"Reaction to the joint press conference came swift and strong from other American Jewish organizational leaders, and far less positive than the ZOA’s Klein. “I’m not sure Trump understands the implications” of a one state solution, said Rabbi Jill Jacobs, executive director of T’ruah: the Rabbinic Call for Human Rights. “It is a very dangerous suggestion.”for Peace Now spokesman Ori Nir called the press conference “terrifying” and “a squandered opportunity” to “signal to Israelis, Palestinians, Americans and the world a clear commitment to peace.”It was a chance to “chart a constructive way forward for U.S.-Israel relations and for Israel’s future, for its security and its wellbeing as a democracy and a Jewish state,” Nir said. Instead, “the two leaders are not only depriving Israel of the very possibility of reaching peace but also undermining Israel's own future as a democracy and a Jewish state” when they discuss a one-state possibility. He added, “they are delivering a huge victory to extremists on both sides.” The Reform Movement’s Rabbi Rick Jacobs said he views Trump’s statements as “an abdication of the longtime, bipartisan support for a two-state solution.” Haaretz
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Well, pilgrims, I said a few days ago that it would be well to see the result of Natanyahu's visit before coming to a conclusion about what the Trump/Kushner approach to Israel/Palestine might be.
IMO Trump is going to challenge the long treasured shibboleths of the Zionist/AIPAC community in search of a creative path to peace.
The hard core Zionists know that a one state solution would be the end of the Zionist dream of a Jewish State in historic Palestine. If given actual equal rights of citizenship in such a country the Palestinians would fairly soon become a majority and the stronger power in a one state government. That is simply unacceptable to the Zionists. It would be the end of all their dreams.
Trump knows that and is evidently willing to "up the ante" to that level of leverage if Israel wants his support to get the best deal available to them, rather than the deal they wanted in which they would have completely dominate the situation.
Bibi is much threatened at home by corruption charges (evidently the Maureen McDonnell syndrome) and challenges from his Right. It seems that Trump went straight to his weaknesses.
It will be interesting to learn if Bibi survives his acquiescence and how much Zionist support Trump loses. pl
Colonel, I was amazed when I heard that ( one state soloution) from the president of US, everybody in world (including Trump and family) knows demography of a single state will not favor Israeli side and Palestinians like the Shia in Iraq will be the majority protesting for thier right against a minority elite goverment. So I think you are absolutely right Trump is back at aim high and negotiate down tactic.
From the NYT this past weekend,
“An Orthodox Jew, Mr. Kushner was instructed to protect Israel, remember the genocide and assure the survival of the Jewish people, those close to him say.
“He was educated at Jewish schools where second graders were expected to draw maps of Israel from memory and the West Bank was often referred to by its biblical names, Judea and Samaria, a practice that emphasizes Jewish claims to the land.”
As someone with a similar educational background to Kushner, I can say this is spot on. To the American Jewish community, the Jordan to the Mediterranean belongs to Israel, and — as the reference to “Judea and Samaria” implies — the Palestinians might as well have not existed (at least until the second intifada, which made them impossible to ignore).
What Bibi did masterfully was he created a “safe space” for the American Jewish community’s cognitive dissonance where, through an enormous and well organized lobbying apparatus, they could both ostensibly claim to support a “two state solution” while at the same time empowering the right, enabling the facts on the ground to develop in such a way that made two states impossible. At $1k-per-plate dinners on Fifth Avenue, Bibi could charm and throw yiddish around for his supporters like a true mocher as he justified his brutality on supposedly unwilling peace partners who refused “our right to exist,” and then he’d go back to his hardliners at home and tell them not to worry because “America is something that you can easily maneuver and move in the right direction” (below).
But no more. The self-styled “liberal” American Jews can only tolerate apartheid insofar as they can glibly blame it on the Palestinians or right-wing zealots and sweep their own culpability under the rug. Bibi, meanwhile, with the corruption investigation and whatnot, is at his weakest point that I can remember.
