“The region’s Moscow-installed head, Vladimir Saldo, told Russian state television that the administration was moving to the east bank of the Dnieper river, Agence France-Presse reported.
There were reports on social media that Russian intelligence service (FSB) officers and Chechen troops fighting for President Vladimir Putin‘s forces had already begun to leave the city between two and three days ago.
Kherson is the capital of the region of the same name and is on the western bank of the river, as are Ukrainian troops. It was the first major city to fall to Russian forces and its recapture would be a major gain for Ukraine.
Saldo said that up to 60,000 civilians would leave in an “organized, gradual displacement” in a move which Ukraine has called on people to ignore, the BBC reported.
Saldo said the withdrawal, including the movement of civilians from the city, was a precaution and Russian forces would continue to fight. The transfer of civilians by an occupying power from occupied territory is considered a war crime.”
Comment: The troops and FSB IN the city have begun to leave but Ukrainian capture of the Dnipro bridges around Kherson will further isolate Russian forces west of there. pl
Russia Abandons Kherson as Putin’s Army Flees Back Across Dnieper (msn.com)
Small arms gunfights, reported as very heavy, went on last night in Kherson City’s Shumenskiy Market District.
https://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=46.644693&lon=32.561288&z=14&m=w&show=/5230733/Shumenskiy&search=kherson
So was it Ukrainian Partisans? Ukrainian SOF spearheading follow-on troops? Nervous trigger happy Russian units firing at each other? Or perhaps in a perfect world Ukrainian civilians fighting off Russian looters (there are widespread reports [again] of retreating RU units again pirating Ukie washing machines and microwaves etc to bring home to Mamochka).
https://twitter.com/chriso_wiki/status/1582848335492546560?s=21
I’m curious how are the Russians executing this withdrawal? They’ve got like 25k soldiers and all the gear and apparently 60k civilians. That’s a lot of people and materials to move across a river.
Aren’t the Ukrainian military attempting to degrade the Russian military forces prior to their departure or are they being allowed to leave unmolested?
If the RM will leave their stuff b/h .. let’em go. Same for the civies. They will only b/c partisan trouble makers later ….be gone!
The Ukrainians should IMO want to trap most of the Russian forces on the right bank.
pl,
I’d also prefer the Russian forces either die or surrender on the right bank. Same for the active Quislings. If other Ukrainians prefer to live under Russian rule, let them emigrate to Russian and live as Russians.
A “McArthur at Inchon” would be req’d. To force Russians out of Kherson while leaving their weapons, and stay so close to their heels as to catch them on the right bank (western bank right) and take them prisoner is genius. You’re the student of military achievement but in my small mind this would be genius. A game “ender” in the south it would expose Crimea for winter opns. I too don’t believe Lukashenko will start anything to the north so that leaves “only” the Wagner group to make trouble there. Can the UKM handle both at once?
New subject re your hip. I’m just home from further steroid injections into my spine (lower lumbar epidurals). They mask inflamation on nerves leading to the hip and thus may postpone hip replacement. I have been keeping that wolf from the door for two years now. It’s not forever.
Bill Roche,
I think a concerted effort to destroy all ferries, barges, pontoons and rowboats is in order. This is a perfect place to use a preponderance of smart munitions. That would be my first priority. I wasn’t too worried about the Wagner Group, but Colonel Lang has convinced me that this one remaining “fire brigade” should be destroyed. There should be enough firepower in the east to do this.
Yes, the heavy stuff should concentrate on the Wagner Group while all other means concentrates on drowning the RU Army like rats in the Dnipro.
Evidently there are only 3 poets left in kherson,which is a pity really.
Poets……Photographers with Words..and Rhyme .Prose..
My Own…
“Pathways..Now Abandon The Basements and Bunkers
Caves…or Caverns…Now Dark..Chambers..Water Pools
To Explore..in Wonder…At The Sight..Of Human Conflict
Where There Signs…Prints..Pieces…Scattered…Touched
Littered….With The Tools…Of Human Progress..Or Not
All That Ever Bears Witness.. to Fates Battlefields..
JT
Oh..Which Mind Will Bear Barbaric Inhumanity
Those Hapless Spirits…Who Creat ..Insanity…
In The Chaos…Of Thier Own Demonic Vanity..
So That Many.. Suffer From Thier Profanity..
JT
I’m liking the second stanza, i.e. the last four lines. Or maybe it was just the shift in tone from the first six, which was hard to understand for an old great-grandfather like me?
Got to wonder how the great poet Anna Akhmatova would write if she were alive today. From Odesa, she was a descendant of Ukrainian Cossacks, Crimean Tatars, and renegade anti-Moscow Russians who fled south over 600 years ago. A new Requiem perhaps, this time for Putin’s terror instead of Stalin’s.
