The fate of Jerusalem is not a Manhattan real estate deal

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"… we have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table.  We pay the Palestinians HUNDRED OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS a year and get no appreciation or respect. They don't even want to negotiate a long overdue peace treaty with Israel," Trump tweeted. "We have taken Jerusalem, the toughest part of the negotiation, off the table, but Israel, for that, would have had to pay more. But with the Palestinians no longer willing to talk peace, why should we make any of these massive future payments to them?" CNN
 
"We are not taking a position on any of the final status issues including the final boundaries of the Israeli sovereignty in Jerusalem," Trump said last month as he made his Jerusalem announcement. "Those questions are up to the parties involved. The United States remains deeply committed to helping facilitate a peace agreement that is acceptable to both sides."
Trump's statement at the announcement was intended to reassure Palestinians and the broader Arab and Muslim world that the US was not giving away control of Jerusalem to Israel or forsaking Palestinian claims to the holy city."  CNN
 
—————
 
DJT's statements concerning the effect of his recognition of the Holy City as Israel's capital are nonsensical.   The Israelis, the Palestinians, the Europeans and every Muslim in the world understand that by taking Jerusalem "off the table" DJT has effectively eliminated the possibility of a negotiation over the city that would in any way relate to the real world.
 
Evidently DJT thinks that an issue like this that concerns the essential identity and self image of millions and millions of Muslims can be handled as though the adversaries in this dispute are business people in a contract discussion.  In that setting a feature of the proposed contract that cannot be agreed on is removed from consideration so that closure can occur on the rest.
 
Well, pilgrims,  the ownership of Jerusalem is not a hotel or skyscraper deal.  Trump's evident belief that the US has hired the Palestinian people through USAID projects and budget support is altogether incorrect.  His belief that the Palestinians are effectively his employees and therefore must settle for a Bantustan created out of some part of what is left without Jerusalem is delusional.
 
The Israelis and other Zionists, like Kushner and Ivanka, have long held the Palestinians in contempt as inferior beings fit only to be cheap labor in the Israeli economy.  That they could have sold that idea to Trump is the measure of the man.  pl

http://www.cnn.com/2018/01/02/politics/trump-palestinian-aid/index.html

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48 Responses to The fate of Jerusalem is not a Manhattan real estate deal

  1. TV says:

    How many years has the moving of the American embassy to Jerusalem been “on the table?”
    How much has this so-called bargaining chip gained?
    Enough is enough.
    If the other guys refuse to deal, then do what you want to do.
    if that means throwing a grenade, well……..

  2. turcopolier says:

    TV
    You don’t understand. No “deal” was ever possible. there will be no “deal,” ever. pl

  3. Brian Weston says:

    I agree with the ‘no deal’ scenario .As you say this is their ‘Raison d’etre’ . There can be no solution, no deal.
    We just await the eventual conflict.

  4. TV says:

    Col:
    I DO understand that no deal was ever possible, which is why I said what I said.
    Israel has no motivation for a deal and the Palestinians terms are non-negotiable.
    Happy New Year, BTW.

  5. turcopolier says:

    TV et al
    Furthermore, the only possibility for something resembling peace between the Zionist Jews and the Palestinians was a renewable truce (hudna). the issue between the sides is irreducible. The issue is ownership of the Holy Land by whatever political name you want to call it. Jerusalem is at th heart of that dispute and will always be that. Trump is a fool to have thought otherwise. Trump has killed the possibility of long term co-existence. pl

  6. Babak Makkinejad says:

    The war has been going on for 70 years.

  7. ambrit says:

    Sir;
    Throwing in my own hand grenade here. Will there ever be a situation, in your opinion, where Jerusalem could become a U.N. Mandated Open City? Full and equal access for all, policed by an international force, with timed rotations of troops, or para military police, to preclude charges of favouritism?
    Can the U.N. become robust enough to carry out such a mission? I know that the Zionists are an existential stumbling block, but, will they be able to compromise? Is the Theocratic party in Israel in control for perpetuity?
    I know this is a far stretch, but, feasible?
    Thank you for your experienced analysis in advance.
    ambrit

  8. DC says:

    This is why the capable surrounding states wish for nuclear weapons capability so badly. Once Israel is no longer clearly superior with respect to nukes, all bets are off. For the sake of us all, I hope they come to their senses, before the battle lines are official.

