The Pentagon, which recently promised to put employees through polygraph tests in an investigation into leaks of classified information, is now the source of its own leak. On March 15, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth shared detailed real-time information about a military strike and its aftermath in a group chat on Signal, a messaging app, that included several other top administration officials and — wait for it — Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic. Although defense officials have repeatedly stressed they are committed to being the “most transparent” in history, it is unlikely that this is what they meant.
Goldberg wrote on Monday that he was invited to the chat group earlier this month, and was privy to a March 15 message from Hegseth that included operational details of planned strikes against Houthi rebels in Yemen. Hegseth sent the group battle plans of the strike two hours before it occurred. He and CIA Director John L. Ratcliffe, who was also on the chat, appear to have also shared details of intelligence-collecting methods used before the strike.
It is not exactly clear why Goldberg was added to the group. Goldberg wrote that he received a connection request from National Security Advisor Michael Waltz on March 11, but no one on the group seemed to notice his presence until he voluntarily left it. The March 15 post from Hegseth provided operational details about how the U.S. military would attack the Houthis, including “information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing.” The good news is that keeping the chat secret was, apparently, on Hegseth’s mind during the exchanges. He texted the group that “I will do all we can to enforce 100% OPSEC,” and later wrote that “We are currently clean on OPSEC.”
National Security Council spokesman Brian Hughes indicated on Monday that Goldberg’s reporting is accurate. “At this time, the message thread that was reported appears to be authentic, and we are reviewing how an inadvertent number was added to the chain,” Hughes wrote in the statement to Task & Purpose. “The thread is a demonstration of the deep and thoughtful policy coordination between senior officials. The ongoing success of the Houthi operation demonstrates that there were no threats to our service members or our national security.”
OPSEC, or operational security, refers to not releasing any information that could compromise military operations or put troops in danger. It’s also a subject of numerous mind-numbing briefings and makes a frequent appearance in the comment section of stories on military news — often posted by someone who doesn’t fully grasp what OPSEC actually means.
Goldberg’s revelation comes after the New York Times first reported that Elon Musk, a top ally of President Donald Trump and head of the Department of Government Efficiency Team, would be briefed on the U.S. military’s war plans for China when he visited the Pentagon on March 21. Trump denied the story, and the New York Times subsequently reported that the planned briefing had been called off. Afterward, Hegseth’s chief of staff Joe Kasper announced an investigation that would refer people who leak classified national security to law enforcement agencies for criminal prosecution. “The use of polygraphs in the execution of this investigation will be in accordance with applicable law and policy,” Kasper wrote. It is unclear if the defense secretary will have to be subjected to a polygraph the next time he uses Signal.
https://taskandpurpose.com/news/houthi-atlantic-goldberg
Comment: These damned cellphones are going to be the death of us. Signal is a pretty secure messaging app using end to end encryption, but that makes no difference if you don’t know who’s connected to the encrypted chat. Plus, there’s no way Signal is approved for secret or top secret communications. This incident was lazy and careless.
In my day, there were STU-III encrypted phones for secure communications. Towards the end of my time in DIA, I learned of STU-III cell phones. I never used them. They seemed too easy to misplace or lose. These were replaced by the STE which uses crypto cards rather than the old STY-III little black keys. I was pretty surprised to learn that certain key DIA officers were allowed to have a STU-III at home, but the key was carried on the person at all times. I’m sure presidential cabinet members did the same. But, apparently, that’s not convenient enough today. These dainty snowflakes have to use their cellphones. So we’ve learned nothing since Hillary Clinton.
Beyond being an egregious security breach, this incident highlights a few other point about Trump’s administration. They really don’t like Europe and seem to be in a snit because crushing the Houthi threat to shipping will help Europe. The VP was upset that this would help Europe and that would be inconsistent with the President’s wishes. They want to extract some kind of remuneration from Europe. I really can’t see us staying in NATO.
The most disconcerting revelation is how disconnected the President is from things. After the story came out, Trump was asked for his reaction. He seemed clueless. Why wasn’t he immediately informed of the breach as soon as the story broke? A similar clueless reaction occurred after the story about Musk and the China war plan briefing broke. Initially I figured that the NYT got it wrong, but subsequent details indicate that such a briefing was indeed scheduled. Trump rightly thought that such a briefing to a businessman with strong ties to China was a terrible idea. Who scheduled that briefing in the first place? Hegseth? Who the hell is in charge in the White House?
TTG
Hilary used a private email server for years. Then used bleachbit and other methods to destroy the evidence.
Goldberg, the Atlantic source for jusch deep state narrativegenerating stories is just the type of person to purposely put on a group chat that does not release any actual classified information but will ensure the message gets out to the other 5 eyes “allies”, especially the one’s who aided Steele’s fabrication used to hobble Trump’s 1st term and whomaided the fabrication of evidence to create predicate to monitor George Popadopolous’ communications, and by extension Trump’s.
European nations were not invited to the conversation is the actual story here. The rest is just the storm und drang of the borg bemoaning their expulsion from the hollowed halls where color revolutions were planned and executed
Fred,
We are taking unilateral military action against the Houthis. There’s no need to include Europeans in a discussion on such unilateral actions, especially in a Signal chat. There was no need to include the editor of the Atlantic on that chat, either.
