Ayman Oghanna for NPR
WEST BANK – There are days when you head out to report a story, and you think you know where it’s going. And then it spins in an entirely different direction. This is the story of one such day last Tuesday in the Israeli-occupied West Bank – the other Palestinian territory.
It’s morning as our NPR team is traveling from Tel Aviv to the West Bank to see a small town called Deir Istiya, and to meet a 54-year-old farmer named Ayoub Abuhejleh. When we arrive at his home, he invites us inside and makes us Arabic coffee. Like many Palestinians in the West Bank, he tells us he hasn’t been able to access his land and harvest his olives. “I planted around 370 olive trees [and] grapes, figs, almonds,” he tells us.
It’s harvest season, and while his plants are groaning with fruit, he says he hasn’t been able to harvest a single olive. “We faced a little bit of problems before in the harvest season, but in this season it’s terrible,” he says. He explains that soldiers with the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and West Bank settlers have blocked him from his land since the war started on Oct. 7, when Hamas fighters attacked Israel.
Comment: This NPR story from 13 November is just a snapshot of what Palestinians have been enduring in Israel. The subject of the story is not an activist. He’s a farmer trying to farm his land and provide for his family. His treatment at the hands of Israeli authorities is not too severe. At least he’s not beaten or killed by Jewish settlers. But his treatment is chronic and is clearly sanctioned by the Israeli government. I think the end of this story nails the heart of the Palestine/Israel problem. Both sides claim the land as theirs. Everything else flows from that. The resentment, the hatred, the abuse and brutality all stem from familial and cultural ties to the land even if that land is just one olive grove. In my opinion, this is more central that religion. The following is the end of this NPR story. Please take the time to read the whole story.
Abuhejleh gets out of the car, smiling, and he’s rushed by his entire family – his young grandchildren run to him. He hugs and kisses them. Some are crying. We sit down with Abuhejleh to make sure he’s OK and to ask what happened after he was separated from us. He tells us that after he was led away, blindfolded and handcuffed, he was driven to a military office in a nearby settlement where he was mocked and questioned for hours. “They say it’s our land. It’s not your land. So you must forget it,” he says. Later, when we would ask the IDF why he had been detained, they would provide no comment.
Now that he’s home, he assures us he’s unharmed. And as we’re about to leave, we ask if he plans to go back to see his land, even after today’s incident. “I will go back. Don’t worry,” he says. “They will arrest, and I will return back – until I will fix my land. It’s our land.”
https://www.npr.org/2023/11/13/1211987812/israel-hamas-west-bank-gaza-war-conflict-idf
These two videos, especially the first, uncork the ugly old-time old money and colonialist-imperialist truth behind the current goings on in the middle east. Everything is tied in – from the North Stream demolition to the Beirut bombing. The joke, as usual, is on everyone other than an infinitesimal fraction of a fraction of wealthy, powerful predatorory monsters. The comedians presenting here are doing do second hand and only vaguely get the picture but nonetheless more accurately than anything you’ll see in our media.
What Israel v Gaza is Really About.
https://youtu.be/R_ojjTGJz7w
U.K. Prime Minister’s Family Raking In Billion$ From Gaza Oil
https://youtu.be/F7MHInf1syg
The U.S., by its unquestioning support of Israel, is tarred with the same brush as Israel.
Israel itself is proof that God has a sense of humor. How ironic is it that the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians exactly what was done to the bulk of their founding Jewish population – right down to sippenhaft (collective punishment of a family for the actions of a member) and the deliberate “unpersoning” – denial of Palestinians as a distinct national population /entity, not to mention the contempt for Palestinians they daily display.
The demolition of Gaza even draws parallels with the razing of the Warsaw Ghetto.
What’s worse is that Israel has expended all its international goodwill, such as it remained. I am also beginning to detect a certain coolness towards Jewish members of the community[ where that will end, I know not.
You’re right and too kind. This Reuters piece has been sequentially revised since very early this morning – it used to lead with the excerpt I’ve pasted below, which is now moved way down the page so people who are still busy with their own affairs don’t notice and reach the obvious conclusion that it’s all out expulsion and genocide. Since the jews are so proud of their intelligence maybe they’ll call it geniuside. I call it hyenacide.