  9. turcopolier says:

    ambrit
    That would be the only sane solution but it will never occur. The Zionists will never accept it and we Americans have made them so strong that they can defy everyone. pl

  10. Clonal Antibody says:

    When taking a view on DJT’s various actions, keep this article in mind –Donald Trump Didn’t Want to Be President

    As the campaign came to an end, Trump himself was sanguine. His ultimate goal, after all, had never been to win. “I can be the most famous man in the world,” he had told his aide Sam Nunberg at the outset of the race. His longtime friend Roger Ailes, the former head of Fox News, liked to say that if you want a career in television, first run for president. Now Trump, encouraged by Ailes, was floating rumors about a Trump network. It was a great future. He would come out of this campaign, Trump assured Ailes, with a far more powerful brand and untold opportunities.
    “This is bigger than I ever dreamed of,” he told Ailes a week before the election. “I don’t think about losing, because it isn’t losing. We’ve totally won.”
    From the start, the leitmotif for Trump about his own campaign was how crappy it was, and how everybody involved in it was a loser. In August, when he was trailing Hillary Clinton by more than 12 points, he couldn’t conjure even a far-fetched scenario for achieving an electoral victory. He was baffled when the right-wing billionaire Robert Mercer, a Ted Cruz backer whom Trump barely knew, offered Trump’s campaign an infusion of $5 million. Trump didn’t turn down the help—he just expressed vast incomprehension about why anyone would want to do that.

    DJT is unfit to be the President – but so unfortunately was HRC

  11. David E. Solomon says:

    Colonel Lang,
    I am sorry, but the man is not very intelligent. I think if you were able to look into the sources of his wealthy the laundry would be very dirty.
    Regards,
    David

  12. turcopolier says:

    David E Solomon
    Are you able to look into the sources of his wealth or are you just running your mouth out of animosity to him. If you do not have specifics you should shut up. pl

  13. different clue says:

    Clonal Antibody,
    I knew my vote for Trump was dangerous when I cast it. But I didn’t imagine it would be so very dangerous on so very many levels.
    But it had to be done. As you say, what was the alternative? Clinton? I think not. Between the Greater Evil and the Greater Awful, I still don’t regret having chosen the Greater Awful.
    But having defeated Clinton is not enough to make all the pain of all this Trumpoonery worth it. The only thing that will make all this pain and all the pain to come “worth it”, is if we can totally defeat and destroy and expel the Jonestown Clintards and the Jonestown Obamatards from out of the Democratic Party.

  14. Laura says:

    Clonal Antibody (great handle by the way) — Isn’t it possible to “compare and contrast” the levels of unfitness? Can you really just label both “unfit” without reference to the situation under discussion? That seems way too easy and unengaged in the realities of what is happening (or might have happened).

  15. David E. Solomon says:

    Try this link:
    http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/31/politics/trump-mob-mafia/index.html
    You will find many others.
    No real way of telling for certain. But like my feelings about Hillary and Bill, I feel the odds are good that they all have unsavory ties. Hillary and Bill’s probably run to banking not mob connections, but, personally, I think the bankers are as reprehensible as the mobsters.
    I don’t believe that Trump is likely to care anymore about the direction of the country or for the the man in the street than Bill and Hillary care.

  16. Jony Kanuck says:

    Col,
    From reading Elijah Magnier & other sources, one possible future that emerges is Hizbollah, SAA & Iran loyal Iraqi militia ‘liberating’ the Golan Heights. My guess would be that Israel could stop them but at a painful cost in body bags. There would be a rush for the exits in Israel though; a lot of Israelis have second passports. Then we’re left with a country of mostly religious fanatics with thermonuclear weapons. Sigh

  17. SmoothieX12 says:

    Once Israel is no longer clearly superior with respect to nukes, all bets are off.
    No, they are not. Especially once one considers Israel’s Samson Option. Israelis, though, are terrified of a competent Arab conventional military. In general, the issue can not be described in black and white (all bets are “off” or are still “on”) terms. Trump, however, in his haste, effectively removed the US from any negotiating table (or platform) as a mediator.
    For the sake of us all, I hope they come to their senses, before the battle lines are official.
    Escalation to a nuclear threshold, now that Russia is in Syria, becomes a very tricky but also a remote possibility.