Only a week ago, the Pentagon put out a written warning that Signal was not to be used for official DoD business. Now we have Gabbard testifying under oath to Congress this morning that such use is perfectly legal and normal. I guess she didn’t get the memo.
TTG,
So all the subordinates at DODgot told not to use that? Sounds like internal IT is compromis3d and that sure cut out lots of devices. The FBI just arrested 3 service members for spying for China.
https://www.newsweek.com/us-army-soldiers-arrested-spying-china-2041000
The Atlantic editor was included because they knew he would leak and lie. Europe’s trade route is at risk, not ours. We shouldn’t be bombing anyone there. Let them fix their own mess. However, look at Congress and who is owned by whom and you’ll understand why some things there have to happen so we can get change here.
Fred,
The FBI arrested three servicemen for spying for China. What has that got to do with cabinet members discussing strike packages over Signal? You’re just trying to distract everyone from the subject at hand.
Typical Fred alibi…”Oh, the other side did it”
What? Fred you say no classified info release via Signal?
Just…..days beforehand, a detailed operation plan, including targets, the weapons we were going to be using, attack sequences, and timing.
Al,
That’s right al. Goldberg lied, just like before. Now go back And read up on Biden approving use of Signal ap while in office. Then figure out how many IT people handling those devices got fired and how many still there are “resistance ” and quite willing to duplicate devices and/or access.
Fred,
Goldberg lied?
“A spokesperson for the National Security Council, Brian Hughes, confirmed the authenticity of the group chat to which Jeffrey Goldberg, editor-in-chief of The Atlantic, was inadvertently added.”
Federal employees are allowed to use Signal, just not for most government business, especially any “non-public official information.”
“There was a memo in 2023 obtained by NPR warning of using Signal for using any non-public official information. The 2023 DoD memo prohibited use of mobile applications for even “controlled unclassified information,” which is many degrees less important than information about on-going military operations. There’s almost no precedent for the heads of Defense, State, Intelligence and National Security to be sharing such sensitive military intelligence in a forum that was known to be unsecured.”
TTG,
The Chat, not the contents thereof, were confirmed.
As to “accidentally ” added, I’m reliably informed on the internet that something went Wong
and I should look up the connection to Covington and Burling, and Orange Man cutting off the firms security clearances.
https://x.com/listen_2learn/status/1904551173488586788
Fred,
It does appear Waltz’s deputy, Alex Wong, may have set the chat up. There’s nothing nefarious about him. He’s conservative Republican and has been with Waltz on the Trump team since last November.
“My deputy Alex Wong is pulling together a tiger team at deputies/agency Chief of Staff level following up from the meeting in the Sit Room this morning for action items and will be sending that out later this evening.”
2007-2009: Bush State Department “advisor” for Iraq
2012: Foreign policy director for the Romney-Ryan campaign
2015-2017: Foreign policy advisor for Sen. Tom Cotton (R-AR)
2017-2021: Deputy Assistant Secretary in the Trump/Pompeo State Department
2021-2024: Hudson Institute
TTG,
Waltz got played by either Wong and/or Goldberg. Goldberg probably passed a contact number with an alias and Wong didn’t check it out (or was in on it). Waltz should have double checked everyone included in the chat group; sloppy on his part. Goldberg is a rabid anti-Trump liar from way back; no way he would have been included deliberately. Actually, sloppy on everyone involved to not view and vet who is a group member. I would. I do every time there is a group chat type scenario.
That said, I see no classified material exposed. It was all vague and much of it referring to completed missions.
This is all just a faux outrage lashing out by the open border, islamic terrorist loving, socialists who find themselves out of political mojo and at the short end of the polls (aka democrats)
Eric Newhill,
How Goldberg was invited to the Signal chat group is still a mystery. We’ll probably learn before long. Yes, it was sloppy on the whole group’s part since it ran for days without an adequate check by anyone.
Hegseth’s announcing when what planes would launch and time of strikes TWO HOURS before the strike is classified TS. Those planes could only launch from the Harry Truman. Release of that information two hours before the strike could have given the Houthis information to mount an air defense and endanger those pilots. Of course post strike, that info is no longer classified.
TTG,
Yep, I just saw that part about the fast movers taking off in two hours. Agree. That is TS. Very bad to let that out to Golberg (or any non-cleared group members). If you’re going to be discussing such details, then you better be damn sure who is in the group.
I have thought since the nomination for the position that Hegseth is not a good choice. He topped out as a platoon leader (if I’m not mistaken). He has also displayed emotional and general immaturity since then. I get having someone as Sec Def who can relate to the grunts and isn’t too far removed and tainted by all the compromises and corruption in which former flag officers are drenched, but, IMO, there were better choices. I’ve been watching the guy to see when he’d crack. Maybe it hasn’t taken long, I don’t know much about Waltz.
Ultimately, letting a scum POS bag like Goldberg into the chat was amateur. That said, par for the course for the dimwits that populate DC politics. I’m sure that events that transpired during the Biden admin are far worse. Only we won’t learn of those due to the political leanings of the press, spooks and other members of the rats’ nets. Not that it’s an excuse for the Trump admin. blundering. They should be fully aware that the rats are out to get them and to expect dirty tricks everywhere, all the time. If I were Trump, I keep them on, this time, with a stern warning to be more careful.