As far as I know, there is NO plan for what to do next. So if there’s a time to seize the issue it is now. IMO the least worst solution is one state consisting of two confederacies along the ’67 borders. But this would require honest brokers and a damn good salesman.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/11/us/politics/jared-kushner-israel.html?_r=0
https://youtu.be/tCyvzwBNxMg?t=25s
Do you think there is any chance that President Trump would like to see the Palestinians ‘find their way’ into Jordan, or have the Arab world take them on, so as to free up the West Bank?
I very much recommend reading Ofra Yeshuva-Lyth’s “Politically Incorrect. Why a Jewish State Is a Bad Idea”. One of the most thorough analyses of Israeli policies I have read so far.
We have some unique approaches by new people in the White House. Now we need much younger replacements for Abbas and Bibi who will have to live with their actions for the next 30 years to make a deal.
But isn’t the whole idea that a one state solution would not give Palestinians equal rights with the Jewish population?
Col. — My dislike of Bibi may exceed yours, but why do you keep spelling his last name “Natanyahu” rather than Netanyahu? Did he or his father change the family name from the former to the latter at some point for some reason, and you wish to point that out?
As for your “The hard core Zionists know that a one state solution would be the end of the Zionist dream of a Jewish State in historic Palestine. If given actual equal rights of citizenship in such a country the Palestinians would fairly soon become a majority and the stronger power in a one state government. That is simply unacceptable to the Zionists. It would be the end of all their dreams.” I’m afraid that the hardcore Zionists are all for their own grim versions of a one state solution, all of which would attempt to establish “a Jewish State in historic Palestine” more firmly that most of us could imagine. See for example this set of options,which are actually being proposed and entertained in Israel:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/opinion/a-settlers-view-of-israels-future.html
None of which may bode well for Bibi’s personal political survival. But, per the above piece, there’s no way the hardcore Zionists are thinking that a one state solution means that the Palestinians will be given full citizenship and will then prevail by demographic electoral weight.
Larry Kart
I don’t care how he spells his name in English. I am accustomed to dealing with English transliterations of Semitic words and a short vowel here or there doesn’t mean much. I agree that the “hard core Zionists” are hatching plans to screw the Palestinians. the point of my post is that Trump is an obstacle for him because he want some kind of grand deal. pl
Bill Herschel
If you think that you should ask the Palestinians. They favor a one state solution because it could never be a Jewish state for very long. pl
mauisurfer
OK. I am among the trivial minded and foolish. Why did you suddenly appear here? I was interviewed by Fisk a couple of times. He is more of an idiot than I am. pl
Col,
My own opinion is he will find many other opportunities for grand deals elsewhere and has deemed the Two State Sham as a viable path to resolving the real estate issue. He has only very recently been made aware of the sham’s true nature is all. I got the impression from watching them together yesterday, it struck of two men sharing a private joke. They seemed to share a smirk after say he declared his unhappiness about the settlements. Time will tell. I may have become a hopeless cynic on the matter.
Mark Logan
To me they looked like a business developer (Trump) gloating over yet nother fool who had bought his pitch. pl
I got the impression that he threw up his hands and announced he gives up and intends to leave it to Israel/Palestine to work out their issues.
I was not surprised; he is one of the few leaders in US who is willing to speak his mind about the reality of a given situation; be it domestic or foreign (sanders was another one.)
So he calls a spade a spade and admits that the two-state solution is dead.
This has been known for 16 years.
Only Arabs and weak-minded gullible people will find that disconcerting.
Arabs lost Palestine on the field of battle over several decades. They should have the decency to organize and go to war to reclaim it rather than running to US or Europe and beg, really beg, to please, oh please, give us back our Palestine.
That is not how the world works; you cannot save people from the consequences of their own actions.
On the other hand, the United States, both out of religious sentiment as well as for political gains created and nurtured this illusion that she could actually settle that war; the Lone Super Power, the Leader of the Free World, the Indispensable Nation etc.