———————————————————-
ISRAEL ORDERS EVACUATION OF SOUTHERN TOWNS
Elsewhere, Israel ordered civilians to leave four towns in the southern part of the Gaza Strip on Thursday, raising fears war could spread to areas where it had told people they would be safe.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israeli-troops-deepen-search-main-gaza-hospital-evidence-hamas-2023-11-15/
Leaflets dropped overnight from aircraft told civilians to leave Bani Shuhaila, Khuzaa, Abassan and Qarara on the eastern edge of Khan Younis. The towns, collectively home to more than 100,000 people in peacetime, are now also sheltering tens of thousands more who fled other areas.
——————-
https://t.me/PolitTransit/11338
Israel could present its invasion of Gaza not as a punitive act of revenge, but as a counter-terrorism operation to free millions of Palestinian civilians taken hostage by Hamas militants. However, this would require not shelling residential areas with depth charges and not saying that everyone in Gaza is to blame. As a result, the Israelis “liberated” northern Gaza the same way their current Anglo-American allies did during World War II in Dresden – they wiped it off the face of the earth.
The bombs never stopped in the south. It was never safe, it was just less dangerous than the north. More children have died in the last 5 weeks in Gaza than ALL other conflicts in the last few years combined.
I dont think the Israelis target children, I just dont think they care either way. The numbers support this. This is what happens when you have a blank check on your behaviour and no one holds you to account.
But what is happening today is a turning point for international public opinion. In European soccer talk the Israeli actions are an “own goal”. There will be a large price to pay in public support world wide. We are seeing a change in opinion and people asking questions today that ever have before. Children in the West will grow up with these images seared into their heads. These children today are tomorrows voters and law makers.
walrus,
“tarred with the same brush ” Yes we are collectively smeared with the same propaganda brush Obama & Co are expert at wielding.
“Israel has expended all its international goodwill”
I doubt it goes in the countries that matter. Has it had any effect on the US’s support with weapons etc. Has there been any threat of destroying Israel’s air force to stop the attacks? I will not believe that support is gone from Israel in the West until we see tangible actions a la Kosovo or sanctions.
Look at the internal politics of Israel. Here you see the public supporting ethinc cleasing of not only Gaza but also East Jerusalem and the West Bank. Hardcore ultra-nationalist of the worst kind are open about what should be the final solution on the Arab problem. Including Hezbollah.
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-extreme-ambitions-of-west-bank-settlers
QUESTION:
One thing that seems to be very important to many a Vet is:
The USS Liberty Incident 1967
Is this still a big deal? What is the underling implications, X-amount of Vets seem to distrust Israel deeply?
Right now, I think a whole lot of people should be weary!!!
WWIII, I guess just about all rulers are too scared. Something has gotten into MBS. There must be some threat that has pushed him?
Ms Kim –
The USS Liberty strafing and bombing was anathema to Colonel Lang who founded this blogspot. And it’s still a big deal to me. Although the many veterans in my local VFW just shrug their heads when I bring it up. Some never heard of it.
Poor farmer. He’s in the same boat as all the small business owners across the English speaking world that had to shut down and go bankrupt during the covid lockdowns.
But hey, if a perceived threat is great enough, drastic measures have to be taken, right Walrus?
Eric Newhill = Hasbara.
This has nothing to do with Covid,, this is about permanent dispossession, also known in Gentile circles as robbery.
“Perceived” threat????? From an old farmer?? What right has Israel got to do anything to the man?
But I guess the Declaration of Independence sticks in your throat and scares you, especially this bit:
“We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.”
We should have nothing to do with Israel.
Some people just cut and paste from the same tired, worn talking points they were exposed to since they were kids. Other people are able to process new information and change their viewpoints based on the facts.
This is why I generally avoid talking about the I/P issue because “true believers” on both sides will just spout the same things I have heard literally thousands of times over the years. There isnt an original thought on this subject from these types, ever.
This applies equally to all true believers, pro Israel or pro Palestinian.