You guys, on the left, should be less happy to gloat over indiscretions and less into divisive gotcha games, calling for peoples’ heads, etc.
Also, it sounds like some damn goat screwing pirate terrorists got lit up in the attack. Excellent. Those Houthis have killed a heck of a lot of Yemenis directly and through bad policies. You lefties should be happy when they are sent to goat screwer paradise. Why you have sympathy for them escapes me entirely. Bad look for you. Ditto Hamas.
Btw, I see that Gazans are beginning to turn on Hamas. Inflicting destruction on the Gazans for their support of Hamas terrorism is beginning to pay off. Maybe someday the Gazans/Palestinians can learn that terrorism doesn’t pay and there are better ways to achieve a good life.
Eric Newhill,
Don’t get me wrong. I’m glad we’re hitting the Houthis hard. They’re not defending themselves or Yemen with these attacks on shipping. They’re the aggressor and should be slapped down. OTOH, I don’t mind them kicking the Saudis out of their territory. In that case the Saudis are the ones needing to be slapped down.
TTG,
Sigh, yes the Saudis are all screwed up too. Agree, the Houthis are aggressors for the sake of being aggressors. Sheesh, read their damn flag. Too many lefties – being totally delusional – see the “Houthi cause” as some kind of social justice campaign. Antisemites/antisocial types just love it at face value.
All of these backwards, tin horn, homicidal, sunni and shia fundamentalist muslims need to be slapped down, often; as well as expelled from civilized countries where daffy fools, wearing rose colored glasses, make excuses for them out of the self-hate that spoiled, over-protected brats often experience.
Eric Newhill,
When I was first assigned to DIA, I was the desk officer for the Arabian Penninsula, including Yemen. I was told that I would get to see what life in the Middle Ages was like when I visited Yemen. They were right.
OTOH, I worked with some fine muslims in Special Forces and in a special mission unit, muslims I trusted with my life. Our Robin Sage exercise coincided with Ramadan. It was interesting watching muslims from Tunisia and Malaysia on my team observe both the fasting and iftar during the rigorous training.
My point is that lumping all muslims in with the worst of the jihadis is foolish and just flat wrong.
TTG,
How quick you forget LTC Vindman. Just another junior deep state operative exposed. No surprise to anyone not on the bluesky group chat
Fred,
LTC Vindman blew the whistle on the attempt to shakedown Zelenskiy for political gain and using the withholding of military aid in the attempt. The shakedown is not the crime. That’s hardball international relations. Doing it for personal political gain is what required someone to blow the whistle.
Yes, TTG, sure, we don’t want to lump all muslims together. That would be unenlightened. On that note, many nazis never killed a Jew and some were pretty good guys who actually came to the states after the war and helped us with rocket and jet propulsion programs. We should not lump all nazis into a group condemnation.
Eric Newhill,
Why not? Werner von Braun can certainly be condemned for his contributions to the nazi war machine. The Germans acquiescence to the rise of Hitler should also be condemned. That doesn’t mean they should be killed on sight, maybe just reminded of the Holocaust from time to time.
Fred,
I write software for a living and I have watched as the rules we are supposed to follow for developing and provisioning software have gotten tighter and tighter, to the point where pretty much nobody in the industry is actually obeying them.
Upper management knows – they give us a nod and a wink and tell us to give the auditors the right answers and to meet our deadlines. If we don’t meet our deadlines we pay a price, if we quietly skirt some security rules everything goes fine 99.999% of the time.
This is a big problem everywhere and the problem only gets worse every year. We keep known vulnerabilities in the software we use (like iMessage and Safari not running under Mandatory Access Control and AES256 using a 128 bit blocksize) so we can hack our adversaries and then try to make up for it with unwieldy and unusable security rules that everyone in the trenches know are not actually being obeyed.
There is no glory in defense, all of the glory is in offense.
DoD can make pronouncements all day long but security has to be usable to be used.
Michael Waltz was in Moscow when this Signal was going on. I am sure the GRU was also attending.
mike,
No, it wasn’t Waltz. It was Trump’s special envoy to the Middle East, Steve Witcoff, who was in Moscow for the group chat.
We’ve been bombing the Houthis for decades with no fair warnings. It didn’t work. Now the pearl clutching starts. Nonsense. Nobody is winning a war dropping bombs unless it’s a nuke.
The better course of action is force Israel to stop. When they stop the Houthis stop which they did until Israel broke the agreement so it started again. Want them to stop? Cut off Bibi. It will stop.
babelthuap,
I happen to agree with you that cutting off Bibi would be a good move, but doing that would hamper Trump’s plan to create a Riviera in Gaza.
They really don’t like Europe and seem to be in a snit because crushing the Houthi threat to shipping will help Europe.
Sounds like classic Trump. There are so many stories of him stiffing hired work, either construction workers, or more recently rally bills and promised USAID payments. Extortion sounds like a shoe-in.
Anyway. Has Europe thanked whoever is in charge?
Lesly,
Europe isn’t hired help nor are any countries there members of The United States of America. They can use their own navies to defend their sea routes.
Fred,
I will go ahead and say it since nobody else is saying it – those sea routes also serve Israel and the US is Israel’s bitch.
