same time period age 30-40 Y killed by covid infection.

            My gut tells me that that up to a certain age, the vaccine is more dangerous than the virus, then at around age 60-70 the vaccine is about equally as dangerous as a covid infection. For ages above that covid is more dangerous.

          • PeterHug says:

            Datil D,
            Don’t forget that the VAERS system is intended to function as the open end of an analytic funnel that generates raw data that is then correlated and analyzed to find actual side effects of a vaccine. Absolutely anything that’s adverse that happens to someone after they’re vaccinated gets reported, with no discrimination whatsoever about whether the vaccine caused it.

            The VAERS database is contains raw info and nothing more. As such, it should be seen as an upper bound on side effects, and the vast majority of the reports are discounted after analysis.

            Therefore that component of the analysis you present is flawed – there are problems with the other steps, but that’s a big one.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            No. Even the CDC’s own recent study indicated that VAERS is significantly underreporting covid vaccine reactions because physicians and others aren’t regularly using the system when they should.

            Where do you civilians come up with this stuff? Do you just believe whatever the corporate media says? Or do you take it upon yourself to do “what’s right” to protect us all?

          • Eric Newhill says:

            “Civilians”? I think I meant to say “citizens”?

          • PeterHug says:

            …and here is an example of how that works in practice.

          • Eric Newhill says:

            Fact checkers = democrat/globohomo operatives; like you?

            Please don’t try low level gaslighting. It insults me/us.

  19. Leith says:


    A modern day Dr Moreau is not far off. Designer babies have been born in China since at least 2018. Their genes were edited using CRISPR technology when they were still embryos. It’s not just a Chinese thing. An American professor at Duke University championed the idea a decade before the Chinese did. And an American professor at Rice University was reportedly part of the experiment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Jiankui_affair

    Genetic modification of animals is a 50-year old technology. Germline editing with CRISPR now makes it an order of magnitude faster and easier; and it is being used in livestock as well as fish, dogs, & cats. It is supposedly regulated by both the FDA and Europe’s EMEA. Let us hope there are no unregulated and unsupervised experimenters in the rest of the world. https://archive.bio.org/articles/genetically-engineered-animals-frequently-asked-questions

    HG Wells was a hundred years ahead of his time. We have come a long way since then. Including the vivisection experiments of Josef Mengele and Shiro Ishii. What is next?

  20. Sam says:

    Eradication of Covid Is a Dangerous and Expensive Fantasy
    It seemed to work in New Zealand and Australia, but now ruinous, oppressive lockdowns are back.


    It appears sane voices are finally being allowed space in corporate media.

    This chart of cases in Australia proves definitively that lockdowns work. Doubling down works even better.


  21. Sam says:

    Analysis of the new leaked document from DRASTIC. By @Akselfrids.

    “the content of the experiments described and the viruses that could be generated by such methods are close to corresponding to the properties found in the SARS-CoV-2 virus.”

    “An important question is whether Peter Daszak shared his knowledge of the planned experiments with the WHO when he participated in their investigation earlier this year. So far, there is little to suggest that.”

    “Minerva has asked the @WHO to clarify the extent to which Peter Daszak shared his knowledge of these planned experiments in Wuhan with the WHO when he participated in the organization’s investigation. Minerva’s inquiry about this has not been answered.”


    This report is in Norwegian. If the US government wants to get to the bottom of the origins of the virus they have all the means. They have in their possession documents and they can subpoena Fauci, Daszak, Baric, et al to testify under oath. Why hasn’t this happened? Why don’t we see either political party demand this? Why don’t we see Trump do it? Why is it necessary for ordinary citizens around the world under the banner of DRASTIC doing the heavy lifting?

    • Deap says:

      Trump was on record: This is called the China virus, because it came from China. He was clear where it came from, and he was not compromised by Chinese entanglements. That could explain why he did not investigate it further.

      Getting rolled over by Fauci and the deep state was on Trump’s watch, but he like everything else was overtaken by the media and election year politics. That is our American tragedy. Trump is not blameless in that regard.

      Ironic, because Trump has always been a germaphobe. He gets a C- on his handling of “covid” under the political smoke screen Democrats intentionally created to take him down. Valor under fire still does not keep you from getting killed.

      • Sam says:

        Trump can redeem himself by making continuous and incessant calls using his megaphone for an independent counsel investigation of the origins of the virus. The US government has the ability to answer this question. To prevent a future pandemic we must know how this originated and hold those responsible if it is man-made accountable. All the circumstantial evidence which is only growing stronger continues to point in the direction of a man-made pandemic despite all the obfuscations and the misinformation campaign by Fauci Daszak & Co.