Says the guy who cuts and pastes fake history from the same tired, worn, fake talking points – all the while having partaken in an invasion the South and expressing contempt for the original, now displaced, inhabitants who you wish would cease to exist.
You were all for shuttering businesses and jabbing children with experimental vaccines that don’t even prevent contagion and for a disease that didn’t even impact children because you were terrified of dying. Israel deals harshly with some Palestinians because those people like to throw bombs and murder Israelis.
You and Israel are the same. You are willing to inflict drastic measures, collectively, upon others who could wittingly or unwittingly pose a mortal threat to you when you are scared of death. It’s human nature to do so.
Does that help your comprehension of the connection?
… with experimental vaccines that don’t even prevent contagion and …
Oh dear. Let’s leave out the children. … Butpray tell since when are vaccines meant to prevent contagion? I thought they are meant to provide immunity against infections.
LeaNder,
In the lead up to the release of the Covid vaccines, they were touted as being able to prevent infection. It was a stupid claim. A lot of vaccines lessen the possibility of infection or lessen the effects of an infection without actually preventing any possible infection. Way too much early hype for the Covid vaccines.
Walrus, thank you for your thoughtful contributions, especially your willingness and ability to see different points of view
I think any attempt to identify you with Israel really ignores, or misunderstands, what you have been saying..
As to COVID, that really seems a different issue to me.
I remember you speaking of your personal prevention practices.
Did you advocate imposing those practices on others?
I do not recall that.
walrus,
The ad hominem was uncalled for. According to the NPR story that man was not interfered with in any way until after the Hamas attacks on October 7th killed 1,400+. He was detained for 5 hours, no explanation other than what was in the NPR story. Nor is their confirmation from them on who cut the roadway, how long the piping is, where it originates, or how easy it might be to repair.
The documentation of ownership, or lack thereof, of such land as this man claims belongs to his family dates at least to the Ottoman period; a time in which there were plenty of Jews and Christians in the region and no state of Palestine.
Exactly. It’s all cheap emotional manipulation, crocodile tears and virtue signaling. Plenty of Arabs have perfectly decent lives in Israel.
Anyhow, how many people in the US South owned slaves? A smaller percent than Gazan’s that want Israel destroyed, for sure. Yet the North waged war on the entire South and still does, at least culturally, to this day. That’s the way wars are fought, even by virtuous, enlightened yankees. There’s nothing unusual about what is happening in Gaza – only that armchair moralists have social media and get to wax romantic and cheer for the alleged “underdog”, corrupt as he may be.
Eric Newhill,
30% of white families in the Confederate states owned slaves. Out of over 2 million Gazans, there are 25,000 members of Hamas. I don’t know how many others want Israel destroyed. I’m sure there are far more than the 25,000.
curious how long you’ve lived in the South – so I can apply a virtue signaling filter.
Yes, TTG. 30% of Southerns owned at least one slave – and 31% of Gazans are pro-Hamas.
Presumably that Hamas support figure, from polls, is correct and perhaps conservative – and presumably that 31% represents the more violent and active among the Palestinians; or else the Palestinians would relieve themselves of the scourge of Hamas and other militant groups that, allegedly, siphon off all the money that Israel, the US, the UN, etc give the residents of Gaza and with which they could build a good life instead missiles and bombs. Wouldn’t they?
It’s about land.
Yes.
Some people living there for the past 2,000 years.
Others are colonialists.
And about terrorist.
Be careful.
“You’re a TERRORIST” shouted guys from GESTAPO torturing my father.
And I perfectly remember the long knife scars on his chest and cigarette burns on his legs.
Fighting an invader is not terrorism.
“blocked him from his land since the war started on Oct. 7, when Hamas fighters attacked Israel”
I sure hope someone in Israel reads this and helps the man out.
“Abuhejleh planted his trees in 2011, and this was the first year he was going to be able to harvest them. When he went to check on his trees Oct. 13, ….. an accusation that NPR was unable to confirm. He has not set foot on his land since.”
So for more than a decade he was NOT harassed.
“We’re just not sure if it’s Israeli military personnel or settlers.”