James,
Good for you. You love some islamic terrorists and pirates. Lots of soft in the head thinking like that around year since Col Lang’s passing.
Eric – the Colonel was very much on home ground in MENA and knew a huge cast of actors there, going right back to Pasha Glubb and right up to the present. He put some time in in Israel and was impressed neither with the way the Palestinians were treated nor with the soldierly qualities of the IDF.
He termed the US foreign policy establishment the “Borg” and disapproved of American and therefore Western foreign policy in the ME.
The essay on the Iraq war, “Drinking the Koolaid”, made his views clear enough.
I think I myself was guilty of “soft in the head thinking”, very much so, when believing the new American administration would put a stop to what’s happening in Gaza right now. I doubt the Colonel would have been similarly gullible.
As for the leak to the Atlantic, I read the transcript in Newsweek. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss, I thought as I read it. These people are as bad, as immersed in their own solipsistic little world, as was the Biden administration. The electoral and political pressures on the new administration are very great. That does not excuse the jubilant celebrations as yet more people are bombed to hell in pursuance of an impracticable and self-harming foreign policy.
And self-harming it is. It’s as if the United States, in this region, is deliberately destroying its own diplomatic and moral credibility in the eyes of most of the world. Destroying the diplomatic and moral credibility of the West in fact, since we in Europe have tamely gone along with and often assisted in what the US is doing in the ME.
Have you not noticed that the major powers outside the West are now holding back when it comes to seeking an input towards a solution of the Ukrainian war?
That is not because they have suddenly become uninterested, or no longer have their own interests to pursue when it comes to a settlement of that war. It is because they now understand that when dealing with the West they’re not in normal diplomatic territory any more. They’re in mad dog territory and must simply step back and leave the Russians to deal with the mad dog as they see fit.
It’s as bad as that, Eric. Most in the States, immersed as they are in their own turbulent domestic politics, have no idea of how it all looks to those outside the West and as far as I can see, as that transcript itself vividly demonstrates, don’t give a damn how it all looks anyway. Most in the States are passionately debating this leak solely in terms of the breach of security it represents, seizing upon the breach of security as ammunition in the political infighting they’re engaged in. All that’s trivial. It’s not the breach of security so much that matters, it’s the attitude that breach reveals!
And that demonstrates that the change of administration has not changed underlying attitudes. Those are still those of the Biden era. American and therefore Western foreign policy in the Middle East, a policy that the Colonel deprecated so often and so forcefully, is still as loutish and self-destructive as ever. One does not have to be “soft in the head” to see that. One has to be very soft in the head indeed to fail to see it.
Eric – Glubb Pasha. Don’t know how I got it wrong but I did.
Interesting man. I think a great one. A brief article compares him with another mover and shaker in Mandate Palestine:-
https://www.thearticle.com/orde-wingate-glubb-pasha-and-the-origins-of-israel
As for Wingate, he was OK in Abyssinia but opinions on the Chindits are mixed.
In Palestine he surpassed himself. He was particularly effective when conducting operations against unarmed civilians, setting standards generally for the IDF that have often been equalled since but seldom exceeded. Wiki:-
“In June 1938, the new British commander, General Haining, gave his permission to create the Special Night Squads (SNSs), armed groups formed of British and Haganah volunteers. The Jewish Agency helped pay salaries and other costs of the Haganah personnel. The SNSs were regarded as “well-oiled killing machines”,[3] while another British official called them “just thuggery really”.[33]
Wingate trained, commanded and accompanied them on their patrols. The units frequently ambushed Arab saboteurs who attacked oil pipelines of the Iraq Petroleum Company, raiding border villages the attackers had used as bases.
In these raids, Wingate’s men sometimes imposed severe collective punishments on the villagers. This included killing innocent Arabs who happened to be in the village but were not involved in blowing up the pipeline.[33] In another instance, the SNS went into a village, lined up all the male villagers and shot every eighth man.[34]
These methods were criticised by Zionist leaders as well as Wingate’s British superiors. Israeli historian Yoram Kaniuk wrote about Wingate’s brutality.
The operations came more frequently and became more ruthless. The Arabs complained to the British about Wingate’s brutality and harsh punitive methods. Even members of the field squads complained… that during the raids on Bedouin encampments Wingate would behave with extreme viciousness and fire mercilessly.
Wingate believed in the principle of surprise in punishment, which was designed to confine the gangs to their villages. More than once he had lined rioters up in a row and shot them in cold blood. Wingate did not try to justify himself; weapons and war cannot be pure.[35][36]
Wingate employed various forms of torture against the Arabs, some non-lethal.[37] Wingate would force sand into villagers’ mouths until they vomited.[38] In one case, when Arab saboteurs had caused an oil leak, he took all the men from an Arab village and threw them into a pool of crude oil.[39]
Wingate disliked Arabs, once shouting at Haganah fighters after a June 1938 attack on a village on the border between Mandatory Palestine and Lebanon, “I think you are all totally ignorant in your Ramat Yochanan [the training base for the Haganah] since you do not even know the elementary use of bayonets when attacking dirty Arabs: how can you put your left foot in front?”[a] But the brutal tactics proved effective in quelling the uprising, and Wingate was awarded the DSO in 1938.