        • Fred says:


          Trump doesn’t need to do anything of the sort. An independent council answerable only to itself, staffed by ‘bi-partisan’ hacks the swamp is full of? No. He just needs to call it like he originally saw it, because even normies get it now.

  22. Sam says:

    Jun. ’20 I said @PeterDaszak was “patient 0 for misinformation” on SARS-CoV2 origin. A coverup was already apparent.

    A smoking gun connecting Covid to @EcoHealthNYC /WIV has now emerged. Will we ignore the glaring connection to our failing public health response via Fauci & Co.?


    Biologist Bret Weinstein was canceled by Big Tech for asking important questions and challenging the groupthink orthodoxy set in motion by highly conflicted Fauci Daszak & Co.

    This is why Daszak’s DARPA proposal is a real smoking gun.

    What a coincidence that the FCS in SARS2 is identical to the furin-cleavable peptide on the human epithelial sodium channel α-subunit..

    And that it is coded with the best codons for arginine (CGG) found in humans


    We report that SARS-CoV-2 has evolved a unique S1/S2 cleavage site, absent in any previous coronavirus sequenced, resulting in striking mimicry of an identical FURIN-cleavable peptide on the human epithelial sodium channel α-subunit (ENaC-α).


    This is precisely what Nobel laureate and Caltech president emeritus David Baltimore noted when saw the sequence. He too called the furin cleavage site with arginine codons as the smoking gun. Now we know that this is exactly what Daszak and the Bat Lady in Wuhan were cooking up, not because of our intel agency review but because of intrepid citizens working collaboratively together under the banner of DRASTIC.

    What he have here are the government’s of China and the US along with “The Science” in an Upton Sinclair matrix determined to coverup global genocide on one side and a few diligent souls working to unearth the truth on the other side.

  23. Aletheia in Athens says:

    @Eric Newhill,

    Based on the old motto “follow the money”, research on the “Covid Network”, especially the “German Global Health Hub”, where you can find how this “hub” was inaugurated just on July 2019, months before we could even hear about “Wuhan virus”, and including our usual suspects, like Drosten of the Charité Clinic. This is why after two months of the declared “pandemic” we could hear news about a “vaccine” being developed in Germany, to then stop hearing until their approval for EUA to be applied on all.

    You will find at the top, financing the whole operation effort, always, the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, proving that it is this foundation who, in practice, is governing the wordl right now..Of course, there are other foundations, NGOs, and organisms which collaborate with them for the same goal.

    Amongst the corporations which they finance and collaborate with, you can find these are related to control of e-learning, e-payements, e-medicine, and mass global vaccination. In fact, when they comment in what they collaborate with Pfizer, they state they have developed an “all in one vaccine” which provides anticonceptive durable effect…
    They also collaborate with corporations realted to crops. Thus, giving the idea they aspire to control everything related to human life and life on Earth.

    In the section dedicated to media, you can find all those “verification agencies” which decree what is true and what is fake, created by the same corporations, ONGs, and funds who are brainwashing the people´s brains through all these years and the whole pandemic.

    Link to the PDF of 170 pages included in this link of presentation…
    Warning: I tried to watch the PDF in my laptop, to find the huge trees of relations fall far the wide of my computer, oblying you, moreover, to increase de size to watch details. Then tried to watch it in mobile phone to find it is easier to appreciate the whole trees as a whole, although in tiny size, and augment whatever detail you may want to, even with more definition than in my old computer ( I say this for those with aging sight issues…)


    With this you can debunk totally this PeterHug arguments from “verification agencies” ( simply subagencies of the new “Ministry of Truth” ), who seems to want to give us the death hug, in any case…

  24. Aletheia in Athens says:

    Also, there is a letter by a doctor in charge of evaluating young pilots in the US Navy circulating the net, at least on Telegram, exposing worrying conclusions about the mRNA vaccines which, as the cases example she exposes, like that of the most fitting woman recruit she had witnessed in ages, resulting crippled for any physical activity, concluding that, since it falls on her responsability, she will be banning any pilot which took the “vaccine” from flying, the most young he/she could be, due the potential damage to not only piltos and aircrafts themeselves, but also civilian population in case of accident by indisposition during a flight , plus the fact that the aircrafts they pilot carry sometimes, as i nexercises, powerful destructive weapons….

    I will see whether I can find the letter to post it here…

  25. Aletheia in Athens says:

    This is the link to the affidavit by LTC. Theresa Long on effects of the mRNA vaccine on US Air Force pilots…


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