Leith…Thank You..Yes..The First Stanza is Complicated
As A Timeline..Of Mans History..And How it has been Recorded in Various Ways..By Humans..
For Example..The Cave Drawings..of Lascaux,France..
About 15,000 Years Old….The Tools of wood and Stone
That enabled Humans to Survive..and Adapt..Or Not..
Homo Sapiens..Merging..Hunters.. Gathers..Migrants.
To Many Other Examples in Caves..Used by Militarys in History..For Example..The Caves of Mindanao..The Phillipines..Of The Malay Archipelago..Used by The Japanese in WW2….and the Japanese Rifle I Was Given
By An American Army Major..along with the Moro Push Dagger Of Persia make..A Gift From His Moro Guide..
And Now..To Ukraine..The Bombed out Homes..and Basements..The Steel Factory..The Last Stand..?? Or
The Planet of the Apes..and Omega Man..??
Yes..Thank You..I have finished Reading about My Fellow Poetess..Anna Akhmatova..And Many of her Poems..And Her Tragic Life..Her Husbands..And Sons Deaths…Her Own..of a Broken Heart..Hating Flowers..
Yes..These are Times For a New Requiem..And A Mass.
JT
Saw a 8 minute interview with General Surovikin
Aka Armageddon at the Saker blog. Channeling
Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now. Completely
Emotionless. Scary if reality meets reputation.
Steve G,
If he wants to portray himself as another Billy Bad Ass, go for it. Sounds like more maskirovka to me. I doubt he’s any more competent at waging war than any of his predecessors.
You’re projecting. Watch the video.
He did not come across like that at all.
More reluctant than threatening.
“Our Ukrainian brothers”. The enemy
Is NATO.
“Our Ukranian brothers” ???
lol!
I don’t believe the Ukranian’s consider the Putinistas brothers but invaders.
blue peacock,
You may want to do a bit of research on the history of Ukraine, in particular since 2014.
The population is widely divided between Russian-speaking people who are mostly in the West and South (a lot of these people actually have a Russian passport, and/or family there etc.), and Ukrainian-speaking people who are mostly in the North and West. With of course most areas mixed to some extent.
Following the 2014 coup that replaced the pro-Russia gov’t by the current pro-Western one, Russian-speaking people were subject to various abuses by the new gov’t (starting with banning Russian as official language, then brutally repressing the protests that followed etc.), hence the creation of the Donbass republics and the civil war that has been ongoing since then. These people definitely see the Russians as brothers/liberators, and voted massively to join Russia during the recent referendums.
It is worth also noting that Ukraine and the Donbass republics signed the Minsk agreements in 2014/15 that were supposed to resolve the war by granting some level of autonomy to Russian-speaking regions, but Ukraine never implemented them i.e. never started discussing with the Donbass people and instead kept on shelling them to some extent, and preparing some plans to reconquer these regions.
Now of course you may want to believe that these referendums were staged, that ~100% of Ukrainian people are supporting their government and fighting Russian, that Russia decided to attack Ukraine for no reason or maybe just to rebuild the USSR etc. – but that’s not the truth.
“….but that’s not the truth.”
Marc, What you wrote is a version of events. I’m sure you believe your version is the truth. Yours starts in 2014. Others start even earlier and have a another version. And they believe that is the truth.
No doubt there are inter-Slavic disputes between the native Russian speakers & the Ukrainian speakers. Maybe the resolution is the Russian speakers who want to align with Russia should leave Ukraine and move to Russia along with the Russian soldiers who have invaded Ukraine.
Blue peacock,
My point was that there are some Ukrainians that genuinely see Russians as brothers/liberators. Many other Ukrainians see it differently for many reasons, I get that. I feel sorry for all of them (and for us in Europe)
Marc,
“..there are some Ukrainians that genuinely see Russians as brothers/liberators.”
These folks and the Russian military should return to Russia. That should be the end of the war. But…will Putin’s ego allow this?
Marc –
You may want to reread the history of the Minsk Accords and how they were implemented. And do some research to get the real version and not just the propaganda version from Putin. It was mainly the LPR, DPR, and Moscow that kept both Minsk I and II from being fully implemented.
Minsk II gave Ukraine control over its borders with Russia; but it never happened due to LPR/DPR/Kremlin intransigence. Minsk also demanded all foreign armed groups be removed from Ukraine; but the Russians stayed. Holding free and fair elections in the Donbas; never happened. Monitoring the ceasefire by OSCE; seems they were denied key observation posts within the LPR & DPR. Putin wasn’t about to let any of the Accords happen unless they gave his puppets an edge.