In September 1938, after a rebel mine killed the Jewish leader of Ein Harod settlement, Chaim Sturman, Wingate let out a “cry, more a scream than an order” and carried out a reprisal operation on the Arab quarter of Beisan, near the explosion. He ordered “the killing of every Arab discovered in the vicinity of the raid.”[36]
“‘Everybody into the cars!’ … . We grabbed our rifles and within a few seconds were all in the cars. Without any plan of action or preparation, with Wingate at our head, we entered the Arab part of Beit Shean, which swarmed with gang members, and began to beat and trample anyone in our path. Wingate himself went out of control, entering stores and destroying whatever was in them. An hour later we returned to Ein Harod.”[36]
However, his deepening direct political involvement with the Zionist cause and an incident where he spoke publicly in favour of the formation of a Jewish state during his leave in Britain, caused his superiors in Palestine to remove him from command. Wingate was so deeply associated with political causes in Palestine that his superiors considered him compromised as an intelligence officer in the country. He was promoting his own agenda rather than that of the army or the government. In May 1939, he was transferred to Britain.
Wingate became a hero of the Yishuv (the Jewish Community), and was loved by leaders such as Zvi Brenner and Moshe Dayan, who trained under him and claimed that Wingate had “taught us everything we know.”[41]
One can only wonder to what heights Wingate could have risen to had he had 2000lb bombs at his disposal. Though his spiritual heirs would not entirely have disappointed him.
James,
Has anyone seen Jared or Ivanka around Trump 47? I think that barking dog bit off more than it could chew. Read up on the JFK files. Mafia members who were Jewish? How did that get buried from common knowledge (not the assassination part) for years…..
when something isn’t to my liking and I don’t have the information or smarts to understand it, I always fall back to blaming the Jews. It’s always the Jews behind the ugliness in the world.
But don’t you dare criticize muslims, you ignorant racist, nazi bigot.
Says every leftist (and more than a few rightests) I’ve ever met.
Interesting Gabbard confusion in Senate testimony…………..
Sen. Angus King had Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard’s head spinning in quick fashion after she at first claimed no classified intelligence was contained in the “Signal” group chat and then immediately said she had no knowledge of the classifications.
KING: The secretary put into this group text a detailed operation plan, including targets, the weapons we were going to be using, attack sequences, and timing.
And yet you’ve testified that nothing in that chain was classified. Wouldn’t that be classified? What if that had been made public that morning before the attack took place?
GABBARD: Senator, I can attest to the fact that there were no classified or intelligence equities that were included in that chat group at any time.
KING: So the attack sequencing and timing and weapons and targets, you don’t consider to should have been classified?
GABBARD:I defer to the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council on that question.
KING: Well you’re the head of the intelligence community. You’re supposed to know about classifications.
The DNI should know what is and what isn’t classified information. To pass the buck to others shows Gabbard’s incompetence. The DNI can’t first say nothing was classified in the group chat and then when called out about it deferred to the Secretary of Defense and the national security advisor over what is and isn’t classified.
Trump and his Trumpite nitwits have been “loose lips” over and over. Not just Trump secreting classified docs next to toilet, but way back to this:
‘Horrified’ Israeli intel officials ‘were shouting at US counterparts’ over Trump leak
Foreign Policy reports tense meetings between sides after president revealed classified info to Russians
The Times of Israel
https://www.timesofisrael.com › horrified-israeli-intel-o…
May 20, 2017 — US President Donald Trump’s reported sharing of a highly classified Israeli tip with Russia led to incredibly tense meetings between Israeli and American …
What “clown car” Trump has assembled for national security….going off the cliff fast!
“KING: So the attack sequencing and timing and weapons and targets, you don’t consider to should have been classified?”
Hello al,
there is a difference between “sources and methods”, the purview of the IC,
and operational plans, the purview of DoD.
It is entirely reasonable that DNI Gabbard deferred to DoD on the classification level of the latter.
Sounds reasonable to me, anything but part of “a clown car.”
Keith,
The whole context says it’s a clown car.
“GABBARD: Senator, I can attest to the fact that there were no classified or intelligence equities that were included in that chat group at any time.
KING: So the attack sequencing and timing and weapons and targets, you don’t consider to should have been classified?
GABBARD:I defer to the Secretary of Defense, the National Security Council on that question.
KING: Well you’re the head of the intelligence community. You’re supposed to know about classifications.”
Obviously, Gabbard tried to pass the buck after lying and was called out by King.
We don’t actually know what operational info was discussed (what has been revealed seems to me pretty high level and not down in the weeds of targeting). But agree that DNI is not responsible as classification authority.
That said, one of my wife’s jobs was running the message center and lans for the Joint Staff, which also included the SecDef front office. She’s kind of amazed at the lack of security, but notes it goes back to Hillery and Obama.
As an aside, her directorate controlled the parking passes for Pentagon parking for the Joint Staff, and as a 24/7 operation her office also administered it. She had parking in Pentagon south parking, which if you are familiar with that area is really hard to get. I was stationed in a NAVAIR office (Crystal City Gateway #4) at the time so could car pool with her.
scott s,
At that level, everyone works in an open storage SCIF. It’s pretty unnerving to anyone used to locking everything up in safes and being careful about conversations. Most of these people never had to live a cover 24/7 or conduct counter-surveillance even on days off.