She gained ephemeral things (in my opinion) but her leaders committed the same error as the Shah of Iran did; they assumed full responsibility for all and any actions of Israel and left no room for US to extricate herself from that religious war.
Trump likely understands all of this and is trying to get US out; but US cannot leave unscathed after 70 years of religious and political commitments, at enormous costs to herself, and quickly.
Trump has taken, in my opinion, the correct step in the right direction for the United States.
In line with the Colonel’s comments, here’s what the Angry Arab had to say: “In Arab social media, there is really cheering: Palestinians and Arabs (who–unlike Arab oil and gas correspondents in Western capitals don’t act at royal orders) were cheering the end of Oslo and the American shooting down of the two-state illusion. People are more than happy that Palestinian struggle can go back to where it was before Oslo: a struggle for the full liberation of every millimeter of Palestine and the establishment of one secular democratic state where Jews and Arabs can live in equality and where no religious identify of the state (be it Jewish or Muslim or Christian) will be allowed. This will be accompanied by full return of Palestinian refugees to their homes, and where the immigration to Palestine will be subject to the consent of the majority of the population (as it was envisioned after ten years by the McDonald White Paper). The official end of the two-state nonsolution, however, requires the dismantlement of the PA collaborationist authority…” http://angryarab.blogspot.com/2017/02/the-burial-of-oslo-and-end-of-two-state.html
For some time I thought that if Trump accepted the extreme Zionists demands that it would be be end of the Zionist state. Internal politics in Israel have for a long time been working against Israelis interest. These Israeli demands have deeply infiltrated US politics. In the last twenty years there has not been a major problem because the US has persisted in the two state solution fantasy in the face of Israeli determination to seize more and more territory in the West Bank.
Trump has finally agreed to the right wing Zionists demands. OK Israel, if you really want the West bank then so be it. This reminds me of the dog that keeps on chasing the car: What happens if he finally catches it? Well it looks like Trump has let the Israelis finally catch the car. Now WTF are they going to do with it?
Trump has done a positive service to kill the two state solution. Now Israelis, Palestinians and the US (yes the US,we are part of this problem) can now begin to work on a one state solution.
For those of us who seek a solution that includes justice for Palestinians then we will reject ethnic cleansing or apartheid solutions. One person, one vote is the only solution. Now how will that work out?
The two-state solution has been dead for a long time. The only reason it continued is that the Borg was unwilling to publicly admit it. Trump is unlike the others in that he speaks to the reality. This one reason why many dislike him because he doesn’t pander to their fiction.
The Likudniks believe they’ll get the one Jewish state and then slowly or abruptly expel the Arabs or make them live in enclosed bantustans.
The real question is what the Palestinians do as apartheid is imposed?
Jack
Yes the 2 state solution was never real, but the political issue in Israel now is that Netanyahu has publicly accepted its death thus exposing the Zionist fraud. pl
Col.,
I’m not a Ziionist, but in pragmatic terms there’s never gonna be a one-state solution. The whole point of Israel is that the Jews need a respite/refuge from the rest of the world. No way they are gonna give it up. See current policies of walls, immigration restrictions, religious preference for immigrants (inspirations, all, for Trump peeps in the US), etc. Given Arab Muslim treatment of minorities I think the Copts and Maronites should take more rather than less ideas from the Israelis. At least Israelis have a comfortable “home” (Tel Aviv) unlike the Levantine Christians.
As a former member of the borg (not an institutional player but a believer) the unwillingness to admit that the two state solution was a dead end was because we believed in it. I read an essay by Edward Said in the early 90s and I thought he was an “extremist”. It took me 10 years to realize he was a realist. I suspect most of the borg took longer, if at all, to realize it was a fantasy.
That is how progress is made I guess. Now the discussion will be whether they accept ethnic cleansing or justice for the Palestinians?