Did they verify it was not Hamas, or UFOs for that matter?
“They insist the area is restricted, and it’s a time of war.”
My, no rope? I wonder if there was a map somewhere or even some kind of announcement in ‘the press’?
“”We’ve never seen anything like this before,” she says. “This is not according to any protocol that we’re familiar with or are experienced with.””
So ‘this kind of thing’ has NOT been happening for years? I wonder what happened on October 7th to change things? Anyone remember?
Five hours of detention, horrible., just horrible. I believe Col. Lang had a lot more relevant stories he personally witnessed over the years that can be found in the archives.
Fred,
Just like covid panic caused some people and governments to adopt extreme measure and violate rights, Oct 7 caused Israel to adopt some security policies. And yeah, the guy wasn’t hung or harmed in any way.
In fact, I call BS on all these apocryphal stories of systemic Palestinian abuse at the hands of Jews and labeling of Israel as “colonizers” and so on and so forth. It’s all left wing propaganda. Same source as BLM BS and the rest. It sounds just like George Floyd nonsense.
How are people that began purchasing land, fair and square, some 140 years ago “colonizers” any more than all those yankee hordes living in Virginia now? Or for that matter, your neighbor who recently bought a home on the block you’ve inhabited for years?
If you physically attack that new neighbor and receive, in return, a restraining order that causes you to have to move out of your home, who’s fault is that? Then if you continue to attack that neighbor with drive by shootings – and he decides it’s time to shoot back – and you’ve got your family in the car during one of your attacks, and one of your kids gets killed, how is that the [former] new neighbor’s fault?
NPR is a woke socialist outlet. I didn’t even know that anyone with half a brain or more paid attention to it. Why doesn’t NPR do a piece on all the Arabs living law abiding, happy, well integrated, successful lives in Israel? How can Israel be involved in committing a “genocide” when Palestinians serve in the government and even the IDF?
How is it not Hamas that is committing genocide on Palestinians, assuming the lefty memes about Gazans being mere captives of Hamas rule have any truth, which I doubt ( a couple million can’t overthrow 25,000 terrorists)?
When the allies liberated France from the Nazis, French towns, especially in Normandy, got blasted to ruble and French citizens caught in the crossfire were killed. That is war, same as it is in Gaza. At least the Israelis give warning and the civilians some level of chance to get out of the way.
Can we have some real analysis and discussion of the topic as opposed to lefty anti-Israel propaganda meme throwing? Sad how many prefer cartoons. Sad how many just hate Israel and, probably, Jews generally. All of that propaganda is going to backfire. If I was a Jew, I would now be more convinced than ever that nothing has changed in the world and that I need a homeland under my control. I’d fight more fanatically than ever against any threat to Israel.
Eric Newhill,
Here’s three articles on the “systemic Palestinian abuse at the hands of Jews” as you put it. The first article is over two years old, but it describes the ongoing Israeli efforts to steal Palestinian land. Much older articles covering the same subject are readily available with a simple search. This has been going on for decades. And it is state-sponsored. It did not start with the 7 October Hamas terrorist attack. The other two links are more recent, but still pre-7 October. It has never been peaches and cream for the Palestinians living under Israeli rule.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/7/8/how-israel-backs-settlers-to-confiscate-palestinian-lands
https://observers.france24.com/en/middle-east/20230808-palestinian-territories-west-bank-israel-settler-violence-stolen-livestock
https://mondoweiss.net/2023/08/i-witnessed-firsthand-how-settlers-steal-palestinian-land/
Eric,
The late Col. Lang commented on the conduct of the IDF towards Palestinians from personal experience over the years. It continued to get worse to the point he refused to return to the country.
“…when Palestinians serve in the government and even the IDF?…”‘
Those individuals are citizens of Israel and not Palestinians. The comparison to WW2 is neither accurate nor useful.
If you want a different take on the issue here it is:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS1_cAdIQR4
“But hey, if a perceived threat is great enough, drastic measures have to be taken”.
Translate this into Arabic….it is the same thing a Hamas fighter would say to justify what they did.