TTG,
Politicians are a-holes who do whatever they want to do. That is the personality type attracted to a world of running your mouth, compromising values and ethics and insider trading, for a living. They quickly develop a god complex upon achieving office – or more likely, they simply allow their temporality suppressed extreme egocentrism to express once they have attained to power. 99% of them. Left, right and center on the political spectrum. The ones who’s alleged policies you like and the ones who’s alleged policies I like.
Of course they become careless. They’re full of themselves and unaccountable. They believe there’s no situation they can’t BS and wheel and deal their way out of, and the vast majority of the time, they’re right.
I found it arresting that when “S M,” who I presume is Stephen Miller, steps in with “As I heard it, the president was clear,” everybody shuts up and moves on. Guy is just the deputy chief of staff and I believe Susie Wiles was on the call. Of course Miller’s power in the administration is well known, but…wow.
Also of note: Vance saying “I am not sure the president is aware how inconsistent this is with his message on Europe right now.” He just said that Trump doesn’t know what he’s doing. Also no surprise, but coming from Vance in this context, interesting.
I think it’s possible Trump did know and was lying. Or his people just let the day go by without telling him this tidbit of information. Either way a new low.
Likely Trump more interested in setting up next tee time!
Since various Trumpites have now testified under oath that no classified information was included in the Signal flap, can Goldberg now release his copy of Signal commentary?
Per Axios:
“No classified material”: Trump officials all but dare The Atlantic to release texts
“…White House press secretary Karoline Leavitt reiterated that denial Tuesday and added that “no classified material was sent to the thread” — slamming Goldberg as a journalist known for “sensationalist spin.”
CIA director John Ratcliffe and Director of National Intelligence Tulsi Gabbard both testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee Tuesday that “no classified material” was shared in the Signal chat….”
I don’t think anyone should be surprised. It was obvious from the beginning that many of Trump’s picks were incompetent and this is probably just the beginning of consequences. To have it happen regarding national security is even worse, as is having this for a long time still.
Lars,
I would not have considered Waltz to be incompetent or inexperienced. Even Ratcliffe isn’t exactly a newbie. He did do a stint as DNI.
According to reports, it was Waltz who included Goldberg in the chat, so I consider that incompetent. Regarding Ratcliffe, my main concern is whether his ideology is crowding out his common sense, which is a concern and happens all to often. But why stop there? We still have Tulsi in the mix and JD Vance and then there is the Big Guy himself, who seemed unaware that there was a problem.
Lars,
I wouldn’t have considered Mike Waltz incompetent or inexperienced. Even Ratcliffe already did a stint as DNI. He should have also known better.
TTG,
And Rubio, who was also in the chat, was Chair of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence.
Musk visits NSA:
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/03/13/elon-musk-nsa-visit-00003020
The fact that these bozos used a phone message app to chat about war plans (target, timing, weapons, etc.) told us this is a bunch of amateurs and idiots.
It does not matter how secure Signal app is. Classified info must be on secure devices. Typing out or storing classified info in plain text on any insecure device is a security breach.
TonyL,
Your usual self-unaware, politically motivated “outrage” being noted, you are actually probably aware that there really are no “secure devices” if we’re talking about cell phones. That said, the app is encrypted and seems to be pretty secure as far as these go. No one scooped the signal or “hacked” in. Somehow, using some very analogue method, the scumbag Goldberg, was allowed into the group. The app itself does not represent a security breach, as you want it to. It’s use in govt is ubiquitous and spans administrations.
Eric Newhill,
You’re making definitive statements about something you know nothing about. I’m tired of explaining things that I’m sure you will refuse to understand. You are a smart guy but like many other MAGAs in the cult of Trump, you are ignorant and proud of it.
See TTG posts in this thread about what are classified info, and what is OPSEC.
TonyL,
The Signal app was inherited from the Biden admin.
Once again, it is relatively secure (though I would not have my team using it). You tell me, how are people to use their phones for these discussions? What app would recommend? Why is it better?
And Goldberg didn’t hack into the app. He was added to the group, somehow.
I understand opec better than you might think I do. I agree w/ TTG that stupid cell phones and similar tech will be the death of us all. I don’t use my cell phone for anything except friendly high level convos. I don’t bank online or anything else like that. However, in our modern world people are accustomed to living their lives digitally. There is a good chance that one day everyone will be very sorry that they did. It’s dangerous laziness and convenience and a lot of it is unavoidable because the infrastructure has moved in that direction.
In Lawfare today:
The administration is playing a dirty game of chicken here. They are betting that Goldberg and the Atlantic’s staff are sufficiently responsible that the administration officials can lie with impunity to the Senate Intelligence Committee knowing that Goldberg is sitting on the documents that will prove it, and that he will not release the material because he knows it should be protected from public view.
Good comment. What really fascinates me about this is indeed “Goldies” presence in matters. Reliably pro Israel, a reasonably good writer & the author of “The Obama Doctrine”, no less:
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/04/the-obama-doctrine/471525/
Al,
The Atlantic has called the bluff.