  18. Colonel – It’s not long back that the organisation “Commanders for Israel’s Security” were visualising a different plan for Jerusalem. Not as sensible as “Ambrit’s” solution above but it at least indicated a readiness to negotiate –
    https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.723060
    The full plan is set out here:-
    http://en.cis.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/snpl_plan_eng.pdf
    I believe the reason we do not hear of this CIS plan any more may be because it is now clear that any agreement now made would have to be more far reaching. Right of Return, some degree of compensation, Jerusalem to be an international city – this sounds fantasy now but is, I believe, the only chance for the long term survival of a Jewish community in Palestine. It’s a South African style solution or none now, and although it’s true that the solution failed in South Africa, at least for most Afrikaners, an internationally guaranteed and monitored solution along those lines is now the only one possible.
    The cheapest too, both in lives and money, for if some such solution is not arrived at it’s goodbye Israel, not for us, I’d imagine, but for our and their grandchildren. Am I wrong in still seeing this CIS plan as indicating, for the more sober Israeli IDF and security personnel at least, that holding to the present hard line is simply not viable?

  19. Fellow Traveler says:

    Jerusalem may not be a skyscraper deal but Jared’s half-billion note due next year on 666 Fifth Avenue is.
    Let’s see who steps up and rescues him this year.

  20. robt willmann says:

    A man said to be one of Donald Trump’s close friends for many years is Thomas Barrack, Jr., of Syrian and Lebanese descent. He went to college and law school in the U.S., and has been with the Republican Party from the Nixon years. Early on he spent some time in Saudi Arabia, which was a benefit to him business-wise. He of course stays in the background, as do most people who have quite a bit of money. His connection with Saudi Arabia may have been an influence on Trump, but no one seems to have gone into that issue, nor have I found anything about Mr. Barrack’s thoughts about Jerusalem–
    http://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/money-and-power/g13034515/thomas-barrack-jr-facts/
    http://www.latimes.com/politics/la-na-pol-trump-barrack-inauguration-20170109-story.html
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/hes-better-than-this-says-thomas-barrack-trumps-loyal-whisperer/2017/10/10/067fc776-a215-11e7-8cfe-d5b912fabc99_story.html

  21. Babak Makkinejad says:

    One must recall US Congress’s role in this – they set the ball in motion in 1998.

  22. eakens says:

    I also agree that the biggest risk to Israel is a conventional force which (a) does not have a nuclear weapon; and (b) can fight them on their turf, too close to where they can use their nuclear weapons.
    On a side note, I was reviewing the latest tax reform and found an interesting tidbit in the Tax Act, specifically:
    The Act grants combat zone tax benefits to the Sinai Peninsula of Egypt, if (as of the date of enactment) any member of the Armed Forces is entitled to special pay for services performed there under 37 U.S.C. §310 (which relates to special pay for duty subject to hostile fire or imminent danger).

  23. Barbara Ann says:

    James
    Have you tried to raise issues like BDS on a Zionist forum recently? You will swiftly be disavowed of the notion that you are simply an anti-Zionist. Not sure there’s a word for it, but equating the 2 has long been a key plank of Zionist strategy to turn all opposition into hate crime. What they fail to see is that if the keep it up, it may just one day turn out to be true.