Keith,
Yes, i am genuinely interested about how the Minsk 1/2 agreements were not implemented. Why do you blame it on Russia and DPR/LPR? Honest question.
Well, I blame it on neocon and Borg run FP, but here we are …
Steve+G
I went to look at this General Surovikin piece, which has obviously alarmed you. However, I didn’t get the sense that this man is such a powerful force. To me, he looked constipated – like too many cheeseburgers. He may in fact be the face of the war crimes being committed by the Russians in Ukraine, but he isn’t much else.
If Russian forces are helping Russia-friendly Khersonians flee across the river, that would be good. If Russian forces are mass-kidnapping Russia-hostile and/or Russia-neutral Khersonians and dragging them across the river, that would be bad.
https://twitter.com/juliadavisnews/status/1582926857749467137?s=21
I wonder if a scorched earth strategy of destroying Ukrainian civilian infrastructure will change the trajectory of this war?
If the Russian forces in Kherson retreat without much losses in men & material they could reconstitute with the newly mobilized men and make another go in another theater or even back in Kherson although that could be more challenging with the bridges not in good shape. I suppose that works both ways. The Ukrainian army can’t easily get to the east of the river.
Sam,
People like Gurulyov and Dolgov are worse than the head chopping jihadis. The Skabeevas of Russian media are no better. They’re all a bunch of shit talking cowards. At least a lot of the jihadis were willing to die for their cause.
I’m with the Estonian Foreign Minister on this. He was asked by DW if he wanted to see Putin go to jail. His response, “to hell.”
https://twitter.com/dw_politics/status/1582654058719981568?cxt=HHwWgMCtxeXe2_YrAAAA
This is madness. Putin is not going anywhere, and if he was, he’d be replaced by harder people. Do you wish for nuclear war?
Bullshit! Another gutless wonder heard from.
Why bullshit? Nobody sane in US or Russia would go nuclear unless confronted to a 1st strike, but the risk of an unwanted exchange is rising every day. Is this bullshit?
Yes, because the Russians have been told the consequences which are likely to be NO MORE RUSSIA.
Marc
The only ones threatening nuclear war are Putin and Russia, repeatedly. Russia is the country that invaded a sovereign nation trying to assert and maintain its independence since last century. The Russian invasion is illegal. The Russian sham annexations are illegal. Russia is now committing war crimes by attacking civilian centers, since it is losing the war it started. If this war slips beyond the current conflict in Ukraine, Putin and Russia will be guilty of it.
And, many people in Russia now believe they can win in a nuclear war against the US (it is not my opinion, but it is a fact)
Marc,
So by your reasoning, many people in Russia are insane.
Yes
Many people in the US and Europe too. This is scary.
Cobo thank you. Sometimes, I feel like like a lonesome chile, far far from home. Other times like a lonely cannon barking in the woods. But facts still count. Russia invaded Ukraine. Ukraine d/n invade Russia. Russia is big. Ukraine is little. Little Ukraine has been fighting big Russia for 100 years for their independence. Count them. Ukraine fought before WW I, it fought the commies b/f WW II, and again after WW II. It declared its independence in ’91 b/f the NeoCons took over the DOS, and it continues to fight Russian oppression. Russia never wished to be Ukrainian’s friends but always their masters. There is simply no excuse for Russian belligerence. Oh, I forgot, Russian secty concerns. Shall we unearth Napoleon again, after 200 years. Or shall we ask about the Germans invasion of ’41 and neglect the Russian invasion of Germany in ’15?? What about the secty concerns of the Poles, invaded by Russia, Finns, invaded by Russia, Stones, Lits, and Lats, viciously dominated by Russia. Czechs and Slovaks invaded by Russia, Hungarians invaded by Russia, and now their little Russian friends, Ukrainians, invaded by Russia. Those who try to understand the Russian “problem” have succumbed to the Stockholm Syndrome. I have not. The Russian ruling class have always been and remain bullies. How much history does one need to understand this.
Bill
How about this little story:
Once upon a time there was a country called Serbia.
It fought valiantly over centuries for its own independence.
At one point however a separatist movement appeared within its borders. The movement eventually became an armed rebellion.
Serbia bravely fought the armed rebellion but the separatist had powerfull friends.
Those friends (lets call them the big bad wolf) came and bombed the cr*p out of the brave Serbians (the civilian infrastructure included).
Although the Serbs resisted bravely for months, when faced with the prospect of inv… ground intervention, they relented.
The big bad wolf choped of that part of Serbia and granted the separatists “indepdendence”.
That is the story being told in one part of the world.
In another part of the world, the big bad wolf is actually an agent of freedom and justice, the armed rebels are in fact the oppressed freedom fighters and the Serbs are the evil, genocidal oppressors.