Except no one is bothering a guy who becomes a Hamas fighter until the day he becomes that fighter and attacks Israel – i.e becomes a murdering violent thug.
The idiot Palestinians of Gaza could have a good life on a nice piece of land *if* they’d give up the idea that Jews can’t live in Israel – and that Jews that purchased good land there, fair and square, are “colonizers” with no right to what they purchased. The Gazans receive money from all over the world (including Israel) that could be used to build a good society. They even get free water and electricity. And no, there are no “blockades” preventing positive development and they only lost some amount of control of Gaza *after* they proved they could not behave themselves and used Gaza to launch attacks on Israel. In fact, every time the idiot Arabs have lost control or land, it has been the result of attacking Israel; fortune de Guerre, n’est pas?. What is that definition of insanity? Something about doing the same over and over and expecting a different result each time?
Eric,
John Oliver did a wonderfully entertaining and informative piece last week on the common false narratives, that everything HAMAS does is the act of “Palestinians”, and everything the Likud does is the “Israelis”. I would go on to mention a lot of people label what the US does as the act of all “Americans”.
It’s always never that simple isn’t it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ9PKQbkJv8
Frontline from 2002 on the meltdown of Oslo Accords documents how the extremists on both sides undermined the peace process with provocations and a few terrorist acts:
https://www.pbs.org/video/shattered-dreams-of-peace-the-road-to-oslo-spoc9i/
The peace mongers on both sides never had a chance.
Mark Logan,
I agree Oliver did a good job in a remarkably short time. I plan on watching that PBS Frontline piece, but that will have to wait for more time. I’m sure there’s plenty I forgot about that time. I’ll offer another short article that delves into Netanyahu’s culpability for the excesses of Hamas including the 7 October terrorist attack.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
Good life in Gaza? You have drank the Zionist propaganda beyond hope. No one with the slightest bit of neutrality could ever make such a statement.
What people like you want is for the Palestinians to just accept whatever Israel decides to give them. It isnt going to happen.
The current conflict will be the turning point for a lot of people around the world when it comes to Israel. You are stuck in the glory days of American backed Zionism, ingested with your mother’s milk. The younger generation isnt like that. Things will change whether you like it or not.
Stefan,
What did Hamas do with the aid money year after year after year? Where was the UN, IMF, WB and all the now so outraged countries around the world when all those billions were being spent the way they were?
Russian humor. Hard to resist. First you need to read the post and if you want, go to the link to see the collapsed building.
https://t.me/slvn_pomet/8505
In Astrakhan , two entrances to a five-story residential building collapsed.
No, nothing fell on the house. And no one blew it up.
The building was either washed away by sewer water or the heating system burst.
There is at least one dead pensioner.
This is in a country that is afraid that its enemies will bomb it, and therefore bombs first.
And the enemies, in fact, are very, very close.
————-
Now for the comment:
Someone nailed Putin’s portrait to the wall too enthusiastically.
——————
Another comment to the same post:
Biden – stop it!
“What have I now, said the fine old woman
What have I now, this proud old woman did say
I have four green fields, one of them’s in bondage
In stranger’s hands, that tried to take it from me
But my sons had sons, as brave as were their fathers
My fourth green field will bloom once again said she”
No answer it seems but that someone has to win . . . .
Found my answer for why Saudi is docile… all their money is the US and UK.
The following is INTERESTING !!! Lots of interesting military-strategy!
Why does the US support Israel?
Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AeAfFfTqMk&t=1s
Transcribed: https://michael-hudson.com/2023/11/israel-as-a-landed-aircraft-carrier/
For those who don’t want to follow links, in a nutshell:
After 9/11 Bush drew up plans to wipe-out 7-nations, Iran is the only country left standing. Netanyahu is the Israeli version of Zelensky in Ukraine.
US encourages Netenyahu to be more and more provocative to insight Hezbollah, the necessary trigger for US to take make WAR and go after Lebanon, Syria and Iran.
Get others to do your fighting for you: the last-Ukrainian, the last-Israeli and the last-Taiwanese.
Wow, and I thought Israel is controlling the US, nope, the US in controlling Israel.