  24. Barbara Ann says:

    Taking Jerusalem “off the table” certainly appears to be a quintessential demonstration of this anti-Solomon’s profound lack of wisdom – surely he should have ordered it cut in half (along with the 2 mothers’ shared house, in this case). Yet profoundly unwise at it seems, given DJT is clearly a one state solutioner (the act surely ends all chance of a 2 state solution) it strikes me as not an illogical move. If one really believes that for peace to come at all, it can only come from the Palestinians and Jews sharing a single state (presently called Israel) it is perfectly sensible to dispel the notion that a city of such enormous importance to both parties be anything other than its capital. Whether such a belief equates to fairies at the bottom of the garden is a different matter.
    A peaceful single state solution will only work if the Zionists are ultimately forced to recognize that their state must accommodate Jewish/non-Jewish citizens on at least a broadly equitable basis – i.e. equally enfranchised. Clearly not of the real world today. But the one state solution view considers this no less real world than the chance of finding a viable accord with a permanently besieged Palestinian micro state, peppered with Jewish settlements, somehow happily sharing Jerusalem with Israel. I have to confess some sympathy for this assessment of the relative likelihoods of success.
    But we are now in the (nearly) post Syrian War era. At last we have a strong sign that parts of the ME and wider Asian powers will no longer tolerate Israel and it’s big brother laying waste to the region forever, for the sake of Jewish ‘security’. The direction of travel is clear, it’s going to get ever more costly (diplomatically, economically and militarily) for the US to secure it’s outpost of monotheistic democracy in the Holy Land. Eventually Israel’s tantrums will not yield the desired response – then will be time to negotiate.

  25. shepherd says:

    As for his intelligence, we all have a tendency to ascribe to those we don’t like all manner of failings. I had a brief consultancy gig with one of the biggest New York real estate developers. I didn’t learn much except that it’s one of the most complicated businesses around. If Trump was even only mildly successful at it, he would have to have been intelligent. He did become president, after all. Smart people make dumb mistakes, of course. That’s a different thing.

  26. All I can say is: good. This will finally kill off the ludicrous idea that the US is somehow a neutral and fair broker of peace in the ME. Our reputation will be undermined all throughout the Arab world–if the whole world. This hastens our departure from the ME (where we never should have been in the first place), and by extension, the entire Eastern Hemisphere. As an old-line, vintage 1930s isolationist, I completely welcome that.

  27. jpb says:

    Faust
    “‘Say at last- who art thou?’
    ‘That Power I serve
    Which wills forever evil
    Yet does forever good.’”
    Johann Wolfgang von Goethe’

  28. D says:

    “DJT’s statements concerning the effect of his recognition of the Holy City as Israel’s capital are nonsensical.”
    Everything Trump says is nonsensical because he doesn’t possess the knowledge, temperament or mental faculties necessary for the job.

  29. NancyK says:

    I think in time you may come to regret your choice, but of course by then it is too late.

  30. optimax says:

    I don’t think Tromp is low IQ. It’s just that he is of ignorant history, foreign policy, basically any subject outside of real estate. He’s also a spoiled brat use to getting his own way. Murdoch called Truomp an idiot in the second article down:
    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/367183-trump-iranian-protesters-will-receive-great-support-from-the-us-at
    Israel has never asked for US approval to assassinate anyone they wanted to eliminate. Israel wants Iran to know the US blowhard president will back Israel in any aggression toward Iran.

  31. ISL says:

    Dear Colonel,
    Funny – DJT apparently doesn’t mind the lack of respect and appreciation for the billions we pay Israel, either.
    Actually, not sure after Iraq anyone in the middle east appreciates and respects (fears, yes!) the US anymore. Hard to identify something we did in the last couple of decades that anyone would appreciate. I suppose the Iran deal was a start…. The Saudi royals could appreciate our refueling their bombers, but they clearly view the US as bought.
    While the US empire has lasted 75 years and Israel has masterfully manipulated its protection under the US umbrella, nothing lasts forever and as the petro-age comes to a close – exactly which other great power is going to give a fig’s leaf for Israeli statehood or survival?
    Well, the bible is filled with stories of the Isrealites following the short term game (e.g., that whole Egypt sojourn thing) and not thinking long-term strategery. Worth noting that the stories do not end well – they often allude to massive payments in blood.