I think Trump may have stumbled into some thing that could finally focus the minds of the Israelis. But I have a hard time seeing it as a master plan.
“Donald Trump characteristically spoke of his ambition to seal a deal between Israel and the Palestinians. Also true to form, he made clear that he wasn’t familiar with the details, and wasn’t about to familiarize himself, either. ”
http://www.timesofisrael.com/allowing-trumps-talk-of-a-one-state-solution-to-go-unchallenged-netanyahu-fails-israel/
I have been reading the Israeli papers for years and Trumps speech with the exception of the 1SS part, sounded like it was written by Netanyahu. The reaction was quick with the three most important responses being the GCC saying there is no plan B to the 2SS and no peace deal with out it. Bibi saying he didn’t want to annex all those Arabs. And today the US rep at the UNSC contradicting Trump and saying the US stands fully behind the 2SS.
What Netanyahu has in mind is a Palestinian state run by the Israeli Military. So basically what we have now.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/while-refusing-to-endorse-two-state-solution-netanyahu-tells-trump-israel-will-not-annex-west-bank/
But Netayahu has been a dead man walking for a while now. The real leader of his coalition is Bennet who is banging the annexation drums hard and fast. And there are a lot of members of the coalition that are with him. His plan being annex the West Bank and then Jews would have the right to vote and Muslims wouldn’t. Problem solved. I believe that’s called short sighted thinking.
In some ways internal fighting to own rights, is (a step) easier than fighting to own an state..
BraveNewWorld
What would be a “plan” for you, a lay-down of how to create the universe in seven days? OK. First you destroy their smug assumptions then you negotiate with them. pl
esq
“the Jews need a respite/refuge from the rest of the world” No they do not. This is not 1939. The goyim do not hate the Jews in the US. Look at the positions they hold in the US. Look at the success they enjoy here. pl
mcohen
A warning of what? was it that the policy of the US might become a one state solution? This is the Palestinians’ wildest desire. pl
Quite amazing to see the president shatter the illusion of the Israeli government actually running things here in this country. It appears that at long last the dog might finally wag the tail when he wants to do it.
As an American of Jewish decent (though not a Jew – the rules forbid it), it is hard not to find this refreshing: “‘So I’m looking at two-state and one-state, and I like the one that both parties like,’ Trump said with an almost offhand air, emphasizing that for him the main aim was ‘to see a deal.'” Imagine that! Seeking a solution to a dispute that both actual participants in the dispute would find acceptable seems like a fine idea.
This is the perennial question heard in the Middle East:
“Why didn’t you give a piece of US or Europe to Zionists to set up their country there?”
The cynical answer: “Because we did not want them here.”
Dr. Puck: You have a wonderfully anodyne way of describing ethnic cleansing, which is a crime against humanity.
r Whitman: Mahmoud Abbas’s only utility is in showing that actually doing what successive US Administrations have requested guarantees the death of the Palestinian national project.
Col: They also know that Israeli citizenship is the only (albeit insufficient) protection against the violence of the Israeli State.
If I lived in East Jerusalem, I sure would seek Israeli citizenship, if only to protect my homestead.
esq: “Arab Muslim treatment of minorities”?
I call tell you from first-hand knowledge that my wife’s Palestinian Christian relatives (refugees) who live in Jordan are treated a hell of lot better by the Jordanians than the “democratic” Israelis treat her other relatives in East Jerusalem and in the West Bank.
Don’t you find it painfully obvious why Palestinian voices have disappeared from American television? The worse the Israelis treat them, the greater the cone of silence.
mcohen: Final warning…?
About what? How to disappear silently, or disappear loudly?
It appears, on its face, that Howard Stern was right when he said that all DT cares about is that people like him. When asked by the press, about his stance on this issue, he can easily say “I told you. I want what they want.” When asked by anyone who has any real skin in the game he can easily say “I want what you want.” While watching the press conference I couldn’t help but come away with the feeling that he Don’t Know/Don’t Care.