Kim,
WOW in deed. The poor bankers of Switzerland, Hong Kong, Shanghai, and Dubai too. No Saudi money. LOL.
Tell us more.
Ms Kim –
Netanyahu is the Israeli version of Putin, or perhaps like Tojo or Hitler.
Zelensky is defending his country from an invasion. He is nothing at all like Netanyahu. A pox on you for suggesting that he is.
first, the comparison is not my idea, the similarity is that they are controlled by the US…
different war, different circumstances, the idea is that the US gets other peoples/nations to fight their wars for them.
i’m still kind of in shock after hearing Michael Hudson’s interpretation of US-military-strategy. don’t know that I agree with it, but the probability that it might be true is troublesome to me.
thus, posted it to this site out of curiosity, am i insane for considering this analysis? possibly.
Ms Kim –
Hudson needs to stick to his Marxist economics and leave strategy to the adults. The US has not used Israel as a proxy to attack Iran. We support Israel’s defense because of the huge Jewish diaspora in America that lobbies Congress, despite the letters from me to my Senators and Representative about the dastardly Israeli attack on the USS Liberty.
Neither has the US used Ukraine to attack Russia. Professor Hudson and perhaps you too have it backwards – it was Russia that attacked Ukraine, not the other way around. Russia was not somehow tricked into that invasion. Putin was not provoked into bombing and shelling Ukrainian residential areas, schools, and churches, neither was he goaded into kidnapping 2400 Ukrainian children. And earlier, back in 2014, nobody pressured those Russkie neo-Nazis to infiltrate Luhansk and Donetsk Oblasts. But then Hudson has never let facts get in the way of one of his hatchet jobs.
Ditto for Taiwan. Chiang Kai-shek died fifty years ago and with him died the Kuomintang dream of returning to the mainland. The government of Taiwan has formally acknowledged that they have no jurisdiction over China and they recognize the PRC as China’s legitimate government. They are too busy enjoying the fruits of the Taiwan Miracle. And for 15 years there have been direct flights, direct shipping, and direct mail between the two countries.
This may be a good time to review the history of land and population in Palestine.
Benny Morris’s book Righteous Victims gives a helpful summary (all the following is from that book):
at the beginning of the nineteenth century, [Palestine,] under imperial Ottoman rule—
had a population of about 275,000 to 300,000 people, of whom 90 percent were Muslim Arabs, 7,000 to 10,000 Jews, and 20,000 to 30,000 Christian Arabs.
By 1881, on the eve of the start of the Zionist Jewish influx,
Palestine’s population was 457,000—
about 400,000 of them Muslims,
13,000–20,000 Jews,
and 42,000 Christians (mostly Greek Orthodox).
In addition, there were several thousand more Jews who were permanent residents of Palestine but not Ottoman citizens.
The small pre-Zionist Jewish population of Palestine—usually referred to collectively as the Old Yishuv (literally, the “old settlement”)—was largely poor. Many if not most lived on charity from their coreligionists abroad. Both Ashkenazim (Jews of European origin) and Sephardim (Jews of Spanish, North African, and Middle Eastern extraction) were almost exclusively Orthodox and were concentrated, in separate areas, in Judaism’s four “holy” towns: Jerusalem, Hebron, Safad, and Tiberias.
Most were Ottoman subjects, extremely submissive toward the Turkish authorities and deferential toward the large Muslim communities among which they lived.
Many spent their days learning Talmud and Torah; a few were merchants and shopkeepers; more were petty craftsmen.
All in all, they were a numerically insignificant minority.
Wonderful attempts by Newhill to deflect attention. The fact remains; America is siding with an oppressive, racist country called Israel.
What is sad is that this slavish deference to Israel has cost America what’s left of its own reputation.
And look how many are literally excuse making for, justifying and siding with a bloody terrorist organization compromised of intolerant psycho Muslims of the stripe that throw gays off roof troops, rape and kill anyone not Sunni (meaning even Shia Muslims) in grotesque ways. If you manage to twist reality to the extent that you see these people as freedom fighters, you need your head examined. And yes, the every day Palestinians of Gaza are generally in league with Hamas and other extremist groups.