  32. confusedponderer says:

    james,
    re: “trump is delusional – yes.. viewing world issues like some sort of business deal, while getting input from your daughter and son in law who are now especially talented for giving bad advice. oh well
    Likely Trump is often either uninformed or uninterested or bad advised. Then there is the question whether he listens to or understands advice he doesn’t like.
    Recently I read that senior white house advisors have said that they fear they couldn’t control or steer the man when he goes ‘full Trump‘. I can’t make my choice which is worse where.
    I recall reading that during the first phone call with Trump Merkel found herself compelled to explain to him where that Ukraine thing is as a country and why it was also interesting for Europe and Russia.
    Trump didn’t know, and likely he does’t care, since he is now allowing US companies delivering arms to Ukraine, as if Ukraine’s problem was lack of weapons.
    Or that story about when he was asked about the US “nuclear triade” and which part of it was the most important. Trump he didn’t understand what was meant and answered that all that counted to him was that nukes are veeeery destructive.
    All that is bad enough, and then there are these childish things like Trump telling the world that his “US red button” is bigger than Kim’s, and works. Will he be bragging about dick length next?
    Or when Trump sent a mighty US armada, with aircraft carriers (one of which costs about as much as about NoKo’s entire military budget) to NoKo “to show force”. It became embarassing when news reported that in fact that fleet was sailing the opposite direction, to Australia and away from NoKo. What a … mighty show of force!
    That written, Trump has the power of his office, so that he doesn’t need a neo-con’s, Haley’s or Kushner’s ill advise to be dangerous. He just being himself may be enough.

  33. johnf says:

    Slightly o/T but concerning the possible role of GCHQ in spying on Trump, this spat is worth investigating:
    “Claim Trump aide warned of UK spying absurd, says Tony Blair.
    ccording to Mr Wolff’s account, in Fire and Fury: Inside the Trump White House, Mr Blair shared the rumour that, during the election, British intelligence “had had the Trump campaign staff under surveillance, monitoring its telephone calls and other communications”.
    The former PM is reported to have given the impression that Barack Obama’s administration had hinted that such surveillance would be helpful.”
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42561680
    The story is at the top of the BBC’s website.

  34. Balint Somkuti, PhD says:

    What Pres Trump seems to intentially or otherwise forget that all the money spent on palestinians, and egyptians etc. is not a sum from his pocket for all those “local native chieftains” needed for his n+1 real estate deal, not something to make the process of building run more smoothly.
    That money is a sort of accustomary tribute. And even a slight hint (not to mention a direct threat of revoking it) makes the other party to lose face in the eyes of the local population. Y’all know the consequences.
    For my part I think it was intentional to handle it this way. Probably all involved parties will budge slowly and grudgingly. And at the same time immediately start looking for a new master. Clandestinely of course.

  35. turcopolier says:

    eakens
    Air defense over the battle space would have to be very good. pl

  36. paul says:

    “Is the Theocratic party in Israel in control for perpetuity?”
    the theocratic party has never been in control, for most of israel’s history is was the (left) Labor Party, and more recently the (right) likud/kadima
    the theocratic parties have far less support, but it is growing, when i was living in israel(1999-2003) i deeply involved with some of the groups that became the foundation for the new “religious zionism”
    in a few more years/a decade or two the theocrats will be in firm control, but they are not yet, nor have they ever been

  37. ex-PFC Chuck says:

    From Uri Avnery a few days ago, Irgun member at sixteen, twice wounded veteran of the 1948 war, peace and reconciliation activist for the past three quarters of a century and still writing wisely and cogently at age 94:

    In the early days of the state there was a joke making the rounds. God summoned David Ben-Gurion and told him: you have done great things for my people, make a wish and I shall grant it.
    Ben-Gurion answered: I wish that Israel will be a Jewish state, that it will encompass all the country between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River and that it be a just state.
    “That is too much even for me,” God said. “But I will grant you two of your three wishes.”
    Since then we have the choice between a Jewish and just state in part of the country, or a Jewish state in all the country that will not be just, or a greater and just state, that will not be Jewish.
    Ben-Gurion must be weeping in his grave.

    https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/01/the-man-who-jumped/
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uri_Avnery

  38. blue peacock says:

    If as Col. Lang posits that “No “deal” was ever possible. there will be no “deal,” ever.”; then in that context Trump’s decision on Jerusalem may have a silver lining.
    One, it firmly takes the US out of any credible mediating role as the others can no longer pretend that the US is not a partisan in the conflict.
    Second, it pulls the mask off the Vichy Arabs, who have pretended to support the Palestinian cause only to collaborate with the zionists.
    Third, the fantasy of a 2 state solution now goes away and the duplicitous Europeans with their big rhetoric about human rights are shown for the utter hypocrites they really are.
    Fourth, Trump can now back off saying to the zionists and the neocons he’s delivered for them.

  39. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Arabs lost the Al Quds to Israelis on the field of battle.
    They should have the decency to organize and go to war again and again and again until they can recover their loss.
    As it is today, they want foreigners – specifically the Christendom, to bail them out of the consequences of their own actions – or, in fact – inactions.
    Yes, Trump has made things slightly worse by removing the possibility of Hudna – but you can thank US Congress and the US Electorate for creating the instrumentality of it.

  40. Jonathan House says:

    ex-PFC Chuck,
    Thanks for posting the link. FWIW, I have sent this Avneri column (the whole thing) to various friends, Facebook and etc.

  41. different clue says:

    NancyK,
    (reply to comment 30)
    If we are still alive without having vaporised in the nuclear war with Russia that a President Clinton would have brought us, I won’t regret being still alive. Which means I won’t regret my choice.
    If the TPP and other Trade Treason Agreements which the Free Trade Traitor Clinton wanted to bring us remain dead, then I will have further cause to not regret my choice.
    The fact that Assad remains and will remain in power in Syria because of Trump’s break with Clinton’s “Assad must go” and Clinton’s functional support of the Global Axis of Jihad and the Cannibal Liver Eating Jihadis means that my choice has already helped produce the better outcome in Syria.
    If the Democratic Party remains infected and infested with Jonestown Clinties and Jonestown Obies, I will be bitterly disappointed. But I will not regret my choice.
    I will still know that I voted my best, and that legitimate Democrats were simply not able to purge and burn the malignant metastic Clintonoma or the Yersiniobama pestis plague infection from out of the party.

  42. SmoothieX12 says:

    Third, the fantasy of a 2 state solution now goes away and the duplicitous Europeans with their big rhetoric about human rights are shown for the utter hypocrites they really are.
    We live in the world of power-politics and geopolitical re-balancing since at least 1999, in reality even earlier. “Human rights” meme today is a sort of a tasteless joke. It was killed by atrocious abuse, the same as “democracy” and “rule of law”, among many other simulacra.

  43. blue peacock says:

    Arabs lost the Al Quds to Israelis on the field of battle.
    They should have the decency to organize and go to war again and again and again until they can recover their loss.

    How can they organize let alone actually go to war and prevail, when Islam is at war among it’s various adherents?

  44. blue peacock says:

    … if he had simply invested his initial stake into an S&P 500 index fund, and continued to re-invested the proceeds minus current living expenses, he would be richer than he is today.

    Did you? What do you think is the best performing investment class in the next 12 months?
    Hindsight is 20/20 when it comes to financial investments.

  45. Babak Makkinejad says:

    Ask Arabs.

  46. LondonBob says:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2015-09-03/should-donald-trump-have-indexed-
    Not true, such calculations are based on Trump having no cost of living, in reality he has funded a very expensive lifestyle out of his business career.
    Trump is obviously very adept at the sleight of hand, and certainly knows politics is about perception management. He seems to have overcome all the, substantial, roadblocks the establishment has put up. So I hope some of the stuff on Iran and Israel will turn out to be the same empty rhetoric. Then again maybe he is just a product of the extreme zionist environment of the NY real estate market.
    As for Bannon, he certainly had his limitations but he was a rare isolationist voice. I do prefer him to the object of his ire, Jared Kushner.

  47. I find the I word (Isolationist) a bit of a trap. The pundits will use it to paint those who want a nation that looks out for its own interests and fortress America crazies.
    I prefer Neutralist.

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