Yes, Sir, the Zionist fraud will now be exposed. And the complicity of the west in the perpetration of this fraud.
The real intent of the Zionist will come to the fore as their steady annexation and encirclement will have to have an end game. The de facto apartheid will have to get legitimized. It will be fascinating to watch the contortions.
And think about Jared Kushner, at 36, in the middle of these great negotiations and in the center of the great policy discussions in the White House.
http://www.kansas.com/news/politics-government/article132979114.html
Col. I believe your “The goyim do not hate the Jews in the US” comment is accurate, but may well be ephemeral. Remember the standing of many Jews in Imperial and Weimar Germany. All it took was a massive economic meltdown and a bit of coordinated response for the older, tribal narrative to reassert itself.
Given the prominence of Jews in American banking, and the persistent corruption and occasional financial disasters that have destroyed much of America’s middle and working classes, I wonder at what point there will be a rising up and shaking off of those who control our lives. “Cosmopolitanism” in the areas of trade, social mores and acceptance of “the other” is on the wane and at times like this, scapegoats become a useful commodity.
As regards the ‘one state solution,’ do you recall that Frederick Brown short story (The Weapon) that ends with — “He thought, only a madman would give a loaded revolver to an idiot.”
Please excuse off topic:
the renewed Russian Army Choir
http://theduran.com/alexandrov-choir-gives-first-performance-since-tragic-plane-crash/
The Shoah catastrophe befell Poland (and Romania) in much more sever extent than anywhere else in Europe.
Jews had been invited into Poland by the Tsar of Poland 800 years earlier and had prospered in Poland since.
The weakening of Christian Ethics and the spread of racialist doctrines of post-Enlightenment destroyed them.
Spot on. Speaking the plain truth is a rare commodity for the political class. I find it as refreshing as the purist glass of cold spring water.
@ Mark Logan
You may have your answer here :
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/02/17/logan-trump-israel-flynn-pressured-u-n-on-israel-vote-before-taking-office/
“Several hours before the landmark Dec. 23 vote at the United Nations — which eventually denounced Israeli settlements over a pointed U.S. abstention — the Trump transition team approached the State Department with an urgent request: hand over any cell phone numbers, emails, and other contacts of ambassadors and foreign ministers from the Security Council’s 15 member states. The request, which was described by a former State Department official, was rejected out of fear that it would be used to scuttle American diplomatic aims.”
snip
“The back-channel diplomacy coincided with a more public effort by then-President-elect Trump to press countries to vote against the measure, which declared Israel’s settlements an illegal threat to the prospects of a Middle East peace. A day before the vote, Trump issued a series of tweets displaying his disdain for the council’s plan.”
That is the one outcome that IMO will not happen – Israel depends far too much on trade with other countries (in particular in Europe) to be able to implement a nondemocratic Jewish state or actually annex the settlements. The resulting boycotts and embargoes would destroy their economy.
Bill Kristol provides a blurb on the back of the book!
Matthew,I have no doubt what you state is true.I have been told by Christian Palestinian friends ,people who were born and raised in Ramallah,that the Israelis treat the Palestinian Christians better than they treat the Palestinian Muslims.Do you know anything about this?
Beaver,
Aye, and Nikki Haley reenforced the Two State Sham yesterday. Yet, it’s a non-alternative fact that for a period Trump publicly advocated One State and that advocacy has allowed the Israeli right wing to push Bibi in that direction…and push him hard.
The ol’ switcheroo?? It’s an interesting question. 😉
A fascinating topic. Thank you.
The signs were visible to Israel Shamir before Christmas as demonstrated in the following article:
http://www.unz.com/ishamir/trump-sets-the-cat-among-the-jewish-pigeons/
Matthew – My niece works in the Israeli Ministry of Interior. Palestinian’s living in East Jerusalem theoretically can get Israeli citizenship. However, those applications are “round filed” in all but VIP situations. About 4% of East Jerusalem Palestinians have Israeli citizenship.If Israel took over the West Bank in a one state solution, there would be no automatic citizenship for Palestinians living there. But in theory, Israel would say they are eligible to apply for citizenship, to reduce the world cries of Apartheid. But the “slow walking” and “misplacing” such applications would mean very few Palestinians would gain citizenship.