Eric Newhill is beyond redemption. A Zionist true and true. So no point talking sense with such people.
OTOH, I’m sad for my country US of A. We are actively helping Israel committing a genocide.
He will continue to refuse to accept any facts that do not align with his views. I get it. Like most Americans I was raised in a family where we supported Israel. I remember watching the news with my father as a child and him banging on about how “Israel was the last national of real men”. How the Arab countries should be bombed into parking lots.
But that day has come and gone. The unflinching support of Israel cant be counted on these days for anyone under 60. Look at the polls in the US on the issue from 30 years ago and from today. A drastic difference. There are now schools in the US where the children are leaving class and protesting against Israeli actions. For a whole generation the pictures of thousands of dead Palestinian children, all over social media, will be their first memories of the conflict. Eventually the dinosaurs in office will die and a new generation of leaders will rise that take American interests into account.
One of the new pieces of information on social media is Israeli spokes people trying to pass off an obvious elevator shaft that THEY put in in the 1980s as some Hamas tunnel. Israeli media ops have not kept with with the modern social media age and people are laughing at the ham fisted manner in which they are trying to influence public opinion.
There is not a single reason in the US national interest to support Israel. It is actually the exact opposite. We support Israel despite the damage it has done to us. Now these same geriatric lawmakers across the countries are passing laws making it illegal to support movements that seek to hold Israel to account. Contractors in some areas are made to sign pledges to support Israel.
Not only is it NOT in our national best interests, we are throwing away the US Constitution in an attempt to force people to support Israel. It is insane. We wont even get into the literally hundreds of billions of dollars we have given them since 1948 whist our country has went without.
Complete misrepresentation. All I’m saying is that
1. Israel has the same “right to exist” as any other nation who has the power to enforce that right.
2. All nations are on land gained from someone else, who lost, because they could enforce their right to rule. Enforce is both force of arms and force of propaganda
3. Grow up and drop the social justice BS. No one making decisions who counts believes that crap. It’s never been a relevant factor and never will be. It’s Peter Pan syndrome. Security and prosperity of nations are more important than the fate of a small group of f’ups. Sometimes you lose. Move on. Don’t like that? Grow up
4. The Palestinians are idiots for not assessing their situation rationally and taking a better path for their future and their children’s
5. I despise little smart ass pukes that moralize from afar and then declare “lets you and him fight” because chaos and associated dopamine release and opportunity to feel something in an otherwise empty life
6. War kills civilians. That fact is tragic to unspeakable depths, but it is unescapable reality. Who is responsible for the civilians’ deaths is a metaphysical question. IMO, it is the party that decided to start shooting. Righteous or otherwise.
7. Who started shooting is a matter of Today, not History. An option Today is always to not shoot and to move towards peace.
8. Personally, I don’t think the US should be involved in the MENA other than thorough intelligence. The Muslims have become backwards losers, basically didn’t progress with the western world. However, their culture is, as always, expansionist and they once spread into Spain and Eastern Europe. Given their retarded thinking, which can’t self evaluate and improve, they still dream of expanding again. So it’s good to have a military base/ally in Israel in case Islam eventually catches up enough.
9. Islam is mitigating its challenges in point 8 by propagandizing western populations as well as physically invading via lax immigration enforcement. That is evident on this and related threads
10. The pro-Hamas people here would probably be put to death if they ever actually put their ass where their mouth is and moved, with all of their habits and predilections, to the MENA to stand with the Palestinians
Spoken like the Israeli shill you are. Recycling talking points. A simple test – apply the golden rule.
Simply replace the term “palestinians” with “jews” and think of the same words being said in 1938 or thereabouts by “the master race”.
Better still put the words in the mouth of Lord Cornwallis as he battled the “terrorists” in America circa 1776.
Sounds nasty doesn’t it?
Come to think of it, Gaza suggests the Wassaw ghetto.
walrus,
You make a good and accurate point, but please lay off the “hasbara” and “Israeli shill” stuff in the comments. It will only lead to reciprocal name calling.