NY Times:
“The Atlantic Publishes Transcript of Group Chat as Criticism Mounts Over Leak
According to the texts, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth posted the time that American fighter jets would take off for strikes on Yemen in the Signal chat…”
I guess some in this Trump’s admin group chat clusterfck was deemed to be not neocon enough for The Atlantic.
Politico:
two high-level White House aides have floated the idea that Waltz should resign in order to prevent the president from being put in a “bad position.”
… two high-level White House aides have floated the idea that Waltz should resign in order to prevent the president from being put in a “bad position”.
“It was reckless not to check who was on the thread. It was reckless to be having that conversation on Signal. You can’t have recklessness as the national security adviser,” the official said.
A person close to the White House was even more blunt: “Everyone in the White House can agree on one thing: Mike Waltz is a f___ing idiot.”
The true import of the Signal thread is what it tells us about the quality of reasoning by the participants. These guys are all really smart – smarter than you. Whether they are wise is another matter. Even a dumb person who reasons correctly from 3 true things may be wiser than a smart person who knows 100 true things.
The impression I got from their hi-fiving and back-slapping after the bombs started dropping is that the participants are a bunch of sociopaths with a juvenile mindset.
I suppose that counts as “really smart” in some quarters, but it doesn’t impress me.
YR,
“We came, we saw, he died….cackle cackle cackle”
As I keep saying (using my tough old Syrian/Armenian grandmother’s favorite political commentary), They’re all snots from the same nose. Left nostril or right nostril, it makes no difference. Same nose.
Mostly only shallow disturbed people seek employment where they go “blah blah blah BS BS BS” for a living, officially for fairly low pay. They are attracted to the lack of accountability and the back room deals. Of course they’re immature and often unserious.
The one gratifying aspect of this affair is that JD Vance comes across as a very smart and canny (the two don’t always go together) operator.
He is sceptical of using force to solve a political problem, and he asks why it has to be the US mitary that does this when hardly any US trade transits the Red Sea.
Those are excellent questions to which he receives inadequate responses.
But even further, having voiced those concerns he shows that he is a team player: the consensus is that the USA should do this, and he isn’t going to die on a hill over the Houthis.
To my mind he comes out looking better than anyone else: an asset in a cabinet of mediocrities.
He’ll make a good President in four year’s time.
If Trump is the standard, it would not be all that hard to improve, but I think what we learned about Vance is that he is clueless about how interconnected the global supply chains are. He may also have added a few sales of the new red Greenland hats that says: Make America Go Away.
Yeah, Right,
JD is far from dumb but for the VP (along with the Secretary of Defense and the deputy chief of staff) to be dumping on our allies and discussing how to shake them down while communicating on a commercial app seems neither smart nor canny, since apart from anything else it will only confirm the impression that this Administration hates our friends and is oddly tolerant of our rivals.
Also Vance’s numbers are wrong and Waltz has to correct him:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14538953/entire-leaked-signal-group-chat-yemen-war-plans-air-strikes.html
Yeah, Right….By 2028 when Trump goes down as the worst President of the 21st Century, he will take Vance down with him.
Recall Trump’s first term ratings: at his point he was at 45-47% (same as now) and dropped to 34% by end of term. Not much difference in him to be expected.
Now this has to be completely ridiculous by Trump!
Axios: Trump says compensation fund being discussed for pardoned Jan. 6 rioters
https://www.axios.com/2025/03/26/trump-jan-6-rioters-compensation-fund-discussions
At a time Trump/Musk are laying off govt staff willy-nilly, they are considering shelling out money for these criminals??????
al,
Sue and settle? That’s a fine democrat tradition.
The Signal chat thread doesn’t disclose any classified or sensitive information.
drifter,
Now that the strike is over, the timing of the attack is not classified. The timing of the attack by what aircraft two hours before the strike was classified.
So you concede that the information is not classified. And you can’t prove, or even make a plausible argument, that it was “disclosed” in some primordial period when it was classified.
drifter,
The info was classified TS when it was released to an unauthorized recipient, Goldberg, and anybody else who might have penetrated those cell phones. Goldberg released the messages and the timeline now that the info is unclassified. He showed better OPSEC than Hegseth.
TTG,
Who said it was classified? Goldberg? Does an defense secretary have the ability to decide who can receive such information or only subordinates….
Fred,
The DoD classification guide and the CENTCOM guide states that information is classified. The DoD guide specifically states it is TS information.
Yamamoto was another that thought his OPSEC was golden.
https://bsky.app/profile/peter-b-c.bsky.social/post/3llctv7papc25
Trump’s team of bozos is going to cost a lot of American lives.
Leith,
More than Biden did? More than Obama/Clinton?
We’ll see.
I tire of political in-fighting among Americans. Just saying that in case your handlers are assessing responses to your comments.
A serious mistake was made by Trump admin guys. It was forced on them, but that’s not excuse for the Trump admin, though it is a condemnation of Trump’s political opponents.
One would think that we all have common goals when it comes to wasting goat screwing pirate terrorists interfering with global trade, securing our borders, ensuring there is not waste/fraud/abuse in a multi $trillion budget, achieving peace in the world and prosperity, security and national pride domestically.
But no. Too many people are just twisted on partisan nonsense and taking pot shots at each other. And they say Trump is immature. Seems like a national affliction (like obesity) to me. Have some pride, Marine. You’re better than this craziness.