Israel has a bill ready for the Knesset that removes the automatic convenance of citizenship by birth. It’s been prepared in anticipation of any move toward a one state solution. When kids reach age 13 they would eligible to apply for citizenship – breeze for Jewish kids but extremely difficult for Palestinians.
I understand that the Bedouin are Israeli citizens, and they’re still being ethnically cleansed.
John LeDell
Yes, but a lot of them have Israeli travel documents and an ID Card. How is that? Or are they UN travel documents? pl
Mark Logan
Once he gets to know Netanyahu better he will want to screw him and not the nice way. pl
U.N. said around 2009 that Gaza will be a place unfit/impossible for human beings to live by 2020, based on Israel overpumping the aquifer to draw salt water in, and lack of (bombed) sanitation facilities leading to open cess pits causing a profound breakdown in the human waste disposal system. Apparently this is still on target. All Bibi has to do is maintain the status quo for another couple of years; perhaps shut off the U.N. water or food trucks for a few weeks due to some imagined slight, although even this might not be necessary; Gazans mysteriously start dropping like flies, final solution, Gosh who knew, and no one’s the wiser.
I hope you are right, Colonel.
A couple of years ago I had the misfortune to read Hugh Thomas “Rivers of Gold”; amazed I was to learn how the Spanish campaigns in America were basically a Jewish enterprise. Listed as a consultant was a certain Binyamin Netanyahu with inputs from his father.
Currently Israel is a de facto Jewish supremacist state, with separate license plates, separate travel privileges, two sets of laws, two sets of court systems, separate land-owning rights/company-starting rights and settler sponsorship rights, etc. The system has stably continued for more than 60 years, with Israel’s allies America, Canada, and Micronesia blocking any and all attempts at reform at the U.N. How would this change if the territory were united under one country?
“esq” – this is head in the sand talk if ever I heard it:-
“The whole point of Israel is that the Jews need a respite/refuge from the rest of the world. No way they are gonna give it up”
Surrounded by tens of millions of Arabs who would be more than happy to visit on the Jews of Israel the same atrocities the Israelis have visited on the Palestinians? With further tens of millions who would look on with indifference or maybe help with the carnage?
Come on. Long term there can be no less suitable “refuge” if the present “We conquered it, we keep it” hard line is maintained. I’m no Zionist either but that doesn’t mean I want to see ethnic cleansing the other way. This is the time, when the Israelis still have overwhelming military superiority and still have more or less solid American support, for the Jews of Israel to go for a deal – any deal, that’s for them and the Palestinians to work out – that will ensure their long term future in the area. Unless they do that they haven’t got one.
Well, have a look on the history of Curaçao. It had a large and influential Jewish community which managed the largest hub for the slave trade from West Africa to Latin America, located on the island just 40 miles from Venezuela’s coast line.
Israel Palestine used to be covered quite extensively in the British press, I have been impressed how, for a few years now, reporting on the subject has gone completely. RT is perhaps the only channel that regularly covers the topic.
I can appreciate how Jews might want a safe haven, the reality is this has been achieved now with Israel firmly ensconced with a clear military and economic advantage over all its neighbours. The worry is with Israel’s demographics favouring the extremists the other side of the Zionist project is now what matters and this will only lead to more conflict and instability.
From what I’ve heard, they are given a blue ID, which sounds like a rough equivalent of a US green card. It gives them most but not all rights of a citizen, so I imagine it probably includes the privilege of getting a travel document. However, the Israeli government constantly seeks any and every excuse to strip the blue ID from Arabs. I know of someone who had his blue ID canceled due to him being in the US to pursue his studies.