Yes, Gaza does suggest the Warsaw ghetto. It worse with the way Netanyahu favored and even supported Hamas rule in Gaza. He and his rightwing co-conspirators are complicit in the attack on 7 October. They should hang from the same scaffold as the Hamas terrorists.
walrus,
The Crown has been working to get ‘their’ colonies back ever since.
Yeah, sure, “recycled talking” points, like water flows down hill, the sun rises in the East, only women can give birth to babies and 2+2=4.
The left is always talking about the dawn of a new age, the end of history, etc. wherein recycled talking points (aka “facts”) no longer exist. Which is why the left always eventually unleashes hell on earth upon whoever is unfortunate enough to be ruled by them.
The golden rule (how quaint, btw) has no place in this discussion; no one – except the dead – lives by the golden rule when it comes down to existential matters.
Yes, I think that you have cut to the heart of the matter. You can have the United States Constitution or you can have Israel, but you can’t have both.
Eric Newhill has expounded his views at length on the Israel/Gaza situation.
However, there is another POV.
See
https://www.jonathan-cook.net/2023-10-11/blood-gaza-west-israel/
An excerpt:
For a passionate, anguished exposition of that POV, listen to Norman Finkelstein.
He blames the problem on Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
https://youtu.be/G12Z0td-Nqo?t=12m30s
For the blockade of which Finkelstein speaks, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blockade_of_the_Gaza_Strip
Keith,
The “blockade” was imposed by Israel *and* Egypt, ok? It’s right there in the wiki you linked to. Where is all the righteous ire toward Egypt? Furthermore, the blockade began because the moron Palestinians were firing rockets into Israel and the purpose of the blockade was to reduce the ability of the Palestinians to obtain ordnance.
The Palestinian are pathologically incapable of being responsible and acting in their own best interest and people like the readers of this forum are pathologically wont to remove all agency and responsibility from people they identify as “oppressed”. The Palestinians truly are very much like our own inner city blacks, forever tools of cynical political opportunists and stuck in a multigenerational spiral into feral ignorance – with liberals championing their cause all the way down. The worst thing that can happen to a group is to have liberals decide they need to fight for you.
I’m pretty sure that if the Palestinians elected a new peace party into power and decided to start up farms and seaside resorts and education center of excellence, that Israel and Egypt would happily assist them in getting started.
I live a long way from the US, so I’m not well-informed about its problems.
But I hear that before 1865, good white masters took very good care of their slaves in the South. Families led happy, stable lives. Work was light.
I hear they didn’t ask for more. No doubt they were no longer able to enjoy freedom, no longer able to be enterprising and autonomous, responsible we might say.
It could all be made-up hearsay. We know who benefits.
d74,
Free male Christians, aka good whites, freed the slaves. People from far away didn’t.
Fred,
And don’t forget the more than 160 regiments of USCT.
TTG,
Like the post I had on Sgt. Carney on a prior incarnation of SST? How soon we forget.
https://www.army.mil/article/181896/meet_sgt_william_carney_the_first_african_american_medal_of_honor_recipient
d74,
You can hear different narratives if you want to. See “12 Years A Slave”.
All blanket statements on the condition of the slaves are false. The nature of the institution is the power of the slave master over the slave must be absolute, so conditions varied with the nature of the slave owner, which could be anything. The plantation which was the scene of the “12 years” narrative, the Ford, can be compared with Jeff Davis’s plantation where the slaves were much, much better treated, and many stayed on after emancipation. It’s safe to say that didn’t happen at the Ford plantation.
You are deliberately avoiding listing the terms of Israel’s “generous offer” of a two state solution – which are unacceptable to ANY people with a shred of self regard.
Walrus,
“Free Mecca, for the tired, the poor, the huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
Free Mecca for the wretched refuse of the teeming shore,
Free Mecca from the clutches of the despot,
Free Mecca, birthplace of Mohammad, land of the Holy Places of Islam. End, ancient lands, your storied tyranny and gilded pomp.
Free Mecca.”
Originally posted January 29, 2017.
Any day now “Moderate Muslims” and the followers of the “religion of peace” (remember that narrative?) will be right on it.