@Eric – “A serious mistake was made by Trump admin guys. It was forced on them, …”
WTF Eric. Nobody forced that mistake on them. It was due to their own arrogance and laziness. Russian hackers infiltrated Ukrainian Signal accounts, so they can do the same to us. Trump needs to 1] fire Waltz for letting Goldberg into the chat; and 2] fire Hegseth for posting TS info on an unsecured link. Trump first made his bones with the American people by saying “You’re fired!” on a reality TV show The Apprentice. It’s time now for reality to kick in and for him to step up and say those words again.
leith,
Walz managed that how? Did he get a new phone where he personally typed in all the names and #s of the hundreds of government personnel he would be communicating with over his time in the position? Was it a phone previously used by the Biden Admin at some level with contact information already present? How would you know?
BTW Goldberg is the same guy who claimed Trump call You, TTG, and I “suckers and losers” for being volunteers. Accusation being guilt it is forever out there. Hardly a very credible guy but it has driven the news cycle longer than both assassination attempts against Trump. Which is the whole point. Trump should fire some senior executive over that, so the press can claim a scalp? he’ll do nothing of the kind. Meanwhile the 55,000 or so people on Greenland can rest easy over avoiding a bunch of $ getting spent in their country with the VP not stopping for whatever photo op that got cancelled.
Fred –
That’s Waltz with a T. And he managed it inadvertently because he had Goldberg contact info in his phone. Waltz was previously secretly providing Goldberg with insider info as a “confidential source”.
By the way, the White House has confirmed the Signal Chat account that Goldberg posted.
PS – It was Trump’s Chief of Staff, John Kelly, who said Trump called Americans KIA “suckers and losers”.
Leith,
I thank my fellow non sucker and loser (since we weren’t kia) for pointing out the error in the sucker and loser quote source, and the typo.
Did WalTz, variously capitalized, get a new phone and add all the contacts in himself? Perhaps someone “at his known location” (Secret/classified/sensitive info group chat nothing burger reference) did all that?
It is hard to take people seriously when they deny the obvious, nor should you refrain from pointing it out. If you compare this to the outrage over Clinton’s server, the double standard is alarming. As is having that crowd even in on the discussions in that manner. But it will not go away anytime soon.
Lars,
it sure is as this was one group chat, and Clintons insecure server was in operation for years and then destroyed to keep her out of jail. Glad you are aware of that.
I just came to see the contortions that Trumpistas would go through to say that this was not lazy incompetence. Thanks, Trumpistas. You’re great, don’t ever change.
rick,
I voted for Trump X3 and I am saying that everyone in that chat group demonstrated lazy incompetence.
Eric –
The lazy incompetents in that chat group were all appointed by Trump. Guess he didn’t have them vetted. Or more likely he only appointed them because they were bootlickers. He is a sucker for flattery by toadies and sycophants
Leith,
And who of the pool of potential candidates do you think would get everything right 100% of the time?
In my life I have found that winning isn’t being right 100% of the time. That’s impossible. It’s about 1. being right more than being wrong and/or 2. Being right when it really counts and the stakes are high.
Critics, however, are people who never gather their wits and risk making a big play. Rather, they sit back and try to tear down those who do. Like socialism, it’s all about jealousy and attaining self-satisfaction off someone else’s back.
The incompetence of this is overshadowing another question, the why of it. According to Lloyds of London the Houthis haven’t taken a pot-shot at a ship since November.
https://www.lloydslist.com/hot-topics/red-sea-risk/map-and-list-of-attacks
I suppose this preemptive strike is due to Bibi is breaking the truce in Gaza and, now bent on annexation, there will be no more truces, so the US must attempt to render Yemen harmless.
The abilities of
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
and his ex-Nazi colleagues
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Paperclip
have been mentioned above
https://turcopolier.com/playing-fast-and-loose-with-the-nations-secrets/#comment-249354
For a musical commentary on WvB, listen to
https://youtu.be/QEJ9HrZq7Ro
But we can thank him for the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturn_V
—–
My view:
It is worthwhile to recognize ability, wherever it is found.
As an example, watch this amazing video, showing the ability of an Su-57 Felon
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-57
to do pirouettes in the air:
https://youtu.be/WIl1cufYYF0
Now that’s a good aircraft!
I had no idea an aircraft could be so maneuverable.
Then hear what some former American fighter pilots think about that:
https://youtu.be/9JUq-w_i4hk
The American commentators didn’t mince words.
They were impressed.
Some Americans denigrate the Russians.
I think that is a horrible mistake.
P.S. The pilot was 62-year-old
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Bogdan !
For the Su-27 Flanker crash about which the Americans talk,
see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sknyliv_air_show_disaster
Or watch these videos:
https://youtu.be/jIFStYX_0w0
https://youtu.be/S8W0DqZ0S5k
Keith Harbaugh,
Tom Lehrer is a national treasure.
Soviet aircraft designs are almost universally excellent. I am amazed that they fly and maneuver naturally rather than being kept in the air under control of computers. See how Ukraine is still flying them after three years of war. Their air to air missiles still outrange ours.
Their tanks and IFVs are another story. They are death traps with the ever popular turret toss. Our crews can survive serious hits to our tanks and IFVs.